Will mirage ever get a proper nerf?

[UfoCoffee.2084]

@Alilith.3157 said:

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:It's back to when scourges were op. They are ruining PvP. I needed a mist core fragment last night and so grinded out some sPvP which i don't normally do off season and there were 80% of the time 4 mirage in each game. Needless to say it was about as much fun as having my toenails pulled out with pliers.

Something needs to be done in next patch otherwise pvp population will drop again. Guildies have stopped playing pvp until they are fixed.

Mirage mains will try saying L2P as ofc lazy people will always pick godmode class to climb easily but people like Shorts who is one of the best mesmers out there are always saying how OP and brainless condi mesmer is and yet we have average mesmer mains on here trying to say they are ok.

I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

Lol how about them necro's throwing their condies everywhere completely on the point..? Hello 50000 stacks, hello dead within 1.5s. Especially when you have two of them in a team. Absolutely lovely.

Scourge can be destroyed from range. They can't port onto you with their condos. Scourge have no mobility and are easily kited and only 2 normal dodges and no invulns or stealth.

A scourge makes a bad positional mistake he's dead if a mesmer does the same thing who cares. They have tons of escapes.

[Solori.6025]

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:high risk, high rewardlow risk, low reward

this is how it should be.

Since neither thieves nor mesmers take any risks at all, they must not do any damage.

So by all means, be a perma-evade-clone-spamming-invul-ball of fuzz. If every single one of your attacks amount to nothing but 10hp damage and a bit of endurance reduction on your targets.

Everything else is unbalanced.

It is really that simple.

Instead we got thieves and mesmers: no risk, high reward

And ANET, thief and mesmer players are surprised that people are fed up with this mess? Seriously?

When you say thief please state deadeye as d/p and s/d aren't that good currently.

Does this mean you will start making the effort to state condi mirage instead of mesmer?Also S/D is good currently.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I like how you complain about "ton of evades" and resetting the fight with teleport and stealth, while playing thief.Also you mention people need to l2p again thief while complaining that mesmers say L2p.Jerry Seinfeld would be proud.

As for shorts being one of the best mesmers, on usa sure, on game in general not so sure.And he uses the most awful weapon on the whole profession arsenal, saying that's a good weapon (focus).

[Solori.6025]

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:I like how you complain about "ton of evades" and resetting the fight with teleport and stealth, while playing thief.Also you mention people need to l2p again thief while complaining that mesmers say L2p.Jerry Seinfeld would be proud.

As for shorts being one of the best mesmers, on usa sure, on game in general not so sure.And he uses the most awful weapon on the whole profession arsenal, saying that's a good weapon (focus).

S/D is Also a mirage counter as has been shown in a couple of Vids. Including one with shorts v noodica.

[Brujeria.7536]

I think they are taking the wrong approach with the Mirage balance and nerfs. Its true that the nerfs where plentifull in the last few balance patches, but they simply nerf the wrong things in the wrong way.

Mesmer as a base class is pretty fine. The class is naturally a strong 1v1 fighter, dueller, skirmisher, call it how you like to. Mirage adds a LOT of new mechanics and power to that. The special dodge is ALREADY very strong, but as elite specs are there are also traits utility skills etc. that make the class broken. They should drasticly REMOVE or REDUCE parts of the kit in exchange for such a strong added power. For example: Mirage can only have 2 clones and the shatter effect on self is removed. Or mirage has less shatter skills. Remove the Distort for example. Or double the base Shatter cooldowns for mirage. Then, you look at the dodge itself. It has no counterplay, you dont need to think, strategize, it has 0 risk and a huge reward. Change the mechanic so that : You cant dodge while CCd. If you dodge while casting a skill, the skill gets interrupted as usual. Reduce the window they can use an ambush skill afterwards. Then look at the rest of the class: it has WAY too many defensive mechanics. Distort. Stealth. Mobility. Decoys/target breaking, Dodge. Simply remove some of the sources for these effects or drasticly remove the uptime.

