How would you redesign the revenant?

[Aeolus.3615]

On herald i would love to choose the players whom utilities would be atached to indiviadually, like the gw1 monk bond skills.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Lonami.2987" said:My issue isn't about power, but "unique abilities". What Kalla does now has nothing to do with what she possibly did in life. At least Shiro, Mallyx, and Jalis have unique magic you can't find anywhere else. I'd prefer if legends focused on special magic that can't be used by other professions. The character should serve the skills, not the other way around.

I dont feel that way about kalla honestly. I dont feel like the legends need to have unique magic to be worthy of being a legend for the profession. As i said it was exicuted poorly with the way the summon spirits work for kalla.

If they worked like stronger versions of mesmer phantasms they would have worked better off than the way they are implemented currently. Kalla was a leader and and a teacher as well as a master of tactical combat. She should be able to lead control over the battle field by using her warband spirits but they just dont perform up to the standard.

While im sure she had some kinds of magic within her its never talked about exactly what kind of magic she had.

• What we can look at currently in question to figure this out and how anet fluffed up so badly.

What disappoints me is that her statue shows her with a great sword and rev did not get a great sword as her weapon. As far as I know its NEVER talked about anything in regards to her or a shortbow so how that connection was made im not sure.

She was blood legion which likely makes her a warrior or a guardian of some sort of that nature which would also imply that her magic was used in one of the similar ways that warrior and guardians use their magic in the game today maybe a little different due to the time gap between then and the current time in the game.

At best for a shortbow the legend should have been one of her ancestorsVatlaaw DoomtoothPyre Fierceshot etc.

As both of them were confirmed to be rangers and could have used a long or a shortbow.

I don't think legends are race-locked, that's pretty arbitrary. It's not like there's more to choose from anyway.

Likely not but we have yet to see a legend repeat the same rase and chances are in the next xpack or two which will likely be all GW2 gets in its life time at most we wont see another of the same.

[Clownmug.8357]

I'd just reduce legend swap cooldown to 5 seconds. Suddenly all energy problems are solved and legends that aren't Shiro or Glint feel less risky to play.

[Lonami.2987]

@"Arkham Creed.7358" said:Here are my thoughts in detail. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28414/massive-revenant-rework-fan-concept

Interesting ideas there.

The problem with selectable weapon skills is that, you either end up with a gazillion skills (which will hurt balance, see elementalist's poor state due to this), or weapons themselves become meaningless (killing a big part of the game's personality).

I could see a spin for that, though. Let me elaborate:

• Weapon swap stays.
• Equipped weapons now determine slot skills instead of weapon skills. Main-hand weapons determine slot skills 6, 7, and 8. Off-hand weapons determine slot skills 9 and 0.
• Weapon skills are selected from a list, much like the other professions select slot skills. Your equipped weapons don't matter here.
• Legends have no impact on neither weapon nor slot skills. Now they're transformations, much like necromancer's Death Shroud.

So yeah, I just swapped weapon skills for slot skills. Sounds simple enough, but that would negate the aesthetic aspect of weapons to some point, right? Since you wouldn't be wielding them normally anymore.

A good solution for that is to wield them in a new manner, one that does not affect how you use them. How about floating weapons?

So, this new "revenant" would get into battle barehanded, with the weapons floating beside him instead. By moving his hands, the weapons would move and strike his enemies. Since they're now floating, weapon types don't matter that much anymore. It would be cool to have some unique skills now and then for each weapon type, but we can use the new weapon-based slot skills for that.

So, in summary:

• Skills 1-5 are selected manually from a list. Skill #1 is selected from an autoattack list, skills #2, #3, and #4 from a general list, and skill #5 from an "ultimate skill" list.
• Skills 6-8 are determined by the main-hand weapon. Skills 9-0 are determined by the off-hand weapon.
• Weapon swap affects skills 6-0, instead of skills 1-5.
• Legends no longer affect slot skills in any way whatsoever. Instead, they're now transformations, stored in F1 and F2. Activating a legend gives you a stat boost, and replaces skills 6-0 with new options.
• Weapons are visually represented by floating versions, three for each wielded weapon, floating besides the revenant, for a total of six floating weapons.
• Skills 1-5 would be weapon neutral, and do the same no matter what you're wielding. Skills 6-0 might use their respective floating weapons as part of their animations.
• If we're willing to let legends go as a mechanic, completely removing them, the new mechanic could focus on consuming one or multiple of the floating weapons, effectively using them as a resource, temporarily reducing attributes in exchange of a powerful attack or effect. For example, throw all your weapons at an enemy, doing a huge amount of damage, but remaining weak after that, waiting for the six floating weapons to respawn, or forcing you to swap to the other set.
• Ideally, the profession wouldn't use two-handed weapons at all, since they would be too big and clunky for the visuals.

I'm not sure this would fit very well with how the rest of the game is structured, but it's still something worth discussing, just for fun. Who knows, maybe it could work for a new 10th profession, an elite specialization, a special subprofession, or whatever.

@Ephemiel.5694 said:Revenant would become the most played class if it played at least half like that.

Thanks! Feel free to read the other redesign threads, you might like them as well =).

@ZDragon.3046 said:What disappoints me is that her statue shows her with a great sword and rev did not get a great sword as her weapon. As far as I know its NEVER talked about anything in regards to her or a shortbow so how that connection was made im not sure.

She was blood legion which likely makes her a warrior or a guardian of some sort of that nature which would also imply that her magic was used in one of the similar ways that warrior and guardians use their magic in the game today maybe a little different due to the time gap between then and the current time in the game.

At best for a shortbow the legend should have been one of her ancestorsVatlaaw DoomtoothPyre Fierceshot etc.

As both of them were confirmed to be rangers and could have used a long or a shortbow.

I agree with Kalla having a greatsword. Would have felt far better than the shortbow, that's for sure, and match the "leader rallying her troops" trope far better than "lol I stand behind pew pew".

@ZDragon.3046 said:Likely not but we have yet to see a legend repeat the same rase and chances are in the next xpack or two which will likely be all GW2 gets in its life time at most we wont see another of the same.

I think focusing on cool magic no other profession has is a better idea than just using famous characters with random abilities they never had in life, case in point, Kalla and her shortbow magic. The magical abilities and the gameplay should be more important than the lore name.

We have Flame Legion magic, ritualist magic, dervish magic, and much more than has no place in the rest of professions. That's the way to go, in my opinion. I couldn't care less about the race or gender of the future legends, as long as they bring cool new magic that isn't available to us.

[Orijah.3750]

@Lonami.2987 said:Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus some new elite specialization ideas to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

• Revenant: Every unique mechanic is gone, removed, so we're back to the basic state. The new mechanic is transformation. You equip two legends, in mechanic slots F1 and F2. Activating them transforms you for a period of time, giving you a new appearance and replacing your weapon skills. These legends are King Jalis Ironhammer, Shiro Tagachi, Warmarshal Varesh Ossa (replacing Mallyx), Ventari, and High Councillor Zinn (new 5th core legend). The transformation boosts various stats, pretty much like necromancer's Death Shroud (which would be removed during its own redesign). Slot skills work like any other profession's, and the transformation requires a new resource.

• Herald: New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 now contain two facets each, of which you can activate one at a time, by using the skill to swap between them. Their passive effect is permanently up, with no energy cost involved, so you can have the three of them permanently up. You gain a new legend, Glint, with her own transformation. When you transform to any legend, the facets' mechanic slots change to new skills, unique to each legend. Using these skills disables their facet slot (independently of which of the slot's two facets was currently active), and gives them a cooldown.

