Veteran Reward System - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Veteran Reward System

2

Comments

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭

    Some coins would get rewarded waaay too easily. First of all, IMO you could only get a coin from a specific source only once, by that i mean "Champion Risen Noble" would drop you a coin only once, doing vinewratch event would give you a coin only once etc.. (per year). This way people couldnt grind the same thing over and over, and would rather be rewarded for doing all kinds of events/content.

    Secondly, the amound of coins required for a reward should be increased ALOT. 1000 coins is nothing, it should be increased at least by 10x - 50x. It would require some testing how many coins can a person get per day, and its definetly more than hundred, more like around 500 (that is, if you nolife it, all day every day). Speaking of which, due to that there should also be a daily cap how many coins one can recieve per day, 50-100 would be a good number.
    Main point is that, those contracts and infusions would be otherwise WAAAAAAAAAY too easy obtainable. If you dont get them through RNG or TP, it should imo be a 1/2 to 1 year of work to get one.

    Some of those coin to reward ratios would need more tweaking, since 1 magnetite shard and 1 wvw infusion definetly aint worth the same (you get that 1 magnetite shard to just viping to VG in few seconds), but ofc numbers can always be easily balanced.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is well thought out but I can only respond with:
    If I see any more new things added to the game where I have to wait YEARS to start "earning" these "loyalty" items, I be 200% mad.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:
    So apparently I'm not a veteran because I'm not an AP hunter, although I've been playing nearly every single day since release. Ok.

    I’m not an AP hunter either. Just playing the game brings AP over time.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

  • Another vet here been playing almost since launch. There is no additional system that would entice me to stay if I didn't already like what I was doing. While I appreciate the effort you put into this OP, none of this would keep me playing longer. If fact if anything, it would be just as likely to drive me away depending on how restrictive the requirements for entry are (like adding in raid or PvP requirements).

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    While Rewards are important to retain players, they have to come hand in hand with content. Or put another way, Rewards are a good tool to attract players to content, but content is what keeps people around.

    Great post all over, but just wanted to highlight this part specifically. This is the crux of the matter.

    Personally I'm completely burned out of the game right now, and been for about half a year, no amount of rewards is going to get me back. (For me to come back, I either have to have had enough of a break that I miss the combat system which I consider better than most other games out there, or some kind of new content that interest me: hint, not LS, possibly Alliance mode).


    I've played since launch, and still likely wouldn't qualify for those requirements. And I probably never will, since I'm not really interested in doing the things I'd need, including bothering to hit 15k AP in the alternative variant. Because all of this just feels like a titanic grind, and I hate grinding, I'm allergic to it.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    Currently playing: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (way too much), Guild Wars 1: Pre-Searing

  • What, exactly, are Core Map Meta Events? What's the Meta Event for Queensdale or Brisban Wildlands, for example? (Sorry if that's an ignorant question; I just can't place the 'Meta' for some of the maps. For Queensdale, is it just killing off those few Tamini?) Must one do every part of it in order, or can the separate events that make up the Meta be done at any time; alternatively, does just part of it suffice?
    What qualifies as Core Maps? Only those required for World Map Completion, or does it include Season 1 and Season 2 maps?

    Do these proposed Vendors for any of the separate areas of play all offer the same wares? Or would one be required to unlock each one separately to access their particular wares?

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @joneirikb.7506 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    While Rewards are important to retain players, they have to come hand in hand with content. Or put another way, Rewards are a good tool to attract players to content, but content is what keeps people around.

    Great post all over, but just wanted to highlight this part specifically. This is the crux of the matter.

    Personally I'm completely burned out of the game right now, and been for about half a year, no amount of rewards is going to get me back. (For me to come back, I either have to have had enough of a break that I miss the combat system which I consider better than most other games out there, or some kind of new content that interest me: hint, not LS, possibly Alliance mode).


    I've played since launch, and still likely wouldn't qualify for those requirements. And I probably never will, since I'm not really interested in doing the things I'd need, including bothering to hit 15k AP in the alternative variant. Because all of this just feels like a titanic grind, and I hate grinding, I'm allergic to it.

    Everyone wants new “content”. It’s kind of a given. Content takes time to develop though, so we are not getting new content shinies each week or month unfortunately...

    You do realize that the devs created a reward structure to encourage players to keep playing, participating and to keep content more relevant? The suggestion falls right in line with that, and clearly someone like you would benefit from a veteran reward idea like this...

  • Interesting concept, at this point its clearly a spit ball suggestion. A fairly well thought out spitball but probably needs meta data refinement that only Anet actually has. Kudos to the effort and at having a constructive suggestion that isn't a total gimme. Though I might suggest that instead of getting stuff that's already out there that these "prestige coins" (need a less in ones face name) get you a (few)unique skins. Lots of skins are locked behind specific modes of game play, you need do do fractals to get fractal skins. You need to do wvw (though not much) and PVE to get legendary weapons, Raids to Get legendary armor, etc. If you had veteran sets of armor (not outfit) per type and a set weapons that were achieved through this method that were, um unique enough to warrant the grind and goal to get that level and have those already there something to do this could fly and give some long time players reason to play some of the stuff that was fun but now unrewarding otherwise with newer players. The skins would maybe need to be Black lion level but certainly NOT legendary level art and effects. Almost like those fan made weapons. I thought they were fantastic but easy to obtain. If they required this method to obtain them I'd most definitely have set a goal to obtain them.

    So ya to summarize, make the purchasable items skins unique to this reward system that are uniquely great but not awesome. The "Guild" in Guild Wars got replaced with "Gear" looooong ago; that's the reality. Also make sure its for vets not elites.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hazteur.8165 said:
    Interesting concept, at this point its clearly a spit ball suggestion. A fairly well thought out spitball but probably needs meta data refinement that only Anet actually has. Kudos to the effort and at having a constructive suggestion that isn't a total gimme. Though I might suggest that instead of getting stuff that's already out there that these "prestige coins" (need a less in ones face name) get you a (few)unique skins. Lots of skins are locked behind specific modes of game play, you need do do fractals to get fractal skins. You need to do wvw (though not much) and PVE to get legendary weapons, Raids to Get legendary armor, etc. If you had veteran sets of armor (not outfit) per type and a set weapons that were achieved through this method that were, um unique enough to warrant the grind and goal to get that level and have those already there something to do this could fly and give some long time players reason to play some of the stuff that was fun but now unrewarding otherwise with newer players. The skins would maybe need to be Black lion level but certainly NOT legendary level art and effects. Almost like those fan made weapons. I thought they were fantastic but easy to obtain. If they required this method to obtain them I'd most definitely have set a goal to obtain them.

