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So You're one POI away from Map Completion ....


Ash.5274

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The Consul's Tomb is particularly egregious. While you can get in without the story, you do so with RNG. this could mean you have to run the same character through the meta multiple times on multiple days trying to roll entrance to the POI. I am not happy about the horde POI, but at least that one is guaranteed if you complete the pair of Meta events.

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@Boogiepop Void.6473 said:The Consul's Tomb is particularly egregious. While you can get in without the story, you do so with RNG. this could mean you have to run the same character through the meta multiple times on multiple days trying to roll entrance to the POI. I am not happy about the horde POI, but at least that one is guaranteed if you complete the pair of Meta events.

I agree complaints about Consul's Tomb are less unreasonable. Locking map completion behind story or rng is different from locking it behind playing the map. Complaining about Hammer's Hoard is like complaining about Dragon's Stand . . .

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I am a map completer, did world complete 44 times on main account.I usually jump off the story to get to scout the new map, climb-hop-fly up to mountainpeaks, etc( I have become to hate story steps, just banging my spacebar in vain to make it quicker )

The LS3 episode 1 map i did on all 70 alts ( not counting deleted alts ), loved the gliding and updraft and falling

In LS4 they added the locked POI ones to some maps. that was the beginning of the end ( not counting the locked POI in SW )

This final map went even further locking a POI.It now felt like a clear statement: We don't want your kind of player.

Good thing Assassins Creed doesnt have locked POIs

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@Gop.8713 said:

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

Although you claim you read the post I have serious doubts you understood what the point (of interest) of this topic is. The complains are from players who want to 1) - play the game when they do map completion.

If you have no problem with 2) - letting other players to play the game for you OR 3) to buy the map completion OR 4) waiting for a mesmer (this is in fact 2+3) then this map is OK for you and I don't understand why you write here. Because even if this topic will solve somehow the issue (erasing variant 2) and 3) and 4) ) you will still have variant 1) at your disposal. Or you don't like variant 1) - playing the game for map completion? This can explain your attitude.

Not to speak about the time when the map will be old enough. You will have to wait and wait and wait for players. Even if you want to play the game / or you want to buy the POI. In a old map this may be a difficult task. You cannot solo two meta events.

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@Gop.8713 said:Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue.If you have read the thread, you would also know that it is no issue now. But it's going to be.

Those metas are not good enough to make people continue doing them. It's not Tarir or Palawadan. And one of these metas is already quite problematic even on full map (i see it fail more often than it succeeds). In half a year, i can easily see the bottom half to be practically unobtainavble outside of TP. And once that supply dries up, the TP supply will start decreasing as well.

Sure, you can just look at the current situaltion and not bother thinking how it will look in the future, see that you personally had no problem, and keep insisting there's no issue whatsoever. This however won't make it disappear.

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@TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:Gonna have to agree with OP on this. I got around to doing map completion after the story and I was only able to get the last POI because there was a Mesmer offering ports to the POI in question (always tip your Mesmers, btw). Having to wait around for meta events just to do map comp isn't fun. It wasn't fun back in the Orr days (it still isn't fun if you're doing Core Tyria map completion) and it's not fun now. The only difference between Orr maps and this map is that people still do Orr map metas on a semi-frequent basis. Unless Anet has some long term plans for this new map then getting map comp done will be very difficult when the next Living World episode drops.

I just had a flash of Mesmers striking at Thunderhead Keep... It made me happy :)

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@"Gop.8713" said:Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game,It's not available by simply "playing the game." You have to be present for two meta events, neither of which run often. They take considerable amount of time and aren't guaranteed to succeed. Then you have to do a JP. This differs from all existing POI: the worst of which requires mere participation in a single, successful meta.

2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp,For 9 gold. That's also unrealistic for many people. And it's wildly different from any other POI in the game.

3) using a mesmer portDependent on other people doing this, whereas no other POI in the game requires that.

