Episode 5 SPOILERS topic. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Episode 5 SPOILERS topic.

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Well... the ending was fully expected, really. I wasn't 100% sure they would kill her, but I wasn't exactly shocked either. The whole point of the bit in Episode 4 was to show that this outcome was inevitable. The fact that Glint was pushing her forward anyway meant that Glint had somehow seen past Aurene's death to a means of defeating Kraalkatorik. So, don't worry about Aurene. Give her a few days to get back on her feet.

    And did Glint forsee her death? I can't remember. Or did her visions just stop at a certain point and she reached the conclusion that she died? Because if she didn't forsee it and Aurene did, then perhaps that's a hint that she isn't finished yet, because she doesn't actually die?

    Yeah, Glint didn’t see her own death. Not like Aurene did.

    Glint: Prophecy is not always a gift. Often I see things I wish I hadn't. But when the vision is clouded, I am most uneasy.
    Glint: The heroes have gathered, and Kralkatorrik approaches.
    Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
    Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
    Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?
    Glint: So much is unclear, but I'm out of time. I must keep my faith, and hope that my children will carry on my legacy.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Well... the ending was fully expected, really. I wasn't 100% sure they would kill her, but I wasn't exactly shocked either. The whole point of the bit in Episode 4 was to show that this outcome was inevitable. The fact that Glint was pushing her forward anyway meant that Glint had somehow seen past Aurene's death to a means of defeating Kraalkatorik. So, don't worry about Aurene. Give her a few days to get back on her feet.

    And did Glint forsee her death? I can't remember. Or did her visions just stop at a certain point and she reached the conclusion that she died? Because if she didn't forsee it and Aurene did, then perhaps that's a hint that she isn't finished yet, because she doesn't actually die?

    Yeah, Glint didn’t see her own death. Not like Aurene did.

    Glint: Prophecy is not always a gift. Often I see things I wish I hadn't. But when the vision is clouded, I am most uneasy.
    Glint: The heroes have gathered, and Kralkatorrik approaches.
    Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
    Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
    Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?
    Glint: So much is unclear, but I'm out of time. I must keep my faith, and hope that my children will carry on my legacy.

    Aurene foresaw only failures, no success.

    Kralkatorrik foresaw that there is a future where he is dead.

    ALSO HOLY kitten KRALKATORRIK CAN FORESEE THE FUTURE?!!!?!?!?!

    I thought Glint got this ability from the Forgotten... But Kralkatorrik is a prophet, so his other members of family get a partial amount of vision: Glint sees (sometimes) the prophecies blurly, Aurene in dark colors, and Kralkatorrik actually had this vision with the world without him...

    What a family..

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Well... the ending was fully expected, really. I wasn't 100% sure they would kill her, but I wasn't exactly shocked either. The whole point of the bit in Episode 4 was to show that this outcome was inevitable. The fact that Glint was pushing her forward anyway meant that Glint had somehow seen past Aurene's death to a means of defeating Kraalkatorik. So, don't worry about Aurene. Give her a few days to get back on her feet.

    And did Glint forsee her death? I can't remember. Or did her visions just stop at a certain point and she reached the conclusion that she died? Because if she didn't forsee it and Aurene did, then perhaps that's a hint that she isn't finished yet, because she doesn't actually die?

    Yeah, Glint didn’t see her own death. Not like Aurene did.

    Glint: Prophecy is not always a gift. Often I see things I wish I hadn't. But when the vision is clouded, I am most uneasy.
    Glint: The heroes have gathered, and Kralkatorrik approaches.
    Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
    Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
    Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?
    Glint: So much is unclear, but I'm out of time. I must keep my faith, and hope that my children will carry on my legacy.

    Aurene foresaw only failures, no success.

    Kralkatorrik foresaw that there is a future where he is dead.

    ALSO HOLY kitten KRALKATORRIK CAN FORESEE THE FUTURE?!!!?!?!?!

    I thought Glint got this ability from the Forgotten... But Kralkatorrik is a prophet, so his other members of family get a partial amount of vision: Glint sees (sometimes) the prophecies blurly, Aurene in dark colors, and Kralkatorrik actually had this vision with the world without him...

    What a family..

    Yeah, I’m gonna call it that prophecy is Kralkatorrik’s second sphere of influence. Anet hasn’t revealed anything and we potentially only have one more episode with Kralkatorik. They could also discuss it posthumous like they did Zhaitan.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just think its weird to have us training and watching aurene over several episodes to then just let her die in that manner? Seems weird to me, all that building up of her and then she gets oneshotted by kralk... Kind of anticlimatic

  • Weindrasi.3805Weindrasi.3805 Member ✭✭✭

    Quit freaking out people.

