A plea from the community - it's not too late to renege on mounts in WvW — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A plea from the community - it's not too late to renege on mounts in WvW

ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 19, 2019 in WvW

Hear me out. Mounts will severely disrupt the balance of mobility in WvW. They will completely change the capture/defense game speed. They will cause drastically increased lag and fps issues in a game mode already plagued by them. They were dreaded being implemented by the community and many feel betrayed by the announcement.

It's not too late to put the community's wishes first and simply make the Warclaw a 2000 gem Jackal skin instead to save some investment funds.

It's not too late to renege on mounts in WvW.

<1

Comments

  • StrawHat.2639StrawHat.2639 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    And if a large portion of players want mounts in WvW? Is that not also listening to the wishes of the community?

    Don't know about large portion but taking my havok guild (5-15) as an example, we raid Friday-Sunday officially with me and weeks they do their own thing so literally 7day/WvW guild and none of them want mounts unless exclusive to the desert bl...I extrapolate that over all wvw committed guilds and that's probably a big fat 10% max...pulling numbers out of my cheese.

    Sanji
    Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW

    Anet dragon has finally defeated the
    **WvW WarBorn **
    He's over 7000!
    Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging

  • Don't try it with logic. Most here seem to be allergic to it.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • you wvwers elitist are never happy. You bored us with your request about wvw updates, and now that you have one still complain. Get your mount and no more wvw update content for the next 2 years!!

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:
    HAHAHA Time to quit.

    Yeah and sadly there will still be people resistant to change despite having all quit from gliding and mounts.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • @OP By the time they announced it, it was too late. Once announced they certainly are not going to refrain from implementing this change. Historically there has been a huge cry out when Anet was even slightly perceived as having promised something and then not followed through. Whether or not individuals posting on the forums are happy with the idea, this announcement is a lot more promise than some of the things members on the forums have tried calling Anet to task over. It doesn't matter how vocal this group is, we are going to see the Warclaw in WvW in a week.

    Personally I too was one of those opposed to having mounts added to GW2. I have no use for other MMOs and little interest in seeing features from other MMOs bleed over into GW2. That said, I think that Anet's actual implementation of mounts won me over, despite my personal antagonism against them. So I am more optimistic that this may end up working out ok.

    There will probably be the usual pains that happen when the status quo is upset, but future balance patches can also be ways to rein in the Warclaw if it starts off too out of paw.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ni In.6578 said:
    @Gaile Gray.6029 don't be afraid to save face. It's OK for a company to do. Maxis did it by refunding Sim City sales. Bethesda (despite ongoing issues) has apologized about the state of Fallout online. And there are more examples in the games industry if you hunt for them.

    It's OK to apologize. Everyone has been there, we all understand it and ultimately people are grateful for apologies when they truly mean it.

    https://www.wpr.org/new-study-reveals-importance-apologizing

    Or. You know. They could release the darn update, and then see if they need to say sorry or not.

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Hear me out. Mounts will severely disrupt the balance of mobility in WvW. They will completely change the capture/defense game speed. They will cause drastically increased lag and fps issues in a game mode already plagued by them. They were dreaded being implemented by the community and many feel betrayed by the announcement.

    It's not too late to put the community's wishes first and simply make the Warclaw a 2000 gem Jackal skin instead to save some investment funds.

    It's not too late to renege on mounts in WvW.

    Why do you feel this way? And, do you realize its comments like this that are actually making the game more stale?

    Change is good. The game mode hasn't changed much in a very long time - and its time to shake things up. This has potential to completely alter every WvW commander's strategy in WvW (as you pointed out) - while that might SEEM annoying to you as someone that just wants the same thing day in and day out, for many of us it gets old fast.

    I welcome this change. Its time to mess with the veterans a bit, let them cry and whine because they have to learn something new, and then get over it while they eventually learn to have fun.

  • Bring on the mounts! It will be good for WvW!

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Can you guys just wait a literal couple of days for Anet to at least attempt to justify this decision?

    By all means complain away afterwards about everything you don't like but at least give them a chance to say why they thought this was a good idea.
    I can understand those with concerns having concerns but outright calling for a feature you know absolutely nothing about to be removed before Anet even has a chance to justify it's existence is pretty extreme..

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RubberDougie.2750 said:

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    And if a large portion of players want mounts in WvW? Is that not also listening to the wishes of the community?

