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Official Feedback Thread: LWS4 Episode 5: All or Nothing


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The map is done well. I like that we are all together. Especially with our heroes participating in events. (If you are going to kill all of them too we have now a place where they will be forever). Nice idea to make one of them a heart npc. Feeling myself like at home around there. It's a pity that not all of heroes are with us. Funny skritts ofc.Good that now we can consume volatile magic not only with a griffon (I still haven't it).This map has levels that is nice to explore and walking around. And the whole Grotto is amazing inside.I like Bell Choir Ensemble activity during Wintersday very much and The Master of Music teaches us to play a bit is good idea too.New Crystal Champion PoF mastery let us have a connection with Aurene that is great too. Especially now.Nice dwarven chests and ways to obtain them. Meta events and LS tasks there are interesting.Music is beautiful and cinematics are well done.

Those are some thoughts about a new map and its features. You have done a great job. But it doesn't matter now. Nothing matters now. All that we ever did.

! After the end of the LS I don't wanna say anything. I don't wanna play. I can't be glad and feel joy while I'm there. I just lost the sence. I lost connection. I liked Aurene so much. We were as one. You gave us a hope and you through it away. You ruined us. You just killed her to bring that "new experience" that heroes can die, that they who we love can die, that there is may be not a happy end. Couldn't you do it in another way? Did you think that making fights more easier will make our pain less because we were supposed to make not so much efforts? And I hope you have done that desicion not to lure an attention but because there was no other way to bring a peace inTyria. But you can't replace Aurene with someone else. Never. We grieved so many times. I don't wanna do it again. ANYMORE.

Some thoughts on Jan, 11

! If Aurene's death was a beginning for her Ascention so that makes sence and I can accept it. There is always one way for such rituals and it's a sacrificing ourself to save someone's life because of truly love. The same thing that Dumbledore made with Harry Potter to kill Lord Voldemort.

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For me the story was... anticlimatic.

After all the hype on twitter and from people who played it, I expected more. The graphics were breathtaking, both in the map in the in the actual story. Kralkatorik looked amazing, even if it resembled a kaiju a bit too closely for my taste. Otherwise... it wasn't surprising. Honestly, for me this was one of the story parts that engaged me the least from Season 5. The training with Aurene was lackluster and confusing if anything.

! The actual battle was momumental, but to me felt neither especially hard or overly emotional. I don't know... the final image was really strong. It reminded me of "Morning Star (Lucifer)" or a Michelangelo sculpture/painting. Visually, it was very appealing, looked great on screen.!! I mean... she'll be back. For a second when we were crippling along, I got excited thinking that maybe Aurene would die and give her power to us, making us a god, kind of, but it didn't happen. Same as we won't get to replace Balthazar as the good of war. This is a game story, not a book, I know that I can't expect huge twists or controversial content, but even so for me this story episode - apart from the visual - didn't feel special.

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Kudos to the dev team for an excellent release. I and my guild mates will be having many hours of fun with this episode and map.

Liked:

  • Thunderhead Peaks map is beautiful - the visuals, music, and atmospherics makes me just pause and look around frequently
  • I like the two meta events - they are engaging and about the right amount of difficulty
  • Story was fun to go through and the ending was quite something

Disliked:

  • Light of Deldrimor shouldn't be so short-lived and tied to the plates we get from the meta
  • Invisible walls around some of the cliffs in the middle of the map - I'd like to climb those
  • Lack of a griffon adventure - this map would be ideal for a griffon adventure
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First off, map and environment this episode were extremely good and I see myself going to TP just for the neat environment. Only problems I saw were way too few events on the map and that one POI everyone else is complaining about that requires the two metas. Also some of the achievements on the map are annoying (ten solider crystal one in particular).

Story was meh at first and then picked up during the last instance. First instance was confusing because I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing the first two trials because too vague instructions were given (still have no idea what the first trial was supposed to be). It just felt like boring filler content. Maybe it's just me getting tired of Glint's Trials at this point after doing so many in the story already. Final instance was very well designed and I really got that combat feel and the strong emotions at the ending (Also seeing the familiar ghost in the last instance gave me good feels :D). Really liked the ending cinematic and the lack of direction that we're at at this point since the story is so unpredictable rn.