That is the only way to bring this class to a reasonable level. You can proceed to nerf every skill and trait of the class and it would STILL be unfun to play against and overloaded with defense and offense and no counterplay. You might turn down the damage a little bit, but you dont properly fix the core flaws this way.

[Curunen.8729]

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:

@santso.9201 said:Just Make blind on shatter icd of 10s, Make Mirage cloak like normal Dodge so that you cant evade If cc'd or immob unless you pick The gm trait and call it a day

and then you're no longer miragethe entire concept of the class is gone

I understand its frustrating but you should understand that mirage has limited stamina and now with the infinite horizon meta you need stamina to do damage. If they use their stamina to dodge while cced then they're going to have 1 volley less of conditions from infinite horizon, it's really that simple.

Thief uses initiative for offense or defense (not literally or entirely but you more or less get the point) and mirage uses stamina, its the same concept just different resource.

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@santso.9201 said:Just Make blind on shatter icd of 10s, Make Mirage cloak like normal Dodge so that you cant evade If cc'd or immob unless you pick The gm trait and call it a day

It shouldn‘t be possible, not even with a GM trait. They should need to time their evades before the stun hits them or burn a stunbreak, like every other profession.

Only difference being that other professions have better/more stunbreaks and also stability, which mirage doesn't really have any more since it was also nerfed (along everything else) and the duration is stupidly short and can hardly be called a thing

if we're talking about "every other profession" then feel free to increase the condi duration on every skill for mirage (like every other profession) cus right now its among , if not the shortest in the game.

I love how some people were crying about torch applying 1 stack of burn for 10 seconds and then there's engii's pistol which is 4 stacks of burn for 15 sec+ which amounts to over 15k dmgLmao

I don‘t play mirage so how many stunbreaks do you have? Blink is the only one I can remember right now ( Edit: according to the meta build it is the only one). But besides that you have distortion, target breaks, stealth, acces to aegis and skills like axe #3 and staff #2 which imo is enough to avoid stuns.

I can see your point tho but it‘s almost impossible to land a stun + damage combo because you can use evades more often than stunbreaks (+ you have easy acces to vigor). And it‘s not like you should be able to stunbreak every stun. There should be occasions where you can‘t do anything because of getting outplayed, having cds etc.

It would also promote more skillfull play, atm you can just evade if you kitten up instead of actually evade a stun like everyone else does (I often get the impression mirages don‘t even try to evade stuns... If I think about it there‘s actually no reason to except if they hit hard).

Tl;Dr: It should be possible to look mirages down which you can‘t atm.

While I am in the camp of advocating skillful play and not having easy reactionary safety buttons, and in this way would be in favour of removing the ability to dodge while cced, there is another train of thought to this feature.

The crucial factor is Endurance is a limited resource - yes it can be spent whenever the mirage likes, yes it can be regained faster - but the frequency of dodge access is still limited - one dodge spent is one less dodge available for a short time and depsite what is portrayed on this forum there are multiple windows to hit a mirage and deal massive damage to them. Vigour has quite a lot of downtime actually since the nerfs. Firework rune in wvw may patch that with the additional 6s every 20s for power mirage, but mirage doesn't regen dodges as fast as is perceived without say food in wvw, so there is a cost to spending them.

A usual CC+Damage combo can be negated by a dodge (50% endurance spent with the mirage still being cced) - but a CC+..Pause..+Damage can bait the mirage to burn a dodge and then follow up with the burst.

In some ways it isn't so much a problem, rather a different way of approaching gw2 combat where normal rules of cc+burst aren't applicable. Instead of control->damage combos being immediate, one has to mix things up and bait even more.

Regarding being locked down, it's important to remember that mirage cannot face tank damage. There is no sustain aside from the heal skill, of which FO is on a long 25s cooldown. In this way all those tricks of avoiding damage, through mobility or evade etc, are how it is meant to play. Contrast to say necro, druid, warrior etc where you get hit a lot - trading blows - but can sustain through it.

The difference is mirage's survivability is scalable for any number of opponents - mobility and evades work if there's 1 or 10 opponents. Otherwise it can be seen from the perspective that it also "face tanks" by not getting hit - I believe this is subjectively more annoying for some players because they want to see themselves hitting the opponent whereas mirage is like something uncatchable, which is where the frustration comes in - though this is living up to the name thematically and in gameplay.