    1. Aurene absorbed Mordremoth magic. After Mordremoth died, we had to kill Trahearne because Mordremoth was capable of resurrecting himself through Trahearne. Aurene has a similar minion--Caithe.
    2. Aurene absorbed Lich magic. Undying necromancer able to come back from death.
    3. Aurene absorbed God magic. No specific connection to resurrection in that, but it is God magic.
    4. Even without the top three factors, the Commander discovered a way to resurrect by absorbing energy from the domain of the lost.
    5. In conclusion, coming back from the dead is not very hard.
  • Jaken.6801Jaken.6801 Member ✭✭✭

    I personaly don't enjoy the thing where Glint explained the reasoning of Kralkatorrik.
    Not before giving us a real reason behind what Elder Dragons do. I mean, all we know is that they are there for some kind of balance and thus akin to a natural force.
    Now he is just scared about a possible future, where he isn't there... all signs of a self fullfilling prophecy aside, he could do other stuff instead of lashing out. Right now he is just a petty big bad, who is afraid to loose his standing...

    I dunno. I feel like we are missing steps here. Kralki being so humanised feels kinda wrong. I mean, sure. The others allready went there, but why does it have to be spelled out.

    More so, this whole reasoning didn't really answer anything and I felt like I learned more or less nothing new in that scene. Well, there are hopes for Aurene to come back, with ascension and stuff. It's about time, that plays a role again. Not like it was something big in GW1, you know.

  • Bad thing is that we have to wait for ep 6, and we already know there must be kralkatorik's death. Leaving us heartbroken and waiting for NOTHING will result in quiting game in mass numbers. Arenanet made bad move, they will be forced to update new episode in a month or they will slowly lose a game. 3.5 months for 1 map that can be completed in a few hours and story that leaves NOTHING. After they kill all dragons and all heros, game will probably die. So there won't be too many players who will wait and buy 3. expansion.

  • Dunno if this was mentioned, but Aurene did eat Joko if you all have forgotten.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:
    HOLY kitten!!!!!!!!! HOLY kitten HOLY kitten HOLY kitten HOLY kitten!!!!

    Caithe is dying too, means :'(( NOOOO WHAT THE HECK YOU DID TO MY GUILD WARS?!

    Not confirmed.. only that the connection has been severed.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Well... the ending was fully expected, really. I wasn't 100% sure they would kill her, but I wasn't exactly shocked either. The whole point of the bit in Episode 4 was to show that this outcome was inevitable. The fact that Glint was pushing her forward anyway meant that Glint had somehow seen past Aurene's death to a means of defeating Kraalkatorik. So, don't worry about Aurene. Give her a few days to get back on her feet.

    And did Glint forsee her death? I can't remember. Or did her visions just stop at a certain point and she reached the conclusion that she died? Because if she didn't forsee it and Aurene did, then perhaps that's a hint that she isn't finished yet, because she doesn't actually die?

    Yeah, Glint didn’t see her own death. Not like Aurene did.

    Glint: Prophecy is not always a gift. Often I see things I wish I hadn't. But when the vision is clouded, I am most uneasy.
    Glint: The heroes have gathered, and Kralkatorrik approaches.
    Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
    Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
    Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?
    Glint: So much is unclear, but I'm out of time. I must keep my faith, and hope that my children will carry on my legacy.

    Aurene foresaw only failures, no success.

    Kralkatorrik foresaw that there is a future where he is dead.

    ALSO HOLY kitten KRALKATORRIK CAN FORESEE THE FUTURE?!!!?!?!?!

    I thought Glint got this ability from the Forgotten... But Kralkatorrik is a prophet, so his other members of family get a partial amount of vision: Glint sees (sometimes) the prophecies blurly, Aurene in dark colors, and Kralkatorrik actually had this vision with the world without him...

    What a family..

    Yeah, I’m gonna call it that prophecy is Kralkatorrik’s second sphere of influence. Anet hasn’t revealed anything and we potentially only have one more episode with Kralkatorik. They could also discuss it posthumous like they did Zhaitan.

    I wouldn't bet on that.. Kralk was injured during the battle and he killed the only being we know of capable of replacing him.
    As of right now.. if he dies the world ends so there is absolutely no way we'll be killing him in the next release.

    My guess is that Kralk will seek time to recover from the battle.. much like he did after the battle with Destiny's Edge where he went kinda dormant for a while.
    Considering he also lost his Death Branded Shatterer in Jahai too and it's known that there is only one Shatterer at any one time I suspect that Kralk will utalize his power to brand the dead to revive Aurine under his control as his new extremely powerful champion.
    This leading to season 6 where we seek out the forgotten hoping to learn how to break her free from his corruption as they did with Glint many many years ago.
    Once Aurine is back we have the ability to replace Kralkatorrik once more and the next time we fight him.. he will die.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Did we see any use of Mordremoth's magic?

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @Jaken.6801 said:
    I personaly don't enjoy the thing where Glint explained the reasoning of Kralkatorrik.
    Not before giving us a real reason behind what Elder Dragons do. I mean, all we know is that they are there for some kind of balance and thus akin to a natural force.
    Now he is just scared about a possible future, where he isn't there... all signs of a self fullfilling prophecy aside, he could do other stuff instead of lashing out. Right now he is just a petty big bad, who is afraid to loose his standing...

    I dunno. I feel like we are missing steps here. Kralki being so humanised feels kinda wrong. I mean, sure. The others allready went there, but why does it have to be spelled out.

    More so, this whole reasoning didn't really answer anything and I felt like I learned more or less nothing new in that scene. Well, there are hopes for Aurene to come back, with ascension and stuff. It's about time, that plays a role again. Not like it was something big in GW1, you know.

