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sereniity seven.5603
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Gw1 had the market right !
sereniity seven.5603
Member ✭✭
I think the auction house ruined the game . Anet should tear down the auction house and use the old gw1 trade method of npc and player to player trades . Or if anything update the materials in the items . Give players a reason to farm old and newer zones . It’s 2019 come on now you can do it !
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Oh, please. No, do not remove the Trading Post, ArenaNet. I would never want to have to experience Spamadan, again.
So you would rather have people blob around all day in Istan? It’s worse then spamadan . At least you had productive trade chats unlike zombies killing over and over and flooding the markets> @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
Why? In what way did the TP ruin the game and what would the improvement be if they got rid of it?
I play both games and I can't say I've ever missed GW1's trade system. I have a bank tab full of stuff I could sell in GW1 but I don't because the idea of spending my time standing in Kamadan spamming chat and hoping a buyer happens to be online at the same time and happens to see my advert and decide it's the one they want is really not appealing. It's so much nicer to be able to list it and then get on with actually playing the game instead of waiting for it to sell.
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And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams,
And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek,
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My only issue is the rate of the listing fee. I have some items that goes for almost 30g to list, so it just sits in my bank.
Fàther (TK)
Tactical Killers
Server(DR)
That's to discourage people from keeping relisting itens everytime they get undercut... Principally TP bots.
If you really wanted to sell your 300g item, you would just list it and forget it exist.
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Then it should be a "relisting" penalty. Goes up each time you list the same item or a penalty for unlisting it, lol.
Fàther (TK)
Tactical Killers
Server(DR)
Well, it isn't just a listing fee. Combined with the 5% sales tax, it's part of the biggest gold sink GW2 has. Without it the game would have hyperinflation and sooner or later everyone would use Globs of Ectoplasm as currency.
Another option would be to change the 10% listing fee into a 10% unlisting fee and raising the sales tax from 5% to 15%. The amount of gold that gets removed from the game would stay the same, but you wouldn't need to pay the 10% upfront anymore. This could help people who don't have the cash to pay the listing fee.
No skin should be exclusive to gem-store rng boxes.
What really happened with mount skins
You realize that the way loot and the open world works (versus the instanced system in GW1) has way more to do with the issues you are bringing up instead of the TP right?
Trade chat spam is a cancer of the past, thankfully. It was not productive, it was a necessary evil and only of use to hardcore traders. That is not even getting into how inefficient it is with a player base as big as in GW2 with an open world.
You don't get back your 5% listing fee. That is the penalty.
You might want to explain why you think it's bad for the game.
There are already reasons to farm, both old and new zones.
GW2 has the market absolutely right, because everyone in the game participates in the same market. In GW1, there was no way to know what "market rate" was unless you parked a toon in Spamadan and read the relevant GW2 Guru threads (in the game's heyday, you also had to park in GToB, LA, and Cantha). All of the issues that people love to complain about in GW2 were worse: flipping was trivial and happened regularly. It was easy to deceive people on price, even for commonly traded commodities. (And that's even without considering outright scams.)
GW1 had a more social marketplace and I do miss that. (Although bartering does take place in r/gw2exchange and its associate Discord community.)> @Jeknar.6184 said:
30g listing fee means selling the item for 600g (not 300g). And it's there for several reasons:
The exchange fee is the primary gold sink in the game. In GW1, flipping did nothing for the economy, except transfer wealth from the less market-savvy (or less patient) player to the patient ones. In GW2, it helps sink enormous amounts of gold from the economy. (There might be reasons to dislike or distrust the practice; just don't ignore the benefits it has.)
"Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer
This is a weird one for me.
Trading post is just so convenient that I wouldn't ever give it up..
On the other hand OP is absolutely right, all the QoL tools in GW2 did kill most of the community aspect of the game. You can sit in a full LA district and nobody will say a thing in chat for half and hour.. GW2 is rather antisocial for an MMO.
Every other game I play, I miss GW2's Trade Post. I never bothered trading in GW1, I rather sold most of my items to vendor to avoid the system. No thanks.