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Technical: My Thief is running far too slowly as compared to other parts of the game. Thief, mind you.Tale:When I had first begun my travels here years ago, I had pored over the map, and wondered whether we will get to see all the areas that are still names, or simply misted over. I had wished to see Cantha, and Deldrimor.It was my reason for buying the GW1 series. Also, to see 'Glorious Orr!' as my guildie puts it, intact.Now, we finally get to see Deldrimor!Beautiful, marred by the Crystal Dragon, but beautiful.

The story?Well done, minus a few unnecessarily light conversation in the third quarter, but..

All the rush and heartbreak for so long..I stopped for a second, and my body shook out a sob, then another, till tears broke.

For the first time, I have felt like I want to stop playing. Give up. Go away.Stop playing story.That much audience immersion get your writers off?

Yes, it was that well written but it felt like all we have done over the last five years has come to nothing.Losing our mentors of the Pact was bad enough, losing the Marshal was even worse, but losing the flagbearer of the revolution is like killing off Katniss in book 3 of The Hunger Games, and even that isn't pretty.And Aurene is LOVEABLE. She is ..ours. If this is some ill-begotten Game of Thrones pre-release hype, then deflate it, please.

It was like a rough stone machete that snapped the final cord that ties me to Tyria and her fate.Now, I am more than ready to lose myself in the grit and salt of The Mists.

"Yup, Living World is dead, WvW, here I come!"At least, there, the adventure continues, and the only thing taking away our heroes is life.

That precious egg, shining.Every nation who died in the pursuit of its preservation.Glint's LegacyKormir will sprout her eyes back and Balthazar hug Jormag to a fiery death if they knew.

Give me back my baby.Give us back our Aurene.

Tyria has died the day she died.I pity Kralkatorrik, no less.The terrified fool..

Give us back the child!We need her!Whatever nihilism your writers follow in their own mind is not my concern.I come here to get away from our own breaking world.Leave some beauty intact, here in Tyria, at least!PleaseYou have no right to take away the little one.Bring her back, whatever way or form you please!No, not as you please. As she were, in her full kindness and purity.Darling, my baby. OUR baby. Everyone's hero! How could you?In a way, I am relieved.Now I can go play all those other games without guilt, or wondering what will happen to or in Tyria.

 

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You've left me

Aghast, Little One.Agape, winded, unable.

Ahai, tiny blue fighter.Against that monstrosity of fear,GiantAgainst the fear itself.

NO, little one.NO, No, a thousand thousand deaths but not yours, not so.

May the Jade Sea break,May the skies rip,May the legions who died in your name rise,May the hours of my tired eyes and distorted wrist reach your unmakers,May your (mis)writers' hands' bones weep with pain,Their joints swell, and may they limpAs they made meAnd our thousands,Walk away from you,Your gift of hope,Your world.You.

I have cried again, now, and it rattled my ribcage.

Well done, ye craven eaters and drinkers of others' misery. May your five senses fail you before you witness your greatest creation.

You've awakened the Morrígan in me.No mercy, no ruth, for you.

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In Chinese and Korean historical dramas, it is shown how there is such a thing as a 'complaint drum' guarded outside the seat of authority of any given city or town.If this thread was it, I'd have beaten it open.The guards would have dragged me away, and I would have been beaten bloody by the authorities, eyes still burning as I look them all right back in theirs.You may have done what you will, but there will be a way.There always is a way.

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@Lite Ning Strike.5203 said:Ok honest open feedback. I wanted a few days after completing the story to collect my thoughts.

To be honest when I play a game I log in to escape the tragedies of the real world. I want a feel good experience not a depressing ending.

It seems like the writers are very limited (whether due to management restrictions or other) due to the fact that the only way they seem to be able to deliver a story is through killing off characters. This is the type of writing and writers I avoid when I read.

I will say it raises question from me personally as to whether or not I will continue doing the Living Story.i

The maps are beautiful, as always I could and never would complain about the graphics kudos to the art and development teams.

Thanks!!

Guild Wars, the original Guild Wars that is prelude to GW2 had a far darker story than GW2. Now I am very much sick of the 'jolly happy' tone of the GW2's story and I have finally come to appreciate the tone of the story that finally turned darker and deeper.Nothing caught my attention up until the end of this episode and I am beyond grateful to the team for making such a dark twist in the story.Game needs more of such storytelling and deeper things happening.If the story moved us, it means it is good. This definitely moved me and I realized that a tragedy needs to happen to make you appreciate the characters and story more.

