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@Shikaru.7618 said:

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

More like beat content with 5 bunkers that eventually outlast everything while happily facetank everything

Adequate & clever strategy if you can't play such a T4 fractal - which is non-cm - properly anymore with builds that still work for all the other fracs. I still call the gazillion mob phase a horrible design.

When I made thread about how sirens c@nc$r it was deleted :(There was on screen about 25-30 mobs and entire screen covered in aoe's . I dont have problem with any fractal but this is exceptional bs. Imagine 30 mobs explode with WE BREED FIRE and OUTFLANKED which was instabilities on that time

If there are 30 mobs on screen you're doing the boss mechanic wrong. Stop tunneling on the boss and clear out the adds. The boss spawns adds as it drops lower in hp. This fight is an exercise in self control in not just dps racing the boss. Has been pretty easy in all of my pugs when I convinced the group to not tunnel vision.

We still raced it down fyi ;)

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@Odik.4587 said:

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

More like beat content with 5 bunkers that eventually outlast everything while happily facetank everything

Adequate & clever strategy if you can't play such a T4 fractal - which is non-cm - properly anymore with builds that still work for all the other fracs. I still call the gazillion mob phase a horrible design.

When I made thread about how sirens c@nc$r it was deleted :(There was on screen about 25-30 mobs and entire screen covered in aoe's . I dont have problem with any fractal but this is exceptional bs. Imagine 30 mobs explode with WE BREED FIRE and OUTFLANKED which was instabilities on that time

If there are 30 mobs on screen you're doing the boss mechanic wrong. Stop tunneling on the boss and clear out the adds. The boss spawns adds as it drops lower in hp. This fight is an exercise in self control in not just dps racing the boss. Has been pretty easy in all of my pugs when I convinced the group to not tunnel vision.

We still raced it down fyi ;)

Your choice to do so. You're complaining because you succeeded using an alternative tactic? When you race the boss down you're opting into the experience that you describe as toxic. That's an option you can choose to avoid the pile up of all of the adds and aoes with different tactics.

2 paths ahead, one is a cliff that you rock climb up and one is a winding trail that takes longer but with guard rails and gradual slope. You're freely choosing to climb up the cliff then complain about how steep and unsafe it is. No sympathy here really.

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@Shikaru.7618 said:

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

More like beat content with 5 bunkers that eventually outlast everything while happily facetank everything

Adequate & clever strategy if you can't play such a T4 fractal - which is non-cm - properly anymore with builds that still work for all the other fracs. I still call the gazillion mob phase a horrible design.

When I made thread about how sirens c@nc$r it was deleted :(There was on screen about 25-30 mobs and entire screen covered in aoe's . I dont have problem with any fractal but this is exceptional bs. Imagine 30 mobs explode with WE BREED FIRE and OUTFLANKED which was instabilities on that time

If there are 30 mobs on screen you're doing the boss mechanic wrong. Stop tunneling on the boss and clear out the adds. The boss spawns adds as it drops lower in hp. This fight is an exercise in self control in not just dps racing the boss. Has been pretty easy in all of my pugs when I convinced the group to not tunnel vision.

We still raced it down fyi ;)

Your choice to do so. You're complaining because you succeeded using an alternative tactic? When you race the boss down you're opting into the experience that you describe as toxic. That's an option you can choose to avoid the pile up of all of the adds and aoes with different tactics.

2 paths ahead, one is a cliff that you rock climb up and one is a winding trail that takes longer but with guard rails and gradual slope. You're freely choosing to climb up the cliff then complain about how steep and unsafe it is. No sympathy here really.

I complaint about it because its literally incarnation of c@nc$r? Tons of unnecessary mechanics ? No CC breakbar on boss? AOE spamfest that also include unblockable daze slam? Should I care for your sympathy ? FYI there was we breed fire that if you touch anything entire screen explode even with MORE aoe and outflanked, turning back to boss to get oneshotted by anything is really smart choice(and my party cba to kill mobs ,not like I can force 4 ppl to do it)

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@Odik.4587 said:

Three Scourges means:Perma Corrosive Poison Cloud.A ton of condi cleanse from Nefarious Favor.A perma barrier from Sand Cascade.Conditions spammed here and there from (at least) one Epidemic.

