Why majority of WvW players stopped giving feedback. - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why majority of WvW players stopped giving feedback.

2

Answers

  • Rayya.2591Rayya.2591 Member ✭✭✭

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    I feel like this is very constructive feedback here. The biggest problem with this game are the matchups and the server pairings, yet taking about them is against the rules. Not sure if this is the proper word to use but it is paradoxical or a oxymoron and it triggers the entire WvW community and all of the players who play this game and its why no one wants to post of these forums, to ever give any feedback.

    there was not any update from A-net regarding a dedicated wvw team with enough manpower to make changes. There were no major changes in wvw in the past , and the feedbacks were mostly ignored

  • I am now in my second week of not playing wvw. I am sick of thieves, mesmers and soulbeasts. That simple.

    They are broken, they have been broken since PoF came out, nothing has been done to fix it.

    Thanks anet.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    I am now in my second week of not playing wvw. I am sick of thieves, mesmers and soulbeasts. That simple.

    They are broken, they have been broken since PoF came out, nothing has been done to fix it.

    Thanks anet.

    Only 2 weeks since PoF been out? You're definetely slacking...

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • Too much feedback for that 1 WvW dev to keep up

    Power > Condition

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭

    I think this is just a symptom of the general lack of interest in a 7 year old game. Map queues during last night’s reset were the lowest I’ve seen in the six years since I’ve started playing the game. GW2 is just running its course...

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    Why many stopped giving Feedback? Honestly...Why bother?

    Unless you're a WvW Otaku (still a few here), or you're a White knight (suspected but not confirmed to be a disguised employee) See - Sock-puppet.

    The only type of Feedback I feel that's wholeheartedly allowed & encouraged on this particular forum...is usually cosmetically shallow or selfish in nature...anything else is quietly suppressed or discouraged...imho

    While our WvW community in-game has been & continues to be decimated by the poor decision to implement Server Linking (Forced Team Creation).

    Forum participation is a clear indication of what's happening in-game...the population of WvW is on a very harsh negative declining trend...which has been accurately predicted. See - June 2016.

    Next, this harsh negative declining trend...in my opinion...will only continue to be reinforced by the upcoming Alliance Linking (Forced Team Creation).

    Doing the same thing & expecting a different outcome - (Definition for Insanity) See - Urban Dictionary.

    Forced Team Creation (Auto or Manually done) only destroys the heart of what makes WvW unique & enticing to play.

    We lost the sense of country or nation...something so vital that no single individual, guild, or alliance could ever do in nurturing a greater sense of belonging...that should be insulated from & beyond control of any sort of incendiary player politics, but instead is given directly to players to use as they see fit with Alliance Linking.

    There's a predictable pattern & high possibility for the WvW game mode to foster Toxic player behavior in the Long-Term...IF players are allowed this level of control within the game mode...imho


    There's a better alternative to fixing the server stacking problem. It's to embrace the stacking that naturally occurs.

    The Highest stacked server in both the EU & NA should be made the primary target for ALL Lower Ranked servers to be attacked by in a truly pure King of the Hill match-up model...the in-game mechanics are already in place & available to make it happen. See - Server Guesting.

    We need to Replace the current Fixed 3 way match-ups & at the same time...Get rid of the Fixed League Tiers. See - Gold, Silver, and Bronze Leagues.

    A pure King of the Hill match-up model that uses existing mechanics to channel the natural raw power behind server stacking in a positive way.


    "Highly Stacked Servers...are like cream...Good ones, rise to the top!"

    We need to make the Highest stacked servers to be the primary target for Everybody to attack.

    The Highest Stacked/Ranked servers (EU and NA) needs to be the villain that all Lower Ranked servers should scheme to topple.

    We need to embrace server stacking & use a different match-up model...that encourages healthy competitive match-ups...that's player driven...yet ANet controlled.

    Lower Ranked servers SHOULD BE ALLOWED to attack any Higher Ranked server for Greater Rewards. Attacking any Lower Ranked server should come with Reduced Rewards. All Servers SHOULD BE ALLOWED to choose to Rise or Fall in their WvW Rank (based on their efforts) in finding the right rank niche to call home...

    Servers being pigeon-holed into the same 3 way match-ups that's segregated by "Fixed League Tiers"...in the long-term...will frustratingly & carelessly...waste this game mode's potential to evolve into the next eSport SuperBowl.

    Insightful feedback IS NOT valued here & it will probably just get lost in the shallow & selfish feedback of the day, but every so often...we can all wistfully dream that it can be otherwise...is how I feel.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    "Insights" are Opinions that when given enough time...are later confirmed to be true.


