Episode 5: All or Nothing Trailer Discussion. - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Episode 5: All or Nothing Trailer Discussion.

13

Comments

  • Dragana.1497Dragana.1497 Member ✭✭✭

    Marjory is of Canthan descent not from Cantha.

    "I'm not quite what I thought I was but then again I'm maybe more"

  • @Arden.7480 said:

    @Dimi Gravedancer.1463 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    The post-Joko "good awakened" being part of the "save the world crew" is a nice touch. We have the pact, the Destiny Edge, persons from GW1-NightFall, the Sunspears. I'm curious to know who else more will come up, or if will be there more "famous ghosts" from the mists.

    You know, this would be a good opportunity to get someone from Cantha to show up. Even if just for some "Foreshadowing", as I am 90% sure the next Xpac will be Cantha (at least I am praying)

    Marjory?

    Marjory is from Cantha, she may get a letter at some point from her homeland.

    Her family hasn't been in Cantha for 100+ years. And there's no way to tell whether they were simply stranded or, more likely, one of the many exiles from Usoku's reign. If the former, why would anyone even know about her (and why now)? If the latter, why would any even care?

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2018

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Her family hasn't been in Cantha for 100+ years. And there's no way to tell whether they were simply stranded or, more likely, one of the many exiles from Usoku's reign. If the former, why would anyone even know about her (and why now)? If the latter, why would any even care?

    This.

    If and when we go to Cantha it will likely be due to the simple fact that we CAN now that we have defeated Zhaitan, who was blocking the ocean ways out of Tyria, and the fact that all the local dragons(Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Kralkatorrik) have been defeated, and Jormag and Primordus are sleep again. I mean, Kamadan is as close, if not closer, to Cantha then it is Orr, It would be a relatively short boat ride to get there at this point.

    If there is any sort of outside influence that directs us to Cantha it will likely either be
    A. The Tengu want to go back and reclaim the homeland of many of their tribes, and so are starting some expedition to head out that way. We just happen to join in.
    B. Some people flee from Cantha and arrive in Istan or Lion's Arch talking about how the Emperor has gone crazy and started doing something evil and we need to go there and stop it.
    C. Some people flee from Cantha and arrive in Istan or Lion's Arch talking about how the DSD is attacking all laong the coast and its minions are doing massive damage to the area, so we, the dragon slayers that we are, go there to stop the dragon.

    Cantha is just like right down there based roughly on the Durmand Priory floor map(and no these maps are obviously not entirely to scale with each other) Also threw the rough location of the Battle Isles in there because why not

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Her family hasn't been in Cantha for 100+ years. And there's no way to tell whether they were simply stranded or, more likely, one of the many exiles from Usoku's reign. If the former, why would anyone even know about her (and why now)? If the latter, why would any even care?

    This.

    If and when we go to Cantha it will likely be due to the simple fact that we CAN now that we have defeated Zhaitan, who was blocking the ocean ways out of Tyria, and the fact that all the local dragons(Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Kralkatorrik) have been defeated, and Jormag and Primordus are sleep again. I mean, Kamadan is as close, if not closer, to Cantha then it is Orr, It would be a relatively short boat ride to get there at this point.

    If there is any sort of outside influence that directs us to Cantha it will likely either be
    A. The Tengu want to go back and reclaim the homeland of many of their tribes, and so are starting some expedition to head out that way. We just happen to join in.
    B. Some people flee from Cantha and arrive in Istan or Lion's Arch talking about how the Emperor has gone crazy and started doing something evil and we need to go there and stop it.
    C. Some people flee from Cantha and arrive in Istan or Lion's Arch talking about how the DSD is attacking all laong the coast and its minions are doing massive damage to the area, so we, the dragon slayers that we are, go there to stop the dragon.

    Cantha is just like right down there based roughly on the Durmand Priory floor map(and no these maps are obviously not entirely to scale with each other) Also threw the rough location of the Battle Isles in there because why not

    Oooo something i thought of just now, with the rising of Orr from the ocean depths the geopgraphy(think its the proper term?) of the Continent of Tyria has changed dramatically along the cost, and even a little inland, i wonder if any of Cantha got destroyed/flooded out.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • @Dante.1763 said:
    Oooo something i thought of just now, with the rising of Orr from the ocean depths the geopgraphy(think its the proper term?) of the Continent of Tyria has changed dramatically along the cost, and even a little inland, i wonder if any of Cantha got destroyed/flooded out.

