Tempest still trash level

[Arheundel.6451]

Can't compete with firebrand heals...or clear condis nearly as good...can't provide actual useful boons like stability or resistance still the same old might and regen...still get CCed to death thx to CC uber power creep .. still can't mass clear condis to deal with uber condi burst coming from scourges....still trash level.

It's still a tryhard spec for the sake of try hard, no real benefit in running it as everybody else can do much better and much easier...yeah you're better off with core ele or even weaver, just stay away from this garbage design

[meb.6285]

This has to be a L2P issue. I outheal FBs by about 25% and clear on average 5-10x the condis that they do because of Antitoxin Runes. We also bring reliable superspeed. We provide many benefits as the off-support class. We might not be as crucial as the FB, but in most cases having FB+Tempest is better than 2 FB.

[Arheundel.6451]

@meb.6285 said:This has to be a L2P issue. I outheal FBs by about 25% and clear on average 5-10x the condis that they do because of Antitoxin Runes. We also bring reliable superspeed. We provide many benefits as the off-support class. We might not be as crucial as the FB, but in most cases having FB+Tempest is better than 2 FB.

Omegalol! you outheal firebrand while not even using healing runes..that may be a first I read such balsy statement....reliable superspeed?...like every 40s for 5s? ok sure..what else? you clear more condis than firebrand...hmm...why don't you post your legendary build , mate?

[supreme.3602]

My friend, you must be playing some other class with no weapons equipped or something.

This is definitely a L2P issue, because tempest is killing it at the moment in WvW. Like tonight, our raid was pushing hard and balls deep into the enemy, and that's because of the tempest sustain. It's crazy. I don't know what your problem is with it, but please don't tell others that the spec/design is bad when it really isn't.

If you have the right build, you can clear conditions and heal like a boss. You don't need to provide stability or resistance. Other classes can do that for us. Our job is to heal, CC and provide amazing cleanses. Don't expect any less and you won't be disappointed.

[Emberheart.8426]

I haven't managed to try WvW yet, but I was debating on whether to run tempest/water/arcane with monk runes or tempest/water/fire with antitoxin runes. From the comments here, it looks like I might have to try the fire build. Seems like pretty good cleansing on paper, though you do lose a bit of healing, boons and utility from arcane.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Arheundel.6451]

@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTEDo not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

[Emberheart.8426]

@Arheundel.6451 said:@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTEDo not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

I don't know what they are running but I assume something like this would provide the optimal condi cleansing for tempest. http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0Xqvk+L9XaFmKMxBTDmwhpDTLFAWwAoBEAcHtp2ZLxSoKMJB-jlxDQBQU5HAV/BAPIA4dBBdEfUJIz2fIAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w I have not tested this yet, so I cannot truly vouch for its effectiveness but I thought that I should post it anyway since I doubt the people you quoted will be posting builds any time soon.

You can swap soothing power for powerful aura and get some of the adept aura traits for slightly more cleansing, but I have a hunch that soothing power ends up being better. At least from what I can see, due to the recent changes to water overload being 10 targets, and now tempestuous aria making shouts target 10, you may be able to get equivalent condi cleanse to a firebrand that is spending all the tome of resolve pages on condi cleansing, provided that you water overload and shout off CD. This is without antitoxin runes btw. If you use antitoxin runes, tempest benefits way more, as you rely more on a lot of cleanses that only cleanse a single condition per target, or ones that pulse cleansing. In addition to your more common cleanses, windborne speed and stop, drop and roll should also trigger antitoxin rune if you have the right conditions on you or your allies to cleanse. You also have the benefit of having a higher radius on most of your cleanses as shouts are all 600 and water overload is 360.

Now PvP is a different beast. All these changes that made skills affect 10 targets are worthless there and tempest is completely outclassed. Tempests may need some buffs to their alternative trait choices that will affect only 5 targets, but buffs are also desperately needed on core ele because the tempest trait line cannot carry a PvP build all by itself.

