Do you enjoy fighting Mesmers? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do you enjoy fighting Mesmers?

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  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    On top of that, on dodge they get regen, vigor reflect on evade and the ability to cast while dodging.... lol.

    @ROMANG.1903 said:
    They are one of the main reasons I'm staying away from PvP. And in others modes, I hate how many utility tools they have compared to others classes. They can blink a huge distance away with a short cooldown, stealth or perma buff their entire group, teleport 25 people across a great distance, and have a ton of cleanse and defensive cooldowns on top of that. And while building like this does reduce your DPS capabilities, it's not nearly as punishing for mesmers as it is for others classes. And both of the elite specs took what was worst about them and added another ton of it...

    The main problem though is the 3 permanent illusions (but what am I saying, with the delay it's actually 5 or 6...) coupled with the messy targetting system. Rework the targetting system, make a real action camera instead of something that looks like it was stopped mid development, and nerf the utility of mesmers (nerfing their healing or damage won't change anything). Don't just nerf a few niche talents, nerf the core mechanics of the class. Then adapt the talents if the mesmer becomes lackluster in these niches.

    @ROMANG.1903 said:
    They are one of the main reasons I'm staying away from PvP. And in others modes, I hate how many utility tools they have compared to others classes. They can blink a huge distance away with a short cooldown, stealth or perma buff their entire group, teleport 25 people across a great distance, and have a ton of cleanse and defensive cooldowns on top of that. And while building like this does reduce your DPS capabilities, it's not nearly as punishing for mesmers as it is for others classes. And both of the elite specs took what was worst about them and added another ton of it...

    The main problem though is the 3 permanent illusions (but what am I saying, with the delay it's actually 5 or 6...) coupled with the messy targetting system. Rework the targetting system, make a real action camera instead of something that looks like it was stopped mid development, and nerf the utility of mesmers (nerfing their healing or damage won't change anything). Don't just nerf a few niche talents, nerf the core mechanics of the class. Then adapt the talents if the mesmer becomes lackluster in these niches.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    I realize I actually didn’t mind power mirage so much. The 1 shot is very annoying but at least if u connect u can kill them cos they r so squish. Condi mirage... is just stupid. The amount of survival they have with the massive condi dps. Their animations are also indistinguishable so it’s hard to dodge. And u have to find the [real] Mesmer from all the clones before u even see the animation. Most of the time I don’t even look for it any more. I just guess that oh they r going to axe3 n likely then use axe of sym. Just going to dodge when they detergent or stealth . If I can’t kill one fast enough I just leave.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    I really started to dislike fighting mesmer after Anet for revamped them. The amount of clones on the screen at once is just too much and overwhelming. Before the revamp I don't recall ever seeing more than 3. Now its not uncommon to see 6++.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019
    No

    Theres obvious reasons why i hate fighting mesmers.
    Clones that keep reapearing, like is that its only mechanic in 2 specializations and a core? Creating clones endlessly? If that wasnt a visual cluster mess they also have multiple detargeting skills along with the clones makes retargeting a nightmare.

    But thats not all, this one is the one that pisses me off the most. Confusion. There is no internal cool down on it so if you ever want to attack the mesmer u just end up killing your self in the processes. This may not be a problem for the heavy hitters in this game like warrior holo necro ranger classes, but for the quick casting light low health classes like fa ele, thf, gaurd, 12+ stack of confusion will drop us in 2 seconds or less.

    Im pretty sure in gw1 mesmer had more then 1 mechanic. Like it could specialize in hp negativity or mp negativity, cc master, or be duff master and more
    But here its juat clones clone clone come one come all spam then clones till enemy is a dead man.
    Heres a list of former gw1 mesmer builds vs the clonage that is now.
    Build:Me/A JQ Wastrel's Capper
    Build:Me/A Wastrel's Mesmer
    Build:Me/any Arenas Arcane Languor
    Build:Me/any FA Migraine's Demise
    Build:Me/any FA Psychic Chaos
    Build:Me/any FA Shutdown
    Build:Me/any GvG Air of Disenchantment
    Build:Me/any GvG June Domination Mesmer
    Build:Me/any HA Panic Mesmer
    Build:Me/any HA Psychic Distraction Mesmer
    Build:Me/any November Energy Surge
    Build:Me/any November Power Block
    Build:Me/any Power Block Mesmer
    Build:Me/any RA ESurge
    Build:Me/any RA Migraine Mesmer
    Build:Me/any RA Power Block
    Build:Me/any RA Psychic Distractor
    Build:Me/any Tease Mesmer November Flux
    Build:Me/E FA GoR Shutdown
    Build:Me/E JQ GoR Chaos Storm
    Build:Me/N FA May Flux
    Build:Me/Rt GvG E-Surge Spike Mesmer
    Build:Me/Rt GvG Non-Wastrel's Psychic Instability

  • Mirage - No

    Yes to any Mesmer or Mesmer Build, so long as its not Condimesmer. Reason- its way too safe. A guildie said he managed to chain stealth, blocks, iframes, and distortion in such a manner as to become invulnerable for around 20 seconds while dishing out decent condition damage, ignoring that he was also using crowd control abilities/tools. Thats just wrong.