    So ya to summarize, make the purchasable items skins unique to this reward system that are uniquely great but not awesome. The "Guild" in Guild Wars got replaced with "Gear" looooong ago; that's the reality. Also make sure its for vets not elites.

    I’m sure things like unique skins can be added to vendors too.

  • I'm not really suggesting adding the skins but Im more suggesting only that be it. I would be concerned for the concept to be dead on arrival from Anet otherwise. As I said I think the meta info that Anet has could sway it one way or the other but I think its in their interest to have these things that are out there only obtainable by rng or the gold/gem/cash synergy, cash being the key one. If there is an alternative way to get the items other than the trio it will reduce the value significantly therefore the desire to buy gems and turn them into gold which is probably a decent percentage of the use of gems and cash, while though I concede the actual gem store only items are probably the majority of their cash infusion. That's my concern of include access to some of those other nice things. Where as vet skins might retain the player base which is also very important aspect of the industry. Its a good idea just need to make sure its healthy for all.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hazteur.8165 said:
    I'm not really suggesting adding the skins but Im more suggesting only that be it. I would be concerned for the concept to be dead on arrival from Anet otherwise. As I said I think the meta info that Anet has could sway it one way or the other but I think its in their interest to have these things that are out there only obtainable by rng or the gold/gem/cash synergy, cash being the key one. If there is an alternative way to get the items other than the trio it will reduce the value significantly therefore the desire to buy gems and turn them into gold which is probably a decent percentage of the use of gems and cash, while though I concede the actual gem store only items are probably the majority of their cash infusion. That's my concern of include access to some of those other nice things. Where as vet skins might retain the player base which is also very important aspect of the industry. Its a good idea just need to make sure its healthy for all.

    Reward options and diversity attracts more players so we have to keep that in mind.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

    This would be better for sure. Every time a reward is locked behind raids, it still annoys me, because I don't enjoy raiding. I could raid. I'm perfectly capable. I just don't enjoy coordinating with 9 people. That is my casual guild mostly isn't interested in it, and I'm not a huge fan of pugging anything.

    One other thing. There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway. You can get really cool ascended armor sets from PvP for example, by PvPing. You can get specific ascended jewelry from completing dungeon weapons and armor collections. You can get specific armor skins unlocked by getting achievement points.

    Seems to me what you're asking for is already in the game, all over the place.

    So how is what you're asking for different from what's already there?

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Face it: retaining veterans in any game is always a lot more expensive than attracting new players. New players have a wealth of stuff ahead of them, while veterans have "been there, done that". As such, giving veterans an extra bonus that is kept from new players who participate in the same content is a very dangerous thing, as it'll likely do a lot more damage to new player retention (who end up feeling second class for not being rewarded the same when doing the same) than it helps with veteran player retention (who likely already have more stuff than they know what to do with).

    A continuous reward system with at best a slight increase for experienced players (e.g. more pips for higher wvw rank or buffs from omni potion for fractal veterans) is really the most balanced way to reward veterans while not making newer/less experienced players feel like 2nd class citizens at the same time. Anything more than that will quickly backfire in a way that is neither healthy for the game nor for its players.

    Additionally, a lot of the rewards you propose are restricted to specific content for the very purpose of incentivicing players to play that content, not to short-cut to the rewardes by grinding generic event a, b, and c. It's in nobody's best interest to have people grind Silverwastes RIBA or Istan farm trains even more because it turns out doing those events and killing the champs that turn up not only already gives the best gold to time ration but also showers people in prestige coins on top of it. There's no way that would make the game feel more alive or "veterans" feel more inclined to spend money on this game. It would on the other hand take a way a lot of incentive of dabbling in different areas of the game. Why should I try to look for a raid group if I could get all of the raid rewards I'd ever want from gathering prestige coins while doing other stuff? Why ever set a foot into pvp again if I could get all of my pvp rewards from prestige coins I picked up in pve?

    Signed
    a 6-year 30k ap veteran with most stuff on your list already checked and enough resources stored to get the rest (mainly the legendary backpieces, why get them when I don't even use my Ad Infinitum?) done on a moment's notice

  • Maikimaik.1974Maikimaik.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:
    So apparently I'm not a veteran because I'm not an AP hunter, although I've been playing nearly every single day since release. Ok.

    I’m not an AP hunter either. Just playing the game brings AP over time.

    But not 15 THOUSAND AP. 15.000. Do you realize how much that is?

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:
    So apparently I'm not a veteran because I'm not an AP hunter, although I've been playing nearly every single day since release. Ok.

    I’m not an AP hunter either. Just playing the game brings AP over time.

    But not 15 THOUSAND AP. 15.000. Do you realize how much that is?

    Title states "Veteran Reward System".

    I don't chase achievement. I play the game, and after 6 years I have like 24k just for participating. It's doable, just takes time.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

    This would be better for sure. Every time a reward is locked behind raids, it still annoys me, because I don't enjoy raiding. I could raid. I'm perfectly capable. I just don't enjoy coordinating with 9 people. That is my casual guild mostly isn't interested in it, and I'm not a huge fan of pugging anything.

    One other thing. There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway. You can get really cool ascended armor sets from PvP for example, by PvPing. You can get specific ascended jewelry from completing dungeon weapons and armor collections. You can get specific armor skins unlocked by getting achievement points.

    Seems to me what you're asking for is already in the game, all over the place.

    So how is what you're asking for different from what's already there?

    I agree about the raid stuff.

    The suggestion tackles a number of different things...