    Before you vote to support anything...even this post...ask yourself...Can the WvW game mode be made better?

    I firmly believe that both ANet & Players here want the WvW game mode to improve.

    We appear to have ANet's ear at the moment & your vote here can let them know that players still want to engage them...if this thread doesn't for some reason or other...get buried & sink into obscurity.

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    Match-up threads probably aren't the answer. The constructive feedback that might appear in those is still perfectly fine to post elsewhere.

    More generally, I've stopped giving feedback because--despite Gail saying that it's read and acted upon--it sure doesn't feel that way. That doesn't mean I don't believe her...just that it's a lot of work to take on when I'm essentially shooting in the dark. I can time all the yaks and determine exact or practical upgrade times and make a nice chart and all...but if Anet doesn't comment on whether they care that northern towers on ABL take massively longer to upgrade than any other structure anywhere, then what's the point? I can calculate how fast small-teams or zergs of various sizes can blitz a side keep but, without comment from Anet, I have no clue whether the numbers show that things are going too slow, too fast, or just right. I can give feedback on their siege changes but I don't know what their goal is for siege...so how can I tailor that feedback?

    To give a few more specific examples, they made a change some years ago that allowed siege to be hit by crits and conditions. To compensate, they doubled siege health. However, they didn't boost siege vs. siege damage to compensate even though siege doesn't deal significant condition damage. Ballistae especially don't deal much condi dmg and their main role is killing other siege. Initially, I wasn't sure if this was intended or just an oopsie-goof, but I talked about it anyway. Anet didn't say a thing. Months later, they buffed the Ballista skill #1 to do double damage to siege which effectively restored anti-siege TTK for that one skill. I don't know if that was related and they didn't give a reason for it that I saw. They also didn't give a reason for keeping the doubling of TTK for all other siege/skills in place. It's possible that I gave feedback, they read it and they acted upon it...but who knows?

    They also changed catapults to deal more damage with more charge, though they didn't say why. In doing so, they boosted the damage of proxy catas and catapult DPS generally. No word on if that was intentional. I said some things about that...no response, no changes. Now, it's fine if they don't comfort me every time I cry...but at some point in this process, I do need to have some clue as to what they're trying to do. If they don't tell me why they made a change, don't clarify the reason after making it and don't respond to feedback about it...why should I bother?

    There are some other times where I've seen people give feedback and something related magically changed down the line, but it's hard to connect all of those dots. Also, since there's precious little communication at every point in the process, I don't think it's all on me if I've missed a few connections.

    Basically, I'd love to give feedback. I have as much fun building spreadsheets and crunching numbers as I do scouting the borderlands. But it feels like I'm just shouting into the wind. I, for some reason, really love WvW. I'm sure that there are some Devs, somewhere, that also love WvW. But without any clue as to why they do what they do and don't do what they don't do, I can't be sure if my feedback is worth the time.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like WvW, I just think this game mode has potential for more.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    Hi Gaile,

    Your response has been nothing but fair & professional...imho

    In response...would it be possible to get a schedule on when to expect WvW Updates based on a consistent time frame that the community can come together over?

    If you've ever sat in a white blank room without a clock...you'll understand the importance of being able to have a time reference in helping to keep your sanity.

    Also, that spinning dial on your computer when you install something, or click on a web link...is there to help keep you from going nuts as you wait for the task to finish.

    Can we at least get a spinning thingie for WvW Updates...that Displays % Complete to show progress?

    No timeline or dates...just a Simple % Complete...that gets updated (monthly, quarterly, etc?)...if no updates are forthcoming...then a simple post saying no change to the % Complete status...but at least a log indicating that it is being watched.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    a dev showed up in wvw subforum? :open_mouth:
    is it my Birthday?

  • Swamurabi.7890Swamurabi.7890 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm sorry Gaile but from my perspective, there is no difference from devs that read the WvW forums and don't post anything and devs that don't read the WvW forums. Especially when I can see evidence of devs in PvP and PvE responding to players.

    I have yet to see someone from the balance team on the WvW forums discussing with the players issues that the players see with builds/skills/traits that are overtuned in WvW and WvW alone.

    From the very earliest threads about WvW it has been clear to the players that population and coverage are the biggest factors in determining the winners in a matchup. I realize that there have been several changes implemented to try to lessen the influence of population and coverage, changes I would call minimal. It's like you didn't want to blow up the system even after you realized that the system was the problem. Alliances will blow up the system, finally.

