Fractal Firebrand and Quickness Thoughts? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Fractal Firebrand and Quickness Thoughts?

supermanboy.4592supermanboy.4592 Member

Hello everyone!

I was in a group with a firebrand recently. His group quickness and ability to pull mobs for mass aoe seemed really great. It was like being with a skilled chrono. Very smooth T4 run with lots of boons. Guardians are my first love, and seeing the great success of the run was inspiring. It seems like a great build for support, fractals or general world boss killing where people are everywhere.

Are FB a good alternative for chronos? We seemed to have quickness on all the time plus boons.

I have also read conflicting information about their dps. I thought they were full condi for huge burning. But I spoke to a frequent fractal'er, and he said his FB was zerker since it takes 10+ seconds for the full dps of a FB to get rolling. By then the mobs are dead, so you don't take full advantage of FB's dps. My last question, what are you thoughts on the following armour stats?

  • Viper is recommended since FB damage is a bit hybrid, physical and condi. Though you are a glass cannon with minimal survivability.
  • As previously mentioned, the FB I spoke to said he used zerker stats since condi didn't dps wouldn't get up to full steam until after the mobs are dead (10s after combat starts, since they were likely killed already).
  • I'm a fan of versatility and including survivability. I was thinking of celestial stats. Overall you get more attributes, and you get a decent amount of defense, hit points, and healing for the regen mantra. Yes this will impact damage, but you still get 4 damage attributes: Condi, power, precision and ferocity. To be honest, this seems like the best overall but I'd still like to hear your input.

In all cases, I'd use FB runes with the burning and +10% boon sigils. Thank you in advance for your advice!

Comments

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2019

    FB is rolling fractals atm, I even start to think to make second guardian and start playing FB. FBs I ran with were harrier in fractals, some with minstrel rings and /or amulet( I pug, they pug, they want some durability, we all know how unpredictable pugs can go :) ) All of them were over 150 AR to get benefits from fractal portions.
    This is the babysitting FBs I speak about.
    DPS should really be in glass cannon build as you have very little to worry about your survivability given you know mech and can dodge.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    I want to give-up on chrono because it's just so clunky to use in 5-man content. I'm also thinking about making a "carry" FB since I pug T4s everyday. So what's the build for that? Is it full harrier? Wouldn't that be overkill on boon duration with mist omnipots? Or should I not even bother min-maxing? Or maybe screw boon duration and go in full serk? Or just stop playing this game?

    Apathy is death.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    wait for diviner gear to come out

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2019

    The full Viper build is Quickbrand. Usually run with FB runes. Pretty much only provides perma quickness (minor Might and Fury, some Aegis), but has good dps, and burst isnt horrible due to burning being short high damage condition.

    If you want to carry (main healer, perma Quickness, 25 Might, perma Fury, Regen, Protection etc) , go full harrier FB, with some Magi or whatever else you prefer, due to free boon dura from potions for Fractals.

    Keep in mind, FB doesn't directly replace Chrono, unless you don't want Alacrity.
    You either run it with a Chrono, or a Rev, at least for difficult content like CM's.

    For T4's and Recs, sure, things die quickly enough that you don't really need Alacrity, and you can run Harrier FB, BS, 3 DPS.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    Our full zerker fb with pack runes, concentration sigil and soul pastries does about the dps of our bannerwarrior. Definitely depends on the amount of time we need to phase.
    For pulls you got GS5 + F1 tome, skill 3, which surprisingly is pretty much enough. Axe on occasion, though its not strictly necessary and a scepter is more dps imo.
    We are a bit struggling on might, but then we havent forced our bannerwarrior yet to run strength runes, only dumplings as food for PS trait to trigger.
    Precast on singularity usually is banners + alacrity (renegade ofc) + elite shout and mantras. GGing is generally kept to a bare minimum, since re-casting mantras is painful and eats just way too much time.
    For skips we either have a tempest or a daredevil, and everyone brings a xera portal.
    All in all, it works very well and is really quite comfortable. I honestly can say, that I wouldnt want to go back to chrono... alone the amount of time spent with chrono on singularity precast is ridiculous and totally destroys fractals for me.

    But this is current status, lets see what next tuesday brings. Either firebrand or renegade will have to be flexible to run as a healer maybe, and Im now rather swayed towards keeping renegade purely as a power specc and switching on firebrand. But this all depends on so many not-yet disclosed factors... like is the leaked instability rework really coming? How much extra dps would be boonrip on spb, how much for renegade. How much dmg do you get from certain instabilities... how much condi remove do you need.... do you need perma protection.... how much dps really IS power renegade with diviners, etc.

    For fractals, Id tell you to wait until tuesday.

  • stone cold.8609stone cold.8609 Member ✭✭✭

    I've tried Yasi's build (thanks again for sharing!) in lower level fractals and it works really well! I haven't geared it up for higher level fractals because I'm waiting to see what shakes out in the patch on Tuesday.

  • I pug t4 fractals each day too so yes, having the survivability is nice. Maybe I'll just make a FB with celestial for random world events and bosses to have my cake and eat it too without worrying about trying to keep up boons permanently. Though in the Palawadan events I've been testing FB in, it seems I don't heal since there is so much splash heal from everyone else + barriers, seems as though everyone is always topped up.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly, a harrier (or givers/minstrel) firebrand is a good investment. Worst case you can play it as healer or respectively healer-tank in raids, except VG mid and Deimos ranged you can tank everything on minstrel/givers firebrand quite nicely.

    Zerker firebrand atm might be just a fluke, I cant really tell yet. Or it might become the new meta in fractals with renegade on harrier for pugs. Who knows exactly whats gonna get preferred.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Zerker firebrand atm might be just a fluke, I cant really tell yet. Or it might become the new meta in fractals with renegade on harrier for pugs. Who knows exactly whats gonna get preferred.

    While Berserker Firebrand sounds meh, I think Diviner Firebrand may become a thing... If you run Retribution instead of Virtues, you can easily get 100% crit chance and some increased ferocity since you'll have 100% boon duration. And you can still run mantra of potency for that quickness for everyone.

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    You sacrifice way too much dmg that way, then you can also just go harrier fb and camp scepter.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Zerker firebrand atm might be just a fluke, I cant really tell yet. Or it might become the new meta in fractals with renegade on harrier for pugs. Who knows exactly whats gonna get preferred.

    While Berserker Firebrand sounds meh, I think Diviner Firebrand may become a thing... If you run Retribution instead of Virtues, you can easily get 100% crit chance and some increased ferocity since you'll have 100% boon duration. And you can still run mantra of potency for that quickness for everyone.

    Why does Berserker FB sound worse than Diviner? FB needs only 12% boon duration for perma quickness. Fractal potion overcaps that already. You don't run Virtues on a Berserker FB either.
    Diviner FB wont even become a thing in raids. Concentration sigil + 1-2 trinkets or food is enough there aswell. Or just condi with firebrand runes.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Zerker firebrand atm might be just a fluke, I cant really tell yet. Or it might become the new meta in fractals with renegade on harrier for pugs. Who knows exactly whats gonna get preferred.

    While Berserker Firebrand sounds meh, I think Diviner Firebrand may become a thing... If you run Retribution instead of Virtues, you can easily get 100% crit chance and some increased ferocity since you'll have 100% boon duration. And you can still run mantra of potency for that quickness for everyone.

