Raid Selling and "LFG" Clutter [Merged] - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raid Selling and "LFG" Clutter [Merged]

2>

Comments

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    LOL
    This is the same as having problems with LFG posts of mesmers porting people at jumping puzzles/Mastery Points/Hero Points for tips.

    Apathy is death.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because the people who own the property said so.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    Monetizing raiding does erode the native topography of the true Scots Raider and if Sasquatch can walk a Flat Earth then why not accept a place for true Tyrian Raiders to express and reward themselves. Perhaps the threshold for monetizing minimum or limited participation in raids can be maintained by a reward topography of core raid skill metrics such as critical hit chains, combination counters, and damage. Players would directly earn along a reward path as they made combinations, beat old high damage scores, buffed other players, provided healing, etc. A player could demonstrate proficiency in a role, making it easier to negotiate a non-paying place in a raid group. True Tyrian Raider merchants could demonstrate their proficiency and skill level.

    The skill profile for raiding is analogous to and exists on a spectrum with, the skill profile for PvP and certainly deserves similar reward treatment.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    If you want something, you work for it. If you want raid loot, you should improve your build, your gameplay and get a team together. That's why you play a mmorpg.

    I don't know about you, but that's definitely not why i play MMOs. Not even close.

    That's ok, but why play an MMORPG in the first place? It's already in the name "massive MULTIplayer online roleplaying game". You still can play it solo and there are a lot of things to do solo, but raids are by nature content designed for groups. And group play is associated with social behaviour, team play and learning.
    And that's where the game suffers when you enable people to take shortcuts.
    You can see what happens to MMORPG when this selling stuff and buying raids/pvp gets out of hands in World of Warcraft
    The community went from "normal" to mostly toxic, because people hate on each other for buying, selling, achievements or kicking each other out of groups because they seem not to fit in, don't have the necessary achievements, can't play their class, etc.
    It went that far that you use tools to find out if the player you invite is boosted to his gear or got it a legit way. You can't even group up for pvp anymore without linking your achievement window. Meanwhile people search for carries, pay hundreds of thousand of gold because almost no one wants to be bothered anymore to create a own raid. It's easier to dumb down the process, buy or farm gold and get carried.
    It can take you hours to find a group for anything, because people expect to be carried with their groups. A wipe in a mythic+ (similar to fractals) mostly ends the group.
    We had a very successful raid and rbg team back in 2013 in that game. It took as weeks to find a player that was able to play his class on at least mediocre level to fill a raid slot. Most people that wanted to join us had good gear, but couldn't play a basic rotation in a test raid.
    Same goes for pvp. After we transfered to GW2, I still tried to pvp in WoW for a while. It was impossible to find a group that wanted me, because I only had the 2,2k pvp achievement and they wanted at least 2,3k+ - for a group playing in the 1800 ranking area.

    That's all things which come with "selling" and "buying" of key components of the game. It rises peoples expectations, it makes the community toxic and takes away the incentive from people to reward themselves by trying and working for stuff.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2018

    My thought is that I have much better stuff to do than waste my time on LFG looking for things that don't seem right. This is like a non-issue beyond a non-issue.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @gebrechen.5643 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    If you want something, you work for it. If you want raid loot, you should improve your build, your gameplay and get a team together. That's why you play a mmorpg.

    I don't know about you, but that's definitely not why i play MMOs. Not even close.

    That's ok, but why play an MMORPG in the first place? It's already in the name "massive MULTIplayer online roleplaying game". You still can play it solo and there are a lot of things to do solo, but raids are by nature content designed for groups. And group play is associated with social behaviour, team play and learning.

    First part, not necessarily the last one. I play to unwind, and for the social aspect. I do not play to "improve" myself. I do not play to "challenge" myself. I know that some people do, but that's by no means a factor common to all players. It wasn't even in the old hardcore times when 100k total population was considered really massive for a multiplayer game. It definitely wasn't after the games opened for a bigger population and started to be more accepting of casual gameplay.

    You can see what happens to MMORPG when this selling stuff and buying raids/pvp gets out of hands in World of Warcraft
    The community went from "normal" to mostly toxic, because people hate on each other for buying, selling, achievements or kicking each other out of groups because they seem not to fit in, don't have the necessary achievements, can't play their class, etc.

