Map Events (or, lack thereof) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Map Events (or, lack thereof)

michaeldowling.4652michaeldowling.4652 Member
edited January 12, 2019 in January 2019: LWS4 Episode 5

The new story was really awesome, the map art looks beautiful, and I'm looking forward to the diviner's stats!

Speaking of which - did ANET make a decision at some point regarding the design of this new map, specifically to de-prioritize PvE events and meta? I ask, because the new map is really, really, well - boring IMHO - with a lack of things to really do. Yes, yes, I know, there's some collections. But the lack of PvE dynamic events is very obvious.

Was that intentional? Did the team run out of time and have to prioritize? Any chance of additional content getting added to this map before E6?

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  • @michaeldowling.4652 said:
    the lack of PvE dynamic events is very obvious.

    There are events all over the map, not including the meta. A lot of them requiring triggering an NPC first. There's a couple of escorts, a couple of defense missions, a couple of boss fights, a branded incursion.

    There are sections of the map that appear to be event free, but that's good in my opinion, as these are were the story takes place; it's a relief not to have to dodge foes or worry about participation in e.g. the forge room.

    So can you rephrase and perhaps compare to a map that you do like in terms of "enough things to do"?

  • Sure - maps as recent as Jahai Bluffs had a very healthy PvE event inventory, as did almost all of the HoT maps. You can use that as comparison. While I agree this map has some events, sure, the size of the map compared to the FEW events seems out of whack as compared to other maps. In addition, the difficulty of the current meta barely matches the difficulty of a champion bounty.

    I don't think my question requires re-wording - my opinion here is shared by a great number of other members of the community. Question stands, though I take your point in bringing up a point of comparison.

    Again, my question(s): did ANET make a decision at some point regarding the design of this new map, specifically to de-prioritize PvE events and meta? Did the team run out of time and have to prioritize? Any chance of additional content getting added to this map before E6?

    Thanks! :)

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I 100% agree it isn't as bustling as jahai or Sandswept and whilst I get it's a more isolated area, the size of the map notably feels even more empty and devoid of things to do.

    It lacks the storytelling as well. Look at the djinn chain in jahai buffs which is a great event and tells its own standalone story. Yes Thunderhead has events, but they are much more sparse and lack the kind of storytelling Anet are normally so good at, consequently reducing the overall depth in the map.

    I'd like to hear more about their change in philosophy for this map.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thats a very tiny number id say, esp stripping out the hearts and metas. It is a huge map i agree and i think its even bigger given what feels like a drop in the number of things to do. More likely, i am going to log in for the meta instead of pootling across the map like i would waiting for it to pop because there is less to engage. Even istan has lots of little things going on. Even Kourna and that was arguably the weakest received map.

    If you look at the hearts, their relevance is down on the previous episodes given there is much less to buy from the vendors. That discourages a certain amount of replay unless you want 5 branded masses.

    How many solo events are in there that in the open map in that list? Genuine question be ause i cant remember what is and what isn't. I exclude the graveling simply because that exists for a drop and not something to do whilst exploring.

    Number 7 though is what i am looking for, but its location, its timer and its difficulty means it is more if a struggle. In principle though, this is spot on. Perhaps it needed an escort lead in to help gather players.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    Thats a very tiny number id say, esp stripping out the hearts and metas.

    Can you identify a map that has the right amount of things to do and make the comparable list?

    I'm still having trouble understanding the feedback, because I haven't yet been able to get from A to B without running across an event (outside the parts of the map that are story-focused). Mind you, I don't have to understand it, but I think it might help ANet see the difference between what they tried to do (as explained above by @Clayton Kisko.5207) and what you & the OP would prefer to see.

    PS it's probably too late for LS4.6 and LS5.1, but probably enough time to impact what we see in LS5.2 and beyond.

  • @Clayton Kisko.5207 said:
    We wanted to create a cycle for players in such a way that they focused on the metas when they were active,

    On the one hand, I appreciate the idea, because it's good to keep the mapwide focus on events that need "all hands on deck" (or at least a lot of them).

