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Official Feedback Thread: LWS4 Episode 5: All or Nothing


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Really great graphics, the gameplay wasn't annoying, rewards were Meh. With no spoilers, I took the ending to be a big middle finger to the players of this game. I will attempt to find a compelling reason to continue playing and not just abandon it for WoW. Sylvanas may be a genocidal maniac but at least she's not a loser.

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I was going to make some comments on the maps and content but in truth, I simply can't be bothered because the ending was so abrupt and disheartening. If I play at all now, it will be to log in for daily then log out. No heart for the game at all. If you plan to rectify the rubbish cliff hanger, you better do it fast before we find something else to spend our time and money on. Not clever guys, not clever at all.

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@Talindra.4958 said:Is Episode 5 the conclusion of LW S4?

I wouldn't be surprised if it was. See now, they can pump everyone up for the next expac, which of course most people will buy (if only to find out if Aurene comes back) Personally. I won't buy it. Or I should say, I won't until I see what they do with this mess.

I really have no desire to play at this point. I am hoping that maybe this will change for me, after some time. They messed this up for a lot of players. There is no fun here anymore. Games are supposed to be fun and relaxing. Killing off what we love, the obscene grind for new shineys. Sure, I get it, they need to make it more of a challenge, to make it special but they went way overboard with that.......

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Thank you for that gem of a map! Beautiful design on the one hand, but unfortunately the meta events are lacking seriously. There is just too less to do.

It would be awesome if you could add more event chains that connect to each other. The map already now feels underpopulated and it is like day 3 after the release.

Please Anet: Dragonstand 2.0 - that map just begs for an epic hour-long battle!

Please!

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All or nothing was mostly fine.The story was fine, even the ending. It's like some people have never had a cliff-hanger ending before. I'm still waiting for Half-Life 2 Episode 2's cliffhanger to continue. At least you know GW2 will actually continue at some point :PI get why some people are a bit down about it, but it's better than the same old 'give a speech, charge in and we win' scenario. That was getting old. The Commander finally has something go wrong. My character in the story has become someone unrelatable. They charge in, win at everything, always come out on top. This kind of loss serves well to bring the character back down a few notches (though, I fully expect the loss to end up being reversed somehow and thus meaning nothing, if I'm reading into that little hint at the very end correctly)

The map is fine too. A nice break from the desert and it has more depth to it than the desert. I have only 2 real problems with it. One has been mentioned to death - the poi locked behind 2 meta events. It's easy to get now and I'm doing it daily for the achieve, but in the future after the novelty wears off this has the potential to be a real pain.
The other is the "A different kind of Shatterer" achievement. Why put an achievement behind an event that needs to be allowed to fail? And then only have 10 of them for a zerg of people to get, without hit sharing (unless someone else can confirm this, I have hit the crystals and not gotten credit. It appeared to only go to the last hit).In my opinion, the achievement should be tied to a pre-event for the main event instead, rather than needing the main to fail first.

All in all, I thought the whole thing was pretty good.

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I found the episode fun, a bit too easy in some parts (mostly those not instanced).

The trials were a bit annoying. It was not easy to see where to stand and were not to stand. More différentiation between the safe and unsafe area would help.

And that ending cutscene after the battle is simply awesome!

Overall, I will give a B+ to the team who designed it.

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I have felt sad before in the game but have never done this before, but after I finished it, I sat here at my desk and cried and sobbed. I emoted my toon to cry and another came and joined me. My thoughts were only of Anet, "fix this, please." cries* Also, please don't take Taimi away either. :P Epic but so sad. I need a happy ending now.

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I'm finally able to continue the story, and... yeah it's impossible to do the achievements. I am on the Crystal Dragon instance, and you can't restart the instance once you enter. Right out the gate, there are 3 achievements in there:

Stubborn: Don't accept help from peopleElectrophobia: Don't get hit by environmental effectsCrystal Circuit Racer: Complete the event within 15 minutes

So, while playing through the story I noticed that the Eletrophobia marker vanished. Not sure why, I don't remember getting hit by anything (not that I would know, since the instance is so cluttered with lights and overlaying effects I can't see anything), but I did what I always do: log out, log in, then try again.

That's when I discovered that the achievement flags don't reset. I also cannot reset the instance in any way. It always continues from where I left off. No matter what. I can no longer attempt these achievements.