    Why does Berserker FB sound worse than Diviner? FB needs only 12% boon duration for perma quickness. Fractal potion overcaps that already. You don't run Virtues on a Berserker FB either.
    Diviner FB wont even become a thing in raids. Concentration sigil + 1-2 trinkets or food is enough there aswell. Or just condi with firebrand runes.

    To give a higher uptime in the other boons? Last I checked, Firebrand also gave Protection, Fury, Regen, Retaliation, Vigor, Stability and Aegis. This is specially useful if you are running it with Renegade which only gives Alacrity and Might.

    Maybe it won't become meta, but it will definetely increase the speed of the runs of people running 2 pure supports.

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Zerker firebrand atm might be just a fluke, I cant really tell yet. Or it might become the new meta in fractals with renegade on harrier for pugs. Who knows exactly whats gonna get preferred.

    While Berserker Firebrand sounds meh, I think Diviner Firebrand may become a thing... If you run Retribution instead of Virtues, you can easily get 100% crit chance and some increased ferocity since you'll have 100% boon duration. And you can still run mantra of potency for that quickness for everyone.

    Why does Berserker FB sound worse than Diviner? FB needs only 12% boon duration for perma quickness. Fractal potion overcaps that already. You don't run Virtues on a Berserker FB either.
    Diviner FB wont even become a thing in raids. Concentration sigil + 1-2 trinkets or food is enough there aswell. Or just condi with firebrand runes.

    Part Diviner could make sense. Depends on how much gain can be had from not using Concentration sigil (difficult since 10% flat bonus is the highest you can get on sigils) and trinkets. Remember, 4 stat gear has more total stats meaning if you can compensate the loss in power for concentration in other areas, Diviner might outperform berserker in raids.

    For fractals, the already used potions cover everything needed.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    Zerker firebrand atm might be just a fluke, I cant really tell yet. Or it might become the new meta in fractals with renegade on harrier for pugs. Who knows exactly whats gonna get preferred.

    While Berserker Firebrand sounds meh, I think Diviner Firebrand may become a thing... If you run Retribution instead of Virtues, you can easily get 100% crit chance and some increased ferocity since you'll have 100% boon duration. And you can still run mantra of potency for that quickness for everyone.

    Why does Berserker FB sound worse than Diviner? FB needs only 12% boon duration for perma quickness. Fractal potion overcaps that already. You don't run Virtues on a Berserker FB either.
    Diviner FB wont even become a thing in raids. Concentration sigil + 1-2 trinkets or food is enough there aswell. Or just condi with firebrand runes.

    To give a higher uptime in the other boons? Last I checked, Firebrand also gave Protection, Fury, Regen, Retaliation, Vigor, Stability and Aegis. This is specially useful if you are running it with Renegade which only gives Alacrity and Might.

    Maybe it won't become meta, but it will definetely increase the speed of the runs of people running 2 pure supports.

    Dps Fb doesnt provide any of that boons except fury if he takes axe instead. Diviner is a power set. Run Support if you want to play support FB. The build you need to provide those boons is simply not worth it to run on a dps FB.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    In fractals its differently, at least atm for us since we arent a full static. We cant force pug power bs to run strength runes, we would never be able to fill that slot then. So, might and part of fury and protection has to be covered by firebrand as well.

    Might (ha!) be differently with the comp becoming more popular, but atm you have to get more boon duration than you need for quickness.

  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    I play both ren and FB (same equipment).
    If you want to play Quickness FB or a support class for PUG, play Harrier FB.
    When people will be more used to FB and Ren, Zerk or Vipere FB will be good too. I know people speak about zerk FB and so harrier Ren, but :

    • The stab/aegis/quickness/fury/resistance spam is just so good; it'd be an error if you pug alone to play without boon duration and healing, and may be not clear for others players, mostly if you don't play with a Ren.
      The "Bane signet share" is very strong. Virtues helps a lot too with a lil endurance boost, Master of consecration if Wall or Hallowed ground needed.

    • Harrier Ren can give 25 mights, perma alacrity and very strong powerbuff and heal; but people need to pack really really close or you'll have issue or with might or with alacrity; not very convenient in PUG or with certain instabilities, it will multiply support classes ... It's messier than FB.

    • Plus FB slots easier with more compo, because quickness take precedence over alacrity, and the boons spam.
  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    You can't give 70% quickness with that build. It will drop during longer fights and you won't have short fights with this build. That build can't have more than 50% quickness uptime during longer fights.
    Why don't you take the 2 quickness traits in the firebrand traitline? You could achieve 100% uptime with 12% boon duration and would lose nothing.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    What is the point of the build?

    I could rework the build with diviner and harrier to:

    • provide permanent stability, quickness, protection, fury and regeneration
    • provide way better healing and damage

    Those 30% quickness uptime you are missing (and I am going by your numbers, not saying that 70% uptime is achievable) are a dps loss to the group of around 3-4k per dps, so 10-15k total.

    The missing fury uptime is another dps loss.

    The missing protection uptime is a huge survival loss.

    Celestial stats are missing boon uptime. It is one of their main crucial flaws in the current game design. Your build is basically a jack of all healer/dps which lacks the essential boon support demanded from support builds. Making it a jack-of-half build in an arena where jack-of-all builds are already struggling.

    In short: any pure harrier support or quickness brand (either power or condi) would be of more value to your group. Given the dps loss due to lacking boons, a full harrier healer would improve the groups overall dps enough to make it surpass your 12-13k dps. A quickness brand would lose the mediocre healing and instead increase the groups dps through permanent boons and put out twice your personal dps at the very least.

  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    You can't give 70% quickness with that build. It will drop during longer fights and you won't have short fights with this build. That build can't have more than 50% quickness uptime during longer fights.
    Why don't you take the 2 quickness traits in the firebrand traitline? You could achieve 100% uptime with 12% boon duration and would lose nothing.

    if u go for that kind of traits then its best to build it full support and this is NOT a full support build its a jack of all trade u lose so much dmg from only 4 page and u cant get the dmg up on only 4 page that is why. offen the burst come when i go into burning book and its insane dmg
    first of all u dont have 30 % quickness you use the books the get a boost of quickness ea time you use them and most fight is done before 20 sec so it dont matter and this is still not a raid/T4 fractal build

    -the taits that give you 8 sec fury 10 sec/CD that need 3 burn to work i have 100 % uptime on fury

    -but this is still not a support and the 100 % uptime on protection is what a full support is for

    -Harriaer is not a good pick on FB if u go into the trait in honor and the grandmaster give you more outgoing healing when you have more vitality and that is a big buff to healing and minstreal work better on guard but it cant hit that is why i see the build lack at the healing part. If i pick that trait i get 21 % outgoing healing and i do the same healing Harriaer can do if i swap runes

  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    What is the point of the build?

    I could rework the build with diviner and harrier to:

    • provide permanent stability, quickness, protection, fury and regeneration
    • provide way better healing and damage

    Those 30% quickness uptime you are missing (and I am going by your numbers, not saying that 70% uptime is achievable) are a dps loss to the group of around 3-4k per dps, so 10-15k total.

    The missing fury uptime is another dps loss.

    The missing protection uptime is a huge survival loss.

    Celestial stats are missing boon uptime. It is one of their main crucial flaws in the current game design. Your build is basically a jack of all healer/dps which lacks the essential boon support demanded from support builds. Making it a jack-of-half build in an arena where jack-of-all builds are already struggling.