    Elona didn't seem to suffer too many changes from the rising of Orr, so I doubt Cantha did either. Though, IIRC, it is mentioned that the Battle Isles sunk.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Oooo something i thought of just now, with the rising of Orr from the ocean depths the geopgraphy(think its the proper term?) of the Continent of Tyria has changed dramatically along the cost, and even a little inland, i wonder if any of Cantha got destroyed/flooded out.

    Elona didn't seem to suffer too many changes from the rising of Orr, so I doubt Cantha did either. Though, IIRC, it is mentioned that the Battle Isles sunk.

    Well, the crystal desert did for sure which is a part of Elona, but what i did notice is that lower regions of Elona seemed to have gotten drier recently. Since the Battle Isles sank, id expect at least parts of the coast to be sunk as well.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • @Dante.1763 said:
    Well, the crystal desert did for sure which is a part of Elona, but what i did notice is that lower regions of Elona seemed to have gotten drier recently. Since the Battle Isles sank, id expect at least parts of the coast to be sunk as well.

    The change in Elona was caused by Joko damming the river Elon, and redirecting it. Not the rising of Orr.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Well, the crystal desert did for sure which is a part of Elona, but what i did notice is that lower regions of Elona seemed to have gotten drier recently. Since the Battle Isles sank, id expect at least parts of the coast to be sunk as well.

    The change in Elona was caused by Joko damming the river Elon, and redirecting it. Not the rising of Orr.

    Not all of the changes in Elona where caused by that(the ones on the lower end of the continent i agree with), but the upper portions i highly doubt, also you can see the Dam locations on the map.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2018

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Not all of the changes in Elona where caused by that(the ones on the lower end of the continent i agree with), but the upper portions i highly doubt, also you can see the Dam locations on the map.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Movement_of_the_World
    The monster's name was Palawa Joko. Within sixty years of Kormir's rise to godhood, Palawa Joko mustered his former power and marched a new army of mummies, zombies, and other undead out of the Crystal Desert into war with Vabbi. To ensure his dominance, Palawa dammed and diverted the river Elon, causing drought and famine amid the northern provinces of Elona and creating a green and growing area within the Crystal Desert. In this area, Palawa Joko established the seat of his new kingdom.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2018

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    C. Some people flee from Cantha and arrive in Istan or Lion's Arch talking about how the DSD is attacking all laong the coast and its minions are doing massive damage to the area, so we, the dragon slayers that we are, go there to stop the dragon.

    To be fair, given the lore we have on the DSD, if it attacks Cantha, it'd be attacking from Cantha's north. So people fleeing by boat (which would be fairly idiotic) would have to go through the DSD to get to Tyria.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Oooo something i thought of just now, with the rising of Orr from the ocean depths the geopgraphy(think its the proper term?) of the Continent of Tyria has changed dramatically along the cost, and even a little inland, i wonder if any of Cantha got destroyed/flooded out.

    Elona didn't seem to suffer too many changes from the rising of Orr, so I doubt Cantha did either. Though, IIRC, it is mentioned that the Battle Isles sunk.

    Elona was at an akward angle from Orr, in that it wouldn't really be hit much by it. There was some hitting, as the Olmakhan do mention the giant tsunami that Zhaitan's rise caused, but even most of Istan would be in a position where it would barely get hit, if at all. And if it did get hit, it would mostly have been Zehlon Reach that suffered, which we didn't see.

    The Movement of the World stated that Zhaitan's rise flooded the Battle Isles, and the Durmand Priory map does show some geographical differences from the GW1 map - namely the sudden landbridge connecting Shing Jea Island to the mainland and quite a bit of water at Tahnnakai Temple and Vizunah Square areas were. Though how the Durmand Priory found any of this out after contact was cut off is unclear - either from tengu or some Canthan exiles most likely.

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Not all of the changes in Elona where caused by that(the ones on the lower end of the continent i agree with), but the upper portions i highly doubt, also you can see the Dam locations on the map.

    If you're referring to the Elon Riverlands, then that was indeed primarily caused by the damming of the Elon. Both the water and the quicksand.

    If you look at the position of things, only Amnoon would really be hit by the rising of Orr tsunami - and that may be why "old Amnoon" is sunk (even though those structures could not have been from GW1 Amnoon; if they were the initial attempts at Amnoon by the corsairs and nomads after Joko's conquest and it got hit by the tsunami, that'd make more sense).

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    The Movement of the World stated that Zhaitan's rise flooded the Battle Isles, and the Durmand Priory map does show some geographical differences from the GW1 map - namely the sudden landbridge connecting Shing Jea Island to the mainland and quite a bit of water at Tahnnakai Temple and Vizunah Square areas were. Though how the Durmand Priory found any of this out after contact was cut off is unclear - either from tengu or some Canthan exiles most likely.

