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D/D weaver - Prepare to be refuted you naysayers


kornfanxxx.9143

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@kornfanxxx.9143 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:I have given D/D weaver an honest try before and I don't think it is inherently bad, however, it lacks a flow coming directly from the fact that you are locked from attunement switching for a few seconds after changing element, also, you are heavily locked into arcane for almost anything, more than other D/D builds.

It plays differently from previous iterations of D/D so it is unfair to compare the dynamicity between both, it is slower, does hit slightly harder at expense of small hit boxes and long casting times which lock you into animations, also, tend to be low in sustain compared to sword given that water #2 is vastly different in output healing, no dodging and locks you in animation for a long time, which makes you very vulnerable.

Perhaps the saving grace of the build is water/earth #3, but like many have said previously in the thread, it is hard to justify its weaknesses when its strengths are barely..... strong enough even with meticulous and near perfect-condition set ups.

give me a chance to upload some video with how I use the build before you pass judgement. i'll try & have something for you guys to watch up tonight. i just need to get some spvp footage and a few more wvw fights.

Sounds great, but I would wait until ranked starts to do that, also, please post the current rank at the time of the video. It isnt the same to fight bronze people with it, than plat people where the meta/skills are different. I'm actually trying to stay open minded about it, I want to be pleasantly surprised, who knows, maybe it works, but I wanna know if it is relevant to my rating or if it only works up to certain rating.

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@Fortus.6175 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:I have given D/D weaver an honest try before and I don't think it is inherently bad, however, it lacks a flow coming directly from the fact that you are locked from attunement switching for a few seconds after changing element, also, you are heavily locked into arcane for almost anything, more than other D/D builds.

It plays differently from previous iterations of D/D so it is unfair to compare the dynamicity between both, it is slower, does hit slightly harder at expense of small hit boxes and long casting times which lock you into animations, also, tend to be low in sustain compared to sword given that water #2 is vastly different in output healing, no dodging and locks you in animation for a long time, which makes you very vulnerable.

Perhaps the saving grace of the build is water/earth #3, but like many have said previously in the thread, it is hard to justify its weaknesses when its strengths are barely..... strong enough even with meticulous and near perfect-condition set ups.

give me a chance to upload some video with how I use the build before you pass judgement. i'll try & have something for you guys to watch up tonight. i just need to get some spvp footage and a few more wvw fights.

Sounds great, but I would wait until ranked starts to do that, also, please post the current rank at the time of the video. It isnt the same to fight bronze people with it, than plat people where the meta/skills are different. I'm actually trying to stay open minded about it, I want to be pleasantly surprised, who knows, maybe it works, but I wanna know if it is relevant to my rating or if it only works up to certain rating.

Agreed, ranked would be much more interesting. You can partly determine the skill of the player and the enemies (and allies) from watching the video, but proper setups are always more interesting. :smile:

Also agree with the scepticism, I only trolled with D/D a little and never liked it, but... well, still curious!

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@Fortus.6175 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:I have given D/D weaver an honest try before and I don't think it is inherently bad, however, it lacks a flow coming directly from the fact that you are locked from attunement switching for a few seconds after changing element, also, you are heavily locked into arcane for almost anything, more than other D/D builds.

It plays differently from previous iterations of D/D so it is unfair to compare the dynamicity between both, it is slower, does hit slightly harder at expense of small hit boxes and long casting times which lock you into animations, also, tend to be low in sustain compared to sword given that water #2 is vastly different in output healing, no dodging and locks you in animation for a long time, which makes you very vulnerable.

Perhaps the saving grace of the build is water/earth #3, but like many have said previously in the thread, it is hard to justify its weaknesses when its strengths are barely..... strong enough even with meticulous and near perfect-condition set ups.

give me a chance to upload some video with how I use the build before you pass judgement. i'll try & have something for you guys to watch up tonight. i just need to get some spvp footage and a few more wvw fights.

Sounds great, but I would wait until ranked starts to do that, also, please post the current rank at the time of the video. It isnt the same to fight bronze people with it, than plat people where the meta/skills are different. I'm actually trying to stay open minded about it, I want to be pleasantly surprised, who knows, maybe it works, but I wanna know if it is relevant to my rating or if it only works up to certain rating.