I'm sorry, but WHY ARE INSTANCES ALWAYS DESIGNED LIKE THIS?! It ticks me off to no end. On one hand it is demoralizing to constantly be hand-held, and on the other hand it makes actually achieving anything incredibly tedious and annoying. It's like if my father pushed me on my first bike by holding it steady, then he says "you did it" and proceeds to throw away the bike so I never get to actually ride again. I'm going to have to trudge through the entire story just so I can go back again, and see if just maybe the toon I did it on is capable of completing this achievement, and if not I'm going to have to trudge through with every other character until I get to one who can.

Who sat down and thought "You know, Electrophobia should take DAYS to complete"?

EDIT: Oh my goodness I just had to restart the instance because I glitched inside a crystal and couldn't get out.

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@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I'm finally able to continue the story, and... yeah it's impossible to do the achievements. I am on the Crystal Dragon instance, and you can't restart the instance once you enter. Right out the gate, there are 3 achievements in there:

Stubborn: Don't accept help from peopleElectrophobia: Don't get hit by environmental effectsCrystal Circuit Racer: Complete the event within 15 minutes

So, while playing through the story I noticed that the Eletrophobia marker vanished. Not sure why, I don't remember getting hit by anything (not that I would know, since the instance is so cluttered with lights and overlaying effects I can't see anything), but I did what I always do: log out, log in, then try again.

That's when I discovered that the achievement flags don't reset. I also cannot reset the instance in any way. It always continues from where I left off. No matter what. I can no longer attempt these achievements.

I'm sorry, but WHY ARE INSTANCES ALWAYS DESIGNED LIKE THIS?! It ticks me off to no end. On one hand it is demoralizing to constantly be hand-held, and on the other hand it makes actually achieving anything incredibly tedious and annoying. It's like if my father pushed me on my first bike by holding it steady, then he says "you did it" and proceeds to throw away the bike so I never get to actually ride again. I'm going to have to trudge through the entire story just so I can go back again, and see if just maybe the toon I did it on is capable of completing this achievement, and if not I'm going to have to trudge through with every other character until I get to one who can.

Who sat down and thought "You know, Electrophobia should take DAYS to complete"?

EDIT: Oh my goodness I just had to restart the instance because I glitched inside a crystal and couldn't get out.

You can simply finish it first and then do achievements on replay.

For the Electrophobia you mostly have to watch out for the ground effect. I also recommend using ranged weapons to take down the weakpoints to avoid getting stuck or hit by some of the aoes down there.

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So I just finished the episode - some points:

  1. The maps look good, and you can see they've put a lot of work into them, the only issue is that without rewards that matter ( cosmetic or monetary) I don't see myself ever coming back to them apart from doing the story. The metas are fun, but again, nothing worth redoing.
  2. The story is good in the sense that it isn't as bad as the other episodes have been. I enjoyed the ending but I have a bad feeling about it.3.>! I'm pretty sure they're going to bring back Aurene, which invalidates the whole situation. They've done this over and over again - with Eir and other characters. I honestly would really enjoy it if the little dragon Aurene was permanently dead. I have a bad feeling that they're just going to revive her, which would ruin a decent turn in the story for me.>!
  3. Rewards are "meh" at best and non-existent at worst.
  4. New armor for some of the characters - I'm pretty sure it'll be outfits and Gem Store outfits at that. Pretty sad. How cool would it have been for you to have to do some specific character-related quests to be able to get it?
  5. Crystal Glitches break the experience. Nothing to kill the mood of "the epic fight" like getting stuck and having to restart.
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what can i say? map is gorgeous, nice effects everything is fine, few bugs nothing serious but... WHY WHY??? this is some RR martin !"##@ seriously.

! @Neniel.5370 said: The ending left me heartbroken and almost in tears.... This ending... I lost my passion for the game ! I don't know how, but I WANT AURENE BACK!! @Pale One Mistress.5280 said: That ending was NOT OKAY!!! Seriously it makes me want to never play this game ever again! NEVER!!!! @Dragon.4032 said: This makes me not want to log in, or delay the log in. Or even if I log in, not want to play this LS cause of apprehensive reasons.! @Ordin.9047 said: The ending made my 10 yr old daughter cry herself to sleep. Thats not really cool IMO. I c an't say that I'm itching to get back to playing GW2 for a while myself.! @Lothloria.5436 said: ANET I love you, but you guys are killing me! It's starting to look like the Game of Thrones! Every story update I hold my breath to see who survives... already lost my beloved plant Trahearne. Holding my breath for Braham and Canach, BUT if you lay a finger on Logan!!! So help me Dwayna! Darn it ANET! ... why you are so mean... but I still love you...! @"Aleaxita.2041" said: Killing off beloved characters is not good writing. I shouldn't expect any better, given the track record, but this is ridiculous. I'm so tired of the writing team relying on character death for shock value. It's not going to do much, but if I could even have one word with the writing team, please stop.

