Deadeye Nerf - Frustrated Player — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Deadeye Nerf - Frustrated Player

Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

We all know about the nerf to the 3s stealth, some people praise it, some people hate it and I count myself among those who hate the nerf a lot.

I come here to vent out a bit too, simply because I never felt so frustrated in pvp.
Before the changes the flow of Deadeye in PvP felt a lot better. I at least had a way to escape. (Mind you, I am using the Sniper rifle build for pvp)
The 3s stealth provided me a means to escape my certain death when enemies would surround me. It also helped me time my stealth attack, without missing out on it due to evading as many attacks as I can.
Now it's almost impossible to use a stealth attack unless you are somewhere waaaay out of sight and able to land a stealth attack.

I have to say, it was a needless change. 2s would've been better instead of 1s.

For two days I am struggling greatly in pvp as Deadeye because of these changes.

My biggest issue now is that I can't attack almost anyone unless it's a squishy Ele. All professions have endless blocks, immunities and escapes before I can even deem myself useful.
I primarily write this due to how frustrated I am because of how Engineers nail me to the ground without putting any effort!
Today it was impossible for me to be of any use to the team with either capping the points or attacking.
Engineers are impossible to counter and I may as well just stand and do nothing.

Match today:

Engineer had endless shield blocks which absolutely rendered my attacks useless.
Knocksbacks, good evades, great healing, shield, immunity.
I manage to down the engineer...what happens? Engineer knocks me back and ... resurrects, like warrior's vengeance???
Engineer downs me and runs away while Engi's little gadget finishes me off like player finisher.
Honestly...this absolutely never happened to me in PvP before and I can't help but wonder...what the hell just happened? Our entire team was being killed and massacred by two engineers.

Mind you I have never played an Engineer in PvP, but this is outright crazy.

This makes me bring up a question:
Why nerf Deadeye's stealth which helped us at least stay alive? We are meant to be silent snipers who are going out of sight and trying to keep distance from their foes. Now it's impossible to escape.
With this we at least should've got some compensation in terms of defense for Rifle Deadeye.
Why are we being nerfed instead of professions which have endless counters to so many mechanics/skills?

I'm sorry I just had to vent out a bit. This truly pulled my strings and made me just want to quit entirely. x_x'

<1

Comments

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You can't think of any reason Anet nerfed stealth? have you played anything BUT thief in PVP? Have you ever played against a stealth thief as a non-thief player?

    In any game I've ever played, classes that can stealth and burst kill at their leisure are just cancer, and this game is no exception.

    Honestly I hated PvP up until Deadeye got introduced, which is the concept I finally liked.
    To answer your question: No. I have not played any other class in PvP except Thief. (A Necromancer when the game came out but I soon quit PvP and focused primarily on PvE)
    Now that I finally found some fun in PvP I stumbled upon this nerf which absolutely crippled Deadeye's survivability and just made me not have fun anymore.

    And I agree @DragonSlayer.1087 some compensation was needed for this, instead I feel that Deadeye now falls behind many, many professions in normal PvP matches. I find myself unable to escape/survive/cap points. The 1s on stealth is horrible, primarily due to revealed debuff later too.
    There's no 'perma' stealth uptime in normal PvP matches where you are constantly on a fast paced battle and in need to react really fast.
    I don't like WvW nor do I play it, I speak mainly of normal PvP matches. This is pure madness with Deadeye's lack of survival now... :/

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Well, I think it's safe to say your perspective here is limited and biased then. Sure we all like to get the easy wins but ... like I said, that's not what makes for a good competitive environment. If you want to win on Deadeye, your going to have to adapt, which is expected for any player worth his salt in MMO competitive game modes.

    There's no need to be so sharp?
    I'd like you to re-read me.
    Deadeye needed something to compesnate for the lack of stealth now. A buff to survival, something to help the Deadeye stay away. It's a bloody sniper, we have to stay back somehow and avoid our enemies.
    Now it's really hard to keep distance from melee attackers and stay alive, especially with the massive buffs to Engineers now which are absolutely anti-rifle Deadeye now.

    I never said I wanted an easy win, I just want a way to be able to survive and not rendered useless in team fights. Every profession has some good buffs and counters to specific mechanics, Deadeye falls behind a lot now.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2019

    I don't think that makes sense ... Anet balancing the game isn't a zero sum game. You don't (and shouldn't) get compensated for OP effects that get nerfed. The overall general health of PVP/WvW has been improved because of these changes.

    If Deadeye falls A LOT behind now because of some stealth changes, that simply indicates stealth was as broken a mechanic as everyone suspected to begin with. I still don't think we have enough time for the meta to settle in to conclude Deadeye is severely deficient and to be honest, based on your limited PVP experience, I'm not sure you would be the objective voice of reason to provide it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think that makes sense ... Anet balancing the game isn't a zero sum game. You don't (and shouldn't) get compensated for OP effects that get nerfed. The overall general health of PVP/WvW has been improved because of these changes.

    If Deadeye falls A LOT behind now because of some stealth changes, that simply indicates stealth was as broken a mechanic as everyone suspected to begin with. I still don't think we have enough time for the meta to settle in to conclude Deadeye is severely deficient and to be honest, based on your limited PVP experience, I'm not sure you would be the objective voice of reason to provide it.

