Necro: "how to fix..."

[Dadnir.5038]

1- How to fix boon corruption in PvE?

Boon corruption, and more generally boon hate, in PvE is and has always been into an awkward state for 2 reasons, mobs generally don't need boons and the ability suffer from tremendous diminishing return as the number of player attacking a single foe is high. In order to fix this, I think the best way is to modify defiance/breakbar in such a way that it interact with "boon hate".

Thus, here, the main idea is to make it so that stricking a defiant or an enemy in breakbar phase with a boon riping effect create a "feedback" despite the fact that no boons seem to be there. With this in mind, here is what I suggest:

• On defiant foes, boon hate act like it strike on either vigor or regeneration.
• On breakbar phase foes, boon hate act like it strike at stability.

Note: It might seem that such a change would only benefit the necromancer but, in reality, it would benefit any professions with effects that depend on boon ripping. Right now, I see revenant and spellbreaker also being positively impacted by such a change without pushing those 2 professions to unwanted height.

2- How to fix dark fields?

The necromancer is the unfortunate owner of the generally unpopular dark fields. The lack of popularity of these field's combo effects coupled with the necromancer's low ability to use reliable combo finishers tend to make those more of an hindrance than anything. However, I think that the combo system deserve to be revived and that this is especially the case for the necromancer since it would give more depth to it's gameplay that often seem very basic to profane's eyes.

My suggestion here won't be to directly change the current effect of these combos. Instead, what I'll suggest is simple changes promoting the use of dark fields for the necromancer in the form of simple "specialization" traits affecting your combos in dark fields. My suggestions:

• Reaper: Change chilling nova into chilling sigh: your combos into dark fields also apply chill (0.5 second) on foes affected.
• Scourge: Change demonic lore effect into: your combos into dark fields also apply torment (4 seconds) on foes affected. Desert shroud now also pulse a whirl finisher every second.

Note: This probably wouldn't increase much the skill cap but it should be able to increase build diversity and make dark field a bit more popular in necromancer's builds. This can also become a signature flavor trait for each necromancer's elite specialization.

3- How to fix lich form?

Lich form isn't really an issue per se, however, like all elite transformations, it doesn't really have a place in this game. Transformations, by design, capitalize to much on flavor and are only used when they allow some form of gimmicks which often aren't good news for the game when players start to abuse them.

The simplest way to deal with lich form would be, in my opinion to just replace it with an "improved" grim specter.

• Grim specter: Now also grant 1 stack of stability for 1 second every second. CD 90 seconds.

The "hard" way would be to create a new skill that would embody the "spectral" skills' purpose (LF sustain and mostly survivability, the current Lich form being terrible at LF sustain). We could, thus, end up with something like:

• Phylactery: For the next 6 seconds you focus your health into your phylactery and can't be criticaly hit. Periodically drain life force from foes around you while under the effect of Phylactery. CD 90s.
• Sub-skill: Life spring: break your phylactery granting barrier (2k) to allies around you.

Note: all in all a much needed change in term of visual pollution in combat. I'd even suggest a lich tonic for those that may be nostalgic for the transformation, it would last longer and fit more into the "role play" than having the transformation as a "skill".

4- How to fix Scourge?

Scourge hoover between a balanced state and an imbalanced state which is difficult to assess. On one side the scourge is an oppressive existence and on another, it a mediocre specialization. The main reason behind this state is how, as a good brother of the shroud, all ecompassing the shade mechanism is. This versatility of the shade mechanism is what is oppressive and at the same time "weak".

My suggestion, here might be seen as a big "nerf" since I'll suggest to move shade skills out of "soft control" and more toward "plain support" by replacing manifest sand shade conditions by an aoe heal and a whirl finisher. In essence, I suggest:

• Manifest sand shade: now heal and create a whirl finisher when summoned and on shade skill use.
• Desert shroud: No longer deal damage and torment, instead it pulse protection on surrounding allies every second. (PvP/WvW CD turned back to 20s)
• Serpent siphon: Change the way it work to be similar to how the current summon madness work with the serpent counting as "minions". The serpent won't explode but shot toward their target and seek to hit it once before dying.

Note: This would help a lot in specializing the scourge into a support instead of the blur it is right now.

5- How to fix Minion/death magic?