    I'm sure that not many would agree with me but I would have had more respect for Anet if the devs just came out and threatened and/or forced the players to disperse to achieve a balanced WvW experience. There are many holiday PvP events where players are asked to switch sides to re-balance the match. I would also been happy if the devs, seeing that players took the initiative to start GvG, embraced it and encouraged it. Aren't there examples in GW1 and GW2 of some holiday events that were inspired by player initiatives?

    Even if Alliances is released I probably won't come back because I really hate grinding for armor/weapons/trinkets in PvE in order to catch up with everyone else that has characters with BiS gear.

  • @Israel.7056 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    This thread is so filled with misinformation and conspiracy theories, I doubt I can address them all, but...

    • The WvW Subforum is read.
    • Feedback is noted and, often, acted upon.
    • Negative feedback is perfectly fine as long as it's constructive.
    • The value of feedback is subjective, and what someone may see as "insightful" or "valuable" or "accurate" or "necessary" may, in fact, be a suggestion whose adoption is detrimental to the game as a whole. Since we all own our own opinions, it's really hard for any of us to accurately appraise the value of our comments. The devs do their best to look at things from a whole-game perspective, and that may result in the determination that the suggestion isn't practical at all.
    • Moderation is reasonable and necessary. Posts are not removed because they are "negative." We allow all sorts of negative comments on the forums -- look around you. (Look at this thread!) Comments will be removed when they're unacceptable. Let me put it this way:
      • Making a point is good.
      • Saying you don't like something is fine.
      • Giving constructive suggestions for change is marvelous.
      • Pointless ranting and raving, calling another member a horrible name, or asking for someone to be fired is wrong.
      • All that seems pretty clear to me and I think most are on board with that. If a post of yours is removed, read the mod note and try to look at the removal from an objective perspective. If we make an error, we'll right it. But we'll not go back and review every "I was 'banned' for saying 'pooh'" comment. You know how to appeal -- do it if you feel the need.

    Lastly, NO ArenaNet employee posts on a sock-puppet account. I know this because I know and trust the team. But to increase your comfort level with my emphatic statement, I also know this because I have access to the back-end software, I would spot a sock-puppet account in seconds, and it would be gone. ArenaNet doesn't use fake accounts to post "white knight" comments or for any other reason. There are people who support us, and they're allowed to post. Don't besmirch them, or the devs, by suggesting they are fakers.

    Do you really not see the contradictory logic of this post?

    On the one hand you postulate that the value of any opinion is fundamentally subjective. At some level this casts doubt on the use of debate but that's another issue.

    On the other hand you ask us all to look at post deletions objectively. But you already stipulated that value of any feedback is subjective. Whose perspective can be considered objective then?

    Sounds to me like ANet is listening to the ones that cry the loudest, as many of us have always thought. These forums are a terrible place for constructive criticism because 99.9% of the time, there is none. It's just X killed me please nerf X and buff Y or ANet never listens to us, this game mode is dying long winded rant with no attempt to offer solutions to the problems followed by further pointing fingers at ANet.

    If anything, I think ANet is listening too much. People rant and complain regardless of whether there are or aren't any updates. They're never happy and apparently ANet is trying to please everyone. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it but, if it's those that are making the most noise that are calling the shots, I'd much rather ANet ignore us almost completely and pay more attention to the statistics.

    I apologize for all the whining and difficulty you guys must have trying to figure out what to do with WvW, Gaile. I can't say that I'm 100% satisfied with it's current state but I assure you not everyone is as negative and hostile as many of those you see here. And I don't believe "passionate" is a valid excuse for people only ever posting when they're angry and not when they're happy.

    💀 Necromancer | Diamond Legend 💎

  • I don't care how hard you claim to be "listening." It's all cheap, meaningless words we've heard 1,000 times before. I, and I suspect many others, want concrete action. We want to see change. Things that have been heard, discussed and turned into something tangible that actually affects the game and has an impact on players actually playing the game mode. You've had 7 years to listen. It's time for action: action that breaks the stagnation that this game mode has been in for quite some time which many people have lost hope in ever changing due to the lack of any concrete changes occurring.

    [TW] Tempest Wolves

  • edited February 5, 2019

    @Israel.7056 said:

    On the one hand you postulate that the value of any opinion is fundamentally subjective. At some level this casts doubt on the use of debate but that's another issue.

    On the other hand you ask us all to look at post deletions objectively. But you already stipulated that value of any feedback is subjective. Whose perspective can be considered objective then?