    • It adds more reward hook incentives to play the game for the veteran class, that has already been there and done that many times over.
    • This can be another tool in the dev toolbox to increase retention, content replayability and provide more value to veterans for participating.
    • It provides dedicated veterans an alternative path to earn "stuff" that is "locked behind" X, and an optional path to earning supplemental currency if the veteran chooses.
    • Chasing, and grinding out, specific currencies can be fatiguing at times and not really fun (the devs were aware of this and made improvements to HoT rewards as a result. A video statement following the increased rewards was something like this... "improved the rewards to value player time"... So it wouldn't be out of that line of thinking to toss a bone to veterans by letting them play more of what they like while lessening similar thoughts and feelings to this... "Every time a reward is locked behind" (----------) ", it still annoys me"
    • The reward design provides veterans a cleaner, and sensible, way to exchange one currency for another. Similar to these really neat QoL items the devs created for us... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter. This was also a really awesome and fun reward feature from black lion chests... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette
    • "There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway"... That is correct, but let's think about it from a different angle... I’m sure there are a lot of veterans who say this at various times… "Every time a" (currency or item) "is locked behind" (----------), it still annoys me". Especially when those veterans may be logging in the game daily and dread the thought of having to repeat the same content they may not like over and over and over… while they are sitting on tons of X currency but not enough of Y currency to get Z item. Again, these were really super QoL items https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette, and the idea just expands on those by providing a means for veterans to earn a universal currency that can be exchanged or traded in for something…

    … I've merely been looking at ways to enhance the experience of veterans who have remained dedicated to the game. Veterans are very important, not only as new player helpers, but as community leaders and customers who contribute to the overall health of the game. The reward designs are constantly encouraging players to repeat content so it's easy for veteran players to suffer from a shattered morale... I know Anet is always looking for different methods to keep the game exciting for us long term dedicated players too, and I don't see anything wrong with a reward boost aimed at players who have stuck with the game... Ill-conceived scheme this was not. Nor a plan to get "free stuff" as I was accused of earlier. It's about looking at ways to improve the experience for a class of players and to keep them happily logging in and happily participating.

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Do you have a better idea in mind to increase retention for veteran players?

    Retaining committed players is not and has not been a problem for Anet. They would focus far more on getting new players and keeping new players interested for more than a few hours. MMOs in general tend to attract a new player who tries it out for a few levels, then quits. I guarantee they are losing FAR more new players than 'veterans'. So why should they even worry about this?

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2019

    @Biff.5312 said:

    Do you have a better idea in mind to increase retention for veteran players?

    Retaining committed players is not and has not been a problem for Anet. They would focus far more on getting new players and keeping new players interested for more than a few hours. MMOs in general tend to attract a new player who tries it out for a few levels, then quits. I guarantee they are losing FAR more new players than 'veterans'. So why should they even worry about this?

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-path-to-the-desert-in-numbers/

    “We’re honored to share this journey with over 11 million players”

    ... There were over 11,000,000 accounts created since launch. There are not 11,000,000 players currently playing. I don’t know the monthly concurrency numbers, but I know for a fact that a mmo business looks for ideas to increase concurrency numbers, and somewhere in that 11,000,000 are gw2 vets...

    Yes, a business looks to add new customers, but they also work to keep current customers too... that’s how businesses operate, pay the employees and stay in business. Keep that in mind.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2019

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:
    So apparently I'm not a veteran because I'm not an AP hunter, although I've been playing nearly every single day since release. Ok.

    I’m not an AP hunter either. Just playing the game brings AP over time.

    But not 15 THOUSAND AP. 15.000. Do you realize how much that is?

    Title states "Veteran Reward System".

    I don't chase achievement. I play the game, and after 6 years I have like 24k just for participating. It's doable, just takes time.

    Then you most likely play the game differently than most other players. I've been playing for 6 years as well, and I just recently reached the 9.000 AP mark.
    You have a pretty weird understanding of "veteran player".

    I play the game and that's it... hardly consider that weird...

    I created achievement "milestones" for the purpose of this suggestion. I needed a clear way to differentiate between new players, ultra casual players and veteran players.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You do realize we already have achievement milestones OP? you are just trying to reinvent the wheel.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    You do realize we already have achievement milestones OP? you are just trying to reinvent the wheel.

    You do realize this suggestion is about a new reward system? Seems like you didn't bother to read and understand the suggestion.

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    There is no need for a new system, the one we have is enough, we have ap chests and daily login rewards.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    You do realize we already have achievement milestones OP? you are just trying to reinvent the wheel.

    You do realize this suggestion is about a new reward system? Seems like you didn't bother to read and understand the suggestion.

    I am quite aware, we dont need another as the existing one works fine enough.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Biff.5312 said:

    Do you have a better idea in mind to increase retention for veteran players?

    Retaining committed players is not and has not been a problem for Anet. They would focus far more on getting new players and keeping new players interested for more than a few hours. MMOs in general tend to attract a new player who tries it out for a few levels, then quits. I guarantee they are losing FAR more new players than 'veterans'. So why should they even worry about this?

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-path-to-the-desert-in-numbers/

    “We’re honored to share this journey with over 11 million players”

    ... There were over 11,000,000 accounts created since launch. There are not 11,000,000 players currently playing. I don’t know the monthly concurrency numbers, but I know for a fact that a mmo business looks for ideas to increase concurrency numbers, and somewhere in that 11,000,000 are gw2 vets...

    Yes, a business looks to add new customers, but they also work to keep current customers too... that’s how businesses operate, pay the employees and stay in business. Keep that in mind.

    10,000,000 of those accounts probably belong to me and my wife. Accounts created don't equal players. lol

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

    This would be better for sure. Every time a reward is locked behind raids, it still annoys me, because I don't enjoy raiding. I could raid. I'm perfectly capable. I just don't enjoy coordinating with 9 people. That is my casual guild mostly isn't interested in it, and I'm not a huge fan of pugging anything.

    One other thing. There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway. You can get really cool ascended armor sets from PvP for example, by PvPing. You can get specific ascended jewelry from completing dungeon weapons and armor collections. You can get specific armor skins unlocked by getting achievement points.

    Seems to me what you're asking for is already in the game, all over the place.

    So how is what you're asking for different from what's already there?

    I agree about the raid stuff.

    The suggestion tackles a number of different things...

