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Official Feedback Thread: LWS4 Episode 5: All or Nothing


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only issue with the episode i have so far is that the drop rate for the exquisite serpentite jewel material is ridiculously low, like i have opened over half the chests twice now and haven't seen a single piece let alone the 3 required for each diviners orichalcum imbued inscription. i was wondering if this was intentional.

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Map was moderately interesting, but largely vacant of encounters which I found odd. I'm used to exploring the edges of maps from GW1 days and found the sudden teleport while flying back to some other point in the map confusing. Couldn't a strong winds warning or something pop up in advance of that like with the water areas with strong current warnings?The heart acquisitions weren't particularly challenging.The story was far too short for the time I waited to see the next episode. I finished everything within 2.5 hrs. I understand the Meta event and final battle required a great deal of work, but I truly wasn't expecting to gobble up that much of your efforts in such a short period.

! I did not care for the emotional investment in some npc, the pursuit of some prophesy followed by betrayal of those values in the end. I've repeatedly seen comments on what good story telling it is that has been accomplished here. However, in my experience providing dark, sad, or crushing endings is not work - it's trying to make a positive outcome and uplifting narrative be revealed which is the best writing. I don't think ending on such a dour note is going to be cherished unless you come up with some real rewards for the patience. The worst part is if you reintroduce Aurene it's going to be a de-escalation of the investment so I know you can't bring her back.

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@"Malavian.4695" said:Map was moderately interesting, but largely vacant of encounters which I found odd. I'm used to exploring the edges of maps from GW1 days and found the sudden teleport while flying back to some other point in the map confusing. Couldn't a strong winds warning or something pop up in advance of that like with the water areas with strong current warnings?The heart acquisitions weren't particularly challenging.The story was far too short for the time I waited to see the next episode. I finished everything within 2.5 hrs. I understand the Meta event and final battle required a great deal of work, but I truly wasn't expecting to gobble up that much of your efforts in such a short period.

! I did not care for the emotional investment in some npc, the pursuit of some prophesy followed by betrayal of those values in the end. I've repeatedly seen comments on what good story telling it is that has been accomplished here. However, in my experience providing dark, sad, or crushing endings is not work - it's trying to make a positive outcome and uplifting narrative be revealed which is the best writing. I don't think ending on such a dour note is going to be cherished unless you come up with some real rewards for the patience. The worst part is if you reintroduce Aurene it's going to be a de-escalation of the investment so I know you can't bring her back.

! I don't think it would be de-escalating at all. It's just a matter of timing. This death can be the fuel that ignites our desire to finish Kralk off despite the possible consequences, as if we need it anyway given the fact that if left alone he'll devour reality itself via the mists and we may never get a better chance again. Then bringing her back after we make that decision and sort of fulfill that reckless abandon of our actions as Joko sort of put it, Aurene comes back. We don't use her directly in that last fight, but she still shows up to fulfil the role she was born for. People just keep reiterating how it would seemingly null this moment of her death in this instance if she was brought back, but essentially making her entire existence, our bond with her, and half of the events of this expansion and season by having her die leaving us without an answer is far far worse than simply having her resurrect with whatever magic Joko had.. especially given Ogden, the domain of the lost, and the other bits seemingly glaring at us. Plus the way they ended the episode? Black, almost "to be continued" screen with no follow-up dialogue with our comrades? I would personally find the story far less enjoyable essentially resetting our motives and finding some brand new solution to our problems than picking up right where we left off and simply letting prior events finally get more meaning (i.e. Aurene and Joko, Glint and Aurene private talk about ascension). And having Aurene simply join the mists like Glint and accomplish her destiny there would leave me wondering, "okay, so why couldn't Glint just fill this role the entire time? That's dumb.." It just annoys me everytime someone says that this episode and her death are completely invalidated if she comes back to life next episode because it feels like it's just this buzz-phrase everyone is throwing out without actually considering the rest of this season. Primordus and Jormag's being put back to sleep via a mursaat disguised rogue god and an old junky asuran machine kind of invalidated the threat they ever posed when they were introduced but in the end it led Balthazar to the crystal desert and where we are now, so acting like Aurene resurrecting herself would be invalidating a long-arching story and prophecy seems kind of short-sighted. Especially given that it would mirror we witnessed the player character, not even remotely as powerful an elder dragon candidate, doing that exact same thing when they returned from the dead not that long ago from a domain that despite being ravaged of spirits for former rogue god's army when the player character died, is in far more disarray now that it's been ravaged by Kralk. (Assuming that Aurene would even wind up there which she may not given whatever her and Glint talked about in their private meeting and her being a dragon.)

