After 5 years, I created a thief and I'm learning thief and engineer right now. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

After 5 years, I created a thief and I'm learning thief and engineer right now.

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  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    I understand what your saying but to have skills like CoR hitting as hard as they do with out any real tell its both a killer of ele in it will one shot glass eles as well as it makes skills like MS look like it takes days to cast it to get the same effect. That and rev is the class the ended boon ele and the only thing anet did was to make the boon rev hit 10 targets at a perma level where ele boon only some are 10 and are far from pema. In a way rev out classes ele at every point of the game AND has a wepon swap AND has higher base hp / def AND a better wepon set AND boons that ele lacks.

    It may not make ppl delete there ele and run a rev in wvw but it out classes the ele at every point and its the ideal example of what a power creep ele looks like in gw2 (ele was the first class with all of its weekeness rev is the last class with all of its power creep).

    Though i must say most old school staff ele players did quit ele for rev if that tells you something. Relay good ele players too.

    It only tell you that the ranger class and gurdain class have make up effects for lacking boon strip there is NOTHING on ele that makes up for the lack of boon strip.

    Your post reinforced my argument, not countered it.

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:
    I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

    Has not been top for years now its been bottom and its only getting worst. Ele was topped because there was not as much boon spam back then but now there is so you need to be part of that boon spam (ele is not) or part of the counter (ele is not that too). It use to be ele has the best protection support in the game and it was never perma. Now its a joke to not have perma protection lol.

    There is more to this game than being at the top. Necromancer has spent 6 years at the bottom. So to parade around as if Elementalist is the all time worse is just silly. I get the frustration when things aren't going well. But its hard to take that concern silly when you ignore the fact that you have spent less time at the bottom than others but want to act like you have it the worst.

    It's hard to say necro has spent 6 years at the bottom. Reaper and Scourge have held very dominating positions for rather long periods of time, and are performing quite decently right now. On top? Maybe not, but I would argue that necro is also one of the easiest classes to be pretty good at, so it really shouldn't be on top.

    Every class has had some time in the limelight. The trick is making sure nothing is too far below acceptable levels.

    People autokick Necromancer when they try to join teams. I have yet to see a LFG that said "No Elementalist." If you are going to argue that it's hard to say that Necromancer has spent six years at the bottom it is equally true for Elementalist. However, I'm not here to play oppression Olympics. I brought up Necromancer to highlight how absurd it is to parade around acting like you're the worst in the game (I'm actually not going to rehash my position on Necromancer. Its a matter of "public record" and easily findable if anyone cares to see it). It's one thing to say its frustrating to lose and there needs to be work done. It's another to decry the game and make the outlandish claim that you're the worst in the game.

    It's also worth pointing out that Necromancer being easier than some has no bearing on whether or not it should be on top. That's just silly and leads to elitism.

    True, necro tends to get the most LFGs discouraging them, but it's hard to ascertain a reason without asking each person why.

    Either way... yeah, every class gets kicked in the nuts, and every class gets its time in the limelight. I can't say any one class is consistently better than the others -- the only class I know that hasn't been in the toilet, ever, is guardian.

    I can't take this seriously. We know why they get auto-kicked. The reason is blatantly obvious and acting like we have to ask each person why is being purposefully obtuse.

    Necro have never been that week in pvp enviroemtn becuse of the boon strip and then they got 2 eleit spec that added more boon strip and gave them other effects that most classes get for not having boon strip.

    So what dose ele get over other classes for all that they lack?

    Not one person has made a good point.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    I understand what your saying but to have skills like CoR hitting as hard as they do with out any real tell its both a killer of ele in it will one shot glass eles as well as it makes skills like MS look like it takes days to cast it to get the same effect. That and rev is the class the ended boon ele and the only thing anet did was to make the boon rev hit 10 targets at a perma level where ele boon only some are 10 and are far from pema. In a way rev out classes ele at every point of the game AND has a wepon swap AND has higher base hp / def AND a better wepon set AND boons that ele lacks.

    It may not make ppl delete there ele and run a rev in wvw but it out classes the ele at every point and its the ideal example of what a power creep ele looks like in gw2 (ele was the first class with all of its weekeness rev is the last class with all of its power creep).

    Though i must say most old school staff ele players did quit ele for rev if that tells you something. Relay good ele players too.

    Your post reinforced my argument, not countered it.

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:
    I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

    Has not been top for years now its been bottom and its only getting worst. Ele was topped because there was not as much boon spam back then but now there is so you need to be part of that boon spam (ele is not) or part of the counter (ele is not that too). It use to be ele has the best protection support in the game and it was never perma. Now its a joke to not have perma protection lol.

    There is more to this game than being at the top. Necromancer has spent 6 years at the bottom. So to parade around as if Elementalist is the all time worse is just silly. I get the frustration when things aren't going well. But its hard to take that concern silly when you ignore the fact that you have spent less time at the bottom than others but want to act like you have it the worst.

    It's hard to say necro has spent 6 years at the bottom. Reaper and Scourge have held very dominating positions for rather long periods of time, and are performing quite decently right now. On top? Maybe not, but I would argue that necro is also one of the easiest classes to be pretty good at, so it really shouldn't be on top.

    Every class has had some time in the limelight. The trick is making sure nothing is too far below acceptable levels.

    People autokick Necromancer when they try to join teams. I have yet to see a LFG that said "No Elementalist." If you are going to argue that it's hard to say that Necromancer has spent six years at the bottom it is equally true for Elementalist. However, I'm not here to play oppression Olympics. I brought up Necromancer to highlight how absurd it is to parade around acting like you're the worst in the game (I'm actually not going to rehash my position on Necromancer. Its a matter of "public record" and easily findable if anyone cares to see it). It's one thing to say its frustrating to lose and there needs to be work done. It's another to decry the game and make the outlandish claim that you're the worst in the game.

    It's also worth pointing out that Necromancer being easier than some has no bearing on whether or not it should be on top. That's just silly and leads to elitism.