    • It adds more reward hook incentives to play the game for the veteran class, that has already been there and done that many times over.
    • This can be another tool in the dev toolbox to increase retention, content replayability and provide more value to veterans for participating.
    • It provides dedicated veterans an alternative path to earn "stuff" that is "locked behind" X, and an optional path to earning supplemental currency if the veteran chooses.
    • Chasing, and grinding out, specific currencies can be fatiguing at times and not really fun (the devs were aware of this and made improvements to HoT rewards as a result. A video statement following the increased rewards was something like this... "improved the rewards to value player time"... So it wouldn't be out of that line of thinking to toss a bone to veterans by letting them play more of what they like while lessening similar thoughts and feelings to this... "Every time a reward is locked behind" (----------) ", it still annoys me"
    • The reward design provides veterans a cleaner, and sensible, way to exchange one currency for another. Similar to these really neat QoL items the devs created for us... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter. This was also a really awesome and fun reward feature from black lion chests... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette
    • "There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway"... That is correct, but let's think about it from a different angle... I’m sure there are a lot of veterans who say this at various times… "Every time a" (currency or item) "is locked behind" (----------), it still annoys me". Especially when those veterans may be logging in the game daily and dread the thought of having to repeat the same content they may not like over and over and over… while they are sitting on tons of X currency but not enough of Y currency to get Z item. Again, these were really super QoL items https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette, and the idea just expands on those by providing a means for veterans to earn a universal currency that can be exchanged or traded in for something…

    … I've merely been looking at ways to enhance the experience of veterans who have remained dedicated to the game. Veterans are very important, not only as new player helpers, but as community leaders and customers who contribute to the overall health of the game. The reward designs are constantly encouraging players to repeat content so it's easy for veteran players to suffer from a shattered morale... I know Anet is always looking for different methods to keep the game exciting for us long term dedicated players too, and I don't see anything wrong with a reward boost aimed at players who have stuck with the game... Ill-conceived scheme this was not. Nor a plan to get "free stuff" as I was accused of earlier. It's about looking at ways to improve the experience for a class of players and to keep them happily logging in and happily participating.

    Look I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying that this sort of thing is already in the game from my point of view. That is, I have plenty to work on. In a sense, achievement points are already sort of what you're saying. That is, you get them and you get rewards for them by doing other content. You want to add another layer to that and I have nothing wrong with that.

    Will that cause more players to stay longer term? Maybe some. But I'm not sure it'll have the affects you think it will have. I'm not against it. I can always enjoy more stuff. However, what you're talking about is exactly how I'm playing the game already.

    I'm not against the idea. But I'm not sure this is the reason why most people who leave, leave.

    I think more important than this is that the game finds better ways of teaching itself. Right now, it depends heavily on the community for that.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    What percentage of accounts have 15K AP? Of those, how many were created around launch?

    What percentage of accounts have 24K AP? Of those, how many were created around launch?

    Certainly this is information that the OP can get a hold of if they’re shrugging these off as nothing for veteran players.

    It’s also coming across that a player who has played consistently since launch with 10K AP who doesn’t chase AP is less of a veteran player than someone with 15K AP who has played inconsistently over the last three years who chases AP.

    Just wondering here... Do some of you peeps not know how to present an idea? If your goal was to present a new reward system for wvw or spvp for senior players then you would use ranks and requirements to present some idea of what you are thinking... Seriously, enough with the "oh so i'm not a veteran in your eyes" QQ you "elitist" swagger person...

    See what the devs did here? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistforged_Triumphant_Hero's_armor

    "In order to be able to purchase each ascended piece, the equivalent Triumphant Hero's armor piece must have already been unlocked. Additionally, players require the following WvW rank depending on the piece"...

    I didn't QQ about having spent a ton of time in wvw and not having the ranks to get gear, I just kept playing... And I certainly didn't accuse the devs of being "elitists" for requiring X rank to be eligible to get X gear...

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

    This would be better for sure. Every time a reward is locked behind raids, it still annoys me, because I don't enjoy raiding. I could raid. I'm perfectly capable. I just don't enjoy coordinating with 9 people. That is my casual guild mostly isn't interested in it, and I'm not a huge fan of pugging anything.

    One other thing. There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway. You can get really cool ascended armor sets from PvP for example, by PvPing. You can get specific ascended jewelry from completing dungeon weapons and armor collections. You can get specific armor skins unlocked by getting achievement points.

    Seems to me what you're asking for is already in the game, all over the place.

    So how is what you're asking for different from what's already there?

    I agree about the raid stuff.

    The suggestion tackles a number of different things...

    • It adds more reward hook incentives to play the game for the veteran class, that has already been there and done that many times over.
    • This can be another tool in the dev toolbox to increase retention, content replayability and provide more value to veterans for participating.
    • It provides dedicated veterans an alternative path to earn "stuff" that is "locked behind" X, and an optional path to earning supplemental currency if the veteran chooses.
    • Chasing, and grinding out, specific currencies can be fatiguing at times and not really fun (the devs were aware of this and made improvements to HoT rewards as a result. A video statement following the increased rewards was something like this... "improved the rewards to value player time"... So it wouldn't be out of that line of thinking to toss a bone to veterans by letting them play more of what they like while lessening similar thoughts and feelings to this... "Every time a reward is locked behind" (----------) ", it still annoys me"
    • The reward design provides veterans a cleaner, and sensible, way to exchange one currency for another. Similar to these really neat QoL items the devs created for us... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter. This was also a really awesome and fun reward feature from black lion chests... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette
    • "There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway"... That is correct, but let's think about it from a different angle... I’m sure there are a lot of veterans who say this at various times… "Every time a" (currency or item) "is locked behind" (----------), it still annoys me". Especially when those veterans may be logging in the game daily and dread the thought of having to repeat the same content they may not like over and over and over… while they are sitting on tons of X currency but not enough of Y currency to get Z item. Again, these were really super QoL items https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette, and the idea just expands on those by providing a means for veterans to earn a universal currency that can be exchanged or traded in for something…

    … I've merely been looking at ways to enhance the experience of veterans who have remained dedicated to the game. Veterans are very important, not only as new player helpers, but as community leaders and customers who contribute to the overall health of the game. The reward designs are constantly encouraging players to repeat content so it's easy for veteran players to suffer from a shattered morale... I know Anet is always looking for different methods to keep the game exciting for us long term dedicated players too, and I don't see anything wrong with a reward boost aimed at players who have stuck with the game... Ill-conceived scheme this was not. Nor a plan to get "free stuff" as I was accused of earlier. It's about looking at ways to improve the experience for a class of players and to keep them happily logging in and happily participating.