[meb.6285]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w

PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTE

Do not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

I don't know what they are running but I assume something like this would provide the optimal condi cleansing for tempest.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0Xqvk+L9XaFmKMxBTDmwhpDTLFAWwAoBEAcHtp2ZLxSoKMJB-jlxDQBQU5HAV/BAPIA4dBBdEfUJIz2fIAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot truly vouch for its effectiveness but I thought that I should post it anyway since I doubt the people you quoted will be posting builds any time soon.

You can swap soothing power for powerful aura and get some of the adept aura traits for slightly more cleansing, but I have a hunch that soothing power ends up being better. At least from what I can see, due to the recent changes to water overload being 10 targets, and now tempestuous aria making shouts target 10, you may be able to get equivalent condi cleanse to a firebrand that is spending all the tome pages on condi cleansing, provided that you water overload and shout off CD. This is without antitoxin runes btw. If you use antitoxin runes, tempest benefits way more, as you rely more on a lot of cleanses that only cleanse a single condition per target, or ones that pulse cleansing. In addition to your more common cleanses, windborne speed and stop, drop and roll should also trigger antitoxin rune if you have the right conditions on you or your allies to cleanse. You also have the benefit of having a higher radius on most of your cleanses as shouts are all 600 and water overload is 360.

Now PvP is a different beast. All these changes that made skills affect 10 targets are worthless there and tempest is completely outclassed. Tempests may need some buffs to their alternative trait choices that will affect only 5 targets, but buffs are also desperately needed on core ele because the tempest trait line cannot carry a PvP build all by itself.

You're missing the key trait that pulls it all together - Cleansing Water. Healing Rain then clears a metric crap-ton of condis, and any skill putting out regen clears 2 from each player. I wasn't joking when I said it'll clear 5-10x as many condis as FB. Before the balance patch I'd routinely clear 200-400 condis in 2 minute fights. 600+ in longer keep fights. Also, Arcane is just better because of the Geyser trait. This is why my healing outpaces FBs, Geyser revives count for A LOT of heals. Sometimes 50% of my output is from rezzing/Geysering.

--edit, wrong trait

[Emberheart.8426]

@meb.6285 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w

PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTE

Do not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

I don't know what they are running but I assume something like this would provide the optimal condi cleansing for tempest.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0Xqvk+L9XaFmKMxBTDmwhpDTLFAWwAoBEAcHtp2ZLxSoKMJB-jlxDQBQU5HAV/BAPIA4dBBdEfUJIz2fIAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot truly vouch for its effectiveness but I thought that I should post it anyway since I doubt the people you quoted will be posting builds any time soon.

You can swap soothing power for powerful aura and get some of the adept aura traits for slightly more cleansing, but I have a hunch that soothing power ends up being better. At least from what I can see, due to the recent changes to water overload being 10 targets, and now tempestuous aria making shouts target 10, you may be able to get equivalent condi cleanse to a firebrand that is spending all the tome pages on condi cleansing, provided that you water overload and shout off CD. This is without antitoxin runes btw. If you use antitoxin runes, tempest benefits way more, as you rely more on a lot of cleanses that only cleanse a single condition per target, or ones that pulse cleansing. In addition to your more common cleanses, windborne speed and stop, drop and roll should also trigger antitoxin rune if you have the right conditions on you or your allies to cleanse. You also have the benefit of having a higher radius on most of your cleanses as shouts are all 600 and water overload is 360.

Now PvP is a different beast. All these changes that made skills affect 10 targets are worthless there and tempest is completely outclassed. Tempests may need some buffs to their alternative trait choices that will affect only 5 targets, but buffs are also desperately needed on core ele because the tempest trait line cannot carry a PvP build all by itself.

You're missing the key trait that pulls it all together - Soothing Mist. Healing Rain then clears a metric kitten-ton of condis, and any skill putting out regen clears 2 from each player. I wasn't joking when I said it'll clear 5-10x as many condis as FB. Before the balance patch I'd routinely clear 200-400 condis in 2 minute fights. 600+ in longer keep fights.