*spoilers be careful... So much tragedy in one episode, like it's not enough with all the death and despair we had before, i know this "shock value" is a thing for tv series but why here? seriously i have enough with GoT and TwD series which btw abused this, killing characters people cared about more than once per season till everyone just meh don't care anymore, im not a writer or those guys who enjoy watching good guys getting killed but anet seriously just careful with so much death dont be the TwD of videogames, i hope this is the reaction you were looking for and then bring back our little girl later coz like all the people i quoted, there's no much gw2 desire for me after finishing this episode, we already know everything is doomed and the "hope" is death, it wasnt like that before, things were bad ofc but nothing like this.

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I'm refusing to play this LS as I accidentally found out the ending, in another non-spoilers thread.

! Why are you keen to kill off every interesting female, particularly mothers. First we get Glint dead, and we get Aurene. So it looks like Glint dies to progress the Aurene story arch - mother-daughter bond. Then we get Eir dead to progress the Braham character development. Now Aurene dies after we get LS episodes designed to bond us to her, like a father-daughter bond or a mother-daughter bond, plus the Caithe-Aurene adopted mother-daughter bond. This is reading like a particular plot trope: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge

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Hi @"Gaile Gray.6029" ,

My first question resides in what you are looking for, "High-level feedback". I went through most of the responses on the first 4 pages (assuming there will be more later) and some are pure complaints without solutions, bugs (doubtfully relevant to the purpose) and some are story and zone related feedback, but I can say I'm not sure what you are looking for to make the conversation as productive as possible, and if I may could you update your first post with what that is so we can all join in on the discussion.

Please,Thanks and Cheers

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Is there no institutional history there? Did we forget about all of Heart of Thorns? Why is the meta blocking exploration and story progress?I just finished Thunderhead Keep, did a bit of story, then got guided to ...Thunderhead Keep, which is now close and likely will be for another hour.Logged out. I can find other games to respect my time.

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So I just got done with the story, and... I didn't like it. Mostly because storytelling convention has taught me that I'm going to be dealing with either one of three things, and I don't like any of them.

! I'm going to call this first one the Batman Wedding issue. For anyone not in the know, Batman's wedding to Catwoman was going to be the finale of Tom King's 50 issue run... until it got spoiled and DC's brilliant response was "No, it didn't get spoiled! It's secretly supposed to be a 100 issue run!" Which, while sounding quite juvenile, presents a very serious problem for the comic: we're sick of hearing about the wedding. Now, instead of getting a nice wrapup to the Wayne/Kyle wedding, we're going to be strung along for another 50 issues. We have plot fatigue. We want to go somewhere else.
!Aurene's death, in a sense, represents the failure for Batman and Catwoman getting married. Yes, we've all become invested in this outcome since HoT. Killing her off is just frustrating, because now we're going to have to spend another several years mucking about to come up with yet ANOTHER solution. Half of the playerbase is tired of the whole Elder Dragon storyline. We don't want to spend the next several years just coming up with ways to slowly defeat the dragons. Primordus should've been dead from Balthazar, Kralkatorrik should've been dead from this latest episode, and the rest of the pre-expansion storyline should've been dedicated to a new threat or the other dragons.

Break for option two!

!There's an alternate method to handling Aurenes Death: it gets unceremoniously undone just in time to wrap up the story. This is because the sunken costs in her are real, and I think that the writers at Arenanet are a bit smarter than the ones at DC. So, her death gets undone somehow, and then we're left wondering why we were strung along in the first place.

Break for option three.

!For the final option, I'm going to reference comic books again. In their Secret Wars series, the cosmic cube was used to retroactively rewrite Captain America so that he was always a secret agent of Hydra, which then leads to him taking over as a brutal dictator. Because apparently everyone at marvel are conspiracy nuts also suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome. The way that the resolved this universe ruining issue is by having some no-name character come out of nowhere and use his very stupid power to literally vomit up a corner of the cosmic cube, which then makes and idealized exact duplicate of Cap to fight off the bad one.!In so many words, it is a butt-pull. Maybe Caithe is now the magical inheritor of Glint's Legacy and everything just works out, or we somehow channel Aurenes spirit from the mists to unlock unforseeen powers we've never had before. Maybe Rhytlock does it. Whatever. No matter what happens, it'll be cheesy and unfulfilling, because it will utterly disrespect the entire story from Heart of Thorns onward.