And so on.

If people refuse to change builds, it's been ok (happened to me days ago and I switched to Guard with Shield and Wall of Reflection), don't blame the game.

Yes, Birds is a problem but, if we merely talk about professions, you have a team to win.

Have fun and good luck.

More like beat content with 5 bunkers that eventually outlast everything while happily facetank everything

Adequate & clever strategy if you can't play such a T4 fractal - which is non-cm - properly anymore with builds that still work for all the other fracs. I still call the gazillion mob phase a horrible design.

When I made thread about how sirens c@nc$r it was deleted :(There was on screen about 25-30 mobs and entire screen covered in aoe's . I dont have problem with any fractal but this is exceptional bs. Imagine 30 mobs explode with WE BREED FIRE and OUTFLANKED which was instabilities on that time

If there are 30 mobs on screen you're doing the boss mechanic wrong. Stop tunneling on the boss and clear out the adds. The boss spawns adds as it drops lower in hp. This fight is an exercise in self control in not just dps racing the boss. Has been pretty easy in all of my pugs when I convinced the group to not tunnel vision.

We still raced it down fyi ;)

Your choice to do so. You're complaining because you succeeded using an alternative tactic? When you race the boss down you're opting into the experience that you describe as toxic. That's an option you can choose to avoid the pile up of all of the adds and aoes with different tactics.

2 paths ahead, one is a cliff that you rock climb up and one is a winding trail that takes longer but with guard rails and gradual slope. You're freely choosing to climb up the cliff then complain about how steep and unsafe it is. No sympathy here really.

I complaint about it because its literally incarnation of c@nc$r? Tons of unnecessary mechanics ? No CC breakbar on boss? AOE spamfest that also include unblockable daze slam? Should I care for your sympathy ? FYI there was we breed fire that if you touch anything entire screen explode even with MORE aoe and outflanked, turning back to boss to get oneshotted by anything is really smart choice(and my party cba to kill mobs ,not like I can force 4 ppl to do it)

Then you ditch the party because they are failing mechanics and would prefer to wipe repeatedly. If I was in a group on Broken king with a bunch of dps that focused on bursting the boss and ignoring greens, everyone would tell them to git gud and follow boss mechanics. Same applies here. I dealt with the exact same instabilities just fine in my pugs. I told everyone to bring a reflect, I told everyone to stop hitting the boss and cleave adds. I told everyone to bring a pull. We one shot after everyone made adjustments without going down. Deadeye brought smoke screen and scorpion wire. Necro brought cpc and neurotic grasp. DH brought wall and used f1 and gs5 to pull. Slb ran stance shared bear stance and focused on using axe 4 to pull. It's not cancerous at all if you have the right tools.

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I have done it on T4 but I also must say it is totally blown out of proportions. The way I have learned it so far is pull the mobs and burst burst burst... and prey.The endboss is definitive harder then VG .

To top the story here I did it on T2 with gildies. Okay ruffly where there skill level were :

  • me and another fractal veterans
  • one on T3 level playing fractals only from time to time
  • one who couldn't do anything because of lacking AR(who asked us ..)
  • one random T2.

It took us 8 !!! wipes on T2 !!! to do the boss and me switching to FB from weaver means you are actually forced to have a healer or support in T2 !!( I admin only 2 of us did decadent DPS but hat do you expect in T2?)

It may sounds a bit funny but its starts to become a tradition to curse Arena.NET at then end of the fractal regardless of the outcome at least it always ends this way.

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It's not hard, it's annoying certainly, but not hard.The reason it's annoying; for now we play/played with few cleaves, and we just focused on the boss, neglecting the trahsmobs (just look on Artsariiv how people don't care about the elites, even if it takes 3 seconds to kill them, even if they wipe).Try Scourge (lot of aoe, epidemic, poison cloud against projectils) or Vipere FB (Litteraly you spam F1 endlessly (Permeating_Wrath +Renewed Justice REALLY HIGH DPS, + the pull #3) + wall/bubble etc) or fresh air tempest; and suddenly final boss becomes really easy.