    True, necro tends to get the most LFGs discouraging them, but it's hard to ascertain a reason without asking each person why.

    Either way... yeah, every class gets kicked in the nuts, and every class gets its time in the limelight. I can't say any one class is consistently better than the others -- the only class I know that hasn't been in the toilet, ever, is guardian.

    I can't take this seriously. We know why they get auto-kicked. The reason is blatantly obvious and acting like we have to ask each person why is being purposefully obtuse.

    You're making a lot of assumptions. I've been on teams that say "No more necros" and the reason is because we already have two. I've also been on teams that say "no more necros!" because they assume necro players are unskilled. It's not just about being the lowest on the totem pole -- there are multiple reasons people could say that, just necro gets more of it.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2018

    @Dace.8173 said:
    I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

    engineers have gone through some pretty rough times in the past I heard with scrapper and core.

    I was even advised against playing unless I want to:

    A be a healer on scrapper
    B:Want a super hard condi rotation I heard.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Syrus.2174Syrus.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    I love playing my Ele - and that's pretty much the only reason I still do.

    Mainly I stick to WvW, both roaming (Sword/Dagger) and zerg (Staff).
    Lately I decided I wanted to do some PvP, but knowing what I knew about Ele so far, I decided to draw a line and get into playing a different class. The concept of the Holosmith really interested me, though Mesmer didn't sound bad either...overall I really like sticking to as few characters as possible though...anyway, as an Ele most I would do was slowly nibble enemies to death if they weren't able to burst me down when roaming. Any real roamer though meant an uphill battle. Sure, Holosmith, especially without the experience, isn't god like either, but it gives a very different perspective on what the current meta for roaming is. It does make me even more interested in trying out a Mesmer one day though.
    What I just want to say is: as an Ele, best you can do is extreme burst and hope the enemy lies on the ground before you do, or you go sustain and hope to outlast the enemy. Is that fun? Well, I still love my Ele. It's still disappointing to know all the time, that you are on an inferior class, and most fights are just won, because the enemy understimates you.

    What I value most about Eles in WvW is the versatility. Want to go roaming? Switch to roaming gear and traits. Got a zerg around? Whip out the staff and rain down meteors.
    My problem with it all is ... Necros are just, in every way, better at it all. They are better at roaming and more useful in zergs, with sustainable damage, support and most of all survivability. I do not, in any way, understand, why Anet decided to give THEM barriers on top of all the health they have. And while I'm happy that Scourge is not as ungodly powerful as they were, seeing reapers pretty much steamroll through enemies when roaming does make me question why they are allowed to be so powerful, while Eles need to be kept as the "glass cannon" which somehow still doesn't do more damage than others. So you give up survivability for doing what others already do or you give up damage for sustain. (I mean, have you seen what a soulbeast dishes out 1v1? And they still have sustain like ugh...)
    Obviously revs are also less situational in zerg fights and seem to have a viable roaming build.

    When running with zergs positioning is key as an Ele. In other words: watch where the red circles are, where you are out of range of rangers and revs and stand there, start casting your meteor and teleport away. I always find it funny when the commander says to stick with them or to push. Try it as an Ele - talking about almost full Marauder gear here - you die in three hits, if you are lucky. Ele works very good on the defensive or in open field with lots of room to maneuver. At least until a ranger (firing across half the map) or thief catches you and your squad mates are busy not being near you. Mist form only helps you a bit - then you probably get quick-stomped or such. It's simply frustrating at times. (Despite it all, due to knowing where to stand by now, I'm usually one of the last ones standing on a wipe.)
    Though recently I got hit for more than 20'000 damage in one hit, "Gun Flame"*. What am I supposed to do against that? Sure, dodge it. But it's a one hit kill, try dodging without knowing you are being targeted, and I'm not even talking about a thief's vault! (*Compare that to the Weaver air-earth spell "Pile Driver", takes forever - 1.5 seconds - to charge aaaaand ... doesn't hit. Obstructed. Blocked. Nothing (suddenly a bubble!). Target out of range. Oh wait, it did hit? 5k damage. Target had stability of course... Why so often out of range or obstructed? Because you have to STAND STILL for 1.5 seconds to fire it and it goes in a straight line. Any bit of terrain is likely to get in the way or by the time you finish casting it as the target moved elsewhere.)
    Anyway, just increasing the Ele's health wouldn't be the most helpful either, Eles just have paper-thin to non-existent armor, so they take unhealable amounts of damage. When every hit pretty much means a five digit number drops off your miniscule health pool, you might as well just go with Berserker armor and hope to at least dish out a bit more damage before you die.
    Not to mention all the projectile hate nowadays. Bubbles, reflects and such. I only realized how much of that there is after trying to mortar for a bit with my Engi. Weaver luckily got a decent amount of spells that target the ground directly, but there are also many spells that don't. There's no "unblockable".

    But I still love playing the class. Because, while I do enjoy my Holosmith quite a bit as well, it just does not even come close to feeling as complex as my Ele.

    I don't do group PvE, no fractals in a long time, definitely no raiding, never going to do raiding. Way too toxic from what I hear.
    My experience in regards to PvE - openworld, story, and such - has mostly been: if you play Staff with focus on damage, you better kill the enemy before they get to you, otherwise you're yet again going to hug the ground.
    Especially in the story after core Staff Ele is not a fun thing to play anymore from my experience. With long cast times and more static gameplay the new enemies with their many abilities will crush your dreams of nuking them down in mere moments, not to mention some of the boss fights. Playing the content on my roaming build, with a lot of sustainability, on the other hand is really quite fun. Though often it does drag out a bit due to the low damage one of Cello's old Sword/Dagger Weaver build has.