    Obtena...you really like to argue and go absolutely offensive don't you?

    That said...
    Rifle Deadeye thief...what chance does the Rifle Deadeye thief stand against many professions now? In normal PvP matches, not WvW.
    It's hard to keep distance now, the evade gun skill should've at least been a bit buffed to provide us with solid escape if anything.
    A lot of professions counter our attacks with decent blocks, healing, immunities and evades, which ends up starving us off of our initiative; it also messes up the Mark which starves you off of Malice.
    I am not sure if you are familiar with Deadeye's mechanics, but right now it does play a bit crippled due to lack of escape and proper survival.
    I am fine with nerfing stealth as long as Rifle gains some decent buff to keep us alive a wee bit longer.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    not every spec is in a good/viable spot.
    many people do not like to fight against the old rifle deadeye, so thats a reason for it to become more of a 'fun' build. play it if you enjoy it, but dont expect optimal results.
    it will be easier to get better results on a more efficient spec, if you have a basic understanding of the games mechanics. so you may try some builds that are better in current meta if contributing is an important factor to your fun.

    i also did love to play old rifle deadeye. but since patch i only been playing core s/d (spvp) and scrapper (WvW), because i simply dont want to play with rifle in its current state.

    @Blur.3465 said:
    It's hard to keep distance now, the evade gun skill should've at least been a bit buffed to provide us with solid escape if anything.

    wish that skill actually was an evade.

  • Gatvin.6510Gatvin.6510 Member ✭✭

    I just came back from a month or so break to check on the patch:
    Sweet! New WvW mounts!
    Sweet! Nerfs to Mesmer! FINALLY
    Oh another heavy nerf to deadeye. Guess I can quit until they figure out what they want here.

    Having played both thief and non-thief in PvP, I can easily say rifle-based Deadeye is the hardest build I've ever played. Most other classes, I can wander into a combat and groove my way through the fight, kill some people, defend or res a teammate, hold a point etc. No can do with rifle. Most of those tasks are impossible. When your opponent isn't distracted, they can and will take you apart. You need to mete out your defensive skills very carefully as each one is a precious resource. We don't have blocks, we don't have barrier, we don't have invluns or special evades, clones or pets. All we have is damage, distance and stealth. If you use them VERY well, you MIGHT kill your opponent 1v1. A duo will just stomp you and move on to your other 4 teammates. How is this weapon supposed to be fun? Why should I even bother now? I admit I'm far from perfect, but one shouldn't have to be PERFECT to play a spec.

    Also, zero utility in WvW zerg STILL.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2019

    @Blur.3465 said:
    I primarily write this due to how frustrated I am because of how Engineers nail me to the ground without putting any effort!

    It has always been that way for thieves with engineers. Can't remember any time in the last 6 years when engineers could not sustain a thief. I am saying sustain and not kill because every thief can run away when picking the right utilities.

    So your rant is more about one of your since forever counters (the other one is guardian) and less about the stealth on dodge mechanic (which btw. shouldn't even exist).

  • Urejt.5648Urejt.5648 Member ✭✭✭

    Accept that deadeye is complete garbage now. Accept that only way to play now is core sd or dp. There is no other way. I feel your pain because i played only deadeye. But hey, if we dont find alternative we dont have to play gw2 any more. There is chess, armada 2, apex and so on.

    rifle is garbage since stealth on dodge nerf
    ~~* SEASON XII - TOP 12 EU RIFLE GOD! updated

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2019

    I completely agree with you guys.
    Deadeye is far from perfect and far from easiest spec to play.
    There are many flaws surrounding it and now these flaws will come to light even more with the lack of 'escape'/survivability that offered 3s stealth with dodge.
    Mark will get messed up sometimes if it gets blocked or if the target simply runs away. Sure you can refresh it but same thing can happen again, which leaves the Deadeye in a bad position with no malice gained at all.
    Intiative gets spent way too fast and it regenerates super slow in PvP; so basically when we fire off our skill 3 and if enemy blocks it or evades...we are starved of our initiative.
    Our Stealth attack often gets blocked and countered as well.
    We sometimes end up not attacking our main target if it's crowded. Rifle will always hit the first person, so if someone's 'in front' of your target you'll hit that person instead and not generate any malice again.

    We have a clunky mechanic that can be countered by way too many factors, we have no proper self-defense, we have no AoE, we have no 'clones', no pets, no immunities, we have no survivability options, no condition damage, we have to kneel and go immobile if we want increased range and damage, our single target damage gets countered very easily due to it being projectiles and we have no means of escape now unless we ditch some of our useful utility skills and replace it with stealth...
    So Deadeye Rifle was far from being perfect and an experienced player will know how to counter us very easily, but at least we had a way to escape with the 3s stealth. Now you can't even make a single step and the enemy is already upon you.

    People complain about perma stealth for Rifle Deadeye yet d/p or d/d Deadeye can still very much go perma stealth without issues and perform way better than Rifle.

    Like I said, I am fine with the stealth nerf as long as Deadeye gains some buff for it, as right now it is a joke. You can't hold off on your own and in 1v1 you are pretty much doomed unless people don't know how to counter you.