    Lol. Maybe a large portion of those who go there 2h a week to mess around and don't actually do anything constructive.

    They are still a part whatever their playtime is, it's like if you play many hours you are more entitled than a random player who plays one hour/day.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • It depends on the way they implement the mount, but why not let the playerbase test it out first?

    For the longest time, Edge of the Mists has been deserted because of the lack of rewards. Maybe reintroduce rewards to EotM, while implementing the mount to that map only? If the playerbase still ends up hating it after the testing, you could repurpose it to be a PvE mount to ensure that the work done on it wasn't in vain.

    I do have a horse in this race - being a roaming dash Daredevil, I dislike the idea of a mounted blob being able to intercept an individual whose build was built around mobility. This change would effectively kill profession and build identity in WvW - why choose between things when you can pick the best, while receiving mobility for free? Please think this through.

  • @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    Just keep in mind that there are a lot of players in WvW that are not vocal on the Forums. You cannot assume that their wishes are the same as yours or your guildmates/friends.

    I really love how every time Anet does something like this and the people who have been playing this from day one express their objections in multiple posts that there is always a very un-vocal majority of people that love these changes but never seem compelled to say so. They just exist. Out there. In the ether. Without fail, they are there simply staying silent in the face of a minority of people that just happen to speak louder? Yeah, sorry, just doesn't hold water. What I do see if countless long time WvW players, some of which held on even after they took away home servers and anything resembling server pride trying desperately to be heard and now, after discussions and feedback are getting the one thing that was never requested. And there is outrage.

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • Zalani.9827Zalani.9827 Member ✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Can you guys just wait a literal couple of days for Anet to at least attempt to justify this decision?

    By all means complain away afterwards about everything you don't like but at least give them a chance to say why they thought this was a good idea.
    I can understand those with concerns having concerns but outright calling for a feature you know absolutely nothing about to be removed before Anet even has a chance to justify it's existence is pretty extreme..

    Basically how I feel, at least try it out first before turning the forums into a salt mine.

    Jadis Narnia, Sylvari Ranger of [VoS]

    Praise Joko!

  • @Teratus.2859 said:
    Can you guys just wait a literal couple of days for Anet to at least attempt to justify this decision?

    By all means complain away afterwards about everything you don't like but at least give them a chance to say why they thought this was a good idea.
    I can understand those with concerns having concerns but outright calling for a feature you know absolutely nothing about to be removed before Anet even has a chance to justify it's existence is pretty extreme..

    Because we have literally seen this play out before. This isn't the first time and it won't be the last. Unfortunately it will be pushed out into the game and it will adversely affect the game play for WvW and then it'll either be nerfed into the ground or buffed to absurd degrees to promote its use. In either case between launch and patching there will definitely be at least one if not two skins for the mount introduced into the gem store because i cam promise you those have already been designed.

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    How about we save the doom until after we see the impact of the change?

    I suspect there are going to be a lot of new bags... errr.... players in WvW over the next few weeks trying to unlock that mount. That is a very good thing but I could be wrong.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It is too late.
    It's here to stay.
    You will learn to love it.
    Because you don't have a choice.
    Other than quitting, which you won't do.
    Because you want to see how this potential train wreck ends.
    Get path of fire, enjoy your mount, and new skins every other week after.
    Also, start playing pve, to enjoy the money you gave to Anet, to support the other game modes.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @PookieDaWombat.6209 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Can you guys just wait a literal couple of days for Anet to at least attempt to justify this decision?

    By all means complain away afterwards about everything you don't like but at least give them a chance to say why they thought this was a good idea.
    I can understand those with concerns having concerns but outright calling for a feature you know absolutely nothing about to be removed before Anet even has a chance to justify it's existence is pretty extreme..

    Because we have literally seen this play out before. This isn't the first time and it won't be the last. Unfortunately it will be pushed out into the game and it will adversely affect the game play for WvW and then it'll either be nerfed into the ground or buffed to absurd degrees to promote its use. In either case between launch and patching there will definitely be at least one if not two skins for the mount introduced into the gem store because i cam promise you those have already been designed.

    Oh no doubt they will capitalize on skins.. we all knew that was going to happen the second they announced mounts were coming to Gw2 lol
    Skins are just skins though.

    What i'm interested in purely from a WvW perspective is how the mount will function in WvW.
    All we've seen is that it can attack gates, dash jump and has some kind of pounce/engage attack..
    We don't know how those mechanics actually work yet and I doubt a mount designed specifically for WvW use will share the same base function as those designed for PvE.

