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Ban ArcDPS and any third party program


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@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Anything 3rd party program that exists in the game that allows players to criticize or basically exclude other players from content shouldn't exist in the first place. We are told that we are to play how we want to play, and I'm pretty sure nowhere in their rules does it state players are allowed to tell or dictate how other players are to play. We can't change players toxic behavior (at least not that easily), but you can take away their ammo by not allowing such programs into the game.

This was one of the issues prior to the existence of raids; many were saying it was going to create far more toxic behavior than we had previously. Also, if dps meters then became prominent in the game due to raids, it was going to exacerbate the problem, and look where we are today. Basically; "We told you so", is in order here.

As others have stated, dps meters are basically a moot. If you know the mechanics of the boss; they're going down, you don't need dps meters. They seem to be providing a more negative effect than positive one. It's not one players job to tell another player how to play, nor is it their job to provide advice or feedback if it's not warranted. If the player asks, then give it, if they don't ask, say nothing. Don't tell them their dps is low; instead take like minded players from your group, leave the group, and start another one with like-minded players, and restart the raid.

Sure, dps meters aren't banned now, but don't be so quick to assume they'll stay that way. If players can't learn to play nicely, Anet can & will ban them at will (including the accounts that continue to use them).

Then why are you trying to dictate how other players play the game? If they want to speed run and obsess about DPS, who made you king that you deserve a spot in their raid?

DPS meters are a tool that many players want. Heck, I'm primarily a solo open world player. I get my enjoyment from soloing group events and champion/legendary bosses. I want DPS meters, too! They're a useful tool that many MMO players expect to have access to.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:

I would actually argue that for the vast majority of players, it's not that they do not realize this.. it's simply that they do not care.I speak as one of those players who does not care about min/maxing DPS as playing to perfect rotations and hiting DPS benchmarks is absoutely not fun in my opinion.The second playing a game becomes a chore for me it stops being fun.. and if i'm not having fun then there's no point in even playing.

I'm sure that while most players who don't use a DPS meter are aware they aren't the best of the best, they are probably convinced that they aren't
that
bad. In the absence of information, they assume that they belong in any group and that people who take issue with their performance are just nitpicking over a meaningless number.

I don't think many people think that way.. typically when I see a group that demands exp players/quick runs I avoid them as I assume they are going to be full of DPS types who i've no interest in arguing with or playing with in general.My experiences with these kinds of players have almost always been in groups i've made or groups others have made where we've clearly stated everyone is welcome, and a couple of times where I've joined a group that was DPS focused but wasn't labelled as such in the LFG which was not my fault nor problem.

It's fine if you don't care about these things. Play open world. Form your own group for fractals/raids. But don't expect that you have a right to play poorly and cause problems for a group full of players that
do
care about these things. That's just asking for conflict.

Agreed, that's how most of us do it in all honesty.Nobody finds that kind of conflict fun so there's no reason for us to join those groups knowing that.Thing is this is a two way issue and it's not just us joining DPS groups causing conflict.. DPS players also occasionally join All Welcome groups and try to take them over as well which leads to the same conflict.

I do run a DPS meter, but I'm not big into fractals and I don't optimize for them. For that reason I always indicate the sort of group I'm looking for (e.g. "chill run", "new players welcome", etc.) to avoid issues. I'd rather accept a slower pace than listen to players griping at each other, dropping group, or worse voting to kick each other. I'm in it for fun and that sort of thing kills it for me.

Yeah that's exactly how I operate in the game too, All Welcome is something I add to all my LFG groups and it really doesn't matter to me if the content takes 5 minutes or 30 minutes to beat.As long as everyones having fun i'm content.
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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Jimbru.6014 said:Second the motion to ban all addons.

Also add the amendment to modernize the UI with some of those functions that people consider essential as addons.

cough
cough
build saving
cough

Never gonna happend like its not hard to just put stuff on build saving saves you max 2mins

2 minutes during which your whole party will be waiting for you. 2 minutes every single time you want to adapt to a situation. 2 minutes each time you want to compare two different builds (and in that case it will probably be more since you will switch between both builds several times).And I will add that being a mere mortal myself, I sometimes forget some things when I change my build. Build saving would fix that too.