But I still can see both sides so as said initially would be in favour of removing dodge while cced or leaving it in.

(As a final side note - I stubbornly still persist with EM in wvw for the condi cleanse and actively avoid dodging in any form of cc - whether daze or fear - as it is almost a death sentence when that exhaustion procs in outnumbered fights. So I'm already used to not dodging with mirage cloak while cced)

[UfoCoffee.2084]

@Solori.6025 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:I like how you complain about "ton of evades" and resetting the fight with teleport and stealth, while playing thief.Also you mention people need to l2p again thief while complaining that mesmers say L2p.Jerry Seinfeld would be proud.

As for shorts being one of the best mesmers, on usa sure, on game in general not so sure.And he uses the most awful weapon on the whole profession arsenal, saying that's a good weapon (focus).

S/D is Also a mirage counter as has been shown in a couple of Vids. Including one with shorts v noodica.

I didn't see the s/d vid. Is he playing as power?

I saw the d/p thief noodica versus power mirage and shorts owned him hard.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:I like how you complain about "ton of evades" and resetting the fight with teleport and stealth, while playing thief.Also you mention people need to l2p again thief while complaining that mesmers say L2p.Jerry Seinfeld would be proud.

As for shorts being one of the best mesmers, on usa sure, on game in general not so sure.And he uses the most awful weapon on the whole profession arsenal, saying that's a good weapon (focus).

S/D is Also a mirage counter as has been shown in a couple of Vids. Including one with shorts v noodica.

I didn't see the s/d vid. Is he playing as power?

I saw the d/p thief noodica versus power mirage and shorts owned him hard.

Just search on tube, it's the first video, shorts playing power and getting killed by s/d and d/p noodica every time.

[Derenaya.3479]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I like how you complain about "ton of evades" and resetting the fight with teleport and stealth, while playing thief.Also you mention people need to l2p again thief while complaining that mesmers say L2p.Jerry Seinfeld would be proud.

As for shorts being one of the best mesmers, on usa sure, on game in general not so sure.And he uses the most awful weapon on the whole profession arsenal, saying that's a good weapon (focus).

S/D is Also a mirage counter as has been shown in a couple of Vids. Including one with shorts v noodica.

I didn't see the s/d vid. Is he playing as power?

I saw the d/p thief noodica versus power mirage and shorts owned him hard.

Just search on tube, it's the first video, shorts playing power and getting killed by s/d and d/p noodica every time.

Lol, maybe listen to what he says.

[Arioch.4810]

Mirage turned from possibly perma-vigor into one of the professions with least vigor, this on a profession whose main mechanic depend on endurance and whose endurance is used for both defense and offense.

And yet it's still playable: (with current amount of vigor)That's my problem with Anet's direction for Mirage - toning down vigor in order to limit Mirage's kit is bad. If you manage to get off that perfect alpha strike OR if you manage to soak up opponent's key abilities into mirage cloak proc, it looks OP. Giving Mirage more chance(s) to dodge via vigor generation but shaving other parts of the kit would probably be much better.

Mirage sees a lot of play in gold (and lower) divisions and reputation earned in those matches where majority of PvP-ers play often triggers pitchfork hunts - hell a couple months back we had that massive thread about signet of midnight being OP.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I like how you complain about "ton of evades" and resetting the fight with teleport and stealth, while playing thief.Also you mention people need to l2p again thief while complaining that mesmers say L2p.Jerry Seinfeld would be proud.

As for shorts being one of the best mesmers, on usa sure, on game in general not so sure.And he uses the most awful weapon on the whole profession arsenal, saying that's a good weapon (focus).

S/D is Also a mirage counter as has been shown in a couple of Vids. Including one with shorts v noodica.

I didn't see the s/d vid. Is he playing as power?

I saw the d/p thief noodica versus power mirage and shorts owned him hard.

Just search on tube, it's the first video, shorts playing power and getting killed by s/d and d/p noodica every time.