    For all we know we may need 10-20 players mount grappling a gate before we even notice the damage being dealt.. and the pounce might just imobalize a player for a second and do no damage at all... you may not even have much HP while mounted and a good single hit could dismount you.. we just don't know yet.

    As for the mobility factor.. I think it evens out the gap that already exists between the professions.. and gives everyone an equal chance at escape.
    god knows how many times I've been ambushed by a mesmer or thief etc and known from the second the first hit lands that there is absolutely no way I can get away because those classes have so much mobility to chase everything down they might as well be regarded as cheap exploit classes entirely.

    WvW is supposed to be the place to have epic large scale battles.. not a giant pvp map for 1v1 or small group skirmishes.. that's what pvp is for.. and it's because those epic large scale battles don't really exist in WvW that's why many don't enjoy WvW in the first place.

  • @Teratus.2859 said:

    @PookieDaWombat.6209 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Can you guys just wait a literal couple of days for Anet to at least attempt to justify this decision?

    By all means complain away afterwards about everything you don't like but at least give them a chance to say why they thought this was a good idea.
    I can understand those with concerns having concerns but outright calling for a feature you know absolutely nothing about to be removed before Anet even has a chance to justify it's existence is pretty extreme..

    Because we have literally seen this play out before. This isn't the first time and it won't be the last. Unfortunately it will be pushed out into the game and it will adversely affect the game play for WvW and then it'll either be nerfed into the ground or buffed to absurd degrees to promote its use. In either case between launch and patching there will definitely be at least one if not two skins for the mount introduced into the gem store because i cam promise you those have already been designed.

    Oh no doubt they will capitalize on skins.. we all knew that was going to happen the second they announced mounts were coming to Gw2 lol
    Skins are just skins though.

    What i'm interested in purely from a WvW perspective is how the mount will function in WvW.
    All we've seen is that it can attack gates, dash jump and has some kind of pounce/engage attack..
    We don't know how those mechanics actually work yet and I doubt a mount designed specifically for WvW use will share the same base function as those designed for PvE.

    For all we know we may need 10-20 players mount grappling a gate before we even notice the damage being dealt.. and the pounce might just imobalize a player for a second and do no damage at all... you may not even have much HP while mounted and a good single hit could dismount you.. we just don't know yet.

    As for the mobility factor.. I think it evens out the gap that already exists between the professions.. and gives everyone an equal chance at escape.
    god knows how many times I've been ambushed by a mesmer or thief etc and known from the second the first hit lands that there is absolutely no way I can get away because those classes have so much mobility to chase everything down they might as well be regarded as cheap exploit classes entirely.

    WvW is supposed to be the place to have epic large scale battles.. not a giant pvp map for 1v1 or small group skirmishes.. that's what pvp is for.. and it's because those epic large scale battles don't really exist in WvW that's why many don't enjoy WvW in the first place.

    If the mount folds under the pressure of a small breeze then its a pointless distraction, so its going to have to be robust. If it is too strong at replacing siege then they have invalidated it, but if its too weak compared to it then once again it makes the mount vestigial. It should maybe be as strong as a base battering ram and therefore a boon in case you don't have supplies, but it shouldn't be stronger than that and no more that two can be used on a gate. The engage skill is problematic however you slice it when combined with its mobility and will only increase the roflstomping nature of roaming in WvW. In short, either it will be too strong and throw off WvW play entirely or it will be too weak and be nothing more than a vanity item.

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Once more I am proud not to consider myself a member of the wvw community anymore if this is how it presents itself.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    Because you want to see how this potential train wreck ends.

    Yep

    BG

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    we still dont know how theres things will work, for all we know they wont enable while in combat, do we need to cap bloodlust on the maps? will it even need supplys to mount up ?

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @PookieDaWombat.6209 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @PookieDaWombat.6209 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Can you guys just wait a literal couple of days for Anet to at least attempt to justify this decision?

    By all means complain away afterwards about everything you don't like but at least give them a chance to say why they thought this was a good idea.
    I can understand those with concerns having concerns but outright calling for a feature you know absolutely nothing about to be removed before Anet even has a chance to justify it's existence is pretty extreme..