    On the other...

    • There are two metas on the map, that each require committing about 25 minutes (arrive soon enough to find a 'good map', complete the relevant events, loot organization and be able to get to the important follow-up events). That leaves a scant 35 minutes per hour available for other stuff. (Even less for some who like to be 'early'.)
    • There's an account limit on the key rewards for the meta, so once someone has completed it, there's little incentive to do so again on the same day.

    As a result, I imagine that there are already plenty of players who are on the map and don't care about the meta. I'm sure they would appreciate having something to do besides map completion during the times of the meta.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Thats a very tiny number id say, esp stripping out the hearts and metas.

    Can you identify a map that has the right amount of things to do and make the comparable list?

    I'm still having trouble understanding the feedback, because I haven't yet been able to get from A to B without running across an event (outside the parts of the map that are story-focused). Mind you, I don't have to understand it, but I think it might help ANet see the difference between what they tried to do (as explained above by @Clayton Kisko.5207) and what you & the OP would prefer to see.

    PS it's probably too late for LS4.6 and LS5.1, but probably enough time to impact what we see in LS5.2 and beyond.

    I have done so in this thread already, but i'll be more comprehensive for sure

    There are times I can wander round without encountering almost a single event and the list the dev provided is further evidence why. I'm possibly more baffled how you are seeing them so often, but I didn't even see one yesterday outside of the meta. That is a tad unlucky, I admit but it is very spare of events and stripping away all the really good feedback about the map and the story, there is plenty of feedback showing that the map is event-lite in comparison. Feedback across multiple AFCs has been for more rather than less

    In comparison;

    • Bloodstone Fen. Pretty much impossible not to see one. A very small map, but you are constantly in amongst content. Now the tone is different in this map, but they are equally battlegrounds and I expect a bit more siege mentality in creating events given the raging brandstorm.

    • Istan. 2 metas. In between you will find events at all corners, whether it is the graveyard, the escorts, the branded meteors, the observatory defences and the various corsair events. Each telling stories, each with content no matter which corner you go to. Plus hearts, with more purchasables. On top of that we have multiple explorable items and chests to find in every nook and cranny

    • Sandswept. events everywhere. stories everywhere and the variation is staggering throughout. There's hunting, a series of events making up the meta chain for the Dhinn which tells a very unique story aside from the rest of the map. There's inquest battles, experiments, escaped creatures, battles against 2 enemy factions. Lots going on.

    • Jahai Bluffs. Another map full of different things in different parts of the map. An amazing story chain involving a branded Djinn which was simply exquisite storytelling. The false Joko events, the preparations against the Death Branded Shatterer as well as the boss itself. You had uniquely flavoured time-rifts which not only brought out flavour in the map, but tied directly into the story.

    Thunderhead is an OK map. It's reasonably pretty and is the site of rich, expansive history. But it is otherwise desolate. The Fortress doesn't need it because it has a lot of flavour and ambient activity. That is fine. The Top right has a meta every 2 hours. Not a great use of an iconic area, but the meta is decent enough. The South is utterly wasted. Yes we have the adventure and the meta and the hydra, but otherwise the entire south is largely wasted. If you look at even core maps, there is rarely wasted space. One thing Anet are good at historically is filling maps. You can stumble around almost any area and encounter things to do. This map does not do that for me.

    What could we have?

    • Something like the treasure hunts in PoF for archaeological finds
    • random solo events pocketing the sparser area, even if it's just the odd veteran
    • dredge are usually somewhat resistant to outsiders so perhaps we try to recruit or aid a hostile faction like we see in places like Caledon with the Hylek

    That's just 3 random idea thrown out in 30 seconds. Anet are more imaginative and creative and could think of better, but this map desp needs it in my eyes. I want maps rich in content, in dynamic events because that is what GW2 has been built on over 6+years. Most of LS4 has done it brilliantly and even for all the criticism of LS3, map and events were rarely the issue there either.