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019
    Mirage - No

    Too many clones they may as well be in stealth while fighting, uncounterable evades for days, burst while evade, and if things don't go their way they run away blinking.
    some of the cheese needs to go.
    Though I do like being moa'd. wanna get moa'd enough I can learn the skills, and be meta moa.

  • No

    I onften avoid fighting mesmer in SPvPbecause ir just takes way to long... While attacking you‘ll read 70% of the time things like evaded, invuln or nothing since they went stealth again or got out of your target. Thank god they‘re kinda squishy and the 30% of the time you hit them is often enough to kill them.

    Condis are also a problem, even if you avoid the big skills you‘ll get alot of them on you, just from the clones or smaller skills you can‘t afford to evade. The clones are just annoying overall, like there are 3-6 clones all the time while you try to find the real mesmer just to loose him again when he axe 3‘s you....

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019
    No

    Any class that can attack and defend at the same time for over 10 seconds is automatically a scrub pandering class that is bad for the game regardless of anything else it does.

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I accept that majority don't, and if that leads to nuking the class to appease at least the vocal mass on here then so be it, even if in terms of gameplay there's a lot of negative hyperbole and misguided l2p issues.

    The class doesn't need to be nuked. It needs to be redesigned ( again lmao ) so that it actually has viable interactive counterplay. Currently if you die on a Mesmer, it's not because player who killed you was good. It's because you made a mistake.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    I would much prefer Mesmer to be deleted from the game. Such a nonsense it is to play against.

  • Usually i need to adjust build when i see 2 or more condi opponents (mesmer or necros) in enemy, team than it is easy fight, otherwise it is hard.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Any class that can attack and defend at the same time for over 10 seconds is automatically a scrub pandering class regardless of anything else it does.

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I accept that majority don't, and if that leads to nuking the class to appease at least the vocal mass on here then so be it, even if in terms of gameplay there's a lot of negative hyperbole and misguided l2p issues.

    The class doesn't need to be nuked. It needs to be redesigned ( again lmao ) so that it actually has viable interactive counterplay. Currently if you die on a Mesmer, it's not because player who killed you was good. It's because you made a mistake.

    I doubt the core function of things like clones or mirage cloak will change. Not like the phantasm rework. In my mind the only potential functionality change is removing base ability to dodge when cced in MC.

    What could be possible is improvements to the targeting system for ease and accessibility to help people who struggle with retargeting quickly. Picking out the real mesmer after stealth or detarget visually should be effortless for good players anyway, but maybe the mechanics of tab or cursor select could be somehow refined further.

    Never dodge while dazed (EM handicap) | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Any class that can attack and defend at the same time for over 10 seconds is automatically a scrub pandering class regardless of anything else it does.

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I accept that majority don't, and if that leads to nuking the class to appease at least the vocal mass on here then so be it, even if in terms of gameplay there's a lot of negative hyperbole and misguided l2p issues.

    The class doesn't need to be nuked. It needs to be redesigned ( again lmao ) so that it actually has viable interactive counterplay. Currently if you die on a Mesmer, it's not because player who killed you was good. It's because you made a mistake.

    I doubt the core function of things like clones or mirage cloak will change. Not like the phantasm rework. In my mind the only potential functionality change is removing base ability to dodge when cced in MC.

    What could be possible is improvements to the targeting system for ease and accessibility to help people who struggle with retargeting quickly. Picking out the real mesmer after stealth or detarget visually should be effortless for good players anyway, but maybe the mechanics of tab or cursor select could be somehow refined further.

    I can see them effortlessly, but tab target when there are 8 enemy models on my screen has been the death of me in the past, and I've never been one for clicking on a model to target it. I don't mind that they drop target, but the fact that they so easily drop target, and can at-will change your target to one of their clones, is frustrating.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019
    Yes

    @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Any class that can attack and defend at the same time for over 10 seconds is automatically a scrub pandering class regardless of anything else it does.