Lol, maybe listen to what he says.

In fact I didn't hear, most of pvp videos have vomit inducing music hence why I mute them all.

@"Arioch.4810" said:

Mirage turned from possibly perma-vigor into one of the professions with least vigor, this on a profession whose main mechanic depend on endurance and whose endurance is used for both defense and offense.

And yet it's still playable: (with current amount of vigor)That's my problem with Anet's direction for Mirage - toning down vigor in order to limit Mirage's kit is bad. If you manage to get off that perfect alpha strike OR if you manage to soak up opponent's key abilities into mirage cloak proc, it looks OP. Giving Mirage more chance(s) to dodge via vigor generation but shaving other parts of the kit would probably be much better.

Mirage sees a lot of play in gold (and lower) divisions and reputation earned in those matches where majority of PvP-ers play often triggers pitchfork hunts - hell a couple months back we had that massive thread about signet of midnight being OP.

It's not completely ANet's fault, well, ultimately it is, but they follow closely the "qq of the month" and proceed to nerf based on that.

[Derenaya.3479]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I like how you complain about "ton of evades" and resetting the fight with teleport and stealth, while playing thief.Also you mention people need to l2p again thief while complaining that mesmers say L2p.Jerry Seinfeld would be proud.

As for shorts being one of the best mesmers, on usa sure, on game in general not so sure.And he uses the most awful weapon on the whole profession arsenal, saying that's a good weapon (focus).

S/D is Also a mirage counter as has been shown in a couple of Vids. Including one with shorts v noodica.

I didn't see the s/d vid. Is he playing as power?

I saw the d/p thief noodica versus power mirage and shorts owned him hard.

Just search on tube, it's the first video, shorts playing power and getting killed by s/d and d/p noodica every time.

Lol, maybe listen to what he says.

In fact I didn't hear, most of pvp videos have vomit inducing music hence why I mute them all.

@"Arioch.4810" said:

Mirage turned from possibly perma-vigor into one of the professions with least vigor, this on a profession whose main mechanic depend on endurance and whose endurance is used for both defense and offense.

And yet it's still playable: (with current amount of vigor)That's my problem with Anet's direction for Mirage - toning down vigor in order to limit Mirage's kit is bad. If you manage to get off that perfect alpha strike OR if you manage to soak up opponent's key abilities into mirage cloak proc, it looks OP. Giving Mirage more chance(s) to dodge via vigor generation but shaving other parts of the kit would probably be much better.

Mirage sees a lot of play in gold (and lower) divisions and reputation earned in those matches where majority of PvP-ers play often triggers pitchfork hunts - hell a couple months back we had that massive thread about signet of midnight being OP.

It's not completely ANet's fault, well, ultimately it is, but they follow closely the "qq of the month" and proceed to nerf based on that.

''The majority of the duells went to Shorts, I'd say 60% to him and 40% to me.'' (0:40) And that was vs power mirage.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I like how you complain about "ton of evades" and resetting the fight with teleport and stealth, while playing thief.Also you mention people need to l2p again thief while complaining that mesmers say L2p.Jerry Seinfeld would be proud.

As for shorts being one of the best mesmers, on usa sure, on game in general not so sure.And he uses the most awful weapon on the whole profession arsenal, saying that's a good weapon (focus).

S/D is Also a mirage counter as has been shown in a couple of Vids. Including one with shorts v noodica.

I didn't see the s/d vid. Is he playing as power?

I saw the d/p thief noodica versus power mirage and shorts owned him hard.

Just search on tube, it's the first video, shorts playing power and getting killed by s/d and d/p noodica every time.

Lol, maybe listen to what he says.

In fact I didn't hear, most of pvp videos have vomit inducing music hence why I mute them all.

@"Arioch.4810" said:

Mirage turned from possibly perma-vigor into one of the professions with least vigor, this on a profession whose main mechanic depend on endurance and whose endurance is used for both defense and offense.

