Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic concerns [Merged]

[Dante.1763]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Dante.1763 said:As it is now, the new one blows the silver fed ones usage out of the water due to it being half the price with only a 5% loss at a chance of rare materials.Until someone publishes ecto salvage rates for it, I can't agree. If runecrafter has a 5% smaller rate of 82% instead of of 87%, then it looks like silver-fed is slightly better.

Which is more valuable in 6 months is going to depend a lot on the markets for ecto, symbols, and charms.

My recommendation

is that if you own silver-fed already, don't buy runecrafter. And vice-versa: don't by runecrafter if you own silver-fed. Use either on masterwork & rares.If you do own both, use RC on masterwork, SF on

---

Some back of the envelope numbers for 100 rares, 80 of which include an upgrade (rough guess of rares found in the wild). Assume half armor, half weapons. For Runecrafter, we can expect 3.9*0.5 of symbols, and the same number of charms. For silver-fed, it's 80% of that.

Silver-fed: 19.6 gold

• 87 ecto @19s = 16.6 gold
• 3.9
  0.8
  0.5 symbols * 1.17g average value = 1.8g
• 3.9
  0.8
  0.5 charms * 1.13g average value = 1.77 g
• Cost = 60c * 100 = 0.6g

Runecrafter: 19.8 gold

• 82 ecto @19s (reasonable guess) = 15.6
• 3.9
  1
  0.5 symbols * 1.17 =2.3
• 3.9
  1
  0.5 charms * 1.13 = 2.2

That's a difference of 20 silver-fed in salvaging 100 rares, which is negligible especially considering the number of assumptions made. The more rares you get without an upgrade, the better silver-fed becomes. We also don't know the actual ecto drop rate from runecrafter, which could be much less than 82, and that would make it a lot less worthwhile.

So, i just salvaged 325 rares using the runecrafters and got 345 ecto from it. However, i did notice that i didnt get any essence of luck from those rares. I did get 487 motes, but only 5 symbols.

[Asum.4960]

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Silver-Fed was never worth it.

That was the case at the begining when it cost 1 silver on use. It has since been reduced to 60 copper on use, which makes it just slightly less expensive than the Master's salvage kit for the same rates.

And Mystic Salvage kits are 10c per use, doing the same thing.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Dante.1763 said:So, i just salvaged 325 rares using the runecrafters and got 345 ecto from it.Interesting. I've had lucky streaks with silver-fed. But that suggests a higher drop rate than .875 (very little chance of getting more than 325 ecto from silver-fed, let alone what's supposed to be a lesser kit).

I'm hoping for results from 10k uses or so (the variance is pretty high because the results can be 0, 1, 2, or 3).

However, i did notice that i didnt get any essence of luck from those rares.Rares never drop luck.

I did get 487 motes, but only 5 symbols.12-13 is the expected averageBut you didn't say whether any of your rares lacked upgrades as is the case for any trinkets, certain skins, and a lot of fractal rares. These tend to be cheaper on the TP (even before the upgrade system overhaul).

PS thanks for the data.

[Saniyah.1984]

@totaloverride.3240 said:Runecrafter's kit should give rune not salvage the rune!!!!!!!!!!This is one more scam. I bought this and now i regret that.i want my 200g back!

OMG please NOOO, i bought permenant upgrade extractor if they did as you said i want 3000 gold back!!!

[Dante.1763]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Dante.1763 said:So, i just salvaged 325 rares using the runecrafters and got 345 ecto from it.Interesting. I've had lucky streaks with silver-fed. But that suggests a higher drop rate than .875 (very little chance of getting more than 325 ecto from silver-fed, let alone what's supposed to be a lesser kit).

I'm hoping for results from 10k uses or so (the variance is pretty high because the results can be 0, 1, 2, or 3).

However, i did notice that i didnt get any essence of luck from those rares.Rares never drop luck.