    I think I can answer this, if I understand the question. Objectivity is best achieved by those who don't have a pony in the race. Post deletions are not personal, are not targeted, are not determined by where you post, how much you play, what profession you choose, your spendings in the Gem Store, nor your astrological sign or shoe size. :) Post deletions are handled by team members who have professional training and experience in viewing each post with as much clarity and as little bias as humanly possible.

    Post deletions happen when people go OTT in what is supposed to be a reasonable place for conversation. Name calling, rampant insults, attacks on another member, conspiracy theories, threats of legal action -- anything listed in the Forums Code of Conduct as a potential violation just shouldn't be posted. There's a reason we ask for people to be reasonable -- to support our community and their ability to have meaningful conversations.

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    I apologize for all the whining and difficulty you guys must have trying to figure out what to do with WvW, Gaile. I can't say that I'm 100% satisfied with it's current state but I assure you not everyone is as negative and hostile as many of those you see here. And I don't believe "passionate" is a valid excuse for people only ever posting when they're angry and not when they're happy.

    I appreciate that! And I agree that "passionate" is misused when it's an excuse. "I verbally abused someone because I am 'passionate'" has very little -- probably zero -- validity. We forgive a lot of borderline comments because we do appreciate that people can get a little carried away with expressing themselves, but there is a limit, and that's why moderation happens.

    Gaile Gray
    Communications Manager: ArenaNet
    Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

  • I haven't read alot of this thread, and I don't post very often in the forums - but: not very long ago I remember making an off-hand comment about WvW to my boyfriend while we were talking about various legendary weapons and armor. I was looking through the server pops and, maybe dumbly, recognized for the first time that WvW success seems to have to do with the server population based on my own maybe flawed and probably limited perception.

    This is for the devs I guess (specifically because I've heard on good authority that they read this) and that's because I'm sure there are more than a few WvW enthusiasts who will take what I've said already and what I'm about to say and cut it into bite sized pieces, or more likely ignore it. Oh well, I like WvW, I'm terrible at it but it's really fun for me, so my thoughts continue:

    At first, I remember saying something about how low pop servers should be matched with the same. No, too simple and instantly broken probably somehow. Then I thought just a moment ago, how about linking low pop servers with a stable per cent participation in WvW together, to match better with higher pop? Well, maybe but something about that idea seems too volatile to me, too chaotic. Now, minutes into my intense thought process, I wonder if it would be worth anything to "simplify" critical modifiers like tactivation and reinforcement tiers and break large pre-made combat units from being permanently associated with any given world into more of a freelance "work of the day" type arrangement. If it's easy it's not fun; if it's fun it's not easy BUT... those two statements are only true along a progression that starts out as an empty pot and winds up with a lovely stone soup. I'm being vague because I don't really know what I'm talking about; I'm hoping you do though somehow :) ...to each his own.

    I have gear I like, I tinker with my build endlessly and sometimes get a winner - just lately someone in pretty neat pvp gear whispered me about my build due to a savage wrecking I delivered, twice, despite being nearly completely clueless in pvp - and I have a lot of fun in WvW. I have fun because it's fun to be part of a zerg, to chase across the map to points that seem important to attack, hold or harass and to meet in epic running engagements with other zergs upon the open plains. What's not fun is being vaguely impressed with the feeling that my server is terrible in WvW, that other servers are the best and might as well hang up their belts or capes or whatever or that somehow, even though I like to try my best and fight as hard as I can and be a good little soldier, all my contribution is in the end for nothing or is doomed to be shamed by some Great Armament appearing on the horizon from seemingly another time or world. Anyway, I like WvW, I like this game and so here I am in the forum voicing my thoughts, as is the right of all in this day and age. Also happy new year to anyone I haven't told that to yet. Cheers!

    P.S. Ar Pharazon was the king who sent the Great Armament to assail the uttermost West, should you be trying to remember the name.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    @kins.3294 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:
    a dev showed up in wvw subforum? :open_mouth:
    is it my Birthday?

    Uhhh, no. They just came in to tell us to stop crying and went back to ignoring the game mode.

    No, no, that truly is not what I wanted to say. I didn't even want to hint that!

    I have some insight into the studio and the team. That's why I feel I should tell you that WvW is not being abandoned, WvW players are not being ignored -- that's my honest assessment of the situation. I know it's sometimes hard to be patient, and @Diku.2546 I totally understand the request, even like the idea of giving timeframes, but the company believes that doing that causes more problems than it helps. In an ideal world, we could say "We'll probably do this Q1 2019" and people would know that it's likely but not promised. But a certain number of people believe any form of a "about" or "probably" or "we're hoping" timeframe is an absolute, rock-solid immutable commitment or promise.