Yeah you make a great point, I'll upload some of my wvw footage tonight to give people something to see, and shoot some spvp footage later. here's another build i've also been messing with in spvp too, to capitalize on hybrid damage with wizard ammy, and is supplemented by altruism's steroid level amount of healing power since the rune changes. can get you 420~ healing power in water and a bit of boon duration, not too far behind similar cele builds with a ton more deeps.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTAjoCEAaA3j528buoKWADBA-jJhIQBA4EA4vHAQJLDIm9HAA

edit: I went ahead and posted builds I'm experimenting with in the OP, with short descriptions.

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Honestly, this build isn't bad by any means, but it really relies on catching your enemies off-guard. You don't really have high burst, and the biggest "bursts" are either from combos with a long setup or a big condi dump that can occur with a good amount of setup. It works when people have no idea, but after fighting it for a little while and learning to prioritize cleansing only when they have a bunch of burns. The power damage basically just tickles (unless you set up your ideal combo), and the condi damage relies on being unnoticed until its too late.

As d/d always has, it relies on having high prot uptime, lots of cleanses, and a good mix of hard/soft control (launches, knock downs, chilled, cripple, weakness). This doesn't really work all that well in the game of today where people have huge bursts that they can repeat with little wait. There isn't enough hard mitigation (evades, blocks, invulns on a short enough CD) for the major bursts and not enough damage to properly pressure other bruisers.

This will work against people playing off-meta builds, or bad/decent players relying on being carried by a meta build, but will struggle mightily against a good player on a meta build. You can effectively hold a point against a burst/dps build by out-sustaining them, or verse a a bunker (firebrand). However, a competently played bruiser will just win because they have more sustain and more damage output. Holos, spellbreakers, even core guards (burst) will probably overwhelm whatever even the best d/d ele can do.

Its not your fault, it ANets for balancing ele for a 2014 meta while everyone else is dumping out absurd 2019 dps.

Edit: I think this came off more negative than I intended. I applaud you for fighting the good fight, and trying to make a PoS class actually work in a fun way. I'm sure you can have some success, especially, as mentioned when you fight people who have no idea what your build is capable of (and most players have probably never seen a d/d ele in a pvp environment nowadays). I would love to see gameplay footage! However, I am pretty confident this will never challenge as a meta-viable build. To put it another way, once you start playing this build in PvP, you will probably see some initial success as you work your way up through the bulk of (mostly PvE) players who don't understand conquest or how to really play their class well. You will probably also feel like at some point you just hit a really hard, solid wall, where no matter what you do you can't compete. This is when you've played up to the MMR ceiling of the build and are going against equally good (or slightly worse players) that are competently playing better builds (which do more things with fewer holes and effort).

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@"BlackBeard.2873" said:Honestly, this build isn't bad by any means, but it really relies on catching your enemies off-guard. You don't really have high burst, and the biggest "bursts" are either from combos with a long setup or a big condi dump that can occur with a good amount of setup. It works when people have no idea, but after fighting it for a little while and learning to prioritize cleansing only when they have a bunch of burns. The power damage basically just tickles (unless you set up your ideal combo), and the condi damage relies on being unnoticed until its too late.

As d/d always has, it relies on having high prot uptime, lots of cleanses, and a good mix of hard/soft control (launches, knock downs, chilled, cripple, weakness). This doesn't really work all that well in the game of today where people have huge bursts that they can repeat with little wait. There isn't enough hard mitigation (evades, blocks, invulns on a short enough CD) for the major bursts and not enough damage to properly pressure other bruisers.

This will work against people playing off-meta builds, or bad/decent players relying on being carried by a meta build, but will struggle mightily against a good player on a meta build. You can effectively hold a point against a burst/dps build by out-sustaining them, or verse a a bunker (firebrand). However, a competently played bruiser will just win because they have more sustain and more damage output. Holos, spellbreakers, even core guards (burst) will probably overwhelm whatever even the best d/d ele can do.

Its not your fault, it ANets for balancing ele for a 2014 meta while everyone else is dumping out absurd 2019 dps.

Edit: I think this came off more negative than I intended. I applaud you for fighting the good fight, and trying to make a PoS class actually work in a fun way. I'm sure you can have some success, especially, as mentioned when you fight people who have no idea what your build is capable of (and most players have probably never seen a d/d ele in a pvp environment nowadays). I would love to see gameplay footage! However, I am pretty confident this will never challenge as a meta-viable build. To put it another way, once you start playing this build in PvP, you will probably see some initial success as you work your way up through the bulk of (mostly PvE) players who don't understand conquest or how to really play their class well. You will probably also feel like at some point you just hit a really hard, solid wall, where no matter what you do you can't compete. This is when you've played up to the MMR ceiling of the build and are going against equally good (or slightly worse players) that are competently playing better builds (which do more things with fewer holes and effort).