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Blur.3465 said:
    I primarily write this due to how frustrated I am because of how Engineers nail me to the ground without putting any effort!

    It has always been that way for thieves with engineers. Can't remember any time in the last 6 years when engineers could not sustain a thief. I am saying sustain and not kill because every thief can run away when picking the right utilities.

    So your rant is more about one of your since forever counters (the other one is guardian) and less about the stealth on dodge mechanic (which btw. shouldn't even exist).

    I speak of the recently buffed Scrapper which is indeed proving to be a bane to almost every other profession now.
    I was fine with Engis before. You could actually ignore them and move on with other targets. This, however, is pure insanity now.
    A tool that 'finishes' you like player finisher? Shields, blocks, mobility, immunity, condi damage and when downed they can also resurrect again?
    No profession should be able to hold off 3-4 people on its own.
    Now I can't even ignore them because they are on me in blink of an eye and I have no ways to escape them if my shadow step is on cooldown. My 1s stealth is in no way useful now as I can't even make a single step away from enemy in 1s...and then there's the revealed debuff.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2019

    @Blur.3465 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think that makes sense ... Anet balancing the game isn't a zero sum game. You don't (and shouldn't) get compensated for OP effects that get nerfed. The overall general health of PVP/WvW has been improved because of these changes.

    If Deadeye falls A LOT behind now because of some stealth changes, that simply indicates stealth was as broken a mechanic as everyone suspected to begin with. I still don't think we have enough time for the meta to settle in to conclude Deadeye is severely deficient and to be honest, based on your limited PVP experience, I'm not sure you would be the objective voice of reason to provide it.

    Obtena...you really like to argue and go absolutely offensive don't you?

    That said...
    Rifle Deadeye thief...what chance does the Rifle Deadeye thief stand against many professions now? In normal PvP matches, not WvW.
    It's hard to keep distance now, the evade gun skill should've at least been a bit buffed to provide us with solid escape if anything.
    A lot of professions counter our attacks with decent blocks, healing, immunities and evades, which ends up starving us off of our initiative; it also messes up the Mark which starves you off of Malice.
    I am not sure if you are familiar with Deadeye's mechanics, but right now it does play a bit crippled due to lack of escape and proper survival.
    I am fine with nerfing stealth as long as Rifle gains some decent buff to keep us alive a wee bit longer.

    I just think it's presumptuous for someone to come out this strong with so little experience. I don't doubt you are having the problems you are experiencing but the solution isn't going to be Anet compensating you; it never has been for anyone else. You get choice for a reason; to adapt. It sounds to me like you didn't explore the choices you have available to address some of your problems. You should, because that's why they exist.

    If it's still trash, then it's trash; no all Especs excel in every game mode; some suck in some game modes. It's not like Thief is deficient in good builds for PVP.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Compensation is one of many solutions ... and it's not one we see Anet provide. Better set your sights on something else.

    I'm not saying Deadeye isn't in need of a buff, but it's not likely going to come in the form of compensation with the goal of getting it's status back for PVP. That's just not how we see things work in this game.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Compensation is one of many solutions ... and it's not one we see Anet provide. Better set your sights on something else.

    I'm not saying Deadeye isn't in need of a buff, but it's not likely going to come in the form of compensation with the goal of getting it's status back for PVP. That's just not how we see things work in this game.

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Compensation is one of many solutions ... and it's not one we see Anet provide. Better set your sights on something else.

    I'm not saying Deadeye isn't in need of a buff, but it's not likely going to come in the form of compensation with the goal of getting it's status back for PVP. That's just not how we see things work in this game.

    Again, Anet has compensated for nerfs immideatly plenty of times before. It is something they do. Unfortunately, thief is a class that Anet doesnt seem to be very fond of, getting constant unneccessary (and in fact, counterproductive) nerfs for no reason. It seems they are adamant to make sure that if a thief gets into a 1v1 against another class, no matter how good the thief is, they are going to lose.

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blur.3465 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Blur.3465 said:
    I primarily write this due to how frustrated I am because of how Engineers nail me to the ground without putting any effort!

    It has always been that way for thieves with engineers. Can't remember any time in the last 6 years when engineers could not sustain a thief. I am saying sustain and not kill because every thief can run away when picking the right utilities.

    So your rant is more about one of your since forever counters (the other one is guardian) and less about the stealth on dodge mechanic (which btw. shouldn't even exist).

    I speak of the recently buffed Scrapper which is indeed proving to be a bane to almost every other profession now.
    I was fine with Engis before. You could actually ignore them and move on with other targets. This, however, is pure insanity now.
    A tool that 'finishes' you like player finisher? Shields, blocks, mobility, immunity, condi damage and when downed they can also resurrect again?
    No profession should be able to hold off 3-4 people on its own.
    Now I can't even ignore them because they are on me in blink of an eye and I have no ways to escape them if my shadow step is on cooldown. My 1s stealth is in no way useful now as I can't even make a single step away from enemy in 1s...and then there's the revealed debuff.

    Your description of Scrapper makes it clear you don't have the first idea about how scrappers work. Are they a bit over-buffed right now? Sure, but Sent is aware and already working on it. Instead of spouting nonsense though, perhaps actually put in a bit of effort to understand what you are talking about.

