Speedy Conduit, Tempest trait, underwhelming effect. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Speedy Conduit, Tempest trait, underwhelming effect.

Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 27, 2019 in Elementalist

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speedy_Conduit

All it does is give swiftness to the class mechanic, something that should be baseline with the class mechanic, rather than taking a whole spot for a much important second tier trait. Almost all classes have something unique or special about their traits for elites, yet this one seems highly uninspired, and adds nothing new to the mechanic.

My suggestion: when overloading gain a small barrier every hit per target enemy or ally hit by the overload. Nothing too crazy, maybe 200-300 barrier per target, and since barrier decays, it wont be as problematic as a heal.

It would promote using the skill to hit as many targets as possible, while giving eles a mean to stand in the middle of the fight and not be randomly deleted from stray AoE going around, and since it scales based on how many targets it hits it wont be used to bunker up, since water overload wont hit enemies and would only hit you if you are alone. It would promote aggressive play with fire/air overload since it would give you the means to withstand some heat in teamfights where you become an easy target while you are channeling a skill for 4 seconds.

Comments

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Far to strong for a minor trait. Especially with air overload.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    Far to strong for a minor trait. Especially with air overload.

    Air overload is the only overload that hits 3 targets rather than 5, I think that already balances it out.

    Also, if you think thats too strong, I will remind you that we have "minor traits" in other professions that change the way those speccs play. They are very impactful and are not a single, short lived boon that is easy to get. When you read those traits you know what that class is all about:
     
     
    -Spellbreaker: CC removes boons on enemies.
    -Firebrand: equipping/unequipping tomes grant quickness.
    -Holo: gain health per heat lost
    -DE: gain their steal and regeneration on target dying
    -Mirage: gain vigor on shatters and gain condi damage under vigor
    -Chrono: gain alacrity per clone shattered
    -Scourage: gain concentration and expertise per shade active
    -Berserker: gain condi and direct damage when entering or exiting berserker mode
     
     
     
    I could go on and on, but as you see, all those do something unique and relevant to the elite, they are flavorful, they complement the mechanic of the class.

    Meanwhile, we get a few seconds of swiftness on a class that doesnt have any issues getting swiftness, a very common boon that comes from just about a thousand other skills from other classes too, and does not describe what tempest is all about (other than maybe running away in fear of their lives?).

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Barrier would fit but you cant make it an aggive barrier as water dose not hit at all maybe a pulsing barrier during overload. What they need to do with speedy conduit is combined it with Lucid Singularity or Harmonious Conduit and make it an super speed during overload.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    Far to strong for a minor trait. Especially with air overload.

    Air overload is the only overload that hits 3 targets rather than 5, I think that already balances it out.

    Air overload hits 3 targets since the number of strikes is so high. 14 on a single target over its whole duration. The amount of barrier it would allow you to gain would be far too high. Even the weaver trait elemental refreshment grants 434 barrier when you use a duel skill. This would cause air overload to generate 3-4k barrier per target over its duration.

    Combine this with fresh air and normal ele heals and it would quickly get out of hand when it comes to sustain.

    Is the trait currently impactful? Maybe not but your idea is just far too strong.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    Far to strong for a minor trait. Especially with air overload.

    Air overload is the only overload that hits 3 targets rather than 5, I think that already balances it out.

    Air overload hits 3 targets since the number of strikes is so high. 14 on a single target over its whole duration. The amount of barrier it would allow you to gain would be far too high. Even the weaver trait elemental refreshment grants 434 barrier when you use a duel skill. This would cause air overload to generate 3-4k barrier per target over its duration.

    Combine this with fresh air and normal ele heals and it would quickly get out of hand when it comes to sustain.

    Is the trait currently impactful? Maybe not but your idea is just far too strong.

    Well, thats why numbers can be tweaked, even given different values based on the attunement overload! Also, it could be done that only the initial cast (not the skill that remains afterwards) get the barrier, which is the moment where we are most vulnerable.

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Barrier would fit but you cant make it an aggive barrier as water dose not hit at all maybe a pulsing barrier during overload. What they need to do with speedy conduit is combined it with Lucid Singularity or Harmonious Conduit and make it an super speed during overload.