    In short: any pure harrier support or quickness brand (either power or condi) would be of more value to your group. Give the dps loss due to lacking boons, a full harrier healer would improve the groups overall dps enough to make it surpass your 12-13k dps. A quickness brand would lose the mediocre healing and instead increase the groups dps through permanent boons and put out twice your personal dps at the very least.

    the dmg in harrier is low dmg and u cant get the fury 100 % uptime on that. When u do this build you have high dmg in burning book and i think you need to try it to understand. when you have celestial stats most of the time i use the power part of FB i can go more into Burning and try axe but i dont have that yet so that why i use GS.

    -1 major give 1381 - 2 minor give 961 - 3 stats give Total 3303
    here u see i get about 2/3 of what the minor get so i lose some but 2/3 its not that much. and if u look at Major stats that is power celestial give total in dmg stats 2556
    power give 639
    crit hit give 639
    crit dmg give 639
    condition dmg give 639

    -2 major give 1173 - 2 minor give 633 -4 stats give total 3612
    and there i get more stats then the minor and that is why its not better if u go for minor healing or dmg

    -7 major celestial give u 639 and total 4473
    Celestial give 861 stats more then 4 stats in total and that is what im getting the free tank from and the 3 stats harrrier's have low dmg beside celestial. i think u see only full support and full dmg as a good build but you are missing the big picture.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    What is the point of the build?

    I could rework the build with diviner and harrier to:

    • provide permanent stability, quickness, protection, fury and regeneration
    • provide way better healing and damage

    Those 30% quickness uptime you are missing (and I am going by your numbers, not saying that 70% uptime is achievable) are a dps loss to the group of around 3-4k per dps, so 10-15k total.

    The missing fury uptime is another dps loss.

    The missing protection uptime is a huge survival loss.

    Celestial stats are missing boon uptime. It is one of their main crucial flaws in the current game design. Your build is basically a jack of all healer/dps which lacks the essential boon support demanded from support builds. Making it a jack-of-half build in an arena where jack-of-all builds are already struggling.

    In short: any pure harrier support or quickness brand (either power or condi) would be of more value to your group. Give the dps loss due to lacking boons, a full harrier healer would improve the groups overall dps enough to make it surpass your 12-13k dps. A quickness brand would lose the mediocre healing and instead increase the groups dps through permanent boons and put out twice your personal dps at the very least.

    the dmg in harrier is low dmg and u cant get the fury 100 % uptime on that.

    Yes you can, I do so regularly. Axe 2 or even sword 2 (which is strait up inferior to axe) is sufficient. You are wrong.

    You also provide permanent protection (which will be a significant advantage over you mediocre healing).

    Permanent stability is not as required since an experienced Firebrand can trigger stability on demand if needed, it is nice to have though.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    When u do this build you have high dmg in burning book and i think you need to try it to understand.

    You do not have high burning damage or high damage. Check the math behind damage calculation, this is plain wrong. Also your assumption you are 10% behind a pure dps is hilarious. Damage calculation in this game reward stat and multiplier stacking. This has been known since 2013, back when celestial was semi good since boon duration did not exist.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    when you have celestial stats most of the time i use the power part of FB i can go more into Burning and try axe but i dont have that yet so that why i use GS.

    -1 major give 1381 - 2 minor give 961 - 3 stats give Total 3303
    here u see i get about 2/3 of what the minor get so i lose some but 2/3 its not that much. and if u look at Major stats that is power celestial give total in dmg stats 2556
    power give 639
    crit hit give 639
    crit dmg give 639
    condition dmg give 639

    -2 major give 1173 - 2 minor give 633 -4 stats give total 3612
    and there i get more stats then the minor and that is why its not better if u go for minor healing or dmg

    -7 major celestial give u 639 and total 4473
    Celestial give 861 stats more then 4 stats in total and that is what im getting the free tank from and the 3 stats harrrier's have low dmg beside celestial. i think u see only full support and full dmg as a good build but you are missing the big picture.

    This is 2019, if you don't understand how damage in this game works and how stat stacking works and still consider celestial good for pve, that is not my problem. Total stats matter not when 2/7th of the stats are strait up useless (vitality and toughness add nothing to your group) and the remaining stats lack one of the most powerful multipliers in the game (boon duration for boon up-time). You are now relying on a pure support or a second mediocre jack-of-all-trades build to come in and cover for the lacking boon support. Both are a significant dps loss to the group.

    I'm going to repeat again, celestial is lacking boon duration. The loss in boon up-time alone will let a pure support build boost the groups performance past your personal dps while providing way superior healing. The quickbrand offensive support build will destroy you in terms of personal dps and group boon support to group.

  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    What is the point of the build?

    I could rework the build with diviner and harrier to:

    • provide permanent stability, quickness, protection, fury and regeneration
    • provide way better healing and damage

    Those 30% quickness uptime you are missing (and I am going by your numbers, not saying that 70% uptime is achievable) are a dps loss to the group of around 3-4k per dps, so 10-15k total.

    The missing fury uptime is another dps loss.

    The missing protection uptime is a huge survival loss.

    Celestial stats are missing boon uptime. It is one of their main crucial flaws in the current game design. Your build is basically a jack of all healer/dps which lacks the essential boon support demanded from support builds. Making it a jack-of-half build in an arena where jack-of-all builds are already struggling.

    In short: any pure harrier support or quickness brand (either power or condi) would be of more value to your group. Give the dps loss due to lacking boons, a full harrier healer would improve the groups overall dps enough to make it surpass your 12-13k dps. A quickness brand would lose the mediocre healing and instead increase the groups dps through permanent boons and put out twice your personal dps at the very least.

    the dmg in harrier is low dmg and u cant get the fury 100 % uptime on that.

    Yes you can, I do so regularly. Axe 2 or even sword 2 (which is strait up inferior to axe) is sufficient. You are wrong.

    You also provide permanent protection (which will be a significant advantage over you mediocre healing).

    Permanent stability is not as required since an experienced Firebrand can trigger stability on demand if needed, it is nice to have though.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    When u do this build you have high dmg in burning book and i think you need to try it to understand.

    You do not have high burning damage or high damage. Check the math behind damage calculation, this is plain wrong. Also your assumption you are 10% behind a pure dps is hilarious. Damage calculation in this game reward stat and multiplier stacking. This has been known since 2013, back when celestial was semi good since boon duration did not exist.

    Try it i said and see the burst that is power/condition dmg

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    when you have celestial stats most of the time i use the power part of FB i can go more into Burning and try axe but i dont have that yet so that why i use GS.

    -1 major give 1381 - 2 minor give 961 - 3 stats give Total 3303
    here u see i get about 2/3 of what the minor get so i lose some but 2/3 its not that much. and if u look at Major stats that is power celestial give total in dmg stats 2556
    power give 639
    crit hit give 639
    crit dmg give 639
    condition dmg give 639

    -2 major give 1173 - 2 minor give 633 -4 stats give total 3612
    and there i get more stats then the minor and that is why its not better if u go for minor healing or dmg

    -7 major celestial give u 639 and total 4473
    Celestial give 861 stats more then 4 stats in total and that is what im getting the free tank from and the 3 stats harrrier's have low dmg beside celestial. i think u see only full support and full dmg as a good build but you are missing the big picture.

