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Master Ketsu.4569
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If you could only do one balance change on each class?
Master Ketsu.4569
Member ✭✭✭✭
Here's a thread that provides a "fun" way to highlight what people think is the main problem with each class. What would you do if you could only change one skill, trait, or base ability to fix the game? Feel free to either do one for all classes or just the ones you are familiar with. You can also do one per elite spec as they sort of count as a "class".
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Here is an example to start:
Thief ( core ) - Dagger storm no longer a trick r: random resets on this skill are non interactive and annoying
Deadeye - silent scope reverted May 22 2018 r: a no ICD stealth on dodge is bad for the game.
Mirage - Mirage cloak now causes 3 seconds of exhaustion when it ends if it was either used while CCed or fails to evade an attack r: first part of this nerf is obvious and has been asked for by the community for ages. Second part is mainly to discourage monkey style gameplay by adding some counterplay to it so attentive players have a way to punish mirages that are just mindlessly spamming evades with a weapon stow.
Ranger ( core ) - Axe 1 only stacks might when it critically hits r: this skill currently allows for tanky builds doing too much damage
Soulbeast- Dolyak stance no longer reduces damage r: Why this skill was buffed remains a mystery to all.
Revenant ( core ) - Added Duelists preparation ( 2 second block ) back to sword 4. Shackling wave now deals only 1 strike, +2 strikes if DP blocks an attack r: this is the simplest way to kill two Rev problems with one stone. Currently Rev burst is arguably too high, but Rev has problems without support. This change reduces Rev burst damage while giving them better defense in return.
Engineer ( core ) - Reverted Elixer U to February 22, 2017 r: this is mainly a problem with Holosmith, but regardless quickness and on demand stab is too much on the same skill as it encourages spammy gameplay.
if only things were that simple
I Have No friends, so I Must pug
Instead of tackling the problem and remove that ability to mirage cloak while cced you choose to Smiter's boon an entire elite spec but sure let's play that game:
Rev - everytime you swap legends while having less than 50% energy you begin with 0 energy.
Holo - everytime you fail to hit with a forge skill your heat level rises 50%
Sb - when you merge with your pet while having more than 2 boons, all boons are removed and your pet stats are subtracted from yours.
DE - when you fail to evade an attack you're revealed for 3sec.
And so on.
Now everything requires a brain to play yay!
The degenerate
these are horrible
I Have No friends, so I Must pug
I know they're, they were only made to show how pathetic his mirage suggestion is.
The degenerate
Warrior:
Combustive Shot : Increase Number of Targets to 10. Now pulses every 1.5 Seconds instead of every 3 Seconds. Dmg and Burning are decreased appropriately.
Engi:
Buff Medi Kit Auto and fix the Animation.
Mesmer:
Remove Stealth from Torch.
Guardian:
Decrease casttime of Mace Symbol.
Revenant:
Let the Tablet follow you around like a pet.
Necro:
Remove the Shade effect around the scourge himself.
Ele:
Make Aura Share from Water 10 Targets.
Thief: Don’t care.
Ranger: Don’t care.
That was kind of the point.
@Master Ketsu.4569: 3 seconds of exhaustion for failing to evade an attack with Mirage Cloak? Careful there, your bias is showing.
If you wanted to stop people from dodging while cced do what countless suggested: Remove the ability for mirage cloak to dodge while cced (outside of using EM), put EM on a 20 sec cd and remove the exhaustion, have the player's endurance bar turn blue when it's off cd so they can play around it. Could also put ambush skills on like a 5 sec cd for both the player and clones to prevent them from being spammed which reduces mirage damage output without actually gutting the spec. Ofc more changes are probably needed but I feel like this is a better way to address what you're trying to do with mirage.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62375/fa-and-jq-modes#latest Make this a thing anet!
Derd-
Simplicity would only work if past lessons were learned
-Learning Lessons= Simplicity-Apply Lessons
-UnLearned Lessons= Repetition-History Repeat Itself
Have a good day everyone
'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'
Not saying I agree with it, but devil's advocate: How's it any less punishing than losing adrenaline + benefits from not triggering a full counter?
