Ban ArcDPS and any third party program

[Ashen.2907]

@TokenG.7863 said:Some day people might wake up and realize there's more to life than min/maxing and how fast you get there. At some point you notice that the journey is what counts, and how many relationships you pass up by being close minded. Until you get to that point, enjoy the exclusivity that will eventually dwindle.That goes for gaming as well.

Someday some people will wake up and realize that min/maxing, etc, is about the journey. The fact that different people enjoy different journeys in different ways shouldnt be a surprise in this day and age.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@TokenG.7863 said:Some day people might wake up and realize there's more to life than min/maxing and how fast you get there. At some point you notice that the journey is what counts, and how many relationships you pass up by being close minded. Until you get to that point, enjoy the exclusivity that will eventually dwindle.That goes for gaming as well.

Someday some people will wake up and realize that min/maxing, etc, is about the journey. The fact that different people enjoy different journeys in different ways shouldnt be a surprise in this day and age.

Plus the destinations are different. A marathoner's experience running is different from that of a jogger, which differs from that of someone who sticks to the treadmill at the gym. There's nothing wrong with paying little attention to builds or the TP; the game is enjoyable without it. But there's also different sorts of things to enjoy for those who dishing out more damage or pushing 0.5% more damage or making the most of their loot via the TP.

[phys.7689]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Applejuice.4083 said:How do you expect people to learn and stay end game, when its filled with elitism?

Was it a training run? If it wasn't then don't join a group that wants to finish the content and instead find one that offers training. The fault is on the player that joined the wrong group.

@Mea.5491 said:We had fun and that's what matters in a video game.

If you find endless wipes fun then that's good for you. On the other hand, I'm positive lots of players prefer smooth runs.

Nowadays if your gear is not perfect, if you make one little mistake in your rotation or if your damage is

MUCH MUCH

lower than expected

Correct that. Nobody is getting kicked for doing low damage. Kicks happen when someone playing a DPS build deals less damage than the support. Simply auto-attacking would result in the DPS doing way more damage, so they must be doing something fundamentally wrong. Which is why they are kicked in the first place.

people start cursing and kick you out of the group instead of encouraging you to get better. :astonished:

The astonishing part is about how entitled some players feel these days. Entitled to the time and effort of others. By disrespecting the rest of the team you don't earn respect back. Respect the time of others and they will respect you back.

your bias is strong, its clear that you are basing your opinion on how things are in your side of the world.

1st of all, he says this happened in ascalon. There isnt a large amount of ascalon training runs, nor is dps a major factor there. also you seem to assume unless something is marked as training, players should expect it to be a pro run. I would say any run not labeled, should be expected to fairly unknown.

endless wipes, well unless everyone is guaranteed to be pro, difficult content probably has wipes. The only way this is avoided is by assuring everyone has experience, aka static groups or communities. Its fine to seek other skilled players, but its a bit backwards to do it after the group is formed, or expecting random pugs to post top teir numbers.

Also, yes some people get kicked for low numbers. People have been kicked for even less than that so its not surprising. Just because your associates don't do it, doesnt mean it isnt done.

also your claims of entitlement and respect are clearly based on your own anecdotes and assumptions, instead of based on what these players are claiming. They might be lying, or mistaken, but based on what they said, they are not disrespecting everyone's time. If they joined groups that posted no clearly stated expectations, they should have none.

if the group as a whole decides that they need to restructure or become more stringent, then they are basically the ones changing the deal, and while its going to happen, its not the random player's fault for being random. They would be the one disrespecting the other player.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Darn. Those rose-tinted glasses for dungeon based elitism.

Back when only a few classes were allowed at all.

When it really only meant a few seconds difference but people made a huge deal.

Oh wait.

[maddoctor.2738]

@phys.7689 said:1st of all, he says this happened in ascalon. There isnt a large amount of ascalon training runs, nor is dps a major factor there. also you seem to assume unless something is marked as training, players should expect it to be a pro run. I would say any run not labeled, should be expected to fairly unknown.

First, any run that has no label is a run from players that want to finish said content. Expecting them to teach/train you makes no sense. Further, they said about Ascalon, I don't believe it. Also, they might've been afk for the entire run and got kicked because of it.

The only way this is avoided is by assuring everyone has experience, aka static groups or communities.

Or by asking for experienced players to join your group, and expect that such players do join it and not liars and frauds. But I guess asking for basic English language comprehension is too much for some players.

Also, yes some people get kicked for low numbers.