All in all, 2 minutes that are completely unnecessary, which could be avoided by implementing a functionality that ArcDPS already does (I mean to point out that we already have proof that this is not impossible to do).

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@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:We are told that we are to play how we want to play, and I'm pretty sure nowhere in their rules does it state players are allowed to tell or dictate how other players are to play.

You don't want others to tell you how to play, yet you want to tell other players how to play. Always amazing to see how hypocritical the "play how you want" crowd is. Or maybe they don't understand the meaning of that phrase.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

I would actually argue that for the vast majority of players, it's not that they do not realize this.. it's simply that they do not care.I speak as one of those players who does not care about min/maxing DPS as playing to perfect rotations and hiting DPS benchmarks is absoutely not fun in my opinion.The second playing a game becomes a chore for me it stops being fun.. and if i'm not having fun then there's no point in even playing.

I'm sure that while most players who don't use a DPS meter are aware they aren't the best of the best, they are probably convinced that they aren't
that
bad. In the absence of information, they assume that they belong in any group and that people who take issue with their performance are just nitpicking over a meaningless number.

I don't think many people think that way.. typically when I see a group that demands exp players/quick runs I avoid them as I assume they are going to be full of DPS types who i've no interest in arguing with or playing with in general.My experiences with these kinds of players have almost always been in groups i've made or groups others have made where we've clearly stated everyone is welcome, and a couple of times where I've joined a group that was DPS focused but wasn't labelled as such in the LFG which was not my fault nor problem.

It's fine if you don't care about these things. Play open world. Form your own group for fractals/raids. But don't expect that you have a right to play poorly and cause problems for a group full of players that
do
care about these things. That's just asking for conflict.

Agreed, that's how most of us do it in all honesty.Nobody finds that kind of conflict fun so there's no reason for us to join those groups knowing that.Thing is this is a two way issue and it's not just us joining DPS groups causing conflict.. DPS players also occasionally join All Welcome groups and try to take them over as well which leads to the same conflict.

I do run a DPS meter, but I'm not big into fractals and I don't optimize for them. For that reason I always indicate the sort of group I'm looking for (e.g. "chill run", "new players welcome", etc.) to avoid issues. I'd rather accept a slower pace than listen to players griping at each other, dropping group, or worse voting to kick each other. I'm in it for fun and that sort of thing kills it for me.

Yeah that's exactly how I operate in the game too, All Welcome is something I add to all my LFG groups and it really doesn't matter to me if the content takes 5 minutes or 30 minutes to beat.As long as everyones having fun i'm content.

So, let me ask you, do you think it's reasonable to ask that we remove DPS meters based upon the few bad apples who would join a group knowing that it's not an exp/speed run and then start picking fights about DPS? Does that make any kind of sense at all? And do you really think it would be an improvement? You know perfectly well those same players would be pointing fingers with or without access to a DPS meter.

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@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Jimbru.6014 said:Second the motion to ban all addons.

Also add the amendment to modernize the UI with some of those functions that people consider essential as addons.

cough
cough
build saving
cough

Never gonna happend like its not hard to just put stuff on build saving saves you max 2mins

2 minutes during which your whole party will be waiting for you. 2 minutes every single time you want to adapt to a situation. 2 minutes each time you want to compare two different builds (and in that case it will probably be more since you will switch between both builds several times).And I will add that being a mere mortal myself, I sometimes forget some things when I change my build. Build saving would fix that too.

All in all, 2 minutes that are completely unnecessary, which could be avoided by implementing a functionality that ArcDPS already does (I mean to point out that we already have proof that this is not impossible to do).

2 mins is not alot

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:We are told that we are to play how we want to play, and I'm pretty sure nowhere in their rules does it state players are allowed to tell or dictate how other players are to play.

You don't want others to tell you how to play, yet you want to tell other players how to play. Always amazing to see how hypocritical the "play how you want" crowd is. Or maybe they don't understand the meaning of that phrase.

that's gatekeeping for you

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I'm sorry, but how naive do you have to be to believe the people weren't already toxic before ArcDPS came out.Tools don't breed toxicity.Toxicity abuses tools.

technically correct, wrong in practice. there is a difference between a knife and an automatic weapon.

  • 4 warrior 1 chrono

just want to point out that there weren't any chronos back then lol.