    I did cover that, as I said, hits on enemies or allies, so water overload would give barrier on allies "hits". Also while superspeed sounds fun, I dont think running around is the issue unless you are using the overload to run away, or get into the battle, I would rather be given the tools to be able to stand in the middle of the fight for a whole 4 seconds, unable to cast any other (non instant) skill, change attunements or dodge to defend myself.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think it's fine tbh, remember you're pretty much comparing it to minors in pretty much all PoF specs which are all far too strong and need toning down.

    Besides I like having perma swiftness just by using overloads.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I think it's fine tbh, remember you're pretty much comparing it to minors in pretty much all PoF specs which are all far too strong and need toning down.

    Besides I like having perma swiftness just by using overloads.

    Look at the other Minor Master for all classes and line swiftness is nothing and saying perma swiftness is worth it because you like it your forgetting all of the other perma swiftness effects in the game. Even ele can have perma swiftness with out overloads and they are better for it as waiting a 20 sec cd atument is a lot for such a weak and easy to get boon.

    Side note some one realy needs to make up a side by side for traits for each line and class to make it easy to see just how bad the balancing is.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I think it's fine tbh, remember you're pretty much comparing it to minors in pretty much all PoF specs which are all far too strong and need toning down.

    Besides I like having perma swiftness just by using overloads.

    Very well, you think that was only PoF? Here are HoT only:
    [✓] Relevant to the class mechanic                                          [   ] Not relevant to the class mechanic.

     
    -DH: [✓] Blocking an attack causes Justice to reach its maximum charge and reduces the cooldown of Spear of Justice by 3 seconds. (aegis easy to get with traps, and guardians already wanna block a lot)

    -Herald: [✓?] Gain 10% increased maximum health. (it might not be complementary(?), but it is very strong for a minor trait, and better than a common buff)

    -Berserker: [✓] Gain increased damage and condition damage when you enter or exit berserk mode. (cant be debuffed, strong and unique and can be upkept most of the fight)

    -Scrapper:[✓] When you successfully revive an ally or finish an enemy, you grant barrier and great speed to nearby allies. (support class, very tanky, now tankier, 2 unique very strong buffs that cant be debuffed)

    -Druid: [✓] When you heal an ally, you are also healed. (healer that gets healed by healing, perfect)

    -Daredevil: [✓] Gain health when you successfully evade an attack. (evade especialization, rewarded for doing so)

    -Chronomancer: [✓] Gain alacrity for each clone you shatter. (mesmers = clones + shatters, alacrity defines chrono)

    -Reaper: [✓?] Whenever you inflict fear, you also chill. (not bad but not the best either. Does go with the chill theme even if they play as an industrial tractor)

    -Tempest: [   ] Easy to get boon through multiple sources and classes, low duration, do not enhance class mechanic in almost any way.
     
     
     
    Like this is not being biased, this is being objective. That trait is simply painfully underwhelming when compared to the speccs released during HoT and PoF, even weaver has a better minor.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I think it's fine tbh, remember you're pretty much comparing it to minors in pretty much all PoF specs which are all far too strong and need toning down.

    Besides I like having perma swiftness just by using overloads.

    Very well, you think that was only PoF? Here are HoT only:
    [✓] Relevant to the class mechanic                                          [   ] Not relevant to the class mechanic.

     
    -DH: [✓] Blocking an attack causes Justice to reach its maximum charge and reduces the cooldown of Spear of Justice by 3 seconds. (aegis easy to get with traps, and guardians already wanna block a lot)

    -Herald: [✓?] Gain 10% increased maximum health. (it might not be complementary(?), but it is very strong for a minor trait, and better than a common buff)

    -Berserker: [✓] Gain increased damage and condition damage when you enter or exit berserk mode. (cant be debuffed, strong and unique and can be upkept most of the fight)

    -Scrapper:[✓] When you successfully revive an ally or finish an enemy, you grant barrier and great speed to nearby allies. (support class, very tanky, now tankier, 2 unique very strong buffs that cant be debuffed)

    -Druid: [✓] When you heal an ally, you are also healed. (healer that gets healed by healing, perfect)

    -Daredevil: [✓] Gain health when you successfully evade an attack. (evade especialization, rewarded for doing so)

    -Chronomancer: [✓] Gain alacrity for each clone you shatter. (mesmers = clones + shatters, alacrity defines chrono)

    -Reaper: [✓?] Whenever you inflict fear, you also chill. (not bad but not the best either. Does go with the chill theme even if they play as an industrial tractor)

    -Tempest: [   ] Easy to get boon through multiple sources and classes, low duration, do not enhance class mechanic in almost any way.
     