    For me, this just missed wide of the mark, everything seemingly stacked up for the end fight instead of utliising the map more.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    • There's an account limit on the key rewards for the meta, so once someone has completed it, there's little incentive to do so again on the same day.

    I really enjoy the metas on the Thunderhead Peaks map, but I do wish the deldrimor plate rewards weren't once a day. One thing that I liked about Domain of Kourna was that the meta could be repeated as often as we wanted per day for the same rewards. Already a couple times I've jumped into Thunderhead Peaks, saw a meta was about to start, and then realized, "Aw, I've already done that today I guess I'll go somewhere else".

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    I have done so in this thread already, but i'll be more comprehensive for sure

    I asked because I'm still not seeing an actual list of events. You mention a map name and talk about the tone, but the actual events aren't being mentioned by names. In completing Bloodstone Fen, I am not encountering events with greater frequency than when I'm in the new one (outside of during the meta). Looking at the wiki's list of events, there aren't that many: three ghosts, priests, jades, hablion, and the maw; several of them just continue for ages and ages. I don't find that makes the map feel more populated with events.

    I literally never notice meteors in Istan unless I'm opening up the map often, even as many times as I've completed the map. It might be going on, but it doesn't make the map feel more alive to me.

    I'm not at all against more events in the map. As I mentioned above, I'm not at a fan of the idea the meta means that everything else shuts down. I'm not even saying that there are 'enough' events in the map. All I'm saying is: it seems much the same as any other map, just bigger.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I have done so in this thread already, but i'll be more comprehensive for sure

    I asked because I'm still not seeing an actual list of events. You mention a map name and talk about the tone, but the actual events aren't being mentioned by names. In completing Bloodstone Fen, I am not encountering events with greater frequency than when I'm in the new one (outside of during the meta). Looking at the wiki's list of events, there aren't that many: three ghosts, priests, jades, hablion, and the maw; several of them just continue for ages and ages. I don't find that makes the map feel more populated with events.

    I literally never notice meteors in Istan unless I'm opening up the map often, even as many times as I've completed the map. It might be going on, but it doesn't make the map feel more alive to me.

    I'm not at all against more events in the map. As I mentioned above, I'm not at a fan of the idea the meta means that everything else shuts down. I'm not even saying that there are 'enough' events in the map. All I'm saying is: it seems much the same as any other map, just bigger.

    Bloodstone doesn't necs have more events nor did I say it did. It utilises more in relation to map size. Thunderhead is 3x the size and yet has a very low coverage of events. I'm not going to sit here and list every single map and every single event by exact name as comparison. But in a map like Bloodstone, you pretty much always with range of an event. Same with Sandswept, same with Jahai. Same with Lake Doric. Same with Frostgorge. Same with many, many more. Thunderhead to me lacks what they all have and after ep4, this felt a stark backwards step.

    If I did not feel this way, I wouldn't feed this back. My feedback is relative to what I see Vs other maps and I've extensively shown the sort of maps and events I use as that gauge

    Regardless, if you don't agree, you don't agree.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I have done so in this thread already, but i'll be more comprehensive for sure

    I asked because I'm still not seeing an actual list of events. You mention a map name and talk about the tone, but the actual events aren't being mentioned by names. In completing Bloodstone Fen, I am not encountering events with greater frequency than when I'm in the new one (outside of during the meta). Looking at the wiki's list of events, there aren't that many: three ghosts, priests, jades, hablion, and the maw; several of them just continue for ages and ages. I don't find that makes the map feel more populated with events.

    I literally never notice meteors in Istan unless I'm opening up the map often, even as many times as I've completed the map. It might be going on, but it doesn't make the map feel more alive to me.

    I'm not at all against more events in the map. As I mentioned above, I'm not at a fan of the idea the meta means that everything else shuts down. I'm not even saying that there are 'enough' events in the map. All I'm saying is: it seems much the same as any other map, just bigger.