Yeah, This build likely won't be carrying any high tier matches but I don't think its dead weight. But frankly neither will Sw/D weaver. in Spvp the builds not nearly as powerful as it is in wvw, where full cele gives your upward of +700~ or more to all your stats, in WvW & guild hall duels there's only one 1v1 scenerio i'm worried i'd lose, which is against a condi mirage and sometimes an extremely good rev who can kite me (getting kited can be an issue sometimes). it's a great duelist in my humble opinion, and it's beaten private grubby's harrier brand build in guild hall & spvp lobby arena duels before, while everyone in my guild despises dueling him, especially in guild halls where firebrand has some pve only trait & skill advantages. I've fought his build on sword/dag before & couldn't even half health him due to lack of damage.

I just figured I should go ahead and post what I've been using that gives people an alternative build to the run of the mill sword/dagger heal spam weavers that will do enough damage to potentially end fights in 20 seconds instead of 3 minutes lol.

Anyways It's a moot point to debate things until I have enough footage for you guys to watch & see how I use the build. I'm working on it though, and I really want to upload it & get it linked tonight. I'm still in the process of experimenting some with a few builds in Spvp, some dealing heavier damage than others. I've linked the main ones i'm playing with now in the OP.

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My issue with unravel, I'm an idiot I'm like "I'll go for F2/F2" but I forget I get the boon of the primary attunement, or I'm F1/F2 I want F1/F1 but I didn't look at CD that is <2sec and use Unravel. I always use it too late or too early compared to what I want.It's a good skill in a repeated combo, otherwise I can't use it when I need a particular skill.I think it would be a QoL to reduce all attunements swap to 50% for ~5sec, like the elite one, instead of reset CD only once.

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  • 4 weeks later...

@"Padd.1479" said:is D/D weaver also playable with a full power marauder setup and no condi dmg? or is it too big of a missed opportunity?

d/d weaver can be played as a weapon set with lightning rod & full power gear. your gonna need to run something like this:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQJAoYnMMA94i14C+MAM5ilGArILcFiC3V6PdoWoCEAihA-j1BFQB7Y/BAcCAuoSwF8AAUoyP1pHQfq/MPIAYCArqUVVVSBo6WL-w

d/d weaver has tons of options to proc lightning rod, far more than scepter, staff, or sword. 6 on the weaponset (including lightning aura/transmute lightning aura), which are more convenient to access due to unravel letting you bypass the global attunement ICD for fast follow-up.

be warned though. this build has roughly the same mobility as my cele version, but will take 1/4 of the hits to down. your gonna be squishy, your goal is to CC chain the opponent as fast or as many times as possible.

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http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodncMAt4i94CG5CM5iFNAroN2DyBDBgFwB8+PXoX0A-jJRHABMfCAgZ/BkKDAwDAAAThis is a pretty Troll Build that actually got me mere points away from Platinum. Condi D/F weaver. You don't have to worry about conditions if you keep your health up. And you keep your health up by use of barrier and dodges.Of course, you'll come across the problem that any type of dagger weaver has. Your sustain isn't good enough as Sword and the damage doesn't compensate enough for the loss of sustain. You can overpower opponents with fast attacks and PS, but if you don't finish them off fast, they'll kite. Without unravel or range attacks, it's tough to chase.

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@"Stallic.2397" said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodncMAt4i94CG5CM5iFNAroN2DyBDBgFwB8+PXoX0A-jJRHABMfCAgZ/BkKDAwDAAAThis is a pretty Troll Build that actually got me mere points away from Platinum. Condi D/F weaver. You don't have to worry about conditions if you keep your health up. And you keep your health up by use of barrier and dodges.Of course, you'll come across the problem that any type of dagger weaver has. Your sustain isn't good enough as Sword and the damage doesn't compensate enough for the loss of sustain. You can overpower opponents with fast attacks and PS, but if you don't finish them off fast, they'll kite. Without unravel or range attacks, it's tough to chase.

https://imgur.com/a/vkDD7at

That was in full celestial gear, grinding stones was critting for 1k per tick, & i landed a 10.3k plasma burst & 7.6k burning speed. I used Fire/arcane/weaver & fire runes.