    For instance, was this Scrapper running pistol or hammer? Most likely hammer, which makes me wonder where your condi damage comment comes from. As for those shield , blocks, and immunities, most are bringing 1 block from hammer, 1 projectile destruction dome from gyro toolbelt, and 1significant barrier from the same gyro.

    From your description of this Scrapper, sounds like he ran with hammer. I highly doubt he sacrificed elixir gun, and from the sound of it he also took bulwark gyro. The ability to rez himself means he took elixir r as his 3rd utility, and threw the elixir at his feet before going down. This means that he did not take elixir s, meaning he has no immunity. Also, the tool that finishes you is simply the scrapper's class mechanic, the function gyro.

    Just take a minute and check out metabattle.com, make an Engineer and toy with it in the mists. Make an attempt to understand something before ranting about if you want to be taken seriously.

    Doc Von Doom

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blur.3465 said:

    Now it's almost impossible to use a stealth attack unless you are somewhere waaaay out of sight and able to land a stealth attack.

    Isn't it the point of being a sniper?

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shaogin.2679 said:

    @Blur.3465 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Blur.3465 said:
    I primarily write this due to how frustrated I am because of how Engineers nail me to the ground without putting any effort!

    It has always been that way for thieves with engineers. Can't remember any time in the last 6 years when engineers could not sustain a thief. I am saying sustain and not kill because every thief can run away when picking the right utilities.

    So your rant is more about one of your since forever counters (the other one is guardian) and less about the stealth on dodge mechanic (which btw. shouldn't even exist).

    I speak of the recently buffed Scrapper which is indeed proving to be a bane to almost every other profession now.
    I was fine with Engis before. You could actually ignore them and move on with other targets. This, however, is pure insanity now.
    A tool that 'finishes' you like player finisher? Shields, blocks, mobility, immunity, condi damage and when downed they can also resurrect again?
    No profession should be able to hold off 3-4 people on its own.
    Now I can't even ignore them because they are on me in blink of an eye and I have no ways to escape them if my shadow step is on cooldown. My 1s stealth is in no way useful now as I can't even make a single step away from enemy in 1s...and then there's the revealed debuff.

    Your description of Scrapper makes it clear you don't have the first idea about how scrappers work. Are they a bit over-buffed right now? Sure, but Sent is aware and already working on it. Instead of spouting nonsense though, perhaps actually put in a bit of effort to understand what you are talking about.

    For instance, was this Scrapper running pistol or hammer? Most likely hammer, which makes me wonder where your condi damage comment comes from. As for those shield , blocks, and immunities, most are bringing 1 block from hammer, 1 projectile destruction dome from gyro toolbelt, and 1significant barrier from the same gyro.

    From your description of this Scrapper, sounds like he ran with hammer. I highly doubt he sacrificed elixir gun, and from the sound of it he also took bulwark gyro. The ability to rez himself means he took elixir r as his 3rd utility, and threw the elixir at his feet before going down. This means that he did not take elixir s, meaning he has no immunity. Also, the tool that finishes you is simply the scrapper's class mechanic, the function gyro.

    Just take a minute and check out metabattle.com, make an Engineer and toy with it in the mists. Make an attempt to understand something before ranting about if you want to be taken seriously.

    I can say what I saw, I don't need to know the exact names of skills the profession I never played in PvP uses.
    The Scrapper running the Hammer build, the other Engineer was running the immunity skill.

    It is true they are a little over-buffed now, specifically as Engineer always seemed to be doing fine in PvP due to utilities and all the goodies it has in its arsenal.
    Now I don't see your point for being offensive and negative here to begin with? You have Engi knowledge, that's good, thanks for stating the names of skills and how it works; it answers how powerful and fun they are in PvP now and gives a clearer image on what they use to resurrect and finish you off without approaching you.

    The whole point here is that Deadeye has nothing to defend itself with. I am fine with 0 stealth honestly, as long as we gain decent things to keep us alive and out of direct fight, a way to escape.

    @MyPuppy.8970 Exactly. That's the point of sniper, only that now the sniper has no ways to keep distance when the fight heats up. Deadeye needs more things to keep distance from enemies. Stealth was one way of getting out of sight, but with that gone the Deadeye is stripped naked.
    It needs something to be a bit more viable in actual PvP matches.

    Mind you, I understand the frustration the players get when they get sniped out of nowhere, instead of adding stealth the Deadeye should get some other means and tools of defense in PvP.
    It is the only playstyle I truly enjoy in PvP. I did play as Daredevil d/p and Deadeye d/d with permastealth and I did not like the style. I do not like melee in PvP and I prefer keeping my distance; Deadeye was exactly the style I liked, but it is a little difficult now to stay alive and get out of the heated fights.
    The lack of cleave/aoe is also bad and in multi-target fights you will fall behind; Initiative gets spent too easily and you find yourself auto attacking for a while until it piles up, it happens that you waste initiative if a player evades or blocks your attacks too.