Honestly look at WoW and the characters and setting there. Look at the Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, all the good films. All of these films have a lot of suffering, twists, darkness, tragedies, death...but in the end the good always prevails, despite the hopelessness of the situation and despite the strength of evil.This is what I have come to realize with GW2 episode. Kralkatorrik needs a good beating and we HAVE to kill him for the sake of Aurene! It motivated me even more to fight him and want him dead.

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My feedback for all or nothingI feel stupid at the end of story. I believe there are many ways this can end but how it was ended, I could say it's a short cut and it was not fun. I was not feeling emotion sad or anything.. not like the past few seasons and episodes that I feel involved and emotion over it.. but this.. when it ends .. I just felt no emotion. The elimination of a main character for the return of peace.. that's a good short cut but not the satisfaction provide to players.. I'm sorry .. I didn't like it at all.Map, cinematic wise I give it a plus 8/10. It's beautiful breath taking. Artist definitely are skilled. Story wise 2/10 .. it can be better guys.

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@Blacklust.4638 said:Spoiler allert!

! With Gwen you got me back in the game. The moment i have seen her my mind was blown. That was the nicest touch of the whole chapter.

Bugs.In the last story ibstance i got stuck under the dredge rubble cause i was standing there. Add a knockback effect.

Story.Was good a really good one but please do not wait 3 months to show us something. You made your point and we got to feel the sadness. Give us something to mend our souls before 3 months end.

! What is dead is dead.. she will not return. It's an exchange for peace.. elder dragon is now back to sleep bcos there's no longer a threat to him.

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@Tora.7214 said:

@"yohoia.1850" said:I am glad I read about the ending of the story before starting the episode. Now I can avoid getting depressed and heartbroken by skipping the story and wait until episode 6 to do 5 and 6 together (or skip 5 altogether) - when and if there is less tragic and more heroic (positive/hopeful) ending; where we kill the big bad dragon, save the world, the Commander triumphs, Aurene is restored (somehow) and we can move on to new adventures - such as CANTHA (couldn't resist).

I love the map and the setting and the new items/sigils etc. I really wanted to get out of the desert and snowy regions are my favourite. So, apart from the story arc and its ending, I love the episode :)

that until the next main character snuff it, Anet should make a votation poo thread and title it "what main character you want us to kill next? vote here". Seriously your order mentor, Belinda, Eir, Trehearne, Blish, Aurene. Zojja hasnt apeared since she was released from her pod wayyyyy back on HoT so she might be dead for all we know, gosh even SNAFF appeared and the one to recieve him was Tai- omg i just remembered that Taimi its supposed to be terminal... there is another main character on death´s door right there, i just answered my own question

! For me, after killing Aurene, they could kill all other characters. I don't want her back, and I am going to stay away from the game not sure how long due to this lack of writing. I love Game Of Thrones, their story has some meaning. Guild Wars 2, they are now doing some non sense killing. I understand Eir dying even Trehearne, but this death of Aurene it had no sense. They could have killed us all, Braham, Rox, Caithe, the commander. In the stories we are called commander but actually, we are everyone's employee. We do everything that any other character tell us to do. we (commanders) are pawns and slaves in this game. Even the actors have sweet and delicate voices, that can't even act as commanders. We could be just some mercenary hired by taimi, the one who gives most orders.! They also could have written something else besides always make us kill dragons. So they could avoid going always in the same "shocking" ending that doesn't add anything to the story, just make us tired of it.

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In terms of the story, I have no complaints for now. However that may change if the followup falls flat.

The new map is great. I am not a huge fan of how the archaeology heart works (if you are coming from the south you can't start until you go and get a gun). I also don't really like the dredge heart (clearing crystals gives too little, so you end up doing nothing but fishing, and no this is not what people had in mind). Neither of these is a killer. The map is gorgeous, and getting to some places is challenging, but generally not impossible (although there are some places where you can get stuck because you need to bunny back up to a platform, but you can't OOC due to the range/sightlines). There are a few places on the map where you MUST be able to mount, but there are too many enemies around so things get annoying/unnecessarily lethal. The Metas are OK, but kinda bland. One has you playing technician and the other has you capturing a fort only for a second. The gating of the tomb activity with these is not nice, given you can only get the item to open the tombs once a day AND you made the tombs part of map completion.