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What does that have to do with the TP? I think you have assumed incorrectly that people who farm Istan are 'flooding' the markets with all their stuff.
If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/
This is nuts.
I miss a lot of things about GW1. A flood of trade spam that scrolled so fast you couldn't read it is not one of them.
Anet regularly keeps a lot of options on the table.
Removing the tp, is not nor will ever be, one of them
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I really hope the OP is just a troll post. Not only would that not even contribute to solving the problem hinted at, it would create a host of new problems of which the revival of Spamadan, probably most strongly felt in DR, LA and any zone new enough would only be the most immediately visible one.
Or in short: no.
It's really not. Necessity promotes bonds and social interactions. I made a lot of friends in GW1 because they were regular sellers or buyers of stuff I was interested in, so keeping touch was beneficial for both of us and gave a reason to talk on a regular basis. How many friends have you made on the Trading Post?
Same reason why a lot of WoW players think the community died after the dungeon finder was added - no longer did you need to find a group, they put you in one at the press of a button and then everyone went their own way after the run was done. People no longer talked in dungeons and no longer felt the need to keep in touch with previous teammates because finding new ones was so easy.
The more QoL an MMO has, the more it loses its community aspect. GW2 has the most QoL = least social MMO.
What if I were to tell you I honestly never felt the community aspect in GW1, and that GW2 has allowed me to be more social than GW1 ever did?
Let me go back to my first encounter with this franchiase: The first GW1 game I bought was Nightfall, and not long afterwards Eye of the North was released. Had I bought the games when they were released I might've been more social in-game, however when I started playing Nightfall and all the other expansions I was more interested in this new world and lore than the community, so I never joined a guild. I wasn't a sociable player.
What was in fact worse was that large amount of the content in GW1 is something you can basically do yourself. And so I never needed other players as pillars of support when I played, other than someone who could run the Great Destroyer or other missions on Hard difficulty.
The only times I got to be social and interact with other player was when I wrote "wts, wtb, selling, wtt" and so on... Not very sociable, if you ask me.
Don't get me wrong: I absolutely love GW1 and played it constantly! I adored the world of Tyria, and I'm annoyed by the fact I basically just need the obsidian armor to get God Walking Among Mere Mortals >.<
I believe its because of the QoL Anet has added that I feel this game has made me more sociable. I've joined multiple guilds, and now I look back and ask myself why I never joined a guild back in GW1.
I do agree that sometimes LA can feel a bit silent at times. On the other hand, its not all the time I really want to talk to players. Perhaps I'm watching a Youtube video about pandas being extremely cute, or maybe I'm just looking through the different outfits and dyes trying to decide if I should fashion my alt differently or keep what I'm currently wearing.
GW2 allows me, personally, to be free from only seeing or typing "wts, wtb, ..." and instead explore Tyria, craft new weapons or armor, gather loot and achievement. And there is often a player or two nearby. Do we talk beside "ty" and replying "yw" after rezzing each other? Not necessarily, but the fact they're there playing besides me or just crossing my path gives me a greater feeling of GW2 presenting far more opportunities to strike up a conversation then GW1 ever did.
This is just from my perspective, so take it with a grain of salt. Should Anet remove TP in favor of player trading system similar or identical to the one we saw in GW1? Personally, would never suggest the idea. That said if Anet decide to update or alter it because its something they've wanted to do: by all means, feel free to update it. Anything can be improved.
I miss player to player trading. It was a fun social aspect of gw1 where I met a number of friends. I also would sell below market value to players who seemed nice and appreciative. I felt that they were more likely to value an item if they paid for it, even at a fraction of market value. Not really much of an option in gw2 so I restrict myself to gifting guildies and RL friends. Too bad, IMO.
The TP is the biggest gold sink of the game, so no.
Logging out forever.
The way gw2's economy works, I think OP has a point. Because in this game, you dont farm directly for stuff, you farm for gold to buy whatever stuff you need from the TP. So you dont need to farm around the world in different places, you farm the most profitable ones.