I think you mean cleansing water. I considered putting that in there but is it truly worth the healing that you sacrifice from soothing power? All the skills that I can think of that provide regen will already cleanse condis with the build that I posted. The regen will give them 1 more condi cleanse per target per pulse each. Now I may be wrong here on how antitoxin runes work, but I am under the impression that they will cleanse 1 additional condition per pulse of whatever cleanse skill you use. So if you add more cleanse by regen, you are not truly adding more antitoxin rune procs. Overload water, healing rain and flash freeze will all cleanse you already without the regen cleanse, which means that you already get the antitoxin rune proc.

Now if the antitoxin rune can proc twice per pulse of the skill due to the regen, disregard what I said. But I'm not sure if it works that way looking at the wording.

Edit: Even though I seriously doubt that you will get more antitoxin procs, getting cleanses from regen is quite good, especially with overload water. On paper you get another 120 cleanses per minute only from using water overload off CD. Healing rain and flash freeze add a few more. In the end I think you will want to spec either cleansing water or soothing power, depending on if you want that bit of extra cleanse or more healing.

[meb.6285]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@meb.6285 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w

PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTE

Do not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

I don't know what they are running but I assume something like this would provide the optimal condi cleansing for tempest.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0Xqvk+L9XaFmKMxBTDmwhpDTLFAWwAoBEAcHtp2ZLxSoKMJB-jlxDQBQU5HAV/BAPIA4dBBdEfUJIz2fIAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot truly vouch for its effectiveness but I thought that I should post it anyway since I doubt the people you quoted will be posting builds any time soon.

You can swap soothing power for powerful aura and get some of the adept aura traits for slightly more cleansing, but I have a hunch that soothing power ends up being better. At least from what I can see, due to the recent changes to water overload being 10 targets, and now tempestuous aria making shouts target 10, you may be able to get equivalent condi cleanse to a firebrand that is spending all the tome pages on condi cleansing, provided that you water overload and shout off CD. This is without antitoxin runes btw. If you use antitoxin runes, tempest benefits way more, as you rely more on a lot of cleanses that only cleanse a single condition per target, or ones that pulse cleansing. In addition to your more common cleanses, windborne speed and stop, drop and roll should also trigger antitoxin rune if you have the right conditions on you or your allies to cleanse. You also have the benefit of having a higher radius on most of your cleanses as shouts are all 600 and water overload is 360.

Now PvP is a different beast. All these changes that made skills affect 10 targets are worthless there and tempest is completely outclassed. Tempests may need some buffs to their alternative trait choices that will affect only 5 targets, but buffs are also desperately needed on core ele because the tempest trait line cannot carry a PvP build all by itself.

You're missing the key trait that pulls it all together - Soothing Mist. Healing Rain then clears a metric kitten-ton of condis, and any skill putting out regen clears 2 from each player. I wasn't joking when I said it'll clear 5-10x as many condis as FB. Before the balance patch I'd routinely clear 200-400 condis in 2 minute fights. 600+ in longer keep fights.

I think you mean cleansing water. I considered putting that in there but is it truly worth the healing that you sacrifice from soothing power? All the skills that I can think of that provide regen will already cleanse condis with the build that I posted. The regen will give them 1 more condi cleanse per target per pulse each. Now I may be wrong here on how antitoxin runes work, but I am under the impression that they will cleanse 1 additional condition per pulse of whatever cleanse skill you use. So if you add more cleanse by regen, you are not truly adding more antitoxin rune procs. Overload water, healing rain and flash freeze will all cleanse you already without the regen cleanse, which means that you already get the antitoxin rune proc.

Now if the antitoxin rune can proc twice per pulse of the skill due to the regen, disregard what I said. But I'm not sure if it works that way looking at the wording.