    Agreed this was unecessary and bad move....., and worse, was that the "big secret" "last gift" to reveal? what is the use of finding out if Kralkatorrik is moved by fear or anger or hunger?

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    Agreed this was unecessary and bad move....., and worse, was that the "big secret" "last gift" to reveal? what is the use of finding out if Kralkatorrik is moved by fear or anger or hunger?

    The gift is that Kraalkatorik foresaw his death. Well, the world after his death, anyway, which seemed nice, not blown up. She's giving us assurance that, in the end, we will win, that is the gift.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Did we see any use of Mordremoth's magic?

    Just from the Inquest research at Sandswept.

  • Nick.6972Nick.6972 Member ✭✭

    It's Guild Wars we are talking about. Good guys ultimately always win with no exceptions. Aurene won't stay dead and will come back sooner or later. Elder Dragon will die. There are no surprises to be expected.

  • Jaken.6801Jaken.6801 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    Crackpot theory... All we did this episode was just a vision by Glint, showing us how we fail.
    It was a lesson so we don't rush things, making the whole rushed feeling of the past episodes more substancial.
    The last episode will be about finding a real way to fight of Kralkatorrik, leading into the next season.

    I mean, remember. We get seperated from everyone by Glint. Sure we meet with Caithe afterwards, but that was all magic space.

    While it would be a kitten move, it would hammer down the whole Kralkatorrik is deadly thing... though the ending at the moment does that very well too.

    It would be a way to slow down the commander for once

  • Caithe must be the key right?

    We saw Aurene had influence on her and could speak through her. Remember Mordremoth once put a seed inside Trahearne to revive himself. Aurene got part of his power so he might be able to do it as well.

  • KrivukasLT.3507KrivukasLT.3507 Member ✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    That last scene was AWESOME and brutal. Aurene was impaled like that. Daaamn. Somehow It reminded me mortal kombat :D 10/10. I think commander will get some sort of PTSD after these events. First taimi, then blish, now aurene.

  • Sykper.6583Sykper.6583 Member ✭✭✭

    Has anyone considered the possibility that, given some of the new things shown in this episode, that Aurene would come back in a different Manner?

    I have a theory that Ascension for dragons is what gives them their 'influence' or power. I think the right call was that Aurene had to die per what Glint told her, but in order for Aurene to become what can balance the world, the Scion and his group must overcome overwhelming despair in the loss of what was their 'final' ray of hope, and kill off Kralky without knowing if it dooms or saves their world.

    So that in Kralk's death throes, Aurene brands Kralk through a combination of Mordremoth's power to rule over the dying mind of the Crystal Dragon and takes over his body, thus reincarnation.

    This prevents the technicality that we have killed off another Elder Dragon and we get a good Crystal Dragon whose influences are light and hope.

    I know it is kind of wishy-washy, but I think Arenanet is a bit more clever than Joko-rez, but not too subtle in pulling off some Sherlock Holmes play.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It doesn't seem like it would be a good idea to take over such a weakened body though. I'm sure she could regenerate, but I'd rather my Aurene not look like a one-eyed Deathwing-esque purple chin dragon!

    I don't know why everyone is so upset about the idea of Aurene being revived using Joko's magic. It makes perfect sense to me, and if the reveal of her revival comes at the end of the episode after we kill Kralk I think it would have more than enough "meaning" in the sense that it fueled us even more to finish Kralk. Then it's just up to her to absorb the magic now that she's "reconstructed" herself. And whatever she did to him in terms of partially branding him and why he just took off could be the key to us being able to finish the job making that moment necessary without her needing to be directly involved with the actual final battle with Kralk. She can still show up after the fact to take his place.

    I just think the joko bit is far more likely considering what we know than her seeding herself in Caithe or her joining the mists forever with Glint and Vlast. Given Ogden's dialogue, the seeming randomness of Joko's death at the hands of her, and the fact that the gift Glint implying, to me at least, that the dragon will actually be a living non-mist being. (I guess it didn't specifically say that, but the fact that it shows an actual dragon surrounded by a bunch of humans and charr and what not implies that they're not just ghosts in the mists standing around her... and that Glint is already a dragon in the mists and has never projected herself in that fashion on Tyria despite the interactions we've had with her. Oh, and the specific mention of Kralk devouring everything in the domain of the lost? There's just a lot of hints that Aurene will be resurrected and I think finessing the story to work around the events of this final instance will be better given where the story has already been than somehow spending another entire season figuring out some other possible way to absorb magic or kill Kralk.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Well, someone is foreseeing things, anyway, based on what Ogden said. If not Glint, there's another prophet out there. Probably another of Kraalkatorik's line, considering it seems to run in the blood. Or crystals. Or whatever.

    There's more prophets in the GW lore than merely crystal dragons. There's plenty of fortune tellers (LEGIT ones at that), and multiple priests/priestesses in GW1 are given visions of the future by gods - Dwayna giving Meerak a vision of the Searing, Lyssa giving Kehanni a vision of Sunspears coming from Kourna through the old corsair tunnels.

