so... gyros got scrapped. (pvp) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

so... gyros got scrapped. (pvp)

Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 6, 2019 in Engineer

they are all noticeably worse now, besides maybe sneak gyro in some situations.
SIGH. back to might and magic 8 lol.

EDIT
mainly about pvp

The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

Comments

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭

    My only problem with them is how the visual is some kind of weird..sprite, that you can barely see, which has made them the worst looking wells in the game compared to Necro and Chronomancer, and very hard to make out as an opponent in PvP.

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  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    I love them, though I had to change playstyle. By rotating active gyros I can get pretty much permanent superspeed, that works really fine with me.

    Maybe not as strong as they were when they could linger around you for 15 seconds, but definitely an improvement for competitive modes where they used to die too fast.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the heal and shredder were and still are not great. sneak is pretty cool I guess. the cleanse got gutted which is what made scrapper even barely worthwhile to try on lol. not to mention the poor blast gyro... its so bad now. I mean it wasn't great before but it was at least somewhat useable.

    welp.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Manuhell.2759Manuhell.2759 Member ✭✭✭

    Right now i'm not finding them very useful in WvW (Minstrel healer build). Bulwark Gyro's barrier scaling isn't that good overall, its amount isn't that high, and the duration is rather low. Purge Gyro condition cleansing isn't that good - you can heal the same amount of conditions with fumigate, except that it comes with a lower cooldown, and other skills along with it; along with a better toolbelt, too. Medic Gyro just cannot compete with Med Kit - it heals allies for 5s? pretty effect, but with the Med Kit i heal them all the time (and i get a water field from that kit as well, if needed, along with everything else it offers). Blast Gyro does give some good amount of might...but that's it. And it's something other classes already provide upon, anyway. The explosion may be nice as an unblockable CC, but 3 seconds of delay make it difficult to work with it.
    Sneak Gyro isn't bad either, but as an elite...it's lackluster. 5 pulses of 3s stealth for 5 people and a 5s smoke field for a 45s cooldown. Even the old sneak gyro had a better uptime, in that regard, and with an higher radius. I would rather keep Supply Crate slotted then - for the toolbelt, though.

    To be blunt, they're really weak utilities. Simple effects with some field added as padding, and with low durations to boot. Sure, when traited they can be a good source of super speed...but we can't stack super speed duration, and with those low gyro durations we can't afford to use them for on-demand super speed, so there isn't much of a point about it. Med Kit will still be more useful of Medic Gyro, and Super Elixir can't be compared with Purge Gyro, despite them occupying the same utility slot. I will keep using Bulwark Gyro for the toolbelt - same as i did before, except that now the main skill can also seriously injure myself instead of being an added bonus. But that's it.

  • Manuhell.2759Manuhell.2759 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    Pro tip: we weren't lacking in combo fields even before. Med Kit provides a water field as well. Elixir Gun gives a light field as well (longer, and with added healing, and the whole kit gives more condition cleanses than the gyro either way). Bomb kit even gives multiple fields (and even a blast finisher to use them with).
    Besides, fields are only useful as long as you have got finishers to use with, they don't do anything by themselves. Having too many fields is meaningless.
    That said, good luck in doing those combo in the middle of a WvW battle. It's not like we can set a priority on our fields or per field type...in that regard, finishers sure could use some work.

    Edit: "better than before" is not a great scale for comparison. They were totally useless before, except for Bulwark's toolbelt, and no one cared about them. It's not like they could end up worse - if they're still bad, people will just keep ignoring them.

  • I disagree. All I run is Scrapper. And like the gyros better now.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with the high comment. I main engineer as well (scrapper to be precise) and these gyro reworks are nothing but straight buffs and better in every way.

    Sneak Gyro will always work now, opponent can't see it, you can combo finisher it for more stealth and superspeed (5s!!!) if traited.

    Bulwark Gyro is the best gyro in the scrapper arsenal now, In case you didn't know, old bulwark gyro was multiplicative and what that basically means is that with protection on t would be granting like 9% dmg reduction at best, as long as it didn't instantly die.** The old bulwark was complete trash**. I still need to test the new gyro rework but if this picture tells me anything it's that it reduces a hell of a lot of damage from allies. (I used it with no prot or defensive abilities active so I deserved to die) Traited and hammer leap in bulwark gives 10s superspeed chained. Crazy good. If you think 10k barrier is bad... just... /jackiechanwut

    https://imgur.com/Fh7PvZW

    Purge Gyro is basically the same as before since the light field exists but it's actually reliable and works for AOE now. (IT DIDN'T BEFORE
    Blast Gyro is now the strongest? AOE launch in the entire game I believe. It's a tad underwhelming but because of the superspeed it's ok.
    Shredder Gyro. ehhhh. Don't care much.
    Medic Gyro is now basically on par with healing turret but is superior in zerg fights because the turret gets blown up instantly from AOE.

