Lack of Solo End-Game — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Lack of Solo End-Game

Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭
edited March 10, 2019 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

I loved PoF. I consumed the whole of Personal Story, then Living Story 3, then Living Story 4... Each took me a day to complete. After that I worked on the Griffon mount, which took me less than a day. All in all, it was the most dedicated I had been to a game in years. But then... I stopped. I had begun to lose interest and started playing less and less... What could it be? Well, after some thinking, I was able to pinpoint the problem: the lack of solo end-game content.

Now don't get wrong: this game is one of the most solo-friendly MMORPGs on the market. The problem isn't that there isn't solo content -- it's that none of it is at end-game. The only options the solo player has at end game are Living World, which is a few hours' worth of content every 90 days, and map completion. Things that require a group are: dungeons, sPvP, WvW, Fractals, Raids and World Bosses.... so most of what is available at end-game. So while journeying through Personal Story and other first-timer content is an experience rife with possibilities, there isn't much to do alone once one reaches the end game, if one is to not start over.

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Comments

  • Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @Linken.6345 said:
    What about world bosses and map meta events?
    You can do them without being in group with anyone.

    You /can/ do them without a group, but you /will/ run into people who want to do them just as much as you do!

  • Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @MrRuin.9740 said:
    I think you may be in a minority. I don't think too many people buy an MMO expecting an in depth solo experience as they tend to be built around the 'massively multiplayer' part.

    Guild Wars was described by its own developers as a "non-MMO." I've come to expect certain things from that, one of which is that this game be much more solo-friendly than other MMORPGs. Yes, at end-game too.

  • AlexxxDelta.1806AlexxxDelta.1806 Member ✭✭✭

    GW2 is one of the most solo-friendly MMOs out there though. I don't like instanced group content too much and this is one of the few games that gives me a plethora of other stuff to keep me busy, at least for a time.

  • Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    GW2 is one of the most solo-friendly MMOs out there though. I don't like instanced group content too much and this is one of the few games that gives me a plethora of other stuff to keep me busy, at least for a time.

    Like what?

  • Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @MrRuin.9740 said:
    Ah, false expectations based on something from a decade or so ago. Gotcha.

    They did go back to their decades old roots with Elona this expansion; I just don't understand why we don't have more solo content at end-game. It's pretty obviously lacking.

  • AlexxxDelta.1806AlexxxDelta.1806 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mortifera.6138 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    GW2 is one of the most solo-friendly MMOs out there though. I don't like instanced group content too much and this is one of the few games that gives me a plethora of other stuff to keep me busy, at least for a time.

    Like what?

    As others said map metas and world bosses, also collection hunting if that's your thing, although I do find them lacking lately. I get that you don't consider metas and bosses to be true solo content, but that would be impossible to do since these are overworld encounters.

    I would like more solo narrative content too but that's too much to expect from an mmo. With the exception of maybe SWTOR , most mmos are pretty much the same in that aspect.

  • trev.1045trev.1045 Member ✭✭✭

    I am not a fan of instanced content, but i think on an MMO it is to be expected you will do things with other people.

    For a purely solo experience, think this is not the right genre personally

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    End game solo content is the only thing that is coming out on steady and predictable basis. There are arguably more LWS content than anything anything else for dedicated fractal/raid runners, or PvPers and WvWers.

  • Illconceived Was Na.9781Illconceived Was Na.9781 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @Mortifera.6138 said:

    @MrRuin.9740 said:
    Ah, false expectations based on something from a decade or so ago. Gotcha.

    They did go back to their decades old roots with Elona this expansion; I just don't understand why we don't have more solo content at end-game. It's pretty obviously lacking.

    They did not go back to their decades-old roots with Elona; they returned to the continent and tied up loose ends in the lore. GW2 as played in Elona is still GW2; it has no additional similarities to GW1 mechanically than the rest of the game.


    Regardless, most Dungeons (including fractals) are, in fact, solable. It takes more skill than in GW1, sometimes a lot more. There are some spots that require multi-person mechanics and some that can't be done easily outside of a subset of professions.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Wubbbi.8172Wubbbi.8172 Member ✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    Calling an MMORPG out for the lack of Solo-Engame content is ... interesting!