And yet it's still playable: (with current amount of vigor)That's my problem with Anet's direction for Mirage - toning down vigor in order to limit Mirage's kit is bad. If you manage to get off that perfect alpha strike OR if you manage to soak up opponent's key abilities into mirage cloak proc, it looks OP. Giving Mirage more chance(s) to dodge via vigor generation but shaving other parts of the kit would probably be much better.

Mirage sees a lot of play in gold (and lower) divisions and reputation earned in those matches where majority of PvP-ers play often triggers pitchfork hunts - hell a couple months back we had that massive thread about signet of midnight being OP.

It's not completely ANet's fault, well, ultimately it is, but they follow closely the "qq of the month" and proceed to nerf based on that.

''The majority of the duells went to Shorts, I'd say 60% to him and 40% to me.'' (0:40) And that was vs power mirage.Fair enough.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Just when you thought Mirage was a problem in spvp, then you read the OP statement of this thread, and realize this is happening in wvw ->https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66370/it-is-time-to-remove-40-endurance-food/p1

[apharma.3741]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Just when you thought Mirage was a problem in spvp, then you read the OP statement of this thread, and realize this is happening in wvw ->https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66370/it-is-time-to-remove-40-endurance-food/p1

There's a lot more things wrong with WvW than mirage.

Remember how moa stance and dolyak stance were given longer cool downs in PvP? Not in WvW and dolyak stance was even buffed.Remember all those druid nerfs? Yeah CA is still 10s CD in WvW.Remember how Ancient Seeds was super obnoxious immobilising you every 10s so increased to 20s in PvP? Guess what, not in WvW.You know how Holosmiths used to have perma quickness in PvP? Well WvW with celerity sigil they still do WITH free adrenal implant via food.Remember the damage nerfs to Photon Forge? Yeah all but photon blitz were left intact for WvW so they legit kill people in 1s.Remember how staff 5 on revs used to do 10k? Well if you don't remember just head to WvW and enjoy it the way it used to be!

WvW is a hot mess of balance changes that should have been brought over but never were.

Oh and if you thought deadeye was obnoxious in PvP you haven't had one following you across an entire map for 30 minutes popping up to try and kill you if you try to fight anyone else. Yes there really are sad pathetic people that will do that on deadeye.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Just when you thought Mirage was a problem in spvp, then you read the OP statement of this thread, and realize this is happening in wvw ->https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66370/it-is-time-to-remove-40-endurance-food/p1

Condi Mirage in WvW is a terror.

• Dire + Trailblazers is available to augment Viper’s and Carrion
• 50% endurance regen on weapon swap.
• 40% passive regeneration.

The end result is a class that starts a fight with 8-9 mirage cloaks in the first 20 seconds. It’s beyond broken there...

[nativity.3057]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@santso.9201 said:Just Make blind on shatter icd of 10s, Make Mirage cloak like normal Dodge so that you cant evade If cc'd or immob unless you pick The gm trait and call it a day

and then you're no longer miragethe entire concept of the class is gone

I understand its frustrating but you should understand that mirage has limited stamina and now with the infinite horizon meta you need stamina to do damage. If they use their stamina to dodge while cced then they're going to have 1 volley less of conditions from infinite horizon, it's really that simple.

Thief uses initiative for offense or defense (not literally or entirely but you more or less get the point) and mirage uses stamina, its the same concept just different resource.

you can't honestly defend dodge while stunned without Elusive Mind.It really defeats the whole purpose of landing CC. Just promotes bad gameplay.

On a separate note regarding your other points, yes, core guardian has a favorable match-up, but not against the sage chaos staff mirage build.There was a video uploaded here showing a duel between the sage build and a core guard that went in favor of the mirage.The defensive set of Staff + Chaos makes it hard for a core guardian to win the sustained fight (which is generally the weakness of core guards; builds that can outsustain it). It's pretty simple to dodge the burst, and Wrath of Justice passive is useless because it doesn't stop Mirage dodge. Distortion is a better invuln skill than Renewed Focus, I'd go as far as to say it's the best invuln skill because you can still attack (Eles have a good invuln skill in Earth focus 5, but that requires taking focus).Not to mention access to quickness in Arcane Thievery (unblockable btw) and having access to weakness, slow, and chill.In a straight 1v1, the mirage should win.

