Should I get condi or power BS warior first? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Should I get condi or power BS warior first?

Hello,
I'm fairly new player and decided to play bannerslave warrior for raids and fractals. I've got a full set of ascended armor but can't decide wheather I should choose viper or berserker stats. I know the best option is to get both but getting second set of armor will take a while, so for now I'm stuck with only one.
I like both playstyles of berserker and spellbreaker, though I'm not a fan of greatsword so power build without it would be appreciated.
Which is overall better for most situations? Which is easier to get into raids and fractals with as a new player?

Comments

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm no warrior main and know little of'em. But i do know that Phalanx Strength builds require Greatsword. If that is not your cup of tea then go condi. A power warr that doesn't share might ... might be given quite a few cold stares. While condi warr who has no business using that weapon won't get any scorn for it.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    From my knowledge condi zerker is pointless in fractals since power warr/spb have much stronger burst. Majority of warrs in raids have (for some reason) low damage regardless of their build and banners add a huge chunk of squad dps anyway. Besides, you'll want a training guild for raids and those dont require 100% optimal builds and performance on every single boss, so power is good enough for start.

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  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2019

    Go power, yes warrior would have low damage cus they have to trait banners to boost party damage. But that is why people want banner warrior.
    Party struggles with breakbar, warrior goes double mace -viola. etc, etc

    Check metabattle/snowcrow for build, warrior needs several assassin peaces. And don't worry about second condi set you might need fro couple of bosses in raids, when you get to t4s you will have most of it gear drop, ascended mats.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • I would pick power warrior definitely. You need ascended for fractals and power warrior is superior to condi there. It still does good damage in raids, but need some different equipment (changing some zerk items to assassins, changing impact sigil to accuracy to reach 100% crit chance) there because in fractals u get extra precision from potions.
    You wont have to worry about might stacking that Zerf said, its the druid's job, not yours. I always use Axe/Axe + Mace/Mace (Mace/Shield where the breakbar comes back faster) in fractals and raids. I would only consider playing Greatsword instead of Mace/X if you dont have to CC at all in the fight. Its only a small DPS increase to have it as 2nd weapon set and i would say just forget GS altogether, its better to just camp A/A for dmg.
    As a power warrior you will play Core everywhere, except in fractals where you have to change to Spellbreaker sometimes if the fractal or instability needs the boonrip (tho u can stay Core if the chrono handles the boonrips).
    I advise you level up your crafting (armorsmithing in your case to 400) and craft exotic viper's gear for condi. That way you can change between power and condi warrior easily for raids and you already have ascended gear for the pWar for fractals.

  • Phalanx Strength doesn't require Greatsword tbh, and warrior damage isn't bad. IMO power first since it's really easy to gear with berserker stuff.

  • Condi bs does 35k to the golem with dis, does 29k with tactics. Power bs does 26k. If your ascended armor is pick any stat, get viper because it is harder to get. Doing random fractals will give boxes that give berserker stats, but not vipers.

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Power definetly. Has alot more use and builds. You do not need GS, since you will be playing support mainly anyway, which consists of axe/axe + mace/mace, or axe/axe + dagger/mace (if you need to play Spellbreaker for boon removal).

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you are going to Raid take condi bs. If you are mostly doing fractals take Power.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    If you are going to Raid take condi bs. If you are mostly doing fractals take Power.

    Was about to write a lengthy explanation, but sokeenoppa basically nailed it.

    I might suggest power for fractals overall as first set, simply because you can get a second ascended set (which you can use to get condi gear) via fractals, so you really should be running fractals while getting into raiding.

  • Power sets are so much easier to come by. I believe GS can be swapped for two maces as well. I believe the easiest way would be to go Fractals/Raids as Power BS and use most of the drops to gear the condi variant.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭

    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    In addtion, talking about raid wings we see a clear pattern where condi banner slave is used in wing 1->5 in almost all encounters except for basically sloth and samarog. Wing 1-4 is also the most common wings new players start out in.

    For fractals, power is used in static groups since the boss die so fast that it counts as a short damage phase. For normal T4 pug group a condi warrior is fine.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    If you are going to Raid take condi bs. If you are mostly doing fractals take Power.

    I second (third ?) this. Raids condi, fractals power. And taking into account that doing fractals more often is more plausible i would start with power. If you want to focus more on raids the go condi since there are bosses that a power BS might be practically insignificant beside the banners.

    Also no need for GS in the power build. You can stick to Axe/Axe Mace/Mace. The dps loss is not much and it bring miles more cc.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    In addtion, talking about raid wings we see a clear pattern where condi banner slave is used in wing 1->5 in almost all encounters except for basically sloth and samarog. Wing 1-4 is also the most common wings new players start out in.