    As mentioned, for experienced players, Deadeye represents very little challenge if they know how it works, attacks can easily be evaded, blocked and Deadeye is a squish after that.
    I had no difficulties killing Rifle Deadeyes with my D/D Perma Stealth Deadeye build. They were my juiciest target along with Eles :P

  • Arioch.4810Arioch.4810 Member ✭✭✭

    RIfle still works, go for revealed training to up the damage (if you did not ran it already)
    I love my thief, i play him as core S/D - i would play deadeye now in similar way, decapping and going for +1 on rifle. (+1 on rifle should be good, because range)

    Toning down stealth length is a good way to lessen NPE we are often accused of.
    As long as shortbow#5 exsist i dont see us getting damage back :/

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    After another PvP match run for daily today, this is the score I managed to achieve with Rifle Deadeye:

    gw220.jpg

    This is exactly what happens when the teams ignore Deadeye. I was untouched in the match and I literally had clear aim without anyone focusing me.
    Needless to say, we also had a good team but they had a stronger set-up than us.
    Regardless of stealth nerf people will still complain how 'OP' Deadeye is and ask for more nerfs. Had people focused me I would've been in a very bad spot; like in a couple of previous games where I had literally all teams chasing after me and killing me swiftly which frustrated me; but these people knew how to counter Deadeye.

    It pretty much comes down to countering the Deadeye and knowing what to do. With the lack of stealth we are easy targets, but if we are untouched we will shine.

  • bennypig.6428bennypig.6428 Member ✭✭✭

    Take shadow arts if you wants longer stealth. You cant just keep long stealth uptime and keep your critical strike traitline now.
    D/P Dash takes 9 ini to gain 3s stealth.

  • Gatvin.6510Gatvin.6510 Member ✭✭

    @Blur.3465 said:
    After another PvP match run for daily today, this is the score I managed to achieve with Rifle Deadeye:

    gw220.jpg

    This is exactly what happens when the teams ignore Deadeye. I was untouched in the match and I literally had clear aim without anyone focusing me.
    Needless to say, we also had a good team but they had a stronger set-up than us.
    Regardless of stealth nerf people will still complain how 'OP' Deadeye is and ask for more nerfs. Had people focused me I would've been in a very bad spot; like in a couple of previous games where I had literally all teams chasing after me and killing me swiftly which frustrated me; but these people knew how to counter Deadeye.

    It pretty much comes down to countering the Deadeye and knowing what to do. With the lack of stealth we are easy targets, but if we are untouched we will shine.

    Essentially you're saying that Deadeye is OP if your opponents are blind or bad at targeting, but folds when they actually interact with you. Saying you've got the best kill speed on goldfish isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of a build's balance.

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    You can't think of any reason Anet nerfed stealth? have you played anything BUT thief in PVP? Have you ever played against a stealth thief as a non-thief player?

    In any game I've ever played, classes that can stealth and burst kill at their leisure are just cancer, and this game is no exception.

    I have and its not as easy as people make it out to be and they pretty much broke the spec and the class in wvw. Just like if you want to use sword or even use rifle without shadow arts its impossible to use any stealth attacks because you come out of stealth now before you can even use them. In wvw though its more about not getting killed by 50+ people all trying to focus you. So what they did is catered to all the novice players so they didn't have to learn how to fight a thief.

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gatvin.6510 said:

    @Blur.3465 said:
    After another PvP match run for daily today, this is the score I managed to achieve with Rifle Deadeye:

    gw220.jpg

    This is exactly what happens when the teams ignore Deadeye. I was untouched in the match and I literally had clear aim without anyone focusing me.
    Needless to say, we also had a good team but they had a stronger set-up than us.
    Regardless of stealth nerf people will still complain how 'OP' Deadeye is and ask for more nerfs. Had people focused me I would've been in a very bad spot; like in a couple of previous games where I had literally all teams chasing after me and killing me swiftly which frustrated me; but these people knew how to counter Deadeye.

    It pretty much comes down to countering the Deadeye and knowing what to do. With the lack of stealth we are easy targets, but if we are untouched we will shine.

    Essentially you're saying that Deadeye is OP if your opponents are blind or bad at targeting, but folds when they actually interact with you. Saying you've got the best kill speed on goldfish isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of a build's balance.

    Oh absolutely I agree. There are huge issues with the build and playstyle and I am saying that people will still complain that Deadeye is OP and ask for nerf without even knowing how to counter it (and it's super easy to counter Deadeye now after nerf... -.- ). I am certain that most of the complaints come from people who don't know how the build plays in the first place.
    I struggle big time when I get swarmed and even engaged in 1v1. I can't even properly revive my team members without getting downed soooo yeah...
    If you are lucky and untouched you will shine (as I said), but if you get a team which knows how to target you - you will want to quit the game XD

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    There was no reason for the last nerf because of how wvw now has automatic/passive ways to mark/reveal plus I am not sure if anet realizes this after harping on it for so many years. Where they do not want a class or spec to be completely different from one game mode to another. So take in consideration the trick and trap, watchtower, sentries, all the things that existed prior to these, and the change to be blocked and removing the burst from the rifle. You basically have 3 deadeye specs the one that originally existed, the reworked one, and the reworked one that is nerfed into the ground, incinerated by nuke, then rolled over by a train, and finally sucked down into a black hole.