Yes, what we have now is a knife. A scalpel even. Previous to the dps meter is was an artillery barrage.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

I would actually argue that for the vast majority of players, it's not that they do not realize this.. it's simply that they do not care.I speak as one of those players who does not care about min/maxing DPS as playing to perfect rotations and hiting DPS benchmarks is absoutely not fun in my opinion.The second playing a game becomes a chore for me it stops being fun.. and if i'm not having fun then there's no point in even playing.

I'm sure that while most players who don't use a DPS meter are aware they aren't the best of the best, they are probably convinced that they aren't
that
bad. In the absence of information, they assume that they belong in any group and that people who take issue with their performance are just nitpicking over a meaningless number.

I don't think many people think that way.. typically when I see a group that demands exp players/quick runs I avoid them as I assume they are going to be full of DPS types who i've no interest in arguing with or playing with in general.My experiences with these kinds of players have almost always been in groups i've made or groups others have made where we've clearly stated everyone is welcome, and a couple of times where I've joined a group that was DPS focused but wasn't labelled as such in the LFG which was not my fault nor problem.

It's fine if you don't care about these things. Play open world. Form your own group for fractals/raids. But don't expect that you have a right to play poorly and cause problems for a group full of players that
do
care about these things. That's just asking for conflict.

Agreed, that's how most of us do it in all honesty.Nobody finds that kind of conflict fun so there's no reason for us to join those groups knowing that.Thing is this is a two way issue and it's not just us joining DPS groups causing conflict.. DPS players also occasionally join All Welcome groups and try to take them over as well which leads to the same conflict.

I do run a DPS meter, but I'm not big into fractals and I don't optimize for them. For that reason I always indicate the sort of group I'm looking for (e.g. "chill run", "new players welcome", etc.) to avoid issues. I'd rather accept a slower pace than listen to players griping at each other, dropping group, or worse voting to kick each other. I'm in it for fun and that sort of thing kills it for me.

Yeah that's exactly how I operate in the game too, All Welcome is something I add to all my LFG groups and it really doesn't matter to me if the content takes 5 minutes or 30 minutes to beat.As long as everyones having fun i'm content.

So, let me ask you, do you think it's reasonable to ask that we remove DPS meters based upon the few bad apples who would join a group knowing that it's not an exp/speed run and then start picking fights about DPS? Does that make any kind of sense at all? And do you really think it would be an improvement? You know perfectly well those same players would be pointing fingers with or without access to a DPS meter.

Not at all, although there are no ingame ones to remove to begin with and I think that was intentional on Anets part to avoid this sort of thing.They can be a useful tool for those who care about maxing their personal DPS but I think people who do care about that stuff need to understand that Gw2 is a far more casual MMO compared to others that encourage the kind of DPS focus that they participate in.

The simplest solution as with anything though is to just block people who you have bad experiences with.I really don't see why people have a difficult time with this concept in todays age.. seems like everyone just wants to spite each other when they can just block each other and never have to deal with each other again lol

Sure I come down on the casuals side when it comes to this DPS argument for reasons above and beyond but blocking is more than a sufficient way of never having to deal with the same elitist twice.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

Not at all, although there are no ingame ones to remove to begin with and I think that was intentional on Anets part to avoid this sort of thing.They can be a useful tool for those who care about maxing their personal DPS but I think people who do care about that stuff need to understand that Gw2 is a far more casual MMO compared to others that encourage the kind of DPS focus that they participate in.

The simplest solution as with anything though is to just block people who you have bad experiences with.I really don't see why people have a difficult time with this concept in todays age.. seems like everyone just wants to spite each other when they can just block each other and never have to deal with each other again lol

Sure I come down on the casuals side when it comes to this DPS argument for reasons above and beyond but blocking is more than a sufficient way of never having to deal with the same elitist twice.

I agree. Toxic behavior is unacceptable. And the solution is to do what you can to avoid placing yourself in contact with players who you suspect aren't compatible and block and move on if things get out of hand.

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Its understandably frustrating, but I dont think the addons are the problem. GMs should enforce rules that prevent bullying behaviour. Everyones at a different point in their knowledge of their game and class, and stomping on the little guy is entirely inappropriate.

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I see several solutions to this, one of which would actually be pretty hilarious to impliment.

