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Warrior Needs More Ranged Weapon Options


Swagger.1459

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@Leinhart.2981 said:

@Leinhart.2981 said:Warrior doen't use magic, so yes, it's the most stupid idea I've ever seen. Ranged hammer... Why not a close range shortbow, because it's short! It definitly made for melee!

While I don't like the idea the OP has, it's certainly not stupid because of the limitations YOU impose on what you think the warrior should be.

I don't support changing any current weapons, but the espec is a reasonable way to petition for a ranged weapon.

A ranged weapon is not a bad idea (even if we actually already have 2, we just need a correct rifle) but the idea of a warrior using magic is just stupid. If I want a mage knight I'll pick a guard. A war is a master of martial arts, that's all. We just need to respect the archetype.

Maybe, but who's to say it doesn't already use magic? That's Anet's call and I think if you look a little harder, you see there are elements of magic in what warriors do ... even if you think it's stupid.

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  • 1 month later...

I'll be happy with combustive shot nerfs getting reversed and Kill Shot being baseline unblockable (You're already rooted and it has a high casting time..)

But I doubt ANET will even revert nerfs in the first place. Rifle has been and will probably be neglected or ANET just wants Rifle to be hard.

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While I agree that warrior ranged options need some attention, I don't think changing hammer is the way to go. If more elite specs are added, I'd like to see a main-hand ranged option such as pistol. I say that because I'd like to utilize the trait Dual Wielding while ranged. If more elite specs are not added, then my vote would be to revamp warrior rifle. There have been many threads specific to suggestions for rifle revamp, many with good ideas presented.

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Normally I dont like unblockable attacks unless the player has to do something to get it. Like slotting a utility or signet on the skill bar. Just tacking it on to an attack is cheap and only hurts the game with less counter-play options, heavy hitting ranged attacks should be blockable. The attacker should have to play around the defenders blocks, that's the skill element at play.

But then Deadeye got unblockable just tacked on to Deaths Judgement "just becuz", and Soulbeast has plenty of unblockable as well. Considering this perhaps BlackTruth is right, Killshot should also get the same treatment.

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  • 5 months later...

@Acheron.4731 said:I think they need to update gunflame to pierce again. It may have seemed OP after HoT but since PoF intro of FB's and scrapper sustain blobs with scourges tucked nicely in..a good gf with Signet of Might can help disperse that ball :)

I can get behind this. It does AoE though. Maybe make the AoE larger instead? Reduce Rifle 2 to a 4s CD, reduce Rifle 3 to a 6s CD, increase the damage on Rifle 1 and Rifle 2 by 20%. Unroot Killshot. Rifle might actually be decent then... especially if Crackshot made all the rounds pierce again like it used too.

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Warrior has ranged weapons that are almost usable as is. Hambow was meta for what seemed like forever. Rifle has been in and out of playability. I think most players would just prefer they allow these to be viable ranged alternates rather than giving us Revenant hammer 2.0.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Increase Rifle AA damage by 50%, reduce baseline CD on Rifle 2 and rifle 3 by 2s each. Unroot Killshot. These three changes to Rifle would make it a viable range power DPS weapon for warriors of any flavor.

I don't see how these particular changes are needed or even reasonable.

And many people don't see how it's "needed or even reasonable" that Warrior rifle unviable for anything but open world.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Increase Rifle AA damage by 50%, reduce baseline CD on Rifle 2 and rifle 3 by 2s each. Unroot Killshot. These three changes to Rifle would make it a viable range power DPS weapon for warriors of any flavor.

I don't see how these particular changes are needed or even reasonable.

Rifle damage sucks is why. Volley and Gunflame may be useful for plinking noobs in WvW, but beyond that Rifle is lackluster as a weapon. It very well could be a viable main weapon if they made some changes. Namely, increase AA damage by 50%, but this could be instead to reduce the cast from 3/4s to 1/4s, but as is the attack speed vs damage ratio makes the AA stink. After that reducing Rifle 2 and 3 baseline CD each by 2s would be sufficient to raise the dps of the weapon without further tweaks.

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It doesn't even have to be the numbers you've outlined tbh. Rifle just needs looking at in some capacity. If Anet are worried about the knock on effects of buffing rifle base damage and cooldowns and how it'd interact with spellbreakers in PvP then I'm cool if they instead shift it to a trait that creates a trade off. If they're worried about a true power ranged option for warriors full stop then I'm cool if Anet redesigns the weapon from the ground up. As long as it gets a purpose somewhere other than running round in open world (where it's not necessarily good per say but works because well anything works) or gunflame meme builds then I'm happy.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Increase Rifle AA damage by 50%, reduce baseline CD on Rifle 2 and rifle 3 by 2s each. Unroot Killshot. These three changes to Rifle would make it a viable range power DPS weapon for warriors of any flavor.

I don't see how these particular changes are needed or even reasonable.

