Reaper melee, Mobility and Gap closers — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Reaper melee, Mobility and Gap closers

James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
edited March 7, 2019 in PVP

Reaper mobility, gap closers and defences (or lack there of) makes me wonder: is this elite really intended to be a melee class.

It surprizes me that Anet discribe a Reaper as a melee orientated elite while having light armour and nothing in terms of gap closers, escapes and hard defensives (like block, extra evades, invunerbity, etc). Not to mention Reaper is probably the slowest hitting Great Sword profession in the game, with very little pay off when actually landing an attack (especially when compared to for example ranger GS, reaper feels second best - which is odd to me considering ranger should be a ranged class!)

I would like to propse to Anet 3 simple changes that I feel would go a long way to making reapers a more melee orientated elite as intended:

First and foremost, reduce all reaper GS cast times by 50%. No explaination needed if you ever tried playing with it!

Secondly buff warhorn 5 "locust swarm" to gain +66% movement speed and the locust swam aura also adds weakness in addition to cripple. Increase life force gain to 2% and set the duration of both the speed and locust swarm aura to last 15 seconds on the 30 CD. This would work well for mobility as the speed and cripple would let you chase down enemy while also acting as an escape. Weakness would be an additional defence when you are in duels (as melee elites should be in!)

Finally "Death charge" and "Grasping darkness" have their range increased to 1200 to become proper gap closers.

<1

Comments

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Reaper doesn't need it..
    Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Reaper doesn't need it..
    Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

    2 out of 3 skills you mentioned are the ones I said need to have their range increased.

    Try using your shroud 2 or GS5 on a Warrior with rifle, Thief, Ranger or any other profession which can attack you from a range greater than 750 and see what happens.

    They will skip around you at 1000 range like a broken rabbit spamming you with thier skill 1 for lols cause they know you can't get to them and you can't get away from them either.

    It's pretty clear these 2 skills need their ranges increased

  • Rodzynald.5897Rodzynald.5897 Member ✭✭✭

    In this game it's more feasible to chase targets down rather than keeping them close to you. With the amount of condi cleanses and stability or access to mobility skills which completely bypass soft CC such as criple/chill/slow, the art of chase and escape is much easier to execute. There are two quick solutions, either butcher mobility across the board, or grant more pulls and immobs to slower, less mobile classes such as necro or guardian.

    Casual friendly and quality pvp - these two do not work well together.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Never forget that between the original design of HoT's elite specs and now, countless balance patchs happened. Furthermore, you technically don't need mobility or even defense to be a melee spec, you just need melee fighting skills.

    The current reaper isn't designed to be a "duellist", he is designed to be an unforgiving aoe bomb. Able to dish out a deadly AoE burst to anything foolish enough to enter it's range. It's a refined melee form of ANet's philosophy for the necromancer, basing most of the tools around the concept of aggression. This design isn't really original, nor is it especially fun to play, but it is a balanced designed for conquest sPvP due to it's clear strengths and weaknessess.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Reaper doesn't need it..
    Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

    2 out of 3 skills you mentioned are the ones I said need to have their range increased.

    Try using your shroud 2 or GS5 on a Warrior with rifle, Thief, Ranger or any other profession which can attack you from a range greater than 750 and see what happens.

    They will skip around you at 1000 range like a broken rabbit spamming you with thier skill 1 for lols cause they know you can't get to them and you can't get away from them either.

    It's pretty clear these 2 skills need their ranges increased

    @James.1065 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Reaper doesn't need it..
    Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

    2 out of 3 skills you mentioned are the ones I said need to have their range increased.

    Try using your shroud 2 or GS5 on a Warrior with rifle, Thief, Ranger or any other profession which can attack you from a range greater than 750 and see what happens.

    They will skip around you at 1000 range like a broken rabbit spamming you with thier skill 1 for lols cause they know you can't get to them and you can't get away from them either.

    It's pretty clear these 2 skills need their ranges increased

    This is why I use Spectral Pull and obstacles for LoS...

    Im a weirdo that runs Axe/Focus though so my range is just as good and it also has boon rip just so I can secure Spectral grasp then shroud up for the fear and CC followed up with a burst...

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:
    Reaper mobility, gap closers and defences (or lack there of) makes me wonder: is this elite really intended to be a melee class.

    It surprizes me that Anet discribe a Reaper as a melee orientated elite while having light armour and nothing in terms of gap closers, escapes and hard defensives (like block, extra evades, invunerbity, etc). Not to mention Reaper is probably the slowest hitting Great Sword profession in the game, with very little pay off when actually landing an attack (especially when compared to for example ranger GS, reaper feels second best - which is odd to me considering ranger should be a ranged class!)