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    So I posted this on an older topic, with the discovery that Kralkatorrik also has prophetic visions, is that his second magical sphere of influence? Seems to be an ability only native to Kralkatorrik and his kin.

    I'm still convinced the second sphere is sky or air. I think prophecy might just be a part of the crystal domain, given that crystals are used for changing perspective and multiplying views. On top of crystal balls as Eekasquak said.

    On top of that, however, the line by Glint doesn't necessarily mean Kralkatorrik literally prophecized a world without him. The Commander says such, but honestly, "Kralkatorrik foresaw a world at peace between mortal and dragon" doesn't really sound prophetic to me, it sounds akin to Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I have a dream" speech. That Kralkatorrik realized the possibility of such a world, and worked against it.

    Crystal - and prophecy - has always felt far too niche of a domain to me, compared to the capabilities and broadness of things like death and mind.

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    And out of all of the elder dragons including Mordremoth, Kralk foresaw that there was peace among everyone without him? Was it just without him? As in Zhaitain and Mordremoth were fine or they plus Kralk? As in the other three remaining are fine? That whole portion just seemed really random to me. Like, Kralk just seemed like this endlessly hungering thing without much motive to me and now he's this evil prophetic mastermind or something?

    Given what we know about the Elder Dragons, in all honesty, if I think peace is possible among any of the five we've met (can't say for the DSD), I'd say Jormag and Zhaitan are both the strongest possibilities. Going back to this recent post about the personalities and goals of the Elder Dragons we see, Kralkatorrik and Primordus are the least compromising of the group.

    Presuming Glint didn't lie for xyz reason, the fact Kralkatorrik imagined / prophecized a world without him doesn't really make him a prophetic mastermind, and doesn't really change his goals either. He was always evil, he knew full well the damage he was doing as we saw in Edge of Destiny. And both before and now, his desire has been to consume/corrupt everything, and destroy the rest. We never really got motives for this goal though.

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    And this ascending stuff? I'll feel a lot better about this entire plot in 4 months I guess. Or 5. Or whatever amount of months they decide to go with this time for unforeseen problems. Just getting really tired of the cliffhangers so I hope the next finale has kind of a subtle hint and not a, "Oh no, a favorite character might be dead or might not be.. find out in 4 months when we start the next living story season!"

    I'm also really hoping they don't drag Kralk out for another living season, but I don't know how they will just suddenly wrap up Kralk in the next episode without bringing Aurene back, which I hope they do.

    Here's to hoping it's a much shorter wait this time. They've got lunar new year and then what? Super adventure box in April? So maybe we'll get it in between?

    March is pretty likely unless they delay it for Super Adventure Festival.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:
    I just think its weird to have us training and watching aurene over several episodes to then just let her die in that manner? Seems weird to me, all that building up of her and then she gets oneshotted by kralk... Kind of anticlimatic

    Wasn't really a one-shot, given that she took multiple blasts by Kralkatorrik. And I mean, what you describe is more or less any late-plot death for a character introduced early on. I would hardly call such anticlimatic, but rather dramatic.

    Better than introducing a character then killing them off only one or two instances later, and acting like you should care.

    @Jaken.6801 said:
    I personaly don't enjoy the thing where Glint explained the reasoning of Kralkatorrik.
    Not before giving us a real reason behind what Elder Dragons do. I mean, all we know is that they are there for some kind of balance and thus akin to a natural force.
    Now he is just scared about a possible future, where he isn't there... all signs of a self fullfilling prophecy aside, he could do other stuff instead of lashing out. Right now he is just a petty big bad, who is afraid to loose his standing...

    I dunno. I feel like we are missing steps here. Kralki being so humanised feels kinda wrong. I mean, sure. The others allready went there, but why does it have to be spelled out.

    More so, this whole reasoning didn't really answer anything and I felt like I learned more or less nothing new in that scene. Well, there are hopes for Aurene to come back, with ascension and stuff. It's about time, that plays a role again. Not like it was something big in GW1, you know.

    I don't see Glint's message as a reasoning for Kralkatorrik's actions/evil.

    I mean, we do get the underlying, unstated sense that Kralkatorrik for some reason wants conflict between dragons and mortals, or to kill all mortals like Primordus seems to, but believing there's a chance of a world without him is never stated for why he wants that conflict.

    More like the belief / prophecy was a consequence of Kralkatorrik's evil. Kralkatorrik and the other Elder Dragons went evil, trying to enslave and stir conflict with mortals, and as a reaction he foresaw a world where mortals won.

    Kralkatorrik, from day one, was presented with the goals and desires of corrupting everything into his image, and destroying the rest. That remains the reason for his actions. But the consequence of his action is that mortals fight back, and he saw that he could be killed. To quote the book:

    It was like standing in the eye of a cyclone. All around, a great storm raged, tearing down the heavens and churning up the sands and whirling all in primordial chaos. Tortured coils of cloud mixed with dissolving seas of silt. The winds scoured away rock and rill, tree and blade, flesh and bone—and tossed them all in a crystalline tempest.
    All things were fuel to that storm.
    Everything was a feast to Kralkatorrik.
    [...]
    The center of every vortex is a great emptiness—a hollow longing. The storm tries to fill the emptiness, but the more it hungers, the deeper the emptiness becomes.
    And Kralkatorrik's hunger was insatiable.
    To draw the dragon, Snaff had to become the eye of the storm—to be what Kralkatorrik was not.
    [...]
    Enraged, the dragon sought this delighted mind, this maddening contentment. The eye of the dragon shifted, fixing on the ruined sanctuary far below.