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I accept that majority don't, and if that leads to nuking the class to appease at least the vocal mass on here then so be it, even if in terms of gameplay there's a lot of negative hyperbole and misguided l2p issues.

    The class doesn't need to be nuked. It needs to be redesigned ( again lmao ) so that it actually has viable interactive counterplay. Currently if you die on a Mesmer, it's not because player who killed you was good. It's because you made a mistake.

    I doubt the core function of things like clones or mirage cloak will change. Not like the phantasm rework. In my mind the only potential functionality change is removing base ability to dodge when cced in MC.

    What could be possible is improvements to the targeting system for ease and accessibility to help people who struggle with retargeting quickly. Picking out the real mesmer after stealth or detarget visually should be effortless for good players anyway, but maybe the mechanics of tab or cursor select could be somehow refined further.

    I can see them effortlessly, but tab target when there are 8 enemy models on my screen has been the death of me in the past, and I've never been one for clicking on a model to target it. I don't mind that they drop target, but the fact that they so easily drop target, and can at-will change your target to one of their clones, is frustrating.

    Yes I just rapid nearest or next/previous then stop as soon as seeing the right one selected - generally under a second in 1v1, but understandably more annoying in 1vX with more than one enemy mesmer.

    A possible idea, what if:

    • phantasms were unable to be targeted
    • select next/previous target had guaranteed 50% chance to select the player, regardless of number of clones (assuming at least one clone is out)?

    So clones would be adding a randomness to the target selection, rather than existing in the cycle of next/previous. Each press would roll a separate 50% chance so on average two presses of next/previous would be most likely to reselect the real mesmer?

    I honestly do think the targeting system is the games biggest problem when it comes to mesmer.

    Edit - also at the same time it would be necessary to make all clones have identical buff bar to the mesmer - eg food, signets etc.

    Never dodge while dazed (EM handicap) | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    Any class that can attack and defend at the same time for over 10 seconds is automatically a scrub pandering class regardless of anything else it does.

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I accept that majority don't, and if that leads to nuking the class to appease at least the vocal mass on here then so be it, even if in terms of gameplay there's a lot of negative hyperbole and misguided l2p issues.

    The class doesn't need to be nuked. It needs to be redesigned ( again lmao ) so that it actually has viable interactive counterplay. Currently if you die on a Mesmer, it's not because player who killed you was good. It's because you made a mistake.

    I doubt the core function of things like clones or mirage cloak will change. Not like the phantasm rework. In my mind the only potential functionality change is removing base ability to dodge when cced in MC.

    What could be possible is improvements to the targeting system for ease and accessibility to help people who struggle with retargeting quickly. Picking out the real mesmer after stealth or detarget visually should be effortless for good players anyway, but maybe the mechanics of tab or cursor select could be somehow refined further.

    I can see them effortlessly, but tab target when there are 8 enemy models on my screen has been the death of me in the past, and I've never been one for clicking on a model to target it. I don't mind that they drop target, but the fact that they so easily drop target, and can at-will change your target to one of their clones, is frustrating.

    Yes I just rapid nearest or next/previous then stop as soon as seeing the right one selected - generally under a second in 1v1, but understandably more annoying in 1vX with more than one enemy mesmer.

    A possible idea, what if:

    • phantasms were unable to be targeted
    • select next/previous target had guaranteed 50% chance to select the player, regardless of number of clones (assuming at least one clone is out)?

    So clones would be adding a randomness to the target selection, rather than existing in the cycle of next/previous. Each press would roll a separate 50% chance so on average two presses of next/previous would be most likely to reselect the real mesmer?

    I honestly do think the targeting system is the games biggest problem when it comes to mesmer.

    Edit - also at the same time it would be necessary to make all clones have identical buff bar to the mesmer - eg food, signets etc.

    I think it would be worth trying, making it so tab targeting had a 50% chance of targeting the real mesmer, but I don't agree that for that scenario, you'd give the clones/phants all buffs. You'd still need some way to tell the real mesmer.

    I don't think it would work in any way for phantasms to not be targetable, as sometimes, there are clear benefits to targeting them. As an engineer, I can blow up the illusionary swordsman if I see it coming my way, but that might be harder if I can't target it.

    I don't know the solution, and I'm not sure the balance team does either, so if they're willing to try something like this for a week, I think it would be cool to see community feedback on it.

  • Yes

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Theres obvious reasons why i hate fighting mesmers.
    Clones that keep reapearing, like is that its only mechanic in 2 specializations and a core? Creating clones endlessly? If that wasnt a visual cluster mess they also have multiple detargeting skills along with the clones makes retargeting a nightmare.