This is kinda difficult, cuz many changes are needed, but here is a shot:
Guardian: FB, reduce heal scaling of tome of resolve.
Warrior: increase viability of dagger off hand.
Rev: renegade, improve viability of summons by making them invulnerable (and change the daze).
Mesmer: limit the clone creation from GS and staff summons to 1.
Ele: not sure.
Necro: not sure. I think necro is in a good place. Maybe increase power scourge builds viability.
Ranger: soul beast, significantly lower boon stacking.
Eng: holo, significantly lower boon stacking, specifically quickness, protection and might.
Thief: deadeye, remove the invis on dodge. Create compensating mechanics as needed.
How to kill Revenant with one change
EDIT: Didn't see it was a joke
Revenant core: switch between 3 viable legends
You asking wrong question there. Why DE malice stay at full if you miss sneak attack and why its all being 'saved' on re-mark.
If you want to compare ,compare similar mechanics,not evades. If we speak about evades. We can add 3s exhaust to every evade and 5s icd aegis re-applying effect.
Mirage Cloak is both a Mirage's dodge as well as one of its major attack mechanics by giving access to ambush skills. Mirages only have up to two dodges at any given time like every other spec except DD. They have one of the lowest vigor uptimes after nerfs (so actually OP's issue has already been directly addressed).
Because one of their biggest sources of pressure is tied to dodging, Mirages can't afford to waste them. No one dodges just because. They dodge because they think they're about to be hit and/or to use an ambush skill. OP's suggestion would end using Mirage Cloak just for the ambush. It would punish Mirages for dodging defensively, when no other spec is punished that way. And because the skill is a prerequisite for one of Mirage's primary attacks, the spec would be gutted.
However, that isn't a surprise based on OP's posts in the various nerf mesmer threads. This was supposedly a thread to suggest a change to each spec, but managed to be yet another thinly veiled call to delete Mirage.
I remember when people on the mes forums were saying that elusive mind 3 second exhaustion nerf would smiters boon the spec. I just remembered how right they were and how mirage immediately fell to F-tier and totally did not remain S+ for another few seasons. You are all right. Mirage cloak is balanced and should see no changes.
No, they said it would smiter's boon the trait. Not the spec, the trait. You misrepresented two things in that post. The second is that people think Mirage Cloak doesn't need any changes, it needs to not be usable under CC. That's it.
Mesmer: Blinding Dissipation: Clones cause Blindness (3 sec) when they Shatter. (this can only activate once per shatter)
Mirage: Infinite Horizon: The mirage cloak gained by clones does not make them invulnerable (they gain the icon though)
Chronomancer: ChronoPantasma and Illusionary Reversion are now at the same tier
Thief: Flanking Strike: No longer un-blockable
Daredevil: Distracting Daggers: This skill no longer has ammo. This skill has a it's recharge reduced to 3 seconds if your successfully interrupt a foe with a dagger.
Deadeye: Silent Scope: You no longer gain Stealth in dodge. Death's retreat has it's distance reduced to 400 and it's initiative reduced to 3.
Guardian: Judges Intervention: Now has a 1/2 sec cast time (with animation)
Dragon Hunter: Hunter's Determination: (New trait) Becoming stunned while near a Fragment of Faith consumes it instead.
Firebrand: Nothing is glaring atm... it's also late.
Ranger: Protective Ward: Now has no ICD and activates each time you lose 25% of your health in a single strike.
Soulbeast: Dolyak Stance: Remove the damage and condition damage reduction. Stability stacks reduced to three.
Druid: Celestial Shadow: Super speed and stealth are now only granted to you and your pet.
Necromancer: Each mark now has a unique animation of it being summoned on the ground (visual tell)
Reaper: Chilling Nova: Critically hitting a chilled foe deals damage and chills non-chilled nearby foes (remove ICD)
Scourge: Reduce visual noise somehow. . . it's too late i gtg to bed otherwise would figure it out.