4) tp to a friend,Actually, that doesn't work unless you're already in the same instance. And the 'friend' has to remain there, without logging out. One can't leave a toon there; they get booted out in any new instance

so there is no issue.That depends on how one defines an issue. I maintain that it's an issue with whether the map is fun to complete.

the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist,The variety is a good thing. But it's a variety that doesn't really include something that fits in with the previous patterns of map completion.

such a change is unnecessary . . .Agreed, it's not absolutely "necessary;" it certainly doesn't 100% prevent map completion. This isn't a blocking issue in terms of the game.

It's something that undermines people's enjoyment of the map.


As I've said before, it's up to ANet to decide what designs they think will suit the game & the community best. And it's up to me to point out that this is the sort of thing that discourages me from returning to the map.

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Good that this got patched. I hope they will remember that people do not like this kind of design while doing the next LS map.

@Iris Ng.9845 said:So no one complains about the PoI that locked behind the assault event in South Auric Basin? That no one bothers doing any pre-events anymore except the meta and that doesn't inconvenience anyone enough to protest?That's probably because that event chain can be soloed. Done that a few times when i got tired of waiting for other players.Notice also, that getting that point does not even require succeeding at the last step of that event chain - merely starting it is enough. Although i agree, that access to that point is way too limited, as you can get in there for only a short moment in the 2-hour long meta.

If that event was much harder and failed more often i bet you'd hear complains more often.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

Although you claim you read the post I have serious doubts you understood what the point (of interest) of this topic is. The complains are from players who want to 1) -
play the game
when they do map completion.

If you have no problem with 2) -
letting other players to play the game for you
OR 3)
to buy the map completion
OR 4)
waiting for a mesmer
(this is in fact 2+3) then this map is OK
for you
and I don't understand why you write here. Because even if this topic will solve somehow the issue (erasing variant 2) and 3) and 4) ) you will still have variant 1) at your disposal. Or you don't like variant 1) -
playing the game
for map completion? This can explain your attitude.

Not to speak about the time when the map will be old enough. You will have to wait and wait and wait for players. Even if you want to play the game / or you want to buy the POI. In a old map this may be a difficult task. You cannot solo two meta events.

I'm sorry but I honestly cannot understand what you are trying to say in the first two paragraphs . . .

I do understand the question in the last paragraph, and it was solved by the item being tradeable. If it over time the plates were to become rare enough to be valuable, it would become worth it for ppl to org the metas. The solution is built right in . . .

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Today's patched fixed a bug (according to ANet) so that the POI unlocks from outside the green room.

Fixed a bug in which the Hammer's Hoard point of interest could not be activated from outside of the gate.

It's interesting that they 'fixed' the one that could be accessed by playing the map but not the one that depends on story or rng . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I don't really see how this is an issue. Map completion is being tied to events in the map. If you don't want to do the events, the items that give you map completion are tradeable on the tp. So players have multiple paths to achieve the goal of map completion and one of those paths is actually, y'know, playing the map. So where's the issue? It's not like some nefarious players swooped in and scooped up all the available items leaving the rest of us with no ready means for acquiring more. I'd say this choice represents a lesson well learned, so kudos to anet :)

If you actually read the thread you'd see that many people have brought up why this is an issue.

If you did read the thread then let me say the following: just because it's not an issue
for you
doesn't mean there's no issue.

Yeah that is really frustrating when ppl post in a thread without reading it and it happens a lot on this forum so I can forgive you for thinking I might have done so, but I did not . . .

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

While the rest of the game, most of it, is alt friendly, this is NOT alt friendly. I like to complete zones on alts. Zone completion in itself is a fun thing to do. Locking this behind 2 different metas, means repeating 2 metas on 41 alts, which is 82 times I'd have to do the meta to get a POI. Or buy them 41 times for the trading post. I don't see why you or anyone would think this is a good design decision.

You're doing it with one character it's no big deal I agree. But punishing people who spent extra on character slots is never good business in my opinion.

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@Gop.8713 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Today's patched fixed a bug (according to ANet) so that the POI unlocks from outside the green room.

Fixed a bug in which the Hammer's Hoard point of interest could not be activated from outside of the gate.

It's interesting that they 'fixed' the one that could be accessed by playing the map but not the one that depends on story or rng . . .