That is where we are left off. No matter what happens, I'll be disappointed. Either endless meandering, a cheesy trope, or something pulled out of your butt, when it eventually comes in 6 months I'll just be disappointed.

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I have read other feedbacks and lot of people are really sad losing a main character... I find it good, it brings bakc the fact that this game makes us feel lot of things, like a movie, a book or else! This simple and invisible thing is great! :)I find out, and everyone doesn't agree i think, that main character CAN DIE is good... the player character is, by essence, invulnerable, "unkillable". And this game take place in the "good one's boots that will restore the balance in the force". That's enough god-mode deus exmachina and happing-ending-for-sure for this character. We KNOW nothing can happen to this one, even death can't stop us!So, having "killable" mates, makes them more fragile, more living, i think. I have seen too much of these stories where every danger bring to main character takes no feeling, no tension, because I KNEW the script makes them invulnerable, because they are main characters and they have to be at the end of the story.Here, i get more and more thinking (and it's a good thing too, in my opinion) about what can happen to Taimi. And this living world episode remind me that.. she CAN die, really! She's one of my favorite character, but i won't feel bad whatever happen to her, that's what i find really good : all and nothing can happen! :)

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! My Character wanted to hug Taimi at the end. Poor wee one in pain now both emotionally and Physically. Never cried in any game until now. Seeing glint's body and Aurene cuddled up by her was heartbreaking.! I love the new map. I think the game missed Thunderhead keep and you did an amazing job especially in the 'keep' itself. I did wonder where the ice Imps had gone because in the first game there was a ton to get past to get to Marhan's Grotto (which wasn't even a point of interest sadly). I liked the semi jumping type puzzle to get one of the mastery points and you are met with an amazing view I screened a few times and left my character there to log in and see it again.! For the story all was well until the bit with the oil, took a bit to work out you had a limited amount of oil and where to aim for over the fence, but we got there. I like having puzzles in a game and having to think outside the box. However we thought it was a bug to start. I think we need more puzzles, not just hitting and killing.! The ending blew us away twice as my friend had to re log because he got stuck in the rocks when we see the tank and have to jump over the mount. I also managed to find some rocks to get stuck in because I didn't see my new skill and tried to move with my griffin. Then we got to the end cut scene and then didn't realize for a second we could move because it still looked like the cut scene, then you can hear Taimi and Aurene on the crystal dead. :'( :'( :'(! I think we need something to help us if we get stuck in the graphics as it's not the first time some like that happened but all in all a great episode , and I know the commander will come though, remember glint spoke to aurene in private and she 'ate' joko and gained his power. I don't think she's dead now just different. :3

Oh btw I love the new mastery...

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other than the story,.... I have to give credit to those who made the new map. I have had a lot of fun exploring it.. playing the events.. and all. its beautiful map.. altho I do have a lot of disconnections and crashes .. the music bring back all the memories of gw1. its a beautiful place.. thank you for this.

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@Rauderi.8706 said:Is there no institutional history there? Did we forget about all of Heart of Thorns? Why is the meta blocking exploration and story progress?I just finished Thunderhead Keep, did a bit of story, then got guided to ...Thunderhead Keep, which is now close and likely will be for another hour.Logged out. I can find other games to respect my time.

You can walk up there through the outside, you don't HAVE to go through the door... And the only PoI that was gated behind something is also reachable from the outside now.

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The map is lovely, the story is good to play, the difficulty level seems about right, as does the time investment. BUT, I have to say that the end of the story line in this chapter was truly upsetting and depressing. Usually, I can separate the IG experience from the IRL fairly easily. This one affected me strongly...that may be because, partially I, and many of us, use the game to escape from RL, especially in light of the terrible state of the world today. The ending of this chapter just seemed to trigger and mirror many of the feelings of and the events happening IRL these days. That's not what I, and from the comments in the various threads a lot of us, want from our IG experience. I hope that the writers and devs get that message loud and clear and figure out a way to use all the magic in the IG world to address the issue. Thanks.