    This is 2019, if you don't understand how damage in this game works and how stat stacking works and still consider celestial good for pve, that is not my problem. Total stats matter not when 2/7th of the stats are strait up useless (vitality and toughness add nothing to your group) and the remaining stats lack one of the most powerful multipliers in the game (boon duration for boon up-time). You are now relying on a pure support or a second mediocre jack-of-all-trades build to come in and cover for the lacking boon support. Both are a significant dps loss to the group.

    I'm going to repeat again, celestial is lacking boon duration. The loss in boon up-time alone will let a pure support build boost the groups performance past your personal dps while providing way superior healing. The quickbrand offensive support build will destroy you in terms of personal dps and group boon support to group.

    i dont think you know math i said that if you have 5 player and if all do the same dmg, ea player do about 20 % dmg for the team, if i go down in dmg to 10% but now i can heal/boons/utility/tank so lose 10 % dmg and get quickness that boost the attack speed 50 % is a big buff for the team. and i see player that give 0 boons for the team and have only dmg skills and this buff more then that kind of gameplay. (vitality and toughness add nothing to your group) ye i understand that but if you are down 20-50 % of the fight and we have to res you then we lost so much more dmg from that that is why i say you dont see the real picture i see that way to offen even exp player going down and the dmg is low on downstate. and after 10 times this is not Raids or T4 fractal so even when the other player give a little boons out and there is not problem in this kind of gameplay. but all i see u saying is that Boon spam/healing/max dps ye that work well in raid when u have more players. this can do a little lower healing then harrier and give a boons out at a lower rate, remove condition, reflect at a 10 % dps cost for the team.

    but so many player think its all about max dmg and that kind of close minde. the game promode more build then just max dps/boonspam/max healing that make this game so boring to not trying new builds and ye i have full dps builds and its so boring to play

    Power
    full zerker
    full marauder

    Support
    full harrier
    full minstral

    Condition
    full viper
    full grieving

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    i dont think you know math i said that if you have 5 player and if all do the same dmg, ea player do about 20 % dmg for the team,

    Incorrect, with a support setup (assuming 2 supports since that's what most PUGs run), you have 2 dps, 1 bannerslave, 2 supports.

    As such you end up with:

    • 2 dps doing the majority of the damage (in orders of around 15-30k depending on how good the players are)
    • 1 bs doing in the order of 12-25k
    • 2 supports which provide survivability and boons

    and the total damage of that group will surpass any group without such synergy by a lot, or people would not be running this. It is the prime example and proof that support boons can swing a groups performance past individual builds. We are talking over 4 years of meta by now. You will not reinvent the wheel, especially not with celestial stats.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    if i go down in dmg to 10% but now i can heal/boons/utility/tank so lose 10 % dmg and get quickness that boost the attack speed 50 % is a big buff for the team. and i see player that give 0 boons for the team and have only dmg skills and this buff more then that kind of gameplay.

    You are on a support slot, your damage is pathetic compared to a pure dps. The aforementioned supports will provide all those boons and more for the dps roles in your group. It's called group synergy. The dedicated healer will prevent people dying 100% better than you.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    (vitality and toughness add nothing to your group) ye i understand that but if you are down 20-50 % of the fight and we have to res you then we lost so much more dmg from that that is why i say you dont see the real picture i see that way to offen even exp player going down and the dmg is low on downstate.

    So we are assuming people are bad, okay works for me. Then rework your build to have some boon duration while running remainder celestial. That way you won't be totally useless.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    and after 10 times this is not for Raids or T4 fractal so even when the other player give a little boons out and there is not problem in this kind of gameplay. but all i see u saying is that Boon spam/healing/max dps ye that work well in raid when u have more players.

    Firebrand gives boons to 5 people (besides the recent change to "Stand Your Ground" which provides boons to 10 people) . Raids have nothing to do with any of this. What is so hard to understand that quickness provides a damage boost to your team. Permanent quickness provides an even bigger damage boost to your team.

    Yes, T1-T3 fractals (and even T4) can be run by untrained monkeys and in pretty much any gear someone wants. That is no proof that a build works. This build works for you? Great, have fun on it. Please do not recommend it to any one else though, when there is tons of superior builds available. Even this build could be made workable by simply applying some brain and boon duration.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    this can do a little lower healing then harrier and give a boons out at a lower rate, remove condition, reflect at a 10 % dps cost for the team

    This builds does a LOT lower healing compared to harrier FB, let's not sell the tripple +healing power short on harrier FB. Not to mention the lacking permanent protection which harrier FB provides.

  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    i dont think you know math i said that if you have 5 player and if all do the same dmg, ea player do about 20 % dmg for the team,

    Incorrect, with a support setup (assuming 2 supports since that's what most PUGs run), you have 2 dps, 1 bannerslave, 2 supports.

    As such you end up with:

    • 2 dps doing the majority of the damage (in orders of around 15-30k depending on how good the players are)
    • 1 bs doing in the order of 12-25k
    • 2 supports which provide survivability and boons and the total damage of that group will surpass any group without such synergy by a lot, or people would not be running this. It is the prime example and proof that support boons can swing a groups performance past individual builds. We are talking over 4 years of meta by now. You will not reinvent the wheel, especially not with celestial stats.

    ok see here if you have 5 player all do about 15 k dmg that is low dmg u say but the trader off is that all can heal/boon/utility and you say that this is a bad setup that the 5 player is focus on the teamplay. raid meta have gone this far just to caiter to fractal. like i said u have a close mind and all u see is raid spec and only 1 way of doing things

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    if i go down in dmg to 10% but now i can heal/boons/utility/tank so lose 10 % dmg and get quickness that boost the attack speed 50 % is a big buff for the team. and i see player that give 0 boons for the team and have only dmg skills and this buff more then that kind of gameplay.

    You are on a support slot, your damage is pathetic compared to a pure dps. The aforementioned supports will provide all those boons and more for the dps roles in your group. It's called group synergy. The dedicated healer will prevent people dying 100% better than you.

    >
    in T1-2 fractal i see no real point in going full support you are just use to much of that to stay alive and dungeon its usefull to have utility

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    (vitality and toughness add nothing to your group) ye i understand that but if you are down 20-50 % of the fight and we have to res you then we lost so much more dmg from that that is why i say you dont see the real picture i see that way to offen even exp player going down and the dmg is low on downstate.

    So we are assuming people are bad, okay works for me. Then rework your build to have some boon duration while running remainder celestial. That way you won't be totally useless.

    try the build and come back to me on in before u call it useless

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    and after 10 times this is not for Raids or T4 fractal so even when the other player give a little boons out and there is not problem in this kind of gameplay. but all i see u saying is that Boon spam/healing/max dps ye that work well in raid when u have more players.

