Why do skilled roamers avoid fighting other skilled roamers?

[EremiteAngel.9765]

The roaming community is small and for veteran roamers, many of the above average roaming players and guilds are pretty much well known across all the servers.One trend I've been seeing though, while playing and watching live streams on twitch, is that skilled roamers avoid fighting each other a lot.They run around the map, bump into each other, recognize each other from guild tag, looks etc. and move pass or detour without fighting.Then when they encounter a pug who might just be a zergling or a less skilled roamer, they jump on them and stomp them into the ground and thump their chest howling in victory.

The vibe I get from skilled roamers who avoid fighting each other is like "Hey I know you're good and you know I'm good. So lets not risk fighting each other."Its like...why?!Isn't it more exciting to fight another skilled roamer than to stomp on a pug?

[Shadow Order.7258]

Most "skilled" roamers just exploit cheese for easy wins. Stomping pugs makes it even easier. I've always considered them having ego issues and need to "win" at something in life.

[Shining One.1635]

I'd imagine at least some of them don't want to risk getting an embarrassing loss in a live stream.

[Solori.6025]

@Shining One.1635 said:I'd imagine at least some of them don't want to risk getting an embarrassing loss in a live stream.

^ I was thinking the same.Nobody want's that montage appearance XD

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Actually now that I think about it, it reminds me of the same pattern for skilled guilds.They bandwagon and crush pug zergs.Like...what is so fun about steamrolling others?Guilds should also really stop bandwagoning and instead spread out and challenge each other instead.

[Shadow Order.7258]

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Actually now that I think about it, it reminds me of the same pattern for skilled guilds.They bandwagon and crush pug zergs.Like...what is so fun about steamrolling others?Guilds should also really stop bandwagoning and instead spread out and challenge each other instead.

You mean like how the gvg scence all migrated to the same server and then began thumping their chest as the "fight" server. People want easy wins and this game caters to them.

[Artaz.3819]

First, you are mistaking "looking for an easier target" for courtesy and respect for one another. You are also probably mistaking pass-on-by with yes, I see that guy "standing by" buddy there that will jump in immediately so time to move on. Or the more likely 2nd scenario is only one of the two actually wants to duel.

That being said, WvW titles need to be removed from enemy players if you wanted this to stop. You see the same roamers out there time and again all week long.

[LetoII.3782]

Sometimes you want Filet MignonSometimes you wana McRib

The skilled guilds got skilled by fighting each other, same for players

[Israel.7056]

Well for one thing that would get pretty boring after a while don't you think? Do you really want to sit around and fight the exact same people every single night forever?

The only way anyone ever gets good is by fighting people who are better than they are and losing until they start winning. You should thank the people who are beating you without them you could never improve yourself. Unfortunately most humans are short sighted and they don't see how a loss today turns into a win tomorrow so they get mad and say things like "why don't you just go fight each other and leave me alone???"

[RedShark.9548]

Most ppl recognize and ignore are those were i know that they will jump me with more than one player when i attack just one of them, getting blueprints thrown on me for "revenge" hello no

[Sylosi.6503]

Because most WvW players who still play WvW on a frequent basis are basically PvE players at heart who use WvW as a substitute for a social life, rather than looking for good (challenging) PvP. No actual PvP player would put up with the pitiful quality of "PvP" in WvW where the majority of fights are not close in the slightest. (let's not even go into how infrequent fights are on top of that...)

I remember last time I watched Helseth stream (long ago), a bit after they let you queue for PvP from WvW, he went into WvW duelled a warrior, beat him, said "this is stupid, I can just kite him" and went back to PvP, that is the response of an actual PvP player to the "PvP" of WvW.

[kash.9213]

You can feel through the screen when someone is taking a fight personally or if you're going to be the target of all their angst for the night. I also get the sense that "roamers" aren't so much roaming as they are looking for quasi duels that they can bail out of, if they were roaming then their builds would be a little more encompassing. WvW isn't open world, everyone is going to run into the same people all night if they're all reading the maps roughly the same way and some people might get tired of that earlier than others.