    Think back, and I bet you can remember threads -- and believe me, I do ;) -- where a team member tried to provide a probable, anticipated, or hoped-for timeframe and, when for one of a dozen very good reasons -- from technical issues to the decision to do something even better than initially planned -- that timeframe slipped. Most people are understanding, but there are some who meet that sort of change in plans with comments like, "You promised this thing and it's not here" and even "You lied to us!"

    We like to under-promise and over-deliver. I hope that things we do in the future help convince you of that.

    You cant stop people finding an excuse to moan, whinge and whine though. Id rather hear all about what is going on and potentially might be released, even if delayed or cancelled than hear nothing and thus expect nothing. I remember those threads and those people were a loud minority versus those of us who appreciated the communications. Those crying “liar” should not dictate to you or spoil it for us. They should never have been allowed to win out because they were often just looking for any excuse to attack regardless to what it was.

    I know people will cry “liars”, but equally more ppl will prob cry “neglect”. Id rather rather Anet took a more positive and proactive approach and celebrated what they are working on (not story stuff obviously) and just ignore those who cry “liar”.

    I like GW2 and I like Anet, but this is the one game and studio i can never get excited about the future for because we arent given reasons to look forward to much because the studio doesnt talk until after the ship (which you generally are at least very good at doing)and that feels unhealthy to me. Surprises are always great, but not when everything is one.

    I cant make you change your mind, i just hope Anet will become a little less secretive one day.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dynomite.5834 said:
    Gaile,

    I remember well when the Devs used to give estimates, miss it by a week and the forum posters would crucify them. I like what one of the other posters here mentioned - just give some updates; no delivery dates, just updates

    Or even simple acknowledgement of the many long discussed points being recognized by the development team.

    "Hey, that's a good idea, we'll consider looking into it."
    "Unfortunately due to ________ its unlikely we could implement such a change/mechanic."

    People post some really good ideas here, and most of it is discussed by the populace, then forgotten about.

    One pinned post by the development brass per calendar season saying "hey we're still working on the thing, here are a few new things you can expect, you know, when its ready" (often with no follow-ups) with few actual substantial updates has left a lot of people rocking back and fourth in their chairs in anticipation for a very, very long time. Anticipation that often turns to angst and impatience compounded by those long months of radio silence. (That's NOT to say things should be rushed, just that a bit of chatter on the forum would help.)

    It may all be in our heads, but I can't really blame the people who feel like this gamemode is the black sheep of GW2.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There a real lack of back and forward devs may read these things but reading is only part of getting feed back it needs to be a full convention or its a lot of ppl throwing ideals into the ideal bin (often jokely means of heating) not knowing what to make of "we are reading it" talk.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • In my opinion, as a seasoned customer service specialist, that "Under promising and over delivering" is a absolutely detrimental to a workplace's core values. It invites a slew of unproductive habits and doesn't garner rapport when stated in front of customers. Would it not be wiser to adopt "Meet expectations and then exceed them" as a company value? The last episode is an example of this. You (the company) saw a plea for Diviners to come to pve. You met those expectations (wishes do come true!), and then exceed them by providing an engaging way to obtain them.

    I don't think you (the company) under promises at all. Your fans have seen the great uniqueness of the game and can only stand to be impressed further. I think that this is a double edged sword, because raving fans have high expectations, but, if you meet them, and then exceed them, you're gaining loyalty points in a niche crowd, filling voids in their dark, discontented hearts. /s

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swamurabi.7890 said:
    I'm sorry Gaile but from my perspective, there is no difference from devs that read the WvW forums and don't post anything and devs that don't read the WvW forums. Especially when I can see evidence of devs in PvP and PvE responding to players.

    I have yet to see someone from the balance team on the WvW forums discussing with the players issues that the players see with builds/skills/traits that are overtuned in WvW and WvW alone.

    From the very earliest threads about WvW it has been clear to the players that population and coverage are the biggest factors in determining the winners in a matchup. I realize that there have been several changes implemented to try to lessen the influence of population and coverage, changes I would call minimal. It's like you didn't want to blow up the system even after you realized that the system was the problem. Alliances will blow up the system, finally.