    But thats not all, this one is the one that pisses me off the most. Confusion. There is no internal cool down on it so if you ever want to attack the mesmer u just end up killing your self in the processes. This may not be a problem for the heavy hitters in this game like warrior holo necro ranger classes, but for the quick casting light low health classes like fa ele, thf, gaurd, 12+ stack of confusion will drop us in 2 seconds or less.

    Im pretty sure in gw1 mesmer had more then 1 mechanic. Like it could specialize in hp negativity or mp negativity, cc master, or be duff master and more
    But here its juat clones clone clone come one come all spam then clones till enemy is a dead man.
    Heres a list of former gw1 mesmer builds vs the clonage that is now.
    Build:Me/A JQ Wastrel's Capper
    Build:Me/A Wastrel's Mesmer
    Build:Me/any Arenas Arcane Languor
    Build:Me/any FA Migraine's Demise
    Build:Me/any FA Psychic Chaos
    Build:Me/any FA Shutdown
    Build:Me/any GvG Air of Disenchantment
    Build:Me/any GvG June Domination Mesmer
    Build:Me/any HA Panic Mesmer
    Build:Me/any HA Psychic Distraction Mesmer
    Build:Me/any November Energy Surge
    Build:Me/any November Power Block
    Build:Me/any Power Block Mesmer
    Build:Me/any RA ESurge
    Build:Me/any RA Migraine Mesmer
    Build:Me/any RA Power Block
    Build:Me/any RA Psychic Distractor
    Build:Me/any Tease Mesmer November Flux
    Build:Me/E FA GoR Shutdown
    Build:Me/E JQ GoR Chaos Storm
    Build:Me/N FA May Flux
    Build:Me/Rt GvG E-Surge Spike Mesmer
    Build:Me/Rt GvG Non-Wastrel's Psychic Instability

    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

  • Yes

    I get it, you are trying to make a point, but your point is that "many people don't like to fight against mesmers so the class needs to be nerfed so much, nobody plays it anymore". You are essentially saying that that because 60% of the votes say "no", there is something wrong with the class.
    How would these polls look if you would ask about a necro with all the aoes, shades, pulsing mess? Or a thief that either bursts you to pieces or disappears just to try again a few seconds later?
    Either way, this is a misleading and simply stupid question to ask and you should really think hard about what this could lead to, because imagine if it leads to mesmers being nerfed out of existence... your favourite class could be the next that people find "unfun" to fight.

  • No

    My answer is no and that doesn't have to do with me thinking the class is OP or the obvious fact that Herald vs Condi Mirage is quite possibly one of the worst matchups in the game. No matter what I'm playing, I don't have fun playing against core one-shot mesmer or any variant of mirage. I don't feel like it's a fun matchup whether I'm playing rev, warrior, guard, thief, engi, ele, or anything else.

    The only mesmer spec I have veritably had fun fighting in this game is power chrono. However, I feel the poll is a bit skewed, so I voted for my overall opinion, which is that mesmer is unfun to fight against, especially these days. Mirage is by design terrible to fight against due to the complete BS nature of Mirage Cloak. No matter whether I win or lose I have no fun fighting it. This goes for both PvP and WvW but obviously it's worse in WvW with the permanent disengage.

    good lord i am absolute trash at this video game

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    So 166 votes, 80%+ of rejection towards the class, is this actionable yet?

    I think this deserves a comment by devs.

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    Nothing makes you improve more than fighting a busted spec.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    when they say i play a cat build....yes i do

  • @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

  • @ventusthunder.5067 said:
    My answer is no and that doesn't have to do with me thinking the class is OP or the obvious fact that Herald vs Condi Mirage is quite possibly one of the worst matchups in the game.

    Its just your opinion. Here is my opinion : mesmer vs thief ,always been one sided in thief favor because broken ecto and to support that anet added to withdraw torment removal to counter 1 of main conditions mesmer has,buffed plasma to have quickness/alacrity/resistance to spam steals endlessly.

    No matter what I'm playing, I don't have fun playing against core one-shot mesmer or any variant of mirage. I don't feel like it's a fun matchup whether I'm playing rev, warrior, guard, thief, engi, ele, or anything else.

    Thats a l2p issue . If core mesmer farming you after all those nerfs , thats just you, git gud sir.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭

    @Apolo.5942 said:
    So 166 votes, 80%+ of rejection towards the class, is this actionable yet?

    I think this deserves a comment by devs.

    That's not how the forum works.

  • No

    @Gulbasaur.1865 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:
    So 166 votes, 80%+ of rejection towards the class, is this actionable yet?

    I think this deserves a comment by devs.