    Firebrand gives boons to 5 people (besides the recent change to "Stand Your Ground" which provides boons to 10 people) . Raids have nothing to do with any of this. What is so hard to understand that quickness provides a damage boost to your team. Permanent quickness provides an even bigger damage boost to your team.

    i have no problem getting boon in the fight im doing so i dont see the problem

    Yes, T1-T3 fractals (and even T4) can be run by untrained monkeys and in pretty much any gear someone wants. That is no proof that a build works. This build works for you? Great, have fun on it. Please do not recommend it to any one else though, when there is tons of superior builds available. Even this build could be made workable by simply applying some brain and boon duration.

    i have no problem getting boon i need on this so i dont see the problem if we have all the boons we need. so we need more boons so we can play afk game braindead point

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    this can do a little lower healing then harrier and give a boons out at a lower rate, remove condition, reflect at a 10 % dps cost for the team

    This builds does a LOT lower healing compared to harrier FB, let's not sell the tripple +healing power short on harrier FB. Not to mention the lacking permanent protection which harrier FB provides.

    no it do 2/3 of harrier in healing and ye swap the rune to support you can do that. if u know just a little about stats then go look at it first before saying that

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    i dont think you know math i said that if you have 5 player and if all do the same dmg, ea player do about 20 % dmg for the team,

    Incorrect, with a support setup (assuming 2 supports since that's what most PUGs run), you have 2 dps, 1 bannerslave, 2 supports.

    As such you end up with:

    • 2 dps doing the majority of the damage (in orders of around 15-30k depending on how good the players are)
    • 1 bs doing in the order of 12-25k
    • 2 supports which provide survivability and boons and the total damage of that group will surpass any group without such synergy by a lot, or people would not be running this. It is the prime example and proof that support boons can swing a groups performance past individual builds. We are talking over 4 years of meta by now. You will not reinvent the wheel, especially not with celestial stats.

    ok see here if you have 5 player all do about 15 k dmg that is low dmg u say but the trader off is that all can heal/boon/utility and you say that this is a bad setup that the 5 player is focus on the team, and the setup is worst then that the raid meta have gone this far just to caiter to fractal. like i said u have a close mind and all u see is raid spec and only 1 way of doing things

    I don't see only 1 way of doing things. I see vast inefficiencies and not use of synergy. But be my guest, I'll wait till you actually meet difficult content or have played with adept people.

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    if i go down in dmg to 10% but now i can heal/boons/utility/tank so lose 10 % dmg and get quickness that boost the attack speed 50 % is a big buff for the team. and i see player that give 0 boons for the team and have only dmg skills and this buff more then that kind of gameplay.

    You are on a support slot, your damage is pathetic compared to a pure dps. The aforementioned supports will provide all those boons and more for the dps roles in your group. It's called group synergy. The dedicated healer will prevent people dying 100% better than you.

    >
    in T1-2 fractal i see no real point in going full support you are just use to much of that to stay alive and dungeon its usefull to have utility

    Yes, so go quickbrand and provide damage and permanent fury and quickness to your group.

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    (vitality and toughness add nothing to your group) ye i understand that but if you are down 20-50 % of the fight and we have to res you then we lost so much more dmg from that that is why i say you dont see the real picture i see that way to offen even exp player going down and the dmg is low on downstate.

    So we are assuming people are bad, okay works for me. Then rework your build to have some boon duration while running remainder celestial. That way you won't be totally useless.

    try the build and come back to me on in before u call it useless

    I HAVE tried celestial. I have tried celestial back when it actually was okayish, when no 4-stat combinations were in the game and no boon duration OR condition duration (both which are not on celestial and are the strongest stat multiplers in game). Stop making assumptions. Nothing since then has changed, on the contrary, celestial has become progressively worse since then.

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    and after 10 times this is not for Raids or T4 fractal so even when the other player give a little boons out and there is not problem in this kind of gameplay. but all i see u saying is that Boon spam/healing/max dps ye that work well in raid when u have more players.

    Firebrand gives boons to 5 people (besides the recent change to "Stand Your Ground" which provides boons to 10 people) . Raids have nothing to do with any of this. What is so hard to understand that quickness provides a damage boost to your team. Permanent quickness provides an even bigger damage boost to your team.

    i have no problem getting boon in the fight im doing so i dont see the problem

    Yes, T1-T3 fractals (and even T4) can be run by untrained monkeys and in pretty much any gear someone wants. That is no proof that a build works. This build works for you? Great, have fun on it. Please do not recommend it to any one else though, when there is tons of superior builds available. Even this build could be made workable by simply applying some brain and boon duration.

    i have no problem getting boon i need on this so i dont see the problem if we have all the boons we need. so we need more boons so we can play afk game braindead point

    You definitely do NOT have permanent boons on this build. For the x-th time, permanent boons would improve your builds performance AND your groups.

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    this can do a little lower healing then harrier and give a boons out at a lower rate, remove condition, reflect at a 10 % dps cost for the team

    This builds does a LOT lower healing compared to harrier FB, let's not sell the tripple +healing power short on harrier FB. Not to mention the lacking permanent protection which harrier FB provides.

    no it do 2/3 of harrier in healing and ye swap the rune to support you can do that. if u know just a little about stats then go look at it first before saying that

    Not even going to address this. You are stuck in 2013. Run your build. Don't come running here though when people kick you from T4 groups or question your usefulness or role. You want to occupy a dps slot with a celestial build, who am I to stop you from doing so.

    You remind me of the healing renegade we had 4-5 days ago. He said he'd switch to heal renegade, the group was fine with it. He provided 0 alacrity and bad healing. He was removed 2 tries later. Don't know what gear he was running, don't care. The group vote came up and I didn't even have time to click yes myself before he got removed. I switched to harrier FB and we moved on with another dps.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    Healing and personal dps are mutually exclusive in gw2, for good reasons, or we would all be unkillable killing machines.
    Hybrid builds in gw2 offer usually boonsupport + X, with X being either healing (most common) or dps. You can add some utility at cost of dps or healing, tanking for example, or aegis share, etc.

    Here's some advice for making boonsupport builds:
    1. Decide what you want to do with your build: dps or heal.
    2. Only bring boons that are needed in your teamcomp. Dont waste traits/utilities/skills on boons that another build can provide more comfortably/with less loss.
    3. You dont have to provide 100% Fury uptime, all power dps builds bring some already for themselves... or dont need it due to crit traits. Last I checked, holo with 50% uptime was the most needy dps, though that was in raids, in fractals its more like 43%.
    4. Always make sure to have enough boon duration to cover "your" boons. Its quite easy to calculate too... for example you have your quickness mantra that offers 2.5sec quickness on a 12sec recharge... with alacrity thats 12/1.25 = 9.6, make it 10 to be realistic recharge time. Its 2.5sec every 10sec -> 2.5/10 = 0.25 ergo 25% quickness uptime through mantra with alacrity on you. Your elite skill is 45/1.25 = 36sec cooldown and offers 8sec quickness -> 8/36 = 0.22 -> 22% + 25% = 47% quickness uptime, so you'd need another 53% uptime. 53/47 = 1.13 -> 113% boon duration, but its capped at 100%, so you need another source of quickness in form of traits or skills.
    5. Dont neglect seemingly less useful boons like swiftness.

    So, and because it has been a bit since I posted here... berserker firebrand + harrier renegade definitely works very well for more casual fractal cms+t4 clearing. Thanks to instability rework you can stack better now, so might from renegade is a nice addition to might from bannerwarrior. Compared to druid+chrono you get roughly 25-30k more dps out of it (firebrand dps + kalla elite + AP), with more healing/aegis/stability at the same time.

  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    i dont think you know math i said that if you have 5 player and if all do the same dmg, ea player do about 20 % dmg for the team,

    Incorrect, with a support setup (assuming 2 supports since that's what most PUGs run), you have 2 dps, 1 bannerslave, 2 supports.