Yes it procs, yes you want that, I've been playing that build since Antitoxins were introduced, when you put out Healing Rain, your group is essentially protected by an un-corruptible Resistance, that's how much condi clear goes out. As tempest are now meta (have been since Antitoxin runes), any condi builds are trash right now, in large group play. They're only going to beat bad groups that don't run any tempests.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w

PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTE

Do not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

I don't know what they are running but I assume something like this would provide the optimal condi cleansing for tempest.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0Xqvk+L9XaFmKMxBTDmwhpDTLFAWwAoBEAcHtp2ZLxSoKMJB-jlxDQBQU5HAV/BAPIA4dBBdEfUJIz2fIAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot truly vouch for its effectiveness but I thought that I should post it anyway since I doubt the people you quoted will be posting builds any time soon.

You can swap soothing power for powerful aura and get some of the adept aura traits for slightly more cleansing, but I have a hunch that soothing power ends up being better. At least from what I can see, due to the recent changes to water overload being 10 targets, and now tempestuous aria making shouts target 10, you may be able to get equivalent condi cleanse to a firebrand that is spending all the tome of resolve pages on condi cleansing, provided that you water overload and shout off CD. This is without antitoxin runes btw. If you use antitoxin runes, tempest benefits way more, as you rely more on a lot of cleanses that only cleanse a single condition per target, or ones that pulse cleansing. In addition to your more common cleanses, windborne speed and stop, drop and roll should also trigger antitoxin rune if you have the right conditions on you or your allies to cleanse. You also have the benefit of having a higher radius on most of your cleanses as shouts are all 600 and water overload is 360.

Now PvP is a different beast. All these changes that made skills affect 10 targets are worthless there and tempest is completely outclassed. Tempests may need some buffs to their alternative trait choices that will affect only 5 targets, but buffs are also desperately needed on core ele because the tempest trait line cannot carry a PvP build all by itself.

It's the idea of balance which seems to differ here, I don't think something that relies on a rune set to be considered competitive can be called as "amazing" , there is less flexibility and utility compared to guardian and less survival than druid, outside that small gear niche...tempest is completely worthless and that's the whole point : the spec is not up to par with the rest yet.

The class keeps depending on gimmicks to stay alive respect to say a guardian or ranger or engi : few skills , trait and weapon choice...but everytime you get people telling you otherwise..blinded by the glittering of their gimmicks....which disappear into thin air at the first small nerf

All I need is say a 2s cd on anti-toxin runes and there goes your build, you suddenly are not as good or even close to a FB which remains unaffected at core concept level...I wish people would understand that..but most just come here with their gimmick build and l2p arguments..sad reality

[Emberheart.8426]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w

PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTE

Do not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

I don't know what they are running but I assume something like this would provide the optimal condi cleansing for tempest.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0Xqvk+L9XaFmKMxBTDmwhpDTLFAWwAoBEAcHtp2ZLxSoKMJB-jlxDQBQU5HAV/BAPIA4dBBdEfUJIz2fIAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot truly vouch for its effectiveness but I thought that I should post it anyway since I doubt the people you quoted will be posting builds any time soon.

You can swap soothing power for powerful aura and get some of the adept aura traits for slightly more cleansing, but I have a hunch that soothing power ends up being better. At least from what I can see, due to the recent changes to water overload being 10 targets, and now tempestuous aria making shouts target 10, you may be able to get equivalent condi cleanse to a firebrand that is spending all the tome of resolve pages on condi cleansing, provided that you water overload and shout off CD. This is without antitoxin runes btw. If you use antitoxin runes, tempest benefits way more, as you rely more on a lot of cleanses that only cleanse a single condition per target, or ones that pulse cleansing. In addition to your more common cleanses, windborne speed and stop, drop and roll should also trigger antitoxin rune if you have the right conditions on you or your allies to cleanse. You also have the benefit of having a higher radius on most of your cleanses as shouts are all 600 and water overload is 360.