    Now I haven't gone much beyond the core story with other classes, but for farming in PvE for example I ended up prefering my Dragonhunter.
    If I didn't have such a dislike for Necro I would probably try it and subsequently abbandon my Ele. But it does really feel like this class is inferior in every field I play in. Of course, some would call bias, and sure, it's versatile, can somewhat do what I want it to do in WvW for example. But why not play that class with two health bars instead?
    To me Ele seems like a static class in a game that's focussed on lots and lots of movement. Couple that with having barely any defenses, especially not without sacrificing the one thing that you are supposed to do, you get a very complex, not outstandingly powerful but very very squishy class. The maximum damage output is balanced to the other classes, but nothing else seems to be.

    Ah ... I could go on and on, but honestly, I feel like I'm just ranting.
    My advise to anyone who doesn't love their Ele as much as I do: play a different class. Especially if you want to win in competitive game modes.

    Or am I just this biased?
    Is the class really this inferior in competitive?
    And if so, will it ever change? Who knows...

    (Again, this is from someone who plays WvW mainly, and lately PvP, openworld, story, very very little fractals, but not raids!)

  • I sympathize with the OP. While I am sure to come back to ele, I am taking a break from ele and probably won't come back until some boosts. I've really come to like weaver but it just doesn't stand up compared to other classes. It would be one thing if extra skill brought parity but it doesn't.

  • im playing with a revenant and im having a blast. Maybe i just got bored of elementalist, but i feel that everything i do in my ele i can do it better in another profesion.

    Fall down seven times, get up eight.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I love playing ele.....but when you get 3 soulbeasts charging across the map to kill you, no amount of projectile mitigation.... oh wait https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unstoppable_Union

    nvm just play cheese and bin playing ele in WvW atm with soulbeasts being ANet's favourite roamer.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2018

    @ybintell.1984 said:
    Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

    Seems to show a lack of objectivity,

    Overall in this game Elementalist has fared pretty well. In PvE it was DPS king for a huge amount of time and stackable. In WvW it has been meta or at least a reasonable option most of the game (for large scale). And in PvP other than weaver it has done pretty well, pre-HoT ele was only really crappy for a few months before cele ele, then cele ele was one of the most broken OP things the game has ever seen (in relation to the game at that time), then with HoT there was tempest which was really strong (you might not of liked it being support/bunkery but that doesn't alter it was strong).

  • Knuckle Joe.7408Knuckle Joe.7408 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2018

    I feel your pain and probably 99% of the ele players do too. They have no problem giving thief a 1200 ranged weapon that can insta gib anyone not wearing any defensive gear but are afraid of giving ele staff skills faster cast times, faster projectiles, instant or near-instant effects and better cooldowns or making scepter something else than a gimmicky, fragile burst build. Stopped playing ele in PvP and PvE since the first Meteor Shower nerf.

    I wonder, when someone that has 30k HP and heavy armor does the same or more damage, has the same or more evasion, mobility, survivavility and utility than your 11k-20k character, is there a point in having armor classes and HP pools anymore? Just give everyone the same HP pool and armor and call it an action game instead of a RPG.

    This game has one of the worst balancing teams in the genre, the buff shatterstone meme makes it clear. They're clueless.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2018

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @ybintell.1984 said:
    Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

    Seems to show a lack of objectivity,

    Overall in this game Elementalist has fared pretty well. In PvE it was DPS king for a huge amount of time and stackable. In WvW it has been meta or at least a reasonable option most of the game (for large scale). And in PvP other than weaver it has done pretty well, pre-HoT ele was only really crappy for a few months before cele ele, then cele ele was one of the most broken OP things the game has ever seen (in relation to the game at that time), then with HoT there was tempest which was really strong (you might not of liked it being support/bunkery but that doesn't alter it was strong).

    pve is irrelevant (aside from the tuned raid content), you can play any build and its perfectly playable, that applies to any profession. WVW is a blob fest. Where balance matters is pvp, and ele has not been competitive for well over a year. Just because there was a window in the past where one or 2 builds were competitive, does not excuse the incompetent handling of ele in pvp.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    Been like this for well over a year, thats 20+ patches.

    This isn't entirely true.

    You hardly see anyone playing weavers in PvE anymore because you can get the same or higher DPS on other classes, some of which have better defences baked into the spec baseline. Other classes have a better damage profile too, there's a reason you see so many DH/FB's as they burst insanely hard, much more than ele. Then you have the fact that ele is the absolute most squishy class to play having less health and taking more damage than any other class and in addition to this other classes bring multiple things like CC, heals, cleanses etc in their meta builds. Basically there's no reason to play ele unless you actually main the class as you'll be working a lot harder to perform as well as someone else while having less utility.

    All risk, no reward except being kicked if not top DPS.

    In PvP:

    If damage is toned down to levels that aren't as egregious then weaver will become and unkillable bunker that wins all 1v1's by attrition. Did you see the latest Cellofrag video where he literally face tanks shatter after shatter, CC after CC yet remains unpunished because power mesmer has poor sustain and the burst is at a level that's not completely busted? He even has time to mess around going after churning earth memes because you don't even have to think anymore just go water, dodge, pause, 2, earth, 2, dodge and you're at full health having healed for something like 10k.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2018

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @ybintell.1984 said:
    Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

    Seems to show a lack of objectivity,

    Overall in this game Elementalist has fared pretty well. In PvE it was DPS king for a huge amount of time and stackable. In WvW it has been meta or at least a reasonable option most of the game (for large scale). And in PvP other than weaver it has done pretty well, pre-HoT ele was only really crappy for a few months before cele ele, then cele ele was one of the most broken OP things the game has ever seen (in relation to the game at that time), then with HoT there was tempest which was really strong (you might not of liked it being support/bunkery but that doesn't alter it was strong).

    pve is irrelevant ...