    Although I have come across so many people even with these nerfs they still die so easily because of how long anet let the whole condi necro problem go on for they became dependent on passive abilities to play for them. So nothing anet does to nerf it is ever going to help them until you make it where thieves can't use traits or weapons. Usually these types of players their reaction is to just bring more people to get killed and then its broken when you outplay them. So if you say yes stealth is broken its broken in your favor now where you can just throw something in my direction to remove most of the core functions of a thief. Although there aren't any consumables like this that are so targeted to one class other than thief. I just find it counter productive to make a class, then 2 specs, which daredevil they broke a little bit but still somewhat usable, and then now deadeye was made and reworked just for them to nerf it to a point worse than the original was designed. Although you have these ppl that are complaining about mounts and complaining about being ganked. Although the more bad players whine about thieves the more nerfs they will impose just on the thief class. It would have been nice if when thieves were complaining about necro instant condi death builds that they would have nerfed necro like this it would have kept a lot of players still playing this game. So in the end these players just want to turn players with skill in this game into target dummies so they can finallly kill something.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief as a whole will never be at a spot line withe majority of other classes. Due to its mechanics and playstyles it is the class that produces the most salty players and constant thief op cries even when their garbage tier in most engagement scenarios these days the cries will keep coming. That combined with arena net not knowing much about their game,how each class players in each mode,and wanting to appease the masses thief will always struggle.just reroll another class like a lot of players have.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    Tried some ranked games recently on my DE. I use rifle + some other weapon (Dp, sword pistol, sometimes sword dagger). It's been a godawful painful experience. Still zero chance against condi mirage because core thief crutches on the stolen skill Resistance to have a chance, my burst tickles (especially after I get to enjoy thief's super strong 'mobility' where I have to use the same resource my damage skills use to get around and no more Lead Attacks). I can't even run away anymore unless I reserve all resources for it...and then I might as well just not engage in the first place. First time this has ever happened, one of my ranked team members asked if I could play something 'actually useful'.

    Death's Retreat is still painful to use (hello rapidly trying to detarget and it somehow...not, so I end up 'retreating' several times into a wall)

    I'm seeing tons more DD staff thieves though...so I guess folks can enjoy fighting those xD

    It would be nice if anet had a clear vision for thief on what they're supposed to be good at. Aside from whimpering and dying, of course.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    Haha yeah problem is thief as a whole is garbage nowadays,arenanet and the community cries have destroyed it. Trust me most players are happy about it to. You have one half of thief players trying to actually skillfully engage and fight other players and are constantly getting squished like a annoying bug and the other half constantly use mechanics due to above reasons such as stealth burst backstabs etc which create salt and resulting in a large sum of the community calling thief (and u cant change their mind no matter how underperforming thief gets) out as op and eventually arenanet caves and pushes thieves further into the ground. This just way it is,no point even looking at the spec these days unless u want to try to stealth burst someone over and over which is boring as hell or Be in a constant disengage every fight lol

  • getalifeturd.8139getalifeturd.8139 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Haha yeah problem is thief as a whole is garbage nowadays,arenanet and the community cries have destroyed it. Trust me most players are happy about it to. You have one half of thief players trying to actually skillfully engage and fight other players and are constantly getting squished like a annoying bug and the other half constantly use mechanics due to above reasons such as stealth burst backstabs etc which create salt and resulting in a large sum of the community calling thief (and u cant change their mind no matter how underperforming thief gets) out as op and eventually arenanet caves and pushes thieves further into the ground.This just way it is,no point even looking at the spec these days unless u want to try to stealth burst someone over and over which is boring as hell or Be in a constant disengage every fight lol

    Well said. Just goes to show spelling and punctuation doesn't mean kitten if the person actually knows what's really going on behind the scenes. It's like most players have post traumatic stress disorder about thieves in the past and think they're still as overpowered today. I guess if they don't play thief they don't know how hard it's got just to survive fights nowadays let alone win them.

  • @MUDse.7623 said:
    not every spec is in a good/viable spot.
    many people do not like to fight against the old rifle deadeye, so thats a reason for it to become more of a 'fun' build. play it if you enjoy it, but dont expect optimal results.
    it will be easier to get better results on a more efficient spec, if you have a basic understanding of the games mechanics. so you may try some builds that are better in current meta if contributing is an important factor to your fun.

    i also did love to play old rifle deadeye. but since patch i only been playing core s/d (spvp) and scrapper (WvW), because i simply dont want to play with rifle in its current state.

    @Blur.3465 said:
    It's hard to keep distance now, the evade gun skill should've at least been a bit buffed to provide us with solid escape if anything.

    wish that skill actually was an evade.

    Agreed. I loved the old Deadeye more than the new one. The patient game was relatively interesting. And if the opposing player was smart, they would do something to flush the deadeye out.

    On top of that, the old deadeye favored good positioning far more, so you attacked from akward angles or high up so people couldn't get to you. And it was the only thief spec that had something to offer in team fights. More meaningful than venoms you didn't spec for.

    But unfortunately, after all the nerfs to thiefs damage to promote deadeye, I guess... The nerf to rifle. The improper handling of a trait nerf... Which at this point they shoulf just change the stupid thing to something else. Like bring back his support ability... The nerfs to DD unhindered combat and pulmonary impact...