• Renegade: You gain a new legend, Kalla Scorchrazor. While transformed, you get three new minions accompanying you, unique to each legend, representing friends or guards of the legendary character, charging into battle by your side. The mechanic bar gets a minion control panel, using mechanic slots F3, F4, and F5, in a similar manner to the ranger's pet controls. These minions spawn with full health every time you transform, and disappear once the transformation is over or they die in combat.

• Ritualist: New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 can now be customized with various types of spirits. The same spirit type can be summoned multiple times. There's also a limit of how many spirits you can deploy at a time, 5 being the default maximum without traits. If you summon a new spirit beyond the limit, the oldest one will disappear. Spirits can be attacked and destroyed. The new slot skills provide further control options for the deployed spirits. You gain a new legend, Master Togo. The new spirit mechanic skills are not affected by the transformation.

• Hierophant: You gain a new legend, Imperator Bonfaaz Burntfur. While transformed, an artifact is summoned by your side, unique to each legend. Artifacts can be controlled by new mechanic skills in slots F3, F4, and F5. Artifacts can't be targeted or destroyed, and they replace the original Ventari's Tablet, removed after the core profession redesign. Glyphs are the new slot skill type, summoning minor artifacts while in normal mode, and providing further control options for the bigger artifacts while transformed. Artifacts disappear once the transformation is over or after using special skills, which can make them self-destroy.

• Stargazer: You gain a new legend, Asgeir Dragonrender. You can now equip a 3rd legend in mechanic slot F3. While transformed, you can consume the other two legends, empowering your current transformation's stats and skills, growing in size and power, but sacrificing your ability to stay to stay transformed longer by putting the consumed legends on cooldown. The new slot skills summon the power of the Spirits of the Wild to further empower your transformations.

Some amazing ideas.

I think the main issue is being so confined to the 6-0 skills when having a legend, even if you have two to swap too, the beauty of other professions is being able to pick and choose what is needed and what works best for the situation at hand. Sure you have those two sets of 6-0 skills but with a CD between and lack of choice overall. Remove the energy costs on those weapon skills, give rev a full set of 6-0 skills to choose. I think the core idea of transformation as mentioned a couple of times would feel beautiful, you'll already have a solid build and be able to mould your core skills as you wish. Being able to then invoke the power of a past character would be so much more satisfying.

I think the core rework is a beautiful idea from mr @Lonami.2987, I think the elite specs would be nicer to have some more interesting variations plus I've never been a huge fan of 'pet' builds. I think the general idea of the above rework though would be the perfect place to take rev to make it feel satisfying

[Israel.7056]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Add in some condi cleanse

Pretty much just start here. Also revert mallyx to how it worked in beta.

[lombomon.7268]

I do not think the Revenant needs a huge mechanical overhaul. Some traits need to be changed and some weapon/utility skills could use some energy adjustments but a huge redesign is not necessary in my opinion.

[Lonami.2987]

@Orijah.3750 said:

@"Lonami.2987" said:Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus

some new elite specialization ideas

to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

• Revenant:
  Every unique mechanic is gone, removed, so we're back to the basic state. The new mechanic is transformation. You equip two legends, in mechanic slots F1 and F2. Activating them transforms you for a period of time, giving you a new appearance and replacing your weapon skills. These legends are King Jalis Ironhammer, Shiro Tagachi, Warmarshal Varesh Ossa (replacing Mallyx), Ventari, and High Councillor Zinn (new 5th core legend). The transformation boosts various stats, pretty much like necromancer's Death Shroud (which would be removed during
  its own redesign
  ). Slot skills work like any other profession's, and the transformation requires a new resource.

• Herald:
  New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 now contain two facets each, of which you can activate one at a time, by using the skill to swap between them. Their passive effect is permanently up, with no energy cost involved, so you can have the three of them permanently up. You gain a new legend, Glint, with her own transformation. When you transform to any legend, the facets' mechanic slots change to new skills, unique to each legend. Using these skills disables their facet slot (independently of which of the slot's two facets was currently active), and gives them a cooldown.

• Renegade:
  You gain a new legend, Kalla Scorchrazor. While transformed, you get three new minions accompanying you, unique to each legend, representing friends or guards of the legendary character, charging into battle by your side. The mechanic bar gets a minion control panel, using mechanic slots F3, F4, and F5, in a similar manner to the ranger's pet controls. These minions spawn with full health every time you transform, and disappear once the transformation is over or they die in combat.

• Ritualist:
  New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 can now be customized with various types of spirits. The same spirit type can be summoned multiple times. There's also a limit of how many spirits you can deploy at a time, 5 being the default maximum without traits. If you summon a new spirit beyond the limit, the oldest one will disappear. Spirits can be attacked and destroyed. The new slot skills provide further control options for the deployed spirits. You gain a new legend, Master Togo. The new spirit mechanic skills are not affected by the transformation.

• Hierophant:
  You gain a new legend, Imperator Bonfaaz Burntfur. While transformed, an artifact is summoned by your side, unique to each legend. Artifacts can be controlled by new mechanic skills in slots F3, F4, and F5. Artifacts can't be targeted or destroyed, and they replace the original Ventari's Tablet, removed after the core profession redesign. Glyphs are the new slot skill type, summoning minor artifacts while in normal mode, and providing further control options for the bigger artifacts while transformed. Artifacts disappear once the transformation is over or after using special skills, which can make them self-destroy.

• Stargazer:
  You gain a new legend, Asgeir Dragonrender. You can now equip a 3rd legend in mechanic slot F3. While transformed, you can consume the other two legends, empowering your current transformation's stats and skills, growing in size and power, but sacrificing your ability to stay to stay transformed longer by putting the consumed legends on cooldown. The new slot skills summon the power of the Spirits of the Wild to further empower your transformations.

Some amazing ideas.

I think the main issue is being so confined to the 6-0 skills when having a legend, even if you have two to swap too, the beauty of other professions is being able to pick and choose what is needed and what works best for the situation at hand. Sure you have those two sets of 6-0 skills but with a CD between and lack of choice overall. Remove the energy costs on those weapon skills, give rev a full set of 6-0 skills to choose. I think the core idea of transformation as mentioned a couple of times would feel beautiful, you'll already have a solid build and be able to mould your core skills as you wish. Being able to then invoke the power of a past character would be so much more satisfying.

I think the core rework is a beautiful idea from mr @"Lonami.2987", I think the elite specs would be nicer to have some more interesting variations plus I've never been a huge fan of 'pet' builds. I think the general idea of the above rework though would be the perfect place to take rev to make it feel satisfying

I think they had a checklist of things, including GW1 nostalgia, energy management, no weapon swap... And they just glued all of them together. The result was less than "adequate". The profession would have been better as some sort of GW1 monk, ritualist, and dervish fusion, but too late for that. I tried to salvage the "forbidden schools of magic" aspect of legends, while giving them a more prominent presence (actual transformations, instead of slot swaps).

Anyway, glad you liked it. Feel free to check my other redesign threads, links at my signature.

@Israel.7056 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Add in some condi cleanse

Pretty much just start here. Also revert mallyx to how it worked in beta.

Revenants wouldn't have this problem if they had a normal slot skill system.

[Dace.8173]

@lombomon.7268 said:I do not think the Revenant needs a huge mechanical overhaul. Some traits need to be changed and some weapon/utility skills could use some energy adjustments but a huge redesign is not necessary in my opinion.

I always arch an eyebrow when I see a thread that requires a mechanical overhaul of a profession. Makes me wonder why they are playing it in the first place if they want to pretty much replace it with a brand new profession.