     
     
    Like this is not being biased, this is being objective. That trait is simply painfully underwhelming when compared to the speccs released during HoT and PoF, even weaver has a better minor.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swiftness

    Swiftness for ele you need to trait to get in specific ways at a decent rate to keep permanent. Speedy conduit gives you 8s base swiftness (that's not low duration) on overload making it easy to keep 100% uptime. You are faster so you can get to and support allies better without having to trait into arcane or air lines which would hinder your support. You don't have to run glyph of elemental harmony or anything else to keep it up. Without this trait you'd need movement speed and to take other traits lowering your support performance.

    If you think swiftness is not worth having try playing a game without any movement speed, it's horrible.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I think it's fine tbh, remember you're pretty much comparing it to minors in pretty much all PoF specs which are all far too strong and need toning down.

    Besides I like having perma swiftness just by using overloads.

    Very well, you think that was only PoF? Here are HoT only:
    [✓] Relevant to the class mechanic                                          [   ] Not relevant to the class mechanic.

     
    -DH: [✓] Blocking an attack causes Justice to reach its maximum charge and reduces the cooldown of Spear of Justice by 3 seconds. (aegis easy to get with traps, and guardians already wanna block a lot)

    -Herald: [✓?] Gain 10% increased maximum health. (it might not be complementary(?), but it is very strong for a minor trait, and better than a common buff)

    -Berserker: [✓] Gain increased damage and condition damage when you enter or exit berserk mode. (cant be debuffed, strong and unique and can be upkept most of the fight)

    -Scrapper:[✓] When you successfully revive an ally or finish an enemy, you grant barrier and great speed to nearby allies. (support class, very tanky, now tankier, 2 unique very strong buffs that cant be debuffed)

    -Druid: [✓] When you heal an ally, you are also healed. (healer that gets healed by healing, perfect)

    -Daredevil: [✓] Gain health when you successfully evade an attack. (evade especialization, rewarded for doing so)

    -Chronomancer: [✓] Gain alacrity for each clone you shatter. (mesmers = clones + shatters, alacrity defines chrono)

    -Reaper: [✓?] Whenever you inflict fear, you also chill. (not bad but not the best either. Does go with the chill theme even if they play as an industrial tractor)

    -Tempest: [   ] Easy to get boon through multiple sources and classes, low duration, do not enhance class mechanic in almost any way.
     
     
     
    Like this is not being biased, this is being objective. That trait is simply painfully underwhelming when compared to the speccs released during HoT and PoF, even weaver has a better minor.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swiftness

    Swiftness for ele you need to trait to get in specific ways at a decent rate to keep permanent. Speedy conduit gives you 8s base swiftness (that's not low duration) on overload making it easy to keep 100% uptime. You are faster so you can get to and support allies better without having to trait into arcane or air lines which would hinder your support. You don't have to run glyph of elemental harmony or anything else to keep it up. Without this trait you'd need movement speed and to take other traits lowering your support performance.

    If you think swiftness is not worth having try playing a game without any movement speed, it's horrible.

    I understand what you say, but I'm not saying swiftness is bad, all Im saying it is not worth taking the slot, it should be baseline, like protection, most other classes gain multiple boons from 1 single trait, why cant we?

    If they insist on it being a form of speed, then make it super speed F F S!

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I think it's fine tbh, remember you're pretty much comparing it to minors in pretty much all PoF specs which are all far too strong and need toning down.

    Besides I like having perma swiftness just by using overloads.

    Very well, you think that was only PoF? Here are HoT only:
    [✓] Relevant to the class mechanic                                          [   ] Not relevant to the class mechanic.