    Your entire reply is irrelevant, I was replying to someone bemoaning the supposed state of Ele over the entire life of the game, not just the last year or so. As for balance if you think only PvP matters that is up to you, I disagree.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    just to be clear, pve is not raids or top end fracts - that is a tiny fraction of the player base and content, its a niche. When i refer to PVE im referring to PVE throughout the whole game where You can in fact play ANY build and slaughter pve content (and have a lot of fun doing it). Those that play meter wars may have a different view, but that is the flaw of such things - it skews the perspective. Wvw is never about balance because its a zerg match, you only need to mitigate enough that 1 class become does not become so powerful it gets stacked. That leaves pvp - and pvp is obviously where balance is critical, because you are playing against real people - bad balance destroys gameplay.

    incidentally, the Op was referring explicitly to PVP - see his video.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:
    I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

    engineers have gone through some pretty rough times in the past I heard with scrapper and core.

    I was even advised against playing unless I want to:

    A be a healer on scrapper
    B:Want a super hard condi rotation I heard.

    In PvE, scrapper might as well have never existed until the med kit reworks (I kept running core engi until PoF). Now it seems ANet has no idea what to do with scrapper.

    Core engineer has had a lot of trait mismanagement. They're starting to get a better vision for core engi traits, but after the pre-HoT rework, it was an absolute mess. Most of engi's best traits were in the adept or master tier, and our grandmasters have always been pretty lackluster.

    As far as I can tell, holo's the bandaid keeping the class together.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:
    I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

    engineers have gone through some pretty rough times in the past I heard with scrapper and core.

    I was even advised against playing unless I want to:

    A be a healer on scrapper
    B:Want a super hard condi rotation I heard.

    In PvE, scrapper might as well have never existed until the med kit reworks (I kept running core engi until PoF). Now it seems ANet has no idea what to do with scrapper.

    Core engineer has had a lot of trait mismanagement. They're starting to get a better vision for core engi traits, but after the pre-HoT rework, it was an absolute mess. Most of engi's best traits were in the adept or master tier, and our grandmasters have always been pretty lackluster.

    As far as I can tell, holo's the bandaid keeping the class together.

    Without holosmith, engineer would somehow be even worse than ele. That profession is in dire need of work. The absolutely broken state of photon forge is the only thing keeping engineer afloat. I think that Anet simply has no idea how to balance complex professions, so you'd better hope that the next ele elite spec is the simplest one ever. Then it can be strong and useful.

    So how is weaver compared to the other elites? just curious

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @ybintell.1984 said:
    Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

    Seems to show a lack of objectivity,

    Overall in this game Elementalist has fared pretty well. In PvE it was DPS king for a huge amount of time and stackable. In WvW it has been meta or at least a reasonable option most of the game (for large scale). And in PvP other than weaver it has done pretty well, pre-HoT ele was only really crappy for a few months before cele ele, then cele ele was one of the most broken OP things the game has ever seen (in relation to the game at that time), then with HoT there was tempest which was really strong (you might not of liked it being support/bunkery but that doesn't alter it was strong).

    pve is irrelevant (aside from the tuned raid content), you can play any build and its perfectly playable, that applies to any profession. WVW is a blob fest. Where balance matters is pvp, and ele has not been competitive for well over a year. Just because there was a window in the past where one or 2 builds were competitive, does not excuse the incompetent handling of ele in pvp.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    Been like this for well over a year, thats 20+ patches.

    This isn't entirely true.

    You hardly see anyone playing weavers in PvE anymore because you can get the same or higher DPS on other classes, some of which have better defences baked into the spec baseline. Other classes have a better damage profile too, there's a reason you see so many DH/FB's as they burst insanely hard, much more than ele. Then you have the fact that ele is the absolute most squishy class to play having less health and taking more damage than any other class and in addition to this other classes bring multiple things like CC, heals, cleanses etc in their meta builds. Basically there's no reason to play ele unless you actually main the class as you'll be working a lot harder to perform as well as someone else while having less utility.

    All risk, no reward except being kicked if not top DPS.

    In PvP:

    If damage is toned down to levels that aren't as egregious then weaver will become and unkillable bunker that wins all 1v1's by attrition. Did you see the latest Cellofrag video where he literally face tanks shatter after shatter, CC after CC yet remains unpunished because power mesmer has poor sustain and the burst is at a level that's not completely busted? He even has time to mess around going after churning earth memes because you don't even have to think anymore just go water, dodge, pause, 2, earth, 2, dodge and you're at full health having healed for something like 10k.

    yep already said weaver sword is almost competitive but bear in mind cello is a top end player.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    To put things into perspective, imagine that skill level playing a better turned profession. Aside from this should eles ONLY semi competitive build for pvp be a 130 ranged melee ? I think we can safely say not many core ele players invested time in this profession in the hope it would accidently become a melee class, so why design the class to be like this?? balancing changes with no vision and coherence by people who don't understand the profession they are trying to balance is pissing a lot of customers off.

    Sword is only "not competitive" because everyone else is doing so much damage. Sword and weaver in general give you plenty of evades as well as low cool down water field and blasts/leaps to utilise them. As I say, if damage is toned down ele will become and unkillable bunker except it will likely win every match up through attrition.

    Top end player? Top end players don't face tank shatters. He's good but make no mistake he's using a tanky af build to cover his many mistakes. I haven't seen him play anything but his tanky build or his meme one shot churning earth.

    It's like claiming Hizen is a top end player, he's not, he's average at best but he uses exceptionally strong builds to cover for his poor mechanical skill.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @ybintell.1984 said:
    Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

    Seems to show a lack of objectivity,

    Overall in this game Elementalist has fared pretty well. In PvE it was DPS king for a huge amount of time and stackable. In WvW it has been meta or at least a reasonable option most of the game (for large scale). And in PvP other than weaver it has done pretty well, pre-HoT ele was only really crappy for a few months before cele ele, then cele ele was one of the most broken OP things the game has ever seen (in relation to the game at that time), then with HoT there was tempest which was really strong (you might not of liked it being support/bunkery but that doesn't alter it was strong).

    pve is irrelevant (aside from the tuned raid content), you can play any build and its perfectly playable, that applies to any profession. WVW is a blob fest. Where balance matters is pvp, and ele has not been competitive for well over a year. Just because there was a window in the past where one or 2 builds were competitive, does not excuse the incompetent handling of ele in pvp.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    Been like this for well over a year, thats 20+ patches.