Yes.I wonder how hard it is to adjust the trigger radius on a POI. And I wonder whether they saw the reports about the treasure room one (since people have been porting that right & left) but didn't notice reports about the other(s).

I did see a dev there on the first day, hanging out. During that time, people were porting green, but not to any other POI. Probably just a dev working on the puzzle themselves, but maybe checking out what the fuss was.

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@"Iris Ng.9845" said:So no one complains about the PoI that locked behind the assault event in South Auric Basin? That no one bothers doing any pre-events anymore except the meta and that doesn't inconvenience anyone enough to protest?

I have consistently lodged protests about any map completion gating since the game launched.That POI in AB got only moderate attention from me, because there are ways around the assault event (even before mounts). There were other, more egregious "gates" in that map before it was adjusted about 6 months after HoT started. I'm also more annoyed at a pet that can't be charmed without the DS meta, about how much of that map remains locked behind the meta, and about how annoying Lake Doric is to complete. I stopped doing multiple map completions with Lake Doric, because it simply wasn't fun. Before that, I had done story and map on a lot of alt toons ... because it was fun to see what I could do faster, better. With Doric, it wasn't fun at all (for me, anyhow).

But after a while, if ANet chooses not to act, then I try not to let it bother me. Some things are worth bringing to their attention over the years, but for me, map completion isn't one. They know that some people don't like the gating and they still think it makes a better game somehow. Since they have been succeeding at quality games for 10 years, I'm willing to accept that they might know better than I what works for the community.

tl;dr yes, people do protest. Sometimes ANet agrees and sometimes not. A lot of people choose not to keep spending their energy on worrying about that.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I don't really see how this is an issue. Map completion is being tied to events in the map. If you don't want to do the events, the items that give you map completion are tradeable on the tp. So players have multiple paths to achieve the goal of map completion and one of those paths is actually, y'know, playing the map. So where's the issue? It's not like some nefarious players swooped in and scooped up all the available items leaving the rest of us with no ready means for acquiring more. I'd say this choice represents a lesson well learned, so kudos to anet :)

If you actually read the thread you'd see that many people have brought up why this is an issue.

If you did read the thread then let me say the following: just because it's not an issue
for you
doesn't mean there's no issue.

Yeah that is really frustrating when ppl post in a thread without reading it and it happens a lot on this forum so I can forgive you for thinking I might have done so, but I did not . . .

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

While the rest of the game, most of it, is alt friendly, this is NOT alt friendly. I like to complete zones on alts. Zone completion in itself is a fun thing to do. Locking this behind 2 different metas, means repeating 2 metas on 41 alts, which is 82 times I'd have to do the meta to get a POI. Or buy them 41 times for the trading post. I don't see why you or anyone would think this is a good design decision.

You're doing it with one character it's no big deal I agree. But punishing people who spent extra on character slots is never good business in my opinion.

Maybe they didn't like the thought of your getting ten bl keys for free. The reason I, specifically, like this is that the last episode offered its rewards to ppl who liked to log in and stand next to the tp. At least so far, this episode is offering greater rewards to ppl who log in to play the game. I like playing the game, so this makes me happy . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I don't really see how this is an issue. Map completion is being tied to events in the map. If you don't want to do the events, the items that give you map completion are tradeable on the tp. So players have multiple paths to achieve the goal of map completion and one of those paths is actually, y'know, playing the map. So where's the issue? It's not like some nefarious players swooped in and scooped up all the available items leaving the rest of us with no ready means for acquiring more. I'd say this choice represents a lesson well learned, so kudos to anet :)

If you actually read the thread you'd see that many people have brought up why this is an issue.

If you did read the thread then let me say the following: just because it's not an issue
for you
doesn't mean there's no issue.

Yeah that is really frustrating when ppl post in a thread without reading it and it happens a lot on this forum so I can forgive you for thinking I might have done so, but I did not . . .

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

While the rest of the game, most of it, is alt friendly, this is NOT alt friendly. I like to complete zones on alts. Zone completion in itself is a fun thing to do. Locking this behind 2 different metas, means repeating 2 metas on 41 alts, which is 82 times I'd have to do the meta to get a POI. Or buy them 41 times for the trading post. I don't see why you or anyone would think this is a good design decision.