I'd like to see logs/pictures of that happening.

also your claims of entitlement and respect are clearly based on your own anecdotes and assumptions, instead of based on what these players are claiming. They might be lying, or mistaken, but based on what they said, they are not disrespecting everyone's time. If they joined groups that posted no clearly stated expectations, they should have none.

Actually there is nothing in their post indicating the type of group they joined.

[obcan.1470]

I have better idea buddy, instead of joining "ALL PATHS SPEED RUN" party, you could not fucking join a speed run? Or better fucking yet, CREATE YOUR OWN FUCKING RUN WHERE YOU WILL EXPLICITLY NOTE THAT EVERYONE IS WELCOME. Ban ArcDPS? Why? So people wont realize who is wasting their time in raid? What a great idea mate!

[Astralporing.1957]

@TokenG.7863 said:Some day people might wake up and realize there's more to life than min/maxing and how fast you get there. At some point you notice that the journey is what countsIn a way, most of the things we're talking about is abour the journey. Some people prefer to journey smooth and easy, in comfort. Other have no problem with occasional bumps on the way. Some actually enjoy the bumps and like crazy rides. Some do not want to fear every second of the ride whether they'll crash or not. Others do not care as long as they get to destination eventually.

Some of those people should not journey together, or it's going to be painful for them.

[mauried.5608]

I left WOW for that very reason.I was a healer and the DPS meters not only measured player damage, they also measured how much healing the healer did.I frequently got booted for not healing enough, even though no one died and we got thru the content, but not fast enuf apparently, as the suicide tanks used to simply rush into battle with the bosses, assuming they were invincible because of the healer in the group would keep them alive no matter what.The problem with WOW, and this game is that all battles have to be done as fast as possible, even though most have no time limit and the rewards are the same no matter how long it takes.

[Linken.6345]

@mauried.5608 said:I left WOW for that very reason.I was a healer and the DPS meters not only measured player damage, they also measured how much healing the healer did.I frequently got booted for not healing enough, even though no one died and we got thru the content, but not fast enuf apparently, as the suicide tanks used to simply rush into battle with the bosses, assuming they were invincible because of the healer in the group would keep them alive no matter what.The problem with WOW, and this game is that all battles have to be done as fast as possible, even though most have no time limit and the rewards are the same no matter how long it takes.

Not true for wow anymore you get more rewards the faster you are up to a point ofcourse, in mythic dungeons mate.

[phys.7689]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@phys.7689 said:1st of all, he says this happened in ascalon. There isnt a large amount of ascalon training runs, nor is dps a major factor there. also you seem to assume unless something is marked as training, players should expect it to be a pro run. I would say any run not labeled, should be expected to fairly unknown.

First, any run that has no label is a run from players that want to finish said content. Expecting them to teach/train you makes no sense. Further, they said about Ascalon, I don't believe it. Also, they might've been afk for the entire run and got kicked because of it.

The only way this is avoided is by assuring everyone has experience, aka static groups or communities.

Or by asking for experienced players to join your group, and expect that such players do join it and not liars and frauds. But I guess asking for basic English language comprehension is too much for some players.

Also, yes some people get kicked for low numbers.

I'd like to see logs/pictures of that happening.

also your claims of entitlement and respect are clearly based on your own anecdotes and assumptions, instead of based on what these players are claiming. They might be lying, or mistaken, but based on what they said, they are not disrespecting everyone's time. If they joined groups that posted no clearly stated expectations, they should have none.

Actually there is nothing in their post indicating the type of group they joined.

basically your response proves my point. You basically are ignoring everything they say because you don't believe them, and instead arguing a different point they didnt bring up.

Also, i never implied that a non tagged event should be a training run, but rather it should be understood, your group is going to be fairly random, and have little expectation other than a desire to complete the content. that said, you dont need to be meta, or high dps to complete ascalon.

back to original point, what is the point of discussing the OP, if your premise is that everything they say is a lie? Also why do you believe pugs have a high bar for behavior, in all facets of the game, i have seen random players go out of their way to be jerks. I'd say it maybe a valid arguement that arcdps is just a tool, and jerks are going to be jerks, but your assertion that any such behavior is improbable doesnt line up with what i have seen from various random groupings

[maddoctor.2738]

@"phys.7689" said:back to original point, what is the point of discussing the OP, if your premise is that everything they say is a lie?

They want to ban dps meters, I gave my reason why they shouldn't ban dps meters. I'm fairly on topic of the thread even while having doubts as to the OPs arguments, after all they WANT something, and that's what I'm against. I gave my side of the "ban dps meters argument". What are you doing here?