    This isn't entirely true.

    You hardly see anyone playing weavers in PvE anymore because you can get the same or higher DPS on other classes, some of which have better defences baked into the spec baseline. Other classes have a better damage profile too, there's a reason you see so many DH/FB's as they burst insanely hard, much more than ele. Then you have the fact that ele is the absolute most squishy class to play having less health and taking more damage than any other class and in addition to this other classes bring multiple things like CC, heals, cleanses etc in their meta builds. Basically there's no reason to play ele unless you actually main the class as you'll be working a lot harder to perform as well as someone else while having less utility.

    All risk, no reward except being kicked if not top DPS.

    In PvP:

    If damage is toned down to levels that aren't as egregious then weaver will become and unkillable bunker that wins all 1v1's by attrition. Did you see the latest Cellofrag video where he literally face tanks shatter after shatter, CC after CC yet remains unpunished because power mesmer has poor sustain and the burst is at a level that's not completely busted? He even has time to mess around going after churning earth memes because you don't even have to think anymore just go water, dodge, pause, 2, earth, 2, dodge and you're at full health having healed for something like 10k.

    yep already said weaver sword is almost competitive but bear in mind cello is a top end player.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    To put things into perspective, imagine that skill level playing a better turned profession. Aside from this should eles ONLY semi competitive build for pvp be a 130 ranged melee ? I think we can safely say not many core ele players invested time in this profession in the hope it would accidently become a melee class, so why design the class to be like this?? balancing changes with no vision and coherence by people who don't understand the profession they are trying to balance is pissing a lot of customers off.

    Sword is only "not competitive" because everyone else is doing so much damage. Sword and weaver in general give you plenty of evades as well as low cool down water field and blasts/leaps to utilise them. As I say, if damage is toned down ele will become and unkillable bunker except it will likely win every match up through attrition.

    Top end player? Top end players don't face tank shatters. He's good but make no mistake he's using a tanky af build to cover his many mistakes. I haven't seen him play anything but his tanky build or his meme one shot churning earth.

    It's like claiming Hizen is a top end player, he's not, he's average at best but he uses exceptionally strong builds to cover for his poor mechanical skill.

    Evasion sadly not a roll to play unless your going to be a tankly weaver.

    There more to the ele class then weaver as well tempest needs significance updates as well as core ele. At best anet is only balancing the core class to work with weaver and now tempest or even to stand on its own. I guess that what we get with an effecly "zombed" class of ele as in it has no devs behind it any more.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @ybintell.1984 said:
    Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

    Seems to show a lack of objectivity,

    Overall in this game Elementalist has fared pretty well. In PvE it was DPS king for a huge amount of time and stackable. In WvW it has been meta or at least a reasonable option most of the game (for large scale). And in PvP other than weaver it has done pretty well, pre-HoT ele was only really crappy for a few months before cele ele, then cele ele was one of the most broken OP things the game has ever seen (in relation to the game at that time), then with HoT there was tempest which was really strong (you might not of liked it being support/bunkery but that doesn't alter it was strong).

    pve is irrelevant (aside from the tuned raid content), you can play any build and its perfectly playable, that applies to any profession. WVW is a blob fest. Where balance matters is pvp, and ele has not been competitive for well over a year. Just because there was a window in the past where one or 2 builds were competitive, does not excuse the incompetent handling of ele in pvp.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    Been like this for well over a year, thats 20+ patches.

    This isn't entirely true.

    You hardly see anyone playing weavers in PvE anymore because you can get the same or higher DPS on other classes, some of which have better defences baked into the spec baseline. Other classes have a better damage profile too, there's a reason you see so many DH/FB's as they burst insanely hard, much more than ele. Then you have the fact that ele is the absolute most squishy class to play having less health and taking more damage than any other class and in addition to this other classes bring multiple things like CC, heals, cleanses etc in their meta builds. Basically there's no reason to play ele unless you actually main the class as you'll be working a lot harder to perform as well as someone else while having less utility.

    All risk, no reward except being kicked if not top DPS.

    In PvP:

    If damage is toned down to levels that aren't as egregious then weaver will become and unkillable bunker that wins all 1v1's by attrition. Did you see the latest Cellofrag video where he literally face tanks shatter after shatter, CC after CC yet remains unpunished because power mesmer has poor sustain and the burst is at a level that's not completely busted? He even has time to mess around going after churning earth memes because you don't even have to think anymore just go water, dodge, pause, 2, earth, 2, dodge and you're at full health having healed for something like 10k.

    yep already said weaver sword is almost competitive but bear in mind cello is a top end player.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    To put things into perspective, imagine that skill level playing a better turned profession. Aside from this should eles ONLY semi competitive build for pvp be a 130 ranged melee ? I think we can safely say not many core ele players invested time in this profession in the hope it would accidently become a melee class, so why design the class to be like this?? balancing changes with no vision and coherence by people who don't understand the profession they are trying to balance is pissing a lot of customers off.

    Sword is only "not competitive" because everyone else is doing so much damage. Sword and weaver in general give you plenty of evades as well as low cool down water field and blasts/leaps to utilise them. As I say, if damage is toned down ele will become and unkillable bunker except it will likely win every match up through attrition.

    Top end player? Top end players don't face tank shatters. He's good but make no mistake he's using a tanky af build to cover his many mistakes. I haven't seen him play anything but his tanky build or his meme one shot churning earth.

    It's like claiming Hizen is a top end player, he's not, he's average at best but he uses exceptionally strong builds to cover for his poor mechanical skill.

    Evasion sadly not a roll to play unless your going to be a tankly weaver.

    There more to the ele class then weaver as well tempest needs significance updates as well as core ele. At best anet is only balancing the core class to work with weaver and now tempest or even to stand on its own. I guess that what we get with an effecly "zombed" class of ele as in it has no devs behind it any more.