    Perhaps the reason why Kralkatorrik wants to remain in conflict with mortals, is because he hates what he isn't and doesn't have, and so he seeks to obtain it or remove it from existence, and mortals have what he lacks.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Did we see any use of Mordremoth's magic?

    After using the third resonance crystal, Kralkatorrik powers up a charged attack that uses Zhiatan's, Mordremoth's, and Balthazar's magic with his own. This is the only case we saw.

    Likely because while he took death from Zhaitan, he seemed to take mind from Mordremoth. While Primordus took shadow (and death?) from Zhaitan, and plant from Mordremoth.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Well, someone is foreseeing things, anyway, based on what Ogden said. If not Glint, there's another prophet out there. Probably another of Kraalkatorik's line, considering it seems to run in the blood. Or crystals. Or whatever.

    There's more prophets in the GW lore than merely crystal dragons. There's plenty of fortune tellers (LEGIT ones at that), and multiple priests/priestesses in GW1 are given visions of the future by gods - Dwayna giving Meerak a vision of the Searing, Lyssa giving Kehanni a vision of Sunspears coming from Kourna through the old corsair tunnels.

    But, barring fan theories about Lyssa, the gods aren't around, and whatever happens with Aurene, we're five scions short of a world where dragons aren't the enemy. Or, if we get very lucky and Aurene resurrection powers enable her to restore Glaust and Vlast, three short. Or if the Pale Tree can replace Mordremoth, two short (oddly enough, the Pale Tree has some capacity to see the future and share visions as well -- prior to this episode, it would have made sense to attribute it to the conversion process rather than Kraalkatorik).

    Anyway, laying the narrative groundwork for introducing a new scion would seem to have some value.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Well, someone is foreseeing things, anyway, based on what Ogden said. If not Glint, there's another prophet out there. Probably another of Kraalkatorik's line, considering it seems to run in the blood. Or crystals. Or whatever.

    There's more prophets in the GW lore than merely crystal dragons. There's plenty of fortune tellers (LEGIT ones at that), and multiple priests/priestesses in GW1 are given visions of the future by gods - Dwayna giving Meerak a vision of the Searing, Lyssa giving Kehanni a vision of Sunspears coming from Kourna through the old corsair tunnels.

    But, barring fan theories about Lyssa, the gods aren't around, and whatever happens with Aurene, we're five scions short of a world where dragons aren't the enemy. Or, if we get very lucky and Aurene resurrection powers enable her to restore Glaust and Vlast, three short. Or if the Pale Tree can replace Mordremoth, two short (oddly enough, the Pale Tree has some capacity to see the future and share visions as well -- prior to this episode, it would have made sense to attribute it to the conversion process rather than Kraalkatorik).

    Anyway, laying the narrative groundwork for introducing a new scion would seem to have some value.

    I didn't mean to imply that the only source of prophecy besides crystal dragons are gods. Rather, I was indicating that there's more than just crystal dragons. It should be noted that the Scrying Pool does have the ability to look into both past and present, it's possible it can look into the future too; and it has nothing to do with crystal magic, but water.

    Which, curiously, may hint that the DSD can be prophetic too. And see past illusions/obscuring magic, given Bahltek's dialogue about water (which is likely why water was Abaddon's domain that moved to Lyssa).

    We don't need all six Elder Dragons, just three - any more is merely insurance in case one dies.

    Presuming we can use them, we have Kuunavang, Albax, and Shiny, the Pale Tree, Malyck's Tree, and Aurene (should she return). If we can't use them, leave Primordus and Jormag alive but sleeping until actual candidate dragons are born. Even then, it wouldn't surprise me, if Aurene takes in some death magic, for her to revive Glint and Vlast.

    That all said though, Glint's Trials make me think that Aurene, Glint, and Vlast all could only ever have a chance at replacing Kralkatorrik. Even if they revived Vlast and Glint, could they replace the others properly? Which may leave us with just the five - a tree for Mordremoth, a crystal dragon for Kralkatorrik, and three saltspray dragons to obtain the domains of three more.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Well, someone is foreseeing things, anyway, based on what Ogden said. If not Glint, there's another prophet out there. Probably another of Kraalkatorik's line, considering it seems to run in the blood. Or crystals. Or whatever.

    There's more prophets in the GW lore than merely crystal dragons. There's plenty of fortune tellers (LEGIT ones at that), and multiple priests/priestesses in GW1 are given visions of the future by gods - Dwayna giving Meerak a vision of the Searing, Lyssa giving Kehanni a vision of Sunspears coming from Kourna through the old corsair tunnels.

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    So I posted this on an older topic, with the discovery that Kralkatorrik also has prophetic visions, is that his second magical sphere of influence? Seems to be an ability only native to Kralkatorrik and his kin.