    Yes, it was clearly stated that condition is used more in raids. Given that as a new player he won't start with clearing W1-4 immediately, but might very well be running fractals daily, going power for maximum efficiency on content makes sense.

    For fractals, power is used in static groups since the boss die so fast that it counts as a short damage phase. For normal T4 pug group a condi warrior is fine.

    Lol. No, power provides cc and is used for its way lower ramp up time compared to condi.

    Power is vastly superior to condi in fractals, this has nothing to do with statics but rather with knowing how to play your class.

    An experienced warrior should be going power for fractals in 90% of all cases.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    In december 6th 2017, developer Irenio CalmonHuang explained:
    Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    A lot of have written since then about how a ramping up condition damage make no sense if power can create the same dps without ramping up and with more utility. Thus we have seen a lot of nerf to power in practically every balance patch since that date.

    An experienced warrior should be going power for fractals in 90% of all cases.

    An experienced warrior will be playing with experienced players in 90% of all cases and thus clearing the boss with the speed that makes power out dps condition. The additional CC is nice but far from required in the less than perfect pugging when a new player start doing fractals. I will not assume that a new player instantly enters statics that clear every boss quickly when just starting out. The strong heal on condition warrior is also useful when starting out in fractals, allows for range, and have much better survivability when the group has no healer.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Considering some of the top power builds are DH and DD with insanely easy rotations, yes golem benchmarks are disconnected from reality, as in power will perform a lot higher on raid bosses given that most condi builds are more complex.

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    Or maybe condi builds are meta on those bosses because they provide additional benefits like boon removal or conditions to epi share or there is a lot of movement involved where certain condition classes are heavily benefited.

    How about we remove Desmina (added benefit of epi clearing the add), Largos and Matthias from the condi beneficial fights? how many are left which prefer condition damage? You know the fights which have heavy movement and are thus not beneficial for power builds and are favoring mirage?

    Dhuum is benefiting condi renegade since they are top dps on big hit boxes AND provide boon removal. There is literally currently almost no raid boss fight which would make condi better than power UNLESS it has mechanics favoring condition damage heavily.

    EDIT:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    In december 6th 2017, developer Irenio CalmonHuang explained:
    Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    A lot of have written since then about how a ramping up condition damage make no sense if power can create the same dps without ramping up and with more utility. Thus we have seen a lot of nerf to power in practically every balance patch since that date.

    You are aware that since then, there has been severe nerfs to condition damage in both food, boss immunities and class nerfs as well as power damage buffs? Yes, if we go by the state of the game of 2017, when condition builds were dominating the raid scene, then you are correct. Since then a lot has changed. We are in 2019 atm and power builds have been dominating the meta for a long time.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Considering some of the top power builds are DH and DD with insanely easy rotations, yes golem benchmarks are disconnected from reality, as in power will perform a lot higher on raid bosses given that most condi builds are more complex.

    DH has one of the highest burst DPS. Check gw2raidar leader boards and we see VG taking 2m 8 seconds. We are talking about DPS phases that is counted in seconds,
    DD has two niches currently. It has really good burst thanks to a signet that last 5 seconds, and a steal skill that on specific bosses brings good CC. The combination of high burst dps and CC skill is why tempest got nerfed to death.

    Combine that and it is easy to see which bosses DH and DD is favoured on and why.

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    Or maybe condi builds are meta on those bosses because they provide additional benefits like boon removal or conditions to epi share or there is a lot of movement involved where certain condition classes are heavily benefited.

    No. Condition warrior has no boon removal. The build do allow for ranged combat which benefit bosses with a lot of movement.

    EPI is not really a relevant aspect. We are basically talking about Desmina where it actually matters. MO isn't really a fight people need to design a composition for, and sloth is a power boss.

    How about we remove Desmina (added benefit of epi clearing the add), Largos and Matthias from the condi beneficial fights? how many are left which prefer condition damage? You know the fights which have heavy movement and are thus not beneficial for power builds and are favoring mirage?
    Dhuum is benefiting condi renegade since they are top dps on big hit boxes AND provide boon removal. There is literally currently almost no raid boss fight which would make condi better than power UNLESS it has mechanics favoring condition damage heavily.

    If we discount for those 3, condi warrior is then highly favoured in 8 others encounters and commonly used in a couple of others. It is easier to count which bosses favour power warror. Sloth (short dps phases and condi depleting phases), samarog (short dps phases and both cc phases and condi cleansing phases), CA (hands that have extremely short dps phases and condi do not transfer), and Qadim which can simplified be described as having relative short dps phase with condi cleansing between. See the commonality between them?