Also, sometimes your going to run into that player or group who are just really good and they know you're trying to figure them out and they'll put you on their mental radar and you might not want to bang your head against that wall on that night.

[Shroud.2307]

I can't speak for those who do this, and I'm not necessarily putting myself in the "skilled" category but, I often avoid people I respect.

When I enjoy fighting someone who was clearly talented, I may avoid them later when I see them fighting other players. Not because I'm "afraid" of them, but because I respect their skill and understand what roaming is like. I don't want to ruin their 1v1/1vX and will instead wait until the fight is finished or move along. It's a way to show that I understand they're good, or better than me, and that if I'm going to fight them I wish to fight them at their strongest. A little like Goku from Dragon Ball!

Another reason I may avoid someone is because I know they're the type to be in a group/squad and have friends that will often support them if they're beginning to lose. In this case, I wouldn't say most of these players are skilled but, some of them honestly are. They're just playing to their advantage which really isn't anything to be frowned upon. If I had a guild I'd probably do it too.

I don't know the reasons the streamers you speak of may avoid other skilled players, you could be right you could be wrong. The issue a lot of people have is projecting and assuming and applying their standards to others like it's common knowledge. We're all guilty of doing this sometimes. For example, maybe someone /waves at you a few times and it's perceived as trolling because you lost a fight against them earlier. Or like a lot of people say, "they just want to win to boost their ego." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's perspective. Unless you're speaking to them directly or watching them on a stream, you can only make so many conclusions from their character's body language.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Actually now that I think about it, it reminds me of the same pattern for skilled guilds.They bandwagon and crush pug zergs.Like...what is so fun about steamrolling others?Guilds should also really stop bandwagoning and instead spread out and challenge each other instead.

Because in the end, people want to win, regardless of how it's done.

It's much easier to talk, and doctor screenshots that show you have 12 in squad (but 67 green dots following you-- doesn't count obviously)

I mean everyone likes to make fun of make fun of tower hugging and choke camping, but you visit a tower and look up and realize, this is the norm.

[X T D.6458]

After awhile cheese all starts to taste the same :cry:

[Israel.7056]

@"Sylosi.6503" said:Because most WvW players who still play WvW on a frequent basis are basically PvE players at heart who use WvW as a substitute for a social life, rather than looking for good (challenging) PvP. No actual PvP player would put up with the pitiful quality of "PvP" in WvW where the majority of fights are not close in the slightest. (let's not even go into how infrequent fights are or how often guilds, zergs, roamers, avoid fights...)

I remember last time I watched Helseth stream (long ago), a bit after they let you queue for PvP from WvW, he went into WvW duelled a warrior, beat him, said "this is stupid, I can just kite him" and went back to PvP, that is the response of an actual PvP player to the "PvP" of WvW.

You gotta have the boredom tolerance of a god to have fun in PvP after a few thousand games though let me tell you. You get to a certain point and it's literally the same 15-20 guys in every single game.

[Kovu.7560]

I click my utilities. Fear me!(Seriously though, this game has too many fucking buttons to push and keying something like t/g/h just doesn't feel comfortable to me.)

~ Kovu

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I can't speak for those who do this, and I'm not necessarily putting myself in the "skilled" category but, I often avoid people I respect.

When I enjoy fighting someone who was clearly talented, I may avoid them later when I see them fighting other players. Not because I'm "afraid" of them, but because I respect their skill and understand what roaming is like. I don't want to ruin their 1v1/1vX and will instead wait until the fight is finished or move along. It's a way to show that I understand they're good, or better than me, and that if I'm going to fight them I wish to fight them at their strongest. A little like Goku from Dragon Ball!

Another reason I may avoid someone is because I know they're the type to be in a group/squad and have friends that will often support them if they're beginning to lose. In this case, I wouldn't say most of these players are skilled but, some of them honestly are. They're just playing to their advantage which really isn't anything to be frowned upon. If I had a guild I'd probably do it too.