! But anyway, sorry. Just think people are underestimating the writers' abilities to make an Aurene resurrection a valid direction and undermining essentially an entire season of build-up and forgetting previously used plot-devices. Would it really benefit the story more to have Aurene be completely and forever dead and us having to find yet another way of dealing with Elder Dragon magic containment and balance? Is finding some magical device, say the staff of the mists and having it explained that it can somehow balance everything knowing that any future elder dragon threat we have we can just take care of with the wave of some magical artifact? Wouldn't that pretty much immediately invalidate any future elder dragon threat in the future? Would it not be better to have Aurene come back to life, finish the Kralk story-line and then move onto something else for a little while now that Aurene has taken up the mantle and we can focus on other plots or see new lands? How long do the writers and players really want to spend on this same Kralk dilemma when the easier solution has already had the foundation laid allowing for closure and a chance for us to move in a new direction?

! Also, to end my little tirade, just because Aurene comes back doesn't mean she's going to be our "little pet dragon" as some people have put it and negate the threat of any future enemy we face because we have a powerful elder dragon on our side. Her role isn't to be the Tyria dragon sheriff, it's to balance the magic. Arguably, that just makes her involvement with ending Joko even more telling of the fact that it was necessary for her to gain his magic to lead to her resurrection and fulfillment of the prophecy, because it was what her destiny was driving her to do to get to where she needed to be and not just because she's our little dragon daughter/pet that finishes our battles for us every time we're in trouble.

! I may be blinded by rage that my favorite character is now impaled by purple spikes, but you'd have to be even more blind to not see that the benefit to the overall story or the payoff of where the story has been is far more than if she were to just stay dead or become some ghostly mist dragon being like Glint. And again, just a black screen ending to one of the darkest plots in the entire game with the words "I don't know" and we just reach the conclusion that the next logical and least invalidating story direction is going to be to.. what?... find some other "McGuffin" that solves our current problem or we spend another whole season dealing with this same problem with morale completely wiped from our current loss? How would that work from a story perspective? We just write the commander and friends to forget about it and keep on trucking along? If so, so much again for this season, bonding with Aurene, and pretty much everything else since... what season was Aurene's egg introduced again so many years ago? Like, seriously, why would her resurrection be invalidating compared to essentially nullifying that many years worth of story development only to swerve off the damn rails and go in a completely different direction or have Aurene going to the mists fulfilling some role that apparently she can fill but Glint couldn't do from this mists this entire time?

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@Blur.3465 said:Something happened to the Racing Scarf. It is all too shiny and it lost on colors :(

I believe this is because a lighting issue with the Racing Scarf was fixed in the patch. But I agree, it looks too shiny and all the colors look very washed out now, e.g. even dyeing it Shadow Abyss now will result in a quite frankly rather sad looking gray instead of a nice deep black. Please revert this fix! :(

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ANET I love you, but you guys are killing me! It's starting to look like the Game of Thrones! Every story update I hold my breath to see who survives... already lost my beloved plant Trahearne. Holding my breath for Braham and Canach, BUT if you lay a finger on Logan!!! So help me Dwayna! Darn it ANET! ... why you are so mean... but I still love you...

