Will Dragonhunter Longbow Ever Receive More For PvE?

[Skotlex.7580]

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:Of course this goes hand in hand with the damage nerf to skill 2 True Shot but still forcing a stop in movement which makes no sense if they wanted to keep more interesting all had to do was lower the damage the less time you charge it so a quick shot with movement does little damage but a long charge does more damage but leaves you more at risk. They already have skills in the game that function this way I never understood why they didn't use this option.

I would totally love if true shot worked like siege skills, where you can hold the button to charge it up (though here you'd get increased damage rather than range). It would make total sense given the theme of the skill and how it roots you.

[Nifl.9613]

@Wukie.1794 said:The other professions I had originally leveled that mainly used GS were mesmer, soulbeast, and reaper. This game has a serious bias towards greatsword. I mean they made the thing a ranged weapon for mesmers. That's ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous as ranged hammer on Revenant.

[kasoki.5180]

@Dace.8173 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Skotlex.7580 said:Uhm, ranged isn't supposed to deal more DPS than melee. Complains about dragonhunter longbow damage should probably be in comparing it to another power ranged set, sceptre + focus.

I dont understand this dogma that ranged weapons cannot be stronger than melee weapons. Especially in a game that has skill splitting for different game modes and on top of that is very oriented towards forcing people into short range stacking due to boon sharing and aoe nature of heals

What would be the downside if Longbow had same dps output as greatsword in PvE only? It would actually give us some much needed refreshment in my opinion

Higher melee damage is the reward for putting yourself in more direct danger than you would be at range. The underlying logic here applies even in PvE as melee combat is still putting you in more direct harm's way.

Yes, I understand why in standard combat design melee is designed to be stronger. My point was that this does not apply in the game like GW2 because of the way boss encounters and class roles are designed.In this games PvE you are in the short range of the boss, no matter what weapon you play. Thats because the nature of boonsharing and healing. Also, I'm not sure that melee range in this game PvE is more punishing considering AoE and range of Boss mechanics and skills. Bosses are based on periodic strong attacks or AoE spamms, not on constant attacks in the melee. Not to mention how melee range actually guarantees you more defensive boons from other players unlike if you would, lets say, stand in the back of the boss fight.

Also, this idea that melee is more dangerous applies in the game where bosses and encounters are mostly based on melee type enemies. But in this game, there are countless ranged enemies.Safety of ranged weapons simply doesn't apply in this games PvE the way it does in others.

On top of that, some guardians melee weapons are actually melee/ranged hybrids. For example, Sword #3 and GS#5 are ranged dps skills.

[ParaNoidAndroid.1406]

The one reason I hate Scepter is the obnoxious sound it makes, so I play LB even though I can sort of see how it sucks in long encounters. All I want is a range increase and make a permanent 5% increase in Damage output.

Also, it's fun to play! Lowering cooldowns would totally be interesting as well.

[crazyhusky.2985]

@Assic.2746 said:Stability we get from Heavy Light is kinda useless. I would rather get a few stacks of Might or Vigor or even Swiftness.

Dulled Senses is even worse than that since it only works on KNOCK BACK. And the effect is weak.

Heavy light triat NEEDs Quickness and retaliation on hit. Allowing Dragonhunter to a lot more damage. Dragonhunter feels slow so giving it quickness would help.Dragonhunter has no retaliation on it's traits or skills, despite it being a raid meta requirement for dragonhunter up keep it's retaliation to do DPS for the last 2 years.They've not changed Dragonhunter for this, but they've done stuff to other classes and specs to make them easier and more viable for raids.If they gave Heavy light retaliation with Quickness and switched out Longbow 4's vigor for retaliation. It could help Dragonhunter a bit with damage.Since Greatsword could be use for main DPS, then Longbow be used to gain a bunch of retaliation for the party and the DH. Which would make it easier for the DH to upkeep it's retaliation.

Dulled Senses is rubbish in general, It doesn't do anything. we get cripple from it... wow, give it stun instead. Which will make LB3 Stun if they get knocked back.How about putting Stuns and Dazes back to Dragonhunter. the dragonhunter traps use to daze foes instead of causing slow.The only 2 ways to do knockback with DragonHunter is with longbow BUT you NEED Heavy light and the Shield 5 skill (but it's a protectile blocker you aren't going to be using for knockback) literally thats it. Most of the time Dragonhunter doesn't use shield.So Dulled Senses is never used because it's bad and does so little.