    Look I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying that this sort of thing is already in the game from my point of view. That is, I have plenty to work on. In a sense, achievement points are already sort of what you're saying. That is, you get them and you get rewards for them by doing other content. You want to add another layer to that and I have nothing wrong with that.

    Will that cause more players to stay longer term? Maybe some. But I'm not sure it'll have the affects you think it will have. I'm not against it. I can always enjoy more stuff. However, what you're talking about is exactly how I'm playing the game already.

    I'm not against the idea. But I'm not sure this is the reason why most people who leave, leave.

    I think more important than this is that the game finds better ways of teaching itself. Right now, it depends heavily on the community for that.

    I'm feeling like you, and others, would truly fall in love with the idea if it were ever implemented!

    I agree there could be more teaching tools, but we would always still need our new player helpers regardless...

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

    This would be better for sure. Every time a reward is locked behind raids, it still annoys me, because I don't enjoy raiding. I could raid. I'm perfectly capable. I just don't enjoy coordinating with 9 people. That is my casual guild mostly isn't interested in it, and I'm not a huge fan of pugging anything.

    One other thing. There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway. You can get really cool ascended armor sets from PvP for example, by PvPing. You can get specific ascended jewelry from completing dungeon weapons and armor collections. You can get specific armor skins unlocked by getting achievement points.

    Seems to me what you're asking for is already in the game, all over the place.

    So how is what you're asking for different from what's already there?

    I agree about the raid stuff.

    The suggestion tackles a number of different things...

    • It adds more reward hook incentives to play the game for the veteran class, that has already been there and done that many times over.
    • This can be another tool in the dev toolbox to increase retention, content replayability and provide more value to veterans for participating.
    • It provides dedicated veterans an alternative path to earn "stuff" that is "locked behind" X, and an optional path to earning supplemental currency if the veteran chooses.
    • Chasing, and grinding out, specific currencies can be fatiguing at times and not really fun (the devs were aware of this and made improvements to HoT rewards as a result. A video statement following the increased rewards was something like this... "improved the rewards to value player time"... So it wouldn't be out of that line of thinking to toss a bone to veterans by letting them play more of what they like while lessening similar thoughts and feelings to this... "Every time a reward is locked behind" (----------) ", it still annoys me"
    • The reward design provides veterans a cleaner, and sensible, way to exchange one currency for another. Similar to these really neat QoL items the devs created for us... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter. This was also a really awesome and fun reward feature from black lion chests... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette
    • "There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway"... That is correct, but let's think about it from a different angle... I’m sure there are a lot of veterans who say this at various times… "Every time a" (currency or item) "is locked behind" (----------), it still annoys me". Especially when those veterans may be logging in the game daily and dread the thought of having to repeat the same content they may not like over and over and over… while they are sitting on tons of X currency but not enough of Y currency to get Z item. Again, these were really super QoL items https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette, and the idea just expands on those by providing a means for veterans to earn a universal currency that can be exchanged or traded in for something…

    … I've merely been looking at ways to enhance the experience of veterans who have remained dedicated to the game. Veterans are very important, not only as new player helpers, but as community leaders and customers who contribute to the overall health of the game. The reward designs are constantly encouraging players to repeat content so it's easy for veteran players to suffer from a shattered morale... I know Anet is always looking for different methods to keep the game exciting for us long term dedicated players too, and I don't see anything wrong with a reward boost aimed at players who have stuck with the game... Ill-conceived scheme this was not. Nor a plan to get "free stuff" as I was accused of earlier. It's about looking at ways to improve the experience for a class of players and to keep them happily logging in and happily participating.

    Look I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying that this sort of thing is already in the game from my point of view. That is, I have plenty to work on. In a sense, achievement points are already sort of what you're saying. That is, you get them and you get rewards for them by doing other content. You want to add another layer to that and I have nothing wrong with that.

    Will that cause more players to stay longer term? Maybe some. But I'm not sure it'll have the affects you think it will have. I'm not against it. I can always enjoy more stuff. However, what you're talking about is exactly how I'm playing the game already.

    I'm not against the idea. But I'm not sure this is the reason why most people who leave, leave.

    I think more important than this is that the game finds better ways of teaching itself. Right now, it depends heavily on the community for that.

    I'm feeling like you, and others, would truly fall in love with the idea if it were ever implemented!

    I agree there could be more teaching tools, but we would always still need our new player helpers regardless...

    I would not fall in love with it, guaranteed. I don't fall in love with rewards. It's not what I generally play for. Obviously, everyone wants more rewards. Very few people will say no to more rewards. But rewards aren't what motivates all of us.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

    This would be better for sure. Every time a reward is locked behind raids, it still annoys me, because I don't enjoy raiding. I could raid. I'm perfectly capable. I just don't enjoy coordinating with 9 people. That is my casual guild mostly isn't interested in it, and I'm not a huge fan of pugging anything.

    One other thing. There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway. You can get really cool ascended armor sets from PvP for example, by PvPing. You can get specific ascended jewelry from completing dungeon weapons and armor collections. You can get specific armor skins unlocked by getting achievement points.

    Seems to me what you're asking for is already in the game, all over the place.

    So how is what you're asking for different from what's already there?

    I agree about the raid stuff.

    The suggestion tackles a number of different things...