    I would like to propse to Anet 3 simple changes that I feel would go a long way to making reapers a more melee orientated elite as intended:

    First and foremost, reduce all reaper GS cast times by 50%. No explaination needed if you ever tried playing with it!

    Secondly buff warhorn 5 "locust swarm" to gain +66% movement speed and the locust swam aura also adds weakness in addition to cripple. Increase life force gain to 2% and set the duration of both the speed and locust swarm aura to last 15 seconds on the 30 CD. This would work well for mobility as the speed and cripple would let you chase down enemy while also acting as an escape. Weakness would be an additional defence when you are in duels (as melee elites should be in!)

    Finally "Death charge" and "Grasping darkness" have their range increased to 1200 to become proper gap closers.

    what GW2 try to say to you is
    Adapt , move on , dont look back (AKA rerole)

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @alain.1659 said:
    What I have learned in gw2 is that you cannot have a soul-character. In other games you have a really special character that you identify yourself with. In gw2, you need to change and adapt constanty, you cannot say that "I mastered X character with X weapons and build". Meta changes so fast. Different from other MMORPG's I played (not that much but still), when a change happens in gw2, even if it is broken, it stays that way for quite some time. You cannot communicate with devs or staff, and they do not give a turtlesbutt those issues unless it goes public in reddit or twitter. I like this game but this part of it distances itself from me.

    There wouldn't be such a strong "meta" if they had more than one game mode. It pushes out build diversity.

  • felincyriac.5981felincyriac.5981 Member ✭✭✭

    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • felincyriac.5981felincyriac.5981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    yh scourge is better with FB, reaper was just left behind. How would you make it pair better with FB? Allow a % of healing through shroud? I had a crazy idea of blighters boon working on all boons (not just yours).

    Though I guess we can't expect any changes, since anet is convinced all necro specs are fine in competitive. Reaper will just remain a pub stomp spec

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2019

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Reaper doesn't need it..
    Spectral Pull, shroud 2, GS5, chills, cripples and immobilized should be enough without needing a gap closer.

    Yeah no it's not enough, not when you get into plat and are going against high mobility class that passively remove impairment effects. Never mind that applying said effects requires hitting your foe in the first place. Also reaper doesn't have immobilize access unless you are running dagger, and nobody runs dagger outside of silver.

    That said in the current meta, mobility isn't Reaper's biggest problem. Reaper's biggest problem is that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. Closing gaps is meaningless when every meta class can just 1v1 brawl you.

    Turns out having a non-scaling defense mechanic doesn't work well when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    I ran dagger in plat like 10 seasons ago and still run it from time to time in Gold.. Theres a decent set up there for boon corruption and sustain.

    I haven't play Nec in a while though so you may be right and things may have changed but I remember that assassins reaper was absolutely insane and had no issues with any class.


    according to video its been 4 months since I played Nec so a lot has changed im guessing.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    these last two are lol.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    these last two are lol.

    Gravedigger's damage is really poor for a 1.25s cast skill. There are no situations where it is actually worth using, except for the occasional dodge bait.

    Cooldown resetting shroud sounds OP, but in practice it would not be, it simply insures the reaper will be able to use their tools when entering shroud. Most non-reaper players fighting against a reaper probably wouldn't even notice a difference.

    Lol dude. While I think some of the shroud skills should have a bit shorter CD, what you are suggesting is extremely broken.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    these last two are lol.

    Gravedigger's damage is really poor for a 1.25s cast skill. There are no situations where it is actually worth using, except for the occasional dodge bait.

    Cooldown resetting shroud sounds OP, but in practice it would not be, it simply insures the reaper will be able to use their tools when entering shroud. Most non-reaper players fighting against a reaper probably wouldn't even notice a difference.

    Lol dude. While I think some of the shroud skills should have a bit shorter CD, what you are suggesting is extremely broken.

    A shorter cd would be a larger buff than what I am suggesting.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    these last two are lol.

    Gravedigger's damage is really poor for a 1.25s cast skill. There are no situations where it is actually worth using, except for the occasional dodge bait.

    Cooldown resetting shroud sounds OP, but in practice it would not be, it simply insures the reaper will be able to use their tools when entering shroud. Most non-reaper players fighting against a reaper probably wouldn't even notice a difference.

    except there are two other game modes out there bro.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    That said in the current meta, mobility isn't Reaper's biggest problem. Reaper's biggest problem is that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. Closing gaps is meaningless when every meta class can just 1v1 brawl you.