    Are you aware of the terms "vocal minority" and "silent majority"?

    Mirage is easy to pick up in PvP, but they're also easy to flatten. There is a bit of paper-beats-scissors to it, but that's true of all builds. My mirage is utterly incapable of going up against, say, guardians, so for me they're a major threat and I usually run away from them (luckily all their skills are easy to spot). Rangers can wipe the floor with me because I've run out of evades before I'm anywhere near them and then they knock me back even further. Necromancers swishing that scythe thing about are a no-no.

    I think the trouble is that mirage is all-or-nothing in this regard. You're either dominating or dead already.

    with 20 sec of uptime defenses you cannot get closer to a ranger? wat. How?.......

    I am sorry but i feel if you cannot even get close to a ranger, and if you cant 1v1 a guardian or necro. You really shouldnt be talking about the specs balance like its fact. lol.

  • Arioch.4810Arioch.4810 Member ✭✭✭

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:

    @Gulbasaur.1865 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:
    So 166 votes, 80%+ of rejection towards the class, is this actionable yet?

    I think this deserves a comment by devs.

    Are you aware of the terms "vocal minority" and "silent majority"?

    Mirage is easy to pick up in PvP, but they're also easy to flatten. There is a bit of paper-beats-scissors to it, but that's true of all builds. My mirage is utterly incapable of going up against, say, guardians, so for me they're a major threat and I usually run away from them (luckily all their skills are easy to spot). Rangers can wipe the floor with me because I've run out of evades before I'm anywhere near them and then they knock me back even further. Necromancers swishing that scythe thing about are a no-no.

    I think the trouble is that mirage is all-or-nothing in this regard. You're either dominating or dead already.

    with 20 sec of uptime defenses you cannot get closer to a ranger? wat. How?.......

    I am sorry but i feel if you cannot even get close to a ranger, and if you cant 1v1 a guardian or necro. You really shouldnt be talking about the specs balance like its fact. lol.

    I believe Guldbasaur's view is based on his experience in game: From that i can deduct that he plays axe+torch and staff variant of Mirage. Problems against Guard, Rangers and Reapers arise with that particular weapon set. Had he decided to play axe+torch and sword+pistol variant, with better mobility, kiting power (and extra interrupt on pistol 5) his experiences would be different. Also, I don't see particular reference to 1v1 situations.

  • Gulbasaur.1865Gulbasaur.1865 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:
    with 20 sec of uptime defenses you cannot get closer to a ranger? wat. How?.......

    Longbow ranger has a lot of, well, range (1200 vs 900 for two jaunts) and a knockback. If they engage you while in combat with someone else or you don't have everything off cooldown, it's hard to close the gap. Where do you get the 20 seconds from, out of interest? Two or three evades with a weapon swap and four seconds of distortion in a best-case scenario.

    You really shouldnt be talking about the specs balance like its fact. lol.

    I wasn't. I repeatedly referred to myself and I used to phrase "as for me" and the words "I" and "my" several times to show that I was talking about my experience and giving my opinion. In my final paragraph, I said "in this regard", referring back to the previous paragraph.

    I can go back and highlight them for you if that would help you. Just let me know.

    @Arioch.4810 said:
    axe+torch and staff variant of Mirage

    Yeah. I did play axe/torch axe/pistol but I got bored with it. Pistol is arguably stronger than staff but it's fun in unranked to bamf about with staff and plop chaos storm on people. Pistol's range is still quite short, though. I think one of the fundamental issues with mirages is that it pays to keep three clones up at once, which makes things harder in PvP as people can't just automatically go for the nearest target, but it's the core mechanic for mesmers so altering it would be against the design concept of the profession.

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @ErazorZ.5209 said:

    @Gulbasaur.1865 said:

    @Apolo.5942 said:
    So 166 votes, 80%+ of rejection towards the class, is this actionable yet?

    I think this deserves a comment by devs.

    Are you aware of the terms "vocal minority" and "silent majority"?

    Mirage is easy to pick up in PvP, but they're also easy to flatten. There is a bit of paper-beats-scissors to it, but that's true of all builds. My mirage is utterly incapable of going up against, say, guardians, so for me they're a major threat and I usually run away from them (luckily all their skills are easy to spot). Rangers can wipe the floor with me because I've run out of evades before I'm anywhere near them and then they knock me back even further. Necromancers swishing that scythe thing about are a no-no.

    I think the trouble is that mirage is all-or-nothing in this regard. You're either dominating or dead already.

    with 20 sec of uptime defenses you cannot get closer to a ranger? wat. How?.......