I did get 487 motes, but only 5 symbols.12-13 is the expected averageBut you didn't say whether any of your rares lacked upgrades as is the case for any trinkets, certain skins, and a lot of fractal rares. These tend to be cheaper on the TP (even before the upgrade system overhaul).

PS thanks for the data.

Ah, wasnt aware rares didnt drop luck thats good info!

Im running another group here soon, and ill make sure they all have runes/sigils.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

FYI the OP (@ROMANG.1903) has updated their original post to summarize some of the discussion above. Probably worth double-checking before replying.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Asum.4960 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Silver-Fed was never worth it.

That was the case at the begining when it cost 1 silver on use. It has since been reduced to 60 copper on use, which makes it just slightly less expensive than the Master's salvage kit for the same rates.

And Mystic Salvage kits are 10c per use, doing the same thing.

This assumes you don’t need to buy Mystic Forge Stones, which increases the cost per salvage dramatically.

[Ashantara.8731]

The Silver-fed has become redundant. So did the Mystic Salvage Kits. Now ANet just has to introduce a new use for the Mystic Forge Stones. I, for once, will have no more need of them as a mere component for the Mystic Salvage Kits.

[Khisanth.2948]

Eh ... checking the numbers this is unimpressive.

In the best possible scenario(that is also impossible) and assuming I will be playing the game for another 7 years it amounts to a maximum of 7g per day. This is before factoring in the difference in ecto salvage rate.

[Skyroar.2974]

Now that silver-o-matic finally had a niche that made it worthwhile as a convenience item (salvaging masterwork items, which would deplete mystic salvage kits too fast otherwise), Anet just killed it by selling a strictly better version at its niche.

Silver is still worth to use on masterworks if you have purchased the item already and do not have runecraft's, but outside of that, there's no reason to get it.

[LucianDK.8615]

So what does anyone use to salvage rares and exotics?

[eldrjth.7384]

@"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

The big thing is that we don't know what rate it'll produce ecto from rares. Remember, that "rarer materials" chance is not the ecto chance.

It isnt? damn I thought that was the case, now I believe runecrafters might be the goto salvager for everything but maybe uniques.

--

I think they can either raise the chance of silver fed getting rarer items or reduce its cost per use to be roughly the same as runecrafters since they almost balance each other out in pros/cons of use anyway, and runecrafter will get significantly more use because of mystic kits. But maybe you could argue that the cost of salvaging gear with runecrafters should go up to 60c instead, since reducing the cost of silver fed at this point might warrant a name change lol

[Khisanth.2948]

@LucianDK.8615 said:So what does anyone use to salvage rares and exotics?

Need to wait for a large enough data set of ecto salvage rates to know what is best but for me I just stick with silver fed.

[Dante.1763]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Dante.1763 said:So, i just salvaged 325 rares using the runecrafters and got 345 ecto from it.Interesting. I've had lucky streaks with silver-fed. But that suggests a higher drop rate than .875 (very little chance of getting more than 325 ecto from silver-fed, let alone what's supposed to be a lesser kit).

I'm hoping for results from 10k uses or so (the variance is pretty high because the results can be 0, 1, 2, or 3).

However, i did notice that i didnt get any essence of luck from those rares.Rares never drop luck.

I did get 487 motes, but only 5 symbols.12-13 is the expected averageBut you didn't say whether any of your rares lacked upgrades as is the case for any trinkets, certain skins, and a lot of fractal rares. These tend to be cheaper on the TP (even before the upgrade system overhaul).

PS thanks for the data.

Second set of rares down, much smaller group this time 130 instead of 325.

results are:5 Symbols total(3 pain, 2 control)99 EctoAnd 231 motes

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

As much as I'm less than happy with its function because I also misunderstood the description (my fault not theirs) I should have seen something was off when I saw that it is salvaging what I in error thought would be a Rune or Sigil for "HALF" the cost it took to use the Silver Salvage device, and to be honest where is the benefit to them as a company for product that "Wipes out most the usefulness of both the Black Salvage Kit and the Upgrade Extractor" both of which are also drops you can get thru normal game play (Black Lion Keys etc) or buy from the Gem store. I understand people are upset but this isn't a SCAM no matter how much you want to tell yourself it is .