Now PvP is a different beast. All these changes that made skills affect 10 targets are worthless there and tempest is completely outclassed. Tempests may need some buffs to their alternative trait choices that will affect only 5 targets, but buffs are also desperately needed on core ele because the tempest trait line cannot carry a PvP build all by itself.

It's the idea of balance which seems to differ here, I don't think something that relies on a rune set to be considered competitive can be called as "amazing" , there is less flexibility and utility compared to guardian and less survival than druid, outside that small gear niche...tempest is completely worthless and that's the whole point : the spec is not up to par with the rest yet.

The class keeps depending on gimmicks to stay alive respect to say a guardian or ranger or engi : few skills , trait and weapon choice...but everytime you get people telling you otherwise..blinded by the glittering of their gimmicks....which disappear into thin air at the first small nerf

All I need is say a 2s cd on anti-toxin runes and there goes your build, you suddenly are not as good or even close to a FB which remains unaffected at core concept level...I wish people would understand that..but most just come here with their gimmick build and l2p arguments..sad reality

Oh, I totally get what you are saying. Elementalist builds have been dependent on gimmicks that end up being nerfed and rendering the class suddenly trash tier for as long as I can remember. Though in this case even without antitoxin runes you can still cleanse pretty well on paper. Antitoxin simply takes it to absurd levels.

[Arheundel.6451]

@meb.6285 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@meb.6285 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w

PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTE

Do not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

I don't know what they are running but I assume something like this would provide the optimal condi cleansing for tempest.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0Xqvk+L9XaFmKMxBTDmwhpDTLFAWwAoBEAcHtp2ZLxSoKMJB-jlxDQBQU5HAV/BAPIA4dBBdEfUJIz2fIAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot truly vouch for its effectiveness but I thought that I should post it anyway since I doubt the people you quoted will be posting builds any time soon.

You can swap soothing power for powerful aura and get some of the adept aura traits for slightly more cleansing, but I have a hunch that soothing power ends up being better. At least from what I can see, due to the recent changes to water overload being 10 targets, and now tempestuous aria making shouts target 10, you may be able to get equivalent condi cleanse to a firebrand that is spending all the tome pages on condi cleansing, provided that you water overload and shout off CD. This is without antitoxin runes btw. If you use antitoxin runes, tempest benefits way more, as you rely more on a lot of cleanses that only cleanse a single condition per target, or ones that pulse cleansing. In addition to your more common cleanses, windborne speed and stop, drop and roll should also trigger antitoxin rune if you have the right conditions on you or your allies to cleanse. You also have the benefit of having a higher radius on most of your cleanses as shouts are all 600 and water overload is 360.

Now PvP is a different beast. All these changes that made skills affect 10 targets are worthless there and tempest is completely outclassed. Tempests may need some buffs to their alternative trait choices that will affect only 5 targets, but buffs are also desperately needed on core ele because the tempest trait line cannot carry a PvP build all by itself.

You're missing the key trait that pulls it all together - Soothing Mist. Healing Rain then clears a metric kitten-ton of condis, and any skill putting out regen clears 2 from each player. I wasn't joking when I said it'll clear 5-10x as many condis as FB. Before the balance patch I'd routinely clear 200-400 condis in 2 minute fights. 600+ in longer keep fights.

I think you mean cleansing water. I considered putting that in there but is it truly worth the healing that you sacrifice from soothing power? All the skills that I can think of that provide regen will already cleanse condis with the build that I posted. The regen will give them 1 more condi cleanse per target per pulse each. Now I may be wrong here on how antitoxin runes work, but I am under the impression that they will cleanse 1 additional condition per pulse of whatever cleanse skill you use. So if you add more cleanse by regen, you are not truly adding more antitoxin rune procs. Overload water, healing rain and flash freeze will all cleanse you already without the regen cleanse, which means that you already get the antitoxin rune proc.