On that topic, this is the most egregious thing about the map: The Consul's Tomb POI. You get in with RNG (unless doing the story). This could mean you have to run the same character through the meta multiple times on multiple days trying to roll entrance to the POI. I am not happy about the Horde POI, but at least that one is guaranteed if you complete the pair of Meta events, which is a little better but still a problem. Map completion should NOT be gated behind events, but REALLY should not be gated around events that depend on player population. What happens in the future when the map population drops and the meta-event completion rate drops significantly?

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I'm quite disapointed with this living world season....We know killing elder dragons is a long term bad thing to do. The main character and his/her mates decided to stop the dragons with something else than just killing it. (hello Spencer) Braham was told MANY times to not attack Jormag... as he was able to crack Jormag's tooth, the NORNEST thing to do for a norn and the call for arms for those brave warriors. And he gently came back one year later, agree with the fact that killing dragons is not a solution. We have studied ley line and dragon's energies... and here... the only thing that came for solution is... "KILL IT!!!" .... no! just no!If it's for more ley line anomalies that drops those shiny mystic coins, why not... but are we really trying to destroy the world balance? To me, Kralkatorik feels more obvious than the player character. We were able to destroy two elder dragons and one god... it made great disturbances in the world's ley lines energy and we keep on destroying what channeling it and prevent it from explode everything... we are dangerous... more than elder dragons... ARE WE EVIL???

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@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

The episode with the oil (burning) in my opinion contains an error. Even if we follow the short path (lay the river of oil through the fence), then there is not enough oil, or the skill stops working altogether. I am killed half an hour, until just to restart the game. Everything worked the first time.

You can only have like 8 or so oil drops at one time. The oil stops working because you've used the maxiumum amount of oil at one time. You need to spread out the oil further apart so you use less and cover a greater distance. The first two are a lot closer to the fire than the third one, thats why it sort of seems wonky, especially when theres zero explanation as to why you cant drop more oil. Hope this helps.

Yes, I understood this by trial and error)

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Spoiler alert for everyone who have not finished the story yet.

! I love the ending of the episode from a story telling perspective. Honestly, this was the best ending you could have done. In my opinion it would have been a big mistake to let the Commander kill Kralk because he's just too powerful to be killed in such a fight. It would have been too easy. So I love the actual ending. I also love how the fight played out. Here I want to pass a big compliment to whoever was responsible for the music in the last instance and on the map in general. It was gorgeous! And I'm glad that the pose of Aurene after her death was the exact same pose as the one we saw in her visions. To me it said: Commander, you saw the visions. You knew she's going to die no matter what. And you still came to fight Kralkatorrik. Now all that I can wish for is that we don't get a "Aurene came back to life" kind of draconis-ex-machina moment in the next episode. What's dead should stay dead. When she could just come back to life this whole chapter would have been a total waste of everyone's time. But I'm curious what Glint showed Aurene after the trials and what she meant by saying that there are some parts tied to ascension only dragons could understand. We'll see. But long story short: Thank you for this chapter and for this great ending!

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Only kralk is a danger not his minions. I don't see why we still want to kill dragons, just listen to joko argh! We just need to get kralk asleep. About the minions, not a threat, use Inquest technologies: Test bed Zeleph in Arah + Communication array in sandswept = An army of branded under your orders. (Maybe Inquest leader is stupid xD they still haven't figured that! Imagine, branding-proof golem + Riftstalkers fighting along them!)

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LIke the story, map is decent (nasty parts, but overal nice), but I loathe (and that's putting it mildly) the first part of the story. I cannot see where I am supposed to stand, I can only see the lines dividing the circle. Add to that those random foes, and the random AoE things and the constant knockbacks, it makes it a horrible experience, completely ruining the rest.

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@Lite Ning Strike.5203 said:Ok honest open feedback. I wanted a few days after completing the story to collect my thoughts.

To be honest when I play a game I log in to escape the tragedies of the real world. I want a feel good experience not a depressing ending.