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Big dragon killed the little one. No wonder, it is not clear how it was possible to rely on a different result)The death of the little dragon did not upset me personally.I don't care about he, as does the whole Commander company.We will kill the big dragon sometime anyway, so the development of the story does not really interest me.Honestly, I generally love WvW in this game much more than all PvE modes. With one exception - the episodes with Scarlett and the destruction of the Lion's Arch, the Tower of Nightmares - it was epic.New maps and Kralkatolik are very beautiful, respect for the artists.The episode with the oil (burning) in my opinion contains an error. Even if we follow the short path (lay the river of oil through the fence), then there is not enough oil, or the skill stops working altogether. I am killed half an hour, until just to restart the game. Everything worked the first time.

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@BadWolf.1543 said:

@Blur.3465 said:Something happened to the Racing Scarf. It is all too shiny and it lost on colors :(

I believe this is because a lighting issue with the Racing Scarf was fixed in the patch. But I agree, it looks too shiny and all the colors look very washed out now, e.g. even dyeing it Shadow Abyss now will result in a quite frankly rather sad looking gray instead of a nice deep black. Please revert this fix! :(

Yea it looks really bad now :( it's cloth, it shouldn't shine like that and look like metal.I really hope it gets looked into, as the scarf is a huge part of my character's style; and right now I am really finding it horribly ugly considering how bad the colors are on it, as well as shine >.<

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I am glad I read about the ending of the story before starting the episode. Now I can avoid getting depressed and heartbroken by skipping the story and wait until episode 6 to do 5 and 6 together (or skip 5 altogether) - when and if there is less tragic and more heroic (positive/hopeful) ending; where we kill the big bad dragon, save the world, the Commander triumphs, Aurene is restored (somehow) and we can move on to new adventures - such as CANTHA (couldn't resist).

I love the map and the setting and the new items/sigils etc. I really wanted to get out of the desert and snowy regions are my favourite. So, apart from the story arc and its ending, I love the episode :)

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The story was too short and the ending left a sour taste in my mouth. It was dark, depressing, bleak and left me with a strong feeling that we've been cheated. (The story instances themselves were brilliant and the kralk fight was a lot of fun, I just hate the direction the plot has turned in).

And now what? Dumped back into the world with a 3-4 month wait for whatever the big reveal is? Yeah, that doesn't work that well.

Map completion seems to be blocked by both the story and the meta? Why?

Then there's the weapons collections... ugh. I appreciate that you want long term achievements and goals to keep people on the map but with the mats required this just seem grindy as hell. I hope the Exquisite Serpentite Jewels have a high chance to drop off the home instance node a lot (and why are they account bound?) I've got one Jewel so far so haven't been able to craft a single weapon. From the wiki I see you need to perform tasks to unlock the ascended version, that sounds like fun though.

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@"yohoia.1850" said:I am glad I read about the ending of the story before starting the episode. Now I can avoid getting depressed and heartbroken by skipping the story and wait until episode 6 to do 5 and 6 together (or skip 5 altogether) - when and if there is less tragic and more heroic (positive/hopeful) ending; where we kill the big bad dragon, save the world, the Commander triumphs, Aurene is restored (somehow) and we can move on to new adventures - such as CANTHA (couldn't resist).

I love the map and the setting and the new items/sigils etc. I really wanted to get out of the desert and snowy regions are my favourite. So, apart from the story arc and its ending, I love the episode :)

that until the next main character snuff it, Anet should make a votation poo thread and title it "what main character you want us to kill next? vote here". Seriously your order mentor, Belinda, Eir, Trehearne, Blish, Aurene. Zojja hasnt apeared since she was released from her pod wayyyyy back on HoT so she might be dead for all we know, gosh even SNAFF appeared and the one to recieve him was Tai- omg i just remembered that Taimi its supposed to be terminal... there is another main character on death´s door right there, i just answered my own question