Both Dulled Senses and Heavy light need reworking HEAVILY!!Or they could replace them with better skills.Maybe replace the Heavy light trait with one that increases the longbow's range (from1200 to1500) and make firing speed faster.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Skotlex.7580 said:Uhm, ranged isn't supposed to deal more DPS than melee. Complains about dragonhunter longbow damage should probably be in comparing it to another power ranged set, sceptre + focus.

I dont understand this dogma that ranged weapons cannot be stronger than melee weapons. Especially in a game that has skill splitting for different game modes and on top of that is very oriented towards forcing people into short range stacking due to boon sharing and aoe nature of heals

i think anet wants to force players into the zerg where they cant see anything and get onshooted by unavoidable attacks.i like my DH and it would be nice to use LB again instead autoattack with Zepter on range.srsly i dont like zepter. (and focus or torch ) IMO this weapon(s) does not fit to a heavy armour class.

[Dahkeus.8243]

Would love to see this happen. I get that every patch can’t address every issue, but I think this one is overdue. Considering all the other changes in this balance patch, I can understand longbow getting missed, but I really hope to see it getting love next patch.

[Sevetar.6035]

@Dace.8173 said:

@Roam.5208 said:I unwisely wasted one of my Luminous skins on the longbow, hoping it would be semi decent in PvE. Now I have to wait several more months to get a greatsword skin, because it's pretty much the only good weapon for Guardian :'(

You should be doing fine with it in PvE.

@Susy.7529 said:

@Wukie.1794 said:Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like the weapon that an elite specialization unlocks shouldn't be garbage to use. I was so excited to finish unlocking Dragon Hunter, turns out I am yet ANOTHER profession using a greatsword. Starting to feel like no matter what I choose I end up with a kitten greatsword.

Renegade's shortbow says HI.

Indeed.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Well... 99% of the DH longbow's issues come from the cast time, like most of the issues you find on weapon kits. Reducing

puncture shot

cast time to 1/2 would make the AA a lot more pleasant to use.

Symbole of energy

already need to be targeted, reducing the cast time shouldn't be an issue.

Hunter ward

is a copy of the ranger's LB 5th skill but somehow end up being worst, there is a need for improvement here.

Yeah, I think a handful of QoL improvements would make the weapon great. I love using it, much like I love using Renegade shortbow, it is just so sad that you take a hit to your overall efficiency to use something so fun.

@Tormod.5018 said:You guys realize that most HoT specs were made for PvP right? I mean League Season 1-3 was when they were pushing for esports...

The only other reason LB sucks on DH is that it's burst damage vs constant damage, and the fact of AoE vs single target.

This is completely just balancing issues though, so gl with that.

Really?

@Dace.8173 said:

@Roam.5208 said:I unwisely wasted one of my Luminous skins on the longbow, hoping it would be semi decent in PvE. Now I have to wait several more months to get a greatsword skin, because it's pretty much the only good weapon for Guardian :'(

You should be doing fine with it in PvE.

@Susy.7529 said:

@Wukie.1794 said:Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like the weapon that an elite specialization unlocks shouldn't be garbage to use. I was so excited to finish unlocking Dragon Hunter, turns out I am yet ANOTHER profession using a greatsword. Starting to feel like no matter what I choose I end up with a kitten greatsword.

Renegade's shortbow says HI.

Indeed.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Well... 99% of the DH longbow's issues come from the cast time, like most of the issues you find on weapon kits. Reducing

puncture shot

cast time to 1/2 would make the AA a lot more pleasant to use.

Symbole of energy

already need to be targeted, reducing the cast time shouldn't be an issue.

Hunter ward

is a copy of the ranger's LB 5th skill but somehow end up being worst, there is a need for improvement here.

Yeah, I think a handful of QoL improvements would make the weapon great. I love using it, much like I love using Renegade shortbow, it is just so sad that you take a hit to your overall efficiency to use something so fun.

@Tormod.5018 said:You guys realize that most HoT specs were made for PvP right? I mean League Season 1-3 was when they were pushing for esports...

The only other reason LB sucks on DH is that it's burst damage vs constant damage, and the fact of AoE vs single target.

This is completely just balancing issues though, so gl with that.

Really?

@Dace.8173 said:

@Roam.5208 said:I unwisely wasted one of my Luminous skins on the longbow, hoping it would be semi decent in PvE. Now I have to wait several more months to get a greatsword skin, because it's pretty much the only good weapon for Guardian :'(

You should be doing fine with it in PvE.

@Susy.7529 said:

@Wukie.1794 said:Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like the weapon that an elite specialization unlocks shouldn't be garbage to use. I was so excited to finish unlocking Dragon Hunter, turns out I am yet ANOTHER profession using a greatsword. Starting to feel like no matter what I choose I end up with a kitten greatsword.