I wouldnt blame the TP, its more about how its set up to make buying gems more attractive so Anet can make more money.
The OP didn't bring that up at all. They brought up economic reasons to bring back P2P trading, which turn out to be misinformed at best.
As I wrote above, I do miss the social aspects of bartering, but those are restricted to the small fraction of the community that actually likes thinking about how to get good deals. It's not enough of a reason to bring back GW1's marketplace, even ignoring the economics & player protections.
I'm not familiar enough with WoW's dungeon community to have an opinion about the impact of the dungeon finder. But surely, there are other ways to meet people, just as there on in GW2.
I don't think you'll find widespread agreement in any aspect of that. Not everyone agrees that GW2 has the best QoL, not everyone agrees it's the least social MMO. And even for those who might agree, it's not at all clear that there's a causal link between the two.
All of my close GW1 friends were made via GW1's marketplace (directly or indirectly, via friends of those people). In GW2, I had to find other ways to meet folks, which has included PUGging open world or instanced parts of the game, chatting in /map or /say, offering help, and (unexpectedly for me) via posting in the forums.
I do miss bartering, but it wasn't some magical or mysterious tool that can't be replaced through other means.
"Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer
Isn't that what guilds are for? Shouldn't guilds be the social linchpin to GW2? Rather guilds be that than something like Spamadan (which I never found all that "social" to begin with). Is it because the map chat in GW2 is devoid of buy/sell that the game appears antisocial to some?
Personally, I never found the player-to-player trading in GW1 to be all that social to begin with.
I am a very casual player.
Very.
Casual.
If GW2 was missing ways that promote bonds and social interactions, then their might be some validity of creating those things through buying/selling by removing or changing the TP. There is no lack of that though.
Not sure the OP has any point; he says we should do something about the TP, then makes some allusion to farming different zones and people mass farming Istan. Frankly, getting rid of the TP wouldn't change either of those things; seems to me he's just fishing for negative gameplay behaviours and with no logic at all, linking that to the TP to justify his view that the TP ruined the game.
This is the same guy that claims the gemstore "takes away fun" doing the same thing; allusions to some the idea that GW2 has no fun or challenges. Again, getting rid of the GS wouldn't 'add' fun or challenge to the game either. Same approach, same lack of explanation. The best part is that the OP just throws the idea out and retreats from the thread without further contribution or discussion.
Reality check for the OP: GS isn't going away, TP isn't going away either.
If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/
The TP is not the issue. GW1 could've had an auction house and still have a reason to go to zones because the loot was set up entirely differently in that game. GW2 loot tables only really matter to things like collections. Let's be honest, people go to Tequatl for a bloody spoon.
So I think that you are blaming the wrong thing for the problem you refer to.
"In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano
Nah.. I remember spending a lot of hours standing in town trying to sell stuff.. it was not fun.
I'm not totally against the old trade system though.. having a direct trading option with another play would be useful in some cases but it would undermine the trading post.. we'd probably end up seeing a lot of direct trading causing certain items to spike in price and some possibly becoming unavailable entirely.
The two biggest problems I have with the trading post in Gw2 are
1. The over abundance of account bound items that cannot be sold or bought on the kitten thing >.<
2. There are far too many items on the trading post that are under the minimum sell price for that item thus when selling them myself I get a greyed out sell now option which interupts my quick sell process and making the TP annoying to use.
Anet should remove listings under their minimum sale price so the latter problem stops being one.
As for the account bound items.. some do make sense while others only make sense for a time after they were implemented.
For example.. There is absolutely no reason why Lumps of Mithrilium etc still need to be locked behind a daily timegate..
There is no reason why it should still force players to spend a whole week making Mawdry..
There's no reason why Bloodstone Dust etc is not tradable..
There is no reason why LWS3 items like Blood Rubies, Jade Shards, Fresh Winterberry's etc and even earlier LWS4 items like Kralkanite ore should be untradable so long after they were introduced..
A lot of these things are untradable at first to stop more wealthy players just buying up what they need to make entire new sets etc.