You're doing it with one character it's no big deal I agree. But punishing people who spent extra on character slots is never good business in my opinion.

Maybe they didn't like the thought of your getting ten bl keys for free. The reason I, specifically, like this is that the last episode offered its rewards to ppl who liked to log in and stand next to the tp. At least so far, this episode is offering greater rewards to ppl who log in to play the game. I like playing the game, so this makes me happy . . .

For free? lol

First of all 41 characters going through isn't likely to give you 10 black lion keys anyway. Secondly well over $300 of character slots is not free either. And I am playing the game.

That said, out of all the zone completes so far, this decision would be the worst of them. In fact, the decision was so bad, Anet changed it and made it so you could get that POI without doing both metas. Apparently they don't care how many characters I complete zones on.

To that end, I currently have 13 characters that have completed every story and zone in the game. I don't do it for the keys. I do it because it's what I enjoy. Essentially Anet is moving the bar by adding the second meta and then a puzzle on top of it. The community called Anet on it and Anet backed down. You can say, I suppose, that Anet wanted to push the limits of what they could "get away" with, with regards to zone complete and found the community was agitated enough that this crossed a line that they previously haven't crossed.

At any rate, as of the last update it's no longer an issue, since you can get that POI without doing the meta. The other POI I get from doing the story which I'll be doing anyway.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I don't really see how this is an issue. Map completion is being tied to events in the map. If you don't want to do the events, the items that give you map completion are tradeable on the tp. So players have multiple paths to achieve the goal of map completion and one of those paths is actually, y'know, playing the map. So where's the issue? It's not like some nefarious players swooped in and scooped up all the available items leaving the rest of us with no ready means for acquiring more. I'd say this choice represents a lesson well learned, so kudos to anet :)

If you actually read the thread you'd see that many people have brought up why this is an issue.

If you did read the thread then let me say the following: just because it's not an issue
for you
doesn't mean there's no issue.

Yeah that is really frustrating when ppl post in a thread without reading it and it happens a lot on this forum so I can forgive you for thinking I might have done so, but I did not . . .

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

While the rest of the game, most of it, is alt friendly, this is NOT alt friendly. I like to complete zones on alts. Zone completion in itself is a fun thing to do. Locking this behind 2 different metas, means repeating 2 metas on 41 alts, which is 82 times I'd have to do the meta to get a POI. Or buy them 41 times for the trading post. I don't see why you or anyone would think this is a good design decision.

You're doing it with one character it's no big deal I agree. But punishing people who spent extra on character slots is never good business in my opinion.

Maybe they didn't like the thought of your getting ten bl keys for free. The reason I, specifically, like this is that the last episode offered its rewards to ppl who liked to log in and stand next to the tp. At least so far, this episode is offering greater rewards to ppl who log in to play the game. I like playing the game, so this makes me happy . . .

For free? lol

First of all 41 characters going through isn't likely to give you 10 black lion keys anyway. Secondly well over $300 of character slots is not free either. And I am playing the game.

That said, out of all the zone completes so far, this decision would be the worst of them. In fact, the decision was so bad, Anet changed it and made it so you could get that POI without doing both metas. Apparently they don't care how many characters I complete zones on.

To that end, I currently have 13 characters that have completed every story and zone in the game. I don't do it for the keys. I do it because it's what I enjoy. Essentially Anet is moving the bar by adding the second meta and then a puzzle on top of it. The community called Anet on it and Anet backed down. You can say, I suppose, that Anet wanted to push the limits of what they could "get away" with, with regards to zone complete and found the community was agitated enough that this crossed a line that they previously haven't crossed.

At any rate, as of the last update it's no longer an issue, since you can get that POI without doing the meta. The other POI I get from doing the story which I'll be doing anyway.

That doesn't seem to make sense. Your original complaint was that being forced to play the map for map completion wasn't alt-friendly bc you didn't want to do the metas. Now you're saying you don't care that you still have to do the story bc you were going to do the story anyway. Do all the players who want to do map completion without doing the story not concern you . . ?