    I am sorry but i feel if you cannot even get close to a ranger, and if you cant 1v1 a guardian or necro. You really shouldnt be talking about the specs balance like its fact. lol.

    Why you think you are allowed to talk anything if all you do is just a lie ?
    I feel sorry for you since best what you can do in your life is spam nonsense in mapchat and spread misinfo/lie on forum

    @Arioch.4810 said:
    I believe Guldbasaur's view is based on his experience in game: From that i can deduct that he plays axe+torch and staff variant of Mirage. Problems against Guard, Rangers and Reapers arise with that particular weapon set. Had he decided to play axe+torch and sword+pistol variant, with better mobility, kiting power (and extra interrupt on pistol 5) his experiences would be different. Also, I don't see particular reference to 1v1 situations.

    Who even play sword after all those nerfs on vigor/bf ? IH doesnt benefit from sword at all . What better mobility, lack of any swiftness ? I wouldnt want to use sword ambush for mobility to start a fight without a single dodge

  • Arioch.4810Arioch.4810 Member ✭✭✭

    Who even play sword after all those nerfs on vigor/bf ? IH doesnt benefit from sword at all . What better mobility lack of any swiftness ? I wouldnt want to use sword ambush for mobility to start a fight without a single dodge

    While you will almost always start fight with 1 less dodge (sword ambush used as mobility ) it's good value for rotating across points: You use sword2 and pistol interrupt to survive (replace that dodge) Raw dmg is lover (a lot! ) but it plays differently and kites much better. Not sure iit is "the" build but it's close to meta in my opinion,

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @Arioch.4810 said:

    Who even play sword after all those nerfs on vigor/bf ? IH doesnt benefit from sword at all . What better mobility lack of any swiftness ? I wouldnt want to use sword ambush for mobility to start a fight without a single dodge

    While you will almost always start fight with 1 less dodge (sword ambush used as mobility ) it's good value for rotating across points: You use sword2 and pistol interrupt to survive (replace that dodge) Raw dmg is lover (a lot! ) but it plays differently and kites much better. Not sure iit is "the" build but it's close to meta in my opinion,

    Sword from being good for all kind of builds became trash for all kind of builds. Rooting yourself for 1s and unclear animation when its ends and weird after cast AND really pathetic raw damage... oh did i meantion retal into 2-3 ppl shrekts you ? What they did is trashed weapon

    July 10, 2018
    The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. (8)suicidal into retal
    Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%.
    The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds. For nerfing evade twice as much -2s rofl

    Skill n3 is garbage as well since clone die from some1s sneezing even before u can use it

  • Yes

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    Also weaken knees and some other hex that did damage on moving foes (forgot the name was used to kill carriers on jq) that made torment look like childs play.
    GW2 spoiled everyone...

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019
    No

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    BRAVO!!

    photofunky.gif

  • Yes

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mirage - No

    Too many interrupts.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019
    No

    step in with guild team members;; 1 shot= heading to Square Enix: FF14 online. Definitely enjoying Gw2 'competitive' scene.

    (Great way to keep 39 player including observing new players streaming live motivated with your game)

    later

    (here is a 6 years old video of a mesmer one shooting. Fast forward 6 years later....what do you find new here?)
    no offense-Seriously, where can i find the rewind button ?

    mesmer one shot

    Published on May 16, 2012

    'The Future Belongs To All Who,
    Refusing To Look Back At The Past'

  • No

    The perma reflect on Mesmer is terrible (I play longbow Soulbeast in WvW). I will usually test if the Mesmer has a reflect build with Evasive Mirror and all that trash and then just flee cause its impossible to get even 1 hit with longbow and going melee is just suicide with all the condis, detargeting and evasions.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mirage - No

    Core and chrono I don't have too many issues with. Sure, there's some BS now and then, but generally it's relatively tame and not impossible to counter. You always felt like you could get a fair fight with core and chrono, unless they were during the stupid tanky periods.

    Mirage takes it to a whole new level of frustration though. Constant detargeting, stealth, attacking while dodging, dodging while stunned, spamming multiple conditions endlessly... all of it makes for an immensely frustrating fight. No other class pisses me off more consistently -- at least deadeyes you can counter if you're prepared. Mirages... just no.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭
    Mirage - No

    Power Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono yes because they can one shot you but you just have to stay focused and you can out sustain them as they have very little heal or condi clear.
    Condi just gives me ebola because the axe has extra evades, and you can take extra vitality/healing/condi clear while doing maximum dps for your build.