But after a while when players move on to new maps and new rewards.. newer players or those who are lagging behind or go back to older content many months later find themselves being significantly restricted by the fact that they potentially have to farm thousands of these items in maps that may or may not even be populated anymore with potental daily meta farms running in timeframes that they are unable to log in due to work etc.
This often puts people in the mindset of giving up on something entirely because of how much work they are forced to do to complete something.
The Astril and Stellar weapons in Istan are a good example of a massive sink requirement on an account bound item (Kralkanite ore)
10 ore for the Kralkanite ingot recipie
160 ore for all the Astril weapon recipies
8000 ore for all the Astril weapons
400 ore for all the Stellar weapon recipies
another 8000 ore for all the Stellar weapons.
That's a hell of a lot of farming needed for an account bound resource..
Oh yeah and the maps 3 big meta events that give 15 ore each only do so once a day per account..
So you can make about 120 ore per day if you do the 3 meta's and heart venders should you have the karma reserves to buy the daily bundles from them.
As well as a few ores here and there from supply chests, caches etc..
That's still months of daily farming just for a resource that really doesn't need to be account bound anymore.
talk about nostalgia tinted glasses
I Have No friends, so I Must pug
I wouldnt mind if it was easier to go out and gather whatever I needed to craft my armor. And though there are ways to do so if you know where to look, it still takes a lot more time then simply join some farm and sell the loot. On the TP. And then buy the blood or totems or whatever you need. On the TP.
It isnt anything wrong with TP, it is how more or less everything is supposed to go through gold first.
I dont think there is a right or a wrong way to it, different people like different things and it is what it is.
I would like if the TP wasnt so heavily intergrated (in lack of a better word) in everything, but I rather keep it like it is if the alternative is no TP.
ESO is without a TP, and I just dont bother with buying and selling there. But I dont need to, as I have been able to craft whatever I want because I can find most of what I need out in the world.
Hell no, selling in GW1 was time consuming and cities were just mass spamathons
I think most people who played GW1 or any other MMO like of old has these nostalgic memories of trading, be it getting really good deals, making a friend, or what have you.
But let's be honest, those were incredible rare, compared to the times you sit around for hours, bored out of your mind, spamming chat as fast as the filters allows with your little list of things to sell that day, however much fits into a message. It was dreadful and ate up entire days, which you just spend playing in GW2 instead, only stopping a moment to drop something into the AH.
As much as I get why some people are into trading websites and the thrill of screwing others over who have less understanding of the value of things, I'm really glad I don't have to deal with that timewaster in GW2.
"As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint
Personally, I enjoy free markets and merching since you can generally sell items to rushed buyers for a premium. But I could see how people prefer the trading post, which streamlines the service and ultimately brings prices down due to accessability.
Sure, I won't argue with what you would want. Mp point is that the OP seems to be pushing an agenda on established elements of the game based on nonsensical relationships. I mean ... does anyone honestly understand why getting rid of the TP would cause people to farm in zones that they aren't already doing it? That somehow, mass farming in Istan would disappear if the TP were gone? I don't see it.
The only thing that would happen if the TP didn't exist would be that people would resort to the generation 1 MMO approach to selling stuff ... spamming OOC and forum posts. I think most people don't find value in 'playing' the game like that. For some reason the OP thinks it's a good idea to take a few steps back in MMO evolution, simply because of nostalgia. Anyone that has experienced real generation 1 MMO buying/selling without a market-like structure knows why it's lunacy to push to remove the TP.
If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/
Also a lot of mid-tier weapons were effectively much rarer than the actual rare ones because no one was farming them.
And then there's the whole "using a crafting material as currency", where naked greed ruined the price of ectoplasm for people who actually wanted to use it.
The GW1 trade system was the wooooorst. I hated it with the passion of a thousand suns cause unless you were willing to waste a lot of time researching market prices and standing around shouting your offers into the void there was no way to actually turn your valuables into platinum. I still have some rares sitting in my Xunlai chest that I just couldn't sell back in the day but were too valuable (at least in theory cause if there's no buyer what value does it have anyway??) to just sell to the vendor.