    LUL

    Tempest and core ele are fine. PvP ele suffers from a stat problem, go WvW and you can get ideal stats and see core ele is fine. Sure Soulbeast and condi mirage take a dump on it but that's because they're overtuned. Holo likewise is a bit overtuned but otherwise you should do fine vs everything else for raoming.

    Zerg's ele is fine, you can still play core staff, sure not as good as weaver but still able to do a lot of damage + take arcane wave immob memes while getting air and fire for damage boosts.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @ybintell.1984 said:
    Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

    Seems to show a lack of objectivity,

    Overall in this game Elementalist has fared pretty well. In PvE it was DPS king for a huge amount of time and stackable. In WvW it has been meta or at least a reasonable option most of the game (for large scale). And in PvP other than weaver it has done pretty well, pre-HoT ele was only really crappy for a few months before cele ele, then cele ele was one of the most broken OP things the game has ever seen (in relation to the game at that time), then with HoT there was tempest which was really strong (you might not of liked it being support/bunkery but that doesn't alter it was strong).

    pve is irrelevant (aside from the tuned raid content), you can play any build and its perfectly playable, that applies to any profession. WVW is a blob fest. Where balance matters is pvp, and ele has not been competitive for well over a year. Just because there was a window in the past where one or 2 builds were competitive, does not excuse the incompetent handling of ele in pvp.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    Been like this for well over a year, thats 20+ patches.

    This isn't entirely true.

    You hardly see anyone playing weavers in PvE anymore because you can get the same or higher DPS on other classes, some of which have better defences baked into the spec baseline. Other classes have a better damage profile too, there's a reason you see so many DH/FB's as they burst insanely hard, much more than ele. Then you have the fact that ele is the absolute most squishy class to play having less health and taking more damage than any other class and in addition to this other classes bring multiple things like CC, heals, cleanses etc in their meta builds. Basically there's no reason to play ele unless you actually main the class as you'll be working a lot harder to perform as well as someone else while having less utility.

    All risk, no reward except being kicked if not top DPS.

    In PvP:

    If damage is toned down to levels that aren't as egregious then weaver will become and unkillable bunker that wins all 1v1's by attrition. Did you see the latest Cellofrag video where he literally face tanks shatter after shatter, CC after CC yet remains unpunished because power mesmer has poor sustain and the burst is at a level that's not completely busted? He even has time to mess around going after churning earth memes because you don't even have to think anymore just go water, dodge, pause, 2, earth, 2, dodge and you're at full health having healed for something like 10k.

    yep already said weaver sword is almost competitive but bear in mind cello is a top end player.

    dagger- competitive in pvp - no.
    focus- competitive in pvp - no.
    sceptre- competitive in pvp - no.
    warhorn- competitive in pvp - no.
    staff- unplayable in pvp .
    tempest- competitive in pvp - no.
    core- competitive in pvp - no.
    weaver - only weaver sword which is almost competitive as a melee(?) bruiser build that requires mender to survive.

    To put things into perspective, imagine that skill level playing a better turned profession. Aside from this should eles ONLY semi competitive build for pvp be a 130 ranged melee ? I think we can safely say not many core ele players invested time in this profession in the hope it would accidently become a melee class, so why design the class to be like this?? balancing changes with no vision and coherence by people who don't understand the profession they are trying to balance is pissing a lot of customers off.

    Sword is only "not competitive" because everyone else is doing so much damage. Sword and weaver in general give you plenty of evades as well as low cool down water field and blasts/leaps to utilise them. As I say, if damage is toned down ele will become and unkillable bunker except it will likely win every match up through attrition.

    Top end player? Top end players don't face tank shatters. He's good but make no mistake he's using a tanky af build to cover his many mistakes. I haven't seen him play anything but his tanky build or his meme one shot churning earth.

    It's like claiming Hizen is a top end player, he's not, he's average at best but he uses exceptionally strong builds to cover for his poor mechanical skill.

    Evasion sadly not a roll to play unless your going to be a tankly weaver.

    There more to the ele class then weaver as well tempest needs significance updates as well as core ele. At best anet is only balancing the core class to work with weaver and now tempest or even to stand on its own. I guess that what we get with an effecly "zombed" class of ele as in it has no devs behind it any more.

    LUL

    Tempest and core ele are fine. PvP ele suffers from a stat problem, go WvW and you can get ideal stats and see core ele is fine. Sure Soulbeast and condi mirage take a dump on it but that's because they're overtuned. Holo likewise is a bit overtuned but otherwise you should do fine vs everything else for raoming.

    Zerg's ele is fine, you can still play core staff, sure not as good as weaver but still able to do a lot of damage + take arcane wave immob memes while getting air and fire for damage boosts.

    That the thing your only looking at this as dmg a lot of what ele use to do in wvw has been demised a great deal. Fields come to mind it use to be part of the balancing that ele had water and forst fields as a means of real support and its gone away due to "overtuned" ability as you put it the better word is "over powers" skills that are simply stronger version of other skills.

    As long as tempest dose not give out stab of any type or some other powerful boon its not usable as a true support in any game type.

    As long as weaver duel skills are mostly projical it will always fall behind classes who can make there skills unblockable.

    As long as ele only can condi bleed and burning in earth and fire ele will never be able to get any real use from condi dmg.

    There just too much going the wrong way for the ele class that NEED to be updated to the current balancing before it a real viable class. Till then its a tagging class who only looks like they are doing things. This is all due to no ele dev. even when there was an ele dev it seemed like they had a different set of rule for what they could add to the class the other classes that are "overtuned."

    THAT is the real problem here some classes are ok to be "overtuned" for years on end and its ok for classes to be "undertuned" and this is purely due to ppl who are unwilling to call anet out both players and ppl who work at anet.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    As long as tempest dose not give out stab of any type or some other powerful boon its not usable as a true support in any game type.