    For warriors we can easily see the design of high dps condition damage but with the drawback of ramping up. For DPS classes this is a bit different, but still applicable to a degree. The rework of DE made it initially extremely powerful, but isn't used that much now days for several reasons. Sword weaver and power chrono is considered one of the hardest and most finicky builds to play, but do see some use. They are not builds I would recommend to a new player unless I wanted them to leave the game. For a new player that want to play DPS (which this thread is not about), my general recommendation is mirage, DH, and DD. Mirage for condi bosses, DH for a handful of bosses, and DD for everything else.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2019

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Considering some of the top power builds are DH and DD with insanely easy rotations, yes golem benchmarks are disconnected from reality, as in power will perform a lot higher on raid bosses given that most condi builds are more complex.

    DH has one of the highest burst DPS. Check gw2raidar leader boards and we see VG taking 2m 8 seconds. We are talking about DPS phases that is counted in seconds,
    DD has two niches currently. It has really good burst thanks to a signet that last 5 seconds, and a steal skill that on specific bosses brings good CC. The combination of high burst dps and CC skill is why tempest got nerfed to death.

    Combine that and it is easy to see which bosses DH and DD is favoured on and why.

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    Or maybe condi builds are meta on those bosses because they provide additional benefits like boon removal or conditions to epi share or there is a lot of movement involved where certain condition classes are heavily benefited.

    No. Condition warrior has no boon removal. The build do allow for ranged combat which benefit bosses with a lot of movement.

    EPI is not really a relevant aspect. We are basically talking about Desmina where it actually matters. MO isn't really a fight people need to design a composition for, and sloth is a power boss.

    How about we remove Desmina (added benefit of epi clearing the add), Largos and Matthias from the condi beneficial fights? how many are left which prefer condition damage? You know the fights which have heavy movement and are thus not beneficial for power builds and are favoring mirage?
    Dhuum is benefiting condi renegade since they are top dps on big hit boxes AND provide boon removal. There is literally currently almost no raid boss fight which would make condi better than power UNLESS it has mechanics favoring condition damage heavily.

    If we discount for those 3, condi warrior is then highly favoured in 8 others encounters and commonly used in a couple of others. It is easier to count which bosses favour power which is sloth (short dps phases and condi depleting phases), samarog (short dps phases and both cc phases and condi cleansing phases), CA (hands that have extremely short dps phases and condi do not transfer), and Qadim which can simplified be described as having relative short dps phase with condi cleansing between. See the commonality between them?

    For warriors we can easily see the design of high dps condition damage but with the drawback of ramping up. For DPS classes this is a bit different, but still applicable to a degree. The rework of DE made it initially extremely powerful, but isn't used that much now days for several reasons. Sword weaver and power chrono is considered one of the hardest and most finicky builds to play, but do see some use. They are not builds I would recommend to a new player unless I wanted them to leave the game. For a new player that want to play DPS (which this thread is not about), my general recommendation is mirage, DH, and DD. Mirage for condi bosses, DH for a handful of bosses, and DD for everything else.

    I'm sorry, you are mixing up two things here. My account for damage to raid bosses was still counter arguing your assumption that condition damage ranks higher than power. Current raid bosses which favor condition damage over power:

    • Matthias (heavily movement based and also favoring Mirage due to innate reflect and cc)
    • Cairn (again, very favorable to Mirage, otherwise power builds pull ahead over other condi builds)
    • Desmina (again a heavy movement based boss and epi as additional benefit, once again Mirage)
    • Dhuum with condi renegade as top dps(innate boon removal) or power builds right behind it
    • Twin Largos (yes, once again Mirage and once again movement and cc)

    Those are the ONLY raid bosses favoring condition damage. All other raid bosses favor power. Your assumption that condition damage outperforms power is neither represented in the benchmarks, nor on ANY raid boss which does not heavily favor a specific class or condition builds. Your view on power and condition damage is outdated and has been for a while. Only bosses which HEAVILY favor condition damage even use condi builds (and most often it's Mirage due to its mechanics) and on any other boss, power builds are right behind the top condi build.

    Yes, condition damage warrior is 1 of 2 classes where condition damage outperforms power (the other being renegade). I already agreed to this. That does not make the power build bad though, you are more than capable to run power warrior on some of the condi fights with no to serious detriments to the squad.

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭

    Go for condi first, it's more required.

  • Chris McSwag.4683Chris McSwag.4683 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    In december 6th 2017, developer Irenio CalmonHuang explained:
    Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    A lot of have written since then about how a ramping up condition damage make no sense if power can create the same dps without ramping up and with more utility. Thus we have seen a lot of nerf to power in practically every balance patch since that date.

    An experienced warrior should be going power for fractals in 90% of all cases.