    I'm still convinced the second sphere is sky or air. I think prophecy might just be a part of the crystal domain, given that crystals are used for changing perspective and multiplying views. On top of crystal balls as Eekasquak said.

    On top of that, however, the line by Glint doesn't necessarily mean Kralkatorrik literally prophecized a world without him. The Commander says such, but honestly, "Kralkatorrik foresaw a world at peace between mortal and dragon" doesn't really sound prophetic to me, it sounds akin to Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I have a dream" speech. That Kralkatorrik realized the possibility of such a world, and worked against it.

    Crystal - and prophecy - has always felt far too niche of a domain to me, compared to the capabilities and broadness of things like death and mind.

    The journal itself does state Kralkatorrik had a prophecy.

    Crystal Dragon

    I went over the plan of attack and did what I could to reassure our gathered forces that we had Kralkatorrik's own prophecy — his vision of a world without him — on our side.

    Scion and Champion

    Glint then revealed Kralkatorrik's greatest secret: in a vision, he had foreseen a world without him, a world at peace. And it had terrified him.

    I believe it was a bit wishy washy in the first mission dialogue, but was further stated in the speech of the final mission.

    I do admit that this ability could be linked to the Crystal sphere. If Kralkatorrik is defeated in the next episode, I hope this second sphere of influence isn’t glossed over.

  • Yo i got new theories. So glint and aurene can't see visions past there deaths. Kralk sees a vision of a peaceful world without him, but he still sees this vision even tho in this future world he is "gone". Aurene sees her death and it would have happened no matter what strategy they chose. So two things we know from this are that you can't have visions of your death or past it if you are permanently dead, and Both kralk and aurene see visions without themselves alive, so we know neither will permanantly die (I think). We know aurene and kralk have frequencies to cancel each other out. Maybe aurene needs to merge with kralk thus forming a neutral, or good dragon. Neither ones is dead, each vision was correct, and we use kralks weakness, its own powers, to convert it. Forgotten weren't strong enough to do it, but after aurene ascends she is strong enough to do what the forgotten couldn't. Ascensions might require sacrificing your mortal body and passing through more mist trials. Its the final step. We know ascension before requires the fighting of yourself, and aurene did that in the trials. Aurene also needed to stay alive until the final blast to save the rest of us and deplete kralks energy.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Everyone acts like the only dragons we have to choose from are ones we already know about from GW1, but remember more could be anywhere out there in the world. Regular dragons do seem fairly rare (except wyverns but they can’t replace EDs right?), but we could easily find more out there. Could be all our allies spread out hunting rumors, looking for new dragons, and S5 is is trying to recruit one

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Edelweiss.4261Edelweiss.4261 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jaken.6801 said:
    I personaly don't enjoy the thing where Glint explained the reasoning of Kralkatorrik.
    Not before giving us a real reason behind what Elder Dragons do. I mean, all we know is that they are there for some kind of balance and thus akin to a natural force.
    Now he is just scared about a possible future, where he isn't there... all signs of a self fullfilling prophecy aside, he could do other stuff instead of lashing out. Right now he is just a petty big bad, who is afraid to loose his standing...

    I dunno. I feel like we are missing steps here. Kralki being so humanised feels kinda wrong. I mean, sure. The others allready went there, but why does it have to be spelled out.

    More so, this whole reasoning didn't really answer anything and I felt like I learned more or less nothing new in that scene. Well, there are hopes for Aurene to come back, with ascension and stuff. It's about time, that plays a role again. Not like it was something big in GW1, you know.

    Glad to see others took issue with this as well. The "force of nature" has become human (as was my problem with Mordremoth).

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    The elder dragons should have always been assumed to have sentience and agenda. They clearly all had a goal otherwise their corrupting and commanding of armies (many with sentient soldiers receiving explicit roles/commands from said dragons, especially Zhaitan).

    It’s more the people of tyria that have framed them as forces of nature due to the seemingly unstoppable level of their power and ability to enact mass destruction.

  • ArenaNet clearly never intended for any of the Elder Dragons to be mindless as shown by the Novels. The reason the writers called them forces of nature is because they are forces of nature. Kralkatorrik can become a Crystal Sandstorm, Jormag can become a Blizzard, Primordius is a mass of Lava and Mordremoth is the Maguuma Jungle itself with a head and neck made of wood growing from the heart of the Jungle.

    The Elder Dragons are sentient scheming forces of nature with discernable goals. They are not Eldritch Abominations(Abaddon is the closest to that)!

  • @Tyson.5160 said:
    The journal itself does state Kralkatorrik had a prophecy.

    Crystal Dragon

    I went over the plan of attack and did what I could to reassure our gathered forces that we had Kralkatorrik's own prophecy — his vision of a world without him — on our side.

    Scion and Champion

    Glint then revealed Kralkatorrik's greatest secret: in a vision, he had foreseen a world without him, a world at peace. And it had terrified him.

    I believe it was a bit wishy washy in the first mission dialogue, but was further stated in the speech of the final mission.