    • It adds more reward hook incentives to play the game for the veteran class, that has already been there and done that many times over.
    • This can be another tool in the dev toolbox to increase retention, content replayability and provide more value to veterans for participating.
    • It provides dedicated veterans an alternative path to earn "stuff" that is "locked behind" X, and an optional path to earning supplemental currency if the veteran chooses.
    • Chasing, and grinding out, specific currencies can be fatiguing at times and not really fun (the devs were aware of this and made improvements to HoT rewards as a result. A video statement following the increased rewards was something like this... "improved the rewards to value player time"... So it wouldn't be out of that line of thinking to toss a bone to veterans by letting them play more of what they like while lessening similar thoughts and feelings to this... "Every time a reward is locked behind" (----------) ", it still annoys me"
    • The reward design provides veterans a cleaner, and sensible, way to exchange one currency for another. Similar to these really neat QoL items the devs created for us... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter. This was also a really awesome and fun reward feature from black lion chests... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette
    • "There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway"... That is correct, but let's think about it from a different angle... I’m sure there are a lot of veterans who say this at various times… "Every time a" (currency or item) "is locked behind" (----------), it still annoys me". Especially when those veterans may be logging in the game daily and dread the thought of having to repeat the same content they may not like over and over and over… while they are sitting on tons of X currency but not enough of Y currency to get Z item. Again, these were really super QoL items https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette, and the idea just expands on those by providing a means for veterans to earn a universal currency that can be exchanged or traded in for something…

    … I've merely been looking at ways to enhance the experience of veterans who have remained dedicated to the game. Veterans are very important, not only as new player helpers, but as community leaders and customers who contribute to the overall health of the game. The reward designs are constantly encouraging players to repeat content so it's easy for veteran players to suffer from a shattered morale... I know Anet is always looking for different methods to keep the game exciting for us long term dedicated players too, and I don't see anything wrong with a reward boost aimed at players who have stuck with the game... Ill-conceived scheme this was not. Nor a plan to get "free stuff" as I was accused of earlier. It's about looking at ways to improve the experience for a class of players and to keep them happily logging in and happily participating.

    Look I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying that this sort of thing is already in the game from my point of view. That is, I have plenty to work on. In a sense, achievement points are already sort of what you're saying. That is, you get them and you get rewards for them by doing other content. You want to add another layer to that and I have nothing wrong with that.

    Will that cause more players to stay longer term? Maybe some. But I'm not sure it'll have the affects you think it will have. I'm not against it. I can always enjoy more stuff. However, what you're talking about is exactly how I'm playing the game already.

    I'm not against the idea. But I'm not sure this is the reason why most people who leave, leave.

    I think more important than this is that the game finds better ways of teaching itself. Right now, it depends heavily on the community for that.

    I'm feeling like you, and others, would truly fall in love with the idea if it were ever implemented!

    I agree there could be more teaching tools, but we would always still need our new player helpers regardless...

    I would not fall in love with it, guaranteed. I don't fall in love with rewards. It's not what I generally play for. Obviously, everyone wants more rewards. Very few people will say no to more rewards. But rewards aren't what motivates all of us.

    Ok, but you might fall in love with being able to exchange "prestige coins" for other currency you may need at some point... never know!

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    You can already get extra rewards if you have been playing for a while. You get birthday gifts depending on how many years you've had characters for. Long time players have more magic find, karma gain, coin gain and exp gain than new players. Players who have been playing lots of LW3 and 4 had the opportunity to boost their rewards with karmic retribution and exp empowerments. Fractals have their own empowerment system for the hardcore fractal runners, so they can boost their reward gain. WvW gives extra pips to players of higher rank. There are probably more examples that I can't think off the top of my head right now. I believe that there are enough incentives to keep playing already.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

    This would be better for sure. Every time a reward is locked behind raids, it still annoys me, because I don't enjoy raiding. I could raid. I'm perfectly capable. I just don't enjoy coordinating with 9 people. That is my casual guild mostly isn't interested in it, and I'm not a huge fan of pugging anything.

    One other thing. There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway. You can get really cool ascended armor sets from PvP for example, by PvPing. You can get specific ascended jewelry from completing dungeon weapons and armor collections. You can get specific armor skins unlocked by getting achievement points.

    Seems to me what you're asking for is already in the game, all over the place.

    So how is what you're asking for different from what's already there?

    I agree about the raid stuff.

    The suggestion tackles a number of different things...

    • It adds more reward hook incentives to play the game for the veteran class, that has already been there and done that many times over.
    • This can be another tool in the dev toolbox to increase retention, content replayability and provide more value to veterans for participating.
    • It provides dedicated veterans an alternative path to earn "stuff" that is "locked behind" X, and an optional path to earning supplemental currency if the veteran chooses.
    • Chasing, and grinding out, specific currencies can be fatiguing at times and not really fun (the devs were aware of this and made improvements to HoT rewards as a result. A video statement following the increased rewards was something like this... "improved the rewards to value player time"... So it wouldn't be out of that line of thinking to toss a bone to veterans by letting them play more of what they like while lessening similar thoughts and feelings to this... "Every time a reward is locked behind" (----------) ", it still annoys me"
    • The reward design provides veterans a cleaner, and sensible, way to exchange one currency for another. Similar to these really neat QoL items the devs created for us... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter. This was also a really awesome and fun reward feature from black lion chests... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette
    • "There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway"... That is correct, but let's think about it from a different angle... I’m sure there are a lot of veterans who say this at various times… "Every time a" (currency or item) "is locked behind" (----------), it still annoys me". Especially when those veterans may be logging in the game daily and dread the thought of having to repeat the same content they may not like over and over and over… while they are sitting on tons of X currency but not enough of Y currency to get Z item. Again, these were really super QoL items https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette, and the idea just expands on those by providing a means for veterans to earn a universal currency that can be exchanged or traded in for something…

    … I've merely been looking at ways to enhance the experience of veterans who have remained dedicated to the game. Veterans are very important, not only as new player helpers, but as community leaders and customers who contribute to the overall health of the game. The reward designs are constantly encouraging players to repeat content so it's easy for veteran players to suffer from a shattered morale... I know Anet is always looking for different methods to keep the game exciting for us long term dedicated players too, and I don't see anything wrong with a reward boost aimed at players who have stuck with the game... Ill-conceived scheme this was not. Nor a plan to get "free stuff" as I was accused of earlier. It's about looking at ways to improve the experience for a class of players and to keep them happily logging in and happily participating.