    Sure, but the Priory map also shows us a lot of things like a giant lake where Vabbi should be that isn't anywhere in the game itself.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    To be fair, given the lore we have on the DSD, if it attacks Cantha, it'd be attacking from Cantha's north. So people fleeing by boat (which would be fairly idiotic) would have to go through the DSD to get to Tyria.

    I was going by your previous guesses that the DSD was off in that region of the world between the battle Isles, the sunken Islands, and the "Arid" landmass. Based on this location the DSD would be attacking fro mthe west/north-west, and the northern coast would be used to flee. Assuming it takes the shortest possible path from its presumed location to Cantha

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I mean at this point in the story, why didn't we just let Balthazar kill the dragons if we are gonna do it anyway

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

  • @Klipso.8653 said:
    I mean at this point in the story, why didn't we just let Balthazar kill the dragons if we are gonna do it anyway

    Because we had nothing to stabilize the world's magical supply when Balthazar tried to kill the dragons. Balthazar also didn't care about what happened to the world and was going to do it knowing full well we had nothing and that the planet would be destroyed.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Klipso.8653 said:
    I mean at this point in the story, why didn't we just let Balthazar kill the dragons if we are gonna do it anyway

    Because he acted like a total jerk?

    PoF story never stated that we won't be killing the dragons: the cinematic in Kesho said that we need the vessels that will share the magic, not keep it for themselves. The Glint's Legacy is all about it.

    Also we know that the gods cannot fight the dragons, because it will either destroy them or Tyria, so if they actually kill the dragons, the magic of the dragons will destroy them, and if they fail then Tyria will die, because the dragons will get all the divine magic.

    Which we know what could cause after episode 4- Kralkatorrik gets an access to the Mists.

    So the Gods will die anyway- no matter if the dragons die or not. They are in the deadlock.

    The only thing I wonder about is will they react to Kralkatorrik's current actions?

    We stand at this point when Aurene is not enough, Tyrian forces are not enough, so what? Edge of Destiny 2.0? Trying to create the Dragonspear and trying to get into Kralkatorrik's mind?

    It's kind of what Blish's notes are suggesting. (Check Sun's Refuge to get more details).

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I really hope we're setting up for a big loss..

    I do not feel comfortable with huge story moments like an Elder Dragon being killed being done in the living world rather than an expansion.
    It greatly diminishes the feeling or threat that these Dragons pose and so far living world 4 has done a great job at hyping up the Crystal Dragon.

    To kill it now in the living world rather than in a large paid expansion just makes me feel like Anet even making expansions is a total waste of thier time and a total waste of our money if we can get the expansion experience as free living world content.

    I don't like this.. I want to keep buying expansions and I want to keep supporting Anet as a company but if the games biggest and most dominant antagonists can be so easily deafeted in free living world content then you might as well just put them back to sleep wrap up the dragon story and stop focusing on them entirely.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and continue to believe that this battle will not result in the death of Kralk but rather a big loss for us.. and I really hope i'm right XD

    It's hard to tell what will happen in the end, but there seem to be 3 possibilities, that are based on the current knowledge:
    1) Kralkatorrik will die, Aurene takes over his power, after using some secret, out of nowhere idea. We will avenge everyone we hold dear that was killed by him.
    2) We will not kill him, he will be putted to sleep
    3) He will kill is all.

    Another conclusion in my opinion of Season 4 can be that the Gods make a stand, and help us kill him, but the cost will be their death. So the Gods make the sacrifice and give Aurene tge knowledge how she should share the magic of Tyria.

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Not after I was through with that instance. :(

    (I always thought it was the most bizarre bonus requirement: the mission requires us to meet up with Glint to get advice; the bonus required that we kill her.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

    Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Artyport.2084Artyport.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

    Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed.

    oh nooo thats so sad. my dream of a baby dragon army is oer

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I really hope we're setting up for a big loss..

    I do not feel comfortable with huge story moments like an Elder Dragon being killed being done in the living world rather than an expansion.
    It greatly diminishes the feeling or threat that these Dragons pose and so far living world 4 has done a great job at hyping up the Crystal Dragon.

    To kill it now in the living world rather than in a large paid expansion just makes me feel like Anet even making expansions is a total waste of thier time and a total waste of our money if we can get the expansion experience as free living world content.