    I'm sure that not many would agree with me but I would have had more respect for Anet if the devs just came out and threatened and/or forced the players to disperse to achieve a balanced WvW experience. There are many holiday PvP events where players are asked to switch sides to re-balance the match. I would also been happy if the devs, seeing that players took the initiative to start GvG, embraced it and encouraged it. Aren't there examples in GW1 and GW2 of some holiday events that were inspired by player initiatives?

    Even if Alliances is released I probably won't come back because I really hate grinding for armor/weapons/trinkets in PvE in order to catch up with everyone else that has characters with BiS gear.

    You can make wvw legendary armor without stepping foot in pve. Same applies for trinkets, through the various reward tracks. Plus dungeon runes, all from reward tracks too. You dont have to grind pve at all.

  • Feedback implies input into some dynamic process. Beyond these vague pleasantries Gaile provides and a post highlighting the skeleton crew that is working on WvW, what process can anyone here note that is ongoing with WvW? Not shots, but truly, beyond 'Soon' from that other dude, what process is any of this feedback going towards?

    Why bother.

    Alliances were announced on the 2nd of February 2018

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    Reminder for those that may need it to keep this thread from being closed:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/the-forums-code-of-conduct

    Keep it clean
    Keep it civil
    Stay on topic
    State your thoughts in a constructive manner
    Be responsible
    Report posts for moderator review if they violate these guidelines


    Thread Time Stamp when Logged in & Not Logged in Do Not Match?

    Hmm...can anybody else confirm this phenomenon?

    Not Logged into forum - Thread Time Stamp displays - Name of Last Player to Post with the Time @1236 am
    OR
    Not Logged into forum - Thread Time Stamp displays - February 5, 2019 @ 635 am HST

    Previous Last player to post displays - February 5, 2019 @ 635 am HST
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/820071/#Comment_820071


    Logged into forum - Thread Time Stamp seems to Display yesterday's date - February 4, 2019 - No Time Listed

    Is it my imagination...or...does anybody else notice that this thread continues to sink even when players are still trying to give feedback?

    In any case...I'm hoping that anyone (ANet or Player) might be able to shed some light on this observed phenomenon.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2019

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:

    On the one hand you postulate that the value of any opinion is fundamentally subjective. At some level this casts doubt on the use of debate but that's another issue.

    On the other hand you ask us all to look at post deletions objectively. But you already stipulated that value of any feedback is subjective. Whose perspective can be considered objective then?

    I think I can answer this, if I understand the question. Objectivity is best achieved by those who don't have a pony in the race. Post deletions are not personal, are not targeted, are not determined by where you post, how much you play, what profession you choose, your spendings in the Gem Store, nor your astrological sign or shoe size. :) Post deletions are handled by team members who have professional training and experience in viewing each post with as much clarity and as little bias as humanly possible.

    Post deletions happen when people go OTT in what is supposed to be a reasonable place for conversation. Name calling, rampant insults, attacks on another member, conspiracy theories, threats of legal action -- anything listed in the Forums Code of Conduct as a potential violation just shouldn't be posted. There's a reason we ask for people to be reasonable -- to support our community and their ability to have meaningful conversations.

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    I apologize for all the whining and difficulty you guys must have trying to figure out what to do with WvW, Gaile. I can't say that I'm 100% satisfied with it's current state but I assure you not everyone is as negative and hostile as many of those you see here. And I don't believe "passionate" is a valid excuse for people only ever posting when they're angry and not when they're happy.

    I appreciate that! And I agree that "passionate" is misused when it's an excuse. "I verbally abused someone because I am 'passionate'" has very little -- probably zero -- validity. We forgive a lot of borderline comments because we do appreciate that people can get a little carried away with expressing themselves, but there is a limit, and that's why moderation happens.

    Interesting defence Gaile... more interestingly though, it seems that if such posts that insult, flame or troll other posters who are engaged in trying to converse their opinion on how they feel let down by ANET in regards to WvW.. .. well such posts, like the one not too far up above in this thread, don't get removed or certainly anywhere as fast as those that would be directing the same insults at ANET or others I general.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @duillyn.2697 said:
    Feedback implies input into some dynamic process. Beyond these vague pleasantries Gaile provides and a post highlighting the skeleton crew that is working on WvW, what process can anyone here note that is ongoing with WvW? Not shots, but truly, beyond 'Soon' from that other dude, what process is any of this feedback going towards?

    Why bother.

