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[FEEDBACK] Siren's reef


hugo.4705

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Hey wanted to check out that new fractal, and so done it today with 4 other guildies. That fractal is perfect as a definition of "Hell". (Done it as T3)Here is point by point positive and negative aspects of the fractal:-The beginning is okay with the dinosaurs, stonehead and so on....-Arriving at the fort, black peter is quite hard, some of your friends can get downed, but it's doable with cannons.-Cave part with eyes aoe is OK if you are avoiding ALL aoes and throw away the bag when too many aoe not far from you. If not, 50 overpowered enemies on you.

AND now begin the no-fun part, ship and treasures.You have to hurry yourself to take the treasure and throw it toward the ship making a chain with your colleagues to become efficient. When retrieving treasures it's literally a condemnation to death to the one who try it. Nice, nice thing. Note that when doing all of that we were under effect of "birds instabilities" (That one should be erased from any record seriously). Of course enemies aren't stupid huh, they follow you to the ship... wasn't hard enough....

Here come Captain Crowe and the nightmare begin:You start fighting then you got blasted out the ship taking to much condis you can't even count the damages you are taking, as if it wasn't enough, a ton of waves of enemies are coming beating your knees... and hop green aoe and red aoe an elite powering allies.... when you finally thought you were safe BOOOM take that bird in your head! Ah and because it's still not enough fun, every 10% the boss spawn mobs woohoo! Ah you want more? Of course, PIRANHAS IN WATER around the ship!

Me and my four guildmates had a very bad time, infuriating at a point we asked transfer to return to observatory. Fix that kitten fight, and that kitten boss, no other word to describe them.Was happy to discover that new fractal, never, never again. (Note: it's a question of mechanics, landscapes are great as always)

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@"hugo.4705" said:Hey wanted to check out that new fractal, and so done it today with 4 other guildies. That fractal is perfect as a definition of "Hell". (Done it as T3)Here is point by point positive and negative aspects of the fractal:-The beginning is okay with the dinosaurs, stonehead and so on....-Arriving at the fort, black peter is quite hard, some of your friends can get downed, but it's doable with cannons.-Cave part with eyes aoe is OK if you are avoiding ALL aoes and throw away the bag when too many aoe not far from you. If not, 50 overpowered enemies on you.

AND now begin the no-fun part, ship and treasures.You have to hurry yourself to take the treasure and throw it toward the ship making a chain with your colleagues to become efficient. When retrieving treasures it's literally a condemnation to death to the one who try it. And you know what? Because it wasn't fun enough, if we all die before gathering the 3 treasures we have to redo the whole from the beginning. Nice, nice thing. Note that when doing all of that we were under effect of "birds instabilities" (That one should be erased from any record seriously). Of course enemies aren't stupid huh, they follow you to the ship... wasn't hard enough....

Here come Captain Crowe and the nightmare begin:You start fighting the you got blasted out the ship taking to much condis you can't even count the damages you are taking, as if it wasn't enough, a ton of waves of enemies are coming beating your knees... and hop green aoe and red aoe an elite powering allies.... when you finally thought you were safe BOOOM take that bird in your head! Ah and because it's still not enough fun, every 10% the boss spawn mobs woohoo! Ah you want more? Of course, PIRANHAS IN WATER around the ship!

Me and my four guildmates had a very bad time, infuriating at a point we asked transfer to return to observatory. Fix that kitten fight, and that kitten boss, no other word to describe them.Was happy to discover that new fractal, never, never again. (Note: it's a question of mechanics, landscapes are great as always)

The endboss event doesn't fully reset if you wipe. You are wrong there.Have you tried using reflects or blinds vs the endboss? Did you have cleave in your party? The endboss is just a joke with enough reflects. Heal not even needed. Did it with outflanked + sugar rush in T4 without a wipe and without a healer. Builds like condi FB cheese it super hard and we didn't even have one.Afflicted is what will kill you there. Should be banned in that fractal. Luckily it was there only once.

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"The endboss event doesn't fully reset if you wipe. You are wrong there." Do it great, quote it right, never said that, spoke about the three treasures part which one indeed reset if you die before bringing the three to the ship, once it's completed, yeah you restart from Captain Crowe. It's not really a question about the boss itself or reflects but the fact to be submerged by everything in same time. We had several "reflect" from turrets spawning reflective shield for projectiles and shields. Even some retaliation. We succeeded to down it at 34% but after we all died due to the very high density of enemies, yeah we focused on Elite quartermasters. Too many aoe in same time at a moment that you don't even know which is for what, adding confusion. One of my mate was fighting avoiding aoes... whereas we were all fine he got insta-downed we haven't seen that coming, no reason at all.

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The best way to play Siren's Reef regardless of tier is to have a support player in your group. Whether it's a druid, a support scrapper, a support tempest or any other healing build, as long as you have at least one support player, you shouldn't have any problems. Groups without a support tend to struggle a lot, especially on the final fight with Captain Crowe.