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I don't really see how this is an issue. Map completion is being tied to events in the map. If you don't want to do the events, the items that give you map completion are tradeable on the tp. So players have multiple paths to achieve the goal of map completion and one of those paths is actually, y'know, playing the map. So where's the issue? It's not like some nefarious players swooped in and scooped up all the available items leaving the rest of us with no ready means for acquiring more. I'd say this choice represents a lesson well learned, so kudos to anet :)

If you actually read the thread you'd see that many people have brought up why this is an issue.

If you did read the thread then let me say the following: just because it's not an issue
for you
doesn't mean there's no issue.

Yeah that is really frustrating when ppl post in a thread without reading it and it happens a lot on this forum so I can forgive you for thinking I might have done so, but I did not . . .

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

While the rest of the game, most of it, is alt friendly, this is NOT alt friendly. I like to complete zones on alts. Zone completion in itself is a fun thing to do. Locking this behind 2 different metas, means repeating 2 metas on 41 alts, which is 82 times I'd have to do the meta to get a POI. Or buy them 41 times for the trading post. I don't see why you or anyone would think this is a good design decision.

You're doing it with one character it's no big deal I agree. But punishing people who spent extra on character slots is never good business in my opinion.

Maybe they didn't like the thought of your getting ten bl keys for free. The reason I, specifically, like this is that the last episode offered its rewards to ppl who liked to log in and stand next to the tp. At least so far, this episode is offering greater rewards to ppl who log in to play the game. I like playing the game, so this makes me happy . . .

For free? lol

First of all 41 characters going through isn't likely to give you 10 black lion keys anyway. Secondly well over $300 of character slots is not free either. And I am playing the game.

That said, out of all the zone completes so far, this decision would be the worst of them. In fact, the decision was so bad, Anet changed it and made it so you could get that POI without doing both metas. Apparently they don't care how many characters I complete zones on.

To that end, I currently have 13 characters that have completed every story and zone in the game. I don't do it for the keys. I do it because it's what I enjoy. Essentially Anet is moving the bar by adding the second meta and then a puzzle on top of it. The community called Anet on it and Anet backed down. You can say, I suppose, that Anet wanted to push the limits of what they could "get away" with, with regards to zone complete and found the community was agitated enough that this crossed a line that they previously haven't crossed.

At any rate, as of the last update it's no longer an issue, since you can get that POI without doing the meta. The other POI I get from doing the story which I'll be doing anyway.I think that ArenaNet are certainly interested in making their content last longer and that they'd rather go a little too far and backpedal a little when people complain. There is the issue of course that people don't all play one character or 41 in your case. I've got 8 and have 10 slots myself. So to keep all of these people busy without getting bored is tricky. ArenaNet seems to focus around how much time things cost and how they can extend that. The usual tools are repetition or grind as some call it and setting up barriers that you have to take time to cover. Barriers like masteries and straight material or gold cost. I'm finding that out especially now there is at last a legendary skin that I do like (Pharus). There are parts of this that I like doing, but the straight up gold and material cost of some things are a bit disheartening. I mean the mystic coins and amalgamated gemstones are a huge deal for someone like me, but also getting 7 more mastery points in the core mastery which requires me to do a lot of things I don't really enjoy just so it enables me to spend 100 gold on mystic Anyways that's just one example and you'll be aware of this anyway but yeah, just to illustrate that everything that they do from map size to collections all are made with the idea in mind that it takes a long(er) time to do it.

That's not necessarily the most exciting tool set for me as a player and in part they also do this to make money since it can push people to buy gems to get gold to cover a lot of the more tedious grind. However, I think that there are a few elements where they should really hold off on that and map completion is one of them. They've tried similar things on different maps before. Like the POIs that you need a roller beetle for to get to and as far as I can tell, every time they do something like this there is a big backlash. So I have to wonder why they keep doing it. I guess most of the time people will stop complaining and workarounds are found.

In this case I'm also glad they changed it because there aren't always Mesmers standing around to port you in like some have said.