Firstly, addons should have a hidden cost. The server itself should check for 3rd party software and 'tax' you on each check. Like 1/10th of your gold, 1/10th of every mat in your bank, and 1/10th of every currency in your wallet. It checks every time you log in, and every time you go idle. Have it also check every 4 hours regardless of idle. In this way you don't even have to ban addons, people will stop using them so they stop getting charged. Since it can never completely drain your wallets some people will still use them, even if only sparingly but it will cost the elitists to use and this will make most people happy.

You can set a detect on if an account's information is being accessed by said account. The inventory, achievement list, equipment information, and bank is attached to the account which is attached to the ISP the account is connected to. If any other ISP attempts to look at that data, the account trying to look should immediately be forced to hand over (IE forced mail) 1/3rd of their gold, kharma, and all wallet currency. Yes, it is supposed to hurt. If the cost is not totalling over 100 gold/75k kharma/wallet is whatever then it auto kicks the person from the game. Call it a "mind your own business" tax and would be exceptionally hilarious should it work.

Add in for small groups (5 man/10 man instanced content) you can only kick so many people in a week, after that when you vote kick you yourself get auto kicked from the group. This number should shrink for every week you max out and only return to normal after months of not being used. Every dungeon can be completed by every known group make-up. There is no reason to kick people realistically as long as they are participating. For example a group of 5 only using auto attack can complete AC.This will not be enforced if the group is in WvW.

Another semi hilarious thing to do for old world dungeons is to put in a 'speed trap'. Do the dungeon too fast via skipping and you get no loot and cannot re enter ANY instanced locations the rest of the day. Basically, kill the mobs between bosses and how fast you go is irrelevant but if you skip them /all/ then the trap gets you if you are too fast.

No way is this all viable, or even workable. Though it is possible to cleverly code any of it in with enough time and testing.

My own stance on it? If you need/require addons than you aren't nearly as good at a game as you think you are. I honestly don't care if they are in the game or not. People crying about not doing something fast enough, it is a game you should be enjoying. If you aren't enjoying yourself why are you doing it? As for elitists demanding certain builds, this is usually to cover their own lackluster ability. In GW2 especially, I have seen entire groups with absolutely horribly builds/gear complete things with no deaths, it just takes longer. Frankly those fights ended up being far more fun as well as the people are typically more talkative and at ease.

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@"Runiir.6425" said:I see several solutions to this, one of which would actually be pretty hilarious to impliment.

Firstly, addons should have a hidden cost. The server itself should check for 3rd party software and 'tax' you on each check. Like 1/10th of your gold, 1/10th of every mat in your bank, and 1/10th of every currency in your wallet. It checks every time you log in, and every time you go idle. Have it also check every 4 hours regardless of idle. In this way you don't even have to ban addons, people will stop using them so they stop getting charged. Since it can never completely drain your wallets some people will still use them, even if only sparingly but it will cost the elitists to use and this will make most people happy.

You can set a detect on if an account's information is being accessed by said account. The inventory, achievement list, equipment information, and bank is attached to the account which is attached to the ISP the account is connected to. If any other ISP attempts to look at that data, the account trying to look should immediately be forced to hand over (IE forced mail) 1/3rd of their gold, kharma, and all wallet currency. Yes, it is supposed to hurt. If the cost is not totalling over 100 gold/75k kharma/wallet is whatever then it auto kicks the person from the game. Call it a "mind your own business" tax and would be exceptionally hilarious should it work.

Add in for small groups (5 man/10 man instanced content) you can only kick so many people in a week, after that when you vote kick you yourself get auto kicked from the group. This number should shrink for every week you max out and only return to normal after months of not being used. Every dungeon can be completed by every known group make-up. There is no reason to kick people realistically as long as they are participating. For example a group of 5 only using auto attack can complete AC.This will not be enforced if the group is in WvW.

Another semi hilarious thing to do for old world dungeons is to put in a 'speed trap'. Do the dungeon too fast via skipping and you get no loot and cannot re enter ANY instanced locations the rest of the day. Basically, kill the mobs between bosses and how fast you go is irrelevant but if you skip them /all/ then the trap gets you if you are too fast.

No way is this all viable, or even workable. Though it is possible to cleverly code any of it in with enough time and testing.