    You... don't really remember the "good old times", do you. A hint: for the most part, toxicity is not connected to raid selling. In fact, most raiders do not really seem to care about it. The hate and toxicity has a completely different source - one that existed since the very beginning.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • The community went from "normal" to mostly toxic, because people hate on each other for buying, selling, achievements or kicking each other out of groups because they seem not to fit in, don't have the necessary achievements, can't play their class, etc.

    The "community" has always included people who hate on buyers and sellers, people who kick others out of groups for whatever reasonable or unreasonable criteria.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • robertthebard.8150robertthebard.8150 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2018

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    If you want something, you work for it. If you want raid loot, you should improve your build, your gameplay and get a team together. That's why you play a mmorpg.

    I don't know about you, but that's definitely not why i play MMOs. Not even close.

    That's ok, but why play an MMORPG in the first place? It's already in the name "massive MULTIplayer online roleplaying game". You still can play it solo and there are a lot of things to do solo, but raids are by nature content designed for groups. And group play is associated with social behaviour, team play and learning.

    First part, not necessarily the last one. I play to unwind, and for the social aspect. I do not play to "improve" myself. I do not play to "challenge" myself. I know that some people do, but that's by no means a factor common to all players. It wasn't even in the old hardcore times when 100k total population was considered really massive for a multiplayer game. It definitely wasn't after the games opened for a bigger population and started to be more accepting of casual gameplay.

    You can see what happens to MMORPG when this selling stuff and buying raids/pvp gets out of hands in World of Warcraft
    The community went from "normal" to mostly toxic, because people hate on each other for buying, selling, achievements or kicking each other out of groups because they seem not to fit in, don't have the necessary achievements, can't play their class, etc.

    You... don't really remember the "good old times", do you. A hint: for the most part, toxicity is not connected to raid selling. In fact, most raiders do not really seem to care about it. The hate and toxicity has a completely different source - one that existed since the very beginning.

    The people that raid normally? The "gear elitists" that want to peek in your virtual windows to see if you're special enough to be in their groups? Ah, the good ol' days, where a player will spend 15 minutes waiting for a group to fill complaining about another character's gear/HP, and then demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of the mechanics of a raid?

    In DDO, my 298 HP artificer wasn't qualified to run a quest, because I didn't have 300 HP, from the party healer, for about 15 minutes, before I dropped group and ran the exact same quest, on the same difficulty, solo. Or maybe you want something more recent? swtor, requiring NiM grade gear for a Story Mode operation, or also from swtor, complaining about the healers in a raid group being "undergeared", and then standing in the world's most obvious tells to eat a laser, and die. What part of the glaring sirens and flashing lights, and the rest of the group moving off to the platforms on the sides of where the boss fight happens doesn't cue you in that it's time to move? That toxicity that comes from having "all the right stuff", because someone carried you to it, and you suddenly believe you know better than anyone else, maybe? There's a reason that I advise people to fill groups from their guilds and friends list. I've seen the toxicity of the raiding community spread over decades of games.

    That's not to say there isn't enough to go around, I'm sure there is, but when I think of the "good ol' days", the amount of elitism from raiding communities is the first thing I remember, when raids are the topic anyway. I've seen enough to fuel my own cynicism about raiding in general, at least from groups outside of people you actually know, even if it's just through your guild/(s). I've also seen enough to know that selling spots isn't really a "main" factor. Sure, it makes some people mad, but that's on them. The toxicity has it's roots a lot closer to elitists, some of whom couldn't be bothered to sell a completion. Their main issue seems to always center around "If I can't get the exact group I want, we won't be able to finish". Hey, sometimes that can be a valid consideration, but as in my first example from swtor above: The gear he's requiring for a SM op, NiM rated, that's Nightmare, in case you didn't know, dropped in the SM versions of the ops, so you can't run with him, unless you don't really need to run it. I wonder why some groups take hours to fill?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2018

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    By offering those clears, you give the players out there an alternative to never bother with the content at all, but gaining every advantage anyway. So they forcefully reduce the player-base, prevent a good portion of people from even trying the thing for real, and transform the content into a dull repetitive routine for themselves. That is not forbidden, but imho counter-productive if you really enjoy the content and believe more people should give it a try.

    It belongs to the long list of player-created-problems. So it would be our task to find a proper solution to this. Reasoning with the sellers is pointless.