[Caeledh.5437]

@lombomon.7268 said:I do not think the Revenant needs a huge mechanical overhaul. Some traits need to be changed and some weapon/utility skills could use some energy adjustments but a huge redesign is not necessary in my opinion.

Yeah there's a very solid foundation. It just needs tweaking.

eg. simply redesigning the Corruption traits would instantly double the profession's appeal to players like me who don't like cooldowns.

Shiro is good. Excluding the self-heal, only two active skills with cooldowns and they're both a short 5s. Only two traits with cooldowns and both can simply not be used.

Mallyx looks good at first glance. There aren't any cooldowns on his skills. But then you look at the traits and most have cooldowns. They're unavoidable.

• Change Diabolic Inferno from 2 stacks of burning of 4s duration on an 8s cooldown to 1 stack of burning of 2s duration with no cooldown.
• Change Maniacal Persistence to have no cooldown but consume a small amount of energy to inflict its torment.

Jalis isn't too bad. But I would tweak it slightly.

• Increase the energy cost and decrease the cooldown for Forced Engagement.

Ventari is pretty good. The two 5s cooldowns aren't too restrictive and the 2s and 3s cooldowns are almost nothing. There's only two traits with cooldowns and they can easily be not used.

Glint just needs to change the activatable facets to consume energy rather than put the facet on cooldown.

Kalla is probably the worst. Only one skill without a cooldown and those cooldowns are all over 10s. Simply converting those skills to be maintains like Soulcleave's Summit would be an immense improvement.

One higher level improvement - tweak the energy mechanic. To accomodate players who don't want to manically switch legend every 10s for 50 energy, give revenants an energy regen buff after 20s of remaining in a legend without swapping.

Those changes would have me playing GW2 again.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

One of the reasons I love the Revenant is because of the energy system. I love having low cooldowns on skills. I mained thief for a while because of its similarity. I think that Charged Mists being the primary energy-manipulating mechanic is fine as there is sacrifice and smart play that must be used in order to profit from it (I still do believe the threshold should be raised a bit, though).

However, the other energy-manipulating mechanic I have suggested is to have a minor trait in Salvation reduce the energy/upkeep cost of heal skills reduced by 100%. I would argue that Ventari (or more specifically, a healing build) has the least amount of synergy with other legends, and this alone would make camping Ventari much more viable. It is pretty clear that legends aren't meant to be camped, but I do feel that Ventari is a bit of an exception to that because so much of our healing is dependent on the legend. I do really like the idea, but I don't honestly know if I fully believe in it. I am clearly biased in my position on this, so I may be projecting a greedy desire.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I would make the legend skills be less hyper focused and be able to fit in multiple types of builds. I would like to be able to use Ventari and the Salvation trait line for sustain along with a power or condi build, but it doesn't fit well in anything but a full on healing build. I would like to have access to mobility outside of shiro and glint. I would like the weapon skills to have more going on than just damage. It bums me out that our dps comes from our aa, and then every weapon skill we have is a damage skill that isn't as good as the aa chain. This makes you end up using skills like sword 3 and hammer 3 for defense and they are just lackuster. The overall combat theme of the class is spread all over the place and it makes build diversity really lackluster because nothing synergizes well.

With that said, I still think rev is one of the more fun professions. Because of the issues I listed above, rev has access to some unorthodox skills that are fun to use and the skill design allows for some in-combat flexibility.

[lordbachus.6091]

Revenant redesign?

I think basically the class systems, abilities and traits are okay, not great but okay(I really like the visuals and the basic ideas behind the class)

There are however few things they could improve..

1) energy managementI am wishing for a more builder spender system, so you can stay in the same legend if you opt to..-every mob you hit generates 1 extra energy on top of the 5/seccomd-switching legends, gives you 50 extra energy..

• out of combat you either gain or loose 5 energy/sec untill you are at 50.
• Traits that allow for gaining more energy..Offcourse this takes some ballancing in skills and traits..But this mechanic can feel much much more fluent when done rightIf done right, it would even allow for removal of the cd’s on weapon skills..

2)build diversityTo give players a bit more influence on their builds, they should add some skills

• a set of basic skills that you can use in all legends.. 2 healing, 3 utillity and 1 elite
• 2 extra utillity skills/legend..this would give you enough room to make some basic changes to how a legend plays.You would have choice out of 3 healing, 8 utillity and 2 elite skills for every legend.

3) healin skills..

• would share the same CD 15 secconds.. this would ballance things much more with other classes.This would be the only Cd of the profession

Keep in mind, that i still think the current state is reasonable fun..But it could be improved hugely by these changes

[Lonami.2987]

As I've said before, these redesign threads are an iterative process. Sometimes the best way to get a good idea for a profession is to redesign the others first, and I think I finally have something solid enough for our little blind fella.

One of the distinctive mechanics of the revenant is the Legendary Stance, which lets you swap between two predetermined sets of slot skills. You gain access to 10 slot skills, instead of 5, but the customization suffers way too much. In previous ideas, I've suggested removing this mechanic altogether, but now I'm going to try a halfway solution, by giving revenant a normal slot skill system, and turning the Legendary Stances into some sort of "slot skill kits".

---

Revenant

• The overall themes of the profession have been adjusted. You no longer channel legendary characters from the Mists, instead you just use their magic arts without any direct interaction. The effect palette has been modified as well, moving away from black/red colors into gray/white.
• Legendary Stances have been replaced by Spellbooks. These are no longer permanently up, and need to be manually activated, much like kits or transformations. Activating a spellbook replaces your slot skills with five new predetermined slot skills, boosts your attributes, and modifies your effect palette. Base slot skills are now individually selected from a list, much like those of every other profession.
• Energy has been removed altogether. To prevent spellbook abuse, using a slot skill applies half the cooldown to the other skills in the same slot, meaning you cannot spam one elite skill right after another, but you are still encouraged to swap back and forth. Weapon skill cooldowns have been adjusted as well.
• Each spellbook has a dedicated combat role. There are four spellbooks to choose from, and you can equip two at once, using mechanic slots F1 and F2. Each spellbook modifies the effect palette using different colors. This change does not affect gameplay in any way whatsoever, being exclusively aesthetic.
• The first spellbook is the Tome of the Rubicon, containing dwarven protection magic, designated for damage prevention, both direct and conditions. The effect palette switches to light blues. The elite skill is the Rite of the Great Dwarf, making nearby allies completelly invulnerable to damage and crowd control for 5 seconds.
• The second spellbook is the Apocrypha, containing offensive margonite magic, designated for condition damage. The effect palette switches to purples. The elite skill is the Nightfall, inflicting confusion and torment against enemies inside its area of effect, lasting 10 seconds.
• The third spellbook is the Jade Crystal Ball, containing offensive jade magic, designated for direct damage. The effect palette switches to dark greens. The elite skill is the Jade Wind, stunning nearby enemies for 3 seconds.
• The fourth spellbook is Ventari's Tablet, containing shamanistic centaur magic, designated for support and healing. The effect palette switches to yellow/green. The elite skill is the Awakening, healing and reviving nearby allies.
• The following weapons have been unlocked: Main-hand Axe, off-hand Mace, Focus, and Torch.
• The following slot skills have been unlocked: Consecrations (replacing Ventari), Corruption (replacing Mallyx), Physical (replacing Jalis), Signets, and Tricks (replacing Shiro). These new slot skills are not connected to any legend or their magic arts, they are generic revenant arts.
• Base health gained per level has been decreased, from a total of 5,922 to 1,645, leaving revenant in the bottom health tier. This reduction can be compensated through the attribute boost provided by spellbook activation.