Renegade's shortbow says HI.

Indeed.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Well... 99% of the DH longbow's issues come from the cast time, like most of the issues you find on weapon kits. Reducing

puncture shot

cast time to 1/2 would make the AA a lot more pleasant to use.

Symbole of energy

already need to be targeted, reducing the cast time shouldn't be an issue.

Hunter ward

is a copy of the ranger's LB 5th skill but somehow end up being worst, there is a need for improvement here.

Yeah, I think a handful of QoL improvements would make the weapon great. I love using it, much like I love using Renegade shortbow, it is just so sad that you take a hit to your overall efficiency to use something so fun.

@Tormod.5018 said:You guys realize that most HoT specs were made for PvP right? I mean League Season 1-3 was when they were pushing for esports...

The only other reason LB sucks on DH is that it's burst damage vs constant damage, and the fact of AoE vs single target.

This is completely just balancing issues though, so gl with that.

Really?

So....you say that they should be doing fine with LB in PVE? Could you please share the LB build that pulls a decent amount of DPS in PVE and what the benchmark for said build comes out to? I would love to be able to play LB DH in PVE.

[Sevetar.6035]

.../sigh and I wanted it to be true so badly

[Shiyo.3578]

@Wukie.1794 said:Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like the weapon that an elite specialization unlocks shouldn't be garbage to use. I was so excited to finish unlocking Dragon Hunter, turns out I am yet ANOTHER profession using a greatsword. Starting to feel like no matter what I choose I end up with a kitten greatsword.

Yeah it really does seem like gsword is the best weapon for every class that can use it, and if it's not, sword is. Seems like sword/gsword are just the best the majority of the time, it's very strange.

[melandru.3876]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Wukie.1794 said:Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like the weapon that an elite specialization unlocks shouldn't be garbage to use. I was so excited to finish unlocking Dragon Hunter, turns out I am yet ANOTHER profession using a greatsword. Starting to feel like no matter what I choose I end up with a kitten greatsword.

Yeah it really does seem like gsword is the best weapon for every class that can use it, and if it's not, sword is. Seems like sword/gsword are just the best the majority of the time, it's very strange.

axe wants to have a word with you

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Wukie.1794 said:Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like the weapon that an elite specialization unlocks shouldn't be garbage to use. I was so excited to finish unlocking Dragon Hunter, turns out I am yet ANOTHER profession using a greatsword. Starting to feel like no matter what I choose I end up with a kitten greatsword.

Yeah it really does seem like gsword is the best weapon for every class that can use it, and if it's not, sword is. Seems like sword/gsword are just the best the majority of the time, it's very strange.

axe wants to have a word with you

axe is often not the goto primary weapon and more a nice to have secondary weapon.i would love to use more Longbow and not Zepter. Zepter looks silly on a heavy armour class. like swining a tiny stick like Harry Potter but in heavy armour from Dark Souls.

[melandru.3876]

@Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Wukie.1794 said:Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like the weapon that an elite specialization unlocks shouldn't be garbage to use. I was so excited to finish unlocking Dragon Hunter, turns out I am yet ANOTHER profession using a greatsword. Starting to feel like no matter what I choose I end up with a kitten greatsword.

Yeah it really does seem like gsword is the best weapon for every class that can use it, and if it's not, sword is. Seems like sword/gsword are just the best the majority of the time, it's very strange.

axe wants to have a word with you

axe is often not the goto primary weapon and more a nice to have secondary weapon.i would love to use more Longbow and not Zepter. Zepter looks silly on a heavy armour class. like swining a tiny stick like Harry Potter but in heavy armour from Dark Souls.

ok then

meta on:

druid (axe main hand)soulbeast (axe offhand, aswell as axe main-hand as dps is pretty much on par with main hand dagger/sword)mirage (axe main hand)warrior bannerslave (axe main hand + axe off hand)firebrand both heal variant and condi quickbrand (axe main hand)

there are 2 builds that use axe offhand as meta

soulbeastwarrior bannerslave

i think we have a clear winner

meanwhile greatsword

dragonhuntersoulbeastpower chrono (only domination variant though)

and that's it

again, i think we have a clear winner, no?

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

i play Firebrand heal/Quickbrand and i dont use a Axe. Zepter, Mace, Staff, GS much better. Axe only when might is missing.GS for ReaperReaper also use Axe, but not as main DPS weapon

[Shiyo.3578]

@Unknown.3976 said:We have been requesting this for the past 2 years, and all we got was a 10% buff to trueshot. The guardian PvE meta is getting stale; power builds are forever married to GS and scepter.