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I would like to break it to 2 parts. First part being the story part, including instances, and the second being the extras part, map, achievements etc.First part:

! Positives: Story was really good, really insightful and I loved the ending, despite the loss of a really important character. I really think that we can have a lot more things to do now that Aurene is out of the way, even if she manages to come back, we will get even more lore. Instances were really well made, music was amazing and it's always nice hearing Glint giving you tips.! Negatives: Like most people mentioned, story was really sort. I seriously thought that we can have at least half an hour more story, since it took like 3-4 months to get that episode and I must say I am really dissapointed in that. We didn't even get the classic part of the story, where you run around helping hearts to show the preparation you are going through, in order to face the enemy.

Second part:Positives: I always loved the Shiverpeaks, so you immediately got me there, amazing scenery, catacombs are just what someone would expect from Dwarves. Really love some achievements, like the skritt ones, where you have to help them get the Light of the Deldrimor, can be really informative in a funny way plus the Branded attacks, are really insightful to give you information on the situation.Negatives: For me it's really bad that there isn't a Griffon race in the Shiverpeaks, literaly the best place to put a race on it. Felt a bit of lazy made. No imagination on the legendary longbow, Pharus.

In general, I feel that in terms of instances you have put a lot of time on it and we can see it, cause story is amazing in many parts, especially after PoF came out, but when it comes to extra content I feel that it's really lazy made. Sure, 4th episode had an amazing map with really nice achievements, 5th episode has a very nice map too, but I really don't feel that it was properly made. Seriously, stop being lazy at some points, it is really clear to see and stop promoting the Beetle, where it doesn't belong. It's place is on the Crystal Desert, not in Shiverpeaks. Mountains are Springer and Griffon territories, we should use them both on the map completion and on achievements. Really love this game, but after PoF came out, it seems as you are struggling with a lot of things. Season 4 was a bit a slopy, one episode good the other not so much.Really hope you can do something better in next content, cause you have the means to do it.

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The episode with the oil (burning) in my opinion contains an error. Even if we follow the short path (lay the river of oil through the fence), then there is not enough oil, or the skill stops working altogether. I am killed half an hour, until just to restart the game. Everything worked the first time.

You can only have like 8 or so oil drops at one time. The oil stops working because you've used the maxiumum amount of oil at one time. You need to spread out the oil further apart so you use less and cover a greater distance. The first two are a lot closer to the fire than the third one, thats why it sort of seems wonky, especially when theres zero explanation as to why you cant drop more oil. Hope this helps.

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Firstly, I would like to say the story was excellent and moving, and IMO very well done.

The map is wonderfully explorey, with lots of interesting places and beautiful areas. Loved that underground dwarf tunnel to the mastery point, it was quite fun to find the way along it without its being a frustrating puzzle. The heart vendors seemed to have so little of interest that it doesn't seem like the hearts will be re-done much, except by people who want to finish the dailies. (Note: edited out comment on Priory heart, because I clearly had not understood how it was done.)

The movement mechanics on the oil slicks during the oil field adventure were very amusing, and I thought you ought to possibly make an ice-skating rink or adventure somewhere. =D

I flew my griffon to the top of those falls (in the southeast, I think?) and perched on a branded crystal sticking out of the cliff and looked down at the water...no diving goggles? It feels like there ought to be.

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I actually thought the length of the story was about right, but there could be a little more explanation of certain fights, as they can prove annoying rather than fun - for example in the first fight it is difficult to see where to stand in the circle.

So far I like the new map and it is nice to go back to more vanilla style environments, deserts maps are not my favourite.

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Ok honest open feedback. I wanted a few days after completing the story to collect my thoughts.

To be honest when I play a game I log in to escape the tragedies of the real world. I want a feel good experience not a depressing ending.

It seems like the writers are very limited (whether due to management restrictions or other) due to the fact that the only way they seem to be able to deliver a story is through killing off characters. This is the type of writing and writers I avoid when I read.