    Each player has to weigh and measure for themselves if any time they may put into providing feedback is worth their time. That said I have seen quite a lot of suggestions that have appeared on the forums appear in the game in their original design or as an slightly altered idea. Now whether or not that application concept was triggered from the forum thread or if it was a similar concept that the Dev Team was already working towards can't tell from this side. But have seen it enough times over the years that yes I believe that feedback here does have value. So IMO it does have merits for players to suggest concepts and provide feedback. Now being a programmer and effectively all of us players are the users, users tend to think it should take a 10th of the time that things actually require. Now take a new concept that's posted today, that may take months to a year depending on the complexity of the issue. before it might make it in game as a feature. But to players the day after people will post something they will start to wonder, when will that be there, especially if Anet posts anything on it. 2 cents.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
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  • I think the biggest positive change wvw can experience is for smaller teams to have a good chance of taking down bigger groups if they are more organized. im not sure what would have to change for this to happen (some impossibilities probably lol) but im pretty sure a lot of people that left would come back and definitely some new people would get interested right quick.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    @Diku.2546 said:

    In any case...I'm hoping that anyone (ANet or Player) might be able to shed some light on this observed phenomenon.

    I banged my shoe against the back-end and sacrificed a skritt to the forum gods. We'll see if that corrected the issue.

    Wut did you do to a skritt? :D

    Hahahahhahaha that's the funniest Dev post ever! :D

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    @Diku.2546 said:

    In any case...I'm hoping that anyone (ANet or Player) might be able to shed some light on this observed phenomenon.

    I banged my shoe against the back-end and sacrificed a skritt to the forum gods. We'll see if that corrected the issue.

    Wut did you do to a skritt? :D

    Hahahahhahaha that's the funniest Dev post ever! :D

    Well what else was she supposed to sacrifice? All the Quaggan are earmarked as trebuchet ammunition and the dedge are all hiding underground.

  • edited February 5, 2019

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:

    On the one hand you postulate that the value of any opinion is fundamentally subjective. At some level this casts doubt on the use of debate but that's another issue.

    On the other hand you ask us all to look at post deletions objectively. But you already stipulated that value of any feedback is subjective. Whose perspective can be considered objective then?

    I think I can answer this, if I understand the question. Objectivity is best achieved by those who don't have a pony in the race. Post deletions are not personal, are not targeted, are not determined by where you post, how much you play, what profession you choose, your spendings in the Gem Store, nor your astrological sign or shoe size. :) Post deletions are handled by team members who have professional training and experience in viewing each post with as much clarity and as little bias as humanly possible.

    Post deletions happen when people go OTT in what is supposed to be a reasonable place for conversation. Name calling, rampant insults, attacks on another member, conspiracy theories, threats of legal action -- anything listed in the Forums Code of Conduct as a potential violation just shouldn't be posted. There's a reason we ask for people to be reasonable -- to support our community and their ability to have meaningful conversations.

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    I apologize for all the whining and difficulty you guys must have trying to figure out what to do with WvW, Gaile. I can't say that I'm 100% satisfied with it's current state but I assure you not everyone is as negative and hostile as many of those you see here. And I don't believe "passionate" is a valid excuse for people only ever posting when they're angry and not when they're happy.

    I appreciate that! And I agree that "passionate" is misused when it's an excuse. "I verbally abused someone because I am 'passionate'" has very little -- probably zero -- validity. We forgive a lot of borderline comments because we do appreciate that people can get a little carried away with expressing themselves, but there is a limit, and that's why moderation happens.

    Interesting defence Gaile... more interestingly though, it seems that if such posts that insult, flame or troll other posters who are engaged in trying to converse their opinion on how they feel let down by ANET in regards to WvW.. .. well such posts, like the one not too far up above in this thread, don't get removed or certainly anywhere as fast as those that would be directing the same insults at ANET or others I general.

    I'm no defending anything. And your comments make no sense at all. Threads and posts are moderated in the order the reports are received or the observation of an issue is made by the moderators. Nothing is predicated by the recipient or target of the insult or trolling. Please do feel free to report posts that you believe need to be reviewed and they will be reviewed and the appropriate decision made/action taken as soon as possible.

    Gaile Gray
    Communications Manager: ArenaNet
    Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

  • hi, I'm some guy,

    and what if breaking the general trend of the gaming industry since 2013, and actually showing your playerbase that you care, made you more money than pumping out as many gem store creations as possible? What if revitalizing the best part of your game ended up making more money by giving people a reason to say "hey, have you heard of Gw2? It has an amazing WvW component and the devs actually give a kitten"

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    | YouTube Wrath of God Staff Weaver |
    | Anvil Rock (main) | Crystal Desert (alt)

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    I think the biggest positive change wvw can experience is for smaller teams to have a good chance of taking down bigger groups if they are more organized. im not sure what would have to change for this to happen (some impossibilities probably lol) but im pretty sure a lot of people that left would come back and definitely some new people would get interested right quick.