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I just have a question, why call it "All or Nothing" when you already gave us nothing? I disagree with the writing, it was poor at best...You keep killing off main characters and if the story is evolving then...what sense is that? This game is getting more and more adult every episode or release...and it's getting harder to get into the game and enjoy it when you spend effort only to have it taken away (example: why do all that crap for the dragon when your gonna kill it?). I sense the end of the game like guild wars 1...You people did the same thing there, built it up...then changed a bunch of stuff because of bad programming and abandoned the entire game! Guild Wars 2...has done the same thing...and it's nothing yet again...same idea kill off the main people...Seems like a normal day of guild wars... a ton of Doom and Gloom...You've left out way too much in the story, and the way you people tell stories...well it's bad, lore and history you've told only a small part. And when people don't understand...."SHOW" people as if they don't "Know" and then they'll get what they're expose to do. Instead you seem to "Tell" them without any explanation of what they're expose to do in game...Once they finish their story it should be on them to learn more or do more. But during missions there's Many places in the game that need help to forward young and old minds to complete the task at hand. I think people sometimes forget what ages play this game and the "responsibility" that goes with that. While I think quite a bit of this game is "Adult", the entire game was marketed for young audiences...When you teach death is nothing...it comes back to reality...it does mean something. Good job on the cliffhanger, but not sure if I like how we got here...hopefully it won't be another 3 months or so for next...or is this it? you done Anet? Cause it sure ended like it...

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Ok, I just don't get it.

! We're told that Aurene is supposed to replace Kralkatorrik as a being which shares magic, then we're rushed into fighting with it, and then Aurene gets killed. So what now? Do we kill the dragon and live in the post-apocalyptic, reality-shattered, magic-ravaged Tyria and realise that we're just some kind of figments of the Mists like every other piece of reality inside of them? Do we build devices which artificially control the flow of magic? Do we go to the good, 'ol fashioned bloodstones to store magic? Do we make peace with the dragon? I just feel so frustrated and over it because the entire story has been... well... it doesn't seem like we can do anything about the dragons now. It's as if the story up to now has been crossed out. Ugh.

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I love how main characters can die in the story. It makes the story much more realistic than just killing off characters that are on the wrong side,or not liked by the players would make the deaths wayyy too predictable and boring. If you dont know who will die it makes the death much more impactful...and painful. Now I'm afraid of who will die next... but Im curious as well >3 I love the darkness this episode has. After all this is a war with a powerful Elder Dragon of course there will be casaulties and depressing tones XD

Things I love in the 5th episode:

  • New map. It is perfect for the gryphon mount. The visuals are great as always.
  • Kalkatorric. I was kind of distracted during the fight....busy staring at his amazing head. I want him as my pet or my mount. He is hypnotizing <3 Even if you die its worth to just look at him when he blasts you with thunder. I want to pet him badly <3
  • Its ovious you love Taimi. So far she lost some really close friends (again) and has a "dont worry we will torture you even more" cloud hanging above her head. She just cant catch a break poor thing.
  • Visuals and CInematics.
  • Taimi in general. Her voice acting and reactions are spot on as always.
  • *My ele Commander wasnt as overpowered as they sometimes are (like in the Balthazar ending war. I stopped counting the deaths after reaching the number 35.) The fight difficulty was just about right here.

Cons:*No epilouge. When we have this kind of intense ending of an episode,please let us have an epilogue. They are needed so the player can catch up with what has happened, cool down after the events and have a small chat with the group to see what others in the group think. Basically a cool-down moment. Right now it looks like the Commander bailed from the battle place before anyone had a chance to talk to them(unless this was intended as such...if it was then heck yea.Time for the Commander to break down for once >:D) . Anyway,short epilouges are great way to just sit for a few seconds with the group and cool down before you go back to the non-story-mode. Being thrown back as soon the end came was... kind of weird. there was a lot of depressed characters standing around the green story-plot-star when I was thrown back, just standing still...while those who didn't play the story (yet) were playing around one. Almost...traumatic XD

*A little too short. Considering the time it was released (right after New Year and Christmas) I can understand why, even devs and voice actors need a break so the shortness isn't ruining anything.

*Where is Kasmeer and Marjory? Did Kalk eat them for dinner off-screen? If they come back next episode, they will have pretty rude awakening lol...

  • Blishes supposed-to-be birthday wont happen now huh XD Dont think teams moral is the best right now.

*commaner isnt tortured enough...they never break down over anything. Really hope for some episodes where Commander has some personal issues related to the events that has already happened.... something that would make them ask for some help and show a little bit of weakness. Or have total mental breakdown and sink deep,deep into the dephts of despair and self destruction >3

Overall: 9/10

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