    Discussing the topic in public sooner or later leads to the ultimate argument. I have not managed a way to counter that, yet. You can justify almost everything with that line:

    It is a free world, everyone can decide for themselves whether they want to do this or not.

    Actually the sold spots are the only way for some of us to get into a raid...

    How long have raids been out? Ive been posting as a first timer since then and repeatedly kicked from groups because of it, literally no one wants a first timer in thier raids...

    I'm sorry but no, if you had actually any real interest in raids you would have found ways to raid by now.

    Simply putting up a Looking for Group and hoping people will flock to you and add you to their raid is about as fruitful as watching grass grow (and as productive).

    There are proper ways which have proven successful for people to get into raiding. They include but are not limited to:

    • joining a guild which raids and does training runs
    • joining general training runs
    • joining a discord server and finding a training raid there (there are discord servers with 1,000+ players on them running multiple training raids at a time

    I'm not opposed to people selling raid and boss kills (though I am not thrilled by this either) but this constant nonsense about raids being hard to get into ist just that: nonsense.

    There are elegible reasons for someone not being able to raid:

    • time commitment
    • age and or disabilities (and even here there is tons of players who manage)
    • social anxiety
    • etc.

    Most everything else are poor excuses.

    Not all of us sit there posting every single day, some of us have families and work to attend too so when I get a spare 2 or 3 hours to game I post and I still havent managed to get in on one yet, Ive made a few threads on the forums here asking to be invited and yet Im still to raid.

    Raiders are elitists, its as simple as that. Not in a bad way either, its about effeciency.
    (I totally get it too now after playing cod 4 zombie mode, im level 52 and dont start a round with anything less than level 5 or micless because I want to go more than 10 to 15 rounds)

    Those sellers really help players like me and if Im putting money into the game to convert to gold to buy raids then inadvertently they help Anet too, so with that said, I hope nothing drastic changes on the matter.

    I fully understand your situation. Please realize though that your approach to raid is akin to entering an empty room day in day out and then complaining that you never meet someone. The LFG is very special in what gets searched for and how it gets used.

    Posting in the LFG is simply not the way to get into raiding. It isn't even for experienced raiders (unless they are playing a highly demanded role like chrono and even then it will take way longer than joining directly). Less so as inexperienced raider performing lesser roles. It will NEVER happen that way.

    If you want to raid and are limited time wise (which I mentioned as a limiting criteria) then join a raid training discord server and check in there when you have time. Or join a guild which have flexible raid trainings and try to get an evening off. I'm currently helping out in 2 guilds with raid training and many people in those raids have families and full time jobs (and as such are also very precise on ending on time for example).

    Send us an invite then.. I play at roughly 8pm Australia time.

    I cleared up a guild spot or you can post the training discord channel here?

    Im assuming youre able to help, you make it sound super simple. The last 10 or so people who said it was easy refused to post this channel and refused to take first timers but maybe you're different?

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    All I want is Anet to create a dedicated lfg section for selling raids or whatever else they want to sell.
    I am sick of seeing raid lfg filled with sellers.
    Win win. People who dislike raid selling don't have to deal with it. People who want to buy raids know where to go. People who sell raids, don't have to interact with people who dislike raid selling.
    If it is against Anet's rules to sell raids, only Anet can be the judge..

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    By offering those clears, you give the players out there an alternative to never bother with the content at all, but gaining every advantage anyway. So they forcefully reduce the player-base, prevent a good portion of people from even trying the thing for real, and transform the content into a dull repetitive routine for themselves. That is not forbidden, but imho counter-productive if you really enjoy the content and believe more people should give it a try.

    It belongs to the long list of player-created-problems. So it would be our task to find a proper solution to this. Reasoning with the sellers is pointless.

    Discussing the topic in public sooner or later leads to the ultimate argument. I have not managed a way to counter that, yet. You can justify almost everything with that line:

    It is a free world, everyone can decide for themselves whether they want to do this or not.

    Actually the sold spots are the only way for some of us to get into a raid...

    How long have raids been out? Ive been posting as a first timer since then and repeatedly kicked from groups because of it, literally no one wants a first timer in thier raids...

    I'm sorry but no, if you had actually any real interest in raids you would have found ways to raid by now.

    Simply putting up a Looking for Group and hoping people will flock to you and add you to their raid is about as fruitful as watching grass grow (and as productive).