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I don't really see how this is an issue. Map completion is being tied to events in the map. If you don't want to do the events, the items that give you map completion are tradeable on the tp. So players have multiple paths to achieve the goal of map completion and one of those paths is actually, y'know, playing the map. So where's the issue? It's not like some nefarious players swooped in and scooped up all the available items leaving the rest of us with no ready means for acquiring more. I'd say this choice represents a lesson well learned, so kudos to anet :)

If you actually read the thread you'd see that many people have brought up why this is an issue.

If you did read the thread then let me say the following: just because it's not an issue
for you
doesn't mean there's no issue.

Yeah that is really frustrating when ppl post in a thread without reading it and it happens a lot on this forum so I can forgive you for thinking I might have done so, but I did not . . .

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

While the rest of the game, most of it, is alt friendly, this is NOT alt friendly. I like to complete zones on alts. Zone completion in itself is a fun thing to do. Locking this behind 2 different metas, means repeating 2 metas on 41 alts, which is 82 times I'd have to do the meta to get a POI. Or buy them 41 times for the trading post. I don't see why you or anyone would think this is a good design decision.

You're doing it with one character it's no big deal I agree. But punishing people who spent extra on character slots is never good business in my opinion.

Maybe they didn't like the thought of your getting ten bl keys for free. The reason I, specifically, like this is that the last episode offered its rewards to ppl who liked to log in and stand next to the tp. At least so far, this episode is offering greater rewards to ppl who log in to play the game. I like playing the game, so this makes me happy . . .

For free? lol

First of all 41 characters going through isn't likely to give you 10 black lion keys anyway. Secondly well over $300 of character slots is not free either. And I am playing the game.

That said, out of all the zone completes so far, this decision would be the worst of them. In fact, the decision was so bad, Anet changed it and made it so you could get that POI without doing both metas. Apparently they don't care how many characters I complete zones on.

To that end, I currently have 13 characters that have completed every story and zone in the game. I don't do it for the keys. I do it because it's what I enjoy. Essentially Anet is moving the bar by adding the second meta and then a puzzle on top of it. The community called Anet on it and Anet backed down. You can say, I suppose, that Anet wanted to push the limits of what they could "get away" with, with regards to zone complete and found the community was agitated enough that this crossed a line that they previously haven't crossed.

At any rate, as of the last update it's no longer an issue, since you can get that POI without doing the meta. The other POI I get from doing the story which I'll be doing anyway.

That doesn't seem to make sense. Your original complaint was that being forced to play the map for map completion wasn't alt-friendly bc you didn't want to do the metas. Now you're saying you don't care that you still have to do the story bc you were going to do the story anyway. Do all the players who want to do map completion without doing the story not concern you . . ?

Actually my complaint was 2 metas seperated by an hour. Story was never my complaint. In Kourna we have to do a meta to get map complete anyway and an event. But the event appears frequently as does the meta. This complaint is about upping the anti. Making it 2 metas and a puzzle to get that point of interest WHICH ANET FIXED. Obviously they must have thought the complaints had some merit too.

Upping the ante is the problem. If we don't say something now, next time it might be six metas, and four puzzles.

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@Gop.8713 said:That doesn't seem to make sense. Your original complaint was that being forced to play the map for map completion wasn't alt-friendly bc you didn't want to do the metas. Now you're saying you don't care that you still have to do the story bc you were going to do the story anyway. Do all the players who want to do map completion without doing the story not concern you . . ?Considering that the map acces itself is gated behind story? Not especially.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I don't really see how this is an issue. Map completion is being tied to events in the map. If you don't want to do the events, the items that give you map completion are tradeable on the tp. So players have multiple paths to achieve the goal of map completion and one of those paths is actually, y'know, playing the map. So where's the issue? It's not like some nefarious players swooped in and scooped up all the available items leaving the rest of us with no ready means for acquiring more. I'd say this choice represents a lesson well learned, so kudos to anet :)

If you actually read the thread you'd see that many people have brought up why this is an issue.

If you did read the thread then let me say the following: just because it's not an issue
for you
doesn't mean there's no issue.