Me & my guildie Brie found a TORK guild group outside of SMC on outer chilling by some catas hitting inner, we pre-stacked 25 might, & stealthed ourselves with the fountain buff, & jumped approx 12-15 of them. within the first second i landed those huge crits & brie landed some nice hits as well, we downed about 6-8 people almost within the first second of the fight, and within 20 seconds we had finished cleaning up. granted this was a more offensive variant of my build using smothering auras & cleansing sigil for clears, & packing approx 30% more total damage in modifiers & 150 bonus power - but still. crazy that something that has the same damage as burning speed crit people for 5 figure numbers and it not be churning earth or flame grab.

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Thanks for sharing the build. It got me playing with D/D again and it's excellent. A couple changes for spvp made it even better:Drop water for fire. Yep! You actually get more clears from auras than water regen application if not taking weaver GM 2. Also you no longer need to blast to keep might up because of pyromancers puissance. You just shred things, it's super fun compared to sword also imo. So much more mobile.

Better still was core d/d. Air, fire, arcane. Take lightning rod and swiftness runes. Nothing can kite you and you can kite everything. Chain rupts and immobs. It was especially fun vs spellbreakers and scourge, they simply don't expect to be stunlocked by a core ele ;)

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  • 1 year later...

@mynamepickle.1673 said:is this still good? some things are missing now like earthen rush and celestial in pvp

Naah, not really. Not completely trash, but very subpar. Low stability uptime, badly nerfed condition application and lots of CD increases hurt weaver a lot. The only build which is semi-viable now is stunlock power D/F.

In PVP at least. However, if you like the playstyle, go for it! Just don't expect it to work all that well in higher leagues. :tongue:

WvW and PvE is a whole different matter of course.

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@mynamepickle.1673 said:is this still good? some things are missing now like earthen rush and celestial in pvp

Might generation and duration was nerfed. Healing was nerfed. Overall damage was nerfed. I highly doubt you will have much success with a build like this in pvp. You would be better off going wizard amulet, dropping water for fire and running pyro puissance.

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If you could push the burst skills to do more dmg and at the same time using the movement evasion skills to better place you self i can see it working out. The ranged on the hits are so hard to land as well as so much healing a class will have in the 1v1 or 5v5 fights a weaver d/d would work in seems like a lot of work for what you get out of it.

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There was a time, in wvw, D/D weaver was totally broken; like really; like you won 75% of all fights (1v1-4 or more) and the 25% remaining you could flee if you had wanted. I have played it, I have seen other players play it ... and we were Gods, and people whispered us praises (and insults)But yes it had high learning curve and high mastery for this result. Not all weavers were gods. You had to deserve this status.There are, or were, broken builds, like holo or Stance Spb, or trailbazer mirage, boon soulbeast... but IMO even if they are "easier" to master you couldn't reach this potential,this versatility. You did 150% of efforts, but the reward you were 110% of any other, you were +10% stronger.So it was broken, but it was broken in the hands of very few players.
Was it then really "unbalanced" ? I dont think so.

I believe it is legitimate to have counters; even in roaming WvW 1v1. No class no build should have the ascendant on all others in one mode/role no matter all the ascended armor and food and infu etc.But now the learning curve is still high and exigent, and the potentiel has been lowered too much that it gets ridiculously frustrating.The big pvp-power patch, in my eyes, has hurted elem/weaver more than any other ; the base power, the power healing, the coefs, the base condi duration, + all the modificators nerfed, the fury, the elemental lockdown etc.While for other the nerf especially felt on the power and secondarily, viciously, on the sustain over the time; with elem you felt it in all stats, all aspects ; You need more power, healing power is less rewarding, but you still need it anyway because it's the class design but you can"t reach the same number as before. Other classes were nerfed, it's sad, but outside a sigil, a trait... they didn't have to reconsider their gear, their build. At least I haven't. On Elem, except if you were already full glass-cannon, you had to "theory craft" after the patch and experiment, revise the accessories, the runes, the breakstun, ... to find a wobbly balance.