[LucianDK.8615]

The upgrade extractor is hardly useless. It allows you to preserve the item you pull it from. Useful if you want to toy with different runes/sigils and not owning legendary weapons/armor

[Dante.1763]

@LucianDK.8615 said:The upgrade extractor is hardly useless. It allows you to preserve the item you pull it from. Useful if you want to toy with different runes/sigils and not owning legendary weapons/armor

The unfortunate thing in this whole process is the only means to save upgrades is in the gem store, the extractor also is from there(the infinite from BLCs) your average player doesnt have the gold required to buy one of them.

[LucianDK.8615]

well nothing is changing for items you want to keep. But yeah, they clearly want you to craft new rune/sigil replacements, convoluting the process.

[Khisanth.2948]

The majority of upgrades aren't worth using an extractor on even with the cheaper price. The ones that are worth using are basically the stuff with aura items. Most people aren't going to even get one of those items to salvage much less the 25 that can be covered by a single kit.

There are some upgrades that are worth using if you happen to have a free kit lying around already.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Dante.1763 said:what i paid for should still do what i paid for it to do.

It's not the first time ANet's changed the utility of a convenience item

after

a major feature update. I do think that ANet should offer to refund the cost of the kit to anyone who asks, since the functionality changed. There's almost no chance that they can allow a silver-fed to continue to extract runes, since the economic changes require that sigils & runes be produced via crafting, not 'recovery'.

If

I was really unhappy with the change, I'd submit a support ticket and keep appealing until a very senior GM responded. I think there's a very good chance that they'll realize that they should honor such requests for a month or so.

That is not right at all.. the economic changes do not require them to be crafted or the BLS kit or extractors would not exist.. The creative changes to the wordings on the fed o matics and salvage kits has come about due to it being highlighted as false and is now just a play on words to catch unsuspecting players out, whilst creating gemstore transactions for a useless item. There is no excuse for taking an item bought and paid for and changing its functionality to make it all but useless without recourse. It is very much a scam and a damn shady practice.The gemstore is starting to look more like... must have items rather than fluff to convenience.I give ANET a huge thumbs down on this , just the latest in a growing list of very poor decisions, which to me looks more an more like a bean counter driven requirement.Still, it's just another reason for me to no longer support the game financially and I would hazard a guess I wont be the only one thinking that.

[notebene.3190]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Recommend uses:

• Fine or less: copper-fed/basic
• Masterwork: runecrafter's or silver-fed if you don't have rc
• Rares: silver-fed, mystic, or masterwork

All three infinite-use items from the gem shop are convenience items that you should not buy to save money; you should only by for the convenience in not having to stack multiple kits, as they will never pay for themselves (at least not for "typical" players).

FYI to recover upgrades, there's the endless upgrade extractor that drops from the TP, for ~2600-3600 gold, which is equivalent to 1300-1500 gems total outlay (with 0 cost per use). A poor deal for most people; probably a good deal for the likes of snowcrows of which each member probably changes upgrades more often than my entire guild changes wardrobe.

I wish there was a way to bookmark responses in a thread and not just the entire thread itself. I mean, within the forum itself. Obviously I could bookmark responses using tools outside the forum engine itself. :3

[Ashantara.8731]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:So what does anyone use to salvage rares and exotics?

Need to wait for a large enough data set of ecto salvage rates to know what is best but for me I just stick with silver fed.

For exotics?? Are you crazy? :o A Black Lion Salvage kit for those, ofcourse! Or use the Endless Upgrade Extractor first, then try your luck with the Silver-fed/Mystic Salvage Kit.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:So what does anyone use to salvage rares and exotics?