Anet, skill split exist for a reason.

I think sword should be the highest ST dps weapon we have, or at least higher than scepter.

[Obtena.7952]

@Stalkingwolf.6035 said:i play Firebrand heal/Quickbrand and i dont use a Axe. Zepter, Mace, Staff, GS much better. Axe only when might is missing.GS for ReaperReaper also use Axe, but not as main DPS weapon

That doesn't mean axe isn't a good MH weapon on FB ... if you DON'T play a heal/quickbrand, you ARE using an Axe as a primary weapon. It simply a function of what you want to do. GS is popular as a weapon generally, but other weapons are most certainly with significant use and value.

As for the actual topic ... it's not clear what 'more for PVE' means, but I doubt LB will ever be meta for it for a few of reasons off the top of my head

1. The theme of DH isn't inline with PVE and LB is restricted to DH
2. It's not really needed for PVE ... Scepter is by far a more capable ranged weapon in PVE
3. As we can see from the last upteenth patches ... Guardian isn't really 'moving' around on the big changes; Anet has indicated many times that the position Guardian has is a good place

[otto.5684]

@Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Wukie.1794 said:Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like the weapon that an elite specialization unlocks shouldn't be garbage to use. I was so excited to finish unlocking Dragon Hunter, turns out I am yet ANOTHER profession using a greatsword. Starting to feel like no matter what I choose I end up with a kitten greatsword.

Yeah it really does seem like gsword is the best weapon for every class that can use it, and if it's not, sword is. Seems like sword/gsword are just the best the majority of the time, it's very strange.

axe wants to have a word with you

axe is often not the goto primary weapon and more a nice to have secondary weapon.i would love to use more Longbow and not Zepter. Zepter looks silly on a heavy armour class. like swining a tiny stick like Harry Potter but in heavy armour from Dark Souls.

PvE wise, warrior, mirage and FB use axe as main damage weapon. GS, is reaper, guardian and soul beast. Sword is herald, holo, power Mesmer and weaver.

It is not a bad distribution in PvE between these three weapons, but for most other weapons it is.

For guardian LB in PvE, it needs more damage. Much more.

[Mysticjedi.6053]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Stalkingwolf.6035" said:

3. As we can see from the last upteenth patches ... Guardian isn't really 'moving' around on the big changes; Anet has indicated many times that the position Guardian has is a good place

I would love for a Dev to explain by what metrics the Guardian is in a good spot. When they say that are they talking within the class or compared to others? I don't mind the answer, but if Guardian has been in a good spot for so long why can't they get the other classes there? From my point of view Guardian is fun, but falling behind other classes. Longbow is just one of piece of evidence of this. Another being their trait lines. Just about every core or Specialization has received more love, for better or worse, then Guardian at this point.

[melandru.3876]

@Stalkingwolf.6035 said:i play Firebrand heal/Quickbrand and i dont use a Axe. Zepter, Mace, Staff, GS much better. Axe only when might is missing.GS for ReaperReaper also use Axe, but not as main DPS weapon

firebrand axe does not give might, it gives fury.reaper is not meta, that's why it is not included

so my point still stands

[otto.5684]

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Stalkingwolf.6035" said:

3. As we can see from the last upteenth patches ... Guardian isn't really 'moving' around on the big changes; Anet has indicated many times that the position Guardian has is a good place

I would love for a Dev to explain by what metrics the Guardian is in a good spot. When they say that are they talking within the class or compared to others? I don't mind the answer, but if Guardian has been in a good spot for so long why can't they get the other classes there? From my point of view Guardian is fun, but falling behind other classes. Longbow is just one of piece of evidence of this. Another being their trait lines. Just about every core or Specialization has received more love, for better or worse, then Guardian at this point.

Probably PvE. While there are issues, power DH, condi FB and support FB are good.

PvP on the other hand, guardian is one of the worst performing classes (excluding FB support). The low HP pool + outdated design + lack of mobility is not a formula for success.

DH in particular has significant issues in PvP. At least core is more nimble.

[melandru.3876]

@otto.5684 said:

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Stalkingwolf.6035" said:

3. As we can see from the last upteenth patches ... Guardian isn't really 'moving' around on the big changes; Anet has indicated many times that the position Guardian has is a good place

I would love for a Dev to explain by what metrics the Guardian is in a good spot. When they say that are they talking within the class or compared to others? I don't mind the answer, but if Guardian has been in a good spot for so long why can't they get the other classes there? From my point of view Guardian is fun, but falling behind other classes. Longbow is just one of piece of evidence of this. Another being their trait lines. Just about every core or Specialization has received more love, for better or worse, then Guardian at this point.