Herald

• Auras have been repurposed as a new type of effect, and renamed as Wards. Like other effects, wards have a limited duration and a number of stacks. The active effect of a ward only triggers when you receive direct damage, consuming one stack every time until you run out of them, in which case the ward effect is removed. Hard crowd control effects can be used to remove multiple ward stacks at once without triggering the active effects.
• Facets have been renamed as Auras. New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 contain auras now. Use once to activate the passive effect (Aura), and again to consume it and trigger an active skill (Overload). Auras are only available upon spellbook activation, and each spellbook has a different set of auras.
• F3 applies an offensive boon on passive, and triggers a targeted pulsating combo finisher on active.
• F4 applies a defensive boon on passive, and triggers a targeted pulsating combo field on active.
• F5 applies a ward on passive, and triggers a targeted pulsating area of effect attack on active.
• New spellbook: Flameseeker Prophecies, containing supportive dragon magic, designated for boon management. The effect palette switches to cyan/yellow. Spellbok skills 7, 8, and 9 contain additional auras, aside from those at F3, F4, and F5 (somewhat replicating the six original facets). Spellbook healing skill 6 consumes all active auras, healing more for each one consumed. Spellbook elite skill 0 consumes all active auras, sending a shockwave against nearby enemies, dealing more damage for each consumed aura.
• New weapon: Shield.
• New slot skills: Wells.

Renegade

• Spellbooks now unlock Marks upon activation. Cast a mark upon an enemy target, afflicting him with a negative effect that makes him more vulnerable to your attacks. Marking an enemy target unlocks marked skills in mechanic slots F3, F4, and F5. Each spellbook has a different set of marked skills.
• New spellbook: Kalla's Manifesto, containing offensive magic, specially effective against marked targets. The effect palette switches to oranges. The elite skill applies stun break and stealth to nearby allies.
• New weapon: Short Bow.
• New slot skills: Gadgets.

---

If you've checked the other profession redesign threads, you'll know my primary goal is to normalize core mechanics, and build elite specializations from a dual profession viewpoint, mechanic-wise. Herald uses auras, the new guardian core mechanic (in turn inspired by the original herald facets), and renegade uses marks, the new thief core mechanic inspired by the deadeye.

Some new elite specialization ideas to see how the changes could affect them, based on the new core mechanics of mesmer, revenant itself, and ranger:

---

Hierophant

• Spellbooks now unlock Summon Echo upon activation, letting you summon the spellbooks themselves into the real space. Any spellbook skills you use will be replicated by the physical spellbooks. You can summon up to three echoes for every spellbook. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 provide additional echo skills, unique for each spellbook. The defunct Ventari's Table object mechanic would make a return here.
• New spellbook: Cauldron of Cataclysm, containing offensive Flame Legion magic. The effect palette switches to reds. The elite skill is The Searing, dealing a lot of damage over time.
• New weapon: Relic.
• New slot skills: Mantras.

Ritualist

• Revenants can now carry five spellbooks at once, using mechanic skills F1, F2, F3, F4, and F5. Shared cooldowns still apply, but can be reduced by constantly rotating between the five different spellboks.
• New spellbook: The Tengu Accords, containing spirit control options. The effect palette switches to cyans.
• New weapon: Scepter.
• New slot skills: Spirits, similar to engineer turrets.

Stargazer

• Spellbooks now unlock Summon Beast upon activation, summoning a friendly companion to fight by your side. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 provide basic beast control options. The beasts are: Stone Golem for Tome of the Rubicon, Graven Monolith for the Apocrypha, Shiro'ken for Jade Crystal Ball, White Stag for Ventari's Tablet, and Owl Spirit for the Scroll of the Wild. Beasts don't disappear once you swap out of their spellbook, but summoning a new beast will replace the previous one.
• New Spellbook: Scroll of the Wild, containing Spirits of the Wild magic with good beast synergy. The effect palette switches to yellows.
• New weapon: Greatsword.
• New slot skills: Enchantments, similar to thief venoms. Good synergy with beasts.

---

After so many redesign ideas, I think this is my favorite by far. If you think the skill numbers are ridiculous (5 from the spellbook, and 6 from the slot skills), don't forget that engineer already works this way, the tool belt doubling the amount of slot skills to be developed with every elite specialization (6 slot skills, and 6 tool belt skills).

Still, remember this thread is just for fun, so feel free to post any ideas you have, even if you believe there's no way they could be happening.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

I wouldn't. Rev is one of the few classes in the game with PvP meta specs that are both fun to play as and against. It's a good design overall.

The only problem with it is anet balances it too hard around shiro/glint. This is bad because it means Rev becomes trash tier in any meta where shiro/glint can't be played due to the fact that rev doesn't get to pick and choose utilities in the same way other classes do, making it much harder to adjust to the meta. The solution to this is to just buff all the other legends so they are actually playable in their respective meta. Leave Shiro and Glint alone, they are well designed and fine as is. Instead just find ways to make Mallyx/Jalis/Ventari/Kalla more playable in WvW and sPvP.

Various fixes such as:-Mallyx gets better built in resistance or an evade-Jalis no longer gets screwed by retaliation for no reason ( I mean just make vengeful hammers not proc it? )-Ventari either gets some mobility or just heals allies for more. All forms of ventari specs are currently a poor mans Firebrand.-Kalla spirits should just provide more utility or cast much faster in PvP modesWould go a long way to preventing Rev from entering F-tier as soon as Shiro or Glint becomes countered by the meta.

TL;DR the tradeoff for not getting to pick and choose utilities should be that the class is balanced so other legends actually provide options instead of jokes.

[Skyroar.2974]

I don't think revenant needs a rework so big that would make it completely unrecognizable. Not to mention that Anet would never commit to something like that.

The biggest design problem with Revenant (from a PvE perspective) is that the energy mechanic is not working as well as intended. There are many reasons that contribute to this:

1. You need to swap legends if you want your energy back. This means you cannot stay in a legend for more than 10 seconds without costing you valuable dps, and that swapping weapons usually requires you to swap legends as well.
2. DPS upkeep skills are too valuable, so you're required to activate them all the time and you'll always be watching your energy degenerating. When the upkeep costs are too high, you'll be an auto-attack bot. When they are not, you have more freedom to use other skills, but are always under pressure from energy degen.
3. Too many key presses to do basic actions that any other profession can do with a single key, due to a combination of the two problems above. Want to swap legends? You have to activate the new upkeep as well. Want to swap weapons? You have to swap legends and activate the new upkeep. Want to swap to Glint? Have fun activating 3-4 upkeeps. Again.

Fixing problems #1 and #2 would therefore fix/ tone down problem #3 and make the profession's playstyle more streamlined.

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

Rev doesn't need a major overhaul.
Rev needs more utility skills and each legend needs an F2 - especially Venturi. Venturi F2 would stow the tablet and make it a selfish version or a group. Then the traits would have a "does this while stowed and this while not stowed".

If there was a major change. The only major thing I would change, would be changing the glint utilities to a signet/ammo variant. Then renegade would be more like how glint currently works.

[Kain Francois.4328]

I'll keep my post short and simple.

Alter weapon skills depending on legend equipped. Like the Trident.

Done.

[Jimbru.6014]

Simplify legends.

• Change the balance of energy gain and upkeep so that you can camp in one legend if you like instead of constantly juggling two.
• Give us a button bar with all the legends, like Elementalists have for their four elements.

Teach Kalla and her warband to swim so renegade works underwater.

Get rid of the shmancy ground graphics on Herald. We have enough graphic overload issues in the game already.