    Look I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying that this sort of thing is already in the game from my point of view. That is, I have plenty to work on. In a sense, achievement points are already sort of what you're saying. That is, you get them and you get rewards for them by doing other content. You want to add another layer to that and I have nothing wrong with that.

    Will that cause more players to stay longer term? Maybe some. But I'm not sure it'll have the affects you think it will have. I'm not against it. I can always enjoy more stuff. However, what you're talking about is exactly how I'm playing the game already.

    I'm not against the idea. But I'm not sure this is the reason why most people who leave, leave.

    I think more important than this is that the game finds better ways of teaching itself. Right now, it depends heavily on the community for that.

    I'm feeling like you, and others, would truly fall in love with the idea if it were ever implemented!

    I agree there could be more teaching tools, but we would always still need our new player helpers regardless...

    I would not fall in love with it, guaranteed. I don't fall in love with rewards. It's not what I generally play for. Obviously, everyone wants more rewards. Very few people will say no to more rewards. But rewards aren't what motivates all of us.

    Same for me. It would do nothing to motivate me or factor in if or how long I play.

    Ive sadly seen a lot of long term players leave the game and none of them cite rewards as a problem or a factor. There are plenty of other issues that are above rewards which determine retention

    • game performance (constant disconnects, low fps, ridiculous effects blocking visibility)
    • Difficulty ( problematic to solve)
    • Quality of content and story (my issue at the moment)
    • neglevtion of game mode (wvw and spvp)
    • Perception of balance

    I would pick these 5 as more important for retention than rewards. We are well rewarded in this game in my opinion. People dont move to Teso or FF or any other game because they will be better rewarded, they move for either a new experience or to solve the above issues.

    Im obv not saying rewards arent important as new rewards bolster new content, but a reward track for vets as a shortcut for older rewards is not high up in determing retention

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Veteran player retention is important folks. I can guarantee there is a decent sized drop off of older players, and incentives to keep those players logging in are important from many different angles.

    Yes player retention is important. If they made completing a raid wing a requirement for being a veteran player, after the first raid didn't even appear for 3.5 years after launch, I'd feel completely disenfranchised. That's the kind of thing that drives people away from games.

    The small percentage of people that enjoy or are okay with raiding would possibly be okay with it. I strongly suspect you'd kitten off more people than help retain player.

    I've done almost everything on that list except complete a raid wing. So no, that wouldn't retain me. It would do more to drive me away.

    I have great news for you my friend! Read and be absolutely amazed AND astonished!

    "Alternative milestones based off of feedback...

    Base requirements that need to be met to unlock the veteran reward system AND a core item vendor...
    15k AP
    Core Map Completion
    Core Personal Story Completion
    Participated in all Core Map Meta Events

    To unlock SPvP items from vendor
    Rank 80
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ascension

    To unlock WvW Items from vendor
    Rank 500 in WvW
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer

    To unlock Dungeon items from vendor
    Dungeon Master Achievement (Complete 8 explorable dungeons.)

    To unlock Raid Items from vendor
    Complete each Raid Wing

    To unlock Fractal items from vendor
    Fractal Initiate (Complete each fractal scale from 1 to 25.)
    Fractal Adept (Complete each fractal scale from 26 to 50.)
    Fractal Expert (Complete each fractal scale from 51 to 75.)
    Fractal Master (Complete each fractal scale from 76 to 100.)

    To unlock HoT items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    HoT personal story completion
    Complete all Meta Events

    To unlock PoF items from vendor
    Full Map Completion
    PoF personal story completion
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Griffon_(mount)"

    And there ya have it!

    This would be better for sure. Every time a reward is locked behind raids, it still annoys me, because I don't enjoy raiding. I could raid. I'm perfectly capable. I just don't enjoy coordinating with 9 people. That is my casual guild mostly isn't interested in it, and I'm not a huge fan of pugging anything.

    One other thing. There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway. You can get really cool ascended armor sets from PvP for example, by PvPing. You can get specific ascended jewelry from completing dungeon weapons and armor collections. You can get specific armor skins unlocked by getting achievement points.

    Seems to me what you're asking for is already in the game, all over the place.

    So how is what you're asking for different from what's already there?

    I agree about the raid stuff.

    The suggestion tackles a number of different things...

    • It adds more reward hook incentives to play the game for the veteran class, that has already been there and done that many times over.
    • This can be another tool in the dev toolbox to increase retention, content replayability and provide more value to veterans for participating.
    • It provides dedicated veterans an alternative path to earn "stuff" that is "locked behind" X, and an optional path to earning supplemental currency if the veteran chooses.
    • Chasing, and grinding out, specific currencies can be fatiguing at times and not really fun (the devs were aware of this and made improvements to HoT rewards as a result. A video statement following the increased rewards was something like this... "improved the rewards to value player time"... So it wouldn't be out of that line of thinking to toss a bone to veterans by letting them play more of what they like while lessening similar thoughts and feelings to this... "Every time a reward is locked behind" (----------) ", it still annoys me"
    • The reward design provides veterans a cleaner, and sensible, way to exchange one currency for another. Similar to these really neat QoL items the devs created for us... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter. This was also a really awesome and fun reward feature from black lion chests... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette
    • "There are tons of rewards in this game for people who want to do specific content anyway"... That is correct, but let's think about it from a different angle... I’m sure there are a lot of veterans who say this at various times… "Every time a" (currency or item) "is locked behind" (----------), it still annoys me". Especially when those veterans may be logging in the game daily and dread the thought of having to repeat the same content they may not like over and over and over… while they are sitting on tons of X currency but not enough of Y currency to get Z item. Again, these were really super QoL items https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette, and the idea just expands on those by providing a means for veterans to earn a universal currency that can be exchanged or traded in for something…

    … I've merely been looking at ways to enhance the experience of veterans who have remained dedicated to the game. Veterans are very important, not only as new player helpers, but as community leaders and customers who contribute to the overall health of the game. The reward designs are constantly encouraging players to repeat content so it's easy for veteran players to suffer from a shattered morale... I know Anet is always looking for different methods to keep the game exciting for us long term dedicated players too, and I don't see anything wrong with a reward boost aimed at players who have stuck with the game... Ill-conceived scheme this was not. Nor a plan to get "free stuff" as I was accused of earlier. It's about looking at ways to improve the experience for a class of players and to keep them happily logging in and happily participating.