I don't think I am the best player over the world, but I'm not that bad far from it and there were good players and build I beat yesterday I can't beat anymore, not even have a chance.Like for example : on same "skill" ; a SpB is a counter to melee weaver, still you had a chance because of a mistake, a smart play etc: but you don't have anymore, you don't have enough BS/stab, you have less regen/sustain, you have less power/burst, you even have less kites overall (number + cast +distance+ CD), you can't buff yourself enough ("Active defense" like vigor/protection/dodge, it doesn't last long with boonstrip and CC chain). A Spb can just run Rampage + F1 GS and you're dead.Just try it, this is not a joke, play SpB, and you'll feel Weaver is one of the easiest prey you can encounter, you can really humiliate him until he ragequits. And yet, in the classes with low stab/BS Weaver is not the last, but sometimes "Active defense" is useless if you can't be active.Same for Rifle deadeye : You had enough sustain/regen and leaps and cc and Burst to burn all his breakstun/steps or kill him in fast enough, or at least to say "I won't let you win"; now ... you're dead ... you can just let go the mouse and keyboard, because you're dead, or you don't have the sustain or you don't have the power/burst, you can't have all the tools. (Even for fresh air you're not sure to have the burst before a step/evade to kill him, before be killed)

I'm on a point with D/D weaver the level, and the investment I could give, are at my utmost, but are not rewarding like it should be, like other classes and builds do.To illustrate, we're in WvW with an imaginary Score Board after : With weaver I'm Platine-2, after years of training , and If I try an other class (Obviously with the knowledge of the game and a view of the class ) I can reach the same level in few hours, may be even higher, like Platine-3 with a Flasbang Holo, a Soulbeast ...So you can be a better Weaver than me, legend-1let' say, I believe you I met some ... BUT I bet you'll be even stronger with an other class and you don't even know it yet.You still do 150% of effort, but you're barely at 98% of other class.

This was mainly about D/D weaver (Water/Arcane, Air/Arcane, whatever). Because it's the thread.About condi weaver, tanky gears, with all the love I have for cellofrag to cite only one , I think those are more" troll builds" than "dual builds" but with the same issue. :Sure you can easily win outnumbered fights against greedy and newbies players, but to me tanky Condi Weaver/tempest are just annoying to fight, close to Mirage : or you can't counter condition and you die, or you could but you just die of boredom ... or you just run away because this isn't a fun. Smart players can quickly assess you're not worth to fight.Still: with your experience, your level, you could play with condi Herald/revenant, with condi mirage... and did better, even harass them better with cripple, frost and shadowsteps.

I'm not a fan of Fresh-Air Weaver, I don't have enough experience about it, I believe the curve is even steeper but the build less versatile. Except some cut scenes on youtube I rarely see fresh-air weavers last long in 1v2, mostly on open fields without walls etc. But I also have the experience of "burst Mesmer" as well, and it's more enjoyable: immediately more intuitive, solid and stronger.Same with fresh-air Tempest.I think both Fresh air specs are counters to D/D weaver (Range+CC, or fat melee pressure+schoking aura; it's hard for weaver to keep pressure) but are less viable for roaming (alone).

I still play mainly weaver. Sure I love Elem ; but I think I am in the sunk-cost, I invest too much in Ele (time, golds with inscriptions, sigils etc) I just don't want to leave it, emotionally I can't. I'm in the expectation, the hope, for a buff somewhere, even ridiculous, a +5% base power or base healing which might balance a little better.But also because I play less these last months, and I want a class I'm familiar with.

All of this is my experience, my feeling, you could think differently; especially on fresh air and tempest I don't know or master well, or have some trouble to fight against.
But on D/D weaver I have won almost all my duels against other D/x and Sw/x weavers, with my own weaver and with other classes, I'm pretty sure I know more about it, the balance, the control etc, than 80% of elems (In WvW) : The more you invest, the best you are, Other classes > melee Weaver.

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@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:There was a time, in wvw, D/D weaver was totally broken; like really; like you won 75% of all fights (1v1-4 or more) and the 25% remaining you could flee if you had wanted. I have played it, I have seen other players play it ... and we were Gods, and people whispered us praises (and insults)But yes it had high learning curve and high mastery for this result. Not all weavers were gods. You had to deserve this status.There are, or were, broken builds, like holo or Stance Spb, or trailbazer mirage, boon soulbeast... but IMO even if they are "easier" to master you couldn't reach this potential,this versatility. You did 150% of efforts, but the reward you were 110% of any other, you were +10% stronger.So it was broken, but it was broken in the hands of very few players.

Was it then really "unbalanced" ? I dont think so.

I believe it is legitimate to have counters; even in roaming WvW 1v1. No class no build should have the ascendant on all others in one mode/role no matter all the ascended armor and food and infu etc.But now the learning curve is still high and exigent, and the potentiel has been lowered too much that it gets ridiculously frustrating.