Go to SC or Metabattle and look at the rotation on condi renegades. It's hideous. No class or spec should ever have rotations that long and complex. Fix that.

[Dace.8173]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:I don't think revenant needs a rework so big that would make it completely unrecognizable. Not to mention that Anet would never commit to something like that.

The biggest design problem with Revenant (from a PvE perspective) is that the energy mechanic is not working as well as intended. There are many reasons that contribute to this:

1. You need to swap legends if you want your energy back. This means you cannot stay in a legend for more than 10 seconds without costing you valuable dps, and that swapping weapons usually requires you to swap legends as well.
2. DPS upkeep skills are too valuable, so you're required to activate them all the time and you'll always be watching your energy degenerating. When the upkeep costs are too high, you'll be an auto-attack bot. When they are not, you have more freedom to use other skills, but are always under pressure from energy degen.
3. Too many key presses to do basic actions that any other profession can do with a single key, due to a combination of the two problems above. Want to swap legends? You have to activate the new upkeep as well. Want to swap weapons? You have to swap legends and activate the new upkeep. Want to swap to Glint? Have fun activating 3-4 upkeeps. Again.

Fixing problems #1 and #2 would therefore fix/ tone down problem #3 and make the profession's playstyle more streamlined.

Legend swapping is kinda the point. Folks always complain about Energy and needing to swap Legends but that's the mechanic. I don't find that the Energy mechanic doesn't work as intended. I think that folks don't really jive with the mechanic. For instance, you can stay in a Legend for more than 10 seconds and not lose DPS. You can swap Legends and not need to swap weapons. Just requires you to manage your Energy properly. The upkeep skill thing is a matter of managing your resources. It really isn't an issue. For starters, Shiro is really the only one you are going to spend a lot of time using the upkeep for DPS. Mallyx and Kalla upkeeps are elite skills and you are not as likely to depend on them for your DPS. Jalis upkeep is a defensive skill, as is Ventari. That leaves us with Glint. However, Glint's upkeeps are not meant to be camped for DPS effect. You pop into Glints upkeeps for the boons and then pop out for the additional effect it gives you. So not a big DPS drain there. They shouldn't be giving you a problem unless you are camping them. Revenant hurts folks who want to camp their skills and Legends. If you're not camping though these issues aren't as pronounced. Which is why I think the mechanic is less an issue and more that players would rather camp Legends and skills which isn't the design philosophy involved. Energy can be improved but trying to improve it so that you can stay in Legends and upkeeps longer would mean moving Revenant away from what they were creating.

Also, too many key presses? This is really no different than making Engineer or Elementalist work.

As always, I think most redesigns are less about keeping the profession that was created and more or less turning it into something you would rather play.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Retribution changes from last patch were a step in the right direction. Core revenant, while not to the level of most/any meta specs, feels a lot better to play. Some more polish to the core class would be very welcome. IMO Salvation needs it most now to diversify it beyond healing modifier traits.

[Skyroar.2974]

@Dace.8173 said:

Legend swapping is kinda the point. Folks always complain about Energy and needing to swap Legends but that's the mechanic. I don't find that the Energy mechanic doesn't work as intended. I think that folks don't really jive with the mechanic. For instance, you can stay in a Legend for more than 10 seconds and not lose DPS. You can swap Legends and not need to swap weapons. Just requires you to manage your Energy properly. The upkeep skill thing is a matter of managing your resources. It really isn't an issue. For starters, Shiro is really the only one you are going to spend a lot of time using the upkeep for DPS. Mallyx and Kalla upkeeps are elite skills and you are not as likely to depend on them for your DPS. Jalis upkeep is a defensive skill, as is Ventari. That leaves us with Glint. However, Glint's upkeeps are not meant to be camped for DPS effect. You pop into Glints upkeeps for the boons and then pop out for the additional effect it gives you. So not a big DPS drain there. They shouldn't be giving you a problem unless you are camping them. Revenant hurts folks who want to camp their skills and Legends. If you're not camping though these issues aren't as pronounced. Which is why I think the mechanic is less an issue and more that players would rather camp Legends and skills which isn't the design philosophy involved. Energy can be improved but trying to improve it so that you can stay in Legends and upkeeps longer would mean moving Revenant away from what they were creating.

Also, too many key presses? This is really no different than making Engineer or Elementalist work.

As always, I think most redesigns are less about keeping the profession that was created and more or less turning it into something you would rather play.

I know legend swapping for energy is the point, but as you've said yourself, it's not a very well-liked mechanic. We should change legends because we need their utility, not because we're forced to. If I am DPSing with Shiro, I only want to switch to Jalis if I need the extra defense. If I am bombarding enemies with Mallyx, I should only switch to Kalla if I need additional healing/ interruption/ party buffing. But that's not what usually happens. Players are forced to swap legends because they have no choice. It's either that or playing with 0 energy.

Upkeep skills are the main contribution to that. Legends that rely less on their upkeeps are usually less pressuring to play. For example, if you don't need healing and are roaming PvE solo, Kalla is pretty decent to camp at, because you can use your cc or damage spirits and still have your energy regenerate fast enough to add in Citadel Bombardment and your weapon skills. Only if you need to recover your health will you use (the heal skill plus) Soulcleaver, usually alongside another multi-hit skill, and then be forced to swap to another legend - which is fine, because you've made that choice yourself.

I don't play with Ventari to know how it feels like, but every other legend plays like a timed clock: after the timer's over, you're useless until you swap.

About the many key presses, as a Revenant, you're pressing a lot of keys before even doing anything worthwhile. Engineer and elementalist's keys are all tied to active skills, besides kit swapping. With the Revenant, swapping to a new legend almost always requires you to mindlessly activat your upkeep skill, and swapping to a new weapon most often requires you to swap legends (and therefore activate your upkeeps) again. Do you want to swap to staff for some additional defense, but are without energy? Have fun pressing F1 + upkeep as well or, if you're swapping to Glint, to press F1 + 3-4 upkeeps before even start using your staff skills. It's just not streamlined. For example, Ventari used to have a similar problem: each time you swapped to it, you would need to manually create the tablet, meaning that swapping required 2 button presses. But Anet streamlined it so that the tablet spawns automatically, and it feels much better now.

I don't think whatever solutions for the problems I've listed would require Anet to transform Revenant into something entirely different. Quite the contrary, they would mostly be QoL balance/ design changes for a profession that, design-wise, feels a bit rough and clumsy at some spots.

[Dace.8173]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

I know legend swapping for energy is the point, but as you've said yourself, it's not a very well-liked mechanic.

Yeah, it being a well-liked mechanic doesn't really have much relevance. It's part of the profession's theme and playstyle. I think folks not liking it is misguided as its one of the things that make Revenant so fun. Someone once said that folks like the profession's flavor but hate its mechanics and I think that bears out with how folks want to redo Revenant into a completely new profession.

We should change legends because we need their utility, not because we're forced to. If I am DPSing with Shiro, I only want to switch to Jalis if I need the extra defense. If I am bombarding enemies with Mallyx, I should only switch to Kalla if I need additional healing/ interruption/ party buffing. But that's not what usually happens. Players are forced to swap legends because they have no choice. It's either that or playing with 0 energy.

You can stay DPSing in Shiro if you want to. It requires you to manage your Energy accordingly. I really feel this is a L2P issue. Instead of figuring out how to manage your Energy in order to remain in the Legend you want longer you want to change the Legend system so you can camp in a profession that isn't built around that concept. Most people don't want to learn Revenant. Instead, they want it changed to allow them to do things they could already do if they managed their Energy better.

