Stop going far. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Stop going far.

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  • Shade.8971Shade.8971 Member ✭✭

    And then there are those who think the thief should 1v1 the soulbeast on far at the start of the match and get mad losing the 3 v 4 mid fight.

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Sampson.2403 said:
    1-3-1 is usually the best opener. Anyone who makes the blanket statement that going far is a bad play is tEh noob.

    ^ This is actually true.

    In gold & lower divisions people believe 1-4-0 is the best split because it is the safe split. Not many people around this tier understand rotations well enough to play the far node adequately, and that is where you hear the horror stories of a "bad far push". In this case 1-4-0 eliminates the chance of a bad far push, leaves only home to worry about in terms of someone winning a 1v1 or needing to be +'d. Essentially the 1-4-0 turns the match into an immediate small scale skirmish at mid, narrowing the dynamic of "who's gonna win" into whichever team has the better team fight presence. Ben had made a statement recently and he said something to effect of: "Reapers had the highest match win rate currently." I don't doubt that at all because most of the players playing spvp hover between g3 to g1, which means that most of the teams clashing in this tier are all narrowly launching perma 1-4-0 splits the entire game, and in this situation Reapers are gonna take the best win rates, because players in this tier have not yet figured out how to rotate around such situations and play 3 nodes, at least not properly.

    Now when you start getting into p2+ matches, there are people who actually know what they're doing pushing the far node, when it is advantageous or when it is not. These are the kinds of players push far initially and get there quickly enough to stop the opponent's cap and they know they will win the 1v1, eventually full capping. Worst case scenario the opponents send 1 or 2 guys to go + your far pusher and even if they manage to drive him off the node or maybe even eventually kill him, it's going to take 2+ minutes. If you're team losses the home node and wipes at mid in a 4v3 or 4v2 advantage, that is ALL on the players who couldn't win the 4v3 or 4v2. The strong side nodding far pusher was certainly doing his job and carrying the match as hard as he could. Even if the strong side noder meets a strong opponent defending far over the neutral cap in a 1v1, he still isn't doing anything wrong. At the worst it can only be viewed that he has taken himself, the opponent, and the far node out of the game temporarily. He is neither helping nor hurting the match. If the players at mid and home wipe, that is still on them and they cannot simply point fingers at one person who is neither helping nor hurting the match, and say it was all his fault for they themselves losing a 4v4. They especially cannot do this considering that the side noder's build is designed to be doing exactly what he is doing, and he is of a far greater asset to the team's rotations and ability to win fights if he stales node caps, wins 1v1s "which he is designed to do" or draws 1v2s or sometimes 1v3s. This leads me to the final and most important point in this thread: Players MUST understand that they need to be leaving bad team fights and falling to other nodes instead of staying there for a team wipe. This is most easily explained like this:

    • Players with Mid Syndrome do this -> Your team launches a 1-3-1 split. Home gets capped and the player who capped home goes to mid. The far pusher eventually kills the opponent and full caps far. But the team mates at mid all wipe right as far is taken. Now the opponents at mid send 1 to decap your home, and 3 of them come to snowball the far pusher off far. The players who wiped mid all begin screaming and blaming the far pusher for not being at mid, despite the fact that it was a 4v4 at mid and the far pusher actually succeeded at his job.
    • Wise players do this -> The same exact thing happens, but this time the team mates at mid realize that home is capped, far is capped and that the team fight at mid is going poorly, so they fall off mid and rotate to the side nodes to defend the 2 nodes they own, instead of meat grinding mid, allowing the opponent a snowball triple cap when they wipe.

    Sure, sometimes there are players who repeatedly push far, who keep wiping, who seemingly are just.. bad players. I know it is obnoxious to see a 1-3-1 split that results in the guy who pushed far wiping instantly to some Mirage and then you get 5v4'd mid while he is on respawn. But don't let this create some narrow bias in your mind about how "you never push the far node" because that is simply not true at all, and it only leads to developing the mid syndrome, which will keep you in gold forever. Far node is actually so important to take that in higher tier ranked matches or ATs, sometimes teams do things like 1-1-3. They have some strong kitten player go mid to distract 3 guys just long enough for 1 person to cap home and 3 guys to kill the guy far, thus creating very early snowball for an easy win mid, leading to an early triple cap, usually sealing the win early. All in all, just before you complain and yell at the guy who is pushing far, stop and consider "is it really his fault that we lost mid? is it really his fault that we wiped" I mean sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't at all and the guy who is pushing far is actually carrying the game hard. Think about it, think about it a bit.