    Btw, all Story-Content, from personal story up to LS4 EP5 are solo content. And if you ask me, this IS your solo content. If that is too easy for you, you can always run dungeons or even raids solo. (Raids will be impossible tho!). There are some videos where people solo dungeons. If you feel the urge to do it, then go for it.

  • The Champion Bounties are meant to be a possible solo challenge, as they're effectively "champ on demand".

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Have you cosidered soloing fractals and dungeons? Running solo in wvw is another option.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blur.3465 said:
    In any case, I support OP and I truly hope we do get some content that can be done solo or with a group depending on our choice.

    Joining in on this sentiment, I'd also add that the content should be repeatable with meaningful rewards (doesn't have to be gold, unique skins preferred).

    I've also always wondered why some people are "against" the idea of solo-content in a MMORPG, citing the "massively", yet they defend instanced content like dungeons / fractals / raids. 5-10 man groups aren't something i'd describe as "massively", it's more or less something i'd expect in a lobby-based game, like PoE, GW1 and even shooters like CSGO, Battlefield and Overwatch.

  • trev.1045trev.1045 Member ✭✭✭

    @Adul.1520 said:
    Adding a solo mode to raids (with reduced/different rewards) would be a good way to add high-quality, repeatable, rewarding soloable end-game content.

    And the great thing about it is that they wouldn't need to develop it from scratch, since they could reuse maps, story, lore, voice acting, art assets, etc. from the 10-man versions.

    It certainly wouldnt do any harm to have the option

    I like the events and casual grouping that occurs

    But i am all for people being able to play how they wish

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    Although I have more fun doing challenging things in a group (raid, fractals,...) I would not mind for a hard solo activity. ESO has a petty fun solo "raid" that resets daylie. But OP should be more specific what s/he mean with endgame. When I read arguments of worldbosses and meta events, clearly different people have different opinions what endgame means.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    What about world bosses and map meta events?
    You can do them without being in group with anyone.

    Those are so isignificantly easy you can target the boss with autoattack and come back after 3 minutes.
    Did you know the fire elemental has attacks he hasn’t used since the introduction of megaservers. Not once

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Jethro.9376Jethro.9376 Member ✭✭✭
    1. I didn't read all of this
    2. You want solo content? Run daily dungeons. There are enough of them and you can make decent coin.
  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Translation:

    "Dear AnrenaNet:
    There are other people playing your game. Plz nerf."

    Reductio ad absurdum

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    What about world bosses and map meta events?
    You can do them without being in group with anyone.

    Those are so isignificantly easy you can target the boss with autoattack and come back after 3 minutes.
    Did you know the fire elemental has attacks he hasn’t used since the introduction of megaservers. Not once

    Yea I did know that been here since head start that fire elemental would wipe out whole maps.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Queen's Gauntlet was loved when it was introduced because it was solo challenging content. Powercreep made it quite a bit of a laugh, even the new tier added. But all the same, I find it odd ArenaNet has not done more content like it.

    As it is, the only real solo "end-game" we get is the Living World instances, Queen's Gauntlet, and SAB. I would not be opposed to more challenging content. I tend to find the LW bosses too easy, even when people complain that they're too hard (e.g., Caudecus, Eater of Souls).

  • Adul.1520Adul.1520 Member ✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    People want challenging content designed and intended to be done solo. Not group content that they do solo as a bonus challenge.

    This is not GW2. If players are looking for this type of content, then they should look to other games that focus on it.

    Well, as it's been pointed out, GW2 already has challenging content intended for solo play, such as SAB, Queen's Gauntlet and LW bosses/achievements. It's just that some of us want more of it.

    Edit: ninja'd.

  • i'd love a solo mode for Fractals

  • Puma.3645Puma.3645 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    ive experience this with every mmo ive played though(lotro, tera, gw2)(lack of endgame content, more about fashion for your character). except im not quite done with ffxiv yet. only at level 50 there. and they have a new expansion coming out. my suggestion is to just leave and come back every few months for updates. i dont think Mmos were developed to be played every day and not get stagnant.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    The only daily content which I believe fits the OP's request would be the daily sunken treasure hunt. Or doing the buried treasure meta in desert highlands.

    I am thinking that they could readjust the bandit bounties to be elites rather than champions, and then that would also qualify as daily solo content.

    Though some people can already solo them, so there's that.

    Because GW2 happens in open maps, it's just too easy to design the challenging content around groups rather than for single players.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    hmmm... why play a MMO if you are only after solo experience?