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

  • Yes

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    Clones have counterplay, they die in one auto attack.
    There's a reason mesmers want a cloneless spec, clones provide defense for a split sec while you're targeting the mesmer yeah, but they're a nuisance for the mesmers themselves, kill clones and the mesmer damage is turns pathetically low.
    As for stealth I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of people that wants stealth removed from the game and I'm one of them, there's not single mmo that has a good stealth system, stealth is a kitten mechanic.

    And again, GW1 mes in GW2 would make the forums explode from all the qq.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes

    I typically fight anyone on anything. If I lose, I lose, if I win, I win. Condi mirages are cancer, however I like beating them the most...knock em down a peg or 2 ;)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/mc_celestia
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    Clones have counterplay, they die in one auto attack.
    There's a reason mesmers want a cloneless spec, clones provide defense for a split sec while you're targeting the mesmer yeah, but they're a nuisance for the mesmers themselves, kill clones and the mesmer damage is turns pathetically low.
    As for stealth I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of people that wants stealth removed from the game and I'm one of them, there's not single mmo that has a good stealth system, stealth is a kitten mechanic.

    And again, GW1 mes in GW2 would make the forums explode from all the qq.

    Basically my signature being added to the game. It would be kitten storm.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    No

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    Clones have counterplay, they die in one auto attack.
    There's a reason mesmers want a cloneless spec, clones provide defense for a split sec while you're targeting the mesmer yeah, but they're a nuisance for the mesmers themselves, kill clones and the mesmer damage is turns pathetically low.
    As for stealth I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of people that wants stealth removed from the game and I'm one of them, there's not single mmo that has a good stealth system, stealth is a kitten mechanic.

    And again, GW1 mes in GW2 would make the forums explode from all the qq.

    you cant destroy them in 1 hit when Mirage is using infinite horizon and clones become in fact invul most of time...

  • Yes

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    Clones have counterplay, they die in one auto attack.
    There's a reason mesmers want a cloneless spec, clones provide defense for a split sec while you're targeting the mesmer yeah, but they're a nuisance for the mesmers themselves, kill clones and the mesmer damage is turns pathetically low.
    As for stealth I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of people that wants stealth removed from the game and I'm one of them, there's not single mmo that has a good stealth system, stealth is a kitten mechanic.

    And again, GW1 mes in GW2 would make the forums explode from all the qq.

    you cant destroy them in 1 hit when Mirage is using infinite horizon and clones become in fact invul most of time...

    Define "most of the time".
    Because mirage is one of the professions with least vigor uptime.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019
    Other - Explain

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    Clones have counterplay, they die in one auto attack.
    There's a reason mesmers want a cloneless spec, clones provide defense for a split sec while you're targeting the mesmer yeah, but they're a nuisance for the mesmers themselves, kill clones and the mesmer damage is turns pathetically low.
    As for stealth I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of people that wants stealth removed from the game and I'm one of them, there's not single mmo that has a good stealth system, stealth is a kitten mechanic.

    And again, GW1 mes in GW2 would make the forums explode from all the qq.

    you cant destroy them in 1 hit when Mirage is using infinite horizon and clones become in fact invul most of time...

    Define "most of the time".
    Because mirage is one of the professions with least vigor uptime.

    Duel/Chaos Mirages have a decent Vigor uptime as they receive Vigor from shattering, Vigor from Critical Strikes and Vigor from Cry of Frustration specifically (so 2 stances of vigor for that shatter). To not mention the sigils of Energy and Rune of Adventurer. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the meta build.

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Soldier (Rank 4900) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • Yes

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    Clones have counterplay, they die in one auto attack.
    There's a reason mesmers want a cloneless spec, clones provide defense for a split sec while you're targeting the mesmer yeah, but they're a nuisance for the mesmers themselves, kill clones and the mesmer damage is turns pathetically low.
    As for stealth I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of people that wants stealth removed from the game and I'm one of them, there's not single mmo that has a good stealth system, stealth is a kitten mechanic.

    And again, GW1 mes in GW2 would make the forums explode from all the qq.

    you cant destroy them in 1 hit when Mirage is using infinite horizon and clones become in fact invul most of time...

    Define "most of the time".
    Because mirage is one of the professions with least vigor uptime.

    Duel/Chaos Mirages have a decent Vigor uptime as they receive Vigor from shattering, Vigor from Critical Strikes and Vigor from Cry of Frustration specifically (so 2 stances of vigor for that shatter). To not mention the sigils of Energy and Rune of Adventurer. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the meta build.

    Only bountiful is a good source of vigor, vigor from shatter and crit (crit chance with meta build is low) uptime is pitiful with the successive nerfs, sigils and rune were nerfed as well.
    And that's not to say that by running chaos both sustain damage and burst will be a lot lower than duel/illu.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mirage - No

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    condi mirage cause its the most skill based spec in the game.