Warrior: Defy Pain: Is replaced with a different trait
Berserker: Sundering Leap: CD reduced to 15 sec. Damage increased to 800. Applies 2 seconds of Immobilize.
Spellbreaker: Magebane Tether: Pull now only activates if you are facing your foe.
Elementalist: Blinding Flash: Now has a 1/2 sec animation and requires you to be facing your foe.
Engineer: Elixir S: Now cancels Stomp
Holosmith: Thermal Release Valve: Now only reduces heat when in Photon Forge mode
Scrapper: Shredder Gyro: Now regenerates health as it strikes foes.
Revenant: Riposting Shadows: Now requires at least 30 energy but consumes all energy when used.
Herald: Elemental Blase (consume): Now has a 1/2 sec cast time and deals 1/3 the damage it used to. This skill now deals 10% more damage for every 2 seconds of swiftness you have (max 200% more damage).
Renegade: Summons: When summoned have 20% more health for each enemy within 1200 units.
It doesn't stay at full. If you miss death's judgement you still lose all malice.
There's literally no reason to nerf flanking strike. There is literally no 1 complaining thief is op. It's dps is laughable compared to other classes. The only good thing going for it is that it's a good clean up +1.
For DE's changes you should play DE to find that with out slient scope you basically just die. You should also find that a DE has zero swiftness and is dead slow.thats why deaths retreat is needed. This limits a DE to only shortbow as the alternate set. You are basically trying to make it a class that has zero defense and escape. So you can 1 shot it With out any means to escape by changing it's only 2 defensive traits.while arguebly slient scope needs to be removed. Something else defensive must replace it. Else it will just become a dead class.
[Holographic Shockwave]
Activation: ¾ / Recharge: 15s
Silent Scope (Deadeye Master Major)
This traited version of [Death's Retreat] would no longer function as a leap finisher.
[Judge's Intervention]
Recharge: 50s
Teleport to the target location. If a foe is at the target location, you reveal nearby foes and create a Symbol of Protection.
This is now a free-aim teleport with a 180 radius target reticle; the skill only applies revealed and creates a Symbol of Protection at the target location if the player manages to "hit" one or more foes with this target reticle.
[Frozen Ground]
Recharge: 30s
Target area removes defensive boons and inflicts chill. Foes in the area revive more slowly.
[Shield Stance]
Activation: 3s / Recharge: 30s
At every interval, grant a barrier to yourself and adjacent allies. While standing still, you also taunt adjacent foes at every interval (foes cannot be taunted in this way more than once every 5 seconds)
Grants the listed barrier immediately, and then again at the end of each second throughout its duration (for a total of 4 packets of barrier and 4 chances to inflict taunt respectively).
[Infuse Light]
Recharge: 30s
Legendary Dragon. Consume. Consume Facet of Light to gain aegis and regain health over time.
Necro is kind of a mess, and I can't immediately be bothered to pin down any single thing to buff, nerf, or outright change (I could bring a bunch of stuff to the table, but no single thing). Same goes for Mesmer, but the the easy generation and baseline function of Mirage Cloak is the obvious point of contention (although Chrono CD reset and core stealth burst are respectively just about as cancerous, so it's kind of a heavy bag of nonsense for that class).
I'm reading some of these suggestions and I can't tell if any of these are serious or not, if they are then I'm so glad (and hope) none of you are behind balance changes. I wish you could actually test these out so you could see just how stupid they would be in practice.
This is all because RP reasons!! Fun fun fun!!
Mine are entirely just limiting or culling low effort, damage negation cancer. It's exclusively a "git gud and have fun" patch (only thing missing is mesmer nerfs). I'd test them out easy if anet wasn't so baselessly reserved with their assets. You'd think that they were the college of cardinals electing a pope or something with the way they sit silently while the PvP minigame rots for six years.
Humm... I'd do something like that:
Weaver: Traits that reduce attunment skill's CD now also affect dual skills.
Engineer: increase tool kit's auto attack chain's speed by reducing 3rd skill cast time and some after cast.