    I just play core S/D. Its the only thing that didn't get completely kitten... Oh wait.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah stealth is just one of thiefs tricks that has been spread out amount other classes rendering them redundant. Mobility,ports,stealth and quick bursts are all done aswell if not better on every other class. Mirage and soulbeast have basically the mobility of thief but more sustain and dps,mesmer and ranger have stealth and sneak gyro makes scrapper better at stealth than thief. Almost all classes can out dps a thief of the thief isn’t starting the burst with a backstab. Their literally almost to the point where other classes will be better at +1 and decapping if that already hasn’t happened lol arenanet might as well cave all the way and delete thief and make a whole new rouge class.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seems like u have to use ur brain now before u reveal urself? Oh I feel so sorry for u :(
    Only way of making DE viable and non cancerous is rework of stealth

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    When a major trait is so overwhelming that some people define the viability of the entire spec based on this trait, then this trait need to be brought down. And that's what happened.

    The issue is that as much as the OP hate fighting the current scrapper, a lot of other professions also hated fighting against the build that the OP mourn. Stealth riffle DE was unfun to play against, nobody can deny this simple fact.

    There are other way to play deadeye/thief that can totally be competitive. Yes those ways doesn't imply that you will be able to one shot from stealth players that happen to enter the range (1200/1500) of your riffle. But I'm positif that those "way" are a lot more healthy for the game as a whole than this build that you enjoyed to play. With each balance patch, all professions have a need to tweek at their builds to remain competitive.

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    When a major trait is so overwhelming that some people define the viability of the entire spec based on this trait, then this trait need to be brought down. And that's what happened.

    The issue is that as much as the OP hate fighting the current scrapper, a lot of other professions also hated fighting against the build that the OP mourn. Stealth riffle DE was unfun to play against, nobody can deny this simple fact.

    There are other way to play deadeye/thief that can totally be competitive. Yes those ways doesn't imply that you will be able to one shot from stealth players that happen to enter the range (1200/1500) of your riffle. But I'm positif that those "way" are a lot more healthy for the game as a whole than this build that you enjoyed to play. With each balance patch, all professions have a need to tweek at their builds to remain competitive.

    Unfortunately, this is nothing I spoke of.
    I never mentioned I cried out for one-shotting people with a rifle; realistically I can still do it if people are careless of Deadeye.
    The issue here is that Deadeye lacks survivability and is really bad when it comes to holding cap points, reviving team members or even holding up against others in 1v1.
    Stealth provided means of escape, now escape is really hard and Deadeye has little to no defense at all; while other professions shine with that mostly.

    What I keep proposing in all my posts is a compensation and a rework of Deadeye to allow us to sustain ourselves in a fight.
    Our skills starve us of our initiative and people can easily dodge these skills and counter us if they know how to do it properly.
    I delight in PvP when I see a Deadeye as it's so easy to kill them now. I am playing a d/d Deadeye build with perma stealth now and laughing as to how easy it is to get rid of Deadeye Rifle...

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    I play scrapper. Had a DE 1 shot me at plat lvl. Was pretty surprised to be blind sighted even with this nerf. Granted I wasn't paying attention and my passive was used.

    He managed to be out of sight most of the time. Had him on my team the game after. Top dmg top kills.

    I totally understand it's hard. But apparently there are just good players who can still use it. I played DE all last season. Could not do it now. Just die way too much. I guess I am one of those unskillful players.

    Just play something else tbh. Seems to be how this game works. Was mirage last season. Now it's something else.

  • I find that the players that complain the most about stealth, are players that enjoy the non stealth classes the most. Funny right?

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blur.3465 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    When a major trait is so overwhelming that some people define the viability of the entire spec based on this trait, then this trait need to be brought down. And that's what happened.

    The issue is that as much as the OP hate fighting the current scrapper, a lot of other professions also hated fighting against the build that the OP mourn. Stealth riffle DE was unfun to play against, nobody can deny this simple fact.

    There are other way to play deadeye/thief that can totally be competitive. Yes those ways doesn't imply that you will be able to one shot from stealth players that happen to enter the range (1200/1500) of your riffle. But I'm positif that those "way" are a lot more healthy for the game as a whole than this build that you enjoyed to play. With each balance patch, all professions have a need to tweek at their builds to remain competitive.

    Unfortunately, this is nothing I spoke of.
    I never mentioned I cried out for one-shotting people with a rifle; realistically I can still do it if people are careless of Deadeye.
    The issue here is that Deadeye lacks survivability and is really bad when it comes to holding cap points, reviving team members or even holding up against others in 1v1.
    Stealth provided means of escape, now escape is really hard and Deadeye has little to no defense at all; while other professions shine with that mostly.

    What I keep proposing in all my posts is a compensation and a rework of Deadeye to allow us to sustain ourselves in a fight.
    Our skills starve us of our initiative and people can easily dodge these skills and counter us if they know how to do it properly.
    I delight in PvP when I see a Deadeye as it's so easy to kill them now. I am playing a d/d Deadeye build with perma stealth now and laughing as to how easy it is to get rid of Deadeye Rifle...

    You are just dodging what I say and put the word you want to hear in my mouth.

    What I say is that the DE isn't a single build that depend on a single major trait. Explore other options if you are unsatisfied with an option that's been nerfed, don't just lay there unwilling to change when things have already changed. The deadeye don't lack survivability it got access to the whole survivability tools of the core thief and stealth is merely the tip of the iceberg when it come to survivability tools for the thief.