Yeah that is really frustrating when ppl post in a thread without reading it and it happens a lot on this forum so I can forgive you for thinking I might have done so, but I did not . . .

Supposing you have also read the thread you would have seen that the poi in question is available by 1) playing the game, 2) letting someone else play the game for you and buying the map completion item off the tp, 3) using a mesmer port or 4) tp to a friend, so there is no issue. Now if anet wants to move the poi or expand its radius so that it is available to players too cheap, lazy and friendless to get it through one of the existing methods I'd have no problem with it, but that wouldn't change the fact that given the variety of means of access to the poi that currently exist, such a change is unnecessary . . .

While the rest of the game, most of it, is alt friendly, this is NOT alt friendly. I like to complete zones on alts. Zone completion in itself is a fun thing to do. Locking this behind 2 different metas, means repeating 2 metas on 41 alts, which is 82 times I'd have to do the meta to get a POI. Or buy them 41 times for the trading post. I don't see why you or anyone would think this is a good design decision.

You're doing it with one character it's no big deal I agree. But punishing people who spent extra on character slots is never good business in my opinion.

Maybe they didn't like the thought of your getting ten bl keys for free. The reason I, specifically, like this is that the last episode offered its rewards to ppl who liked to log in and stand next to the tp. At least so far, this episode is offering greater rewards to ppl who log in to play the game. I like playing the game, so this makes me happy . . .

For free? lol

First of all 41 characters going through isn't likely to give you 10 black lion keys anyway. Secondly well over $300 of character slots is not free either. And I am playing the game.

That said, out of all the zone completes so far, this decision would be the worst of them. In fact, the decision was so bad, Anet changed it and made it so you could get that POI without doing both metas. Apparently they don't care how many characters I complete zones on.

To that end, I currently have 13 characters that have completed every story and zone in the game. I don't do it for the keys. I do it because it's what I enjoy. Essentially Anet is moving the bar by adding the second meta and then a puzzle on top of it. The community called Anet on it and Anet backed down. You can say, I suppose, that Anet wanted to push the limits of what they could "get away" with, with regards to zone complete and found the community was agitated enough that this crossed a line that they previously haven't crossed.

At any rate, as of the last update it's no longer an issue, since you can get that POI without doing the meta. The other POI I get from doing the story which I'll be doing anyway.

That doesn't seem to make sense. Your original complaint was that being forced to play the map for map completion wasn't alt-friendly bc you didn't want to do the metas. Now you're saying you don't care that you still have to do the story bc you were going to do the story anyway. Do all the players who want to do map completion without doing the story not concern you . . ?

Actually my complaint was 2 metas seperated by an hour. Story was never my complaint. In Kourna we have to do a meta to get map complete anyway and an event. But the event appears frequently as does the meta. This complaint is about upping the anti. Making it 2 metas and a puzzle to get that point of interest WHICH ANET FIXED. Obviously they must have thought the complaints had some merit too.

Upping the ante is the problem. If we don't say something now, next time it might be six metas, and four puzzles.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, what I am looking for is the why. Why is it unacceptable to lock a poi behind map metas but acceptable to lock them behind the story? To me the metas are a more natural barrier. It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect ppl to play the map in order to complete the map. The relationship of the story to the map is more tenuous. The two things are released concurrently and one introduces the other but the story is less related to the map than the actual events that comprise the map. To say you must complete the story in order to complete the map still seems reasonable to me, but it is less reasonable than saying you must complete the major events in the map in order to complete the map, which is borderline tautological. The only counterargument you've provided is that you don't want to do the metas and you don't mind doing the story, which isn't very persuasive . . .

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Gop.8713 said:That doesn't seem to make sense. Your original complaint was that being forced to play the map for map completion wasn't alt-friendly bc you didn't want to do the metas. Now you're saying you don't care that you still have to do the story bc you were going to do the story anyway. Do all the players who want to do map completion without doing the story not concern you . . ?Considering that the map acces itself is gated behind story? Not especially.

Except it's not. You have to do the first part of the story on one toon, after which you can access the entire map freely with all of your toons . . .

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