Rifle damage sucks is why. Volley and Gunflame may be useful for plinking noobs in WvW, but beyond that Rifle is lackluster as a weapon. It very well could be a viable main weapon if they made some changes. Namely, increase AA damage by 50%, but this could be instead to reduce the cast from 3/4s to 1/4s, but as is the attack speed vs damage ratio makes the AA stink. After that reducing Rifle 2 and 3 baseline CD each by 2s would be sufficient to raise the dps of the weapon without further tweaks.

Ok, so I said I don't understand why these particular changes are needed and all you did was repeat them to me again, that's not even close to answering what you based these particular changes/numbers on. It seems you simply said "it needs to be stronger" and then randomized some dmg buffs and cd reductions for no good reason. It also seems your "go to buff" is "reduce cd of 2 skills by 2 seconds", because I'm pretty sure that's not the first weapon you propose that for.I think rifle is already an ok swap weapon and it shouldn't be a ""viable"" (as in "one of the top picks", because pretty sure that's what most people on this forum mean when they say "viable") main weapon used by warrior. It seems what you -and other people that keep saying ranged options for warrior need buffing- want here is some kind of deadeye knock-off while remaining beefy, because you're still a warrior.Rifle AA already has the same dmg, range and cast time as DE, which is literally a designated squishy rifle e-spec, so again I don't really understand why 50% dmg buff is something you think is deserved here. 2 second cd reduction on 2 skills (which already have decently short cooldowns when traited in the first place)? Again, why? Unrooting killshot? Why? I'm not asking you to repeat the same buffs "because you think rifle needs buffs", I'm asking you why you propose these particular buffs and numbers. "Reducing cd on 2 skills by 2 seconds would raise dps", well removing CD on every skill OR doing as little as reducing CD of "5" by half a second would buff dps too, it's not much of an answer. What I want to know is: did you run some numbers here or are you just shooting random buffs because yes?

Anyways, I still think it shouldn't be buffed, it's good enough as a situational ranged swap as it is.

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If we're talking about zerker rifle then I kind of agree that it is 'okay' as a backup weapon even if it is carried largely by volley + gunflame burst. If we're talking core rifle, then no I don't agree that rifle is really 'okay'. I can't think of anywhere that I'd use a rifle even as a backup weapon in pretty much any game mode unless I'm fooling around. I'd honestly rather take long bow, even on a power build, if I want to just plink at things in open world. Back in the day core rifle did see some use in WvW, but not really in the current state of the game outside of what are really tier 2 zerker rifle builds that pretty much just switch out to lmao with a volley + gunflame combo. I actually agree that just flat out buffing AA isn't the answer but it's also pretty pointless to make comparisons between Brutal Aim and Fierce Shot in isolation of the rest of the kit. As a start, Brutal stacks vuln and casts faster (despite the tooltip saying they're both 3/4, it's slightly quicker) and Fierce only gets a very slight adrenaline increase against vulnerable targets.

My own suggestions, along with explanations, would be:

1) Bake in the bonus adrenaline from Crack Shot to Fierce Shot. I think something along these lines is better than just out and out increasing rifle damage further like it was in 2018 (and still seldom used). Numbers wise even with this buff, we're still talking 10 AA shots against a vulnerable target to max adrenaline, which seems reasonable. This would basically make core rifle a good adrenaline generator when you can't stick or engage a target in melee, which seems like a good place to be. Crack Shot is quite neat but it's rarely ever taken due to it being next to Warriors Sprint. I'd consider moving Crack Shot or combining it with another trait, but I couldn't say where (potentially to a different tree than Discipline as to actually create some trade offs). If the adrenaline gain were to be baked in baseline then a possible addition to the trait could be basically adding bleed back to auto (back when Fierce Shot was Bleeding Shot) as it was relatively minor and inline with similar ranged traits like Burning Arrows.

2) Reduce Brutal Shot from 1/2 to 1/4 cast time. The main reason is that Brutal Shot has always had this weird bug where it goes on cooldown if the target moves behind or walks past you, having 1/4 cast time would potentially eliminate this bug and also make sense given that one of the purposes of Brutal shot is to quickly create distance between you and the target. Given that it doesn't pierce or cleave, this doesn't seem like a big change.

3) Either unroot Kill Shot but keep the current cast time or keep the root and reduce the cast time to be 3/4 like Gun Flame. In either case, Gun Flame is still the better burst skill (and should be as it's kind zerkers whole shtick) but the original intention of Kill Shot was to be high risk/high reward and in the current state of the game it's kind of high risk/mediocre-at-best reward. In the current state of the game, now that we've got elite specs and all the power creep, Kill Shot feels pretty out of place. Unrooting would bring it more in line with the other 'long' cast time rifle skill Volley and make the weapon overall less clunky I feel.