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"mauried.5608" said:I left WOW for that very reason.I was a healer and the DPS meters not only measured player damage, they also measured how much healing the healer did.I frequently got booted for not healing enough, even though no one died and we got thru the content, but not fast enuf apparently, as the suicide tanks used to simply rush into battle with the bosses, assuming they were invincible because of the healer in the group would keep them alive no matter what.The problem with WOW, and this game is that all battles have to be done as fast as possible, even though most have no time limit and the rewards are the same no matter how long it takes.

You're either not being truthful or you simply don't know what you're talking about (or both!). Nobody gets kicked (let alone "frequently"!) for their total healing output in a 5-man. WoW is a gear-based game. When you have a tank that is geared and competent enough to continuously chain pull through an instance, the group takes less damage and requires less healing. Given that, there is no meaningful correlation between total healing output and performance in a 5-man.

So why were you being kicked? You said people weren't dying and that you had a "suicide tank". This indicates that your group trivialized the content. Thus your role as a healer was simply to follow the tank, providing light healing as needed because that's all that was really required of you with the tank carrying the run. The only healers I ever saw get kicked in this scenario were the ones who spent the entire run demanding that the tank "wait for the healer" even though nobody was dying and the tank was watching the healer's mana bar to ensure that he wasn't placing the group in danger. Was that you?

[phys.7689]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"phys.7689" said:back to original point, what is the point of discussing the OP, if your premise is that everything they say is a lie?

They want to ban dps meters, I gave my reason why they shouldn't ban dps meters. I'm fairly on topic of the thread even while having doubts as to the OPs arguments, after all they WANT something, and that's what I'm against. I gave my side of the "ban dps meters argument". What are you doing here?

Your argument against the OP and others who claim similar is its all lies? My purpose in these replies is simply to point out that just because you do not use DPS meters that way, within your subsection of the community, does not mean that it is not used that way. Its not a great arguement to say it does not exist, because, lets be honest, you have been on these forums for awhile, and been a part of many discussions, i am sure you have seen other accounts, and probably witnessed first hands people kicked with less actual evidence for the belief they werent doing well. If you havent, you have been very lucky.

My other point, is that the baseline agreement for entering lfg content is a desire to succeed, the assumption should not be specialized meta. People who create specialized meta type lfgs should definitely expect that, but some one who just posts Ascalon catacombs, has no just right to expect speed clear type players.

I personally am not against dps meters, because they created content recently where it is basically designed such that dps meters and tracking of other data is probably the most useful tool for improvement in said content, and building toward success. But the reality is that some people will use that data in bad ways.

they cant have raids, and ban dps meters, at this point it almost doesnt matter if widespread abuse is happening(i am not saying this is the case), you will not get a high success ratio on raids without tools that give players feedback on their performance, and allow people guiding them to see where the group is missing out.

The only way that could happen, is if they built some of their own tools that serve similar purposes, and give similar feedback perhaps with better execution and hidden facets to avoid abuse, but thats unrealistic, and even then there might be little qualitative difference.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"phys.7689" said:Your argument against the OP and others who claim similar is its all lies?

In some way yes because every thread on the subject so far has been full of misinformation, much like this one. They almost always omit the reason they've been kicked (the actual one), the type of group they joined and in general all the important details just to stir up trouble and get the "please ban dps meters" bandwagon going.

My other point, is that the baseline agreement for entering lfg content is a desire to succeed, the assumption should not be specialized meta. People who create specialized meta type lfgs should definitely expect that, but some one who just posts Ascalon catacombs, has no just right to expect speed clear type players.

Meta has nothing to do with this, because thankfully now we have dps meters that clearly show a well played non-meta build will outperform a badly played meta build any day. Sometimes it's better to use the build you are more comfortable with/have more experience with, rather than copy/paste a build from a meta website. The assumption when creating a group is that you will get players helping towards that. Not players that don't know how to do the content, or how to play their characters, that's what training runs are for. The circumstances of the OP's kick in AC are hazy at best

More importantly me and many others in this thread have outlined the benefits of using dps meters and how they've changed the game to the better. There might be cases with unjust kicks by jerks, but that's not enough of a reason to ban a valuable tool for a huge number of players. The benefit/drawback ratio is leaning heavily towards benefit in this case and a few rotten apples can't be used as an excuse to make the game worse for a much larger percentage of the population.

In the end it comes down to how many players are getting legit kicked by jerks in a year. I can tell you that there are thousands of logs uploaded every month, using dps meters, helping teams get better at playing the game. So no I believe the unjust kicks due to dps meters are a drop in the ocean compared to the usefulness of dps meters, therefore banning them makes zero sense.