Need to wait for a large enough data set of ecto salvage rates to know what is best but for me I just stick with silver fed.

For exotics?? Are you crazy? :o A Black Lion Salvage kit for those, ofcourse! Or use the Endless Upgrade Extractor first,

then

try your luck with the Silver-fed/Mystic Salvage Kit.

This isn't a realistic plan. Only a fraction of the community has enough BL sal kits to use on exotics. A smaller fraction of the community has enough disposable gold to afford the endless extractor.

[Melizande.7230]

@notebene.3190 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Recommend uses:

• Fine or less: copper-fed/basic
• Masterwork: runecrafter's
  or
  silver-fed if you don't have rc
• Rares: silver-fed, mystic, or masterwork

All three infinite-use items from the gem shop are convenience items that you

should not

buy to save money; you should only by for the convenience in not having to stack multiple kits, as they will never pay for themselves (at least not for "typical" players).

FYI to recover upgrades, there's the endless upgrade extractor that drops from the TP, for ~2600-3600 gold, which is equivalent to 1300-1500 gems total outlay (with 0 cost per use). A poor deal for most people; probably a good deal for the likes of snowcrows of which each member probably changes upgrades more often than my entire guild changes wardrobe.

I wish there was a way to bookmark responses in a thread and not just the entire thread itself. I mean, within the forum itself. Obviously I could bookmark responses using tools outside the forum engine itself. :3

I think that if you're looking to own all three and want to minmax how you use them, this is a brilliant reply.I suspect more players are trying to decide whether they should be using Runecrafters exclusively in place of Silver-Fed, or in my case whether or not to buy this one, or wait for Silver-Fed to come back around.I think a small number of players are looking to decide which of the three they can use for absolutely all loot drops from here on out.

I think it's fair to suggest Black Lion kits to the minmaxer, but I suspect that many players who buy either this or the Silver-Fed Salvage-o-Matic, are looking for a device to salvage Rare and possibly even Exotic items with, so they never have to make/buy Mystic-level kits again.

[notebene.3190]

@Melizande.7230 said:

@notebene.3190 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Recommend uses:

• Fine or less: copper-fed/basic
• Masterwork: runecrafter's
  or
  silver-fed if you don't have rc
• Rares: silver-fed, mystic, or masterwork

All three infinite-use items from the gem shop are convenience items that you

should not

buy to save money; you should only by for the convenience in not having to stack multiple kits, as they will never pay for themselves (at least not for "typical" players).

FYI to recover upgrades, there's the endless upgrade extractor that drops from the TP, for ~2600-3600 gold, which is equivalent to 1300-1500 gems total outlay (with 0 cost per use). A poor deal for most people; probably a good deal for the likes of snowcrows of which each member probably changes upgrades more often than my entire guild changes wardrobe.

I wish there was a way to bookmark responses in a thread and not just the entire thread itself. I mean, within the forum itself. Obviously I could bookmark responses using tools outside the forum engine itself. :3

I think that if you're looking to own all three and want to minmax how you use them, this is a brilliant reply.I suspect more players are trying to decide whether they should be using Runecrafters exclusively in place of Silver-Fed, or in my case whether or not to buy this one, or wait for Silver-Fed to come back around.I think a small number of players are looking to decide which of the three they can use for absolutely all loot drops from here on out.

I think it's fair to suggest Black Lion kits to the minmaxer, but I suspect that many players who buy either this or the Silver-Fed Salvage-o-Matic, are looking for a device to salvage Rare and possibly even Exotic items with, so they never have to make/buy Mystic-level kits again.

I'm in the boat of having a silver-fed, but not realizing that maybe I should only use my copper for fine and lower, and let my silver-fed sneak down to masterwork. That had not occurred to me. I think this says that my silver-fed is probably fine as is, and maybe there isn't real reason for me to get the RC. I save all my Black Lion kits for exotic items that can't pull a pretty penny on the AH (either b/c of the item itself or it's rune/sigil).