Upkeep skills are the main contribution to that. Legends that rely less on their upkeeps are usually less pressuring to play. For example, if you don't need healing and are roaming PvE solo, Kalla is pretty decent to camp at, because you can use your cc or damage spirits and still have your energy regenerate fast enough to add in Citadel Bombardment and your weapon skills. Only if you need to recover your health will you use (the heal skill plus) Soulcleaver, usually alongside another multi-hit skill, and then be forced to swap to another legend - which is fine, because you've made that choice yourself.

Yeah, upkeeps aren't a major contribution to that. This is really only relevant for Power Herald that uses Glint/Shiro. Even then, Glint is meant to be brief, you drop in pop 1 to 3 upkeeps and then consume them for their extra effect. In most cases, you really only need two. Jalis, Mallyx, and Kalla don't really require you to be in their upkeeps to get the most out of their damage. Ventari isn't a DPS guy soooo. However, if you want to camp Kalla in PvE then manage your Energy better. I camp Kalla or Mallyx all the time in PvE with no issues related to having enough Energy to do what I need to do. In PvP I tend to spend more time in Glint than I do Shiro. Again, I work at managing my Energy.

I don't play with Ventari to know how it feels like, but every other legend plays like a timed clock: after the timer's over, you're useless until you swap.

Hmmmmm, I don't play Ventari much either. However, I also don't have this whole timed clock thing either. I play very aggressive and I really don't have issues with not being able to do what I need to when I need to. I read these complaints about the Legend swap and it is simply not the experience I have. I find the transition to be very smooth.

About the many key presses, as a Revenant, you're pressing a lot of keys before even doing anything worthwhile. Engineer and elementalist's keys are all tied to active skills, besides kit swapping. With the Revenant, swapping to a new legend almost always requires you to mindlessly activat your upkeep skill, and swapping to a new weapon most often requires you to swap legends (and therefore activate your upkeeps) again.

Requirement is a bit of a stretch there. You don't need to swap your weapon after a Legend swap. Power Herald, our only competitive PvP build, runs sword/sword and staff and at no point when I'm swapping between Glint and Shiro do I need to also swap my weapons. I only swap into staff when I actually need one of its support functions, IE I want to swiftly cleanse some conditions, reflect rifle fire from a Deadeye coming at me, or gap closing/evading. I run Kalla/Mallyx in PvE content and go with mace/axe and shortbow. When I'm swapping between Kalla and Mallyx I'm also not changing my weapons. I only change them when I actually want to move from ranged to melee or melee to range. It's not an automatic thing. Also, mindlessly activating upkeep skills? I don't know about you but I only need Impossible Odds when I'm actually attacking and it's not an automatic thing that when I switch into Shiro that's the first thing I need to do. I may need to evade back or shadowstep to someone but Impossible Odds is not just an automatic click. That's how you waste Energy. When I'm in Glint I don't mindlessly pop those upkeeps. I think about what I need and act accordingly. Do I need to heal or am I expecting a burst? Do I need to move between capture points? Do I need Fury and/or Might right now? Activing Glint upkeeps by rote is, again, how you find yourself wasting Energy. Everything I do when I swap Legends is worthwhile. You might have a point on upkeep if it wasn't for the fact that outside of Glint, you only have one upkeep you need to activate. You swap into Shiro and the only upkeep you are going to need to worry about is Impossible Odds. When I'm running with Kalla and Mallyx my upkeeps are typically not the first things I activate as in most situations I don't need them right away. Their upkeeps are elite skills and I use them as any other elite skill, when I will get the most out of them and not as an auto move.

If you are pressing a lot of keys and not getting anything worthwhile out of it then the issue here is not Revenant. Revenant is not a "mash all the keys" profession and playing it like one will lead to all kinds of Energy problems.

Do you want to swap to staff for some additional defense, but are without energy? Have fun pressing F1 + upkeep as well or, if you're swapping to Glint, to press F1 + 3-4 upkeeps before even start using your staff skills.

Never had this problem. Also, why are you activating all your upkeeps on Glint at once? This is why you are without Energy. You're just activating stuff, likely when you don't need to. Revenant isn't a "mash all the keys" profession. When you go into Glint you typically do not need to activate 3 to 4 upkeeps right away.

It's just not streamlined.

Not really convinced of this, at least not in the way you are speaking of. The way you describe your issues it really comes off as you just aren't playing Revenant very well. You seem overreliant on weapon swaps (don't need them when you change Legends) and upkeep skills (activating all of them as one of the first things you do when you enter the Legend). If you didn't hit all your Utilities when you enter a new Legend you'd find you have a lot more Energy. Hell, Glint lets you run 3 upkeeps at once before taking a hit to your Energy from them and so it is insanely easy to camp Glint if you aren't trying to use all of her powers at once. However, not every Legend swap requires the activation of new upkeeps. Ignoring for the moment that it's only one skill in most cases you simply do not always need it on that swap. There is no logical reason for Impossible Odds to be the first thing you do when you enter Shiro unless you are already engaged in combat and need the pressure. However you can swap into Shiro and may need to roll backward first (not an upkeep), may need to heal first while maintaining pressure (not an upkeep), or shadowstep to an oppenent (not an upkeep). Revenant play simply does not require you to be using your upkeep skills as much as you seem to be indicating (Glint is the exception of course).

I don't think whatever solutions for the problems I've listed would require Anet to transform Revenant into something entirely different. Quite the contrary, they would mostly be QoL balance/ design changes for a profession that, design-wise, feels a bit rough and clumsy at some spots.

QoL is questionable since most of your issues are easily solvable with better Energy management. I suspect that if ANet did as you wanted, making it possible to stay in a Legend longer, as an example, they would rebalance Energy costs. I'm willing to bet most people would not like the new Energy costs. This is something folks seem to forget, current Energy costs are balanced around current mechanics. You change things around so that you have more Energy overall or are able to camp a Legend longer and you'll see higher CDs on the powers that have them and an overall uptick in Energy cost to balance the extra Energy.

[Opopanax.1803]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:One of the reasons I love the Revenant is because of the energy system. I love having low cooldowns on skills. I mained thief for a while because of its similarity. I think that Charged Mists being the primary energy-manipulating mechanic is fine as there is sacrifice and smart play that must be used in order to profit from it (I still do believe the threshold should be raised a bit, though).

However, the other energy-manipulating mechanic I have suggested is to have a minor trait in Salvation reduce the energy/upkeep cost of heal skills reduced by 100%. I would argue that Ventari (or more specifically, a healing build) has the least amount of synergy with other legends, and this alone would make camping Ventari much more viable. It is pretty clear that legends aren't meant to be camped, but I do feel that Ventari is a bit of an exception to that because so much of our healing is dependent on the legend. I do really like the idea, but I don't honestly know if I fully believe in it. I am clearly biased in my position on this, so I may be projecting a greedy desire.

This would help Ventari, but it would likely become a mandatory trait. You'd have to do something to make it not mandatory... or roll it into a minor trait.

[Lonami.2987]

@"Lonami.2987" said:As I've said before, these redesign threads are an iterative process. Sometimes the best way to get a good idea for a profession is to redesign the others first, and I think I finally have something solid enough for our little blind fella.

One of the distinctive mechanics of the revenant is the Legendary Stance, which lets you swap between two predetermined sets of slot skills. You gain access to 10 slot skills, instead of 5, but the customization suffers way too much. In previous ideas, I've suggested removing this mechanic altogether, but now I'm going to try a halfway solution, by giving revenant a normal slot skill system, and turning the Legendary Stances into some sort of "slot skill kits".