    Rock solid (give stab 2s on 5 allies when attuning to earth), eye of the storm (break stun for allies)

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:
    I can't take any complaint that tries to position themselves as more worthless than Necromancer seriously. I mean, come on ......Elementalist has had longer stints at the top. Elementalist may be going through some rough times right now but let's not blow it out of proportion.

    engineers have gone through some pretty rough times in the past I heard with scrapper and core.

    I was even advised against playing unless I want to:

    A be a healer on scrapper
    B:Want a super hard condi rotation I heard.

    In PvE, scrapper might as well have never existed until the med kit reworks (I kept running core engi until PoF). Now it seems ANet has no idea what to do with scrapper.

    Core engineer has had a lot of trait mismanagement. They're starting to get a better vision for core engi traits, but after the pre-HoT rework, it was an absolute mess. Most of engi's best traits were in the adept or master tier, and our grandmasters have always been pretty lackluster.

    As far as I can tell, holo's the bandaid keeping the class together.

    Without holosmith, engineer would somehow be even worse than ele. That profession is in dire need of work. The absolutely broken state of photon forge is the only thing keeping engineer afloat. I think that Anet simply has no idea how to balance complex professions, so you'd better hope that the next ele elite spec is the simplest one ever. Then it can be strong and useful.

    So how is weaver compared to the other elites? just curious

    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    Least played because of stupid nerfs.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    Least played because of stupid nerfs.

    The nerf to riptide was 100% needed.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    As long as tempest dose not give out stab of any type or some other powerful boon its not usable as a true support in any game type.

    Rock solid (give stab 2s on 5 allies when attuning to earth), eye of the storm (break stun for allies)

    Lol what solid chose rock solid is a joke.

    Eye of the storm is nice but other classes get better stun brakes for there team on lower cd and better effects. Stun brakes are not as good as stab support before the stun. The UI in gw2 dose not well enofe show who is stunned to make pt stun brakes ever work well.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    Least played because of stupid nerfs.

    The nerf to riptide was 100% needed.

    Sword nerfs mean nothing to me. I don't play the current brain-dead build which involves eles dodging and healing 24/7. The damage is bad and the gameplay is boring. What I care about, and what I was referring to, were the nerfs done to staff weavers. Those changes should never have happened.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    Least played because of stupid nerfs.

    The nerf to riptide was 100% needed.

    Sword nerfs mean nothing to me. I don't play the current brain-dead build which involves eles dodging and healing 24/7. The damage is bad and the gameplay is boring. What I care about, and what I was referring to, were the nerfs done to staff weavers. Those changes should never have happened.

    Ironically the staff nerf that was intended for PvE was a bigger nerf in PvP. They had already split lava font to have a lower cd in PvP, because they knew that staff and especially that skill are terrible in PvP. However, in the latest lava font nerf they nerfed the damage by 40% while unsplitting to the lower the cd in PvE and WvW to compensate. For some reason PvP got the damage reduction and kept the same lower cd. Apparently lava font was destroying people in PvP and it needed a bigger nerf than in PvE.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    Least played because of stupid nerfs.

    The nerf to riptide was 100% needed.

    Sword nerfs mean nothing to me. I don't play the current brain-dead build which involves eles dodging and healing 24/7. The damage is bad and the gameplay is boring. What I care about, and what I was referring to, were the nerfs done to staff weavers. Those changes should never have happened.

    Ironically the staff nerf that was intended for PvE was a bigger nerf in PvP. They had already split lava font to have a lower cd in PvP, because they knew that staff and especially that skill are terrible in PvP. However, in the latest lava font nerf they nerfed the damage by 40% while unsplitting to the lower the cd in PvE and WvW to compensate. For some reason PvP got the damage reduction and kept the same lower cd. Apparently lava font was destroying people in PvP and it needed a bigger nerf than in PvE.

    So whats the go to build for pvp? and why? so you guys jump around healing or somethin?

    Is weaver still stronger than tempest in pve?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    Least played because of stupid nerfs.

    The nerf to riptide was 100% needed.

    Sword nerfs mean nothing to me. I don't play the current brain-dead build which involves eles dodging and healing 24/7. The damage is bad and the gameplay is boring. What I care about, and what I was referring to, were the nerfs done to staff weavers. Those changes should never have happened.

    Ironically the staff nerf that was intended for PvE was a bigger nerf in PvP. They had already split lava font to have a lower cd in PvP, because they knew that staff and especially that skill are terrible in PvP. However, in the latest lava font nerf they nerfed the damage by 40% while unsplitting to the lower the cd in PvE and WvW to compensate. For some reason PvP got the damage reduction and kept the same lower cd. Apparently lava font was destroying people in PvP and it needed a bigger nerf than in PvE.

    So whats the go to build for pvp? and why? so you guys jump around healing or somethin?

    Is weaver still stronger than tempest in pve?

    https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/elementalist/

    Staff is not relevant, which is what makes the PvP nerf baffling to say the least.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    As long as tempest dose not give out stab of any type or some other powerful boon its not usable as a true support in any game type.

    Rock solid (give stab 2s on 5 allies when attuning to earth), eye of the storm (break stun for allies)

    Lol what solid chose rock solid is a joke.

    Eye of the storm is nice but other classes get better stun brakes for there team on lower cd and better effects. Stun brakes are not as good as stab support before the stun. The UI in gw2 dose not well enofe show who is stunned to make pt stun brakes ever work well.

    Rock solid is potentially a stab stack for your party every 10 seconds. The way I see it is that most elementalists rule out the earth magic traitline automatically. This is totally understandable in a condi meta, however in a power meta earth magic offer very interesting traits. For example an earth magic elementalist have the tools to prevent them from being unexpectedly one shoted by power builds (for example, stone heart can make an elementalist extremly hard to kill for power builds).

  • calb.3128calb.3128 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    Least played because of stupid nerfs.

    The nerf to riptide was 100% needed.