My own stance on it? If you need/require addons than you aren't nearly as good at a game as you think you are. I honestly don't care if they are in the game or not. People crying about not doing something fast enough, it is a game you should be enjoying. If you aren't enjoying yourself why are you doing it? As for elitists demanding certain builds, this is usually to cover their own lackluster ability. In GW2 especially, I have seen entire groups with absolutely horribly builds/gear complete things with no deaths, it just takes longer. Frankly those fights ended up being far more fun as well as the people are typically more talkative and at ease.

There is so much wrong about this.

1) Most people using addons don't require them, but have reached the point where they are unable to progress further due to a lack of information. It's not the total scrubs who create addons, but the more hardcore folks who needs that information - OR JUST ENJOY IT.

2) Has it occurred to you that people might enjoy number crunching?

3) Why do you assume that they AREN'T enjoying themselves? Some people like speedrunning. Some people like running with others who like number crunching and doing things as fast as possible, as a challenge. Folks enjoy different things. Get over it.

4) It's usually the people who DON'T use addons that aren't even aware of how awful they are, or how much they're ruining the fun of other present parties. The people who go into 'elitist' groups and complain that they got kicked for not carrying their weight, when they were the vast minority, and somehow make themselves out to be the victim when really they just rudely intruded, are the SAME kind of people who barge in on a fractal group of 4 other people running open world builds and complaining about DPS.

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@Squirrel.6318 said:That kitten is ridiculous, as if the community wasn't elitist enough. Haven't been in a dungeon or raid or fractal in like 3 years because of how elitist they are.

I can't remember the last dungeon/fractal I ran where anyone said anything, and I didn't even get full ascended gear, a DPS meter, and mastery of my rotation until recently. Even before all of this, no one really ever said anything.

You're assuming a lot about the majority of the community. DPS meters aren't a problem, only the people behind them. Three or four years ago, we didn't even have DPS meters, yet some people were still elitist jerks as you describe.

Kinda makes it sound like meters were never the issue, huh?

Let me draw another parallel for you, which I made in a previous post you might not have seen. Your health bar is a meter that tracks your current health. Is it also toxic/elitist for other people to be able to see your health, just as they can see your damage? Is it wrong of them to want you to not stand in fire and dodge other avoidable mechanics so the dungeon/raid can be completed? Should we remove health bars along with DPS meters?

By the logic of people who hate DPS meters, every ounce of information that can be tracked and critiqued should be removed. At the end of that crusade, what will be left of the game?

(Lastly, there are enrage timers in raids. It is necessary in those cases to, on the fly, figure out what's going on if you're hitting enrage.)

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@"heartless.9014" said:And that is exactly why I do not do a single instanced dungeon of any sorts in this game. The game community is 100% speed runners. That's all there is. Nobody else plays the game or does dungeons. So there is no sense in me even bothers to do a dungeon when I've never done any of them.And yet my "chill run" LFGs still fill up very fast and i have yet to see any problem with them. At worst someone will leave without any word if it goes too bad, but even that rarely happens.

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:As others have stated, dps meters are basically a moot. If you know the mechanics of the boss; they're going down, you don't need dps meters.That's not really true. I have seen enough of low dps players in fractals and dungeons to know, that in raids that level of dps would simply not be enough. Yes, you can have one such player in the group, but only if everyone else covers for them. That is essentially getting carried. A group of such players will generally not be able to kill the boss at all. Basically, while you don't need top tier dps levels, you still need it to be well over the open world standart. And lot of people complaining about dps meters are around open world standard.

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I've never witness anyone kick/say to me or anyone else in years of T4 pug dailies fractals because of ARCdps. If someone is mentioning something it would have to be someone whos AFK or someone who really isn't trying at all and wanting to be carried. While I don't use these programs since I know my rotations are solid on the dummy--and I can ask those who use ARC what I did on a certain boss--I don't think it should be bannable.

Unless you're doing CMs/raid--which then you have to show you're competent or else everyone fails--then no-one really cares. It seems very anecdotal to me OP because GW2 is notorious for being ultra friendly. There's always 1-2 people in a frac group that's spot on and it gets done faster regardless. Casual content I would say 99% people don't care unless you're AFKing/trolling.