    An experienced warrior will be playing with experienced players in 90% of all cases and thus clearing the boss with the speed that makes power out dps condition. The additional CC is nice but far from required in the less than perfect pugging when a new player start doing fractals. I will not assume that a new player instantly enters statics that clear every boss quickly when just starting out. The strong heal on condition warrior is also useful when starting out in fractals, allows for range, and have much better survivability when the group has no healer.

    Power is recommended on Deimos because of the modifier caused by the signet, meaning that the boss will phase so fast l(in a high dps group) that you barely gain any use out of conditions. You are correct in that condi benefits from longer fights(phases), but optimal raid comps are based on more than that, e.g. specific utility and what the fights look like with a skilled group.

    Condi is generally a better option for raids as it is meta on more encounters but will generally be accepted on bosses where power is better as well. The same can not be said about power.

    On the other hand, power is significantly better for fractals in almost any group due to breakbar damage, low toughness/hp mobs, scaling with potions and sigils and so on. If just starting out however, most groups will probably be ok with a condi warrior too.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    In december 6th 2017, developer Irenio CalmonHuang explained:
    Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    A lot of have written since then about how a ramping up condition damage make no sense if power can create the same dps without ramping up and with more utility. Thus we have seen a lot of nerf to power in practically every balance patch since that date.

    An experienced warrior should be going power for fractals in 90% of all cases.

    An experienced warrior will be playing with experienced players in 90% of all cases and thus clearing the boss with the speed that makes power out dps condition. The additional CC is nice but far from required in the less than perfect pugging when a new player start doing fractals. I will not assume that a new player instantly enters statics that clear every boss quickly when just starting out. The strong heal on condition warrior is also useful when starting out in fractals, allows for range, and have much better survivability when the group has no healer.

    Power is recommended on Deimos because of the modifier caused by the signet, meaning that the boss will phase so fast l(in a high dps group) that you barely gain any use out of conditions. You are correct in that condi benefits from longer fights(phases), but optimal raid comps are based on more than that, e.g. specific utility and what the fights look like with a skilled group.

    Condi is generally a better option for raids as it is meta on more encounters but will generally be accepted on bosses where power is better as well. The same can not be said about power.

    On the other hand, power is significantly better for fractals in almost any group due to breakbar damage, low toughness/hp mobs, scaling with potions and sigils and so on. If just starting out however, most groups will probably be ok with a condi warrior too.

    Where are you getting this, certainly not snowcrows or gw2raidar.

    Recommended dps per boss according to snowcrows, top dps according to gw2raidar:
    Boss - SnowCrows - GW2Raidar
    VG - Power - Power
    Gorseval - Power - Power
    Sabetha - Power - Power

    Sloth - Power - Power
    Matthias - Condi - Condi (with power being 1k-2k behind at 21k dps)

    KC - Power - Power
    Xera - Power - Power

    Cairn - Condi - Condi
    MO - Power - Power (with top dps being near equal, the next after are all power)
    Samarog - Power - Power
    Deimos - Power - Power

    SH - Condi - Condi
    Dhuum - Condi - Power (did not expect multiple power classes to beat out Renegade, seems the gw2raidar value for Renegade is very low)

    CA - Power - Power
    TL - Condi - Condi
    Qadim - Power - Condi (condi renegade is top dps, with the next few spots all power)

    Where are people getting this nonsense that condi damage is superior over longer fights versus power? It's certainly not reflected in the raid meta, nor in the recommended classes for raid boss, nor in the performance breakdown per boss and even less in the benchmarks. This is not 2017, condi damage is used on bosses which favor it heavily, otherwise you go power. The only exceptions here are Renegade and Warrior. Warrior specifically because his condi build outperforms the power build and has better range on it.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    In december 6th 2017, developer Irenio CalmonHuang explained:
    Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    A lot of have written since then about how a ramping up condition damage make no sense if power can create the same dps without ramping up and with more utility. Thus we have seen a lot of nerf to power in practically every balance patch since that date.

    An experienced warrior should be going power for fractals in 90% of all cases.

    An experienced warrior will be playing with experienced players in 90% of all cases and thus clearing the boss with the speed that makes power out dps condition. The additional CC is nice but far from required in the less than perfect pugging when a new player start doing fractals. I will not assume that a new player instantly enters statics that clear every boss quickly when just starting out. The strong heal on condition warrior is also useful when starting out in fractals, allows for range, and have much better survivability when the group has no healer.

    Power is recommended on Deimos because of the modifier caused by the signet, meaning that the boss will phase so fast l(in a high dps group) that you barely gain any use out of conditions. You are correct in that condi benefits from longer fights(phases), but optimal raid comps are based on more than that, e.g. specific utility and what the fights look like with a skilled group.