    Turns out having a non-scaling defense mechanic doesn't work well when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    I can't agree more, which was my reasoning behind more LF regen and additional weakness Condi added to warhorn.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    If the gap closers and pulls didn't bug out it would have been good. That stability spam on some things also ruins the point of pulls. One utility to act as circuit breaker on reaper and one 3/4 dodge on one of the twirly abilities on GS (probably when casting Nightfall or faster pulses), also a little bump in the GS trait healing with it giving its regeneration in reaper form and you are good to go.

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    If the gap closers and pulls didn't bug out it would have been good. That stability spam on some things also ruins the point of pulls. One utility to act as circuit breaker on reaper and one 3/4 dodge on one of the twirly abilities on GS (probably when casting Nightfall or faster pulses), also a little bump in the GS trait healing with it giving its regeneration in reaper form and you are good to go.

    That is also a problem, but their range surly needs to be bumped up. I mean guardian true shot range just went from 1200 to 1500, try GS 5 that on a reaper!

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    >

    In my opinion the theme has become out dated with all the power creep and mobility/defence buffs given to other professions in the number of blances patches.

    This has exaggerated the problem of a themed slow moving low mobility Reaper. Because of this, Reaper's lack of mobility creates another problem that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. In others words although the theme is good and damage is fine, not having mobility to get to opponents fast enough to put them under pressure combined with only having a non-scaling defense mechanic (Shroud) doesn't work well on higher levels of sPvP when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    You need a ton more skill to play Reaper well enough to get the same results as a scourge. Only on low levels like sliver and maaaaybe gold Reapers can wade into a team fight and wreck everyone. The reason is all the enemy of the team fight need to be right next to you, CC'ed and with ALL thier defensives blown for you to inflict any kind of damage, or they just need to simply avoid the wells.

    This means 75% of all professuons can stand out of your range withour fear of you being able to get to them, or get away from them while they focus you down. There is a reason why everyone targets the Reaper at mid: no defenses outside shroud (Which can be blasted from 100% -0 in a matter of seconds when focused by 2-3 enemy, and no way to escape after that.

    Reapers are the literal "sitting duck" of the game

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    >

    In my opinion the theme has become out dated with all the power creep and mobility/defence buffs given to other professions in the number of blances patches.

    This has exaggerated the problem of a themed slow moving low mobility Reaper. Because of this, Reaper's lack of mobility creates another problem that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. In others words although the theme is good and damage is fine, not having mobility to get to opponents fast enough to put them under pressure combined with only having a non-scaling defense mechanic (Shroud) doesn't work well on higher levels of sPvP when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    You need a ton more skill to play Reaper well enough to get the same results as a scourge. Only on low levels like sliver and maaaaybe gold Reapers can wade into a team fight and wreck everyone. The reason is all the enemy of the team fight need to be right next to you, CC'ed and with ALL thier defensives blown for you to inflict any kind of damage, or they just need to simply avoid the wells.

    This means 75% of all professuons can stand out of your range withour fear of you being able to get to them, or get away from them while they focus you down. There is a reason why everyone targets the Reaper at mid: no defenses outside shroud (Which can be blasted from 100% -0 in a matter of seconds when focused by 2-3 enemy, and no way to escape after that.

    Reapers are the literal "sitting duck" of the game

    Reapers have some ranged attacks with axe though, and these attacks are quiet strong especially axe 2. I think because reaper has so much access to ranged weapons that it doesn't have all the mobility other classes have, for example; Revenant has great mobility because it doesn't have ranged attacks (not counting attacks with 450 range ranged). Guardian has some shadowstep mobility because it neither has much access to ranged attacks and so on.

    Giving reapers mobility would make them nearly impossible to disengage from as they'll be able to keep up with you whilst spamming axe or something like that

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @James.1065 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    >

    In my opinion the theme has become out dated with all the power creep and mobility/defence buffs given to other professions in the number of blances patches.

    This has exaggerated the problem of a themed slow moving low mobility Reaper. Because of this, Reaper's lack of mobility creates another problem that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. In others words although the theme is good and damage is fine, not having mobility to get to opponents fast enough to put them under pressure combined with only having a non-scaling defense mechanic (Shroud) doesn't work well on higher levels of sPvP when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    You need a ton more skill to play Reaper well enough to get the same results as a scourge. Only on low levels like sliver and maaaaybe gold Reapers can wade into a team fight and wreck everyone. The reason is all the enemy of the team fight need to be right next to you, CC'ed and with ALL thier defensives blown for you to inflict any kind of damage, or they just need to simply avoid the wells.