    I do admit that this ability could be linked to the Crystal sphere. If Kralkatorrik is defeated in the next episode, I hope this second sphere of influence isn’t glossed over.

    To be fair, the journal is written by the Commander. They think it was a vision, that much is ahem crystal clear, but Glint doesn't state such. That was my point. Glint's wording is ambiguous that it could mean a literal vision, or just imagining such; regardless, the Commander interpreted her words to mean the former. Unreliable narrator, Anet loves (over)using them.

    @Edelweiss.4261 said:
    Glad to see others took issue with this as well. The "force of nature" has become human (as was my problem with Mordremoth).

    The entire "force of nature" was obviously, since the release of Edge of Destiny, nothing more than Tyrian appropriation to the Elder Dragons. The Elder Dragons were always sapient beings - I wouldn't call them "become human" per se, given that they're still pretty kitten far above human capability - but this is nothing new. It's been there since proverbial day 1.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    Everyone acts like the only dragons we have to choose from are ones we already know about from GW1, but remember more could be anywhere out there in the world. Regular dragons do seem fairly rare (except wyverns but they can’t replace EDs right?), but we could easily find more out there. Could be all our allies spread out hunting rumors, looking for new dragons, and S5 is is trying to recruit one

    So, we spend the last episode of the season sitting around being bummed, and Kraalkatorik stops eating reality for a year and a half to let us cobble together a new plan?

    No, in three months, Aurene will be alive (for some definition of alive) and Kraalkatorik will be dead.

  • Lome.8239Lome.8239 Member ✭✭✭

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    Also where the kitten were Marjory and Kasmeer.

    And the answer to what we can do is simples, go find the Gods and get them to help in some manner because CLEARLY everything we're coming up with doesn't work.

    That manner would probably involve resurrecting Aurene but who knows at this point. ArenaNet threw a curveball.

    Forget the gods

    We need Zojja

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with prophecy being related to the crystal side of kralk. Heck we craft vision crystals all the time.

  • But where did all aurenes magic go? Kralk would have looked a little better if he absorbed it, and its not scattered around. Besides the joko and the visions not being the end arguments, I think this is another solid point. Things dying have been showing a release of energy for a long while but it was left out this time, maybe cuz of the blackout but idk.

  • Cuddy.6247Cuddy.6247 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    go find the Gods and get them to help in some manner

    bUt tHe CatAcLySmIc dEstRucTioN of TYriA.

    Really though after this episode I question even harder why we killed Balthazar. So...we should've let him use the dragonsblood spear, Aurene and his superpowers to wipe the elder dragon off the face of Tyria. Tell me, what exactly about our plan is any different than his plan? Like other than we are coaxing Aurene into being a sponge willingly while Balthazar was using her as the proxy between Kralkatorrik and being a sponge himself.

    Like...what actually happened. What. Actually. Happened.

    I'll be in Guild Wars 1 until Arena Net stops monetizing build templates.

  • @Cuddy.6247 said:
    Really though after this episode I question even harder why we killed Balthazar. So...we should've let him use the dragonsblood spear, Aurene and his superpowers to wipe the elder dragon off the face of Tyria. Tell me, what exactly about our plan is any different than his plan? Like other than we are coaxing Aurene into being a sponge willingly while Balthazar was using her as the proxy between Kralkatorrik and being a sponge himself.

    Balthazar was trying to kill Kralk before Aurene was capable of taking on the role of an Elder Dragon, and thus, would have destroyed the planet in the process.

    We are only trying to kill Kralk now because Aurene IS ready, supposedly, to do so.

  • Cuddy.6247Cuddy.6247 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Cuddy.6247 said:
    Really though after this episode I question even harder why we killed Balthazar. So...we should've let him use the dragonsblood spear, Aurene and his superpowers to wipe the elder dragon off the face of Tyria. Tell me, what exactly about our plan is any different than his plan? Like other than we are coaxing Aurene into being a sponge willingly while Balthazar was using her as the proxy between Kralkatorrik and being a sponge himself.

    Balthazar was trying to kill Kralk before Aurene was capable of taking on the role of an Elder Dragon, and thus, would have destroyed the planet in the process.

    We are only trying to kill Kralk now because Aurene IS ready, supposedly, to do so.

    So ready that she got shish kabobed.

    I'll be in Guild Wars 1 until Arena Net stops monetizing build templates.

  • @Cuddy.6247 said:
    So ready that she got shish kabobed.

    Her dying was always a possibility no matter the scenario, that doesn't change the fact she fundamentally wasn't ready to take on an Elder Dragon's magic at that moment.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    If Aurene does come back because of Joko ability to not die, it would kind of give a reason for Joko to be killed in the first place.

    I was also wondering about why they showed Glint’s body in this release. Was it for an oh cool factor or was it hinting at something else? Maybe Aurene reviving Glint or perhaps doing a mind transfer to her corpse using both her Mordremoth Zhaitan magic and maybe because of Joko? Maybe Aurene will return in Glint’s body and now we have a fair size dragon to take on Kralkatorrik’s magic.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    Everyone acts like the only dragons we have to choose from are ones we already know about from GW1, but remember more could be anywhere out there in the world. Regular dragons do seem fairly rare (except wyverns but they can’t replace EDs right?), but we could easily find more out there. Could be all our allies spread out hunting rumors, looking for new dragons, and S5 is is trying to recruit one

    So, we spend the last episode of the season sitting around being bummed, and Kraalkatorik stops eating reality for a year and a half to let us cobble together a new plan?