And so people complains, because it's easier (and faster) with an "alternative tactic" ? What's the problem, serioulsy ? People complains about chrono jail, about necro or condi being excluded etc, and now we have an opportunity to break out the common compo, all bets are off ?

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dude this fractal sucks! worst one ever made! comparing this to shatter or even with the Amala fight is like worlds apart! I sorry but the difference in quality is huge. The end boss is aids, with some of the new instabilities with just impossible to finish with regular pugs. Yeah ok reflects condi cleans etc would work, but lets face it people dont have time for 1 run to be with X toon and Y run with another toon. People go in with 1 toon and do a full run.The mechanics suck, the events suck and the frame rate drops like dramatically when the stupid birds spawn. Also can you guys make that platform any smaller? I mean its too big and dogging is so easy on it would be nice to have it even smaller, u know for the fun of it (IRONY). I think this needs to be 100% re-vamped or removed and lets not speak of it ever again.

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The fractal needs further polishing imo.

1) The interaction between the cannon shots with the mines during the Skeleton boss. There are time the mines doesn't get destroyed (while being armed/visual clutter?) :anguished:.

2) The 2 Eye's spawn point at the last intersection/ junction of the maze for the puzzle needs to be changed; or limit the number of enemies spawned. Players tend to bottleneck at the end triggering an endless stream of mobs. To add, players with the curse debuff holding the coin bag usually gets rooted near the end. Which leads to one of the two; tossing the coin bag to the ground, risk having 2 Eyes spawning reseting it, or have a player to catch it risk spawning mobs :frown:.

3) For the final Bosses encounter, the pirate mobs are not getting cleared properly. Mobs from the pre-bosses events dissapear when the next boss appears, which works fine for the first two bosses. But not the same for Captain Crowe. Mobs spawned during the 2nd boss gets carried into Crowe's pre-event (usually /gg here for a reset)

4) Needs a higher angle or free the camera while using the ship's cannon.

5) Need different and brighter shade colours :smiley: for warning indicators. The warning indicator for the incoming Wind, Cone Attack and Puddle is identical to each other atm. The colour of the ship's deck blending in ain't helping either :tongue:. Will easily miss the details for players not knowing the pattern/ what to watch out for.

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1) The camera when you are looking down at the top of your character in either the stern or bow need to not zoom in when you get to close to the ends. This causes you to not be able to see the incoming winds. This is vital to not taking the toxic swim.

2)It would be nice if reflections or stability would allow you to endure the winds. If not then why should we be allowed to evade through them?

3)There needs to be something done about being in downed state then blown into the water just to swim to shore while still downed and go right to death. We have no way to revive oneself because you can not remain in the water because the damage is to great. This seems very unforgiving.

4)The colors or action triggers could be more pronounced maybe something similar to the "your doomed" in shattered observatory when you have the toxic pool or shark on you. There is already so much going on its sometimes hard to know when you have it because you are watching for the wind gust constantly moving.

5)Instabilities that need removed or reworked for this particular fractal because of the boss fight. Outflanked, We bleed fire, and Birds. Outflanked because there is always someone behind you shooting you. Birds and Fire make you evade when typically you shouldn't have to. This boss fight in particular because of the winds you need to save all the evasive maneuvers you can.

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@"Excursion.9752" said:1) The camera when you are looking down at the top of your character in either the stern or bow need to not zoom in when you get to close to the ends. This causes you to not be able to see the incoming winds. This is vital to not taking the toxic swim.

2)It would be nice if reflections or stability would allow you to endure the winds. If not then why should we be allowed to evade through them?

3)There needs to be something done about being in downed state then blown into the water just to swim to shore while still downed and go right to death. We have no way to revive oneself because you can not remain in the water because the damage is to great. This seems very unforgiving.