I don't think I am the best player over the world, but I'm not that bad far from it and there were good players and build I beat yesterday I can't beat anymore, not even have a chance.Like for example : on same "skill" ; a SpB is a counter to melee weaver, still you had a chance because of a mistake, a smart play etc: but you don't have anymore, you don't have enough BS/stab, you have less regen/sustain, you have less power/burst, you even have less kites overall (number + cast +distance+ CD), you can't buff yourself enough ("Active defense" like vigor/protection/dodge, it doesn't last long with boonstrip and CC chain). A Spb can just run Rampage + F1 GS and you're dead.Just try it, this is not a joke, play SpB, and you'll feel Weaver is one of the easiest prey you can encounter, you can really humiliate him until he ragequits. And yet, in the classes with low stab/BS Weaver is not the last, but sometimes "Active defense" is useless if you can't be active.Same for Rifle deadeye : You had enough sustain/regen and leaps and cc and Burst to burn all his breakstun/steps or kill him in fast enough, or at least to say "I won't let you win"; now ... you're dead ... you can just let go the mouse and keyboard, because you're dead, or you don't have the sustain or you don't have the power/burst, you can't have all the tools. (Even for fresh air you're not sure to have the burst before a step/evade to kill him, before be killed)

I'm on a point with D/D weaver the level, and the investment I could give, are at my utmost, but are not rewarding like it should be, like other classes and builds do.To illustrate, we're in WvW with an imaginary Score Board after : With weaver I'm Platine-2, after years of training , and If I try an other class I can reach the same level in few hours, may be even higher, like Platine-3 with a Flasbang Holo, a Soulbeast ...So you can be a better Weaver than me, legend-1let' say, I believe you I met some ... BUT I bet you'll be even stronger with an other class and you don't even know it yet.You still do 150% of effort, but you're barely at 98% of other class.

This was mainly about D/D weaver (Water/Arcane, Air/Arcane, whatever). Because it's the thread.About condi weaver, tanky gears, with all the love I have for cellofrag to cite only one , I think those are more" troll builds" than "dual builds" but with the same issue. :Sure you can easily win outnumbered fights against greedy and newbies players, but to me tanky Condi Weaver/tempest are just annoying to fight, close to Mirage : or you can't counter condition and you die, or you could but you just die of boredom ... or you just run away because this isn't a fun. Smart players can quickly assess you're not worth to fight.Still: with your experience, your level, you could play with condi Herald/revenant, with condi mirage... and did better, even harass them better with cripple, frost and shadowsteps.

I'm not a fan of Fresh-Air Weaver, I don't have enough experience about it, I believe the curve is even steeper but the build less versatile. Except some cut scenes on youtube I rarely see fresh-air weavers last long in 1v2, mostly on open fields without walls etc. But I also have the experience of "burst Mesmer" as well, and it's more enjoyable: immediately more intuitive, solid and stronger.Same with fresh-air Tempest.I think both Fresh air specs are counters to D/D weaver (Range+CC, or fat melee pressure+schoking aura; it's hard for weaver to keep pressure) but are less viable for roaming (alone).

I still play mainly weaver. Sure I love Elem ; but I think I am in the sunk-cost, I invest too much in Ele (time, golds with inscriptions, sigils etc) I just don't want to leave it, emotionally I can't. I'm in the expectation, the hope, for a buff somewhere, even ridiculous, a +5% base power or base healing which might balance a little better.But also because I play less these last months, and I want a class I'm familiar with.

All of this is my experience, my feeling, you could think differently; especially on fresh air and tempest I don't know or master well, or have some trouble to fight against.

But on D/D weaver I have won almost all my duels against other D/x and Sw/x weavers, with my own weaver and with other classes, I'm pretty sure I know more about it, the balance, the control etc, than 80% of elem (In WvW) : The more you invest, the best you are, Other classes > melee Weaver.

I think it's just the over-nerf from the February patch. Weaver CC defense is simply awful with the ridiculously long cooldown on ToF and lack of stability. Meanwhile, the damage nerfs make it far too difficult to finish opponents given the lack of mobility on melee weaver builds. This leads to a situation where you have to hope your opponent makes a lot of mistakes while you play flawlessly or else you just repeatedly get close but never quite finish the job. Meanwhile, they land any old CC and you're eating a ton of damage you can't sustain.

I'm not saying weaver is unplayable in PvP/WvW, but I think it would be accurate to say that it went from near top-tier to near bottom-tier since the patch.

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