Holosmith: Replaced cristal configuration: eclypse's stability by protection.
Guardian: righteous instinct grant fury per interval instead of increasing critical chance.
Firebrand: Increase charge recovery of mantra of liberation from 25s to 40s.
Mesmer: Illusion of life: changed to stealth (3s) downed ally and grant barrier (1000) to allies in the area.
Mirage: desert distorsion: Ambush skills no longer become available while under the effect of distorsion, instead they become available under the effect of stealth.
Necromancer: Unholy sanctuary: Instead of the regeneration effect, grant barrier (5000) when you enter the shroud. (scourge's desert shroud no longer grant barrier)
Scourge: Demonic lore: the scourge's combo in dark field now also torment (5s) foes. Desert shroud now proc a whirl finisher with each tic.
Ranger: Invigorating bond: removed ICD, reduced base healing to 700.
Soulbeast: Dolyak stance: reduce stability stack to 3, the stance now only reduce condition damage by 33%. Add 6 second protection on use.
Revenant: Rite of the great dwarf: reduced cast time to 3/4.
Renegade: Increase citadel bombardment radius to 200.
Thief: Improvisation: no longer recharge skill type, Instead the skill improve stolen skills. (essence sap, mace head crack and Ice shard stab now cleave hitting up to 3 foes. Blinding tuft and consume plasma affect up to 3 allies. Throw gunk and healing seed have an increased radius. Skull fear now also apply vulnerability while whirling axe destroy incoming projectile.)
Deadeye: change Be quick or be killed to: reveal yourself and gain quickness when marking a foe, while under the effect of reveal gain 200 power/precision.
Warrior: Vengeful return: killing a foe while in vengeance now have 100% of rallying (made baseline). Added to the trait: gain retaliation when you use vengeance.
Thief - Undo the nerfs to lead attacks, and make the plasma steal skill retain the same benefits from the old plasma. Make the plasma that rangers get from their pets lesser plasma which uses the current version of consume plasma with reduces boon duration.
Engineer - Reduce protection uptime. Someway, somehow.
Ranger - Reduce protection uptime. Reduce damage and condi damage reduction on Dolyak stance. Increase "Sic 'em" CD time back to 40 or even 45, and give Unstoppable Union an internal CD higher than 10s.
Guardian - Undo nerfs that increased CD on tomes, and increase the CD of Signet of Mercy
Warrior - Make Defense great again! Redo the entire middle-section of the defense line(Every trait there is awful.) Buff Rousing Resilience. Remove a good chunk of those nasty damage modifiers we're forced to stack. Make it so that rampage is unaffected by the decreased CD benefit from Peak Performance. Make Full Counter have some sort of use. Make Berserker viable.
Rev - Make Renegade playable in PvP(Rework?)
Necro - Make Reaper's Onslaught apply quickness only when entering and exiting shroud, and at longer durations rather than constantly reapplying the entire time you're in shroud.
If there were ever a class to rework I think it would be Scourge. I don't think it's overpowered I just personally find it very boring to play, especially in a meta where everything is super bursty and you get downed in a blink in most teamfights. Beyond that I don't think it's very intuitively designed, because it just boils down to spamming circles on the ground. Maybe this is a personal problem or maybe necro needs an elite specialization capable of winning 1v1s.
Mesmer - Remove desperate decoy(I thought Arenanet hated passives like this.) Remove the mirage cloak effect on clones with Infinite Horizon, make them only use the ambush skill(There is actually no good reason to run Elusive minds in its current state, when compared to Infinite Horizons. You can dodge while CC'd and have your clones apply pressure while CC'd versus the elusive mind debuff.) Increase internal CD on Evasive Mirror(It's literally lower than the duration of the mirror itself.). Remove target-break on Axe 3(It already has evade frames and a rather strong condi-stacking effect.) Remove target break on Illusionary ambush( It gives mirage cloak anyway.) Make it so that you have to actually face your target to use the axe ambush skill. Never allow Chrono-bunk to exist again.