---

Revenant

• The overall themes of the profession have been adjusted. You no longer channel legendary characters from the Mists, instead you just use their magic arts without any direct interaction. The effect palette has been modified as well, moving away from black/red colors into gray/white.
• Legendary Stances have been replaced by Spellbooks. These are no longer permanently up, and need to be manually activated, much like kits or transformations. Activating a spellbook replaces your slot skills with five new predetermined slot skills, boosts your attributes, and modifies your effect palette. Base slot skills are now individually selected from a list, much like those of every other profession.
• Energy has been removed altogether. To prevent spellbook abuse, using a slot skill applies half the cooldown to the other skills in the same slot, meaning you cannot spam one elite skill right after another, but you are still encouraged to swap back and forth. Weapon skill cooldowns have been adjusted as well.
• Each spellbook has a dedicated combat role. There are four spellbooks to choose from, and you can equip two at once, using mechanic slots F1 and F2. Each spellbook modifies the effect palette using different colors. This change does not affect gameplay in any way whatsoever, being exclusively aesthetic.
• The first spellbook is the Tome of the Rubicon, containing dwarven protection magic, designated for damage prevention, both direct and conditions. The effect palette switches to light blues. The elite skill is the Rite of the Great Dwarf, making nearby allies completelly invulnerable to damage and crowd control for 5 seconds.
• The second spellbook is the Apocrypha, containing offensive margonite magic, designated for condition damage. The effect palette switches to purples. The elite skill is the Nightfall, inflicting confusion and torment against enemies inside its area of effect, lasting 10 seconds.
• The third spellbook is the Jade Crystal Ball, containing offensive jade magic, designated for direct damage. The effect palette switches to dark greens. The elite skill is the Jade Wind, stunning nearby enemies for 3 seconds.
• The fourth spellbook is Ventari's Tablet, containing shamanistic centaur magic, designated for support and healing. The effect palette switches to yellow/green. The elite skill is the Awakening, healing and reviving nearby allies.
• The following weapons have been unlocked: Main-hand Axe, off-hand Mace, Focus, and Torch.
• The following slot skills have been unlocked: Consecrations (replacing Ventari), Corruption (replacing Mallyx), Physical (replacing Jalis), Signets, and Tricks (replacing Shiro). These new slot skills are not connected to any legend or their magic arts, they are generic revenant arts.
• Base health gained per level has been decreased, from a total of 5,922 to 1,645, leaving revenant in the bottom health tier. This reduction can be compensated through the attribute boost provided by spellbook activation.

Herald

• Auras have been repurposed as a new type of effect, and renamed as Wards. Like other effects, wards have a limited duration and a number of stacks. The active effect of a ward only triggers when you receive direct damage, consuming one stack every time until you run out of them, in which case the ward effect is removed. Hard crowd control effects can be used to remove multiple ward stacks at once without triggering the active effects.
• Facets have been renamed as Auras. New mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 contain auras now. Use once to activate the passive effect (Aura), and again to consume it and trigger an active skill (Overload). Auras are only available upon spellbook activation, and each spellbook has a different set of auras.
• F3 applies an offensive boon on passive, and triggers a targeted pulsating combo finisher on active.
• F4 applies a defensive boon on passive, and triggers a targeted pulsating combo field on active.
• F5 applies a ward on passive, and triggers a targeted pulsating area of effect attack on active.
• New spellbook: Flameseeker Prophecies, containing supportive dragon magic, designated for boon management. The effect palette switches to cyan/yellow. Spellbok skills 7, 8, and 9 contain additional auras, aside from those at F3, F4, and F5 (somewhat replicating the six original facets). Spellbook healing skill 6 consumes all active auras, healing more for each one consumed. Spellbook elite skill 0 consumes all active auras, sending a shockwave against nearby enemies, dealing more damage for each consumed aura.
• New weapon: Shield.
• New slot skills: Wells.

Renegade

• Spellbooks now unlock Marks upon activation. Cast a mark upon an enemy target, afflicting him with a negative effect that makes him more vulnerable to your attacks. Marking an enemy target unlocks marked skills in mechanic slots F3, F4, and F5. Each spellbook has a different set of marked skills.
• New spellbook: Kalla's Manifesto, containing offensive magic, specially effective against marked targets. The effect palette switches to oranges. The elite skill applies stun break and stealth to nearby allies.
• New weapon: Short Bow.
• New slot skills: Gadgets.

---

If you've checked the other profession redesign threads, you'll know my primary goal is to normalize core mechanics, and build elite specializations from a dual profession viewpoint, mechanic-wise. Herald uses auras, the new guardian core mechanic (in turn inspired by the original herald facets), and renegade uses marks, the new thief core mechanic inspired by the deadeye.

Some new elite specialization ideas to see how the changes could affect them, based on the new core mechanics of mesmer, revenant itself, and ranger:

---

Hierophant

• Spellbooks now unlock Summon Echo upon activation, letting you summon the spellbooks themselves into the real space. Any spellbook skills you use will be replicated by the physical spellbooks. You can summon up to three echoes for every spellbook. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 provide additional echo skills, unique for each spellbook. The defunct Ventari's Table object mechanic would make a return here.
• New spellbook: Cauldron of Cataclysm, containing offensive Flame Legion magic. The effect palette switches to reds. The elite skill is The Searing, dealing a lot of damage over time.
• New weapon: Relic.
• New slot skills: Mantras.

Ritualist

• Revenants can now carry five spellbooks at once, using mechanic skills F1, F2, F3, F4, and F5. Shared cooldowns still apply, but can be reduced by constantly rotating between the five different spellboks.
• New spellbook: The Tengu Accords, containing spirit control options. The effect palette switches to cyans.
• New weapon: Scepter.
• New slot skills: Spirits, similar to engineer turrets.

Stargazer

• Spellbooks now unlock Summon Beast upon activation, summoning a friendly companion to fight by your side. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 provide basic beast control options. The beasts are: Stone Golem for Tome of the Rubicon, Graven Monolith for the Apocrypha, Shiro'ken for Jade Crystal Ball, White Stag for Ventari's Tablet, and Owl Spirit for the Scroll of the Wild. Beasts don't disappear once you swap out of their spellbook, but summoning a new beast will replace the previous one.
• New Spellbook: Scroll of the Wild, containing Spirits of the Wild magic with good beast synergy. The effect palette switches to yellows.
• New weapon: Greatsword.
• New slot skills: Enchantments, similar to thief venoms. Good synergy with beasts.

---

After so many redesign ideas, I think this is my favorite by far. If you think the skill numbers are ridiculous (5 from the spellbook, and 6 from the slot skills), don't forget that engineer already works this way, the tool belt doubling the amount of slot skills to be developed with every elite specialization (6 slot skills, and 6 tool belt skills).

Still, remember this thread is just for fun, so feel free to post any ideas you have, even if you believe there's no way they could be happening.

It's been a while. Here's another take, combining the best of all previous ideas:

---

Changes to the core profession

• Legendary Stances have been replaced by Legendary Relics, a new mechanic inspired by Ventari's Tablet and Scourge Sand Shades. More information on this new mechanic below.
• The Energy resource has been repurposed for exclusive relic usage. Neither weapon skills nor slot skills consume energy any longer, sans a few specific exceptions.
• The following weapons have been implemented: Main-hand Axe, off-hand Mace, Focus, Torch, and Polearm.
• Slot skills are no longer connected to the active mechanic, and can now be customized freely. The following skill types have been implemented: Corruption, Consecration, Mantra, Signet, and Trick.