It's a bit disingenuous to say Mirage's have the least amount of access to Vigor. It really doesn't. Vigor on shatters, vigor on critical hits, vigor on heal, and endurance regen from runes and sigils. (I'm focusing on the sage build).

Staff + Chaos trait is a bit overtuned imo.

[UfoCoffee.2084]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Just when you thought Mirage was a problem in spvp, then you read the OP statement of this thread, and realize this is happening in wvw ->https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66370/it-is-time-to-remove-40-endurance-food/p1

You'll still get the morons saying L2P whilst trying to deny how broken they are.

Most of us have played condi mirage at one point or another. My second most played profession is mesmer. I stopped playing as condi is braindead and boring ,although broken as hell, and power has now turned into stand at range and spam dodge and 1. Yawn.

Mesmers need changes to make them fun again not just to fix their brokenness.

[Hex.8714]

dosent look like it

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Caine.8204 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Caine.8204 said:Nerf Distortion by 1s, have it only grant distortion when you shatter an illusion.

Trait that gives blind on Shatter: ICD of 3 seconds (per target)

Have mirage cloak count as a block instead of an evade, so unblockable attacks can still hit the Mesmer.

Balanced.

It’s a good thing you’re not working for ANet. I’ve read some bad ideas but this is near the top.

They have a 70% chance to evade or avoid an attack, while having some of the highest single target damage in the game. They also have access to permanent regen, and then protection through chaos armor/chaos storms.

If anything, having the dodge count as a block rather than a complete evade would bring them into balanced territory.

Having a blind on every shatter is also a root cause of their invulnerability. Either nerf this, nerf the distortion, nerf the dodge, or all 3.

Mirage Cloak isn’t being changed to a block, so let’s take that off the board right away.

I agree, Mirage Cloak needs to lock out actions during it’s animation and then provide a 2 second window to activate an ambush skill. It needs to be a normal dodge that doesn’t apply counter pressure or allow freely protected heals/stomps/rez etc.

Here is a list of things that would STILL make Mirage Cloak better than base dodge:

• Can still dodge when Immobilized.
• Can still dodge when CCed.
• Still has 33% more evade frames (1 seconds vs 3/4).
• Still allows for better positioning/control.

Mirage will pretty much never be balanced unless this happens. The only other option is to so completely gut core skills and traits but then base Mesmer and Chrono will suffer.

Chrono is nearly as bad as mirage. Spamming an army of pets cluttering the screen, insane survivability. Whoever is in charge of mesmer balance must be constantly high. Nerf axe power damage again......

Nerfing the straight DPS of axe again won't do anything as long as their are condi applications to it. I dont see many DPS axe builds compared to condi.

[Hex.8714]

seems like it will never get one, or maybe it will in 2 seasons when pvp will have only 100 players left

[Skyronight.6370]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Caine.8204 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Caine.8204 said:Nerf Distortion by 1s, have it only grant distortion when you shatter an illusion.

Trait that gives blind on Shatter: ICD of 3 seconds (per target)

Have mirage cloak count as a block instead of an evade, so unblockable attacks can still hit the Mesmer.

Balanced.

It’s a good thing you’re not working for ANet. I’ve read some bad ideas but this is near the top.

They have a 70% chance to evade or avoid an attack, while having some of the highest single target damage in the game. They also have access to permanent regen, and then protection through chaos armor/chaos storms.

If anything, having the dodge count as a block rather than a complete evade would bring them into balanced territory.

Having a blind on every shatter is also a root cause of their invulnerability. Either nerf this, nerf the distortion, nerf the dodge, or all 3.

Mirage Cloak isn’t being changed to a block, so let’s take that off the board right away.

I agree, Mirage Cloak needs to lock out actions during it’s animation and then provide a 2 second window to activate an ambush skill. It needs to be a normal dodge that doesn’t apply counter pressure or allow freely protected heals/stomps/rez etc.