Now if the antitoxin rune can proc twice per pulse of the skill due to the regen, disregard what I said. But I'm not sure if it works that way looking at the wording.

Yes it procs, yes you want that, I've been playing that build since Antitoxins were introduced, when you put out Healing Rain, your group is essentially protected by an un-corruptible Resistance, that's how much condi clear goes out. As tempest are now meta (have been since Antitoxin runes), any condi builds are trash right now, in large group play. They're only going to beat bad groups that don't run any tempests.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Antitoxin...

just what are you talking about? Are you playing T6 server by any chance? The blob fight may be different there I don't know

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@meb.6285 said:Yes it procs, yes you want that, I've been playing that build since Antitoxins were introduced, when you put out Healing Rain, your group is essentially protected by an un-corruptible Resistance, that's how much condi clear goes out. As tempest are now meta (have been since Antitoxin runes), any condi builds are trash right now, in large group play. They're only going to beat bad groups that don't run any tempests.

How would you say it compares to Minstrel Scrapper with Antitoxin Runes since Purge Gyro has been updated?

[Arheundel.6451]

@meb.6285 said:

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:@Dahir and @"Acyk.9671

Clear more than this pls :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQBbUNE2IM4NEUSIsrlVAIBsHQPoNUA-w

PLS

Talk is cheap! Post this legendary build of your and let's make the math

NOTE

Do not come here now trying to put words in other people mouths : "heals and cleanses far more than FB"....so come and prove it!

P.Sfor all those using those obnoxious "L2P" comments...my ingame name is written in clear letters so come and show me how to play , I guess after 8k hrs of which 6k spent in pvp surely I don't know how to use ele outside fireball 1 spam in queensdale

I don't know what they are running but I assume something like this would provide the optimal condi cleansing for tempest.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0Xqvk+L9XaFmKMxBTDmwhpDTLFAWwAoBEAcHtp2ZLxSoKMJB-jlxDQBQU5HAV/BAPIA4dBBdEfUJIz2fIAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot truly vouch for its effectiveness but I thought that I should post it anyway since I doubt the people you quoted will be posting builds any time soon.

You can swap soothing power for powerful aura and get some of the adept aura traits for slightly more cleansing, but I have a hunch that soothing power ends up being better. At least from what I can see, due to the recent changes to water overload being 10 targets, and now tempestuous aria making shouts target 10, you may be able to get equivalent condi cleanse to a firebrand that is spending all the tome pages on condi cleansing, provided that you water overload and shout off CD. This is without antitoxin runes btw. If you use antitoxin runes, tempest benefits way more, as you rely more on a lot of cleanses that only cleanse a single condition per target, or ones that pulse cleansing. In addition to your more common cleanses, windborne speed and stop, drop and roll should also trigger antitoxin rune if you have the right conditions on you or your allies to cleanse. You also have the benefit of having a higher radius on most of your cleanses as shouts are all 600 and water overload is 360.

Now PvP is a different beast. All these changes that made skills affect 10 targets are worthless there and tempest is completely outclassed. Tempests may need some buffs to their alternative trait choices that will affect only 5 targets, but buffs are also desperately needed on core ele because the tempest trait line cannot carry a PvP build all by itself.

You're missing the key trait that pulls it all together - Cleansing Water. Healing Rain then clears a metric kitten-ton of condis, and any skill putting out regen clears 2 from each player. I wasn't joking when I said it'll clear 5-10x as many condis as FB. Before the balance patch I'd routinely clear 200-400 condis in 2 minute fights. 600+ in longer keep fights. Also, Arcane is just better because of the Geyser trait. This is why my healing outpaces FBs, Geyser revives count for A LOT of heals. Sometimes 50% of my output is from rezzing/Geysering.

--edit, wrong trait

-Healing rain with GM trait is 2 condis removed every 3s for 6s for a total of 4 condis removed-Add anti toxin rune and it's 3 condis every 3s for 6s for a total of 6 condis removed-Over 2m at 32s Cd is 24 condis cleared...

