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Reaper melee, Mobility and Gap closers


James.1065

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Reaper mobility, gap closers and defences (or lack there of) makes me wonder: is this elite really intended to be a melee class.

It surprizes me that Anet discribe a Reaper as a melee orientated elite while having light armour and nothing in terms of gap closers, escapes and hard defensives (like block, extra evades, invunerbity, etc). Not to mention Reaper is probably the slowest hitting Great Sword profession in the game, with very little pay off when actually landing an attack (especially when compared to for example ranger GS, reaper feels second best - which is odd to me considering ranger should be a ranged class!)

I would like to propse to Anet 3 simple changes that I feel would go a long way to making reapers a more melee orientated elite as intended:

First and foremost, reduce all reaper GS cast times by 50%. No explaination needed if you ever tried playing with it!

Secondly buff warhorn 5 "locust swarm" to gain +66% movement speed and the locust swam aura also adds weakness in addition to cripple. Increase life force gain to 2% and set the duration of both the speed and locust swarm aura to last 15 seconds on the 30 CD. This would work well for mobility as the speed and cripple would let you chase down enemy while also acting as an escape. Weakness would be an additional defence when you are in duels (as melee elites should be in!)

Finally "Death charge" and "Grasping darkness" have their range increased to 1200 to become proper gap closers.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Why don't we go ahead and add a ground target 3 ammo 2000 range teleport to Chilled to the Bone while we're at it.

I like that idea, but i would prefer to see my shambling horrors when I cast "Rise!" to Auto-target the closest Mesmer or Deadeye charge them down and start vigorously dry humping their legs causing perma cripple and reveal!

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@sephiroth.4217 said:Reaper doesn't need it..Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

2 out of 3 skills you mentioned are the ones I said need to have their range increased.

Try using your shroud 2 or GS5 on a Warrior with rifle, Thief, Ranger or any other profession which can attack you from a range greater than 750 and see what happens.

They will skip around you at 1000 range like a broken rabbit spamming you with thier skill 1 for lols cause they know you can't get to them and you can't get away from them either.

It's pretty clear these 2 skills need their ranges increased

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In this game it's more feasible to chase targets down rather than keeping them close to you. With the amount of condi cleanses and stability or access to mobility skills which completely bypass soft CC such as criple/chill/slow, the art of chase and escape is much easier to execute. There are two quick solutions, either butcher mobility across the board, or grant more pulls and immobs to slower, less mobile classes such as necro or guardian.

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Never forget that between the original design of HoT's elite specs and now, countless balance patchs happened. Furthermore, you technically don't need mobility or even defense to be a melee spec, you just need melee fighting skills.

The current reaper isn't designed to be a "duellist", he is designed to be an unforgiving aoe bomb. Able to dish out a deadly AoE burst to anything foolish enough to enter it's range. It's a refined melee form of ANet's philosophy for the necromancer, basing most of the tools around the concept of aggression. This design isn't really original, nor is it especially fun to play, but it is a balanced designed for conquest sPvP due to it's clear strengths and weaknessess.

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@James.1065 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Reaper doesn't need it..Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

2 out of 3 skills you mentioned are the ones I said need to have their range increased.

Try using your shroud 2 or GS5 on a Warrior with rifle, Thief, Ranger or any other profession which can attack you from a range greater than 750 and see what happens.

They will skip around you at 1000 range like a broken rabbit spamming you with thier skill 1 for lols cause they know you can't get to them and you can't get away from them either.

It's pretty clear these 2 skills need their ranges increased

@sephiroth.4217 said:Reaper doesn't need it..Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

2 out of 3 skills you mentioned are the ones I said need to have their range increased.

Try using your shroud 2 or GS5 on a Warrior with rifle, Thief, Ranger or any other profession which can attack you from a range greater than 750 and see what happens.

They will skip around you at 1000 range like a broken rabbit spamming you with thier skill 1 for lols cause they know you can't get to them and you can't get away from them either.

It's pretty clear these 2 skills need their ranges increased

This is why I use Spectral Pull and obstacles for LoS...