    No, in three months, Aurene will be alive (for some definition of alive) and Kraalkatorik will be dead.

    Ok, that’s a good point and that is more like for this season. But still season5 could be us scouring the continent looking for a dragon to absorb the energy of another dragon, or all the loose magic from the first two so we can just straight up kill another.

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • what about the ghostly messenger that tells about kralky eating souls, looks like Gwen?

  • Zania.8461Zania.8461 Member ✭✭✭

    Wild speculation: Kralk is actually dead.

    All indications until the very last point of the episode was that we WERE killing him. Then all of a sudden big blast (from where?) and Aurene's body is impaled while Commander is safely blasted away (why?). So I will speculate that Aurene was not capable of taking over Kralk as an Elder Dragon in her own body. Neither was Glint during her confrontation (her memory during the visit to her lair states that she is not ready right before the confrontation). Instead she took over the weakened and dying dragon's body (combination of mordemoth's mind sphere, joko's awakening and perhaps some info from Glint) and slinkered away to make sure we won't finish her off before sorting this out.

    Aurene's body dying had to be part of the plan - Glint was aware of it, Aurene was aware of it, but they went through with it anyway. Question is whether this is a long game (getting it branded/restored, possessing Caithe, etc), or was the main goal accomplished already.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Amanda Whitemoon.6173 said:
    what about the ghostly messenger that tells about kralky eating souls, looks like Gwen?

    Pretty sure it was Gwen. She's quite recognizable to any GW1 vet. I thought it was a nice touch.

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Cuddy.6247 said:
    Really though after this episode I question even harder why we killed Balthazar. So...we should've let him use the dragonsblood spear, Aurene and his superpowers to wipe the elder dragon off the face of Tyria. Tell me, what exactly about our plan is any different than his plan? Like other than we are coaxing Aurene into being a sponge willingly while Balthazar was using her as the proxy between Kralkatorrik and being a sponge himself.

    Balthazar was trying to kill Kralk before Aurene was capable of taking on the role of an Elder Dragon, and thus, would have destroyed the planet in the process.

    We are only trying to kill Kralk now because Aurene IS ready, supposedly, to do so.

    mmm...but isn't it quite possible that balthazar could've just replaced aurene, using aurene as a proxy? she'd be the digital to analog converter of kralky's RF signal. i mean, i assume that's why he was going after one of glint's offspring in the first place, no? otherwise why would he have cared at all? he sure wasn't going after them because he didn't think he could take on kralkatorrik...

    i might just be thinking hypercritically here...but there were a lot of ethical controversies around balthazar's raid on elona, which made him for a decent villain still. but as far as his plan on killing kralk...well, i don't think we differed there. more like it was just a hastily thrown-together reason to establish conflict before any breach of ethics.

  • He was using the scions to power the warbeast to weaken Kralkatorrik using the scion's shared resonance with Kralkatorrik. He had no intentions of creating a replacement, which would mean end of Tyria.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    He was using the scions to power the warbeast to weaken Kralkatorrik using the scion's shared resonance with Kralkatorrik. He had no intentions of creating a replacement, which would mean end of Tyria.

    the intention was for him to be the replacement, no? like...that was the ENTIRE plan...to absorb the colossal amount of magic that is an elder dragon so he could be powerful enough to fight the other gods. otherwise he was just gallivanting around for no reason whatsoever.

  • @jimmy.9560 said:
    the intention was for him to be the replacement, no? like...that was the ENTIRE plan...to absorb the colossal amount of magic that is an elder dragon so he could be powerful enough to fight the other gods. otherwise he was just gallivanting around for no reason whatsoever.

    Not really, the replacement would need to stay on Tyria and absorb incoming magic. Balthazar wanted to go after the other gods, Tyria be damned.

  • Tanith.5264Tanith.5264 Member ✭✭✭
    1. Aurene absorbed God magic. No specific connection to resurrection in that, but it is God magic.

    I don't know about resurrection, but your post does remind me that there was a fleeting glimpse of Balthazar as we were delivering the final crystal blast to Kralky. I noted it, but there was so much going on at that point I couldn't look more closely.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Castigator.3470 said:

    @jimmy.9560 said:
    the intention was for him to be the replacement, no? like...that was the ENTIRE plan...to absorb the colossal amount of magic that is an elder dragon so he could be powerful enough to fight the other gods. otherwise he was just gallivanting around for no reason whatsoever.

    Not really, the replacement would need to stay on Tyria and absorb incoming magic. Balthazar wanted to go after the other gods, Tyria be damned.

    Exactly. Balthazar was going to go after the gods after killing Kralkatorrik. This would then leave a large gap in the All for Tyria. Which would leave Tyria with nothing to regulate magic anymore. As Ogden said:

    Ogden Stonehealer: Too much magic, and the world spins out of control. Too little, and it crumbles into darkness.

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