    Condi is generally a better option for raids as it is meta on more encounters but will generally be accepted on bosses where power is better as well. The same can not be said about power.

    On the other hand, power is significantly better for fractals in almost any group due to breakbar damage, low toughness/hp mobs, scaling with potions and sigils and so on. If just starting out however, most groups will probably be ok with a condi warrior too.

    Where are you getting this, certainly not snowcrows or gw2raidar.

    Recommended dps per boss according to snowcrows, top dps according to gw2raidar:
    Boss - SnowCrows - GW2Raidar
    VG - Power - Power
    Gorseval - Power - Power
    Sabetha - Power - Power

    Sloth - Power - Power
    Matthias - Condi - Condi (with power being 1k-2k behind at 21k dps)

    KC - Power - Power
    Xera - Power - Power

    Cairn - Condi - Condi
    MO - Power - Power (with top dps being near equal, the next after are all power)
    Samarog - Power - Power
    Deimos - Power - Power

    SH - Condi - Condi
    Dhuum - Condi - Power (did not expect multiple power classes to beat out Renegade, seems the gw2raidar value for Renegade is very low)

    CA - Power - Power
    TL - Condi - Condi
    Qadim - Power - Condi (condi renegade is top dps, with the next few spots all power)

    Where are people getting this nonsense that condi damage is superior over longer fights versus power? It's certainly not reflected in the raid meta, nor in the recommended classes for raid boss, nor in the performance breakdown per boss and even less in the benchmarks. This is not 2017, condi damage is used on bosses which favor it heavily, otherwise you go power. The only exceptions here are Renegade and Warrior. Warrior specifically because his condi build outperforms the power build and has better range on it.

    I want to remind you to reread the title and first post again.
    It is called Should I get condi or power BS warior first?

    @trignich.7523 said:
    Hello,
    I'm fairly new player and decided to play bannerslave warrior for raids and fractals. I've got a full set of ascended armor but can't decide wheather I should choose viper or berserker stats. I know the best option is to get both but getting second set of armor will take a while, so for now I'm stuck with only one.
    I like both playstyles of berserker and spellbreaker, though I'm not a fan of greatsword so power build without it would be appreciated.
    Which is overall better for most situations? Which is easier to get into raids and fractals with as a new player?

    This is first and foremost about a fairly new player warriors that want to play warrior.

    Overall if we want to pull this thread to be generically about DPS in raiding, you are passing over a major detail from both raidar and snowcrows.

    VG: 2m 8s

    If those are the clear times then go power and have a great time. VG has an enrage timer of 8m. If your group is closer to the enrage timer then the strategy suggested by benchmarks on snowcrows is less relevant, as is the impact from phasing time and the fact that VG clears its condition between each phase. A new player just getting into raiding will more likely have a clear time closer to the enrage timer than the 2 minutes which the top 1% get.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    In december 6th 2017, developer Irenio CalmonHuang explained:
    Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    A lot of have written since then about how a ramping up condition damage make no sense if power can create the same dps without ramping up and with more utility. Thus we have seen a lot of nerf to power in practically every balance patch since that date.

    An experienced warrior should be going power for fractals in 90% of all cases.

    An experienced warrior will be playing with experienced players in 90% of all cases and thus clearing the boss with the speed that makes power out dps condition. The additional CC is nice but far from required in the less than perfect pugging when a new player start doing fractals. I will not assume that a new player instantly enters statics that clear every boss quickly when just starting out. The strong heal on condition warrior is also useful when starting out in fractals, allows for range, and have much better survivability when the group has no healer.

    On the other hand, power is significantly better for fractals in almost any group due to breakbar damage, low toughness/hp mobs, scaling with potions and sigils and so on. If just starting out however, most groups will probably be ok with a condi warrior too.

    True. toughness and pots do change the dps. I still would recommend that when a new player are just getting into fractals they might want to start out ranging things before going melee. If they can find a static with a healer then the group can carry the new player while learning.

  • Chris McSwag.4683Chris McSwag.4683 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    In december 6th 2017, developer Irenio CalmonHuang explained:
    Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    A lot of have written since then about how a ramping up condition damage make no sense if power can create the same dps without ramping up and with more utility. Thus we have seen a lot of nerf to power in practically every balance patch since that date.

    An experienced warrior should be going power for fractals in 90% of all cases.

    An experienced warrior will be playing with experienced players in 90% of all cases and thus clearing the boss with the speed that makes power out dps condition. The additional CC is nice but far from required in the less than perfect pugging when a new player start doing fractals. I will not assume that a new player instantly enters statics that clear every boss quickly when just starting out. The strong heal on condition warrior is also useful when starting out in fractals, allows for range, and have much better survivability when the group has no healer.