I think these are really just QoL changes overall. I do think that any further buffing of rifle needs to be carefully considered and I think the best way would be via giving some good traits to rifle as to create a trade off.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Increase Rifle AA damage by 50%, reduce baseline CD on Rifle 2 and rifle 3 by 2s each. Unroot Killshot. These three changes to Rifle would make it a viable range power DPS weapon for warriors of any flavor.

I don't see how these particular changes are needed or even reasonable.

Rifle damage sucks is why. Volley and Gunflame may be useful for plinking noobs in WvW, but beyond that Rifle is lackluster as a weapon. It very well could be a viable main weapon if they made some changes. Namely, increase AA damage by 50%, but this could be instead to reduce the cast from 3/4s to 1/4s, but as is the attack speed vs damage ratio makes the AA stink. After that reducing Rifle 2 and 3 baseline CD each by 2s would be sufficient to raise the dps of the weapon without further tweaks.

Ok, so I said I don't understand why these particular changes are needed and all you did was repeat them to me again, that's not even close to answering what you based these particular changes/numbers on. It seems you simply said "it needs to be stronger" and then randomized some dmg buffs and cd reductions for no good reason. It also seems your "go to buff" is "reduce cd of 2 skills by 2 seconds", because I'm pretty sure that's not the first weapon you propose that for.I think rifle is already an ok swap weapon and it shouldn't be a ""viable"" (
as in "one of the top picks"
, because pretty sure that's what most people on this forum mean when they say "viable") main weapon used by warrior. It seems what you -and other people that keep saying ranged options for warrior need buffing- want here is some kind of deadeye knock-off while remaining beefy, because you're still a warrior.Rifle AA already has the same dmg, range and cast time as DE, which is literally a designated squishy rifle e-spec, so again I don't really understand why 50% dmg buff is something you think is deserved here. 2 second cd reduction on 2 skills (which already have decently short cooldowns when traited in the first place)? Again, why? Unrooting killshot? Why? I'm not asking you to repeat the same buffs "because you think rifle needs buffs", I'm asking you why you propose these particular buffs and numbers. "Reducing cd on 2 skills by 2 seconds would raise dps", well removing CD on every skill OR doing as little as reducing CD of "5" by half a second would buff dps too, it's not much of an answer. What I want to know is: did you run some numbers here or are you just shooting random buffs because yes?

Anyways, I still think it shouldn't be buffed, it's good enough as a situational ranged swap as it is.

How about you go use Rifle for something other than gunflame lolz vs noobs in PvP and WvW. Outside of that rifle is meh. I mentioned AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 3 because that is where the damage is. AA either needs more damage on it, or to cast quicker. Although @Ambrosius Custard.8137 has a good recommendation.

As to WHY I mentioned CD reduction instead of adding on MOAR damage onto Rifle 2 and Rifle 3, that is because it avoids any issues with damage modifiers stacking the damage too high, if that is too complicated to grasp then go read the QQ threads on the old "Sic'em!". A cool down reduction on those skills effectively increases the dps of the weapon kit without breaking the raw damage numbers. So, no I am not spouting off random numbers.

I did not even get into Kill Shot, which as @Ambrosius Custard.8137 stated was a high risk/high reward skill at launch, but now is just all risk/no reward with how the game has evolved. It needs to either be unrooted, or to have a shorter cast time. Since you do not seem to understand why Kill Shot is an all risk/no reward F1 at the moment, if you use it you are sitting still, you will get aoe'd, cc'd, or just dps'd until the last frame where the enemy will simply dodge. If you choose to move out of or dodge any of the aforementioned aoe, cc, or dps then Kill Shot goes on CD. You may be able to land it in a zerg fight or keep fight in WvW, but beyond that there is little chance you will land it, unlike Gunflame which is superior in every way.

Perhaps instead of naysaying you should instead offer up as to WHY you perceive everything to be fine with Rifle eh?

@Ambrosius Custard.8137 I'd like crack shot to make all rounds pierce again like it used too personally.

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Yeah I think it's a little bit of fantasy to think rifle needs improvements because it's meh in a specific game mode. That's never been a reason to fix anything in this game, ESPECIALLY if there are already lots of options in that game mode to choose from to begin with.

Sure, things suck in PVE. That hasn't been a very significant reason in the past to improve things, so I don't see the why it would be different for rifle. It's not fine, but that's simply not a compelling reason to change it. Most of the changes we see are not rationalized by performance.

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@Obtena.7952 said:Yeah I think it's a little bit of fantasy to think rifle needs improvements because it's meh in a specific game mode. That's never been a reason to fix anything in this game, ESPECIALLY if there are already lots of options in that game mode to choose from to begin with.

Sure, things suck in PVE. That hasn't been a very significant reason in the past to improve things, so I don't see the why it would be different for rifle. It's not fine, but that's simply not a compelling reason to change it. Most of the changes we see are not rationalized by performance.

Its meh in every gamemode sans gunflaming people in WvW.

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