It seems like the writers are very limited (whether due to management restrictions or other) due to the fact that the only way they seem to be able to deliver a story is through killing off characters. This is the type of writing and writers I avoid when I read.

I will say it raises question from me personally as to whether or not I will continue doing the Living Story.i

The maps are beautiful, as always I could and never would complain about the graphics kudos to the art and development teams.

Thanks!!

My feelings, exactly.

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The game performance has been always kinda bad during the metas, but this time especially so. I got like 30 fps on the lowest settings.

Other than that i enjoy this map and the story. Having everything be tight and focused felt like a nice contrast to the earlier episodes. Also having the spear weapons felt like a nice addition, and it changed how I normally played the game.

I kinda miss the jumping puzzles and hope to see those return someday.

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Straight up fkin amazing! You guys need to do more of the epic scale underground parts and more verticality this way. Tangled Depths was nice with the multiple layers style but it was really irritating to get around. This one just nailed it. It was refreshing to see the ceiling but still have enough space to fly around on gryphon. The whole map flow is absolutely stellar, from the highs connected with massive bridges to the lows with the various structures, no place feels the same or out of place. The story instances are getting shorter and shorter by each episode but they get way more epic and tight, upping the ante with every iteration.Loved how people speculated about how you guys should kill Taimi to make actual drama and you were like NOPE, we got a way worse idea! Love it. With the humiliating painful walk Modern Warfare style I was speechless!But to give actual criticism:The camera movement when I lost control at the final fight was pretty messed up. If I was moving with my character or camera before it took control, it pointed to really bad places, hiding the actual happenings. The final fight also had some invisible walls around the branded crystals making it a bit punishing if you wanted to go through it with mount. On map there is a bug where the Skritt shouts randomly, no matter where you're at.

In conclusion, cant wait to experience the next episode after such a letdown and loss of hope!

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@Aleaxita.2041 said:I don't have the energy to write more than just a couple comments:

  • Cinematics and sound are stunning. Mechanics are fun, aside from the charging crystals, since mob AI made it hard to get them to stay to be charged.
  • I appreciate the QoL updates.
  • The map's pretty (glad to see a Shiverpeaks map again), but it gives me Lake Doric vibes in playthrough (not a fan of that map, sadly).
  • Killing off beloved characters is not good writing. I shouldn't expect any better, given the track record, but this is ridiculous. I'm so tired of the writing team relying on character death for shock value. It's not going to do much, but if I could even have one word with the writing team, please stop.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree. I had to log off after the end of All or Nothing because I was too upset. That's not why I play GW2. It's difficult enough dealing with this sort of thing (loss, grief, pain) in real life, and I am deeply disappointed in the writer's decision to kill off a beloved character, especially after building us up for so long. I still mourn Tybalt, for gods' sakes. I've given some thought to quitting GW2, which would be a shame. I've played since launch and have put hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars of real money into the Gem store. I have put countless hours into the game over the years and I've never before felt like quitting altogether until now. My son and his friends who also play say they feel the same way. Arenanet, I hope you fix this because I think you're going to lose a lot of players who feel just like me.

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I'd really love it if the last story instance hadn't ended the way it did, by mercilessly dropping me back into the new map, where all the prep and morale lifting for the coming battle were still going. It felt like the Commander had suddenly become a time traveler, returning to the moment before, and seeing all these people who did not know what was coming for them. It was unreal. I kept hoping I'd be able to run into someone from Dragon's Watch and talk to them about it. I even went to Sun's Refuge. They didn't know there either what had happened. So I /cry'd amidst the nest Taimi made for Aurene. It made me feel a little bit better. I have fast loading times between maps. Usually that's great. Now it just gutted me, and not in the good 'ugh this is so sad, it hurts, what an emotional rollercoaster' way, but in the bad 'I'm left here without guts. Now what?' way. The worst part is having to wait until next season, living in a time before the final fight, knowing what is coming for all the NPCs I encounter, before the Commander can grieve with her friends. It really would have been better, and left me with more apprehension for the next episode, if the feeling of grief and despair had lasted a little longer and was allowed to come to a softer landing. Dropping into Sun's Refuge after the fight, for example, with Dragon's Watch etc. and then wallow in the utter hopelessness of the situation for a few minutes of dialogue would definitely have been better.

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