    Because we have literally seen this play out before. This isn't the first time and it won't be the last. Unfortunately it will be pushed out into the game and it will adversely affect the game play for WvW and then it'll either be nerfed into the ground or buffed to absurd degrees to promote its use. In either case between launch and patching there will definitely be at least one if not two skins for the mount introduced into the gem store because i cam promise you those have already been designed.

    Oh no doubt they will capitalize on skins.. we all knew that was going to happen the second they announced mounts were coming to Gw2 lol
    Skins are just skins though.

    What i'm interested in purely from a WvW perspective is how the mount will function in WvW.
    All we've seen is that it can attack gates, dash jump and has some kind of pounce/engage attack..
    We don't know how those mechanics actually work yet and I doubt a mount designed specifically for WvW use will share the same base function as those designed for PvE.

    For all we know we may need 10-20 players mount grappling a gate before we even notice the damage being dealt.. and the pounce might just imobalize a player for a second and do no damage at all... you may not even have much HP while mounted and a good single hit could dismount you.. we just don't know yet.

    As for the mobility factor.. I think it evens out the gap that already exists between the professions.. and gives everyone an equal chance at escape.
    god knows how many times I've been ambushed by a mesmer or thief etc and known from the second the first hit lands that there is absolutely no way I can get away because those classes have so much mobility to chase everything down they might as well be regarded as cheap exploit classes entirely.

    WvW is supposed to be the place to have epic large scale battles.. not a giant pvp map for 1v1 or small group skirmishes.. that's what pvp is for.. and it's because those epic large scale battles don't really exist in WvW that's why many don't enjoy WvW in the first place.

    If the mount folds under the pressure of a small breeze then its a pointless distraction, so its going to have to be robust. If it is too strong at replacing siege then they have invalidated it, but if its too weak compared to it then once again it makes the mount vestigial. It should maybe be as strong as a base battering ram and therefore a boon in case you don't have supplies, but it shouldn't be stronger than that and no more that two can be used on a gate. The engage skill is problematic however you slice it when combined with its mobility and will only increase the roflstomping nature of roaming in WvW. In short, either it will be too strong and throw off WvW play entirely or it will be too weak and be nothing more than a vanity item.

    Those are fair concerns although I dont think they will invalidate anything.

    How I see them working is in tandum with seige.. give them the power of a default ram yes but unlike the ram it's going to be a lot easier for defenders to dismount players (locking them in combat so they can't remount) than it is for them to destroy the Rams.. and considering the mount will likely be limited by range too it wont be hard for range defenders to target and dismount attacking gate breakers.

    I don't think these mounts will be that tanky either.. probably about the same as any other mount.. maybe a little more but certainly not enough to break the game.
    It'll likely still be easy for a solo player to dismount another considering players do way more dmg than wildlife.. but we'll just have to wait for the livestream to get those kinds of details.. everything we say about the mounts abilities at this point is just pure speculation tbh.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    With the hot garbage inconceivable mess that balance is across all pvp modes in this game who cares? Is mounts being added to wvw really gonna make things so much worse?

  • @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Hear me out. Mounts will severely disrupt the balance of mobility in WvW. They will completely change the capture/defense game speed. They will cause drastically increased lag and fps issues in a game mode already plagued by them. They were dreaded being implemented by the community and many feel betrayed by the announcement.

    It's not too late to put the community's wishes first and simply make the Warclaw a 2000 gem Jackal skin instead to save some investment funds.

    It's not too late to renege on mounts in WvW.

    Firstly, we don’t know what the mount speed will be and whether this Beast will even have movement skills.

    Secondly, the mount will introduce more balance for mobility as all classes may potentially at least have Swiftness speed levels baseline even when roaming. This is not a problem, unless having all classes balanced with an equal baseline OOC land speed is not “balance.”

    I am really glad for any and all additions to this game mode. Anything that needs to be nerfed or buffed with regards to this mount will hopefully have a prompt schedule in place (1 week hotfix, one month balance, 3 month revamp, etc).

  • On what base do you claim to speak for the community? I sure as hell am very interested how mounts change wvw. Have you, for example, even thought of how a mount leap is able to give a squad enough engage power to break the pirate ship meta? How the pull can speed up sieges? How a dismount daze can give roamers enough time to blow you up nonetheless. How the wvw mount release in general finally puts wvw back in the spotlight for a moment? I am guessing you didn't.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ni In.6578 said:

    gliding to and its not that big of deal.

    Was it? The implementation was poor. Remember where OW used to be? Or how NET currently is for defenders? Or where you can just bail off any ole cliff as a defender to escape being killed?