    Power scrapper is a thing that exists and is very good. Of course med kit is better on minstrels.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge gyro used to remove 1 condition from 1 player, not aoe as you would think, every 2s.

    New purge gyro removes 1 condition per second on 5 players for 5s. That is better in literally every way

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Step 1) Build a Mediscrapper like normal.

    Step 2) Slap the purge gyro on it + maybe flamethrower for a 6 sec cd blast.

    Good job! You now play the new buffed medi scrapper.

  • I don't think bulwark gyro damage redirect works. I barely take any damage in wvw
    Or is it that low?

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge gyro used to remove 1 condition from 1 player, not aoe as you would think, every 2s.

    New purge gyro removes 1 condition per second on 5 players for 5s. That is better in literally every way

    hmm didn't know that about the aoe. find it hard to believe actually. used it plenty in pvp and always noticed it cleansing condis on multiple people. still its way worse for solo play, especially trying to bunker a point in pvp. the old version removed twice as many condis, but more importantly, it did it over time so it acted as this extremely strong counter to condi. maybe too strong, but either way its definitely weaker.

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Step 1) Build a Mediscrapper like normal.

    Step 2) Slap the purge gyro on it + maybe flamethrower for a 6 sec cd blast.

    Good job! You now play the new buffed medi scrapper.

    lol. good job you've never played engi.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge gyro used to remove 1 condition from 1 player, not aoe as you would think, every 2s.

    New purge gyro removes 1 condition per second on 5 players for 5s. That is better in literally every way

    Indeed its metric ton better now. Until I also realized how purge worked I thought it was fine, but in reality it was utter kitten.

    I didnt use the shredder or blast, but the other gyros... top notch. Todays WvW is hard to truly base something on (so many PvErs) but once the mount craze dies down, i think the gyro engie will be able to compete much better and truly be usefull for smallscale support.

    What disappointed me was the field on heal gyro not being water, but then again going on cd as you pop it... that a significant cd buff.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    What disappointed me was the field on heal gyro not being water, but then again going on cd as you pop it... that a significant cd buff.

    It actually is a Water field. The tooltip is wrong. Try Blasting it and it gives you AoE healing.

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge Gyro is weaker? Now it reliably removes 5 conditions from you and allies around. Previous version would randomly pick an ally, chase them around and remove 2 conditions, getting destroyed in the process from random AoEs. And it's no cast-time too. How is that weaker?!

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    What disappointed me was the field on heal gyro not being water, but then again going on cd as you pop it... that a significant cd buff.

    It actually is a Water field. The tooltip is wrong. Try Blasting it and it gives you AoE healing.

    Can confirm, it's a spelling error.

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    I didnt use the shredder or blast, but the other gyros... top notch. Todays WvW is hard to truly base something on (so many PvErs) but once the mount craze dies down, i think the gyro engie will be able to compete much better and truly be usefull for smallscale support.

    Blast Gyro is unblockable 600-units launch and blast finisher. Speaks for itself.

    [NUKE]

  • Fade.5904Fade.5904 Member ✭✭

    I think graphically the gyros have lost some of their character but i love the changes. With the various fields certain traits are much more viable now.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge gyro used to remove 1 condition from 1 player, not aoe as you would think, every 2s.

    New purge gyro removes 1 condition per second on 5 players for 5s. That is better in literally every way

    hmm didn't know that about the aoe. find it hard to believe actually. used it plenty in pvp and always noticed it cleansing condis on multiple people. still its way worse for solo play, especially trying to bunker a point in pvp. the old version removed twice as many condis, but more importantly, it did it over time so it acted as this extremely strong counter to condi. maybe too strong, but either way its definitely weaker.

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Step 1) Build a Mediscrapper like normal.

    Step 2) Slap the purge gyro on it + maybe flamethrower for a 6 sec cd blast.