    There are proper ways which have proven successful for people to get into raiding. They include but are not limited to:

    • joining a guild which raids and does training runs
    • joining general training runs
    • joining a discord server and finding a training raid there (there are discord servers with 1,000+ players on them running multiple training raids at a time

    I'm not opposed to people selling raid and boss kills (though I am not thrilled by this either) but this constant nonsense about raids being hard to get into ist just that: nonsense.

    There are elegible reasons for someone not being able to raid:

    • time commitment
    • age and or disabilities (and even here there is tons of players who manage)
    • social anxiety
    • etc.

    Most everything else are poor excuses.

    Not all of us sit there posting every single day, some of us have families and work to attend too so when I get a spare 2 or 3 hours to game I post and I still havent managed to get in on one yet, Ive made a few threads on the forums here asking to be invited and yet Im still to raid.

    Raiders are elitists, its as simple as that. Not in a bad way either, its about effeciency.
    (I totally get it too now after playing cod 4 zombie mode, im level 52 and dont start a round with anything less than level 5 or micless because I want to go more than 10 to 15 rounds)

    Those sellers really help players like me and if Im putting money into the game to convert to gold to buy raids then inadvertently they help Anet too, so with that said, I hope nothing drastic changes on the matter.

    I fully understand your situation. Please realize though that your approach to raid is akin to entering an empty room day in day out and then complaining that you never meet someone. The LFG is very special in what gets searched for and how it gets used.

    Posting in the LFG is simply not the way to get into raiding. It isn't even for experienced raiders (unless they are playing a highly demanded role like chrono and even then it will take way longer than joining directly). Less so as inexperienced raider performing lesser roles. It will NEVER happen that way.

    If you want to raid and are limited time wise (which I mentioned as a limiting criteria) then join a raid training discord server and check in there when you have time. Or join a guild which have flexible raid trainings and try to get an evening off. I'm currently helping out in 2 guilds with raid training and many people in those raids have families and full time jobs (and as such are also very precise on ending on time for example).

    Send us an invite then.. I play at roughly 8pm Australia time.

    I cleared up a guild spot or you can post the training discord channel here?

    Im assuming youre able to help, you make it sound super simple. The last 10 or so people who said it was easy refused to post this channel and refused to take first timers but maybe you're different?

    Sure, my main guild I'm in is Karma Initiative, the EU reddit GW2 guild. We have our raid trainings usually every Sunday at 8 p.m. CET (GMT+1).

    Send me a message in game if you are playing on EU servers. We usually decide after each raid training on what we will run the next week and cycle through what is needed and wanted most, depending on how experienced or inexperienced the majority of participants is (ranging all the way from doing CMs to common basics like early wings 1-4). Guild membership is not required for a couple of trainings, so no fuss there too.

    Raid training discord for EU: https://discord.gg/nZg52r3
    Raid training discord for US: https://discord.gg/SvsVzVQ

    As far as individual guilds, check reddit or these forums for Oceanic guilds. Strait from the Looking for Guild forum, 6th from the top:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/498/sea-ocx-partial-na-hod-pvx-equinox-solstice-time#latest

    EDIT:
    In our case we use discord. It is not required but very appreciated if people listen in (no reason to talk) since it makes explaining mechanics a lot easier. Other guilds might use TeamSpeak or Mumble.

  • titje.2745titje.2745 Member ✭✭✭

    even with selling raids... have you never gave a mesmer 5 gold when he helped you for a jumping puzzle? everyone has his own thing where he or she is good at.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    By offering those clears, you give the players out there an alternative to never bother with the content at all, but gaining every advantage anyway. So they forcefully reduce the player-base, prevent a good portion of people from even trying the thing for real, and transform the content into a dull repetitive routine for themselves. That is not forbidden, but imho counter-productive if you really enjoy the content and believe more people should give it a try.

    It belongs to the long list of player-created-problems. So it would be our task to find a proper solution to this. Reasoning with the sellers is pointless.

    Discussing the topic in public sooner or later leads to the ultimate argument. I have not managed a way to counter that, yet. You can justify almost everything with that line:

    It is a free world, everyone can decide for themselves whether they want to do this or not.

    Actually the sold spots are the only way for some of us to get into a raid...

    How long have raids been out? Ive been posting as a first timer since then and repeatedly kicked from groups because of it, literally no one wants a first timer in thier raids...