    Power is recommended on Deimos because of the modifier caused by the signet, meaning that the boss will phase so fast l(in a high dps group) that you barely gain any use out of conditions. You are correct in that condi benefits from longer fights(phases), but optimal raid comps are based on more than that, e.g. specific utility and what the fights look like with a skilled group.

    Condi is generally a better option for raids as it is meta on more encounters but will generally be accepted on bosses where power is better as well. The same can not be said about power.

    On the other hand, power is significantly better for fractals in almost any group due to breakbar damage, low toughness/hp mobs, scaling with potions and sigils and so on. If just starting out however, most groups will probably be ok with a condi warrior too.

    Where are you getting this, certainly not snowcrows or gw2raidar.

    Recommended dps per boss according to snowcrows, top dps according to gw2raidar:
    Boss - SnowCrows - GW2Raidar
    VG - Power - Power
    Gorseval - Power - Power
    Sabetha - Power - Power

    Sloth - Power - Power
    Matthias - Condi - Condi (with power being 1k-2k behind at 21k dps)

    KC - Power - Power
    Xera - Power - Power

    Cairn - Condi - Condi
    MO - Power - Power (with top dps being near equal, the next after are all power)
    Samarog - Power - Power
    Deimos - Power - Power

    SH - Condi - Condi
    Dhuum - Condi - Power (did not expect multiple power classes to beat out Renegade, seems the gw2raidar value for Renegade is very low)

    CA - Power - Power
    TL - Condi - Condi
    Qadim - Power - Condi (condi renegade is top dps, with the next few spots all power)

    Where are people getting this nonsense that condi damage is superior over longer fights versus power? It's certainly not reflected in the raid meta, nor in the recommended classes for raid boss, nor in the performance breakdown per boss and even less in the benchmarks. This is not 2017, condi damage is used on bosses which favor it heavily, otherwise you go power. The only exceptions here are Renegade and Warrior. Warrior specifically because his condi build outperforms the power build and has better range on it.

    My advice is about warrior, as that is the purpose of the thread :). condi bs will be accepted on any boss while power won’t, and is also better on more bosses in a pug setting.

    Power: sloth, kc, samarog, ca, qadim
    Condi: vg, gorse, sab, Matthias, xera, cairn, mo, deimos, sh, dhuum, largos.

    Condi on deimos as the amount of groups that can make good use of power bs is probably less than 1%. The stuff I didn’t mention, as much as they may favour power, are just meme events where the pick of warrior barely matters at all. As for from where I’m getting stuff, I’m in the guild you keep referring to :)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    DO NOT GO POWER. I am capitalizing this part since many comments above talk about power as having a lot more use, but they miss the core design that Anet has made in the last few years which is not looking like they are moving away from any time soon.

    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between. With every patch for the last years we have seen this split being reinforced. Condition is thus a much safer option going forward as your first character into raiding, with lower risk of having to relearn and respect everything in future patches.

    This is so wrong on so many levels.....

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

    Looking at golem benchmarks alone is disconnecting from reality.

    Current benchmarks. Power beats condi in all regards. Please leave your incorrect advice at home. Warrior is literally the only class where condi beats power. Results in raids depend on mechanics, but your flat statement that condi is meant as highest damage over time is plain incorrect.

    Snowcrows has the list of power suitable bosses for warrior listed right there if you bothered to look: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/warrior/warrior/banner/

    9 out of 20, which sounds good until you see that one is escort, an second one is statues, and a third one is river. You can throw in spirit run, twisted castle and trio if you like, which make conditions the majority of "raid encounters", but it does make power warrior look any better.

    In practice condi is used in 6 out of the 17 raid boss encounters. For the remaining 6, lets look at the advice on Deimos from Snowcrows: "The gap between Power Banner Warrior and Condition Banner Berserker grows as your squad DPS increases. Higher squad DPS pushes Power Banner Warrior to outperform Condition Banner Berserker on this fight.".

    Now think for a second. Why is it that only with higher squad DPS does power banner warrior create higher dps than condition banner? Power is better than condition, right? Could it be that when the fight is shorter that power is better and for longer fights condition is better, as designed by anet?

    In december 6th 2017, developer Irenio CalmonHuang explained:
    Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    A lot of have written since then about how a ramping up condition damage make no sense if power can create the same dps without ramping up and with more utility. Thus we have seen a lot of nerf to power in practically every balance patch since that date.

    An experienced warrior should be going power for fractals in 90% of all cases.