    This means 75% of all professuons can stand out of your range withour fear of you being able to get to them, or get away from them while they focus you down. There is a reason why everyone targets the Reaper at mid: no defenses outside shroud (Which can be blasted from 100% -0 in a matter of seconds when focused by 2-3 enemy, and no way to escape after that.

    Reapers are the literal "sitting duck" of the game

    Reapers have some ranged attacks with axe though, and these attacks are quiet strong especially axe 2. I think because reaper has so much access to ranged weapons that it doesn't have all the mobility other classes have, for example; Revenant has great mobility because it doesn't have ranged attacks (not counting attacks with 450 range ranged). Guardian has some shadowstep mobility because it neither has much access to ranged attacks and so on.

    Giving reapers mobility would make them nearly impossible to disengage from as they'll be able to keep up with you whilst spamming axe or something like that

    You do know that both Revenant and Gaurdiuan have access to bows and axes of which have the same and in some cases more range than a Reaper, but still have the mobility you mentioned. In fact guardian true shot hits you up to 1500 range.

    Furthermore, high mobility classes like Ranger, theif and warrior all have ranged wepons of 1200 or more.

    So I don't think your arguments make any sense that reaper has axe 2 *range 900) so shouldn't have mobility.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @James.1065 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    >

    In my opinion the theme has become out dated with all the power creep and mobility/defence buffs given to other professions in the number of blances patches.

    This has exaggerated the problem of a themed slow moving low mobility Reaper. Because of this, Reaper's lack of mobility creates another problem that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. In others words although the theme is good and damage is fine, not having mobility to get to opponents fast enough to put them under pressure combined with only having a non-scaling defense mechanic (Shroud) doesn't work well on higher levels of sPvP when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    You need a ton more skill to play Reaper well enough to get the same results as a scourge. Only on low levels like sliver and maaaaybe gold Reapers can wade into a team fight and wreck everyone. The reason is all the enemy of the team fight need to be right next to you, CC'ed and with ALL thier defensives blown for you to inflict any kind of damage, or they just need to simply avoid the wells.

    This means 75% of all professuons can stand out of your range withour fear of you being able to get to them, or get away from them while they focus you down. There is a reason why everyone targets the Reaper at mid: no defenses outside shroud (Which can be blasted from 100% -0 in a matter of seconds when focused by 2-3 enemy, and no way to escape after that.

    Reapers are the literal "sitting duck" of the game

    Giving reapers mobility would make them nearly impossible to disengage from as they'll be able to keep up with you whilst spamming axe or something like that

    You mean impossible to disengage in the way that thieves, mesmers, holosmiths, and revenants are? Power Reaper has exactly 2 ranged attacks, are both 900 range. Of those two Ghastly Claws is the only one that does noticeable damage, and even there it's damage dealt over a channel and requires vuln stacks in order to get adequate damage. Calling Reaper ranged is like calling warrior ranged because of Axe3.

    Reaper does not have the offensive or defensive capacity to justify it's poor mobility. It's damage is on par with other damage dealing builds while offering worse sustain and worse mobility than other damage dealing builds. Either Reaper needs it's defensive capabilities to be upgraded to withstand PoF damage levels, or it needs it's mobility upgrade to allow it at least be able to counterpressure.

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    I have over two thousand matches on Reaper alone. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on the class.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • @Crinn.7864 said:
    I have over two thousand matches on Reaper alone. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on the class.

    I understand this, but allow me to annoy you anyway.

    Speed Runes.

    Spectral walk is GOOD now cmonnnn

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:
    I have over two thousand matches on Reaper alone. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on the class.

    I understand this, but allow me to annoy you anyway.

    Speed Runes.

    Spectral walk is GOOD now cmonnnn

    I'm actually using speed runes already. Still get outrun by kitten. I had to pick them up after having to switch off Aristo Reaper because there is too much cleanse in the meta to allow Aristo Reaper to work.

    A lot of Reaper's mobility problems stem not from a lack of raw landspeed, but from the overabundance of cripple and immobilize that is getting thrown around. The lack of damage avoidance on necro means that you get hit with literally every cripple that gets thrown at you which is a huge problem.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:
    I have over two thousand matches on Reaper alone. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on the class.

    I understand this, but allow me to annoy you anyway.

    Speed Runes.