In my opinion, Crowe becomes unfairly difficult on higher tiers without a support in your group. The amount of things you have to keep in mind, such as the flux bomb, the unavoidable shark attack, piranhas in the water etc, it can be overwhelming for some players. So your best bet is to have a support player in your group, especially a support player who focuses on keeping allies alive.

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@"hugo.4705" said:"The endboss event doesn't fully reset if you wipe. You are wrong there." Do it great, quote it right, never said that, spoke about the three treasures part which one indeed reset if you die before bringing the three to the ship, once it's completed, yeah you restart from Captain Crowe. It's not really a question about the boss itself or reflects but the fact to be submerged by everything in same time. We had several "reflect" from turrets spawning reflective shield for projectiles and shields. Even some retaliation. We succeeded to down it at 34% but after we all died due to the very high density of enemies, yeah we focused on Elite quartermasters. Too many aoe in same time at a moment that you don't even know which is for what, adding confusion. One of my mate was fighting avoiding aoes... whereas we were all fine he got insta-downed we haven't seen that coming, no reason at all.

No the three chest part doesn't reset either. You can gg after each miniboss and still continue the next stage after that.

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So hey tell me, I did it that morning, chests reset themselves once we were all killed. If it's not intended to be like that then it's a bug. But the only thing that was saved by the fractal is the transition chest->last boss strangely.

Here is what we did: 1st chest okay, 1st chest boss beaten, dying, respawn:Fractal: return to first chest...

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@Mad As Hell.2168 said:The ranged mobs standing on the ramps where you can't melee them without going into the Fog. What a wonderful idea. Ha.

You can ignore them completely with reflects.It's a bug if everything resets after the first boss. Normally the event will continue after you killed the mobs on the ship. You also mentioned you had an engi with turret in the party. That sounds like a terrible build. Of course the fractal will be hard when you have players with such builds in the group.Can't be balanced for such builds properly or groups with normal builds will just faceroll everything even harder.

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The mistake I have seen : group focus only on the boss, without cleave without taking care of mobs, only the wind zones. Contrary to others "fractals" you have to kill the adds, or with instabilities like "bleed fire" or "300% dmg in the back" etc you'll die really fast.If you want it easy you need a lot of cleave/aoe, pulls and some reflects, condi cleanse, stab.... It's just common sense ... There is nothing hard with the right skills.Chrono, holo, DH, FB with 40 reflects, etc, even scourges work really good with poison cloud, weakness, epidemic... and the big area and foes tag.

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Hello!

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

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@Leon de Damasco.8105 said:Hello!

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

More like beat content with 5 bunkers that eventually outlast everything while happily facetank everything

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@Odik.4587 said:

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

More like beat content with 5 bunkers that eventually outlast everything while happily facetank everything

Adequate & clever strategy if you can't play such a T4 fractal - which is non-cm - properly anymore with builds that still work for all the other fracs. I still call the gazillion mob phase a horrible design.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

More like beat content with 5 bunkers that eventually outlast everything while happily facetank everything

Adequate & clever strategy if you can't play such a T4 fractal - which is non-cm - properly anymore with builds that still work for all the other fracs. I still call the gazillion mob phase a horrible design.

When I made thread about how sirens c@nc$r it was deleted :(There was on screen about 25-30 mobs and entire screen covered in aoe's . I dont have problem with any fractal but this is exceptional bs. Imagine 30 mobs explode with WE BREED FIRE and OUTFLANKED which was instabilities on that time

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Generally then need to stop overdoing it with boss mechanics, and especially adds. Make the boss have one or two defining attacks, with a define strategy for each boss, instead of "lets put a shit ton of AOE and adds all over the place". In Siren, the mobs should be removed from the boss fight entirely and the mechanic should focus on the wind gust AOE as well as the red/green mechanic. That would make for a very enjoyable fight, with three single-boss phases separated by large mob farming phases. The one thing NOT to do is mixing the two.

The thing they do best is overloading the fight with things to dodge, then give us an additional skill to counter this. Let's get this straight: this is NOT fun. Let us have a clear and readable fight with a few tools to play around, where endurance managment is more important than having a ton of reflexes. Remove the jump tool from the Oasis fractal entirely, give us an awakened springer mount for the "jump over walls" phase (this would be fun!), and remove a few AOE from the fights to compensate for the loss of the additional dodge.

I think that they are trying to give us challenges on par with the dodge mechanic which basically makes us invincible for a short duration. Here's a tip: If you want to make fights harder, begin by not giving us 25% endurange generation through fractal pots.The problem with their current design is that absolutely all bosses look the same. Having fewer dodge tools and fewer adds and AOE would allow to redistribute specific mechanics to each boss, instead of having all bosses use a little bit of everything. Each boss should have a mechanic that defines it, one that no other boss has, and have a strat based on that one mechanic, rather than it being a mere setup peice on which we put a horde of mobs and random AOE coming from gods-know-where...