Right now, death magic is in a way better shape that it used to be. With soul reaping defense being heavily impacted by the last nerf, this traitline reaped some nice buff and is on the verge of becoming a strong asset for the necromancer.

To further push the line on the right spot I suggest 2 simple trait changes and a few change on the minion's active skills:

• Beyond the veil: The necromancer no longer grant protection to it's minions but to surrounding allies when he exit the shroud.
• Flesh of the master: The health bonus to minion become baseline. The trait is renamed Will of the master and now allow the necromancer to perform a combo finisher based on the minion's active skill used. (blood fiend/wurm and bone minion's active skill create a blast finisher where the necromancer's stand. Using bone fiend's active skill create a whirl finisher at the necromancer's feet. Using shadow fiend and golem's active skill allow the necromancer to perform a leap finisher.)

Edit:6- How to fix Death shroud?

The death shroud never really felt "good" to use and with Reaper shroud and then scourge's shade mechanism, the limit of this mechanism continued to feel more and more like a slap in the face.

Death shroud skills don't need a damage buff, in itself these skill already hit hard enough. While it might be good to have some skills reworked/improved, I think that what death shroud need is mainly some CD shave.

• Dark path: CD reduced from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Life transfert: CD reduced from 40 seconds to 30 seconds.

Note: Dark path's clumsiness and overall weak power have always been a concern for the necromancers, that's why this small change only aim at balancing the power between the various "shroud skill#2". As for Life transfert's change, it's the same, the skill don't need fancy high damage, it just need to be competitive with the other skills when used coupled with the trait: transfusion.

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

while I don't think this will fix necro. it is a good foundation to be going into the right direction I feel, also maybe increase the AA speed of scepter in PVE ofc by maybe like 10% would be a nice buff to BUT IN PVE or increase the bleed duration of every bleed cast by scepter AA

[derd.6413]

i get the distinct feeling that this is more "lessening the symptomes" rather then adressing the underlying issues with necro.

edit because i'm daft: your suggestion for lich form is just dumbing it down rather then fixing anything

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I think a lot of Lich form's problems would be greatly lessened just by removing the cast time of Lich Form itself. The main reason I never use it is because I hate having a long cast time to use a moderate cast time skill after that. It just takes too long before the skill does anything at all, even if I do like the 5 skills it lets me use. Making it instant-cast for the transformation means you can immedietly start using those powerful skills, and also gives it the ability to be used to counter an incoming CC

[Teratus.2859]

I really like the Minion skills bit..I run minions on a few builds and I really like the concept in Gw2 but it does need to be improved.

One of the biggest problems with minions is that there is no command structure for them like Ranger pets so there is no way to force minions to break combat or cease attacking besides running away until they follow you.The idea of being a Minion Master when you have virtually no control over your minions is pretty funny but I do feel like we need some kind of command skills for them.. at the very least one that calls them back to you.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Dadnir.5038Great ideas, Dadnir. Here are some variants to consider.

1. Defiance corruption shortens the time until the break bar phase comes up.
2. Combo finishers are split between PvP and PvE to buff some combo's in PvE and some fields can change type depending upon specialization.
3. In addition to your stability idea, also have the elite skill improve other Spectral skills when used such as reducing recharge or increasing effect duration for a burst.
4. And 5. Add a group support mechanism to Death Magic to increase Scourge support as well as support options for other specializations at a dps cost.

Enabling some group support in DM could make it legitimate and provide another option besides healing or barrier. Core and Reaper need a second support option aside from BM while DM support on power-Scourge or DM + BM barrier slave could be interesting.

[Electra.7530]

@"Teratus.2859" said:I really like the Minion skills bit..I run minions on a few builds and I really like the concept in Gw2 but it does need to be improved.

One of the biggest problems with minions is that there is no command structure for them like Ranger pets so there is no way to force minions to break combat or cease attacking besides running away until they follow you.The idea of being a Minion Master when you have virtually no control over your minions is pretty funny but I do feel like we need some kind of command skills for them.. at the very least one that calls them back to you.

I think giving a necro command of their minions is a sharp stab at rangers. Why command one pet when you can command several minions to do your bidding? It might have an unexpected negative impact on the ranger class.

My idea of minions is that they are "mindless" attendants that have no purpose other than to follow and serve you. Is that really different than a pet? Well, a pet is a beloved friend. Minions aren't.