    Good job! You now play the new buffed medi scrapper.

    lol. good job you've never played engi.

    Medi Scrapper was my favorite build to run in WvW before they deleted it last balance patch.

    But i seriously don’t know what wrong with what i said.

    With this balance patch, you don’t have to change gear.
    Only one trait change from before.

    And at max 2 utility changes.

    (And why did your post not show up for me?)

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    I should clarify, I meant that im disappointed in these changes for pvp. in wvw the purge gyro seems better. blast is definitely worse. bulwark seems like it will carry scrapper now. medic seems the same. lol whirl finisher from shredder is better at cleansing then purge.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    bah, I played scrap a bit more and im fine with the changes. not with blast gyro tho.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge gyro used to remove 1 condition from 1 player, not aoe as you would think, every 2s.

    New purge gyro removes 1 condition per second on 5 players for 5s. That is better in literally every way

    Not to mention, the purge gyro used to have to literally run between different players to "boop" them and remove a condition. It was the worst kind of AI I've ever seen. This new version is way more reliable.

    @guildabd.6529 said:
    I don't think bulwark gyro damage redirect works. I barely take any damage in wvw
    Or is it that low?

    It's because it puts a fuckton of barrier on you -- that barrier eats most of the redirected damage, and I suspect the amount of redirected damage to be around 20-30%.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bah, I played scrap a bit more and im fine with the changes. not with blast gyro tho.

    Before the changes, the blast gyro was completely unreliable. It couldn't handle weird aspects of terrain, and particularly struggled with stairs (for some reason). It often would explode long before it reached the target. Now it's a reliable blast localized on the player -- in other words, it's a better version of the Big ol' Bomb.

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  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Before the changes, the blast gyro was completely unreliable. It couldn't handle weird aspects of terrain, and particularly struggled with stairs (for some reason). It often would explode long before it reached the target. Now it's a reliable blast localized on the player -- in other words, it's a better version of the Big ol' Bomb.

    well I never used it much on an enemy on a different elevation then me so I cant comment on that. experienced premature explosions maybe once or twice.

    the animation is too obvious and the cd is too high. the best thing about the old blast gyro is that you could use it at range to rupt stomps or relieve pressure on allies.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge gyro used to remove 1 condition from 1 player, not aoe as you would think, every 2s.

    New purge gyro removes 1 condition per second on 5 players for 5s. That is better in literally every way

    It used to remove 2 condis every pulse, but those pulses happened every 3 seconds. Not to mention, since gyros were targetable and had poor health, they could be just absolutely obliterated before those 3 seconds or more were up, so at most you could get off 4 conditions cleared. with this new gyro, you're able to clear 5 indefinitely with the gyro alone, on a decent cooldown.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge gyro used to remove 1 condition from 1 player, not aoe as you would think, every 2s.

    New purge gyro removes 1 condition per second on 5 players for 5s. That is better in literally every way

    It used to remove 2 condis every pulse, but those pulses happened every 3 seconds. Not to mention, since gyros were targetable and had poor health, they could be just absolutely obliterated before those 3 seconds or more were up, so at most you could get off 4 conditions cleared. with this new gyro, you're able to clear 5 indefinitely with the gyro alone, on a decent cooldown.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Purge_Gyro&oldid=1793383

    you're right, my bad. still worse in every way compared to the new gyro!

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bulwark barrier looks cool, the damage absorb from allies does not (in wvw). purge gyro is a lot weaker. purge carried scrapper hard.

    Purge gyro used to remove 1 condition from 1 player, not aoe as you would think, every 2s.

    New purge gyro removes 1 condition per second on 5 players for 5s. That is better in literally every way

    It used to remove 2 condis every pulse, but those pulses happened every 3 seconds. Not to mention, since gyros were targetable and had poor health, they could be just absolutely obliterated before those 3 seconds or more were up, so at most you could get off 4 conditions cleared. with this new gyro, you're able to clear 5 indefinitely with the gyro alone, on a decent cooldown.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Purge_Gyro&oldid=1793383

    you're right, my bad. still worse in every way compared to the new gyro!

    Definitely a significant buff, I myself am very happy with these gyro changes on Scrapper.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    the heal and shredder were and still are not great. sneak is pretty cool I guess. the cleanse got gutted which is what made scrapper even barely worthwhile to try on lol. not to mention the poor blast gyro... its so bad now. I mean it wasn't great before but it was at least somewhat useable.

    welp.