    Look I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying that this sort of thing is already in the game from my point of view. That is, I have plenty to work on. In a sense, achievement points are already sort of what you're saying. That is, you get them and you get rewards for them by doing other content. You want to add another layer to that and I have nothing wrong with that.

    Will that cause more players to stay longer term? Maybe some. But I'm not sure it'll have the affects you think it will have. I'm not against it. I can always enjoy more stuff. However, what you're talking about is exactly how I'm playing the game already.

    I'm not against the idea. But I'm not sure this is the reason why most people who leave, leave.

    I think more important than this is that the game finds better ways of teaching itself. Right now, it depends heavily on the community for that.

    I'm feeling like you, and others, would truly fall in love with the idea if it were ever implemented!

    I agree there could be more teaching tools, but we would always still need our new player helpers regardless...

    I would not fall in love with it, guaranteed. I don't fall in love with rewards. It's not what I generally play for. Obviously, everyone wants more rewards. Very few people will say no to more rewards. But rewards aren't what motivates all of us.

    Same for me. It would do nothing to motivate me or factor in if or how long I play.

    Ive sadly seen a lot of long term players leave the game and none of them cite rewards as a problem or a factor. There are plenty of other issues that are above rewards which determine retention

    • game performance (constant disconnects, low fps, ridiculous effects blocking visibility)
    • Difficulty ( problematic to solve)
    • Quality of content and story (my issue at the moment)
    • neglevtion of game mode (wvw and spvp)
    • Perception of balance

    I would pick these 5 as more important for retention than rewards. We are well rewarded in this game in my opinion. People dont move to Teso or FF or any other game because they will be better rewarded, they move for either a new experience or to solve the above issues.

    Im obv not saying rewards arent important as new rewards bolster new content, but a reward track for vets as a shortcut for older rewards is not high up in determing retention

    I agree with this. I also think this is generally a game focused on open world PvE and the people who want that in a game have far less choice. As a PvPer you might be more disappointed than I am. I'm mostly happy with the game and usually that's been the case, if not always.

    The thing is people are leaving ALL MMOs all the time for all the same reasons. I watch reddit and I see people leaving ESO and WOW all the time, and even FFXIV sometimes, which is supposed to be a pretty good game if you're into raiding and don't mind paying a sub. People I know have left Archeage and SWToR as well.

    Player retention is relative anyway. I'm sure this game lost a lot of players due to ascended armor being introduced and then gained some back over time and then lost some over the introduction of HoT. Those have been the big exoduses from the game.

    I'm not convinced that people that come here primarily for PVP are going to be happy long term, and I'm okay with that. Same with raids. It shouldn't be the focus of this game and if it's not the focus some people will be disappointed.

    But there are tons of games with both raids and PvP, and very few games that focus on the open world/exploration angle.

    As for the topic of the OP, again, I wouldn't mind getting more rewards. We all like rewards. But I'm not convinced that it would get people to stay that would have left in any great numbers. On that much, at least we agree.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    Here are some main points for players to consider...

    • Reward systems are essential. This also includes refreshing rewards for players who have been with the game for a long time and grinded out every zone, meta event, mode... over and over and over before...

    • Alternative, and optional, in-game achievable reward paths. There have been a plethora of requests for items to be earned through playing the game, not just through gem store methods or rng.

    • Boredom sets in due to repeating the same content, and doing the same activities, over the course of time. The players affected by this the most are veterans. The proposal offers a path for veteran players to earn a currency that can be exchanged for something else the player either needs or wants... This affords a veteran player the option to do MORE of what THEY like to do during THEIR game time, while still earning a current they might need or that item they might want.

    • I never assumed that rewards are he holy grail fix to bring back, or keep, droves of veterans. It’s obvious that new content, story, zones, balance patches and updates are just as important in the equation... This thread happens to be specifically targeted at making a better reward system, that offers a really nice QoL feature to it, for an essential group of players to encourage them to keep logging in and working toward things they may want or need. And yes, veteran players are important, and any improvements we make for them will be a net benefit to them and to the game... Some of you are underestimating the positive impact a reward system like this will have on seasoned players, and as a reward system for GW2.

    • This idea is also an extension of these QoL features that exist in the game... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Converter

  • Maybe i am confused, how is this better than the current ap reward system?

  • yoni.7015yoni.7015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    Maybe i am confused, how is this better than the current ap reward system?

    It is not better.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yoni.7015 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    Maybe i am confused, how is this better than the current ap reward system?

    It is not better.

    Do you understand the differences between the AP reward system and my suggestion?

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    This affords a veteran player the option to do MORE of what THEY like to do during THEIR game time, while still earning a current they might need or that item they might want.

    Nice theory, but unfortunately humans don't work that way. A sizeable number of the so-called veterans will just use it to power-farm whatever is considered the most profitable content of the time, to the detriment of not only their own enjoyment but also the health of the game population as a whole.

    I said it before: the game wins nothing from even more people grinding out events in the Silverwastes and Istan instead of participating in content all over the game world.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    This affords a veteran player the option to do MORE of what THEY like to do during THEIR game time, while still earning a current they might need or that item they might want.

    Nice theory, but unfortunately humans don't work that way. A sizeable number of the so-called veterans will just use it to power-farm whatever is considered the most profitable content of the time, to the detriment of not only their own enjoyment but also the health of the game population as a whole.

    I said it before: the game wins nothing from even more people grinding out events in the Silverwastes and Istan instead of participating in content all over the game world.

    That's not a "theory", that's a fact. If a veteran player earned an additional "universal" trade-in currency, for specific "things" like other currencies, that gives them more time to do things THEY want to do because they are still progressing...

    Players like doing different things and will keep doing them regardless... And who cares if someone farms or doesn't farm? What does it matter to you personally? Why would it matter to you if someone else wanted to play the game and go kill 1000 champions or complete 200 meta events to earn an account bound permanent banker?

    And this right here clearly tells me you didn't really think about the suggestion more "to the detriment of not only their own enjoyment but also the health of the game population as a whole.".

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.