     
    -DH: [✓] Blocking an attack causes Justice to reach its maximum charge and reduces the cooldown of Spear of Justice by 3 seconds. (aegis easy to get with traps, and guardians already wanna block a lot)

    -Herald: [✓?] Gain 10% increased maximum health. (it might not be complementary(?), but it is very strong for a minor trait, and better than a common buff)

    -Berserker: [✓] Gain increased damage and condition damage when you enter or exit berserk mode. (cant be debuffed, strong and unique and can be upkept most of the fight)

    -Scrapper:[✓] When you successfully revive an ally or finish an enemy, you grant barrier and great speed to nearby allies. (support class, very tanky, now tankier, 2 unique very strong buffs that cant be debuffed)

    -Druid: [✓] When you heal an ally, you are also healed. (healer that gets healed by healing, perfect)

    -Daredevil: [✓] Gain health when you successfully evade an attack. (evade especialization, rewarded for doing so)

    -Chronomancer: [✓] Gain alacrity for each clone you shatter. (mesmers = clones + shatters, alacrity defines chrono)

    -Reaper: [✓?] Whenever you inflict fear, you also chill. (not bad but not the best either. Does go with the chill theme even if they play as an industrial tractor)

    -Tempest: [   ] Easy to get boon through multiple sources and classes, low duration, do not enhance class mechanic in almost any way.
     
     
     
    Like this is not being biased, this is being objective. That trait is simply painfully underwhelming when compared to the speccs released during HoT and PoF, even weaver has a better minor.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swiftness

    Swiftness for ele you need to trait to get in specific ways at a decent rate to keep permanent. Speedy conduit gives you 8s base swiftness (that's not low duration) on overload making it easy to keep 100% uptime. You are faster so you can get to and support allies better without having to trait into arcane or air lines which would hinder your support. You don't have to run glyph of elemental harmony or anything else to keep it up. Without this trait you'd need movement speed and to take other traits lowering your support performance.

    If you think swiftness is not worth having try playing a game without any movement speed, it's horrible.

    I understand what you say, but I'm not saying swiftness is bad, all Im saying it is not worth taking the slot, it should be baseline, like protection, most other classes gain multiple boons from 1 single trait, why cant we?

    If they insist on it being a form of speed, then make it super speed F F S!

    Personally I'd rather see others toned down to this level tbh as one of the reasons why the game is in a power creeped mess right now is because minors give so much or the elite spec gives too much baseline, looking at you tomes.

  • @apharma.3741 said:
    Personally I'd rather see others toned down to this level tbh as one of the reasons why the game is in a power creeped mess right now is because minors give so much or the elite spec gives too much baseline, looking at you tomes.

    Sure. Fine. But we all know that its far easier for Anet, who seems to spend virtually no resources balancing this game, to just buff tempest. It would take Anet, at their current rate of balance, about 3 years to nerf all specs down to tempest power level. Not viable and so I advocate for tempest buffs.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think I never thought of slotting this trait. Anyway, there's still 4s swiftness left after overloading... I'd consider it if swiftness granted protection.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Enigmoid.1264 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Personally I'd rather see others toned down to this level tbh as one of the reasons why the game is in a power creeped mess right now is because minors give so much or the elite spec gives too much baseline, looking at you tomes.

    Sure. Fine. But we all know that its far easier for Anet, who seems to spend virtually no resources balancing this game, to just buff tempest. It would take Anet, at their current rate of balance, about 3 years to nerf all specs down to tempest power level. Not viable and so I advocate for tempest buffs.

    You can't keep buffing stuff though, the game is already a mess, look at my sig, 75% of people in the PvP forums thinks damage is too high (most think everything is too power creeped) and PvP has stat caps and limited stat types. I don't care if it takes 3 years, they need to start curbing the power creep or they will find player retention drops significantly.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I think I never thought of slotting this trait. Anyway, there's still 4s swiftness left after overloading... I'd consider it if swiftness granted protection.

    You dont slot this, it is the always on minor trait. Hence why this discussion, we are stuck with a weak trait when other classes (who are stronger than ele) have traits that are complementary to their elite.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I think I never thought of slotting this trait. Anyway, there's still 4s swiftness left after overloading... I'd consider it if swiftness granted protection.

    You dont slot this, it is the always on minor trait. Hence why this discussion, we are stuck with a weak trait when other classes (who are stronger than ele) have traits that are complementary to their elite.

    Ah thx, I totally forgot about this. Well, weak trait is part of Ele's mechanic.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭

    I was also thinking, instead Speedy Conduit could give us 4 seconds of Super-speed (overload duration) instead.

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