It's not rational to want to remove something from everyone--if they so choose--because you've had a few outlier experiences that doesn't accurately represent the average pug group. It's selfish to want it only your way, some people thrive on pushing their characters further and using tools to monitor/analyze their performance. Punishing many for the actions of a few, it's not good practice. As long as people aren't breaking the rules such as swearing at you, abusing--I mean actual abuse not just disagree/questioning you--then I find it's usually that person complaining that has to make changes.

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@"Applejuice.4083" said:...got kicked towards the end of AC P2 because "Dps sucks", really? On AC P2?

You know... I doubt this was a case of your DPS sucking or due to ArcDPS at all, but rather these people scamming you and giving the place to someone they could get some gold off instead... or one of their own friends.

Hope you reported them for dungeon scamming and sorry you were unfortunate victim of dicks playing the game... banning ArcDPS won't get rid of indecent dicks...

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Another reason why banning ArcDPS will help no one, specially those asking for it.Yesterday during A W1-E4 run, I noticed the other Druid had very low might up-time.At the end of W2, I asked in private: "what kind of gear are you using because you have a very low might duration". No answer.Start of W3, I got the answer:http://i.imgur.com/Rcufi7G.jpgIt seems what you feel and think you can do counts more than hard data. The problem is when what you think does not compute with actual data.Who needs ArcDPS when you have a brain.

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@"Deepcuts.9740" said:Another reason why banning ArcDPS will help no one, specially those asking for it.Yesterday during A W1-E4 run, I noticed the other Druid had very low might up-time.At the end of W2, I asked in private: "what kind of gear are you using because you have a very low might duration". No answer.Start of W3, I got the answer:http://i.imgur.com/Rcufi7G.jpgIt seems what you feel and think you can do counts more than hard data. The problem is when what you think does not compute with actual data.Who needs ArcDPS when you have a brain.

Shouldn't 1 druid be more then enough to cap the might?

What was that frost for 1 dps about tho seems a weird comment?

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@Emberstone.2904 said:

@"Squirrel.6318" said:That kitten is ridiculous, as if the community wasn't elitist enough. Haven't been in a dungeon or raid or fractal in like 3 years because of how elitist they are.

I can't remember the last dungeon/fractal I ran where anyone said anything, and I didn't even get full ascended gear, a DPS meter, and mastery of my rotation until recently. Even before all of this, no one really ever said anything.

You're assuming a lot about the majority of the community. DPS meters aren't a problem, only the people behind them. Three or four years ago, we didn't even have DPS meters, yet some people were still elitist jerks as you describe.

Kinda makes it sound like meters were never the issue, huh?

Let me draw another parallel for you, which I made in a previous post you might not have seen. Your health bar is a meter that tracks your current health. Is it also toxic/elitist for other people to be able to see your health, just as they can see your damage? Is it wrong of them to want you to not stand in fire and dodge other avoidable mechanics so the dungeon/raid can be completed? Should we remove health bars along with DPS meters?

By the logic of people who hate DPS meters, every ounce of information that can be tracked and critiqued should be removed. At the end of that crusade, what will be left of the game?

(Lastly, there are enrage timers in raids. It is necessary in those cases to, on the fly, figure out what's going on if you're hitting enrage.)

Fair enough if someone wants to make it complicated. I don't play so serious, but I won't judge those who do... it's when they start complaining about other players when that's the problem. I don't really care about my teammates being "bad" as long as they are trying their best.

Honestly, I don't care about elitists, because I don't play with them anymore...I mean some people want to play serious, that's their choice. but ArenaNet should have like a more noob or casual friendly dungeon option for guys who just want to play the game, like "casual dungeon match making." I love dungeons in games, but in GW2, no thanks. And they expect you to know like every route and method to use. Like you're supposed to stand here, hug this wall, stay in this corner, they don't even tell you, it's like you're expected to know. I mean there are casual players that do dungeons but i've been playing since on and off release and have had a hard time finding a party that doesn't really care about builds and just wants to try the dungeon. I don't like this whole "raid training" stuff that guilds do as well. Can we not just wing it?

ArenaNet should try like a ranked dungeon/raid matchmaking thing for the more serious players.

I played GW1 and the dungeons there were not so strict, I mean yeah people wanted certain classes and builds but I would say half didn't care. I loved it. I was going through Urgoz Warren, The Deep, did the Nightfall end-game dungeons, like once a week. But in GW2 everyone is like "what build are you using, ping your outfit, get on discord..." hell I don't know this stuff, I just want to play the game. The discord thing I hate so much, it's not fun for me, power to those who like it, but it kills immersion for me. Yeah people used it in GW1, but I would say a good half of the community didn't, most parties I went in dungeons and missions didn't use it.