A FB with a skill alone Radiant recovery clear 3 condis every 2s for 8 pages is 24 condis cleared-With anti toxin is 32 condis cleared-Over 2m is 64 condi cleared

Correct me if my math is wrong but..so far I don't see how you even get close to FB

[Emberheart.8426]

Yeah, I am testing at the golem and cleansing water seems to add 1 extra condi cleanse per pulse of regen instead of 2. Overload water and healing rain already cleanse condis by themselves so the antitoxin rune already procs without needing cleansing water. It does give you an extra condi cleanse per person on flash-freeze, as long as you don't get smothering auras. If you have smothering auras, that already procs antitoxin on all the shouts by itself. Cleansing water isn't that bad of an option, but it's not needed for antitoxin runes to work. Consider it more of a bonus if you want to cleanse a bit more.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

You do realize that Firebrand is garbage at ACTUAL healing people.

If you think the numbers Firebrand can push out are high..... then you never played a proper healing build.

Tempest outhealed Firebrand before the patch by a huge margin.

L2P issue.

[God.2708]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0XqvkCM9XaFmKMxmBDmwhpDTLqAGRAYBUAKaiRgLgbWNsmWB-jlxDQBMb/BA8gAg3FE0RARlffUJIAV/JAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

Overload water -> 10 targets, 2 clears per pulse, 4 pulses. 80 Clears every 17s.Healing Rain -> 5 Targets -> 4 clears per pulse (regen + rune and skill + rune). 3 Pulses. 60 clears every 32sSwapping into water -> 5 Targets -> 2 clears -> 10 clears every 17sDodge rolling -> 5 Targets -> burn/chill + 1 clear -> 10-15 clears every 5sWindborne speed -> 5 targets -> immob/crip/chill + 1 clear -> 10-20 clears every 25sFlash Freeze -> 5 targets -> 2 clears -> 10 clears every 30sEle Bastion -> 5 targets -> 2 clears -> 10 clears every 30sSpike + frozen ground -> 5 Targets -> 2 clears -> 10 clears every 24s

From overload water and healing rain alone you are putting out almost 400 clears a minute or 6 condi clears a second.Can go to tempestous aria over invig torrents and not lose much in the way of clears and get better coverage on your heals.

If you think there is a build in the game that can match the above your crazy. 10 Target caps are broken, they are why scourges are so absurd in WvW. Overload water by itself basically matches the total clears a firebrand could hope to put out.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:You do realize that Firebrand is garbage at ACTUAL healing people.

If you think the numbers Firebrand can push out are high..... then you never played a proper healing build.

Tempest outhealed Firebrand before the patch by a huge margin.

L2P issue.

Hmm..that must explain why my server is 1.9+ K/D every week..others servers run full tempest zergs...it seems WSR runs the wrong meta, thx for the info I'll them know...so...heals on firebrand are garbage....

Hey bro..this is what a FB heal may look like http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVEQNAW5OWaIsrh1CIAgVAiAjg985/sgC-jVhXABBr8Dalgxq+To6GAY/BSB43ML-wFeel free to post your tempest build that heals for more with more efficiency...hope it doesn't take 1 week worth of reading all ele traitlines though.....

[Arheundel.6451]

@"God.2708" said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQFAWn0XqvkCM9XaFmKMxmBDmwhpDTLqAGRAYBUAKaiRgLgbWNsmWB-jlxDQBMb/BA8gAg3FE0RARlffUJIAV/JAwBw7vH4+7593f/93fvvf/9u/e3f/93LFgfzsA-w