I don't know the reasons the streamers you speak of may avoid other skilled players, you could be right you could be wrong. The issue a lot of people have is projecting and assuming and applying their standards to others like it's common knowledge. We're all guilty of doing this sometimes. For example, maybe someone /waves at you a few times and it's perceived as trolling because you lost a fight against them earlier. Or like a lot of people say, "they just want to win to boost their ego." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's perspective. Unless you're speaking to them directly or watching them on a stream, you can only make so many conclusions from their character's body language.

You make good points though slightly not applicable to some of the streamers I've seen.

The weirdest one I've seen was a streamer who complained after roaming for a couple of hours during reset that he only had 1 good fight the entire time.

But in that time, I've seen him run past two other skilled enemy roamers on separate occasions without engaging when they were both alone.

Then he jumps on pugs he encounter and 1 shots them before complaining that the quality of roamers have dropped.

Like what!?

[Jora.5471]

I am not skilled, but I am a roamer.

There is no point in fighting roamers. Killing one roamer that takes forever to kill is a equivalent of killing one zergling that dies in one milisecond. And then, when you finally defeat the roamer, you lose all your participation.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I can't speak for those who do this, and I'm not necessarily putting myself in the "skilled" category but, I often avoid people I respect.

When I enjoy fighting someone who was clearly talented, I may avoid them later when I see them fighting other players. Not because I'm "afraid" of them, but because I respect their skill and understand what roaming is like. I don't want to ruin their 1v1/1vX and will instead wait until the fight is finished or move along. It's a way to show that I understand they're good, or better than me, and that if I'm going to fight them I wish to fight them at their strongest. A little like Goku from Dragon Ball!

Another reason I may avoid someone is because I know they're the type to be in a group/squad and have friends that will often support them if they're beginning to lose. In this case, I wouldn't say most of these players are skilled but, some of them honestly are. They're just playing to their advantage which really isn't anything to be frowned upon. If I had a guild I'd probably do it too.

I don't know the reasons the streamers you speak of may avoid other skilled players, you could be right you could be wrong. The issue a lot of people have is projecting and assuming and applying their standards to others like it's common knowledge. We're all guilty of doing this sometimes. For example, maybe someone /waves at you a few times and it's perceived as trolling because you lost a fight against them earlier. Or like a lot of people say, "they just want to win to boost their ego." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's perspective. Unless you're speaking to them directly or watching them on a stream, you can only make so many conclusions from their character's body language.

Oh and there was also this veteran thief streamer who goes around stomping pugs and jumps on a pug-looking weaver thinking he was a free kill.

But turns out the weaver was very skilled and almost counter killed the thief streamer. The thief streamer proceeded to disengage and ran before saying things like 'oh I can't kill that weaver but he also can't kill me'.

Like what!? Shouldn't you go back in and try to win? :s

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Shining One.1635 said:I'd imagine at least some of them don't want to risk getting an embarrassing loss in a live stream.

I was thinking though, from the viewers' point of view, do they actually enjoy watching a skilled roamer stream content of him stomping pugs XDPersonally I would have rather seen the streamer take on tough opponents, even if it ends up as a loss.Its like wouldn't we have more respect for such a streamer/roamer?

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@"Artaz.3819" said:First, you are mistaking "looking for an easier target" for courtesy and respect for one another. You are also probably mistaking pass-on-by with yes, I see that guy "standing by" buddy there that will jump in immediately so time to move on. Or the more likely 2nd scenario is only one of the two actually wants to duel.

That being said, WvW titles need to be removed from enemy players if you wanted this to stop. You see the same roamers out there time and again all week long.