    I don't like this.. I want to keep buying expansions and I want to keep supporting Anet as a company but if the games biggest and most dominant antagonists can be so easily deafeted in free living world content then you might as well just put them back to sleep wrap up the dragon story and stop focusing on them entirely.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and continue to believe that this battle will not result in the death of Kralk but rather a big loss for us.. and I really hope i'm right XD

    It's hard to tell what will happen in the end, but there seem to be 3 possibilities, that are based on the current knowledge:
    1) Kralkatorrik will die, Aurene takes over his power, after using some secret, out of nowhere idea. We will avenge everyone we hold dear that was killed by him.
    2) We will not kill him, he will be putted to sleep
    3) He will kill is all.

    Another conclusion in my opinion of Season 4 can be that the Gods make a stand, and help us kill him, but the cost will be their death. So the Gods make the sacrifice and give Aurene tge knowledge how she should share the magic of Tyria.

    I highly doubt we'll see the gods again anytime soon..
    Their reason for leaving was a fair one, their powers are too great for conflict and their interference would cause more harm than good in the end, They learned that lesson when they took down Abaddon which unleashed so much energy it turned the Crystal sea into a desert.
    The gods reluctance to take action against the Elder Dragons for the same reason is why Balthazar turned rogue and also why the other gods refused to get involved in taking him down as well.

    We were spared such destruction in PoF because Aurine and Kralkatorrik were there to absorb the magic Balthazar had accumulated.
    Kralkatorrik gaining the leftovers but Aurine appears to have absorbed something important which has not been disclosed yet.. My personal opinion is that Aurine has absorbed the bulk of whatever magic made Balthazar a God.. similar to what happened to Kormir at the end of Guildwars Nightfall resulting in her ascending and becoming a God.
    I suspect due to Aurine being unconscious at the time, this was the very last action willed by the remaining Gods who despite leaving Tyria likely still watch events unfold.
    (The Gods are always watching being a line from one of Lyssa's avatars in Guildwars 1 before the battle with Abaddon)
    I expect the Gods know how important Aurine is to Tyria's salvation.. she's the only one who can usurp Kralkatorrik but she's far too young and lacking the power to do so.
    Absorbing Balthazar give her a big growth spurt but she's still a juvenile.. and she's made it clear to us that if she stands against Kralkatorrik now.. she will die.

    So unless Anet goes down the road where we challenge another Elder dragon and pull a win out of our butts like we did with Mordremoth (which I think would annoy a lot of people) I expect the fight with Kralkatorrik is going to go very badly.

    My guess is we challenge him and loose much like what happened with Destiny's Edge and we're forced to retreat and come to the realization that we cannot defeat Kralkatorrik without Aurine and she simply isn't ready, leaving us with a single choice.. protect Aurine from Kralkatorrik at all costs thus forcing us to potentially abandon Tyria to take Aurine out of Kralkatorriks reach.. likely to Cantha and side lining this conflict for a later date when she is older and powerful enough to stand against him.

    Or

    We challenge him.. Aurine is a no show thus the battle goes badly for us but before we are all destroyed by Kralkatorrik Aurine much like her mother sacrifices herself to save us and ends up being branded and forced to serve Kralkatorrik as his new champion.
    This then leads into Season 5 where we attempt to track down and find the Forgotten hoping that the process they originally used to free Glint from Kralkatorriks control will work on Aurine.

    Either way I don't see this fight with Kralkatorrik going well and I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed if Kralkatorrik falls in the living world despite all the buildup he's had lately to depict him as unstopable.
    Pulling a win out now wouldn't feel right and would kind of undermine the overwhelming power the Crystal dragon currently posseses.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I really hope we're setting up for a big loss..

    I do not feel comfortable with huge story moments like an Elder Dragon being killed being done in the living world rather than an expansion.
    It greatly diminishes the feeling or threat that these Dragons pose and so far living world 4 has done a great job at hyping up the Crystal Dragon.

    To kill it now in the living world rather than in a large paid expansion just makes me feel like Anet even making expansions is a total waste of thier time and a total waste of our money if we can get the expansion experience as free living world content.

    I don't like this.. I want to keep buying expansions and I want to keep supporting Anet as a company but if the games biggest and most dominant antagonists can be so easily deafeted in free living world content then you might as well just put them back to sleep wrap up the dragon story and stop focusing on them entirely.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and continue to believe that this battle will not result in the death of Kralk but rather a big loss for us.. and I really hope i'm right XD

    It's hard to tell what will happen in the end, but there seem to be 3 possibilities, that are based on the current knowledge:
    1) Kralkatorrik will die, Aurene takes over his power, after using some secret, out of nowhere idea. We will avenge everyone we hold dear that was killed by him.
    2) We will not kill him, he will be putted to sleep
    3) He will kill is all.