Probably PvE. While there are issues, power DH, condi FB and support FB are good.

PvP on the other hand, guardian is one of the worst performing classes (excluding FB support). The low HP pool + outdated design + lack of mobility is not a formula for success.

DH in particular has significant issues in PvP. At least core is more nimble.

hah the irony in your post

"PvP on the other hand, guardian is one of the worst performing classes (excluding FB support)."

they are the worst in pvp, yet also the best?if any game, tournament or whatever serious match shows us..it's how vital fb (+ scourge duo) is

[alain.1659]

Well he excluded firebrand already. And you are talking about a duo.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

True on the duo being a totally seperate issue in PvP , it should have it's on que seperate from solo , granted I've seen and been in teams with two duo's and it looks like they were introducing a friend or guild mate to PvP they were so uncoordinated but by and large duo players have significant advantage over a team of entirely solo matched players so using the fb + scourge duo is a little flawed in that there a good number of duo class pairings that can easily outstrip that pairing.

[otto.5684]

@melandru.3876 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Stalkingwolf.6035" said:

3. As we can see from the last upteenth patches ... Guardian isn't really 'moving' around on the big changes; Anet has indicated many times that the position Guardian has is a good place

I would love for a Dev to explain by what metrics the Guardian is in a good spot. When they say that are they talking within the class or compared to others? I don't mind the answer, but if Guardian has been in a good spot for so long why can't they get the other classes there? From my point of view Guardian is fun, but falling behind other classes. Longbow is just one of piece of evidence of this. Another being their trait lines. Just about every core or Specialization has received more love, for better or worse, then Guardian at this point.

Probably PvE. While there are issues, power DH, condi FB and support FB are good.

PvP on the other hand, guardian is one of the worst performing classes (excluding FB support). The low HP pool + outdated design + lack of mobility is not a formula for success.

DH in particular has significant issues in PvP. At least core is more nimble.

hah the irony in your post

"PvP on the other hand, guardian is one of the worst performing classes (excluding FB support)."

they are the worst in pvp, yet also the best?if any game, tournament or whatever serious match shows us..it's how vital fb (+ scourge duo) is

I am not sure you understand what irony is. Having one over powered support build does not mean the class is performing well in PvP. Support does not work if there is no one to support (like random clueless players) and clearly there is no diversity.

And this thread is about DH... so what does FB has to do with it?!

[melandru.3876]

@otto.5684 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Stalkingwolf.6035" said:

3. As we can see from the last upteenth patches ... Guardian isn't really 'moving' around on the big changes; Anet has indicated many times that the position Guardian has is a good place

I would love for a Dev to explain by what metrics the Guardian is in a good spot. When they say that are they talking within the class or compared to others? I don't mind the answer, but if Guardian has been in a good spot for so long why can't they get the other classes there? From my point of view Guardian is fun, but falling behind other classes. Longbow is just one of piece of evidence of this. Another being their trait lines. Just about every core or Specialization has received more love, for better or worse, then Guardian at this point.

Probably PvE. While there are issues, power DH, condi FB and support FB are good.

PvP on the other hand, guardian is one of the worst performing classes (excluding FB support). The low HP pool + outdated design + lack of mobility is not a formula for success.

DH in particular has significant issues in PvP. At least core is more nimble.

hah the irony in your post

"PvP on the other hand, guardian is one of the worst performing classes (excluding FB support)."

they are the worst in pvp, yet also the best?if any game, tournament or whatever serious match shows us..it's how vital fb (+ scourge duo) is

I am not sure you understand what irony is. Having one over powered support build does not mean the class is performing well in PvP. Support does not work if there is no one to support (like random clueless players) and clearly there is no diversity.

And this thread is about DH... so what does FB has to do with it?!

you made the thread about guardian as can be seen in the quote, and i'll even repost it just for you:"PvP on the other hand, guardian is one of the worst performing classes (excluding FB support)."

^ no-where in that line does it mention dh, so i adress directly what you said.

if you, as a fb-player find no one to support then that means 2 things

• you are at the wrong place
• you are in the wrong rank

also not untill long you had core-guard which was overperforming (and iss till performing more then decent, only you can't have top crit rate with zero precision investment anymore..the horror)

2/3 guardian specs in good papers, i'm pretty sure alot of the other classes would like to have those odds and "diversity" aswell