    Sword nerfs mean nothing to me. I don't play the current brain-dead build which involves eles dodging and healing 24/7. The damage is bad and the gameplay is boring. What I care about, and what I was referring to, were the nerfs done to staff weavers. Those changes should never have happened.

    Ironically the staff nerf that was intended for PvE was a bigger nerf in PvP. They had already split lava font to have a lower cd in PvP, because they knew that staff and especially that skill are terrible in PvP. However, in the latest lava font nerf they nerfed the damage by 40% while unsplitting to the lower the cd in PvE and WvW to compensate. For some reason PvP got the damage reduction and kept the same lower cd. Apparently lava font was destroying people in PvP and it needed a bigger nerf than in PvE.

    So whats the go to build for pvp? and why? so you guys jump around healing or somethin?

    Is weaver still stronger than tempest in pve?

    It depends. Both are now viable depending on content. Tempest has better burst and AoE, but sword Weaver has sustainable DPS in longer fights.

    For anything other than well-coordinated group play, where sword Weaver can reach its potential, Tempest wins for me. It’s much more forgiving of less organised groups and I find ploughs through open world content quicker than any Weaver build post staff fire nerfs.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    I would say weaver is probably the most complex elite spec to date. Probably why it's the least played PoF spec.

    Least played because of stupid nerfs.

    The nerf to riptide was 100% needed.

    Sword nerfs mean nothing to me. I don't play the current brain-dead build which involves eles dodging and healing 24/7. The damage is bad and the gameplay is boring. What I care about, and what I was referring to, were the nerfs done to staff weavers. Those changes should never have happened.

    Staff hasn't been relevant for a very long time in PvP and playing it as pure damage is nothing but a meme, staff is too slow and the pace of the game has become too fast for staff to be relevant. In WvW staff weavers were hitting people in full minstrels for 12-15k it was a joke and not the funny kind.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    As long as tempest dose not give out stab of any type or some other powerful boon its not usable as a true support in any game type.

    Rock solid (give stab 2s on 5 allies when attuning to earth), eye of the storm (break stun for allies)

    Lol what solid chose rock solid is a joke.

    Eye of the storm is nice but other classes get better stun brakes for there team on lower cd and better effects. Stun brakes are not as good as stab support before the stun. The UI in gw2 dose not well enofe show who is stunned to make pt stun brakes ever work well.

    Rock solid is potentially a stab stack for your party every 10 seconds. The way I see it is that most elementalists rule out the earth magic traitline automatically. This is totally understandable in a condi meta, however in a power meta earth magic offer very interesting traits. For example an earth magic elementalist have the tools to prevent them from being unexpectedly one shoted by power builds (for example, stone heart can make an elementalist extremly hard to kill for power builds).

    It never was good and never will be good as is. Ppl get more use out of cdr / -33% to soft cc. It is one of though realty bad effects ele has the fill the roll of nothing more to point at that "yes ele has that effect" but they leave out that its effecly worthless with the update to stab stacks system and was even bad back when stab did not stack due to its super low duration.

    Its out dated like every thing else on ele balancing.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭

    Tempest is strong in fractals : easier rotation and more solid than weaver, strong burst, add a small buff (the lightning strike field thing) but once you're out of the Hammer and the Storm DPS decreases dramatically.
    It's a bursty build ideal in fractal medium fight; otherwise it's kitten, weaver can do >40k burst in 5sec and better dps in longer fight.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭

    For elem.
    I hope they kill it once and for all in pvp/wvw instead of nerfs after nerfs. We just can't be such emotive and attached to a broken unplayable class. All these threads and my messages for evidence

  • steve.2945steve.2945 Member ✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    I loved playing my ele since 2014, I said enough is enough and some days ago i made a mesmer. Mesmer feels exactly how i wish ele was, I'll stick with mesmer until anet realizes the purpose for what an elementalist is supposed to be.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @ybintell.1984 said:
    Elementalist is going to be the underclass forever.

    Seems to show a lack of objectivity,

    Overall in this game Elementalist has fared pretty well. In PvE it was DPS king for a huge amount of time and stackable. In WvW it has been meta or at least a reasonable option most of the game (for large scale). And in PvP other than weaver it has done pretty well, pre-HoT ele was only really crappy for a few months before cele ele, then cele ele was one of the most broken OP things the game has ever seen (in relation to the game at that time), then with HoT there was tempest which was really strong (you might not of liked it being support/bunkery but that doesn't alter it was strong).

    See, this is how I know people do not play Ele. If they did, they would know Tempest got harder nerfs than even druid who was their contender for bunker.

    Druids STILL functions, but we had all of our Condi cleanse and good traits ripped from us. There was one by TWO instances in PvP where they were strong. That's it. Name me another time when they were strong? Name me any well-known elementalist that is not Cellofrag and his stupid 'ecksdee heals' build.

    You can't.

    We do not care about PVE. You cannot justify EVERY single bloody thing about ele just because it is strong in PVE. I'm so tired of people like you. I really am. The only reason why we even get highest DPS is OTHER classes, not because of our own DPS in raids.

    Congrats cupcake, I shattered that argument. And I promise you. I truly promise you. As a good PvP player. I can get on WvW, strap on my deadeye or mesmer, and kill your guy's Weavers, while stealthing out and laughing in your face. Any decent pvper can do that, especially when a lot of WvW players are the equivalent skill level of PVE players.

    Ele has fundamental problems that keeps it stuck in 2012. It's outdated. Everything does it's job better. DPS, heals, boons. I have not seen one person on this thread, against fixing ele, present an argument that cannot be easily refuted by a long-time, skilled ele player.

    Hell, even S7ven could come in here and break down roaming ele builds and why they got outclassed by these PoF classes. He played it throughout all expansions before quitting because the one of maybe two classes that shows actual skill expression is ironically the weakest because Anet is too scared to adjust things accordingly and simply will rather make money off of things that auto-pilot themselves for CASUAL players.

  • the only viable pvp builds require us to be within melee range to be effective....

    ....on a class with the lowest base HP and that wears light armor.

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