    I think your just trying to be pedantic now. You know exactly what people like the OP or Randulf are saying.
    No one is going to sit down and write a comprehensive list of events per map to show your need for a comparison.
    Fact is Thunderhead Peaks, as beautiful as it may look feels a lot more empty and devoid of side story than most other maps I tend to visit and it appears that is the same feeling being echoed by others not just on here but within maps.
    The fact the metas are once per day but have an hourly cycle is proof enough there just isn't enough to keep players on map interested once map completion and exploration is done. Add to that a number of those events on the lists turn into one hit wonders once the achievements behind them are done, which starts to leave Node hunting and volatile magic collection.. which grows old fast. The metas take 20 minutes each give or take a few, and once your done with your one a day that leaves a quick flick through the catacombs for hidden chests then off again.
    My personal experience after the first week.. be sure to get into the main map or first overflow advertising for the meta, if you don't there is a pretty large chance it wont complete and this gets more likely throughout the day, especially after peak times come and go.
    But meta aside there does appear to of been a drop off in side story content being delivered this time, to me at least and what is there feels stunted and cutshort.. perhaps some of the stuff mentioned in the other thread regarding what has been cut out might allure to these feelings.
    The weapon collection is really all that is going to keep players coming back .. for branded masses and jewels, which is painfully poor when considering content replay value.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • @Bloodstealer.5978 said:
    I think your just trying to be pedantic now. You know exactly what people like the OP or Randulf are saying.

    If I understood, I wouldn't be asking questions.

  • Kraggy.4169Kraggy.4169 Member ✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019

    @Clayton Kisko.5207 said:
    I think we could look at the broadcast radius of some of these and increase them slightly to give better visibility of them. It could be that players are missing them when they are kicked off. It is a huge map so I wouldn't be surprised.

    Why make it a pain at all?

    Why not make zone events visible all over the zone, just what purpose do you think it serves not to?

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kraggy.4169 said:

    @Clayton Kisko.5207 said:
    I think we could look at the broadcast radius of some of these and increase them slightly to give better visibility of them. It could be that players are missing them when they are kicked off. It is a huge map so I wouldn't be surprised.

    Why make it a pain at all?

    Why not make zone events visible all over the zone, just what purpose do you think it serves not to?

    I personally kind of enjoy not having screen real estate taken up to notify me of a minor event that's all the way across the map.

  • @Kraggy.4169 said:

    @Clayton Kisko.5207 said:
    I think we could look at the broadcast radius of some of these and increase them slightly to give better visibility of them. It could be that players are missing them when they are kicked off. It is a huge map so I wouldn't be surprised.

    Why make it a pain at all?

    Why not make zone events visible all over the zone, just what purpose do you think it serves not to?

    There is a limit of events we would want on screen at one time. I think after 4, the UI gets all wonky. This would be for players who have dailies up, and tracking achievements, ect.

  • Taelac.7036Taelac.7036 Member ✭✭✭

    Given the heavy nature of the story episode, I've appreciated that the map has felt a bit more forgiving as far as mob and event density go, whether it actually is or not. My characters and I have needed the time to process and reorient ourselves.

    Good luck, have fun.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taelac.7036 said:
    Given the heavy nature of the story episode, I've appreciated that the map has felt a bit more forgiving as far as mob and event density go, whether it actually is or not. My characters and I have needed the time to process and reorient ourselves.

    Agreed. Outside of the branded areas, there are some fairly large zones with just the occasional mob that are pretty and nice to explore (like the western side of the map, with all its frozen waterfalls and even the occasional tree). It was nice to just roam around and sightsee for a bit.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I have done so in this thread already, but i'll be more comprehensive for sure

    I asked because I'm still not seeing an actual list of events. You mention a map name and talk about the tone, but the actual events aren't being mentioned by names. In completing Bloodstone Fen, I am not encountering events with greater frequency than when I'm in the new one (outside of during the meta). Looking at the wiki's list of events, there aren't that many: three ghosts, priests, jades, hablion, and the maw; several of them just continue for ages and ages. I don't find that makes the map feel more populated with events.

    I literally never notice meteors in Istan unless I'm opening up the map often, even as many times as I've completed the map. It might be going on, but it doesn't make the map feel more alive to me.