Ele - Reduce CD on Tempest shout skills, maybe buff them to have additional effects as well such as "Eye of the Storm!" Reduce CD on weaver skills to give them some staying power in this burst meta.
Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
Patch-culture is awful
Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.
Stacked full malice on golem ,threw DJ and other 'sneak' attacks off golem. Never lost malice PogChamp
Even asked randoms to evade DJ. Never lost malice. So from where you got that false info ,do you play thief lad?;D
I stand corrected, you are correct. Just tired it.
I would like this if the healing would be increased to a total of like 12k or if the CD would be reduced to 20-24s
If you'd implement it like you would you would make an already bad self-healing class even worse since infused light gives 4k health instantly and you're likely to be hit for more than 4k after activation.
But I think they should totally change the heal to be more something like that or an instant heal so Revenant can disengage, heal and engage again instead of having to be in the enemy's face all the time
I do play deadeye pretty regularly, I just didn't notice because I don't use death's judgement all that much. I use it when I get a f2 stolen ability and I am out of int at the end of the chain. If I miss it, its not worth wasting a dodge for it. Its too telegraphed. Theres also a lot of reflect. in a situation where you gotta finish a downed body or even finish some 1 off. skills 1, 2 or 3 is better. since if they ate 2x skills 3s and I have 25 stacks of might they are almost dead anyway.
Marks already have a different cast animation maybe only change already placed marks looks.
Fyi DJ made from out of your sight is invisible like from stealth behind you . You cant see laser .May be its just me but all I see its numbers when I get hit . Same for mesmer scepter 3 as our le world champion were complaining not long time ago (along side with post he reported about his lack of knowledge on few abilities :P )
Players need to have some recourse for avoiding Sword 3. ATM both parts are unblockable with is insane. Counter-play needeed. There are such things as combo fields in this game. My DE change was designed to let a rifle DE gain stealth by using Death's Retreat in Sniper's Cover field. I've heard DE mains that say that the stealth on dodge is unnecessary since they can gain whatever stealth is needed if they are smart and play well anyway.
But there needs to be a placement tell so players know where the marks are about to appear and can react accordingly.
Evades? Blinds? Idk but if you take the unblockable away S/D Core Thief will be kitten.
Mesmer: Power lock reduced range to 300 from 1200. Also added a cast time of 1/2 sec with a big tell visual animation. Can't perform Power lock from stealth.
Chronomancer: remove Deja vu. You already blocking attacks, summoning phantasm and gaining protection and still moving while blocking, i don't see why you should be even more rewarded for blocking in an aoe spam game.
Mirage: if you want to keep all your defensive tools, then you will have to sacrifice your attacks: add 1s cast time (with animation) for f1-f2-f3 shatters when choosing mirage trait line. This is to make Mirage more susceptible to CC and daze effects.
Boonbeast: remove any stability gain from dolyak stance. You are already a kiting class with the higher dmg reduction in the game, why you need stability?
holosmith: too much quickness, no time to react even to big tell animations make the game with no counterplays. No more quickness gain from radiant arc.
Revenant: skill 4 sword off hand no more dmg, bring it back to a normal block as it was. Revenant lacks defence, not DMG. Also reduce the cast time and energy consumption for this skill off course.
Herald: shield skill 5 allow you to move and doesnt root you in place anymor
Renegade: add/replace a short bow skill with a movement skill (no care wich type, if a back roll or a translate left or right after using the skill) that consume no energy. Renegade lacks on defence and mobility, and has already big energy consuming skills with low reward.
Warrior: Rampage: 150 second cooldown. This should be your last resource instead of another possible CC spam abuse.
Spellbreaker: Disrupting Stab, remove the stun effect. You are already dazing the target and dealing more dmg because he was using a skill, why another stun reward?
Thief: pistol 4 no more spammable, add a 1/2 cast time to pistol 4. Stop the no brain spam of CC in this game plz. If you can CC, you have to time it.
Deadeye: no more stealth on evade. Why rewarding a class for evading an attack? The evade itself is already the reward!