    Another conclusion in my opinion of Season 4 can be that the Gods make a stand, and help us kill him, but the cost will be their death. So the Gods make the sacrifice and give Aurene tge knowledge how she should share the magic of Tyria.

    I highly doubt we'll see the gods again anytime soon..
    Their reason for leaving was a fair one, their powers are too great for conflict and their interference would cause more harm than good in the end, They learned that lesson when they took down Abaddon which unleashed so much energy it turned the Crystal sea into a desert.
    The gods reluctance to take action against the Elder Dragons for the same reason is why Balthazar turned rogue and also why the other gods refused to get involved in taking him down as well.

    We were spared such destruction in PoF because Aurine and Kralkatorrik were there to absorb the magic Balthazar had accumulated.
    Kralkatorrik gaining the leftovers but Aurine appears to have absorbed something important which has not been disclosed yet.. My personal opinion is that Aurine has absorbed the bulk of whatever magic made Balthazar a God.. similar to what happened to Kormir at the end of Guildwars Nightfall resulting in her ascending and becoming a God.
    I suspect due to Aurine being unconscious at the time, this was the very last action willed by the remaining Gods who despite leaving Tyria likely still watch events unfold.
    (The Gods are always watching being a line from one of Lyssa's avatars in Guildwars 1 before the battle with Abaddon)
    I expect the Gods know how important Aurine is to Tyria's salvation.. she's the only one who can usurp Kralkatorrik but she's far too young and lacking the power to do so.
    Absorbing Balthazar give her a big growth spurt but she's still a juvenile.. and she's made it clear to us that if she stands against Kralkatorrik now.. she will die.

    So unless Anet goes down the road where we challenge another Elder dragon and pull a win out of our butts like we did with Mordremoth (which I think would annoy a lot of people) I expect the fight with Kralkatorrik is going to go very badly.

    My guess is we challenge him and loose much like what happened with Destiny's Edge and we're forced to retreat and come to the realization that we cannot defeat Kralkatorrik without Aurine and she simply isn't ready, leaving us with a single choice.. protect Aurine from Kralkatorrik at all costs thus forcing us to potentially abandon Tyria to take Aurine out of Kralkatorriks reach.. likely to Cantha and side lining this conflict for a later date when she is older and powerful enough to stand against him.

    Or

    We challenge him.. Aurine is a no show thus the battle goes badly for us but before we are all destroyed by Kralkatorrik Aurine much like her mother sacrifices herself to save us and ends up being branded and forced to serve Kralkatorrik as his new champion.
    This then leads into Season 5 where we attempt to track down and find the Forgotten hoping that the process they originally used to free Glint from Kralkatorriks control will work on Aurine.

    Either way I don't see this fight with Kralkatorrik going well and I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed if Kralkatorrik falls in the living world despite all the buildup he's had lately to depict him as unstopable.
    Pulling a win out now wouldn't feel right and would kind of undermine the overwhelming power the Crystal dragon currently posseses.

    My bet, is that the Gods will help, but only marginally. they will probably come to help to shoo kralkatorrik out of the mists, and the commander/aurene will solve the rest in Tyria. It is good to remember that this setup of Krakatorrik in the mists is not there for nothing: is to justify the narrative of a dragon more supermassive than it once was, an exceptional enemy to require exceptional methods..

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

    Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed.

    why are Primordus' minions so interested in killing the eggs, though?

    Why is Primordus so eager to destroy Glint's Legacy? Does he feel the danger?

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

    Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed.

    why are Primordus' minions so interested in killing the eggs, though?

    Why is Primordus so eager to destroy Glint's Legacy? Does he feel the danger?

    It think it's more to do with him being the closest to them.
    We don't know what happened to the others but I suspect it was Kralkatorrik who sort them out and Vlast who originally found and protected the last surviving egg.
    When Aurine was attacked by Destroyerrs I think it was just because her egg was a significantly powerful object full of magic and since Mordremoths death Primordus was the next closest Dragon to want it.
    Mordremoth also wanted the egg in HoT if you remember and he was likely keeping the other dragons minions out of his territory while he was alive.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

    Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed.

    why are Primordus' minions so interested in killing the eggs, though?

    Why is Primordus so eager to destroy Glint's Legacy? Does he feel the danger?

    Destroyers were fairly indiscriminate in what they killed and destroyed in gw1. Poss attracted to the magic otherwise I suspect they saw them just as a target

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

    Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed.

    That could just mean that they hatched, though. Even with Glint, Vlast, and Aurene, it wouldn't enough replacements to stabilize things, which sounds like a bad plan. And now we're down to one known scion, unless Vlast is restored. (Maybe Braham should be his champion, they've got the emo thing to bond over.)