Overload water -> 10 targets, 2 clears per pulse, 4 pulses. 80 Clears every 17s.Healing Rain -> 5 Targets -> 4 clears per pulse (regen + rune and skill + rune). 3 Pulses. 60 clears every 32sSwapping into water -> 5 Targets -> 2 clears -> 10 clears every 17sDodge rolling -> 5 Targets -> burn/chill + 1 clear -> 10-15 clears every 5sWindborne speed -> 5 targets -> immob/crip/chill + 1 clear -> 10-20 clears every 25sFlash Freeze -> 5 targets -> 2 clears -> 10 clears every 30sEle Bastion -> 5 targets -> 2 clears -> 10 clears every 30sSpike + frozen ground -> 5 Targets -> 2 clears -> 10 clears every 24s

From overload water and healing rain alone you are putting out almost 400 clears a minute or 6 condi clears a second.Can go to tempestous aria over invig torrents and not lose much in the way of clears and get better coverage on your heals.

If you think there is a build in the game that can match the above your crazy. 10 Target caps are broken, they are why scourges are so absurd in WvW. Overload water by itself basically matches the total clears a firebrand could hope to put out.

Do your math properly....and......swap into water is one trait..water reduction trait is another...good joke though xd

[Arheundel.6451]

Thank you to @Ganathar.4956 - @meb.6285 and @"Dahir.4158" for their input in this thread, I have different ideology about what should be called a "balance" class, I will never accept something that relies on gear or other gimmicks to be competitive, I shouldn't be afraid of every single small nerf coming my way , afraid of going down the trash can every single patch...on ranger I am never afraid of any nerfs because the base concept of ranged combat with evasion cannot be taken away no matter how many nerfs you apply......

I can make work current ele in many way....and all of them are gear gimmicks ..one nerf away from Oblivion, I can make great use of sword weaver but still hate it as it's a couple of nerfs away from delete status ( couple of CD nerfs on riptide and vortex and that's it)...I will always crusade for changes and I will not stand for the scraps coming from the top

With that said, I'd close the thread if possible...or if a mod see this pls...it will only attract trolls and more at this points

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:You do realize that Firebrand is garbage at ACTUAL healing people.

If you think the numbers Firebrand can push out are high..... then you never played a proper healing build.

Tempest outhealed Firebrand before the patch by a huge margin.

L2P issue.

Hmm..that must explain why my server is 1.9+ K/D every week..others servers run full tempest zergs...it seems WSR runs the wrong meta, thx for the info I'll them know...so...heals on firebrand are garbage....

Hey bro..this is what a FB heal may look like

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVEQNAW5OWaIsrh1CIAgVAiAjg985/sgC-jVhXABBr8Dalgxq+To6GAY/BSB43ML-w

Feel free to post your tempest build that heals for more with more efficiency...hope it doesn't take 1 week worth of reading all ele traitlines though.

That is not even a good firebrand build and why no utilities?

I will post a build later (im at work sorry) but soothing mist alone is like 10-11k healing per second permanent.

Firebrands job is not healing alone.Also the only good healing on Firebrand is his heal tome.

Outside of it, the healing he does is simply not worth talking about.

But hey, its you who gets outhealed by not even a good Firebrand build.

[Auburner.6945]

The only thing this patch did imo is improving Tempest's 'GvG only' spot. Other than that, it did nothing in PvE/PvP. They mentioned further buffing, but taking over 4/5 months now, and still not being done with a final state is saddening, not to mention that core and weaver have been ditched from any updates.

Not an ele patch, it's a Tempest focused patch. If you focus on 1/3 only while fully ignoring the rest, then the outcome should be certain in a shorter time. The patch was a missed opportunity for ele players and not enough for Tempest mains given it was specifically for them. Yeah we got buffs, but it's not like Tempest wasn't already known for its burst heals prior to this patch; the problems of Tempest remain the same. It's like buffing up Riptide's healing number like crazy... will that change weaver's only struggling-to-be-viable - no, it's buffing up numbers that were never related to the main issue.

I respect the buff, but if it takes almost a year to come with one third of the profession to be viable, then I won't consider it a buff, also not an 'ele' buff.

[Jasonbdj.4021]

ele is far from trash, just that people are looking/build/using it wrong. Up to your to figure it out.