    Gliding was not and is not beneficial to the game mode.

    I haven't played since they introduced Gliders to be honest...

    I'm a roamer and having people just glide away all the time or camp cliffs ready to glide away was just annoying... Roaming was, moa, moa moa moa, flat land, avoid the zerg, another moa, flip a sentry, run some more run some more FINALLY A FIGHT no wait he glided away, keep running, flip another sentry...

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • Megs.9032Megs.9032 Member
    edited February 20, 2019

    @michaeldowling.4652 said:
    Change is good. The game mode hasn't changed much in a very long time - and its time to shake things up. This has potential to completely alter every WvW commander's strategy in WvW (as you pointed out) - while that might SEEM annoying to you as someone that just wants the same thing day in and day out, for many of us it gets old fast.

    I welcome this change. Its time to mess with the veterans a bit, let them cry and whine because they have to learn something new, and then get over it while they eventually learn to have fun.

    Not all change is good change. Yes, PPTing and Ktraining towers does get old fast, however winning fights and destroying other server's KDR never gets old. If it gets old, find a game-mode to you that doesn't get old, however don't come to something you dislike and try to change it in to something you do like. Veterans don't mind learning new things, however they do dislike having to learn broken things. They dislike having to accommodate for bad decision making when they've been asking for specific updates for quite a while. GW2 keeps it's WvW player base not because it is great, it keeps it's player base because it is the only game which does RvR in this style with this good of a combat system.
    I sincerely hope the current Anet devs can go back to the roots of the game, the roots that are the anchor as for why the game did so well to begin with. I agree that some change is good. Well thought out change where they've listened to feedback from the community that plays the game the most is good change. This change however, this change is coming from the vocal minority of WvWers who get bored quick and need something shiny to make it fun again.
    In my opinion, mounts wouldn't be terrible if they were simply used as movement tactics or could only be used in land you own. I hope the skills aren't overpowered and especially that they don't incorporate CCs. We will just have to wait and see though, as I sincerely hope the combat mechanics will not be affected.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Hear me out. Mounts will severely disrupt the balance of mobility in WvW. They will completely change the capture/defense game speed. They will cause drastically increased lag and fps issues in a game mode already plagued by them. They were dreaded being implemented by the community and many feel betrayed by the announcement.

    Hypothetically, what if the mount (in wvw) worked like this:

    • 5-7k HP, if depleted while mounted, player is knocked down for 2 seconds.
    • Movement speed of the mount is capped at 400 units per second (player movement speed when out of combat + swiftness)
    • Has an engage attack that does very minor siege damage and minor power damage (3-4k damage) not influenced by stats, cannot crit, no CC, boons or condis attached, 20s cooldown.
    • Cannot dodge while mounted. Can only dismount or use the engaging attack.
    • Is affected by CC and conditions unlike mounts in pve (but the pve version of this mount will of course function like other pve mounts).

    Hypothetically, if the mount worked like that, I think it would add value to the game mode! It would be a mount that helps slower members of a zerg keep up, and would be something focused on engaging the mechanics of wvw (siege and defences) rather than something used to gain a cheap advantage in combat or to 100% escape larger groups of players without fail.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    why does one person always think they speak for every one?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    mounts are in my favor so, they have to stay. =p

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    Love the mount. Keep it. No Re-Negging.

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭

    Sorry, but no matter if I'm on my Mirage or on my Spellbreaker, I like the mount. I like the mount (mostly) as it is. The increased mobility for all is good for the game mode overall IMO. All that's missing is a mount-rental system for those players in WvW, who don't have access to the mount yet. Please bring that rental system, so newbies don't lag behind.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • Mounts are great way for squad based builds that don't have much access to movement speed or 1v1 capability to catch up to the commander. Before mounts it's not fun to be ganked by random people on your way to the main zerg with basically no chance to evade or winning and have to make the run again or wait until commander waypoints. Mounts are a great QOL improvement in wvw.

  • I really enjoy my Warclaw. As a newly returned player I did feel the difference with not having a mount. But having no clue about anything it took me a weekend to get it and I was really pleased.

    I feel like this is a difference between the haves and have nots. Considering how short the window is, I’m not fussed and I think it is a massive quality of life improvement.

  • Terminal.5093Terminal.5093 Member ✭✭

    4 month old necro post.. time to lock?

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