[Teratus.2859]

@Electra.7530 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:I really like the Minion skills bit..I run minions on a few builds and I really like the concept in Gw2 but it does need to be improved.

One of the biggest problems with minions is that there is no command structure for them like Ranger pets so there is no way to force minions to break combat or cease attacking besides running away until they follow you.The idea of being a Minion Master when you have virtually no control over your minions is pretty funny but I do feel like we need some kind of command skills for them.. at the very least one that calls them back to you.

I think giving a necro command of their minions is a sharp stab at rangers. Why command one pet when you can command several minions to do your bidding? It might have an unexpected negative impact on the ranger class.

My idea of minions is that they are "mindless" attendants that have no purpose other than to follow and serve you. Is that really different than a pet? Well, a pet is a beloved friend. Minions aren't.

I'm a Ranger main myself but stil want this kind of control over my minions.Some may feel that way but I honestly wouldn't as i'm only asking for a way to force minions to break combat and flee with their master.

This could easily be remedied by giving Ranger pets more funtionality as well.Not neccessarily more skills or anything like that but give them actual pet/companion mechanics..

One of the things that kinda annoyed me a little while back was the Dog whistle gem store item, when I first saw that my first reaction was.. why is this not a mechanical feature for Ranger pets?Ranger pets in all honesty are pets only in name, they have no bonding or play mechanics and aside from naming them they have absolutely no pet like qualities.A chunk of them are basically clones of one another too with equal stats and sometimes skills as well.

They could add a great deal of interactive features for Rangers to play with their pets.. that would give them a whole dimension over minions and any other kind of summon.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Electra.7530 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I really like the Minion skills bit..I run minions on a few builds and I really like the concept in Gw2 but it does need to be improved.

One of the biggest problems with minions is that there is no command structure for them like Ranger pets so there is no way to force minions to break combat or cease attacking besides running away until they follow you.The idea of being a Minion Master when you have virtually no control over your minions is pretty funny but I do feel like we need some kind of command skills for them.. at the very least one that calls them back to you.

I think giving a necro command of their minions is a sharp stab at rangers. Why command one pet when you can command several minions to do your bidding? It might have an unexpected negative impact on the ranger class.

My idea of minions is that they are "mindless" attendants that have no purpose other than to follow and serve you. Is that really different than a pet? Well, a pet is a beloved friend. Minions aren't.

I'm a Ranger main myself but stil want this kind of control over my minions.Some may feel that way but I honestly wouldn't as i'm only asking for a way to force minions to break combat and flee with their master.

This could easily be remedied by giving Ranger pets more funtionality as well.Not neccessarily more skills or anything like that but give them actual pet/companion mechanics..

One of the things that kinda annoyed me a little while back was the Dog whistle gem store item, when I first saw that my first reaction was.. why is this not a mechanical feature for Ranger pets?Ranger pets in all honesty are pets only in name, they have no bonding or play mechanics and aside from naming them they have absolutely no pet like qualities.A chunk of them are basically clones of one another too with equal stats and sometimes skills as well.

They could add a great deal of interactive features for Rangers to play with their pets.. that would give them a whole dimension over minions and any other kind of summon.

As a side note, (please forgive the diversion, Dadnir), I have always desired a better AI for pets and mobs in this game. Dodge red circles, counter long-tell skills; that sort of thing.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

1. Boon corruption. It's already partially addressed in fractals - there it matters a lot. Number one problem boon being protection - if you don't rip it, fight may take up to 50% longer.

In open world pve - just give necro traits that makes corrupts do power damage - like Daredevil's Impacting Disruption, just for corrupts. And obviously equip mobs with more boons, like protection, retalliation, maybe some quickness..

[Sigmoid.7082]

Replacing lich form with grim spectre is enough of an improvement and you wouldn't need to do anything else but increase its cooldown to 60~90s or keep the KD low but lower the values. No need for stab.

The cooldown would allow it to better interact with runes that work on elite skill use. All of which have fairly powerful effects and not being tied to the forms skills would allow for far more flexibility. It would fit into so many builds and add a few more just with this single change.

Look at it:

• It does 778 + 20% total power giving it a base value of 978. You don't really stack as much might inside lich as you do outside so it just gets stronger. The healing is just as good with a little healing power/earth runes/VP especially at 5 targets. Especially since:
• Its life siphon so its healing works through shroud for core and reaper.
• Its also unblockable
• Grants up to 6kHp and, more importantly, ~5k LF for 15~20s.