    In fact we had that at the begining. But Anet decided that it was bad and changed it. In so called 'golden age of wvw' our characters were limited if we consied pros and cons. When i was playing a backline staff necro with wells all I had was one of the biggest dmg potential. But it came with the price - we were slow, we didnt have stability, we didnt have healing, we didnt have to many boons. That's why we needed to group up. Healing was a luxury, boons were luxury etc. Right now all you need is rev next to you and u get boosted all the time, while he's doing tons of dmg from the distance. There are builds fully oriented on healing - so all that 'water-blast' is gone. Therefore the advantage we get for being organised is significantly smaller than it used to. In most cases you win when your blob is bigger. What is more - apparently that's good - i mean people are leaving, we have less and less queues even though servers were merged etc, but hey - they 'working on it'. And the sad fact is this : if Anet cant' provide decent balance right now, what will happen in the future, when they introduce more specialization, so there will be even more potential variants to balance?

  • @ShinigamiPL.4086 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    I think the biggest positive change wvw can experience is for smaller teams to have a good chance of taking down bigger groups if they are more organized. im not sure what would have to change for this to happen (some impossibilities probably lol) but im pretty sure a lot of people that left would come back and definitely some new people would get interested right quick.

    In fact we had that at the begining. But Anet decided that it was bad and changed it. In so called 'golden age of wvw' our characters were limited if we consied pros and cons. When i was playing a backline staff necro with wells all I had was one of the biggest dmg potential. But it came with the price - we were slow, we didnt have stability, we didnt have healing, we didnt have to many boons. That's why we needed to group up. Healing was a luxury, boons were luxury etc. Right now all you need is rev next to you and u get boosted all the time, while he's doing tons of dmg from the distance. There are builds fully oriented on healing - so all that 'water-blast' is gone. Therefore the advantage we get for being organised is significantly smaller than it used to. In most cases you win when your blob is bigger. What is more - apparently that's good - i mean people are leaving, we have less and less queues even though servers were merged etc, but hey - they 'working on it'. And the sad fact is this : if Anet cant' provide decent balance right now, what will happen in the future, when they introduce more specialization, so there will be even more potential variants to balance?

    well said sir.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • The fact is simple but no one will say it. Having one server COMPLETELY dominate and dictate the rankings of all the rest in WvW is not a game. It is a dictatorship of one group of people supported by a single, all-powerful corporation. In the real world such a situation would be dealt with by dismantling the ENTIRE group piece by piece and banning future iterations thereof.

  • alcopaul.2156alcopaul.2156 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    maybe WvW perfected itself over time?

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  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Reasons for people leaving are player created problems and problems anet cannot fix. You bandwagon together to farm players those players being farmed will not enjoy it as much as you think they will. So they leave for other games and then you go to forums asking why they leave for?

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    How about an honest answer to these questions:

    How many full time developers work exclusively on wvw? (I can answer that, none, or at least no evidence of any). or how many man hours spent on wvw since the beginning of the year?
    What is the current best guess first beta test phase of alliances?

    two simple questions that answering of would at least make the wvw playerbase (those that haven't already given up and quit) feel like someone cares or that their game mode isn't actually completely down the bottom of the list.

  • Reverence.6915Reverence.6915 Member ✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    I think the biggest positive change wvw can experience is for smaller teams to have a good chance of taking down bigger groups if they are more organized. im not sure what would have to change for this to happen (some impossibilities probably lol) but im pretty sure a lot of people that left would come back and definitely some new people would get interested right quick.

    Wouldn't be too difficult for the balance team to do, but unless they split balance with PvE, it would also make a lot of their precious PvE players mad, since all you really have to do is revert condi to how it was like back before the condi buffs, just before HoT was released, as well as buff melee damage while nerfing ranged damage

    That's how it looked like before all the HoT buffs (well, the balance patch before HoT hit). Melee trains might be boring to some, but it did take a coordination that allowed a smaller group to defeat a bigger group

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't forget anet killed roaming with the very very bad decision to give everyone auto scouting anti stealth consumables and making npcs a counter to entire classes of roamers in wvw and these roamers also made up fight groups too with their other characters. So many bad decisions and now paying for it and the talk of alliances or any kind of future of wvw fading away and not worth two cents unless there is something coming besides crappy circus weapons.

This discussion has been closed.
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