    Could be there are some other scions waiting in the woodwork. But for whatever reason, Vlast was supposed to wait before replacing Kraalkatorik. Not sure what for, but I guess we will find out.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

    Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed.

    why are Primordus' minions so interested in killing the eggs, though?

    Why is Primordus so eager to destroy Glint's Legacy? Does he feel the danger?

    Honestly, I've wondered the same and originally I thought that due to the destroyer attack and the brief similarities between Primordus and Glint in GW1, that those two might be related. Then they made Kralkatorrik to be the one related.

    It's most curious because by all reasoning, the Pale Tree should be just as much of a threat, but the risen completely ignored the Pale Tree until sylvari began to spawn; and no other dragon besides Mordremoth bothers with the Pale Tree either. Curiously, only Kralkatorrik and Primordus seemed interested in Glint and her children.

    Maybe Primordus is the mamma dragon.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Destroyers were fairly indiscriminate in what they killed and destroyed in gw1. Poss attracted to the magic otherwise I suspect they saw them just as a target

    While largely true, they did on occasion strike intentional places. The CTC, the baby dragon, the golem foundry, and the Raven Shrine being four most notable examples. Those were nigh endless waves assaulting the places, not indiscriminate attacks.> @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Artyport.2084 said:
    Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory

    Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed.

    That could just mean that they hatched, though. Even with Glint, Vlast, and Aurene, it wouldn't enough replacements to stabilize things, which sounds like a bad plan. And now we're down to one known scion, unless Vlast is restored. (Maybe Braham should be his champion, they've got the emo thing to bond over.)

    Could be there are some other scions waiting in the woodwork. But for whatever reason, Vlast was supposed to wait before replacing Kraalkatorik. Not sure what for, but I guess we will find out.

    Except that Aurene is repeatedly called the second scion of Glint, with Vlast being the first. If others hatched, Aurene would be the third, fourth, or fifth, etc. not the second.

    Unless they hatched with zero knowledge from the Exalted, but that seems counter-intuitive to the whole legacy dealio. But then again, not telling the Commander or the Pact that killing Elder Dragons without a replacement is a bad idea is also counter-intuitive.... OGDEN!

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dimi Gravedancer.1463 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    The post-Joko "good awakened" being part of the "save the world crew" is a nice touch. We have the pact, the Destiny Edge, persons from GW1-NightFall, the Sunspears. I'm curious to know who else more will come up, or if will be there more "famous ghosts" from the mists.

    You know, this would be a good opportunity to get someone from Cantha to show up. Even if just for some "Foreshadowing", as I am 90% sure the next Xpac will be Cantha (at least I am praying)

    Well, I suppose there is the possibility of the Oracle of the Mists showing up. Might be a nice possible introduction to future plots. shrug

  • SidewayS.3789SidewayS.3789 Member ✭✭✭

    If the new Xpac will be another human expansion (Cantha) i wont buy it, and i know i lot of ppls will do the same. I want the new exp something around Charr or Norn or even Asura. I'm already fed up with these episodes, where no matter if you are a Charr/Norn/Asura even Sylvari, you are viewed like a human commander. Maybe next exp will be moving us east of Ascalon, where the Blood Legion have their own territory.

    🌊 Kristoff Pentaghast 🌊
    👉 Guardian on [SFR]👈
    💧 [TLS] 💧

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd be fine with Cantha if they find a way not to make it so human centric. Maybe even make humans the antagonists in it while we help out tengu or some other race.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    We have such a nice huge map right now and several dragons that could awaken at any moment - not to mention new threats can be written in at any time. I hope for cantha someday too but I think it’s several expansions away still

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • If Cantha shows up, I feel like it'd be part of a post-Elder Dragon storyline ArenaNet creates to keep GW2 going past its original primary plot.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @SidewayS.3789 said:
    If the new Xpac will be another human expansion (Cantha) i wont buy it, and i know i lot of ppls will do the same. I want the new exp something around Charr or Norn or even Asura. I'm already fed up with these episodes, where no matter if you are a Charr/Norn/Asura even Sylvari, you are viewed like a human commander. Maybe next exp will be moving us east of Ascalon, where the Blood Legion have their own territory.