Having DPS meters just makes things worse for casual players I think. I think that's why a lot of us just avoid dungeons. It shouldn't be like that. But fair enough for serious players.

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@yann.1946 said:

@"Deepcuts.9740" said:Another reason why banning ArcDPS will help no one, specially those asking for it.Yesterday during A W1-E4 run, I noticed the other Druid had very low might up-time.At the end of W2, I asked in private: "what kind of gear are you using because you have a very low might duration". No answer.Start of W3, I got the answer:
http://i.imgur.com/Rcufi7G.jpg
It seems what you feel and think you can do counts more than hard data. The problem is when what you think does not compute with actual data.Who needs ArcDPS when you have a brain.

Shouldn't 1 druid be more then enough to cap the might?

What was that frost for 1 dps about tho seems a weird comment?

My guess is maybe having it in a condi based fight like sh or twins. So calling out theres only 1 power dps?

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@Squirrel.6318 said:

@Squirrel.6318 said:That kitten is ridiculous, as if the community wasn't elitist enough. Haven't been in a dungeon or raid or fractal in like 3 years because of how elitist they are.

I can't remember the last dungeon/fractal I ran where anyone said anything, and I didn't even get full ascended gear, a DPS meter, and mastery of my rotation until recently. Even before all of this, no one really ever said anything.

You're assuming a lot about the majority of the community. DPS meters aren't a problem, only the people behind them. Three or four years ago, we didn't even have DPS meters, yet some people were still elitist jerks as you describe.

Kinda makes it sound like meters were never the issue, huh?

Let me draw another parallel for you, which I made in a previous post you might not have seen. Your health bar is a meter that tracks your current health. Is it also toxic/elitist for other people to be able to see your health, just as they can see your damage? Is it wrong of them to want you to not stand in fire and dodge other avoidable mechanics so the dungeon/raid can be completed? Should we remove health bars along with DPS meters?

By the logic of people who hate DPS meters, every ounce of information that can be tracked and critiqued should be removed. At the end of that crusade, what will be left of the game?

(Lastly, there are enrage timers in raids. It is necessary in those cases to, on the fly, figure out what's going on if you're hitting enrage.)

Fair enough if someone wants to make it complicated. I don't play so serious, but I won't judge those who do... it's when they start complaining about other players when that's the problem. I don't really care about my teammates being "bad" as long as they are trying their best.

Honestly, I don't care about elitists, because I don't play with them anymore...I mean some people want to play serious, that's their choice. but ArenaNet should have like a more noob or casual friendly dungeon option for guys who just want to play the game, like "casual dungeon match making." I love dungeons in games, but in GW2, no thanks. And they expect you to know like every route and method to use. Like you're supposed to stand here, hug this wall, stay in this corner, they don't even tell you, it's like you're expected to know. I mean there are casual players that do dungeons but i've been playing since on and off release and have had a hard time finding a party that doesn't really care about builds and just wants to try the dungeon. I don't like this whole "raid training" stuff that guilds do as well. Can we not just wing it?

ArenaNet should try like a ranked dungeon/raid matchmaking thing for the more serious players.

I played GW1 and the dungeons there were not so strict, I mean yeah people wanted certain classes and builds but I would say half didn't care. I loved it. I was going through Urgoz Warren, The Deep, did the Nightfall end-game dungeons, like once a week. But in GW2 everyone is like "what build are you using, ping your outfit, get on discord..." hell I don't know this stuff, I just want to play the game. The discord thing I hate so much, it's not fun for me, power to those who like it, but it kills immersion for me. Yeah people used it in GW1, but I would say a good half of the community didn't, most parties I went in dungeons and missions didn't use it.

Having DPS meters just makes things worse for casual players I think. I think that's why a lot of us just avoid dungeons. It shouldn't be like that. But fair enough for serious players.

Ive pugged dungeons continuously since launch. Very few groups have cared about build or gear.

The DPS meter has made it easier for a broader variety of builds and professions to be accepted in higher tier fractals and the like than was the case before.

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