I would even take the old version of the skill as a stand alone elite.

[Nimon.7840]

Hm... About deathmagic:I don't think it got better. The traitline is still lackluster for anything else than minion builds (which you can honestly only use in open world)

I do use it on one particular build though, because it gives me some defense via protection. But it's a pretty gimmicky build.

The real problem I have is how the Devs try to make deathmagic better. They aren't buffing the traitline itself, like they would do on literally every other class, they just hardnerf the sustain/defense out of every other traitline.

AND THATS PRETTY ANNOYING!

Especially if you look at ... Warrior, that still has passive invincibility.

I'd also like to see some changes to staff. Make it a more supporty weapon, less aoe spam (especially considering wvw)But there are also other things that need some serious work focus4

[Dadnir.5038]

First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) . @Sigmoid.7082 : Still I'd prefer to keep a bit of stability amongst the necromancer's tools.

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

1. Boon corruption. It's already partially addressed in fractals - there it matters a lot. Number one problem boon being protection - if you don't rip it, fight may take up to 50% longer.

In open world pve - just give necro traits that makes corrupts do power damage - like Daredevil's Impacting Disruption, just for corrupts. And obviously equip mobs with more boons, like protection, retalliation, maybe some quickness..

But, like you say it's only partially adressed, only in fractal and like I say, the more player you got bashing at a single foe, the less impact the mechanism get. Bringing more boons in PvE objectively won't make boon corruption better in fight where you are 10 players facing a single foe, in fact it might just make things worse. In GW1 where mobs were designed around having "boons" and supporting each other, boon corruption was adapted, but in GW2 mobs just aren't close to be designed the right way to make this work.

Also, power damage on boon corruption is bound to create issues in PvP/WvW leading the kind of mechanism to rot into a non crit thing while PvE would need the thing to be able to crit as hard as possible. And since ANet's policies is to avoid mechanism splits, it make the idea extremly unlikely.

@"Nimon.7840" said:Especially if you look at ... Warrior, that still has passive invincibility.

It isn't "Passive invincibility", it's "Passive power damage immunity". The difference is huge and the counter is condition damages. Also, most professions have similar traits with ranger's, thief's and elementalist's having almost the same degree of efficacity. Don't spit on warriors because they are an easy target to spit on, please! This kind of trait is pretty common in game.

The real problem I have is how the Devs try to make deathmagic better. They aren't buffing the traitline itself, like they would do on literally every other class, they just hardnerf the sustain/defense out of every other traitline.

Dark defiance was a flat buff to the traitline. More access to protection and potentially 20% more defense against condition damage. Yes it would be neet to have better access to protection like guardian's hammer auto attack but the necromancer is far from being "bad" at generating protection.

[derd.6413]

@"Dadnir.5038" said:First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) .

i get what you were trying to do but you did it in the laziest/thoughtless way possible. you seemingly looked at lich form in isolation rather then as a part of necro.

it also doesn't help that "grim specter" is basically "life transfer" ++

[Dadnir.5038]

@derd.6413 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form

: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) .

i get what you were trying to do but you did it in the laziest/thoughtless way possible. you seemingly looked at lich form in isolation rather then as a part of necro.

it also doesn't help that "grim specter" is basically "life transfer" ++

It's difficult to look at something that have such a short uptime as part of anything while having grim specter being an elite version of life transfert is in fact quite a good thing for an, you know, "elite skill".

[derd.6413]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form

: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) .

i get what you were trying to do but you did it in the laziest/thoughtless way possible. you seemingly looked at lich form in isolation rather then as a part of necro.

it also doesn't help that "grim specter" is basically "life transfer" ++

It's difficult to look at something that have such a short uptime as part of anything

"but iz hard" is the excuse of the lazy, miss me with that weak sauce.

while having grim specter being an elite version of life transfert is in fact quite a good thing for an, you know, "elite skill".

next you're gonna tell me that plaguelands needs to be replaced with a 5 target version of "corrupt boon" and flesh golem replaced with 5 bone minions. (bad comparison because at least they're better version of skills in their skilltype rather then a skill all core necros have)

[Nimon.7840]

@"Dadnir.5038" said:First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) . @Sigmoid.7082 : Still I'd prefer to keep a bit of stability amongst the necromancer's tools.