Im a weirdo that runs Axe/Focus though so my range is just as good and it also has boon rip just so I can secure Spectral grasp then shroud up for the fear and CC followed up with a burst...

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@"James.1065" said:Reaper mobility, gap closers and defences (or lack there of) makes me wonder: is this elite really intended to be a melee class.

It surprizes me that Anet discribe a Reaper as a melee orientated elite while having light armour and nothing in terms of gap closers, escapes and hard defensives (like block, extra evades, invunerbity, etc). Not to mention Reaper is probably the slowest hitting Great Sword profession in the game, with very little pay off when actually landing an attack (especially when compared to for example ranger GS, reaper feels second best - which is odd to me considering ranger should be a ranged class!)

I would like to propse to Anet 3 simple changes that I feel would go a long way to making reapers a more melee orientated elite as intended:

First and foremost, reduce all reaper GS cast times by 50%. No explaination needed if you ever tried playing with it!

Secondly buff warhorn 5 "locust swarm" to gain +66% movement speed and the locust swam aura also adds weakness in addition to cripple. Increase life force gain to 2% and set the duration of both the speed and locust swarm aura to last 15 seconds on the 30 CD. This would work well for mobility as the speed and cripple would let you chase down enemy while also acting as an escape. Weakness would be an additional defence when you are in duels (as melee elites should be in!)

Finally "Death charge" and "Grasping darkness" have their range increased to 1200 to become proper gap closers.

what GW2 try to say to you isAdapt , move on , dont look back (AKA rerole)

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What I have learned in gw2 is that you cannot have a soul-character. In other games you have a really special character that you identify yourself with. In gw2, you need to change and adapt constanty, you cannot say that "I mastered X character with X weapons and build". Meta changes so fast. Different from other MMORPG's I played (not that much but still), when a change happens in gw2, even if it is broken, it stays that way for quite some time. You cannot communicate with devs or staff, and they do not give a turtlesbutt those issues unless it goes public in reddit or twitter. I like this game but this part of it distances itself from me.

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@"alain.1659" said:What I have learned in gw2 is that you cannot have a soul-character. In other games you have a really special character that you identify yourself with. In gw2, you need to change and adapt constanty, you cannot say that "I mastered X character with X weapons and build". Meta changes so fast. Different from other MMORPG's I played (not that much but still), when a change happens in gw2, even if it is broken, it stays that way for quite some time. You cannot communicate with devs or staff, and they do not give a turtlesbutt those issues unless it goes public in reddit or twitter. I like this game but this part of it distances itself from me.

There wouldn't be such a strong "meta" if they had more than one game mode. It pushes out build diversity.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:Reaper doesn't need it..Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

Yeah no it's not enough, not when you get into plat and are going against high mobility class that passively remove impairment effects. Never mind that applying said effects requires hitting your foe in the first place. Also reaper doesn't have immobilize access unless you are running dagger, and nobody runs dagger outside of silver.

That said in the current meta, mobility isn't Reaper's biggest problem. Reaper's biggest problem is that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. Closing gaps is meaningless when every meta class can just 1v1 brawl you.

Turns out having a non-scaling defense mechanic doesn't work well when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

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@Crinn.7864 said:

@felincyriac.5981 said:You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

yh scourge is better with FB, reaper was just left behind. How would you make it pair better with FB? Allow a % of healing through shroud? I had a crazy idea of blighters boon working on all boons (not just yours).

Though I guess we can't expect any changes, since anet is convinced all necro specs are fine in competitive. Reaper will just remain a pub stomp spec

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@felincyriac.5981 said:

@felincyriac.5981 said:You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.I had a crazy idea of blighters boon working on all boons (not just yours).This is how Blighter's Boon originally worked before being hotfixed literally 4 days after it was released. It was busted and made Reaper nearly impossible to kill. Besides, the last thing anyone in the necromancer community wants it to be forced even harder into the "must have FB" role. It's not engaging to have your effectiveness chained to being paired with a support.Though I guess we can't expect any changes, since anet is convinced all necro specs are fine in competitive. Reaper will just remain a pub stomp spec