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Adul.1520 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    hmmm... why play a MMO if you are only after solo experience?

    A lot of people do. MMORPGs have different player types that want to get different experiences out of their games. Most MMOs have a very large "explorer" population—players who tend to stick to soloable objectives and exploration, stuff they can do alone at their own pace. They typically don't like to play game modes that require organized grouping. GW2 caters to every player type but is especially welcoming to explorers, which means that a large portion of the playerbase prefers to do soloable content (or group content that requires little to no organization).

    a lot of the end-game contents were already soloable long before power creep came in, it's just how good you are

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    People want challenging content designed and intended to be done solo. Not group content that they do solo as a bonus challenge.

    This is not GW2. If players are looking for this type of content, then they should look to other games that focus on it.

    Who says that "this is not GW2"? We already have a bunch of solo content, mainly the main story. We also have, as I mentioned in my first post, things like Queen's Gauntlet and SAB which are both designed with solo gameplay in mind (Queen's Gauntlet being only solo'able).

    Solo content exists in GW2, yet solo content is "not GW2"?

    My point was that my understanding was that GW2 was not designed to be so heavily invested in solo content, because it is a MMO. Yes, there is content that can be solo run, as you've clearly shown, but such content is not the norm. Personal story is a way to progress into the MMO areas of the map. I don't believe that it was intended to be replayable for being solo content otherwise the game would be marketed as such.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Adul.1520Adul.1520 Member ✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @Adul.1520 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    hmmm... why play a MMO if you are only after solo experience?

    A lot of people do. MMORPGs have different player types that want to get different experiences out of their games. Most MMOs have a very large "explorer" population—players who tend to stick to soloable objectives and exploration, stuff they can do alone at their own pace. They typically don't like to play game modes that require organized grouping. GW2 caters to every player type but is especially welcoming to explorers, which means that a large portion of the playerbase prefers to do soloable content (or group content that requires little to no organization).

    a lot of the end-game contents were already soloable long before power creep came in, it's just how good you are

    At the end of my last post where I said "soloable content", I really meant "content designed for solo play". My bad, I should have been more exact with my wording.

  • just farm winterberries forever

  • Griever.8150Griever.8150 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm a solo player. My end game is SPvP and fractals. Yes both involve other players but require no commitment, just some basic communication skills. Seems to be fair enough in an MMORPG.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    While most people are confused at "solo content" in an MMO, we have to remember that GW2 is essentially a single player MMO. You never have to group up with anybody to do a large majority of the content and that is one of the main reasons why I have been playing it for the past 6 years. While you have the downsides of a rather "anti-social" experience that doesn't encourage doing group content it is also a neat thing to be able to achieve basically everything on your own.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • zityz.6089zityz.6089 Member ✭✭

    Bring back Heroes. They can only be used in Fractals, Dungeons, Raids, story mode stuff.
    It would be nice for them to have added dungeons to the PoF and HoT with added story stuff as well.

    I hope they do bring back mini dungeons. They're great content for people who don't have the time to get into raids.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is already solo content, group content that doesn't require an explicit grouping and also group content that does require an explicit group.

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    The only daily content which I believe fits the OP's request would be the daily sunken treasure hunt. Or doing the buried treasure meta in desert highlands.

    If those count then both Bitterfrost Frontier and Dry Top are better versions of them.

  • To be honest I some how agree with you but not fully I played this game from launch and they were some serious down times for getting bored of the end game . I mean og WB are not a solo thing neither any other raid fractal wvw pvp and so on but the point i thing is not the solo end game is more like the reward of it if you play in a farminf pve group you probably be ok because of the reward for ex. gold and mats . I personally believe that is not a solo problem but more of the reward any of the game optiosn you have will give you many useless rewards that by the end of the day you will salvage them and 9 times out of 10 your inventory is full of them ! If you check on othe mmo even if you do a simple WB you can get a huge amount of gold and a good weapon/armor rewards ! In gw2 this happens rarely only in tequatl and in triple trouble and raids ! So again i believe that is not the fact that you play solo is more like you know what you will expect of the game after yo do a specific event.