    Well the cleanse part wouldn't be that bad due to combofield synergies but the F skills still sucks.

  • I'm calling these a buff. Definitely.

    Heal Gyro: It's now in competition with Heal Turret. It recovers the same amount (5k roughly), and while it doesn't have the blast finisher and condi cleanse it does give protection in the toolbelt skill.

    Shredder Gyro: For reference, this skill is about as strong as unboosted Laser Disk. Except it has a 20 second cooldown instead of 30. This means that the gyro is now good for raw damage. Also it packs a CC in the toolbelt skill. Because of this, it has replaced Rifle Turret for my DPS slot.

    Blast Gyro: I don't have much comment, since this was used primarily for its toolbelt skill in PVP. It still works that way, but now the gryo itself grants might and has a strong knockback. That's a big step up from being utterly useless.

    Bulwark Gyro: This one is a mixed bag. The amount of barrier it grants is massive (8.6k), making it effectively a second heal button. In PVP and PVE this bonus is pretty large. However, now that the scrapper has to take the damage... makes the gyro less useful in zergs, whether they be WvW or Overworld. There are some enemies that can slam for 20k+ damage in a single hit in AoE, so if you split that with 5 other players and they all get creamed you can take upwards of 50k damage from using this skill. It is not ideal in any sense.

    Purge Gyro: It always had a niche use, but at least now it is consistent. Before it was terrible at the one thing it did, and now it is good at the one thing it did.

    Sneak Gyro: It's no longer janky and inconsistent. While the flat duration is shorter, being a smoke field means that you can now leap and blast through it to get more invisibility.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Cekay.2614Cekay.2614 Member ✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Before the changes, the blast gyro was completely unreliable. It couldn't handle weird aspects of terrain, and particularly struggled with stairs (for some reason). It often would explode long before it reached the target. Now it's a reliable blast localized on the player -- in other words, it's a better version of the Big ol' Bomb.

    well I never used it much on an enemy on a different elevation then me so I cant comment on that. experienced premature explosions maybe once or twice.

    the animation is too obvious and the cd is too high. the best thing about the old blast gyro is that you could use it at range to rupt stomps or relieve pressure on allies.

    What i noticed is the duration until the Explosion of the Blast gyro has roughly the same duration as your hammer #3 leap.
    For Example you can pop the Blast gyro and then use Hammer #3, the moment the last leap hits the gyro will explode where you are (in the enemies face because you just jumped into them) which provides a nice burst or pressure relieve on a allied downstate or something.

    "Is this a viable option though?" Dont ask me, i just noticed it is there, i need to test this a few more times.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm calling these a buff. Definitely.

    Heal Gyro: It's now in competition with Heal Turret. It recovers the same amount (5k roughly), and while it doesn't have the blast finisher and condi cleanse it does give protection in the toolbelt skill.

    Shredder Gyro: For reference, this skill is about as strong as unboosted Laser Disk. Except it has a 20 second cooldown instead of 30. This means that the gyro is now good for raw damage. Also it packs a CC in the toolbelt skill. Because of this, it has replaced Rifle Turret for my DPS slot.

    Blast Gyro: I don't have much comment, since this was used primarily for its toolbelt skill in PVP. It still works that way, but now the gryo itself grants might and has a strong knockback. That's a big step up from being utterly useless.

    Bulwark Gyro: This one is a mixed bag. The amount of barrier it grants is massive (8.6k), making it effectively a second heal button. In PVP and PVE this bonus is pretty large. However, now that the scrapper has to take the damage... makes the gyro less useful in zergs, whether they be WvW or Overworld. There are some enemies that can slam for 20k+ damage in a single hit in AoE, so if you split that with 5 other players and they all get creamed you can take upwards of 50k damage from using this skill. It is not ideal in any sense.

    Purge Gyro: It always had a niche use, but at least now it is consistent. Before it was terrible at the one thing it did, and now it is good at the one thing it did.

    Sneak Gyro: It's no longer janky and inconsistent. While the flat duration is shorter, being a smoke field means that you can now leap and blast through it to get more invisibility.

    yeah I agree with these now that im not belligerent anymore, except blast gyro is pretty lame now.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Ultima.8673Ultima.8673 Member ✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    711k heal with avataramu scrapperaction
    https://directupload.net/file/d/5383/y4cyk4br_png.htm

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