Quick reaper fix guide:

  • Death's charge and Death Spiral are now frontal blocks.
  • Grasping Darkness is no longer negated by projectile destructs.
  • Executioner's Scythe will always apply it's stun the current target instead of picking one target at random to apply the stun to.
  • Nightfall does 50% less damage per strike but ticks every 1 second instead of every 2.
  • Chilled to the Bone cast time reduced from 1.25 to 0.75 to bring it inline with similar skills on other classes.
  • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
  • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.
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@Crinn.7864 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Reaper doesn't need it..Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

Yeah no it's not enough, not when you get into plat and are going against high mobility class that passively remove impairment effects. Never mind that applying said effects requires hitting your foe in the first place. Also reaper doesn't have immobilize access unless you are running dagger, and nobody runs dagger outside of silver.

That said in the current meta, mobility isn't Reaper's biggest problem. Reaper's biggest problem is that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. Closing gaps is meaningless when every meta class can just 1v1 brawl you.

Turns out having a non-scaling defense mechanic doesn't work well when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

I ran dagger in plat like 10 seasons ago and still run it from time to time in Gold.. Theres a decent set up there for boon corruption and sustain.

I haven't play Nec in a while though so you may be right and things may have changed but I remember that assassins reaper was absolutely insane and had no issues with any class.

according to video its been 4 months since I played Nec so a lot has changed im guessing.
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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

  • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
  • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.these last two are lol.

Gravedigger's damage is really poor for a 1.25s cast skill. There are no situations where it is actually worth using, except for the occasional dodge bait.

Cooldown resetting shroud sounds OP, but in practice it would not be, it simply insures the reaper will be able to use their tools when entering shroud. Most non-reaper players fighting against a reaper probably wouldn't even notice a difference.

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@Crinn.7864 said:

  • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
  • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.these last two are lol.

Gravedigger's damage is really poor for a 1.25s cast skill. There are no situations where it is actually worth using, except for the occasional dodge bait.

Cooldown resetting shroud sounds OP, but in practice it would not be, it simply insures the reaper will be able to use their tools when entering shroud. Most non-reaper players fighting against a reaper probably wouldn't even notice a difference.

Lol dude. While I think some of the shroud skills should have a bit shorter CD, what you are suggesting is extremely broken.

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@otto.5684 said:

  • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
  • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.these last two are lol.

Gravedigger's damage is really poor for a 1.25s cast skill. There are no situations where it is actually worth using, except for the occasional dodge bait.

Cooldown resetting shroud sounds OP, but in practice it would not be, it simply insures the reaper will be able to use their tools when entering shroud. Most non-reaper players fighting against a reaper probably wouldn't even notice a difference.

Lol dude. While I think some of the shroud skills should have a bit shorter CD, what you are suggesting is extremely broken.

A shorter cd would be a larger buff than what I am suggesting.

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@Crinn.7864 said:

  • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
  • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.these last two are lol.

Gravedigger's damage is really poor for a 1.25s cast skill. There are no situations where it is actually worth using, except for the occasional dodge bait.

Cooldown resetting shroud sounds OP, but in practice it would not be, it simply insures the reaper will be able to use their tools when entering shroud. Most non-reaper players fighting against a reaper probably wouldn't even notice a difference.

except there are two other game modes out there bro.

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@Crinn.7864 said:

That said in the current meta, mobility isn't Reaper's biggest problem. Reaper's biggest problem is that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. Closing gaps is meaningless when every meta class can just 1v1 brawl you.

Turns out having a non-scaling defense mechanic doesn't work well when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

I can't agree more, which was my reasoning behind more LF regen and additional weakness Condi added to warhorn.

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If the gap closers and pulls didn't bug out it would have been good. That stability spam on some things also ruins the point of pulls. One utility to act as circuit breaker on reaper and one 3/4 dodge on one of the twirly abilities on GS (probably when casting Nightfall or faster pulses), also a little bump in the GS trait healing with it giving its regeneration in reaper form and you are good to go.

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@Crinn.7864 said:

@felincyriac.5981 said:You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

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