    -Any Jormag expansion will invariably take us to the Far shiverpeaks, and thus, old Norn lands.
    -Primordus, being underground, will likely take us to some old dwarven and Asura ruins.
    -Bubbles will be somewhere... be it Cantha, or the "sunken islands" or the "arid" region.
    I really don't see a place to fit in much Charr lands... outside of LW episodes for before or after a Jormag expansion that take place in the Blood Legion homeland area.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Cantha could always represent an opportunity for an old fashioned war plot. Which builds up, and then ends abruptly when DSD eats the Canthan and Tyrian navies.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What made me thinking this evening when I was playing GW2 was the dialogue line from The Way Forward:
    That was Josso Essher, one of the legacy's main architects. Sadly, he was lost in the attempt to convert Kralkatorrik.

    "convert" Kralkatorrik, like making the same ritual as the Forgotten did to Glaust, so it became Glint?

    Can it still be a thing? Trying to convert him, instead of killing?

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • @Arden.7480 said:
    Can it still be a thing? Trying to convert him, instead of killing?

    Follow up line to that:

    Sadizi: Yes. The Forgotten dared to try, but the hunger of the Elder Dragons is too strong. It proved a tragic failure.

    If the Forgotten couldn't do it, I doubt anyone can, because ultimately, Kralkatorrik isn't enslaved like Glint was. He's the slaver.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @Walhalla.5473 said:
    There is something that bugs me here. We all saw the visions from Aurene where, despite what future it was, Aurene just died. And now we are trying to find something that gives us an edge against him. If so... why wasn't that thing included in the visions? Either it was there and the end would be the same or we aren't getting anything that gives us an edge.

    the vision.... it always showed the same thing - we try to confront Kralk directly with different allies, aurene died.

    It did not show that every path leads to Aurene death - just that a frontal assault in any form must fail.

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2019

    I think that's undermining just how demoralising that vision was.

    Either it means something or it was pointless to have it in there in the first place, if it's going to be as simple as, "Oh well not EVERY one of those visions was a failure", because that's not what the vision was saying, from a narrative point of view.

    The only way the vision/s can be interpreted in a meaningful way to the story is that EVERY possibility currently imaginable by a prophetic dragon is going to fail, not just frontal attacks.

  • @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    I think that's undermining just how demoralising that vision was.

    Either it means something or it was pointless to have it in there in the first place, if it's going to be as simple as, "Oh well not EVERY one of those visions was a failure", because that's not what the vision was saying, from a narrative point of view.

    The only way the vision/s can be interpreted in a meaningful way to the story is that EVERY possibility currently imaginable by a prophetic dragon is going to fail, not just frontal attacks.

    We have already seen that the power of prophecy is limited by what the vision holder knows. Glint could foresee the future, but couldn't see her own death, she only stopped seeing things past a certain point, and didn't exactly what what that meant.

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭

    And? If we apply the same thing to Aurene, what's the point if we win against Kralkatorrik even if Aurene is dead? Which is why she didn't see that victory. Because that's a loss regardless, because we need Aurene to be alive.

  • @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    And? If we apply the same thing to Aurene, what's the point if we win against Kralkatorrik even if Aurene is dead? Which is why she didn't see that victory. Because that's a loss regardless, because we need Aurene to be alive.

    Aurene's visions were limited by her understanding. All she could show is that any attempt to kill Kralk in the typical way would fail, but we are obviously going to Thunderhead Peaks to get some Mcguffin that would let us win in a non-conventional way.

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2019

    Are they limited by her understanding though? That's never said.

    And again, it takes away from the narrative significance of that vision if it's any less than as catastrophic as was shown. It cheapens the drama of it.

  • @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    Are they limited by her understanding though? That's never said.

    And again, it takes away from the narrative significance of that vision if it's any less than as catastrophic as was shown. It cheapens the drama of it.

    Based on what we know from Glint, most likely.

    I don't agree. The vision shows any mundane attack against Kralkatorik will fail, meaning, any attempt to do what we did with Zhiatan and Mordremoth will fail. That's pretty big given that throwing a bunch of mooks in airships and tanks at the enemy has pretty much been our large scale victory plan for the past 6 years. It still retains its importance of "guys, anything we try to do the normal way is screwed!"

  • Castigator.3470Castigator.3470 Member ✭✭✭

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    Are they limited by her understanding though? That's never said.

    And again, it takes away from the narrative significance of that vision if it's any less than as catastrophic as was shown. It cheapens the drama of it.

    I'd say prophecy is a shaky business to begin with. Your predictions are not actually set in stone, but they can manifest. In this regard, prophecies are actually safer than visions, because they can be pretty vague. A vision like Aurene's confrontation rests on the commander attacking Kralkatorrik in a frontal assault. If we airdrop the commander onto Kralkatorrik from above and have him attack the elder dragon from the inside, the scenario of confrontation as shown in the vision will be useless, as it shows a path left untraveled. And that's a thing with seers and visions, you have to ask the right questions to get the right answers. The answer to what happens, if we assault Kralkatorrik is perfectly clear. A better question might have been "How do we fulfill Glint's Legacy?". If this returns a blank, the old plan might have been derailed too much and we'll have to improvise.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Considering Glint couldn't foresee her death, it's possible that Aurene is misunderstanding the visions?