    An experienced warrior will be playing with experienced players in 90% of all cases and thus clearing the boss with the speed that makes power out dps condition. The additional CC is nice but far from required in the less than perfect pugging when a new player start doing fractals. I will not assume that a new player instantly enters statics that clear every boss quickly when just starting out. The strong heal on condition warrior is also useful when starting out in fractals, allows for range, and have much better survivability when the group has no healer.

    Power is recommended on Deimos because of the modifier caused by the signet, meaning that the boss will phase so fast l(in a high dps group) that you barely gain any use out of conditions. You are correct in that condi benefits from longer fights(phases), but optimal raid comps are based on more than that, e.g. specific utility and what the fights look like with a skilled group.

    Condi is generally a better option for raids as it is meta on more encounters but will generally be accepted on bosses where power is better as well. The same can not be said about power.

    On the other hand, power is significantly better for fractals in almost any group due to breakbar damage, low toughness/hp mobs, scaling with potions and sigils and so on. If just starting out however, most groups will probably be ok with a condi warrior too.

    Where are you getting this, certainly not snowcrows or gw2raidar.

    Recommended dps per boss according to snowcrows, top dps according to gw2raidar:
    Boss - SnowCrows - GW2Raidar
    VG - Power - Power
    Gorseval - Power - Power
    Sabetha - Power - Power

    Sloth - Power - Power
    Matthias - Condi - Condi (with power being 1k-2k behind at 21k dps)

    KC - Power - Power
    Xera - Power - Power

    Cairn - Condi - Condi
    MO - Power - Power (with top dps being near equal, the next after are all power)
    Samarog - Power - Power
    Deimos - Power - Power

    SH - Condi - Condi
    Dhuum - Condi - Power (did not expect multiple power classes to beat out Renegade, seems the gw2raidar value for Renegade is very low)

    CA - Power - Power
    TL - Condi - Condi
    Qadim - Power - Condi (condi renegade is top dps, with the next few spots all power)

    Where are people getting this nonsense that condi damage is superior over longer fights versus power? It's certainly not reflected in the raid meta, nor in the recommended classes for raid boss, nor in the performance breakdown per boss and even less in the benchmarks. This is not 2017, condi damage is used on bosses which favor it heavily, otherwise you go power. The only exceptions here are Renegade and Warrior. Warrior specifically because his condi build outperforms the power build and has better range on it.

    I want to remind you to reread the title and first post again.
    It is called Should I get condi or power BS warior first?

    and I will repeat for the third and final time, yes I have addressed warrior specifically and how it pertains to condi and power. Your assumption on condition damage for raids in general:

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    Condition damage is designed to have the highest damage in the game in long encounters. Power is only used as an exception where the boss has short damage phase with a lot of CC phases in between.

    is what I do not agree with, because it is not true.

    @trignich.7523 said:
    Hello,
    I'm fairly new player and decided to play bannerslave warrior for raids and fractals. I've got a full set of ascended armor but can't decide wheather I should choose viper or berserker stats. I know the best option is to get both but getting second set of armor will take a while, so for now I'm stuck with only one.
    I like both playstyles of berserker and spellbreaker, though I'm not a fan of greatsword so power build without it would be appreciated.
    Which is overall better for most situations? Which is easier to get into raids and fractals with as a new player?

    This is first and foremost about a fairly new player warriors that want to play warrior.

    Overall if we want to pull this thread to be generically about DPS in raiding, you are passing over a major detail from both raidar and snowcrows.

    VG: 2m 8s

    If those are the clear times then go power and have a great time. VG has an enrage timer of 8m. If your group is closer to the enrage timer then the strategy suggested by benchmarks on snowcrows is less relevant, as is the impact from phasing time and the fact that VG clears its condition between each phase. A new player just getting into raiding will more likely have a clear time closer to the enrage timer than the 2 minutes which the top 1% get.

    Yes, this would be true if the disparity between power and condi did not continue into the lower skill brackets on gw2raidar (in favor of power). This is not a clear time issue. It's a balance issue and condition damage overall does NOT provide more total damage than power. It hasn't in a while and the fact that some of the strongest power builds are insanely easy to get played certainly does not help this.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    In my experience as an everyday T4 PUG and with a sort of static raid group that chopsueys wing clears a week, Power for FOTMs and Samarog boss(for break bars), condition rest.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • -For normal fractals and most raids, the condi is the best
    -For cm fractals the best thing is power, since in some parts it asks you to burst in a small amount of time
    -Raids where the power over the condi is better: KC, Samarog (although the condi works, this boss is based more on mechanics and cc), statues (although if you are the one who throws orbs in the eyes of Grent and the orb) collecter in Eater of Souls no problem), CA, Qadim is 50% -50%, you will play the role of breaking the lamp but it has little life so the power is not so necessary, you should contribute to the cc in the mini heads and finally, if there is someone who removes blessings in the pyre assigned to you, you can use condi, if they ask you to take away the blessings, the best would be power spb