  • mercury ranique.2170mercury ranique.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I see up and downsides to adding more solo game content.
    An MMORPG is about cooperation and playing together with others. It is what defines the genre by definition. This doesn't make it a good thing.
    I was there at GW1 when they prepped it for the release of GW1 and the decrease of the playerbase. They added support of 7 heroes, making a lot more content solo-able in a friendly way.
    In many games I have seen the concept that when something can be done solo, most people will prefer to do so.
    This says a lot about the existensial crisis in the Massive Multiplayer online part of the genre, but the same goes for the roll playing part of the name.

    Having said that....The genre is more then what the name implies. Both the MMO and the RP part of the games are nothing more then niches in what defines it. More important is the gameplay, the way of story telling, the fantasy genre and extensive lore involved.

    I think this can not be really solved in the concept of GW2 as scaling and balancing is too complicated yet.
    I would like to see a system of machine learning being released on a scaling and balancing. This so any encounter (instanced, open world, event or random trashmob) is scaled based on AI meassering the players participating and adjusting this when it changes, but to make this work, you would need a re-design of the entire environment. Till then it will be a matter of choice and that is always hurtfull to a part of the community.

  • Yamazuki.6073Yamazuki.6073 Member ✭✭✭

    I suppose it's due to having a partner, but I personally prefer group content that can be soloed. When I want to solo I can, but when she's on (or friends) we can do it together. Content that can only be soloed always feels terrible for me now.

  • thehipone.6812thehipone.6812 Member ✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    hmmm... why play a MMO if you are only after solo experience?

    Because I like playing a game with other people around, but I REALLY hate wasting my available game time looking for a group, waiting for a healer, finally getting a group and having someone go "BRB smoke break" and just wasting everyone's time.

    On the original topic - "fashion wars" and chasing rare drops are solo-able (or solo-able enough) endeavors. I include joining map metas in there too because you mainly just show up at the designated time. But it isn't necessary to just be a zergling. PoF seems designed for the solo player or small group of friends. The events that drop the profession minis are all soloable and offer a chance at rare/valuable drops. Chests, champ bags, and even some random events/mobs give unique stuff. Junundu Rising meta is soloable and easily completed in a group of 3 to 5 as long as you start with the awakened fort first.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thehipone.6812 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    hmmm... why play a MMO if you are only after solo experience?

    Because I like playing a game with other people around, but I REALLY hate wasting my available game time looking for a group, waiting for a healer, finally getting a group and having someone go "BRB smoke break" and just wasting everyone's time.

    well... that's why Anet flushed Mhenlo and his teacher Master Togo down the toilet :lol:

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mortifera.6138 said:
    I loved PoF. I consumed the whole of Personal Story, then Living Story 3, then Living Story 4... Each took me a day to complete. After that I worked on the Griffon mount, which took me less than a day. All in all, it was the most dedicated I had been to a game in years. But then... I stopped. I had begun to lose interest and started playing less and less... What could it be? Well, after some thinking, I was able to pinpoint the problem: the lack of solo end-game content.

    Now don't get wrong: this game is one of the most solo-friendly MMORPGs on the market. The problem isn't that there isn't solo content -- it's that none of it is at end-game. The only options the solo player has at end game are Living World, which is a few hours' worth of content every 90 days, and map completion. Things that require a group are: dungeons, sPvP, WvW, Fractals, Raids and World Bosses.... so most of what is available at end-game. So while journeying through Personal Story and other first-timer content is an experience rife with possibilities, there isn't much to do alone once one reaches the end game, if one is to not start over.

    Yeah, but I think the GW2 Personal Story / Living Story is rather unique, at least compared to other MMOs ive played like WoW, LoTRO or D&D. It does eventually get to an end though, but I don't know if it's reasonable to expect otherwise? It is an MMO afterall, but as you said, this is an MMO that allows solo players to do pretty much anything. You don't even need to join a party or squad for anything other than dungeons/fractals. You can jump in to any meta, any bounty, any map dynamic event, any world boss.

    If you are dead set against playing with anyone else, it does really limit your options, but you can still find things to do solo. Map completion, achievement farming, jumping puzzles, farming/crafting, leveling multiple different characters will keep you pretty busy. But in the end you will run out of new content for solo players because this isn't a single player game....but unlike single player games, this one keeps getting new content added to it, and you can replay it multiple times from multiple perspectives. I've logged over 1000hrs in the 13months I've played GW2, and I can only think of perhaps 2 single players game that saw me rack up as much time. Not bad value for a $60 purchase imo.

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