    The issue when I read you is that you seem to think that the riffle deadeye don't have a mean of defense, however range is already a mean of defense. Objectively, there is no need for more defense on riffle than there already is, especially you have a weapon swap and you can thus freely switch onto a melee weaponset which can be defensive or offensive.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    I find that the players that complain the most about stealth, are players that enjoy the non stealth classes the most. Funny right?

    I play mainly thief and imo stealth in gw2 is trash mechanic, that needs rework

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2019

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    I find that the players that complain the most about stealth, are players that enjoy the non stealth classes the most. Funny right?

    I play mainly thief and imo stealth in gw2 is trash mechanic, that needs rework

    Explain in detail what about stealth in gw2 is trash and then how it should be reworked.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • omgdracula.6345omgdracula.6345 Member ✭✭✭

    It is good that it got nerfed since DE was garbage before the nerf and now is straight up garbage. Any game the enemy had a DE thief was an insta win. Just attack them once and they run off and do 0 for their team. Easy farm.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    I find that the players that complain the most about stealth, are players that enjoy the non stealth classes the most. Funny right?

    I play mainly thief and imo stealth in gw2 is trash mechanic, that needs rework

    Explain in detail what about stealth in gw2 is trash and then how it should be reworked.

    Absolutely no counterplay to it, if u get into stealth u can only get revealed, which can be done by few classes. Stealthed guy can jump right after ur back, he can run away or he can run in circles, while u have to press dodge in the right moment to avoid nuke out of nowhere. Once someone gets into stealth he's completyl out of reach.
    There are many solutions on forum. Imo the best ones are: the same in wow, if someone is close in front of u, he becomes partly visible to u. This one is from lol: if stealthed guy is hit, there are visible particles around him. There are way more good solutions, that would give counterplay, and wouldn't make stealth completely useless.
    Rn stealth promotes lazy and interactive gameplay, and silent scope nerfs was definitely move in good direction

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blur.3465 said:
    It's a bloody sniper, we have to stay back somehow and avoid our enemies.

    don't spend all your initiative in one go.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Retreat

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Gundam Style.8495 said:
    I find that the players that complain the most about stealth, are players that enjoy the non stealth classes the most. Funny right?

    I play mainly thief and imo stealth in gw2 is trash mechanic, that needs rework

    Explain in detail what about stealth in gw2 is trash and then how it should be reworked.

    Absolutely no counterplay to it, if u get into stealth u can only get revealed, which can be done by few classes. Stealthed guy can jump right after ur back, he can run away or he can run in circles, while u have to press dodge in the right moment to avoid nuke out of nowhere. Once someone gets into stealth he's completyl out of reach.
    There are many solutions on forum. Imo the best ones are: the same in wow, if someone is close in front of u, he becomes partly visible to u. This one is from lol: if stealthed guy is hit, there are visible particles around him. There are way more good solutions, that would give counterplay, and wouldn't make stealth completely useless.
    Rn stealth promotes lazy and interactive gameplay, and silent scope nerfs was definitely move in good direction

    I disagree that stealth in this game is trash, the mechanic itself is some of the most fun stealth play that's fluid with the action of our visual skills. I agree that stealth needs counterplay, or that it needs to be regulated so that there's not as much need for heavy and sustained counterplay. Stealth should be balanced with the rest of the game but not reworked into some stale outdated mechanics from other games.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stealth in its current form and the long duration available to thief along with DE itself will continually hurt the thief class as a whole. Is what it is,won’t change

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2019

    Daredevil D/P or Core Thief is now literally the only build that CAN be of use in normal PvP arenas. I loathe WvW so I'm not even using it for comparison.

    Match today:
    I start capping the point, Guardian one shots me. Yep, one shots me. This was also the case with Mesmers in previous matches - they ambush you and literally ONE SHOT you.
    Warrior bumps into me and keeps going after me for 1v1, can't kill the warrior, he cuts through me like butter.
    I keep my range while trying to pick their team off one by one, I get instantly pulled into the fray. I use Shadow Step to escape, but I get pulled back in again.
    Ranger Soulbeast finds me in mid-field while going for the cap points...kills me.
    Later I down that ranger but he downs me too and then revives with the help of pet to finish me off.
    I back away and target their mesmer on the way to the cap point : As we know Mesmer summons all those clones, gets my health to 0. I down mesmer, clones finish me, mesmer revives.

    I stand behind what I say because of the experiences I am having with Deadeye.
    It should be the only build that can stand toe-to-toe with others as it is focused on DPS and not the 'mobile/running build', but that's not possible if you end up in an experienced team.
    You can shine as Deadeye with an opposing team that knows 0 about how to counter you; otherwise you're in a bad, bad spot.

    EDIT: Less frustrating and more revarding to play Deadeye D/D with most of the stealth skills to give you perma stealth :P I regret returning to Deadeye Rifle for today's match.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just 1 thing, that made me stop reading and treating ur post serious

    @Blur.3465 said:

    Match today:
    I start capping the point...

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Just 1 thing, that made me stop reading and treating ur post serious

    @Blur.3465 said:

    Match today:
    I start capping the point...

    Naturally you have to do it if your team isn't doing it :P but it's fine, you don't have to treat the post seriously.

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