    As such you end up with:

    • 2 dps doing the majority of the damage (in orders of around 15-30k depending on how good the players are)
    • 1 bs doing in the order of 12-25k
    • 2 supports which provide survivability and boons and the total damage of that group will surpass any group without such synergy by a lot, or people would not be running this. It is the prime example and proof that support boons can swing a groups performance past individual builds. We are talking over 4 years of meta by now. You will not reinvent the wheel, especially not with celestial stats.

    ok see here if you have 5 player all do about 15 k dmg that is low dmg u say but the trader off is that all can heal/boon/utility and you say that this is a bad setup that the 5 player is focus on the team, and the setup is worst then that the raid meta have gone this far just to caiter to fractal. like i said u have a close mind and all u see is raid spec and only 1 way of doing things

    I don't see only 1 way of doing things. I see vast inefficiencies and not use of synergy. But be my guest, I'll wait till you actually meet difficult content or have played with adept people.

    the 5 on a little lower dmg have better synergy and can do more when needed but this mindset come from wow and the way there doing that game Gw2 was never and have never been about the holy trinity and so many player force this on the game and want to be wow 2.0

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    if i go down in dmg to 10% but now i can heal/boons/utility/tank so lose 10 % dmg and get quickness that boost the attack speed 50 % is a big buff for the team. and i see player that give 0 boons for the team and have only dmg skills and this buff more then that kind of gameplay.

    You are on a support slot, your damage is pathetic compared to a pure dps. The aforementioned supports will provide all those boons and more for the dps roles in your group. It's called group synergy. The dedicated healer will prevent people dying 100% better than you.

    >
    in T1-2 fractal i see no real point in going full support you are just use to much of that to stay alive and dungeon its usefull to have utility

    Yes, so go quickbrand and provide damage and permanent fury and quickness to your group.

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    (vitality and toughness add nothing to your group) ye i understand that but if you are down 20-50 % of the fight and we have to res you then we lost so much more dmg from that that is why i say you dont see the real picture i see that way to offen even exp player going down and the dmg is low on downstate.

    So we are assuming people are bad, okay works for me. Then rework your build to have some boon duration while running remainder celestial. That way you won't be totally useless.

    try the build and come back to me on in before u call it useless

    I HAVE tried celestial. I have tried celestial back when it actually was okayish, when no 4-stat combinations were in the game and no boon duration OR condition duration (both which are not on celestial and are the strongest stat multiplers in game). Stop making assumptions. Nothing since then has changed, on the contrary, celestial has become progressively worse since then.

    core and FB is not the same and FB came in PoF after 4 stats came so i dont get that point

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    and after 10 times this is not for Raids or T4 fractal so even when the other player give a little boons out and there is not problem in this kind of gameplay. but all i see u saying is that Boon spam/healing/max dps ye that work well in raid when u have more players.

    Firebrand gives boons to 5 people (besides the recent change to "Stand Your Ground" which provides boons to 10 people) . Raids have nothing to do with any of this. What is so hard to understand that quickness provides a damage boost to your team. Permanent quickness provides an even bigger damage boost to your team.

    i have no problem getting boon in the fight im doing so i dont see the problem

    Yes, T1-T3 fractals (and even T4) can be run by untrained monkeys and in pretty much any gear someone wants. That is no proof that a build works. This build works for you? Great, have fun on it. Please do not recommend it to any one else though, when there is tons of superior builds available. Even this build could be made workable by simply applying some brain and boon duration.

    i have no problem getting boon i need on this so i dont see the problem if we have all the boons we need. so we need more boons so we can play afk game braindead point

    You definitely do NOT have permanent boons on this build. For the x-th time, permanent boons would improve your builds performance AND your groups.

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    this can do a little lower healing then harrier and give a boons out at a lower rate, remove condition, reflect at a 10 % dps cost for the team

    This builds does a LOT lower healing compared to harrier FB, let's not sell the tripple +healing power short on harrier FB. Not to mention the lacking permanent protection which harrier FB provides.

    no it do 2/3 of harrier in healing and ye swap the rune to support you can do that. if u know just a little about stats then go look at it first before saying that

    Not even going to address this. You are stuck in 2013. Run your build. Don't come running here though when people kick you from T4 groups or question your usefulness or role. You want to occupy a dps slot with a celestial build, who am I to stop you from doing so.

    You remind me of the healing renegade we had 4-5 days ago. He said he'd switch to heal renegade, the group was fine with it. He provided 0 alacrity and bad healing. He was removed 2 tries later. Don't know what gear he was running, don't care. The group vote came up and I didn't even have time to click yes myself before he got removed. I switched to harrier FB and we moved on with another dps.

    you keep saying that i cant run it in T4 and i said that this was not that T4. you keep coming back to that raid/T4 mindless agument i have nothing to say here

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 Im sorry, but this thread is about t4 fractals. Though even for other content your build really is quite inefficient. You are trying to do it all, but doing dps and healing others are two polar opposites in gw2. You have to sacrifice so much for the other, that in the end you dont end up with a 50/50 split, but rather with a 20/20 split. 20% of possible dps and 20% of possible healing. Which means, your build limits you already to only perform at 40% max.
    Can you do t1 fractals or openworld with your build? Sure. But thats not because your build is good, but rather because the requirement in that content is so low. In content that requires you to pull your own weight and then some? Sorry, but no.

  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    @Sylli.3891 Im sorry, but this thread is about t4 fractals. Though even for other content your build really is quite inefficient. You are trying to do it all, but doing dps and healing others are two polar opposites in gw2. You have to sacrifice so much for the other, that in the end you dont end up with a 50/50 split, but rather with a 20/20 split. 20% of possible dps and 20% of possible healing. Which means, your build limits you already to only perform at 40% max.
    Can you do t1 fractals or openworld with your build? Sure. But thats not because your build is good, but rather because the requirement in that content is so low. In content that requires you to pull your own weight and then some? Sorry, but no.

    but im not 20/20 if i do 15 k dmg then that is 50 % of max dps and the healing is 2/3 of healing stats so i get 66% the healing and still free tank stats so its more like 50/66 this can use for utility and alot more then full dmg

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Yasi.9065 said:
    @Sylli.3891 Im sorry, but this thread is about t4 fractals. Though even for other content your build really is quite inefficient. You are trying to do it all, but doing dps and healing others are two polar opposites in gw2. You have to sacrifice so much for the other, that in the end you dont end up with a 50/50 split, but rather with a 20/20 split. 20% of possible dps and 20% of possible healing. Which means, your build limits you already to only perform at 40% max.
    Can you do t1 fractals or openworld with your build? Sure. But thats not because your build is good, but rather because the requirement in that content is so low. In content that requires you to pull your own weight and then some? Sorry, but no.

    but im not 20/20 if i do 15 k dmg then that is 50 % of max dps and the healing is 2/3 of healing stats so i get 66% the healing and still free tank stats so its more like 50/66 this can use for utility and alot more then full dmg

    Read Yasi's thread on Fireband. Here I'll link it:

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64123/the-mysterious-fb-ren-comp#latest

    If you are doing 15k damage when someone on your slot in the party should be doing 20-30k damage, then your damage is bad.

    If you are not providing permanent boons or sufficient boons on your slot in the party, then your boon support is bad.

    If you are not providing very good healing on your slot in group (and please once again notice, there are no pure healer builds of value in pve which do not also bring utility), then your healing build is bad.