I will say it raises question from me personally as to whether or not I will continue doing the Living Story.i

The maps are beautiful, as always I could and never would complain about the graphics kudos to the art and development teams.

Thanks!!

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@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

The episode with the oil (burning) in my opinion contains an error. Even if we follow the short path (lay the river of oil through the fence), then there is not enough oil, or the skill stops working altogether. I am killed half an hour, until just to restart the game. Everything worked the first time.

You can only have like 8 or so oil drops at one time. The oil stops working because you've used the maxiumum amount of oil at one time. You need to spread out the oil further apart so you use less and cover a greater distance. The first two are a lot closer to the fire than the third one, thats why it sort of seems wonky, especially when theres zero explanation as to why you cant drop more oil. Hope this helps.

You can also go "through" the fence to make it really easy.

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Been playing the content in "All or Nothing" for a few days now, and I'm pretty amazed at the release, for a lot of good reasons, but a few not-so-good ones.

Things I really like:

  • The final story chapter. Just. Wow. Part of me resents it a little, because it seriously made me cry, and I do prefer the feelgoods that a game gives me, escape from RL and all that, but ultimately I can't stay grumbling for long because that chapter was SO well done. It's left me dying to know what happens next, and I've been pondering possible pathways we could take from here for days. The Zephyrite choir, those beautiful forced camera angles as we watched Aurene fight, having all our allies that we've slowly built up over many chapters come together - just love it.
  • I really love having the central story NPCs involved in the metas and dynamic events, e.g., Rox, Braham, Boticca, Logan.
  • The map design is SO good. I've been soaring over those waterfalls by Maiden's Veil POI on griffon and the HEIGHT of these mountains is just breathtaking. It really feels like we're in the Shiverpeaks, and it's nice seeing how much the artists have grown in their abilities since core Shiverpeak maps.
  • Hunting for the dwarven chests and using the new mastery to do the little jumping/mount puzzles was fun.
  • Loving the Zephyrite singers and how music and tone was integrated into this episode as a theme.

Things I am mixed about:

  • The dwarven catacombs puzzle around The Hammer's Hoard POI. I seriously loved the plate puzzle in the Derelict Delve dwarven area in Desert Highlands in PoF, so I was hoping for something like that but more involved here. Which you did give us, but I really have a love/hate thing going on with it. The rooms are fantastic, I love how each has their own puzzle/thing to solve to work through them, but the way the plates work is very, very awkward. It seems like it's random what plates you can get, and you're limited in some way how many you can get. I HATE that there's only a 30 minute timer on the Light of Deldrimor skill, and there seems to be an awkward 24 hour timer on restarting the puzzle with Frodak, so you can never tell when you're able to go back to him and go again. Why can't this reset AT daily reset? Why do we only have 30 minutes to use the Light of Deldrimor skill? I want to be able to take my time in the rooms and really enjoy them. And the past two days, I haven't been able to get the right plate sequence to get into the final room. Which leads into...

I really, really don't like:

  • How unbelievably difficult it is to obtain serpentite jewels. General consensus from map chat seems to be that the only guaranteed jewels are the chest in The Hammer's Hoard. There's supposedly a chance to obtain them from oil meta, keep meta, and regular dwarven chests. I've gotten ZERO jewels so far. I understand if you're trying to make this a more difficult set to aquire - I went through the slog of making a full ascended minstrels set for my guardian. But this just seems ridiculous and way out of scale. I wish you'd reconsider drop rates from the RNG sources, or make them tradeable. Please? I want the new diviner's set so bad, but this issue makes me want to quit playing this map entirely at times.
  • The oil meta seems to have some serious scaling issues. When we reach the phases where we need to split and defend the separate pumps, while the escort continues on, we had 2+ champions plus loads of veterans/regular mobs spawning on us at the pumps when we only had 3 people there defending. The escort only had 4-5 more and were well away at that point, so I have no idea why we had so many mobs.
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