[avey.4201]

While dps meters made me feel uncomfortable for privacy reasons in a way, Arc doesn't show gear/inventory, I've had commanders who didn't use Arc kick some of their more solid players as they couldn't see who was fucking up as clearly, while I had Arc, and could see he was doing his role, and there was a person or 2 who weren't.As well, if you'd install arc, and play for some weeks, then go to dps golems and play with rotations the meter will help you better your dps/healing/boons whatever your role.

[Tiviana.2650]

I rather they ban the win traders and cheaters first honestly. As for dps meters i have nothing against them, i dont have arc installed but thats because it looks like a convoluted addon. Im used to meters like details and skada, arc seems like a hassle to implement.

[Taygus.4571]

@Tiviana.2650 said:I rather they ban the win traders and cheaters first honestly. As for dps meters i have nothing against them, i dont have arc installed but thats because it looks like a convoluted addon. Im used to meters like details and skada, arc seems like a hassle to implement.

It's really not.Download, move file into a gw2 folder.Done.

Its a single file unless you want build saving.

[Tiviana.2650]

Thanks i may give it a try. I have always liked meters for trying to get my rotations down and see how bad i was off on a fight. I dont think they should be used as weapons, but i think they should be used to help people get better. But im rather new to gw2, i started a free account last year but only made it to 20. I came back 2 weeks ago bought the xpacks and plan on sticking with it.

[mortrialus.3062]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Hugheszie.6291 said:Any of you played WOW? Because this is one of the things that killed our community over there... And why we play GW2 now... I've just realised... We're ruining this too.

DAMNIT.

DPS meters were legal and available in WoW the moment raids were in game. The community continued to grow, and grow, and grow even with those DPS meters allegedly ruining the game and community all throughout Vanilla, Burning Crusade, and peaking at 12 Million in Wrath of the Lich King.

Its almost like WoW's struggles were because of issues completely unrelated to DPS meters and were things new to the game starting with Cataclysm when things actually started to decline.

To add on (HA) to this, I recently found out that when WoW's development team were working on Molten Core, the first major raid ever added to the game, they actually used player made DPS meters ones for testing rather than develop in house ones of their own.

[Kree.5628]

On 12/21/2018 at 4:37 PM, Draco.9480 said:

people saw you leech. you get mad, so you blame arcdps for it. maybe you should get banned. i get kicked for being a necro so what. do i blame arcdps? no the numbers are on my side cuz i outdps meta people with necro. when i outdps i don't get kicked.

if you had arcdsp you would see yer actual dps and why you were kicked. improve and stop blaming elitism and addons. it's yer problem only.

and here we are, the classical example of toxic, displayed online for you all.

[Beleron.9347]

4 minutes ago, Kree.5628 said:

and here we are, the classical example of toxic, displayed online for you all.

and here we are, the classical example of thread necromancy, displayed online for you all.

[Noc Rubu.5804]

On 12/21/2018 at 5:31 PM, Applejuice.4083 said:

Had two instances today, before anyone comments on gear, my guild and rotation comes from snowcrows to the T, including food. Went in for nostalgia on a dungeon run and got kicked towards the end of AC P2 because "Dps sucks", really? On AC P2? , 2nd instance was at VG was hitting 30-40k+ but it was "too low" and people started to get boot left and right. How do you expect people to learn and stay end game, when its filled with elitism? Ban ArcDPS please. It breeds toxic people.

It does, this type of info ruined WoW IMHO.   I met a guy in WvW who was watching his spreadsheet critiqing every key you press. Left that guild.  Anet needs to fix this.

[Noc Rubu.5804]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:49 AM, mortrialus.3062 said:

 

DPS meters were legal and available in WoW the moment raids were in game. The community continued to grow, and grow, and grow even with those DPS meters allegedly ruining the game and community all throughout Vanilla, Burning Crusade, and peaking at 12 Million in Wrath of the Lich King.

 

Its almost like WoW's struggles were because of issues completely unrelated to DPS meters and were things new to the game starting with Cataclysm when things actually started to decline.

 

To add on (HA) to this, I recently found out that when WoW's development team were working on Molten Core, the first major raid ever added to the game, they actually used player made DPS meters ones for testing rather than develop in house ones of their own.

Ruined that game because it made Toxic people have a new tool. IMHO

[notebene.3190]

It's astounding

Time is fleeting

Madness takes its toll

[Biziut.3594]

10 hours ago, Areohtwo.7839 said:

Ruined that game because it made Toxic people have a new tool. IMHO

Man no point quoting this posts I am afraid. They wrote this five years ago xddd