    This game is built around optimization and role distribution. I have already given you a recommendation as to how to remain a jack-of-all trades build but improving on your inefficient build: bring up your boon duration to a level where you can function as party support since that is the only slot your build might work on.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    you keep saying that i cant run it in T4 and i said that this was not that T4. you keep coming back to that raid/T4 mindless agument i have nothing to say here

    Nobody cares about T1-T3. Nobody cares about open world. Everything works in those areas. A build working there means nothing besides personal enjoyment. Even so, with at least sufficient boon duration for permanent quickness, your own build would work better in open world too.

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    core and FB is not the same and FB came in PoF after 4 stats came so i dont get that point

    Yes it is, because damage calculations which are relevant did not change (well technically they did, but not in favor of celestial). As such it makes no difference.

    If your Firebrand provides X amount of burning, and your guardian provided Y amount of burning, both builds provided respective amounts of damage meaning the base guardian provided Z amount more damage in condition gear over celestial (same as the Firebrand now). In all cases celestial was inferior back then.

    Now add in that BOON DURATION and CONDITION DURATION were added to the game (both not present on celestial, both absolutely required for optimization) and it is easy to realize that celestial is in a worse place than during vanilla. Basic logic.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    You can't give 70% quickness with that build. It will drop during longer fights and you won't have short fights with this build. That build can't have more than 50% quickness uptime during longer fights.
    Why don't you take the 2 quickness traits in the firebrand traitline? You could achieve 100% uptime with 12% boon duration and would lose nothing.

    if u go for that kind of traits then its best to build it full support and this is NOT a full support build its a jack of all trade u lose so much dmg from only 4 page and u cant get the dmg up on only 4 page that is why. offen the burst come when i go into burning book and its insane dmg

    You are just wrong here and overestimate the damage of burning tome 1. Even a full condi fb doesn't take that trait because you would end with just 3 more tome 1 aa's. The damage comes from skill 2-5.
    I highly doubt that you can do 15k dps with that build. If you see a 15k number this doesn't mean 15k dps. What people here are talking about are 15-30k damage every second for fights that last up to minutes.
    You don't have any condi duration -> condi damage only half as effective. You are not running condi weapons or traits either so most of your condi stats are wasted. A trailblazer fb with firebrand runes would have higher boon output, higher dmg and higher survivability. Seraph stats would you allow to heal aswell.
    People here already pointed out that you try to do 2 things at the same time. But you actually trying to do 3 things. Condi dps, Power dps and healer. You waste way too many stats that way.
    If you phase bosses in t2 or t3 fractals below 20seconds its not because of you but because of at least one good dps player carrying you hard.

  • Sylli.3891Sylli.3891 Member ✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    You can't give 70% quickness with that build. It will drop during longer fights and you won't have short fights with this build. That build can't have more than 50% quickness uptime during longer fights.
    Why don't you take the 2 quickness traits in the firebrand traitline? You could achieve 100% uptime with 12% boon duration and would lose nothing.

    if u go for that kind of traits then its best to build it full support and this is NOT a full support build its a jack of all trade u lose so much dmg from only 4 page and u cant get the dmg up on only 4 page that is why. offen the burst come when i go into burning book and its insane dmg

    You are just wrong here and overestimate the damage of burning tome 1. Even a full condi fb doesn't take that trait because you would end with just 3 more tome 1 aa's. The damage comes from skill 2-5.
    I highly doubt that you can do 15k dps with that build. If you see a 15k number this doesn't mean 15k dps. What people here are talking about are 15-30k damage every second for fights that last up to minutes.
    You don't have any condi duration -> condi damage only half as effective. You are not running condi weapons or traits either so most of your condi stats are wasted. A trailblazer fb with firebrand runes would have higher boon output, higher dmg and higher survivability. Seraph stats would you allow to heal aswell.
    People here already pointed out that you try to do 2 things at the same time. But you actually trying to do 3 things. Condi dps, Power dps and healer. You waste way too many stats that way.
    If you phase bosses in t2 or t3 fractals below 20seconds its not because of you but because of at least one good dps player carrying you hard.

    and you'r thet 1 that dont understand FB and ye 15k is the dmg ea sec for a min its dmg is not that low i did that when i have 0 buffs from food and 0 fractal buffs so i think u can even go higher but like i said come back to me when you know how to play it and have tryed the build, so many of you guys dont understand all u see is full meta close minded and raid/wow mindset go player wow if u need to use the holy trinity this is not wow and you have to understand what balance stats is and jack of all trade. this is pointless to keep going on and on

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    You can't give 70% quickness with that build. It will drop during longer fights and you won't have short fights with this build. That build can't have more than 50% quickness uptime during longer fights.
    Why don't you take the 2 quickness traits in the firebrand traitline? You could achieve 100% uptime with 12% boon duration and would lose nothing.

    if u go for that kind of traits then its best to build it full support and this is NOT a full support build its a jack of all trade u lose so much dmg from only 4 page and u cant get the dmg up on only 4 page that is why. offen the burst come when i go into burning book and its insane dmg

    You are just wrong here and overestimate the damage of burning tome 1. Even a full condi fb doesn't take that trait because you would end with just 3 more tome 1 aa's. The damage comes from skill 2-5.
    I highly doubt that you can do 15k dps with that build. If you see a 15k number this doesn't mean 15k dps. What people here are talking about are 15-30k damage every second for fights that last up to minutes.
    You don't have any condi duration -> condi damage only half as effective. You are not running condi weapons or traits either so most of your condi stats are wasted. A trailblazer fb with firebrand runes would have higher boon output, higher dmg and higher survivability. Seraph stats would you allow to heal aswell.
    People here already pointed out that you try to do 2 things at the same time. But you actually trying to do 3 things. Condi dps, Power dps and healer. You waste way too many stats that way.
    If you phase bosses in t2 or t3 fractals below 20seconds its not because of you but because of at least one good dps player carrying you hard.

    and you'r thet 1 that dont understand FB and ye 15k is the dmg ea sec for a min its dmg is not that low i did that when i have 0 buffs from food and 0 fractal buffs so i think u can even go higher but like i said come back to me when you know how to play it and have tryed the build so much that you guys dont understand all u see is full meta close minded and raid/wow mindset

    Put on arcdps, see for yourself. Or go to the damage golem and run your rotation for 1 minute at least. Then come back to us and tell us you were doing 15k dps.

    You are literally telling multiple people who have a way better grasp and knowledge of this game, it's mechanics and proper builds (not to mention your class, you weren't even aware FB can provide permanent fury) that they are clueless. That is some arrogance right there.