    Spectral walk is GOOD now cmonnnn

    I'm actually using speed runes already. Still get outrun by kitten. I had to pick them up after having to switch off Aristo Reaper because there is too much cleanse in the meta to allow Aristo Reaper to work.

    yeeeee

    one of us
    one of us

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    • Death's charge and Death Spiral are now frontal blocks.
    • Grasping Darkness is no longer negated by projectile destructs.
    • Executioner's Scythe will always apply it's stun the current target instead of picking one target at random to apply the stun to.
    • Nightfall does 50% less damage per strike but ticks every 1 second instead of every 2.
    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    This is also fine but:

    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    Cooldown -reduction- rather than a reset, otherwise running the trait that puts you back in shroud on death with a LF gen build is gonna be obnoxious.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    Cooldown -reduction- rather than a reset, otherwise running the trait that puts you back in shroud on death with a LF gen build is gonna be obnoxious.

    No more obnoxious than a mesmer

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    • Death's charge and Death Spiral are now frontal blocks.
    • Grasping Darkness is no longer negated by projectile destructs.
    • Executioner's Scythe will always apply it's stun the current target instead of picking one target at random to apply the stun to.
    • Nightfall does 50% less damage per strike but ticks every 1 second instead of every 2.
    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    This is also fine but:

    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    Cooldown -reduction- rather than a reset, otherwise running the trait that puts you back in shroud on death with a LF gen build is gonna be obnoxious.

    Reduction would be stronger tho, as if you reduced cooldowns a reaper running with Soul Reaping could potentially be able to fit in multiple uses of the 3-5 skills per shroud use.

    "the trait that puts you back in shroud" would be Unholy Sanctuary which is a Death Magic GM and would require taking that entire bloody useless traitline in order to get. Moreover abusing USanc + Reset would require the Reaper to let themselves get killed in order to use. That's not a good value, and wouldn't really be good except for making a cherrypicked meme kill youtube compilation.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @James.1065 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    >

    In my opinion the theme has become out dated with all the power creep and mobility/defence buffs given to other professions in the number of blances patches.

    This has exaggerated the problem of a themed slow moving low mobility Reaper. Because of this, Reaper's lack of mobility creates another problem that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. In others words although the theme is good and damage is fine, not having mobility to get to opponents fast enough to put them under pressure combined with only having a non-scaling defense mechanic (Shroud) doesn't work well on higher levels of sPvP when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    You need a ton more skill to play Reaper well enough to get the same results as a scourge. Only on low levels like sliver and maaaaybe gold Reapers can wade into a team fight and wreck everyone. The reason is all the enemy of the team fight need to be right next to you, CC'ed and with ALL thier defensives blown for you to inflict any kind of damage, or they just need to simply avoid the wells.

    This means 75% of all professuons can stand out of your range withour fear of you being able to get to them, or get away from them while they focus you down. There is a reason why everyone targets the Reaper at mid: no defenses outside shroud (Which can be blasted from 100% -0 in a matter of seconds when focused by 2-3 enemy, and no way to escape after that.

    Reapers are the literal "sitting duck" of the game

    Reapers have some ranged attacks with axe though, and these attacks are quiet strong especially axe 2. I think because reaper has so much access to ranged weapons that it doesn't have all the mobility other classes have, for example; Revenant has great mobility because it doesn't have ranged attacks (not counting attacks with 450 range ranged). Guardian has some shadowstep mobility because it neither has much access to ranged attacks and so on.

    Giving reapers mobility would make them nearly impossible to disengage from as they'll be able to keep up with you whilst spamming axe or something like that

    You do know that both Revenant and Gaurdiuan have access to bows and axes of which have the same and in some cases more range than a Reaper, but still have the mobility you mentioned. In fact guardian true shot hits you up to 1500 range.

    Furthermore, high mobility classes like Ranger, theif and warrior all have ranged wepons of 1200 or more.

    So I don't think your arguments make any sense that reaper has axe 2 *range 900) so shouldn't have mobility.

    All the classes you mention don't have the power a reaper has, you mention Rev shortbow? That's a meme weapon idk why you even thought about bringing that garbage up.

    Thief and warrior aswel do not have the dps a reaper can output, and whilst Ranger has a lot of dps when they go sick'em, they don't have an extra full health bar that shroud gives on necro.

    it's all balanced (in a way) Giving Reaper a bunch of mobility would break the balance

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @James.1065 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    >

    In my opinion the theme has become out dated with all the power creep and mobility/defence buffs given to other professions in the number of blances patches.

    This has exaggerated the problem of a themed slow moving low mobility Reaper. Because of this, Reaper's lack of mobility creates another problem that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. In others words although the theme is good and damage is fine, not having mobility to get to opponents fast enough to put them under pressure combined with only having a non-scaling defense mechanic (Shroud) doesn't work well on higher levels of sPvP when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    You need a ton more skill to play Reaper well enough to get the same results as a scourge. Only on low levels like sliver and maaaaybe gold Reapers can wade into a team fight and wreck everyone. The reason is all the enemy of the team fight need to be right next to you, CC'ed and with ALL thier defensives blown for you to inflict any kind of damage, or they just need to simply avoid the wells.