But if we have all these courtesy and respect between skilled roamers, given such a small community, soon there will be even fewer satisfying encounters to be had.For myself when I roam, I can run around for a long while without meeting anyone decent.When I do meet someone I know is decent, I get hyper-excited and rush to fight him (only to find myself getting stomped later).Its like roamers complain there aren't many good fights to be had but they worsen the problems themselves by avoiding fights with other familiar skilled roamers :/

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I can't speak for those who do this, and I'm not necessarily putting myself in the "skilled" category but, I often avoid people I respect.

When I enjoy fighting someone who was clearly talented, I may avoid them later when I see them fighting other players. Not because I'm "afraid" of them, but because I respect their skill and understand what roaming is like. I don't want to ruin their 1v1/1vX and will instead wait until the fight is finished or move along. It's a way to show that I understand they're good, or better than me, and that if I'm going to fight them I wish to fight them at their strongest. A little like Goku from Dragon Ball!

Another reason I may avoid someone is because I know they're the type to be in a group/squad and have friends that will often support them if they're beginning to lose. In this case, I wouldn't say most of these players are skilled but, some of them honestly are. They're just playing to their advantage which really isn't anything to be frowned upon. If I had a guild I'd probably do it too.

I don't know the reasons the streamers you speak of may avoid other skilled players, you could be right you could be wrong. The issue a lot of people have is projecting and assuming and applying their standards to others like it's common knowledge. We're all guilty of doing this sometimes. For example, maybe someone /waves at you a few times and it's perceived as trolling because you lost a fight against them earlier. Or like a lot of people say, "they just want to win to boost their ego." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's perspective. Unless you're speaking to them directly or watching them on a stream, you can only make so many conclusions from their character's body language.

Well said and basically sums it up for me. Perhaps it's just something from my perspective, but if I have some good fights with somebody and chat with them and exchange some nice words, there's definitely a level of respect I gain for them. I will happily 1v1 them if we both decide to, but it's also nice to see others you respect and just exchange jump spam with them rather than fighting. Perhaps it is a bit of a contradiction because ultimately I am roaming for fights, but I still get enjoyment out of coming across people I know and just taking it easy with them, maybe chatting with them a bit or watching fights from afar with them. It's nice to just chill at times.

I will say that I sometimes avoid certain 1v1s against super annoying builds that are zero fun to fight. I do like a challenge, but I'm not gonna knowingly 1v1 against a permastealth DE who is gonna run away if they have any chance of losing. Or any gank build that, again, will burst me and kill me or start losing and run away.

Sometimes it depends on my mood too. I don't consider myself a skilled player, but maybe I am tired of constantly dying and walking back from spawn, and don't want to have to again.

A lot of people like to assume roamers have ego issues, but it's just as easy for me to say the same thing about people who chase me 1v3+ and blow all their cooldowns just for the kill, or zergs who do the same thing, without actually knowing what they are experiencing behind their screen. It is easy to assume things about others when they are programmed to be your enemy and communication is restricted unless you put in the effort. I see it all the time with people talking kitten and making all sorts of assumptions about commanders, skilled roaming/havoc guilds, or even generalizing entire servers and conveniently concocting up their own ego-driven idea of what they are thinking, feeling, or doing. I'm not saying I'm perfect either, but assumptions are easy to make, especially when they feed the ego.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Most fresh out of the box newbies make better roamers than "seasoned vets". A fresh out of the box will atleast hit a few players in his/her solo travels before learning the lesson you can't just go around hitting everyone and expect to live. Whereas a seasoned vet will either run past the fair 1v1 because...they don't feel like fighting, or bait you into his/her waiting Conga line because...you need practice to get better...

[Xterra.6172]

@Shadow Order.7258 said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Actually now that I think about it, it reminds me of the same pattern for skilled guilds.They bandwagon and crush pug zergs.Like...what is so fun about steamrolling others?Guilds should also really stop bandwagoning and instead spread out and challenge each other instead.

You mean like how the gvg scence all migrated to the same server and then began thumping their chest as the "fight" server. People want easy wins and this game caters to them.

When did this happen?