---

New mechanic: Relics

You can equip two relics at once, controlling them through the mechanic bar:

• F1: Summon the relic at the target location. Grants a passive effect while active.
• F2: Movement skill.
• F3: Small area skill.
• F4: Large area skill. Destroys the relic and consumes any remaining energy.
• F5: Swap between your equipped relics.

Mechanic skills F2, F3, and F4 are channeled through the relic. If there is no relic active, they will be generated from the revenant instead, albeit at a weaker strength.

There are four relics available, plus an exclusive relic with each elite specialization:

Ventari's Tablet

• Passive: Heal nearby allies every few seconds.
• F2 - Purifying Essence: Move the tablet, removing conditions from allies it passes through, and healing them for each condition removed.
• F3 - Protective Solace: Summon a protective barrier to destroy enemy projectiles.
• F4 - Dream of Dreams: Knock back nearby enemies, remove conditions from nearby allies based on the energy lost, and leave fragments for allies to heal further.

Tome of the Rubicon

• Passive: Reduce incoming damage to allies.
• F2 - Inspiring Reinforcement: Move the tome, damaging and weakening enemies it passes through, and leave a stone road that pulses stability to nearby allies.
• F3 - Spirit Bond: Connect the lifes of nearby allies, distributing incoming damage between them.
• F4 - Rite of the Great Dwarf: Turn nearby allies to stone to reduce incoming damage.

Jade Wind Orb

• Passive: Nearby allies steal life every time they deal damage to an enemy.
• F2 - Echoing Banishment: Move the orb, siphoning life from enemies it passes through.
• F3 - Impossible Odds: Nearby allies gain great movement speed and strike enemies an additional time when they hit them.
• F4 - Jade Winds: Turn nearby enemies into jade, stunning them for a short duration.

Apocrypha

• Passive: Transfer a condition from nearby allies to yourself every few seconds.
• F2 - Banish Enchantment: Move the tablet, dealing damage, applying confusion, and removing boons from enemies it passes through.
• F3 - Embrace the Darkness: Turn nearby allies into demons, pulsing torment to nearby enemies.
• F4 - Nightfall: Transfer conditions from allies into enemies, dealing damage and applying blind for every condition transferred.

Relics consume the energy resource to activate their skills. Energy regenerates on its own, but can be restored by some weapon and slot skills as well.

---

New slot skills

Slot skills can now be customized freely. The following skill types have been implemented:

• Corruptions are based on the remaining Legendary Demon skills, letting you manipulate conditions back and forth.
• Consecrations are based on the remaining Legendary Dwarf skills, providing defensive and crowd control abilities.
• Mantras are based on GW1 Ritualist Item Spells.
• Signets provide special effects for the relics, in a way similar the ranger's own signets provide effects for their pets.
• Tricks are based on the remaining Legendary Assassin skills, focusing on damage evasion and mobility.

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Changes to Herald

• Relic summoning has been disabled. Relic powers can now be channeled through the revenant at maximum strength, using auras, a new mechanic inspired by the original Herald Facets. Mechanic skills F2, F3, and F4 have been transformed into auras. Use once to activate the passive effect (Aura), and again to consume it and trigger an active skill (Overload). Mechanic skill F1 lets you activate and consume all auras at once.
• New relic: Flameseeker Prophecies.
• New weapon: Shield.
• New slot skills: Glyphs. They contain different abilities depending on the active Relic. For the new relic, it includes three additional aura skills.

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Changes to Renegade

• Relics have been replaced by Echoes. Instead of summing a relic and channeling skills through it, now you summon individual echoes for each relic skill, being able to target different locations at once. Echoes are inspired by the original Renegade invocations, and depict ancient characters connected to the active relic, including those originally depicted by the original legendary stances.
• Ventari's Tablet is represented by Riannoc, Wynne, Ronan, and Ventari himself.
• Tome of the Rubicon is represented by Telzar Ironjaw, Orozar Highstone, High Priest Alkar, and King Jalis Ironhammer.
• Jade Wind Orb is represented by Archemorus, Viktor zu Heltzer, Vizu, and Shiro Tagachi.
• Apocrypha is represented by General Bayel, General Kahyet, General Morgahn, and Warmarshal Varesh Ossa.
• New relic: Kalla's Manifesto. Represented characters include Violo Raptorgaze, Lieutenant Ofela Soulcleave, Imperator Forge Ironstrike, and Kalla Scorchrazor.
• New weapon: Shortbow.
• New slot skills: Shouts, partially inspired by Citadel Orders. They are replicated by the active echoes, strengthening their effects.

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New specialization idea: Oracle

Inspired by Canthan Tengu, the Oracle of the Mists, and the Great Tsunami.

• Relics have been replaced by Curses, inspired by Deadeye's Mark. Instead of summoning a relic at the target position and channeling skills through it, now you attach the effects of your own relic on an enemy target, mobile or stationary, and channel skills through him. Curses disappear after a few seconds, and the victim can be remove them by using stun breaking skills as well. The passive effect is twisted into a negative version of itself, and the movement skill (F2) of the relic is swapped to an alternate offensive skill for the duration of the curse. Small and large area skills (F3 and F4) remain mostly unchanged.
• Ventari's Tablet becomes Curse of Thorns, pulsing poison on passive, and immobilizing on active.
• Tome of the Rubicon becomes Curse of Stone, pulsing slow on passive, and knocking down on active.
• Jade Wind Orb becomes Curse of Despair, pulsing weakness on passive, and applying confusion on active.
• Apocrypha becomes Curse of Anguish, pulsing torment on passive, and applying fear on active.
• New relic: Silverwing Compass. Becomes Curse of Fate, pulsing vulnerability on passive, and stunning on active.
• New weapon: Scepter.
• New slot skills: Spirits, based on Engineer Turrets and GW1 Ritualist Binding Rituals. Spirits do bonus damage against cursed targets.

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New specialization idea: Hierophant

Inspired by Flame Legion magic, Searing Cauldrons, and the Searing of Ascalon.

• Some of your personal weapon skills will gain alternate combat effects depending on your active relic, inspired by Elementalist Attunements. Your attacks will receive visual recolors as well.
• Ventari's Tablet provides bonus healing, plus a green-yellow visual recolor.
• Tome of the Rubicon provides bonus crowd control effects, plus a white-blue visual recolor.
• Jade Wind Orb provides bonus damage, plus a green visual recolor.
• Apocrypha provides bonus torment condition damage, plus a purple visual recolor.
• New relic: Cauldron of Cataclysm. Provides bonus burning condition damage, plus a red-orange visual recolor.
• New weapon: Battlegloves.
• New slot skills: Cantrips.

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New specialization idea: Enchanter

Inspired by Norn shamanism, Enchanted Armor, and the Spirits of the Wild.

• Relics have been replaced by Enchanted Relics, living constructs inspired by Ranger Pets. Enchanted relics work in the same exact way as pets, except they use energy instead of health. Enchanted relics have more energy than common relics, but they can be attacked and destroyed.
• Ventari's Tablet reforms itself into a stone deer.
• Tome of the Rubicon turns itself into a living book, unleashing a whirlwind of flying pages to attack.
• Jade Wind Orb surrounds itself with flying Shiro'ken jade blades.
• Apocrypha reforms itself into a stone kraken.
• New relic: Lost Totem of Owl. Represented by a living statue of Owl Spirit.
• New weapon: Greatsword.
• New slot skills: Enchantments, based on Thief Venoms and GW1 Ritualist Weapon Spells.

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There it is! My best one by far. I didn't get to describe the elite specialization relics and skills on detail, so I'll leave that to your imagination.