    ... and now I have to clean all of the water I was drinking off of my keyboard.
    That aside, I've never been overly fond of fighting mesmers in group scenarios. Regardless of balance, the visual clutter has always been obnoxious.

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    Clones have counterplay, they die in one auto attack.
    There's a reason mesmers want a cloneless spec, clones provide defense for a split sec while you're targeting the mesmer yeah, but they're a nuisance for the mesmers themselves, kill clones and the mesmer damage is turns pathetically low.
    As for stealth I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of people that wants stealth removed from the game and I'm one of them, there's not single mmo that has a good stealth system, stealth is a kitten mechanic.

    And again, GW1 mes in GW2 would make the forums explode from all the qq.

    Clones dieing in one autoattack must mean you're running some sort of super glass spec...which typically lack any resemblance of reasonable condi removal against mesmer, killing clones to negate the mesmers was a possible counterplay during 2013..before the whole powercreep started.

    You keep mentioning GW1 like a typical domination mesmer was any serious threat, again there was massive counterplay in GW1, all you needed to do against a dom mesmer was to wear him down as his only offensive was I believe a couple hexes and in GW1 there was a max of -8 degenaration and you could cover it with 7-8+ regeneration easily, after that fake cast low energy cost skills and hit the mesmer with your big hits...mesmer was down np.

    In no shape or form was the mesmer in Gw1 OP, annoying af to deal with for certain but the class was well designed with clear weaknesses that could be exploited by an attentive player on any of the other 8 classes.

    The fake casting/ defensive-swap was one of the most loved nuances of GW1...not like the macroed insta burst kitten of GW2, I am sorry but in terms of design GW2 is hundreds of miles behind GW1...no comparison whatsoever

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019
    No

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @getalifeturd.8139 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Think I can speak for most mesmers when I say that would have prefer GW1 type of mesmer instead of this one as well.
    But since you played both, how hard do you think the qq would be if mesmer was like the previous one?

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_hex_spells

    I can only imagine the Q.Q in this game if players were punished for spamming skills. Empathy and Insidious Parasite would hard counter melee. Backfire and Arcane Conundrum would make casters rage. Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit would make zergs cry and ragequit the game forever. And those are only some of the many things that made Guild Wars 1 more of an Esport than this game will ever be.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was no stealth.....no reflect...no low CD teleport..no distortion...no clones...basically 90% of GW2 mesmers would insta die in GW1 but most of all....nobody could jump on mesmer and next day spam laugh/dance emotes thinking of being ESL champions

    All true but GW1 mesmer was way more deadly and annoying than GW2 counterpart.
    Forums would explode from all qq. "Empathy op, backfire op, visions of regret op, wastrel's worry op". "omg what am I supposed to do, if I attack/cast I die if I don't attack/cast I die ANet nerf please". "perma rupted isn't fun ANet nerf please" and so on

    Again...no stealth and clones allow for massive counterplay regardless of what the mesmer was running.....

    Clones have counterplay, they die in one auto attack.
    There's a reason mesmers want a cloneless spec, clones provide defense for a split sec while you're targeting the mesmer yeah, but they're a nuisance for the mesmers themselves, kill clones and the mesmer damage is turns pathetically low.
    As for stealth I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of people that wants stealth removed from the game and I'm one of them, there's not single mmo that has a good stealth system, stealth is a kitten mechanic.

    And again, GW1 mes in GW2 would make the forums explode from all the qq.

    Clones dieing in one autoattack must mean you're running some sort of super glass spec...which typically lack any resemblance of reasonable condi removal against mesmer, killing clones to negate the mesmers was a possible counterplay during 2013..before the whole powercreep started.

    You keep mentioning GW1 like a typical domination mesmer was any serious threat, again there was massive counterplay in GW1, all you needed to do against a dom mesmer was to wear him down as his only offensive was I believe a couple hexes and in GW1 there was a max of -8 degenaration and you could cover it with 7-8+ regeneration easily, after that fake cast low energy cost skills and hit the mesmer with your big hits...mesmer was down np.

    In no shape or form was the mesmer in Gw1 OP, annoying af to deal with for certain but the class was well designed with clear weaknesses that could be exploited by an attentive player on any of the other 8 classes.

    The fake casting/ defensive-swap was one of the most loved nuances of GW1...not like the macroed insta burst kitten of GW2, I am sorry but in terms of design GW2 is hundreds of miles behind GW1...no comparison whatsoever

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