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

1. Boon corruption. It's already partially addressed in fractals - there it matters a lot. Number one problem boon being protection - if you don't rip it, fight may take up to 50% longer.

In open world pve - just give necro traits that makes corrupts do power damage - like Daredevil's Impacting Disruption, just for corrupts. And obviously equip mobs with more boons, like protection, retalliation, maybe some quickness..

But, like you say it's only partially adressed, only in fractal and like I say, the more player you got bashing at a single foe, the less impact the mechanism get. Bringing more boons in PvE objectively won't make boon corruption better in fight where you are 10 players facing a single foe, in fact it might just make things worse. In GW1 where mobs were designed around having "boons" and supporting each other, boon corruption was adapted, but in GW2 mobs just aren't close to be designed the right way to make this work.

Also, power damage on boon corruption is bound to create issues in PvP/WvW leading the kind of mechanism to rot into a non crit thing while PvE would need the thing to be able to crit as hard as possible. And since ANet's policies is to avoid mechanism splits, it make the idea extremly unlikely.

@"Nimon.7840" said:Especially if you look at ... Warrior, that still has passive invincibility.

It isn't "Passive invincibility", it's "Passive power damage immunity". The difference is huge and the counter is condition damages. Also, most professions have similar traits with ranger's, thief's and elementalist's having almost the same degree of efficacity. Don't spit on warriors because they are an easy target to spit on, please! This kind of trait is pretty common in game.

That was just an example. I could have also named the other classes.

The real problem I have is how the Devs try to make deathmagic better. They aren't buffing the traitline itself, like they would do on literally every other class, they just hardnerf the sustain/defense out of every other traitline.

Dark defiance

was a flat buff to the traitline. More access to protection and potentially 20% more defense against condition damage. Yes it would be neet to have better access to protection like guardian's hammer auto attack but the necromancer is far from being "bad" at generating protection.

And I don't think that dark defiance was the buff, the buff was needing last gasp. Making soulreaping having no sustain/defensive trait

[Dadnir.5038]

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form

: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) .

i get what you were trying to do but you did it in the laziest/thoughtless way possible. you seemingly looked at lich form in isolation rather then as a part of necro.

it also doesn't help that "grim specter" is basically "life transfer" ++

It's difficult to look at something that have such a short uptime as part of anything

"but iz hard" is the excuse of the lazy, miss me with that weak sauce.

Let's reword things then: Elite transformation skills tend to have short uptime which make building familiarity with them very difficult. In particular, lich form skills were even totally change from a "mark" form to "conventional" skills, destroying any past effort to build familiarity. If you add to that that balance history had 4 "elite transformations" already returned to digital dust and that transforming into a big and clumsy green bibendum isn't really what I picture as profession's defining, I think I have a background solid enough to justify a more simple and accessible form of elite skill to replace Lich form.

while having

grim specter

being an elite version of

life transfert

is in fact quite a good thing for an, you know, "elite skill".

next you're gonna tell me that plaguelands needs to be replaced with a 5 target version of "corrupt boon" and flesh golem replaced with 5 bone minions. (bad comparison because at least they're better version of skills in their skilltype rather then a skill all core necros have)

Well, you've said it all...

[derd.6413]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form

: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) .

i get what you were trying to do but you did it in the laziest/thoughtless way possible. you seemingly looked at lich form in isolation rather then as a part of necro.

it also doesn't help that "grim specter" is basically "life transfer" ++

It's difficult to look at something that have such a short uptime as part of anything

"but iz hard" is the excuse of the lazy, miss me with that weak sauce.

Let's reword things then: Elite transformation skills tend to have short uptime which make building familiarity with them very difficult. In particular, lich form skills were even totally change from a "mark" form to "conventional" skills, destroying any past effort to build familiarity. If you add to that that balance history had 4 "elite transformations" already returned to digital dust and that transforming into a big and clumsy green bibendum isn't really what I picture as profession's defining, I think I have a background solid enough to justify a more simple and accessible form of elite skill to replace Lich form.

i never said "don't change lich form" i said "if you're gonna change lich form, put some darn effort into it."

while having

grim specter

being an elite version of

life transfert

is in fact quite a good thing for an, you know, "elite skill".

next you're gonna tell me that plaguelands needs to be replaced with a 5 target version of "corrupt boon" and flesh golem replaced with 5 bone minions. (bad comparison because at least they're better version of skills in their skilltype rather then a skill all core necros have)

Well, you've said it all...

i meant that my examples were a bad comparison because they don't properly show just how bad your suggestion is..

it's like giving necro a point blank aoe fear as an elite but it also torments and gives the necro swiftness.