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This has to be the worst new fractal they ever did. I am sorry to say this but comparing nightmare or SO with this garbage of a dungeon...man! First of all Alastia requires a specific combo in T4, birds spawn in it often and it difficult to manage, the stage for the final boss is way way to small for all the stupid effect and AOE and also the overall implementation is crap: the maze u run around with a chest, the Steve boss and the ship stage. I think this fractal should be revamped and they should just bring it to the other standards of quality they did for previous fractals.

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I on the other hand like it. It is challenging. I cleared it y-day with great difficulty as support scourge. That being said, i know my build is far from optimal and i could've done tons of damage more while providing similar support if i put my back to it.

Also meta (which i hate) doesn't emphase reflects which are a Godsent in this fractal. Since rarely anyone uses those (or other projectile hate fields) ppl get their assess kicked. Fair game.

Reason i enjoy fractals is because the fractals and instabilities often reward taking a proper approach (build) to each instead of just running same shit all day every day. Ofc static groups may get away with it, but i imagine if siren's reef had a revenant support with huge uptime on ventari's dome and large boon duration for party resist from mallyx it would certainly had a smoother clear then your average "meta" group.

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@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:Reason i enjoy fractals is because the fractals and instabilities often reward taking a proper approach (build) to each instead of just running same kitten all day every day.

And that is fair enough. In my T4 run a few days past, we had a Deadeye in the group who, after the first wipe, switched to Daredevil for better cleave.

But what do you do if you don't have the gear or experience for a different elite? Change professions? Which fractal before this required anyone to do this? Moreover, when you read a lot of these Siren's Reef threads, a common comment is the value of a condi Scourge for reflects and epi. What if you have a Reaper in your group? What if you don't have a Necro at all? Should LFG now be "T4 Sirens - LF Epi Scourge Pots/Food/ExP"?

If a single fractal actively encourages such behaviour, when all the rest combined (minus CMs) do not, is that not a big giant red flag?

Right after release, many said "its a new fractal, you have to get used to it". Sooooooo? Where are we now?

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:Reason i enjoy fractals is because the fractals and instabilities often reward taking a proper approach (build) to each instead of just running same kitten all day every day.

And that is fair enough. In my T4 run a few days past, we had a Deadeye in the group who, after the first wipe, switched to Daredevil for better cleave.

But what do you do if you don't have the gear or experience for a different elite? Change professions? Which fractal before this required anyone to do this? Moreover, when you read a lot of these Siren's Reef threads, a common comment is the value of a condi Scourge for reflects and epi. What if you have a Reaper in your group? What if you don't have a Necro at all? Should LFG now be "T4 Sirens - LF Epi Scourge Pots/Food/ExP"?

If a single fractal actively encourages such behaviour, when all the rest combined (minus CMs) do not, is that not a big giant red flag?

Right after release, many said "its a new fractal, you have to get used to it". Sooooooo? Where are we now?

As a reaper I stand there and cleave mobs, all of them, given I get healed from time to time, I trim mobs on both sides. Tho condi epidemic does it better.

In case you didn't note guys. Bosses in Sirens are nothing, absolute ZERO besides daze, the do NOTHING. All challenge on the bosses is waves of mobs.Pity I thought i like the fractal.

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@Odik.4587 said:

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

More like beat content with 5 bunkers that eventually outlast everything while happily facetank everything

Adequate & clever strategy if you can't play such a T4 fractal - which is non-cm - properly anymore with builds that still work for all the other fracs. I still call the gazillion mob phase a horrible design.

When I made thread about how sirens c@nc$r it was deleted :(There was on screen about 25-30 mobs and entire screen covered in aoe's . I dont have problem with any fractal but this is exceptional bs. Imagine 30 mobs explode with WE BREED FIRE and OUTFLANKED which was instabilities on that time

If there are 30 mobs on screen you're doing the boss mechanic wrong. Stop tunneling on the boss and clear out the adds. The boss spawns adds as it drops lower in hp. This fight is an exercise in self control in not just dps racing the boss. Has been pretty easy in all of my pugs when I convinced the group to not tunnel vision.

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Favorite fractals : Chaos, Nightmare, SnowblindLeast favorite : Swampland, aquatic ruins, solid ocean.

Without the last boss Siren's reef is a little like Underground, lots of mobs, one little boss in the middle with a kind of specific puzzle/mecanisms inside.For the last boss, the base is also a mix between mecanics and mobs management, but the Massiv waves of trash mobs are almost ridiculous here.I agree level of the boss is not a problem but the visual cluster is still a real one. Even if u have the "perfect team".

Im not fan but i dont hate Underground, even with ice boss. It can be done without getting a headache. Twilght Oasis have some issues with visual effects too, but not like that (and we got the special jump to avoid AoE + breath a little). Sirens boss we cant breath, sometimes we cant see (mobs or wind) and even if artillery phase can be a good idea, sometimes we cant use it proprely coz of the mobs, birds or other instas.

There is some good ideas on this fract, but really because of the mobs zombie invasion, i'll continue to avoid it entirely.Or i'll go in T1/T2 sometimes, if new players survive.. thats all.

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