Guardian: big tell animation 3/4s cast time on Judge intervention. So that you can't easy chain skills with it while teleporting.
Druid: remove stealth from celestial shadow. You are a Druid not a Thief. Stop giving stealth to any class randomly. Replace the stealth effect with vigor (2s).
Necromancer/Scourge why all the animations for these classes look the same? Can't you put more effort on the animation for this classes? Really these classes look like AOE spam bots simply because all of their animation looks all the same!!! Especialy the staff ones, simply shaking his left hand...
Warrior - Frenzy is now at a 30 second cd
Thief: I think that would be a bad change. How would you interrupt anything if your interrupt skill has 1/2s cast time? You‘d have to guess which skill your enemy will use next insted of locking at the animation and actually time it properly. Besides if you spam it (2-3 times) you‘re gonna die because you won‘t have initiative left to do anything. And btw it‘s a 1/4s daze, not CC.
There are other unblockables in game aswell as thru traits,ranger being example that can do far greater damage per hit and thru burst set ups using unblickables while being more sustainable. Flanking strike definitely is not an issue.
I would increase the base health for our chars, especially for Guardian, Thief, Elementalist who only get 11,645 of this.
Ascalon Will Prevail!
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Daze is a CC. I think in this game only two type of skills should have no cast time: stun breakers and autoattacks.
Well okay, I doesn‘t really matter what we call it. My point still stands tho, atm you use all you‘re Initiative for 3/4s of daze if you spam it. Imo that‘s punishment enough. And how would you use the skill if your changes would be made? I‘d say the skill becomes useless but maybe you see something that I don‘t?
Thief complete redesign/rework from the ground up- with no exceptions, remove stealth and condition stacking and attacking while in stealth.
Mesmer-return Mesmer to Gw1 Mesmer. Completely and specialize confusion and teleport only to Mesmer
Necromancer- specialize torment and fear only to Necromancer, allow all minions s to detect Stealth. Increase all minions stats. Allow Necromance to gain access to Gw1 Ritualist spirits
Guardian- town down damage, increase defence. Increase Guardian spirits stats
Warrior-increase cool-down to offensive skills and traits, decrease defence. Increase banners stats
Ranger-address boon beast, allow all pets to detect stealth, specialize traps only to Ranger. Increase spirit stats
Elementalist- town down damage-with no exceptions, increase health pool
Revenant- town down damage-with no exceptions. Allow Revenant to gain access to more than 2 Legendaries
Engineer-town down damage-with no exceptions. Increase Med kit stats
-Obviously all changes would be carefully monitored-
'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'
Maybe we play different games, but seriously speaking, is there a single time where you think you won't interrupt any skill using your pistol 4? Since when a player stay more than 1/2 a second not casting a skill in gw2? Are we playing slow turn based MMORPG? And Just to mention, you know an interrupted skill goes in CD? Isn't it dumb that a skill with no CD and no cast time can send your skills in CD for 5s?
But if you prefer, we can change a little the variant: allow pistol 4 to be an immediate 900 range skill (omg so stupid, but whatever) but put in it a 10 seconds CD, so that it can't be spammed and thief has to start thinking which skill is better to interrupt.
Not every skill has a cast. And you did still not answer how you interrupt a skill if the interrupt hast castime.
Initiative is a resource you can spam if you want but you‘ll get punished if you do. That‘s just how thief works.
1/2 rupts won't interrupt anything other than preemptively guessing oh and churning earth.
The degenerate
Mirage and necro are probably the easiest.
Necro:
reason: the spec lost all of its opening burst. It was pushed to a sitting duck bruiser playstyle. Therefore it needs more utility to deal with encounters.
Mirage:
reason: currently mirage can not be punished in any way. Every single counterplay is nullified as long as the mirage has endurance.
is very simple, you interrupt skills that have more than 3/4s cast time. If you are focusing also in skills that have 1/2s or lower, then you are not interrupting important skills, you are just spamming.
The best part of this thread is seeing just how many people don't understand the classes they'd want to nerf.
Hah.
The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!