[Kuulpb.5412]

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form

: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) .

i get what you were trying to do but you did it in the laziest/thoughtless way possible. you seemingly looked at lich form in isolation rather then as a part of necro.

it also doesn't help that "grim specter" is basically "life transfer" ++

It's difficult to look at something that have such a short uptime as part of anything

"but iz hard" is the excuse of the lazy, miss me with that weak sauce.

Let's reword things then: Elite transformation skills tend to have short uptime which make building familiarity with them very difficult. In particular, lich form skills were even totally change from a "mark" form to "conventional" skills, destroying any past effort to build familiarity. If you add to that that balance history had 4 "elite transformations" already returned to digital dust and that transforming into a big and clumsy green bibendum isn't really what I picture as profession's defining, I think I have a background solid enough to justify a more simple and accessible form of elite skill to replace Lich form.

i never said "don't change lich form" i said "if you're gonna change lich form, put some darn effort into it."

while having

grim specter

being an elite version of

life transfert

is in fact quite a good thing for an, you know, "elite skill".

next you're gonna tell me that plaguelands needs to be replaced with a 5 target version of "corrupt boon" and flesh golem replaced with 5 bone minions. (bad comparison because at least they're better version of skills in their skilltype rather then a skill all core necros have)

Well, you've said it all...

i meant that my examples were a bad comparison because they don't properly show just how bad your suggestion is..

it's like giving necro a point blank aoe fear as an elite but it also torments and gives the necro swiftness.

It's weird how necro has no "targeted fear" Except in death shroud, the only one(s) outside is are staff 5 and a ring

[derd.6413]

@Kuulpb.5412 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:First of all, I appreciate the feedbacks, thanks!

Lich form

: Outside the fact that I don't like the visual and feel of the transformation, for me 99% of the issue with this transformation is "accessibility". So, Yes I am dumbing down the process. ;) .

i get what you were trying to do but you did it in the laziest/thoughtless way possible. you seemingly looked at lich form in isolation rather then as a part of necro.

it also doesn't help that "grim specter" is basically "life transfer" ++

It's difficult to look at something that have such a short uptime as part of anything

"but iz hard" is the excuse of the lazy, miss me with that weak sauce.

Let's reword things then: Elite transformation skills tend to have short uptime which make building familiarity with them very difficult. In particular, lich form skills were even totally change from a "mark" form to "conventional" skills, destroying any past effort to build familiarity. If you add to that that balance history had 4 "elite transformations" already returned to digital dust and that transforming into a big and clumsy green bibendum isn't really what I picture as profession's defining, I think I have a background solid enough to justify a more simple and accessible form of elite skill to replace Lich form.

i never said "don't change lich form" i said "if you're gonna change lich form, put some darn effort into it."

while having

grim specter

being an elite version of

life transfert

is in fact quite a good thing for an, you know, "elite skill".

next you're gonna tell me that plaguelands needs to be replaced with a 5 target version of "corrupt boon" and flesh golem replaced with 5 bone minions. (bad comparison because at least they're better version of skills in their skilltype rather then a skill all core necros have)

Well, you've said it all...

i meant that my examples were a bad comparison because they don't properly show just how bad your suggestion is..

it's like giving necro a point blank aoe fear as an elite but it also torments and gives the necro swiftness.

It's weird how necro has no "targeted fear" Except in death shroud, the only one(s) outside is are staff 5 and a ring

don't forget lich form 3 and down state.

it's not much but it's still most of the fear skills in the game

[Dadnir.5038]

Added a 2nd possibility to replace Lich form.

The "hard" way would be to create a new skill that would embody the "spectral" skills' purpose (LF sustain and mostly survivability, the current Lich form being terrible at LF sustain). We could, thus, end up with something like:

• Phylactery: For the next 6 seconds you focus your health into your phylactery and can't be criticaly hit. Periodically drain life force from foes around you while under the effect of Phylactery. CD 90s.
• Sub-skill: Life spring: break your phylactery granting barrier (2k) to allies around you.