GW1 has the by far worst trade system I've ever seen in an online game. First, it doesn't allow posting of items for later, you have to be there, spamming chat, in order to sell/buy. As if players don't have anything better to do with their time in-game. In other games with direct trading that I've played, they have global trade chat, something else missing from GW1. You need to be online, waste your time, stay on the same map, in order to sell/buy. The worst system I've ever seen.
There was no market in GW1. There were literally thousands of submarkets (the players) that did not have the ability to communicate with each other which meant that both buyers and sellers were always unaware of what should be charged for anything.
It was a paradise for scammers, rip-off schemes, and manipulators.
That anyone would ask for a return to that is highly suspect to me.
Spamadan was awesome because I bartered so many great deals. Trading was a game in itself, reminded me a lot of Diablo 2 trading.
MESMER MAIN SPOTTED
Is there any way to determine what the daily turn over , ie value of all goods bought and sold on the TP is ?
Be interesting to know as it would give some idea of the size of the GW2 economy.
The API will tell us how many items are listed for sale, how many offers made. GW2BLTC assumes (in its graphing) that when buy offers & sell offers disappear together that those represent actual trades. The API itself doesn't save that data.
This approximation works well for gear, which normally isn't traded quickly. It's almost certainly inaccurate for the purposes of your question in tracking commodities, such as ecto and other mats. (There used to a website that used the TP directly to track ecto prices and made a little graphic to show if the price was trending up or down. It was amazing how quickly it moved... and even that wasn't 100% accurate.)
tl;dr someone like @Silveress.5197 could probably whip together an approximation that would represent a lower bound (i.e. a minimum value of all goods bought|sold). My guess is that it could miss the mark by a lot, maybe even an order of magnitude.
"Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer
Wave2:Selling Saradomin Legs! 30k gp!
Had this topic come up within the first year of launch, I would be right there with you. However, I disagree with you now. I can get what I need, sell what I need, wham bam thank you ma'am.... no waiting around to find the right deal, no potential for scamming or thievery on a player level, the market decides the value, supply and demand. Once I figured it out, I have made a nice profit, to assist me in my adventuring endeavors.
Now the idea of updating mats in items, sure I could get behind that.
Sorry, don't need a reason to farm zones, unless I want too.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870
Interesting article from another developer trying to work things through about how easy to make it to trade. Also explains why almost all loot in gw2 with its efficient trading post is 2 blues and a green.
I totally loved sitting in a LA/Spamadon and spamming kitten over and over again for hours hoping to find that one buyer/seller for an item, searching 3rd party forums to find updated price guides from the last three months, and to watch to make sure the other user isn't trying to ducking scam me with an item look-a-like. No, No, No, NO! The TP is the best and most convenient method of trade and actually acts as a goldsink.
No, no it did not.
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I like the gw1 market, tho i dont really agree that the tp did anything bad for gw2.
people got scammed. yes i totally want to go through the hell of sitting and hoping.
This has got to be a troll thread.
sorry.
GW1 Days:
Players: Please make us an Auction house! Anet: No!
Players: Please make us an Auction house! Anet: No!
Players: Please make us an Auction house! Anet: No!
Players: Please make us an Auction house! Anet: No!
GW2 Days:
Anet: Here. We have an Auction House now. Enjoy!
Players: Please remove the Auction house!: Anet: WTH?
Anyways: AH should stay. But direct player-to-player trade would be welcome, but as addition and not as replacement for the AH for players who want to do tax-free trade at the cost of having to find buyers/sellers themselves.
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GW1 market sounds horrible. Even Korean developed free to play MMORPGs had the option to set up a vendor and Diablo II let you make an instance with a name to sell or trade.
Need to disagree with the OP on this one. The TP is a great feature in GW2 that I wish could have been in GW1 back when I played it. Back when I played GW1 I got frustrated sitting in Kamadan trying to buy or sell something, usually because it took so long to find a buyer or seller. Also I never knew if things were going for market value, and it was so tedious when people said "make offer".