4)The colors or action triggers could be more pronounced maybe something similar to the "your doomed" in shattered observatory when you have the toxic pool or shark on you. There is already so much going on its sometimes hard to know when you have it because you are watching for the wind gust constantly moving.

5)Instabilities that need removed or reworked for this particular fractal because of the boss fight. Outflanked, We bleed fire, and Birds. Outflanked because there is always someone behind you shooting you. Birds and Fire make you evade when typically you shouldn't have to. This boss fight in particular because of the winds you need to save all the evasive maneuvers you can.

Add social awkwardness to the needs to be removed list.

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today I as fractal goddess using all possible configuration(heal, supp, ..) was wiped in Siren's long time with my guildmates, wiht best result 45% left ... and abort this still not closed for full geared legendary members..Thanks what we have Molten Furnace and run it.We love fractals, but something strange in way that we go if talk about Siren's reef,..Why is kill roleplay ?

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After playing some weeks with the new instabs I came to the conclusion that Siren's Reef and the new instabilities (with the exception of Slippery slope because that makes some skills unusable) are perfectly fine as they are.

If you cannot handle the T4 instabs, go do it with your team on T3 (instead of just not doing it) - there are difficulty tiers for a reason...I did it twice today, one time with a completely unoptimized pug (we did not even have booncoverage and wiped a single time) and the other time with a powerfb+ ren healer comp and we did not wipe at all.

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Fun fractal, hope anet doesn't give in to the whiners. Yes it can be tough, especially with certain instabilities, but this is supposed to be end game 5 man content I say most other fracs need to be much closer to this difficulty. Maybe you can't get a group together that is good enough to do t4 some days, that's fine that's what t3 is for, or roll up sleeves and try different strategies and different comps to figure out how to do it.

We bleed fire is the biggest killer here today since so many mobs, this instability gets shut down be aoe projectile reflects/destructs which every class has at least some access to, coordinate with your team to chain these skills together to negate the biggest source of incoming damage. After that lots of mobs obviously means you want all the stuff that is strong against trash mobs in general like aoe pulls, blind fields, aoe stuns/dazes, and big aoe cleave damage in general. Next, the trash mobs all apply a fairly high amount of conditions so bring cleanses for the group to keep everyone healthy, chill in particular is a killer here since it makes it harder to move out of the wind-gusts where being blown off into the water is often lethal. For out flanked, the only counter really is pulling all the mobs to a central point so you can face all of them at once, though really this would require more pulls than you can realistically expect, you may just need to build with a bit more sustain to offset the added incoming damage. Lastly from what I have heard, the mobs spawn at particular intervals of the bosses health, so you can try slowing down on the boss and just kill each wave of mobs as they spawn so you never have to deal with too many at once, my groups have never had to resort to this tactic but in theory it should make it a bit easier.

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@Hoodie.1045 said:The best way to play Siren's Reef regardless of tier is to have a support player in your group. Whether it's a druid, a support scrapper, a support tempest or any other healing build, as long as you have at least one support player, you shouldn't have any problems. Groups without a support tend to struggle a lot, especially on the final fight with Captain Crowe.

In my opinion, Crowe becomes unfairly difficult on higher tiers without a support in your group. The amount of things you have to keep in mind, such as the flux bomb, the unavoidable shark attack, piranhas in the water etc, it can be overwhelming for some players. So your best bet is to have a support player in your group, especially a support player who focuses on keeping allies alive.

About the blanket part, I tried to dodge it many times in many ways but I always failed, is it really unavoidable? If yes that's a really shitty mechanic....

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@ArthurDent.9538 said:Fun fractal, hope anet doesn't give in to the whiners. Yes it can be tough, especially with certain instabilities, but this is supposed to be end game 5 man content I say most other fracs need to be much closer to this difficulty.

Its not giving about caving in to people who have concerns about the fractal. Its about adjusting the content so that it is more achievable than not. Last night I saw 5 group postings at one time saying that they were at the boss and looking for one thing or another. You rarely see one post saying at boss need help in LFG.