[Dadnir.5038]

Added change suggestions for death shroud.

6- How to fix Death shroud?

The death shroud never really felt "good" to use and with Reaper shroud and then scourge's shade mechanism, the limit of this mechanism continued to feel more and more like a slap in the face.

Death shroud skills don't need a damage buff, in itself these skill already hit hard enough. While it might be good to have some skills reworked/improved, I think that what death shroud need is mainly some CD shave.

• Dark path: CD reduced from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Life transfert: CD reduced from 40 seconds to 30 seconds.

Note: Dark path's clumsiness and overall weak power have always been a concern for the necromancers, that's why this small change only aim at balancing the power between the various "shroud skill#2". As for Life transfert's change, it's the same, the skill don't need fancy high damage, it just need to be competitive with the other skills when used coupled with the trait: transfusion.

[Brujeria.7536]

Im sorry, but i have to disagree with almost all of these changes.

1. The boon corrupt idea is good for PvE at least. The outcome is basicly more DPS and more CC, while i think thats not THE solution, its a solution. The better solution would be just to increase the stacks of condi necro skills do. Plain and simple
2. Darkfields in general are bad, but not every class needs to be good at combo fields. Sure, necro has bare to none things in exchange for the lack of combo finishers, but forcing these interactions into elite specs is a bad idea. The entire base class does not support combo finishers, so in reverse its not that critical that darkfields suck. If you want a gamewide change to darkfields make them pulse blind every few seconds. So the class with the least combo finishers at least has the only combo field reliable that does something without needing a finisher
3. Lich Form, conceptual, is fine. It just does not work with the rest of the kit like Rampage for warriors do. Warrior is tanky by default and gets further tankyness by using rampage. He can precast stances and gets free stances at certain health intervalls to keep the offensive going. Rampage skills are quick, powerfull and full of CC. Necro in exchange just gets the wrong stats. Most builds do not need more precision, necro has very good traits for that. What Lich form needs is safety: either add some form of general damage reduction or thougness or give it a separate shroud healthbar. Then tune the skills as needed. This serves as a second wind, a window to reduce skill cooldowns, while being powerfull and not being so reliable on health.
4. Scourge i think conceptual is fine. The only problem is they add a support spec to a class without a support weapon / weaponset. The skills are not really that overtuned, in my opinion, or clustered with effects. The only "problem" so to speak is the WvW community. Scourge is easy to use, but other classes could do the things a scourge can much better - albeit its way harder to achieve and thus not meta. Meta in WvW mostly means easy and reliable, not optimal on an individual level.
5. Deathmagic does need better traits and a concept. The Minion theme is a big part of death magic, but minions are not a big part of the necromancer class. Its just a set of utility skills. Rework the Traitline with a focus on barrier and thougness / damage reduction. And i mean meaningfull, reliable damage reduction, not 300 thougness.
6. Deathshroud needs more than a cooldown reduction. The Problem it has is: its all over the place. It has no real condi pressure for condi builds, its kit is outdated for power builds, it has no mobility and its our main damage reduction concept. Yet damage reduction means in this case you loose either a lot of pressure while using it or you are even more of a sitting duck. The biggest defense in this meta is mobility, complete damage reduction, or , to some extend, reliable CC. Necro does not have these things. You wont fix the main problems by reducing some cooldown here and there.

[Axl.8924]

Personally I agree with brujeria on this. Necro is hard pressed to be able to survive any event without decent reliable tools. In pve its different, you can predict movements, but in pvp its not so predictable, and you get a lot of people at once stacking on you with more mobility and invulns, plus you get cced to death to make sure you cannot escape and just get blown up.

Much like how elementalist has tools that they use for pvp only in their builds, we need some stuff from death magic which can be used for pvp. Some could even work in pve I assume, since we are so slow, that we need to be tanky, somewhat like death knights are.

Also don't forget that in wow, they made a huge mistake, and I think its important one: Warlocks were nerfed in sustain and mobility. They were supposed to be a tanky slow class that is able to sustain and survive because they are slow and lack tools to escape. They got nerfed, and now they get blown up because they are made of paper mache without the active defenses. I think active and even non active defenses have their place.