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes, yes. All valid options, point still stands: Why show the vision in that case. Why make it such a dramatic storytelling device if nothing is going to come of it because "oh lol we'll just do what the vision didn't show!!!"

  • because it is a dramatic revelation for Aurene? An Aurene that is very young and unused to think about visions and prophecies? She just saw herself die over and over again, was shocked and ran away. As I would expect from a being that is almost a child. At that moment she lacked the capacity to see the ray of hope in there: that the vision showed the same attack over and over again.

    I am shocked that none of the oh-so-smart-characters saw it.

    This was a moment where Aurene needed guidance by an educated, intelligent being and all her comrades failed her. Because they are all idiots. Ryt, PC, Taimi... a bunch of windowlicking glue eaters.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2019

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    Are they limited by her understanding though? That's never said.

    And again, it takes away from the narrative significance of that vision if it's any less than as catastrophic as was shown. It cheapens the drama of it.

    From what we see, it's limited by Aurene's and the Commander's (thus the player's) understanding. The vision was showing us with various combinations of our current allies and weaponry. Be it Pact, Elonian alliance, Dragon's Watch, or the tools we've seen used (such as the Mega-LIT canon that took down Zhaitan - or possibly a modification of the Warbeast, hard to tell what the canon is meant to be).

    Thus the idea would then be that we're getting something that the Commander and Aurene do not know about, thus wasn't in any of those dozens of visions, and should in theory give us the edge over Kralkatorrik. Though Kralkatorrik has gotten far stronger than ever anticipated.

    The narrative significance is that, at the current moment, Aurene and her allies has no means of beating Kralkatorrik. The entire purpose of Episode 5 has so far been suggested to be about finding that means. I don't think that cheapens the drama at all. Not only is it bringing up the drama for the confrontation, but it's forcing the Commander to go out and explore while Kralkatorrik is getting stronger in the hopes of finding a means to prevent that vision.

    The vision's primary purpose is effectively to prolong the plot just a bit more by two releases. It prevents us from just going into the Mists and facing Kralkatorrik in Episode 4, and it's telling the Commander to not even try it because it'll be a failure.

    Obviously we will manage to beat Kralkatorrik. ArenaNet doesn't tell stories where the hero dies in the end, just stories where the heroes make things worse when solving the issues in front of them.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Can it still be a thing? Trying to convert him, instead of killing?

    Follow up line to that:

    Sadizi: Yes. The Forgotten dared to try, but the hunger of the Elder Dragons is too strong. It proved a tragic failure.

    If the Forgotten couldn't do it, I doubt anyone can, because ultimately, Kralkatorrik isn't enslaved like Glint was. He's the slaver.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Can it still be a thing? Trying to convert him, instead of killing?

    Follow up line to that:

    Sadizi: Yes. The Forgotten dared to try, but the hunger of the Elder Dragons is too strong. It proved a tragic failure.

    If the Forgotten couldn't do it, I doubt anyone can, because ultimately, Kralkatorrik isn't enslaved like Glint was. He's the slaver.

    Of course I read the full dialogue, but if they even dared to try, then they must have had reasons to do so. We don't know what or who failed, and why such powerful beings, as the Forgotten are, failed.
    Why did they even dared to try to convert Kralk, right? And where was Glint, when they were doing that? Are there any historical book that can help me find answers to those questions?

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2019

    We do know what failed... Sadizi states it right there. Kralkatorrik's hunger was too strong. They couldn't "purify" Kralkatorrik, despite working the ritual.

    Also, since Kralkatorrik was awake when the Forgotten tried, Glint was dead. That's where she was - six feet under (or rather, a few thousand feet in the sky in an airship being harvested for crystal and magic).

    The only question that remains is "why did the Forgotten think it could work?" Chances are, they probably had doubts it would, but thought along the lines of the old phrase nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    so they risked everything for something they could have predicted?

    But if it was after Glint's death, then why didn't they help her and Destiny's Edge out to bring down Kralkatorrik?

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2019

    I still think ArenaNet are making a massive mistake if they're going to go the route of "Oh you needed MacGuffin all along" that we're going to recover in less than a single episode, most likely, the episode after we got that disastrous vision that specifically focused on allies, not MacGuffins.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.