    I'm not at all against more events in the map. As I mentioned above, I'm not at a fan of the idea the meta means that everything else shuts down. I'm not even saying that there are 'enough' events in the map. All I'm saying is: it seems much the same as any other map, just bigger.

    Bloodstone doesn't necs have more events nor did I say it did. It utilises more in relation to map size. Thunderhead is 3x the size and yet has a very low coverage of events. I'm not going to sit here and list every single map and every single event by exact name as comparison. But in a map like Bloodstone, you pretty much always with range of an event. Same with Sandswept, same with Jahai. Same with Lake Doric. Same with Frostgorge. Same with many, many more. Thunderhead to me lacks what they all have and after ep4, this felt a stark backwards step.

    If I did not feel this way, I wouldn't feed this back. My feedback is relative to what I see Vs other maps and I've extensively shown the sort of maps and events I use as that gauge

    Regardless, if you don't agree, you don't agree.

    I call BS on your statement...there isn't a single map that I can't get to and find multiple locations where I don't get event notifications...not,...a...single...one. That's why Ill keeps asking for a list of events, Thunderhead Peak has 13 events outside of the 2 Metas and 4 Hearts. Is it really that hard to list the number of events that are present outside of Hearts and Metas on the maps you're referencing, you don't even need to name them, just list the number, because that's then comparing apples to apples.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • @Randulf.7614 said:

    • Bloodstone Fen. Pretty much impossible not to see one. A very small map, but you are constantly in amongst content. Now the tone is different in this map, but they are equally battlegrounds and I expect a bit more siege mentality in creating events given the raging brandstorm.

    b60fb3cd7210d5eb47a468ad729685b0-full.png

    Also:

    • There are 0 Hearts in BSF 4 in Thunderhead
    • There are 0 Adventures in BSF 2 in Thunderhead
    • BSF has arguably 3 Meta even chains (exocism at night, hablion and the bloodstone Maw) other than that there are 6-8 events on the map accordign to the wiki https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone_Fen .
      'out of the Shadows' has 28 achievements () 'all or nothing' has 51 achievements (*for both: the numbers I am able to see in the ingame UI, may vary depending on the number of hidden achieves yet locked for me)

    => The reason why you see Events on BSF all the time is twofold: A) its smaller and hence has a denser Event population. B) There are a bunch of events that will just happen over and over after each other or even simultaneously. For me at least this lead to a fast burn out with this type of event (e.g. kill the displaced creatures). We also have to consider that obviously a lot of the resources tied to 'all or nothing' went into the amazing instances!

    All of this is not to say that its wrong of you to prefer Bloodstone. But if we just look at the metrics it's undeniable that Thunderhead has a lot of quality content and I think we can be sure that there will be more crowded maps again in the future.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Harrik of Avalone.1867 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    • Bloodstone Fen. Pretty much impossible not to see one. A very small map, but you are constantly in amongst content. Now the tone is different in this map, but they are equally battlegrounds and I expect a bit more siege mentality in creating events given the raging brandstorm.

    b60fb3cd7210d5eb47a468ad729685b0-full.png

    Also:

    • There are 0 Hearts in BSF 4 in Thunderhead
    • There are 0 Adventures in BSF 2 in Thunderhead
    • BSF has arguably 3 Meta even chains (exocism at night, hablion and the bloodstone Maw) other than that there are 6-8 events on the map accordign to the wiki https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone_Fen .
      'out of the Shadows' has 28 achievements () 'all or nothing' has 51 achievements (*for both: the numbers I am able to see in the ingame UI, may vary depending on the number of hidden achieves yet locked for me)

    => The reason why you see Events on BSF all the time is twofold: A) its smaller and hence has a denser Event population. B) There are a bunch of events that will just happen over and over after each other or even simultaneously. For me at least this lead to a fast burn out with this type of event (e.g. kill the displaced creatures). We also have to consider that obviously a lot of the resources tied to 'all or nothing' went into the amazing instances!