    I'm sorry but no, if you had actually any real interest in raids you would have found ways to raid by now.

    Simply putting up a Looking for Group and hoping people will flock to you and add you to their raid is about as fruitful as watching grass grow (and as productive).

    There are proper ways which have proven successful for people to get into raiding. They include but are not limited to:

    • joining a guild which raids and does training runs
    • joining general training runs
    • joining a discord server and finding a training raid there (there are discord servers with 1,000+ players on them running multiple training raids at a time

    I'm not opposed to people selling raid and boss kills (though I am not thrilled by this either) but this constant nonsense about raids being hard to get into ist just that: nonsense.

    There are elegible reasons for someone not being able to raid:

    • time commitment
    • age and or disabilities (and even here there is tons of players who manage)
    • social anxiety
    • etc.

    Most everything else are poor excuses.

    Not all of us sit there posting every single day, some of us have families and work to attend too so when I get a spare 2 or 3 hours to game I post and I still havent managed to get in on one yet, Ive made a few threads on the forums here asking to be invited and yet Im still to raid.

    Raiders are elitists, its as simple as that. Not in a bad way either, its about effeciency.
    (I totally get it too now after playing cod 4 zombie mode, im level 52 and dont start a round with anything less than level 5 or micless because I want to go more than 10 to 15 rounds)

    Those sellers really help players like me and if Im putting money into the game to convert to gold to buy raids then inadvertently they help Anet too, so with that said, I hope nothing drastic changes on the matter.

    I fully understand your situation. Please realize though that your approach to raid is akin to entering an empty room day in day out and then complaining that you never meet someone. The LFG is very special in what gets searched for and how it gets used.

    Posting in the LFG is simply not the way to get into raiding. It isn't even for experienced raiders (unless they are playing a highly demanded role like chrono and even then it will take way longer than joining directly). Less so as inexperienced raider performing lesser roles. It will NEVER happen that way.

    If you want to raid and are limited time wise (which I mentioned as a limiting criteria) then join a raid training discord server and check in there when you have time. Or join a guild which have flexible raid trainings and try to get an evening off. I'm currently helping out in 2 guilds with raid training and many people in those raids have families and full time jobs (and as such are also very precise on ending on time for example).

    Send us an invite then.. I play at roughly 8pm Australia time.

    I cleared up a guild spot or you can post the training discord channel here?

    Im assuming youre able to help, you make it sound super simple. The last 10 or so people who said it was easy refused to post this channel and refused to take first timers but maybe you're different?

    Sure, my main guild I'm in is Karma Initiative, the EU reddit GW2 guild. We have our raid trainings usually every Sunday at 8 p.m. CET (GMT+1).

    Send me a message in game if you are playing on EU servers. We usually decide after each raid training on what we will run the next week and cycle through what is needed and wanted most, depending on how experienced or inexperienced the majority of participants is (ranging all the way from doing CMs to common basics like early wings 1-4). Guild membership is not required for a couple of trainings, so no fuss there too.

    Raid training discord for EU: https://discord.gg/nZg52r3
    Raid training discord for US: https://discord.gg/SvsVzVQ

    As far as individual guilds, check reddit or these forums for Oceanic guilds. Strait from the Looking for Guild forum, 6th from the top:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/498/sea-ocx-partial-na-hod-pvx-equinox-solstice-time#latest

    EDIT:
    In our case we use discord. It is not required but very appreciated if people listen in (no reason to talk) since it makes explaining mechanics a lot easier. Other guilds might use TeamSpeak or Mumble.

    Just my luck that youre EU 😢

    You guys have Aussies over on the EU servers? Hmmmmm....

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    By offering those clears, you give the players out there an alternative to never bother with the content at all, but gaining every advantage anyway. So they forcefully reduce the player-base, prevent a good portion of people from even trying the thing for real, and transform the content into a dull repetitive routine for themselves. That is not forbidden, but imho counter-productive if you really enjoy the content and believe more people should give it a try.

    It belongs to the long list of player-created-problems. So it would be our task to find a proper solution to this. Reasoning with the sellers is pointless.

    Discussing the topic in public sooner or later leads to the ultimate argument. I have not managed a way to counter that, yet. You can justify almost everything with that line:

    It is a free world, everyone can decide for themselves whether they want to do this or not.

    Actually the sold spots are the only way for some of us to get into a raid...