    (all speaking from my experience, and to date I have not received any complaints)

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2019

    @vaxjani.9073 said:
    I would pick power warrior definitely. You need ascended for fractals and power warrior is superior to condi there. It still does good damage in raids, but need some different equipment (changing some zerk items to assassins, changing impact sigil to accuracy to reach 100% crit chance) there because in fractals u get extra precision from potions.
    You wont have to worry about might stacking that Zerf said, its the druid's job, not yours. I always use Axe/Axe + Mace/Mace (Mace/Shield where the breakbar comes back faster) in fractals and raids. I would only consider playing Greatsword instead of Mace/X if you dont have to CC at all in the fight. Its only a small DPS increase to have it as 2nd weapon set and i would say just forget GS altogether, its better to just camp A/A for dmg.
    As a power warrior you will play Core everywhere, except in fractals where you have to change to Spellbreaker sometimes if the fractal or instability needs the boonrip (tho u can stay Core if the chrono handles the boonrips).
    I advise you level up your crafting (armorsmithing in your case to 400) and craft exotic viper's gear for condi. That way you can change between power and condi warrior easily for raids and you already have ascended gear for the pWar for fractals.

    I'll add to this, though I don't play my BS Warrior very much, so my experience is a bit limited.

    I run GS Mace/Axe in Fractals because I really like the mobility you get from GS, and the Mace really helps with CC. Axe 1-3 are the weakest of its abilities, as Axe 4 and 5 are the real powerhouses. Sadly Mace is such a terrible feeling weapon to use, it almost hurts to swap to it, but I'm fairly sure GS does more damage than Mace/Mace (could be wrong though), and I don't like the idea of running without any CC, relying on others for it.

  • zoomborg.9462zoomborg.9462 Member ✭✭✭

    Experienced groups that run cm's and t4 will never take a condi warrior.
    First, atm power war brings a ton of cc which is extremely important for avoiding unnecessary damage and bursting down bosses. Meanwhile axe/axe provides very good burst as well as decent sustained dps, especially for short fights axe/axe will always pull ahead of condi war.
    Second, the burst with a good group is so high that condi warrior will not even have time to do any serious dps b4 adds die or boss phases. The changes in fractals over the years ( less condi stacks with higher duration, nerfing enemy toughness and increasing vitality, breakbars) have made sure that power is and will always be king in this content.

    As for raids.... its 50/50 there. On some fights that require very heavy cc like samarog or sloth, not taking power can lead to sloppy plays or even wipes due to lack of cc.

    On other bosses u can just go condi and focus on dps.

    I'd suggest going power first for fractals. U could also play power on raids until u can get that viper gear, its lower dps but u can clear bosses just fine.
    However only being able to play condi warrior will automatically lock you out from experienced fractal groups which is a no-no for me.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Go condi first because almost every good cm fractal group will also take a condi war. Only if you belong to the 0.01% of the groups you will be excluded from fractal cm. Worth to notice is that even if you are playing a kind of support you'll be doing more damage than most of the usual fractal players anyways as condi war. The amount of decent to excellent players in T4 is so small that you'll only meet them in special groups (like cm teams). For usual T4s you'll be able to be the baws very often.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • zencow.3651zencow.3651 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2019

    @zoomborg.9462 said:
    Experienced groups that run cm's and t4 will never take a condi warrior.
    First, atm power war brings a ton of cc which is extremely important for avoiding unnecessary damage and bursting down bosses. Meanwhile axe/axe provides very good burst as well as decent sustained dps, especially for short fights axe/axe will always pull ahead of condi war.
    Second, the burst with a good group is so high that condi warrior will not even have time to do any serious dps b4 adds die or boss phases. The changes in fractals over the years ( less condi stacks with higher duration, nerfing enemy toughness and increasing vitality, breakbars) have made sure that power is and will always be king in this content.

    As for raids.... its 50/50 there. On some fights that require very heavy cc like samarog or sloth, not taking power can lead to sloppy plays or even wipes due to lack of cc.

    On other bosses u can just go condi and focus on dps.

    I'd suggest going power first for fractals. U could also play power on raids until u can get that viper gear, its lower dps but u can clear bosses just fine.
    However only being able to play condi warrior will automatically lock you out from experienced fractal groups which is a no-no for me.

    This.

    Also for fractals in addition to the importance of CCing blue bars for more +50% damage moments, No Pain No Gain is likely to be seen at least once a day so having access to boon strip to ensure bosses don't have protection up (-33% damage!) without having to switch builds specifically for the fractal will be a lot more convenient for you.