    All of this is not to say that its wrong of you to prefer Bloodstone. But if we just look at the metrics it's undeniable that Thunderhead has a lot of quality content and I think we can be sure that there will be more crowded maps again in the future.

    BSF was one of many map examples i used though. Yes its smaller and denser, but i addressed that. Perhaps it serves as the weaker comparison and thats fair. My main point is that there is little wasted space. That is part of what makes a high quality map to me.

    I dont agree Thunderhead has a lot of quality content compared to other more comparable maps though since this is the crux of why my feedback exists. Ive listed other maps as well to give a more rounded idea of why.

    Yes a lot went into the last instance, im not going to dispute that, but an episode should always be more than a single instance. For me this episode could have been so much more judging by the standards set by at least three episodes in the season so far.

    Im taking nothing away from those enjoying it of course.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • I think I might finally understand what you guys are driving at. It's not the amount, it's the density of events. You like the maps that have something going on all the time, everywhere (or nearly so). In that regard, Bloodstone Fen is a near-perfect example.

    So while Thunderhead Peak has a lot of stuff going on, it's really spread out. And some of it requires triggering this or that, so that there are periods of relative calm. I would agree that more stuff going on more often in more locations would thematically fit better. Especially since the devs have commented on how some decisions were made to the focus on "getting those dragonblood spears built ASAP."

    (Of course, some people like that this map gives us room to stop and smell the ... um, frosted roses, explore, and there isn't a constant pressure to rush rush rush outside of participating in the actual events. For me, I think it's good to have a mix of different sorts of maps. I don't think it's essential to be lockstep with the lore, if it gets in the way of offering a diversity of challenges within and across the maps.)

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Partly. Its about content. Im all for stopping and admiring the roses, but that doesnt go hand in with empty maps devoid of lots to do long term. Content and events does not mean filling a map with mobs and battles and bosses. Events and content can form so many different things, but Thunderhead is noticeably lacking and is under utilisied for such a large map.

    To build a map as rich and big as Thunderhead/Deldrimor and then pass off not putting stuff in as “getting the bloodspears asap” doesnt strike me as the right design philosophy. If that was the case, it might as well have been no map or a very small map with focus only on this.

    The whole point is that maps should tell their own stories complimenting or independently from the story itself. GW2s strength is even when it doesnt have much going on, it can new and interesting stand alone stories we csn come back to long after the main story. Thunderhead simply chooses to mostly disregard that outside of some isolated pockets.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Harrik of Avalone.1867Harrik of Avalone.1867 Member ✭✭
    edited January 18, 2019

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    BSF was one of many map examples i used though. Yes its smaller and denser, but i addressed that. Perhaps it serves as the weaker comparison and thats fair. My main point is that there is little wasted space. That is part of what makes a high quality map to me.

    I can understand this up to a point. But similar to how having intricate maps that force you to actually try and understand the map to navigate it (e.g. TD, Draconis Mons) is a quality I look for in Maps it should be understood that a) not everyone values the same in maps and b) not all maps should be made from the sam Formular. I personally find BSF too event crowded, especially since many of the events are copies of each other.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont agree Thunderhead has a lot of quality content compared to other more comparable maps though since this is the crux of why my feedback exists. Ive listed other maps as well to give a more rounded idea of why.

    I get that you say that there is not enough content (as stated before I think this is more a question of density and you seem to agree, so lets leave this for now), but is your issue as well with the contents quality?

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Yes a lot went into the last instance, im not going to dispute that, but an episode should always be more than a single instance. For me this episode could have been so much more judging by the standards set by at least three episodes in the season so far.

    Not only into the last instance. The new visit to Glints lair, the branding of glint… Any one of them could have been an absolute highlight instance, say, in Season 3. This time we got all three in 1!

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Harrik of Avalone.1867 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    BSF was one of many map examples i used though. Yes its smaller and denser, but i addressed that. Perhaps it serves as the weaker comparison and thats fair. My main point is that there is little wasted space. That is part of what makes a high quality map to me.