    How long have raids been out? Ive been posting as a first timer since then and repeatedly kicked from groups because of it, literally no one wants a first timer in thier raids...

    I'm sorry but no, if you had actually any real interest in raids you would have found ways to raid by now.

    Simply putting up a Looking for Group and hoping people will flock to you and add you to their raid is about as fruitful as watching grass grow (and as productive).

    There are proper ways which have proven successful for people to get into raiding. They include but are not limited to:

    • joining a guild which raids and does training runs
    • joining general training runs
    • joining a discord server and finding a training raid there (there are discord servers with 1,000+ players on them running multiple training raids at a time

    I'm not opposed to people selling raid and boss kills (though I am not thrilled by this either) but this constant nonsense about raids being hard to get into ist just that: nonsense.

    There are elegible reasons for someone not being able to raid:

    • time commitment
    • age and or disabilities (and even here there is tons of players who manage)
    • social anxiety
    • etc.

    Most everything else are poor excuses.

    Not all of us sit there posting every single day, some of us have families and work to attend too so when I get a spare 2 or 3 hours to game I post and I still havent managed to get in on one yet, Ive made a few threads on the forums here asking to be invited and yet Im still to raid.

    Raiders are elitists, its as simple as that. Not in a bad way either, its about effeciency.
    (I totally get it too now after playing cod 4 zombie mode, im level 52 and dont start a round with anything less than level 5 or micless because I want to go more than 10 to 15 rounds)

    Those sellers really help players like me and if Im putting money into the game to convert to gold to buy raids then inadvertently they help Anet too, so with that said, I hope nothing drastic changes on the matter.

    I fully understand your situation. Please realize though that your approach to raid is akin to entering an empty room day in day out and then complaining that you never meet someone. The LFG is very special in what gets searched for and how it gets used.

    Posting in the LFG is simply not the way to get into raiding. It isn't even for experienced raiders (unless they are playing a highly demanded role like chrono and even then it will take way longer than joining directly). Less so as inexperienced raider performing lesser roles. It will NEVER happen that way.

    If you want to raid and are limited time wise (which I mentioned as a limiting criteria) then join a raid training discord server and check in there when you have time. Or join a guild which have flexible raid trainings and try to get an evening off. I'm currently helping out in 2 guilds with raid training and many people in those raids have families and full time jobs (and as such are also very precise on ending on time for example).

    Send us an invite then.. I play at roughly 8pm Australia time.

    I cleared up a guild spot or you can post the training discord channel here?

    Im assuming youre able to help, you make it sound super simple. The last 10 or so people who said it was easy refused to post this channel and refused to take first timers but maybe you're different?

    Sure, my main guild I'm in is Karma Initiative, the EU reddit GW2 guild. We have our raid trainings usually every Sunday at 8 p.m. CET (GMT+1).

    Send me a message in game if you are playing on EU servers. We usually decide after each raid training on what we will run the next week and cycle through what is needed and wanted most, depending on how experienced or inexperienced the majority of participants is (ranging all the way from doing CMs to common basics like early wings 1-4). Guild membership is not required for a couple of trainings, so no fuss there too.

    Raid training discord for EU: https://discord.gg/nZg52r3
    Raid training discord for US: https://discord.gg/SvsVzVQ

    As far as individual guilds, check reddit or these forums for Oceanic guilds. Strait from the Looking for Guild forum, 6th from the top:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/498/sea-ocx-partial-na-hod-pvx-equinox-solstice-time#latest

    EDIT:
    In our case we use discord. It is not required but very appreciated if people listen in (no reason to talk) since it makes explaining mechanics a lot easier. Other guilds might use TeamSpeak or Mumble.

    Just my luck that youre EU 😢

    You guys have Aussies over on the EU servers? Hmmmmm....

    We even have people from Afrika here (playing with 250 ping successfully in raids while we EU players sit at 15-50 ping :# ), though that makes more sense time zone wise.

    If you can cut out some time, give the raid discord a shot, or check in with an oceanic guild. I'm sure there is a ton of Australian players with similar problems (aka no designated oceanic servers :/ ). Trust me when I tell you, the entire raid "problem" many people see goes away with a nice guild.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    There's nothing to discuss about it. Selling raids or dungeons is bad.
    The raid community is small already and since training groups are much rarer in comparison, I think those greedy people should just be shut down, so the newbies HAVE to try.