    As someone who has spent almost the whole season at p2, let me tell you: in my experience, a vast majority of the people who tend to go far just can't win it, or are way overconfident that they will. And worse, they just refuse to realize they are not doing anything to win the game. Yes I agree, in a 1-3-1 scenario in which both the far player keeps it contested and the team wipes at mid, the far player is not to blame -at least at first. But first, this is not the most common thing; usually, and I'm talking p2, the far player either fights without even decapping until he gets +1'd, or he even loses the 1v1. And second, even if as you said the far player is not being advantageous nor disadvantageous for the team and it is the rest who just keep losing teamfights, he should be able to see that the rest of the team, for whatever reason, just can't keep up with the 1-3-1 strat. And that being the case, it's better to try a different approach to have a comeback chance, than just going far to fight endlessly and blame the rest of the team for not being able to win an even fight.

    I don't know if it's just lower rating players getting matched with higher ones, but sorry I can't say that in p2 the 1-3-1 strategy works more often than not, and when it does it's usually not thanks to the far player but to the whole team wrecking the enemy. Also, other things that can be seen too often around this rating:

    -People capping, let's say, mid, only to flee cause they see far alone and somehow they can not even have a look around before, just to instantly lose mid as they leave.
    -People respawning and rushing to the first fight they see, without taking into accout being outnumbered or fellow teammates being 10 seconds away from respawning.

    And yes, I know that if I struggle to climb the ladder it's probably because I belong to where I am, but still, hovering around top 250 seeing this things happen just hurts my PvP soul.

  • I see anyone running far at start, I never play on point then. People think they are smart by letting mid die against 4...and they hold far, if they do, for like 10 seconds...someday they will learn math.

    WvW: WSR only good when they focus commander and in gangs. Gandara, cloud of pugs without organization.

  • @Khalisto.5780 said:
    I have seen this weird ideas before. Don't go far, lets just keep home and mid. So you don't apply pressure on the map. The other team never has to bother caping their home, and then they can move as a block and outnumber your team, because you'll always have your home contested, what means the guy that just died on your team has to get home, while they 5v4 mid. I've lost all matches someone tried not to go far.

    That's why its situational, Far is not black or white, it's grey. People shouldn't be applying black or white logic to something that's not that simple.

  • Also, it can be good to constantly drag a good player on far point, even if you're always going to die there. Your teammates may have it easier doing 4v4 against other players, rather than having a 5v5 that isn't going well.

    double post but I just read this and it Is nice to hear someone else mention it. 1 player can determine 5v5s/4v4s at opening skirmish, if you can lock down their best player off mid or your home where they can do the most damage point wise, then its worth it if you have at least 1 player on your team that can make good plays and target(basics).

  • Emtiarbi.3281Emtiarbi.3281 Member ✭✭✭

    I love this thread

  • Kumouta.4985Kumouta.4985 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    Never go far if your team is getting farmed. Stick together and retake your lands starting from CLOSE. close is surprisingly CLOSE to your spawn, allowing you to keep combat up on the enemies even if you keep dying since you'll get back in five seconds tops. If you go far constantly while losing, you're being foolish and throwing the game, and you for once deserve the blame your unskilled toxic teammates throw at you.
    At the start of a match it can be a good strategic choice as long as the 3 going to mid can stay alive or avoid the point until the last second to let the guy from close come help them win mid AND the far scrub has to win far or contest it for nine years straight so he can get help after mid is won.
    Usually mid dies, close gets scared and crouches in the corner, and far's brain malfunctions as he whacks the bunker indefinitely until eventually getting absolutely destroyed by the spreading enemy army.

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    The problem is not people going far, it's that every kitten time people go into middle they don't care if you secured a two cap and starts disengaging, you always end up losing 1-2 players because they will fight to the death no matter what. And that is because 99% of this community does not know how to rotate

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @bluri.2653 said:
    The problem is not people going far, it's that every kitten time people go into middle they don't care if you secured a two cap and starts disengaging, you always end up losing 1-2 players because they will fight to the death no matter what. And that is because 99% of this community does not know how to rotate

    That's why "Get Mid or Die Tryin' [mid]" is my favourite GW2 guild name of all time.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP content

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:
    The problem is not people going far, it's that every kitten time people go into middle they don't care if you secured a two cap and starts disengaging, you always end up losing 1-2 players because they will fight to the death no matter what. And that is because 99% of this community does not know how to rotate

    Thread.

    Can this thread go away now? It hurts my eyes.

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