Certainly content is easier when you are running with a static group and you know what builds each other are running. Things do go nice and smooth. But the question that Anet needs to ask themselves is can this content be completed with random groups and team compositions that are not meta?

Most nights sirens reef is the right amount of difficult. Then on those really special nights when the stars align and the gates of hell open up you get what we had last night. While I was able to complete the fractal, after 3 of the 5 left because it was to much for them, the amount of fun being had was nonexistent.

The fact of the matter is there need to be some adjustments to some of the new instabilities on some of the different fractals or I am afraid we will see even more of a drop off from the fractal community. We can tell people all day to drop down and do T3's but we are talking human ego here and people would rather not do them at all rather than do something than they feel is beneath them.

We need to fine the area where content is challenging and fun at the same time for the majority of the player base.

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Minor adjustments to Siren's Reef which would go a long way to make it more fun (notice I don't have any issues with the current difficulty since I have no problem clearing it, but I do agree that compared to other normal T4s, certain instabilities can make this very class restrictive and un-fun):

Pre-Ship phase:

  • limit add spawn on the mini boss.
  • de-spawn adds once having passed the maze. This serves no purpose besides being annoying. The fractal is long enough to not have to draw out its duration.
  • possibly remove birds from the maze area (I believe this would increase "fun" of the fractal a lot more).

Ship phase:

  • make adds de-spawn on the pre bosses. It's not fun to have to cleave down infinite adds while the next canon phase already started (or make add spawns finite). If a /gg results in faster mechanics for many players, something is off.

Final Boss:

  • change add spawns on the final boss to a similar nature as with Mai Trin: spawn adds every 25% of boss life, keep add spawns limited and finite.

All of these changes would obviously drastically change the difficulty of the fractal. More importantly though, it would change many mechanics in a way which works better with new instabilities as well as open up more strategies to overcome content dps wise (focus down adds and then go for the boss with strong single target damage or just cleave everything down). It would put the fractal more in line with other fractals.

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The only things that bother me; the width of the ship, making dodge suicidal, and the size of the boss/hitbox, it could be a bit larger to improve sight and "re-targeting".

Otherwise, it's just obviousness. Too much mobs ? Focus them /Cleave. Projectiles ? Anti-proj ... Not all have both, nor one, but come on, we have 5 people in group ... chrono, DH, ren, FB, Tempest, scourge, even thief and engi have anti-projectile, is it hard to change skills ? Is it hard to launch aoes and cc on mobs ?

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@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:The only things that bother me; the width of the ship, making dodge suicidal, and the size of the boss/hitbox, it could be a bit larger to improve sight and "re-targeting".

Otherwise, it's just obviousness. Too much mobs ? Focus them /Cleave. Projectiles ? Anti-proj ... Not all have both, nor one, but come on, we have 5 people in group ... chrono, DH, ren, FB, Tempest, scourge, even thief and engi have anti-projectile, is it hard to change skills ? Is it hard to launch aoes and cc on mobs ?

think they fixed the retargetting. last night i didn't need to retarget the boss every time she teleported.

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@squallaus.8321 said:

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:The only things that bother me; the width of the ship, making dodge suicidal, and the size of the boss/hitbox, it could be a bit larger to improve sight and "re-targeting".

Otherwise, it's just obviousness. Too much mobs ? Focus them /Cleave. Projectiles ? Anti-proj ... Not all have both, nor one, but come on, we have 5 people in group ... chrono, DH, ren, FB, Tempest, scourge, even thief and engi have anti-projectile, is it hard to change skills ? Is it hard to launch aoes and cc on mobs ?

think they fixed the retargetting. last night i didn't need to retarget the boss every time she teleported.

Didn't happen for me and it's more than just a teleport, condi on her resets too. Could it be auto targeting? I play with mine "off". The maze gauntlet took longer and more of a challenge than the final encounter for me and my group. But can see why the final fight can be hard. It challenges the party as whole, everyone needs be experienced with the fight and how it works. Imo it's either the group made it through with no casualties, or won't make it at all.

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