  • Selling raids should have there own tab cuz it's getting out of hand.
    it's already hard for new raiders to get into raiding we don't need all the raid Selling spam.

  • Einsof.1457Einsof.1457 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    100% with ya...and if selling raid advertisements go into the wrong category (such as raid LFG) then that should be punishable somehow

  • Please see our Policy: Looking for Group (LFG). If you have comments about the policy or its applications, I recommend you share them in this thread.

    Gaile Gray
    Communications Manager: ArenaNet
    Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buckeye.9846 said:
    In this forum post from 2015 Gaile Gray say that selling posts in the lfg is allowed http://prntscr.com/lscmc2

    "Our policy: Players may use the LFG Tool only for the formation of a group.

    Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes. Doing so will result in an account infraction.

    You can help us reduce the spam and refocus the tool by reporting individuals who are misusing the LFG Tool. Simply click on the name of that player in your chat window, right click, choose “Report,” and then choose “LFG System Abuse.” With your help we’ll be able to keep the LFG Tool clear for your use in forming groups"

    However in recent responses by Anet GM's they have said this game is meant to be actively played, how is getting boosted in content u otherwise wouldnt succeed in count as actively playing. The people selling raids usually tell their customers to kill their char and they will do the raid themselves so the raid can be done smoothly. This is not active play and you are boosting your account with rewards you otherwise would not get.

    A big portion of the raid lfg and other sections of the lfg is filled with people selling clears, how is this allowed. RMT is a big no no for Anet and i'm sure some of the sellers accept real money for clears aswell.

    What do you think

    I don't see how what GM's said contradicts the policy ... whether you buy a spot or not, you are still actively playing the game. The only thing you get when you buy a spot is a much lower risk of failure.

    I don't see a problem here. I find the only people that have a problem with this are the people that simply can't afford the service and they tend to present a weak argument that no real player would buy the spot ... well SOMEONE is buying those spots, or people wouldn't be wasting their time offering the service in the first place.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    I do not like seeing sellers on LFG at all.
    I worked for my spot in a raid squad. A lot. Trained a lot, had to carry a lot of new players and also had to take kitten from rude commanders.
    I am seeing lots of players lately with plenty of LI and KP that have no idea whatsoever about most encounters. When I see someone pinging 250 LI and failing miserably at everything, wasting the squad's time, its a bit frustrating.
    I am pretty sure most, not all, of those people got their LI and KP from bought runs and now, having amassed those LI and KP think they can just join regular squads and be carried. "No one will notice"
    Anet not being clear with the rules, are actually allowing this behavior and it is a shame.
    I am not saying that banning raid sellers from lfg would fix this 100%. Also, it would be a bit too late now even if they did.

    Also, for those saying stuff like "whether you buy a spot or not, you are still actively playing the game. The only thing you get when you buy a spot is a much lower risk of failure." - most bought runs require the buyer to /cc. So no active play. Try again.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    I do not like seeing sellers on LFG at all.
    I worked for my spot in a raid squad. A lot. Trained a lot, had to carry a lot of new players and also had to take kitten from rude commanders.
    I am seeing lots of players lately with plenty of LI and KP that have no idea whatsoever about most encounters. When I see someone pinging 250 LI and failing miserably at everything, wasting the squad's time, its a bit frustrating.
    I am pretty sure most, not all, of those people got their LI and KP from bought runs and now, having amassed those LI and KP think they can just join regular squads and be carried. "No one will notice"
    Anet not being clear with the rules, are actually allowing this behavior and it is a shame.
    I am not saying that banning raid sellers from lfg would fix this 100%. Also, it would be a bit too late now even if they did.

    Also, for those saying stuff like "whether you buy a spot or not, you are still actively playing the game. The only thing you get when you buy a spot is a much lower risk of failure." - most bought runs require the buyer to /cc. So no active play. Try again.

    No need to buy runs if you can have a million KP just from doing the easy bosses and events every week. Weak argument. THey could have also faked it to get in

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    I am don't see any big problem wiht raid selling, realy some lazy people dont want change class, learn rotation, and for example focused on another game content, but they want close some Raid achievement list and pay 50-200g for that. Why not?

    If someone realy interested in raid he go training raids, make const pt, or use ds, cap kp and do it with other mainstream. But why we should dismiss fast close achiv for www player in ptv or celestial set?

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.