    I can understand this up to a point. But similar to how having intricate maps that force you to actually try and understand the map to navigate it (e.g. TD, Draconis Mons) is a quality I look for in Maps it should be understood that a) not everyone values the same in maps and b) not all maps should be made from the sam Formular. I personally find BSF too event crowded, especially since many of the events are copies of each other.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I dont agree Thunderhead has a lot of quality content compared to other more comparable maps though since this is the crux of why my feedback exists. Ive listed other maps as well to give a more rounded idea of why.

    I get that you say that there is not enough content (as stated before I think this is more a question of density and you seem to agree, so lets leave this for now), but is your issue as well with the contents quality?

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Yes a lot went into the last instance, im not going to dispute that, but an episode should always be more than a single instance. For me this episode could have been so much more judging by the standards set by at least three episodes in the season so far.

    Not only into the last instance. The new visit to Glints lair, the branding of glint… Any one of them could have been an absolute highlight instance, say, in Season 3. This time we got all three in 1!

    Without derailing into other topics, i can only cite the finale as a highlight. I think ive detailed in other threads my more detailed feedback on why a lot of the episode missed the mark for me personally.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭
    edited January 19, 2019

    @Clayton Kisko.5207 said:

    @Kraggy.4169 said:

    @Clayton Kisko.5207 said:
    I think we could look at the broadcast radius of some of these and increase them slightly to give better visibility of them. It could be that players are missing them when they are kicked off. It is a huge map so I wouldn't be surprised.

    Why make it a pain at all?

    Why not make zone events visible all over the zone, just what purpose do you think it serves not to?

    There is a limit of events we would want on screen at one time. I think after 4, the UI gets all wonky. This would be for players who have dailies up, and tracking achievements, ect.

    Sometimes, on any map, I can get frustrated by not being able to find events, getting to events at a point in time past being able to succeed (😡 timers...), and (if using the content guide) getting to events just after they complete (or watching the content guide bounce around unpredictably).
    Is there any ideas, beyond the content guide, and radius visibility changes, to make events more coherent in following them? Such as using more event chains or strategically scheduling them so that players, can move from one to another more seamlessly?
    Right now scouts exist to point out hearts. But, when we first got mounts, I had the thought, wouldn't it be great if scouts mounted up and chased down events, with some sort of icon on the map, acting as players sometimes do with commander tags.
    Not sure what is feasible, but I have always felt that map events are somewhat unpredictable and can be hard to find.

  • @PseudoNewb.5468 said:

    @Clayton Kisko.5207 said:

    @Kraggy.4169 said:

    @Clayton Kisko.5207 said:
    I think we could look at the broadcast radius of some of these and increase them slightly to give better visibility of them. It could be that players are missing them when they are kicked off. It is a huge map so I wouldn't be surprised.

    Why make it a pain at all?

    Why not make zone events visible all over the zone, just what purpose do you think it serves not to?

    There is a limit of events we would want on screen at one time. I think after 4, the UI gets all wonky. This would be for players who have dailies up, and tracking achievements, ect.

    Sometimes, on any map, I can get frustrated by not being able to find events, getting to events at a point in time past being able to succeed (😡 timers...), and (if using the content guide) getting to events just after they complete (or watching the content guide bounce around unpredictably).
    Is there any ideas, beyond the content guide, and radius visibility changes, to make events more coherent in following them? Such as using more event chains or strategically scheduling them so that players, can move from one to another more seamlessly?
    Right now scouts exist to point out hearts. But, when we first got mounts, I had the thought, wouldn't it be great if scouts mounted up and chased down events, with some sort of icon on the map, acting as players sometimes do with commander tags.
    Not sure what is feasible, but I have always felt that map events are somewhat unpredictable and can be hard to find.

    I think what you described above are great ideas that are incorporated in maps currently, even in Thunderhead Peaks itself. I think learning the those cycles would be the important part and once that cycle is known it will feel more predictable. The other mechanic we have used in the past that could also help is the idea of an event crier. These NPCs call out to the player and let them know the status of events and where they are.

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