    This means 75% of all professuons can stand out of your range withour fear of you being able to get to them, or get away from them while they focus you down. There is a reason why everyone targets the Reaper at mid: no defenses outside shroud (Which can be blasted from 100% -0 in a matter of seconds when focused by 2-3 enemy, and no way to escape after that.

    Reapers are the literal "sitting duck" of the game

    Giving reapers mobility would make them nearly impossible to disengage from as they'll be able to keep up with you whilst spamming axe or something like that

    You mean impossible to disengage in the way that thieves, mesmers, holosmiths, and revenants are? Power Reaper has exactly 2 ranged attacks, are both 900 range. Of those two Ghastly Claws is the only one that does noticeable damage, and even there it's damage dealt over a channel and requires vuln stacks in order to get adequate damage. Calling Reaper ranged is like calling warrior ranged because of Axe3.

    Reaper does not have the offensive or defensive capacity to justify it's poor mobility. It's damage is on par with other damage dealing builds while offering worse sustain and worse mobility than other damage dealing builds. Either Reaper needs it's defensive capabilities to be upgraded to withstand PoF damage levels, or it needs it's mobility upgrade to allow it at least be able to counterpressure.

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    I have over two thousand matches on Reaper alone. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on the class.

    Reaper does need some sort of defensive buff for sure, nothing major but they need something that makes them survive a bit longer since everyone just targets them and insta kills them at start in mid. But I strongly disagree that Reaper needs more mobility.

    In my opinion Reaper should just have full shroud at the start and not have to build it up, that way they can use their full shroud at start of a game.
    But giving Reaper more mobility or blocks/defensive capabilities ontop of being able to have an extra health bar would be way too much. You don' need to be a warrior with 2 health bars or a revenant with 2 health bars

    Btw making it so all shroud skills are off cooldown when entering shroud is the most OP kitten toe ver suggest, you can go into shroud like every 10 seconds?
    Imagine if switching weapons would reset the cooldowns on said weapon aswel?

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    All the classes you mention don't have the power a reaper has, you mention Rev shortbow? That's a meme weapon idk why you even thought about bringing that garbage up.

    If you read the context it was arguing the access to ranged wepons not dps...

    Thief and warrior aswel do not have the dps a reaper can output, and whilst Ranger has a lot of dps when they go sick'em, they don't have an extra full health bar that shroud gives on necro.

    Thief, ranger and warrior do just as much dps, and in certain cases even more than a Reaper (dead eyes one shotting warriors rampaging etc), so I am not sure where you got your figures from for that comment. And for aurguments sake, even if we did have the ability to out dps these professions, we do not have anywhere close to the amount of sustain required to reach those high dps figures.

    Besides the above mentioned dps these professions have (Which is just as good as reapers), they are all also blessed with having hard defenses (invisibilty, hard blocks, dodges and invunerbilty) in addition to mobility.

    So it's like you pretending that death shroud is as good as all that? Lets be honest the so called "2nd life bar" is only 69% of the reapers max health (untraited) and depletes at 5% per second. Add an enemy wailing on you, and you lucky if your shroud lasts long enough to even execute all its skills. On top of that, there is no way to effiecently defend yourself with it long enough to catch any ranged enemy wrecking you from 1200 units or escape the 1v1 brawl that you can not win due to the lack of other defenses when your shroud evaporates. This story of "you have a whole 2nd life bar" so stop qq'ing and L2P is getting super old super fast. With the current power creep we need more mobility and defences.

    it's all balanced (in a way) Giving Reaper a bunch of mobility would break the balance

    I dont agree with you at all on that comment, as I said before reaper is the sitting duck of SPvP and it's getting worse with every balance patch.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @James.1065 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    >

    In my opinion the theme has become out dated with all the power creep and mobility/defence buffs given to other professions in the number of blances patches.

    This has exaggerated the problem of a themed slow moving low mobility Reaper. Because of this, Reaper's lack of mobility creates another problem that it's damage to sustain ratio is trash. In others words although the theme is good and damage is fine, not having mobility to get to opponents fast enough to put them under pressure combined with only having a non-scaling defense mechanic (Shroud) doesn't work well on higher levels of sPvP when the devs decide to power creep the overall damage levels by 100%.