Here is a list of things that would STILL make Mirage Cloak better than base dodge:

• Can still dodge when Immobilized.
• Can still dodge when CCed.
• Still has 33% more evade frames (1 seconds vs 3/4).
• Still allows for better positioning/control.

Mirage will pretty much never be balanced unless this happens. The only other option is to so completely gut core skills and traits but then base Mesmer and Chrono will suffer.

Chrono is nearly as bad as mirage. Spamming an army of pets cluttering the screen, insane survivability. Whoever is in charge of mesmer balance must be constantly high. Nerf axe power damage again......

Nerfing the straight DPS of axe again won't do anything as long as their are condi applications to it. I dont see many DPS axe builds compared to condi.

it needs a complete revamp, basically the whole spec needs to be using abilities to do damage and not apply damage through clones. also instead of torment and confusion it should be other conditions so people can actually play their character and not just sit there and die because you cant move or attack with torment and confusion. Also evading attacks while moving and casting is increidbly game breaking, mirage just needs a nerf+ revamp to make it balanced and not toxic in pvp

[Khalisto.5780]

they just have to nerf infinite horizons, remove it's effect on illusion or at least put a 33% chance of affecting it

[Thornwolf.9721]

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:It's back to when scourges were op. They are ruining PvP. I needed a mist core fragment last night and so grinded out some sPvP which i don't normally do off season and there were 80% of the time 4 mirage in each game. Needless to say it was about as much fun as having my toenails pulled out with pliers.

Something needs to be done in next patch otherwise pvp population will drop again. Guildies have stopped playing pvp until they are fixed.

Mirage mains will try saying L2P as ofc lazy people will always pick godmode class to climb easily but people like Shorts who is one of the best mesmers out there are always saying how OP and brainless condi mesmer is and yet we have average mesmer mains on here trying to say they are ok.

I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

not until the next elite spec happens, then it will be gutted to make way for the new OP Thing.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Skyronight.6370 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Caine.8204 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Caine.8204 said:Nerf Distortion by 1s, have it only grant distortion when you shatter an illusion.

Trait that gives blind on Shatter: ICD of 3 seconds (per target)

Have mirage cloak count as a block instead of an evade, so unblockable attacks can still hit the Mesmer.

Balanced.

It’s a good thing you’re not working for ANet. I’ve read some bad ideas but this is near the top.

They have a 70% chance to evade or avoid an attack, while having some of the highest single target damage in the game. They also have access to permanent regen, and then protection through chaos armor/chaos storms.

If anything, having the dodge count as a block rather than a complete evade would bring them into balanced territory.

Having a blind on every shatter is also a root cause of their invulnerability. Either nerf this, nerf the distortion, nerf the dodge, or all 3.

Mirage Cloak isn’t being changed to a block, so let’s take that off the board right away.

I agree, Mirage Cloak needs to lock out actions during it’s animation and then provide a 2 second window to activate an ambush skill. It needs to be a normal dodge that doesn’t apply counter pressure or allow freely protected heals/stomps/rez etc.

Here is a list of things that would STILL make Mirage Cloak better than base dodge:

• Can still dodge when Immobilized.
• Can still dodge when CCed.
• Still has 33% more evade frames (1 seconds vs 3/4).
• Still allows for better positioning/control.

Mirage will pretty much never be balanced unless this happens. The only other option is to so completely gut core skills and traits but then base Mesmer and Chrono will suffer.

Chrono is nearly as bad as mirage. Spamming an army of pets cluttering the screen, insane survivability. Whoever is in charge of mesmer balance must be constantly high. Nerf axe power damage again......

Nerfing the straight DPS of axe again won't do anything as long as their are condi applications to it. I dont see many DPS axe builds compared to condi.

it needs a complete revamp, basically the whole spec needs to be using abilities to do damage and not apply damage through clones. also instead of torment and confusion it should be other conditions so people can actually play their character and not just sit there and die because you cant move or attack with torment and confusion. Also evading attacks while moving and casting is increidbly game breaking, mirage just needs a nerf+ revamp to make it balanced and not toxic in pvp

I kinda like that idea. Maybe make it like blind/immob/chill or something so it still has viability, however less DoT dependent.