    As they say though: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    You can't give 70% quickness with that build. It will drop during longer fights and you won't have short fights with this build. That build can't have more than 50% quickness uptime during longer fights.
    Why don't you take the 2 quickness traits in the firebrand traitline? You could achieve 100% uptime with 12% boon duration and would lose nothing.

    if u go for that kind of traits then its best to build it full support and this is NOT a full support build its a jack of all trade u lose so much dmg from only 4 page and u cant get the dmg up on only 4 page that is why. offen the burst come when i go into burning book and its insane dmg

    You are just wrong here and overestimate the damage of burning tome 1. Even a full condi fb doesn't take that trait because you would end with just 3 more tome 1 aa's. The damage comes from skill 2-5.
    I highly doubt that you can do 15k dps with that build. If you see a 15k number this doesn't mean 15k dps. What people here are talking about are 15-30k damage every second for fights that last up to minutes.
    You don't have any condi duration -> condi damage only half as effective. You are not running condi weapons or traits either so most of your condi stats are wasted. A trailblazer fb with firebrand runes would have higher boon output, higher dmg and higher survivability. Seraph stats would you allow to heal aswell.
    People here already pointed out that you try to do 2 things at the same time. But you actually trying to do 3 things. Condi dps, Power dps and healer. You waste way too many stats that way.
    If you phase bosses in t2 or t3 fractals below 20seconds its not because of you but because of at least one good dps player carrying you hard.

    and you'r thet 1 that dont understand FB and ye 15k is the dmg ea sec for a min its dmg is not that low i did that when i have 0 buffs from food and 0 fractal buffs so i think u can even go higher but like i said come back to me when you know how to play it and have tryed the build so much that you guys dont understand all u see is full meta close minded and raid/wow mindset

    Put on arcdps, see for yourself. Or go to the damage golem and run your rotation for 1 minute at least. Then come back to us and tell us you were doing 15k dps.

    You are literally telling multiple people who have a way better grasp and knowledge of this game, it's mechanics and proper builds (not to mention your class, you weren't even aware FB can provide permanent fury) that they are clueless. That is some arrogance right there.

    As they say though: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

    i have allways said u can have 100 % uptime on fury go back and read before speaking and make bad statment

    first of all stop this about that i dont understand the game and if you have to roste me for 0 reason and the arrogane and ignorent that you have and dont understand what balance stats and dont know jack of all trade. like i said its pointless going on and on

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    im playing Fb as a Celestial FB and it work wonders i dont have the magic number but i can support/dps and tank at the same time, The celestial Fb is jack of all trads but master of non i have no problem getting the DPS on 13-15 k dmg. FB can use the utility from all stats to help it and can be a good baby sitter in most dungeon/fractal here is my build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVMQJARWnsADFBjtCBOCDEEhlACDbF8d2BWBgsVcaPieR7oA-jBCBABQcBBSUXDDHCBHVCamyPSV/Jm9HA4JFsOYAYmkJZm5MzMTjMzMzMzUEA7YA-e

    That build has 0 boon duration. Now with Fractal Potions and Boon duration food and Sigil of concentration that might be fine (you have neither boon duration food nor sigil of concentration in that build).

    What you linked to is basically a mediocre healer build and mediocre damage build with low boon support and duration.

    Sorry, but unless you forgot something, that build can be improved on, a lot.

    you dont know the meaning in jack of all trads, you dont have to use the same traits and that the point of the build u can go for what u need and is was never a full support or max dps but the utility is great i dont see use for boon duration but u can go and swap the runes out to get it, i have no problem having full uptime on Reg/Retaliation/might/fury/ i get about 70 % on quickness and about 40 % on stab. but u cant do dps when u laying down on u full max dmg build i see that way to offen, this way u can help the group and still do ok dmg. its only build for a team not to rush fractal or dungeon but the runs are way more smooth. if u look at it this way u have 5 player and ea player do about 20 % dmg. i give up 10 % dmg and i give quickness that give 50% faster attack speed so i can buff the team more then we lose from the 10% dps. I can still give out boons and heal if needed and its was never a T4 fractal or raid build but its soild

    You can't give 70% quickness with that build. It will drop during longer fights and you won't have short fights with this build. That build can't have more than 50% quickness uptime during longer fights.
    Why don't you take the 2 quickness traits in the firebrand traitline? You could achieve 100% uptime with 12% boon duration and would lose nothing.

    if u go for that kind of traits then its best to build it full support and this is NOT a full support build its a jack of all trade u lose so much dmg from only 4 page and u cant get the dmg up on only 4 page that is why. offen the burst come when i go into burning book and its insane dmg

    You are just wrong here and overestimate the damage of burning tome 1. Even a full condi fb doesn't take that trait because you would end with just 3 more tome 1 aa's. The damage comes from skill 2-5.
    I highly doubt that you can do 15k dps with that build. If you see a 15k number this doesn't mean 15k dps. What people here are talking about are 15-30k damage every second for fights that last up to minutes.
    You don't have any condi duration -> condi damage only half as effective. You are not running condi weapons or traits either so most of your condi stats are wasted. A trailblazer fb with firebrand runes would have higher boon output, higher dmg and higher survivability. Seraph stats would you allow to heal aswell.
    People here already pointed out that you try to do 2 things at the same time. But you actually trying to do 3 things. Condi dps, Power dps and healer. You waste way too many stats that way.
    If you phase bosses in t2 or t3 fractals below 20seconds its not because of you but because of at least one good dps player carrying you hard.

    and you'r thet 1 that dont understand FB and ye 15k is the dmg ea sec for a min its dmg is not that low i did that when i have 0 buffs from food and 0 fractal buffs so i think u can even go higher but like i said come back to me when you know how to play it and have tryed the build so much that you guys dont understand all u see is full meta close minded and raid/wow mindset

    Put on arcdps, see for yourself. Or go to the damage golem and run your rotation for 1 minute at least. Then come back to us and tell us you were doing 15k dps.

    You are literally telling multiple people who have a way better grasp and knowledge of this game, it's mechanics and proper builds (not to mention your class, you weren't even aware FB can provide permanent fury) that they are clueless. That is some arrogance right there.

    As they say though: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

    i have allways said u can have 100 % uptime on fury go back and read before speaking and make bad statment

    first of all stop this about that i dont understand the game and if you have to roste me for 0 reason and the arrogane and ignorent that you have and dont understand what balance stats and dont know jack of all trade. like i said its pointless going on and on

    You earlier today:

    @Sylli.3891 said:
    the dmg in harrier is low dmg and u cant get the fury 100 % uptime on that.

    Anyway, it's okay. You don't want to take advice. Fine. Play your build. We tried.

    For anyone reading the thread, here some links:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64123/the-mysterious-fb-ren-comp#latest - Yasis's summery and guide on Firebrand with discussion
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Firebrand_-_Support_Healer - the metabattle guide to support Firebrand
    https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/support/ - the snowcrows support Firebrand build
    https://snowcrows.com/raids/guides/guardian/firebrand/support/ - the snowcrows support Firebrand build explanation and how to play guide

    If building one, make sure to decide on fractal or raids as build, since fractal potions can change the gear used in fractals (the innate low hit points of guardian can make it tricky to play if inexperienced). Second decision would be if to run pure healer, or quickbrand support.

  • How about this: If I have two ascended armor sets on Guardian, as im coming back to the game, what should I make those two to get the most out of Fractals/Raids?

    I'm not interested in using them on warrior/rev at this moment.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malpractice.7850 said:
    How about this: If I have two ascended armor sets on Guardian, as im coming back to the game, what should I make those two to get the most out of Fractals/Raids?

    I'm not interested in using them on warrior/rev at this moment.

    If you are dead set on guardian, I'd say one of the sets should be berserker for power Dragonhunter. The benefit here is you can use this set for core bannerslave as well.

    The second set is up to you. You can go with harrier for heal/support Firebrand (and heal/support Renegade) or viper for burn guardian (and condi bannerslave/warrior, condi renegade).

    I would probably start with berserker DH and get back into the game a bit. Then decide which other role you want to learn to play.

    Bannerslave (core warrior as well as condi) is probably the most sought-after build from the heavy classes.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    kitten, not even wvw cele firebrand is a thing anymore with HoT and PoF stats... Celestial FB is plain bad.

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