    You need a ton more skill to play Reaper well enough to get the same results as a scourge. Only on low levels like sliver and maaaaybe gold Reapers can wade into a team fight and wreck everyone. The reason is all the enemy of the team fight need to be right next to you, CC'ed and with ALL thier defensives blown for you to inflict any kind of damage, or they just need to simply avoid the wells.

    This means 75% of all professuons can stand out of your range withour fear of you being able to get to them, or get away from them while they focus you down. There is a reason why everyone targets the Reaper at mid: no defenses outside shroud (Which can be blasted from 100% -0 in a matter of seconds when focused by 2-3 enemy, and no way to escape after that.

    Reapers are the literal "sitting duck" of the game

    Giving reapers mobility would make them nearly impossible to disengage from as they'll be able to keep up with you whilst spamming axe or something like that

    You mean impossible to disengage in the way that thieves, mesmers, holosmiths, and revenants are? Power Reaper has exactly 2 ranged attacks, are both 900 range. Of those two Ghastly Claws is the only one that does noticeable damage, and even there it's damage dealt over a channel and requires vuln stacks in order to get adequate damage. Calling Reaper ranged is like calling warrior ranged because of Axe3.

    Reaper does not have the offensive or defensive capacity to justify it's poor mobility. It's damage is on par with other damage dealing builds while offering worse sustain and worse mobility than other damage dealing builds. Either Reaper needs it's defensive capabilities to be upgraded to withstand PoF damage levels, or it needs it's mobility upgrade to allow it at least be able to counterpressure.

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    I have over two thousand matches on Reaper alone. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on the class.

    But giving Reaper more mobility or blocks/defensive capabilities ontop of being able to have an extra health bar would be way too much. You don' need to be a warrior with 2 health bars or a revenant with 2 health bars

    Full shroud at start is meaningless. Reaper has no issues building lifeforce rapidly even under pressure.

    But giving Reaper more mobility or blocks/defensive capabilities ontop of being able to have an extra health bar would be way too much. You don' need to be a warrior with 2 health bars or a revenant with 2 health bars

    Having 2 healthbars is significantly worse than having 1 healthbar and a bunch of blocks/evades, because blocks/evades have no upper limit on how much damage they can mitigate. Not to mention that blocks/evades also prevent you from being CC'ed or having condis applied to you, while a 2nd healthbar does not.

    Btw making it so all shroud skills are off cooldown when entering shroud is the most OP kitten toe ver suggest, you can go into shroud like every 10 seconds?

    No you can't go into shroud every 10 seconds because the cooldown doesn't start until after you leave shroud. In practice you only go into shroud once every 15-30 seconds.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the thing is, no one is saying "you have to use your greatsword on reaper"

    there are plenty of ranged weapons at core necro's disposal to use on reaper

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    @felincyriac.5981

    yh scourge is better with FB, reaper was just left behind. How would you make it pair better with FB? Allow a % of healing through shroud? I had a crazy idea of blighters boon working on all boons (not just yours).

    Though I guess we can't expect any changes, since anet is convinced all necro specs are fine in competitive. Reaper will just remain a pub stomp spec

    I agree and recon the problem is that in the past reaper was OP with its current death shroud mechanic and dps. However, this was about 2-3 years ago.

    Since then every profession has been re-worked and buffed with patches except reaper. The current state we in is where our dps is on par with other, but our defence, gap closers and mobility are too out dated to be effective anymore and lag far behind every other profession. Its funny that the general perception of reaper stems from people living in the past which is: "reapers are still OP because of death shroud"

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    Another interesting idea regarding mobility would be to just scrap it all and stick to the slow theme:

    dont make the reaper teleport and jump around like a thief - glue enemies to the reaper instead, with a trait like:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magebane_Tether_(trait_skill)

    This is one of the best skill inventions of all time. unfortunately on the wrong e-spec!

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    Another option is to make all damage conditions on reaper convert to disabling conditions, basically reaper is full power and you don't do any condition damage but everyone that ever dares to touch you gets loaded with slow,cripple,freeze,poison(but only the -33% healing), weakness,blind and some fear so it is a monster cc machine if you get close to it. I know it is stupid but could be a thing or even a new specialization.

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    Another change to Reaper I would like to see is for "Transfusion" to also heal the reaper himself to slightly increase our sustain

  • Dont play GS its garbage
    Use staff axe warhorn and shroud for melee
    This way you stack enough lifeforce for close combat if needed

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I've seen really good reapers destroying everyone, you just need some more skill than its other spec, scourge

    But these people would destroy their opponents on any class, because they are way smarter than their opponents.
    You don't need more skill than playing another spec, you need more skill than your opponent.

    Assuming we are talking about 1v1s.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mijitoboy.4208 said:
    Dont play GS its garbage
    Use staff axe warhorn and shroud for melee
    This way you stack enough lifeforce for close combat if needed

    Without gs you are basically food for everyone while having shroud on cd

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    You need your nanny FB or you die basically. I'm fine with a spec that is more team-fight orientated (and hence require support), but the same applies to core and scourge.

    Problem 1: Hardly anyone ever plays FB in regular queues.
    Problem 2: Reaper is still kitten even with a FB compared to other options.

    I had a crazy idea of blighters boon working on all boons (not just yours).

    This is how Blighter's Boon originally worked before being hotfixed literally 4 days after it was released. It was busted and made Reaper nearly impossible to kill. Besides, the last thing anyone in the necromancer community wants it to be forced even harder into the "must have FB" role. It's not engaging to have your effectiveness chained to being paired with a support.

    Though I guess we can't expect any changes, since anet is convinced all necro specs are fine in competitive. Reaper will just remain a pub stomp spec

    Quick reaper fix guide:

    • Death's charge and Death Spiral are now frontal blocks.
    • Grasping Darkness is no longer negated by projectile destructs.
    • Executioner's Scythe will always apply it's stun the current target instead of picking one target at random to apply the stun to.

    That never happened to me. Are u sure u didn't accidentally switch targets?
    I mean I get a lot of random, things. Like having no target and casting rs2 to run away a bit, but suddenly I get something back in target and charge back. Or suddenly loosing targets.

    • Nightfall does 50% less damage per strike but ticks every 1 second instead of every 2.

    This would be a very nice change. But I think the icd is for the sake of boon corrupt. So if you make it pulse you might have to change the boon corrupt from every pulse, to every second pulse to not make it op.

    • Chilled to the Bone cast time reduced from 1.25 to 0.75 to bring it inline with similar skills on other classes.
    • Gravedigger's reset mechanic is removed and Gravedigger's power scaling increased by 25%.
    • Entering Shroud resets the cooldowns of all shroud skills. Seriously, you should always have your shroud skills available when you enter shroud.

    Ok, the only 2 things I really don't like are the last 2 points.

    I'd like to see gravediggers reset removed (especially for the sake of pve gameplay) but I don't think giving it straight more dmg would fix anything.
    I'd like it more, if the casttime was halfed instead, or you get a 50% bonus critchance on gravedigger, so it's guaranteed to critically hit (which is automatically making it hit harder).

    Guess the last change wouldn't be good for pve.

    The thing with resetting is super op.

    That's like asking for ele, that every time you swap attunement to fire, your CDs are resettled -> infinite meteor showers in wvw would destroy the gamemode (as meteor shower is already way to strong in my opinion, but that has something to do with overall dmg in wvw)

    I'd like it much more if there was some kind of cc immunity in shroud - No not that 1 stack of stability from RS3.

    The biggest problems of reaper:
    1. Weak to enemy range
    2. Weak to fast enemies
    3. Weak to cc
    4. Shroud takes a lot of dmg even with protection when focussed by multiple enemies

    Well 3 and 4 go together hand in hand. If you remove one of these, you shouldn't remove the other issue else this would be too strong.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019

    @mijitoboy.4208 said:
    Dont play GS its garbage
    Use staff axe warhorn and shroud for melee
    This way you stack enough lifeforce for close combat if needed

    That's a nice invitation for your target to burst you while ignoring everything you do when you swap to staff as there will be zero pressure outgoing from you.

    GS... garbage... thanks for the laugh!

    I don't agree with the majority of reaper players in this thread. Reaper's sustain is not subpar. The spec is just limited to paladin amulet in team fights as this amulet scales better on reaper than on any other spec: 600 ferocity bonus, 100% crit chance, vitality benefits LF pool, toughness further decreases damage in shroud which is already decreased by 50% baseline, high health and toughness help you survive that 10s shroud cooldown. When you go for paladin, you can sustain as long as everyone else.

    What reaper is really about is that it trades mobility for aoe (not just damage but also cc and corrupts) which is mainly an issue in wvw roaming scenarios. sPvP maps are so small and full of LOS options and jumping puzzles that the lack of mobility is not really an issue.

  • staff 5 fears for 2s when traited which u can follow up with axe 2 or/and focus 5

    Staff 4 can crit for 4k and remove up to 15 condis, 3 condition transfer/target

    And staff is unblockable + annulment sigil makes it good defense weapon

    imo gs is garbage at least in pvp but even in wvw i dont use it because its not worth

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