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If charr and human went to war, which faction would support which side?


Cerioth.7062

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@kasoki.5180 said:

However, Charr has both magic and techs. That's where the disparity comes in. Since both sides will have access to magic, it is pointless to discuss that topic, thus I focused on military techs, training, and numbers.

Charrs have magic the same way humans have technology.

They are not magic oriented culture nor is there any indication that they posses significant magical prowess. Only significant magical feat they ever did was Searing Cauldron and that was gift from the titans.

I disagree. The Charr has many Legions and you're basically comparing humans magical capabilities to Blood, Iron, and Ash, which are mostly physically oriented Legions. However, the Legion that specialized in magic was the Fire Legion, which proves that the Charr posses magical prowess that rivals the humans.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

However, Charr has both magic and techs. That's where the disparity comes in. Since both sides will have access to magic, it is pointless to discuss that topic, thus I focused on military techs, training, and numbers.

Charrs have magic the same way humans have technology.

They are not magic oriented culture nor is there any indication that they posses significant magical prowess. Only significant magical feat they ever did was Searing Cauldron and that was gift from the titans.

I disagree. The Charr has many Legions and you're basically comparing humans magical capabilities to Blood, Iron, and Ash, which are mostly physically oriented Legions. However, the Legion that specialized in magic was the Fire Legion, which proves that the Charr posses magical prowess that rivals the humans.

Thats indeed True and found everywhere in the game. sure there are Magic meddlers in all legions but u have to consider that u cant Count the Player Population for that because the Player are not representative for their legions but one individual of the Legion the PC Chose at the creationMagic in General is distrusted a lot in charr Society for the flame Legion incidents in the past

but assuming that for some reason the Pro war faction withing the charr get too power and the fights are starting it would surely be interesting to witness the complicated political issues that would be accusing.it is mentioned a lot that the races in emself are not united in this thread while the ones with the most unity may or may not be the sylvari considering that the court got hit pretty hard in the past.

i dont really get why so many here said that the norn would join one side or the other.. the norn are the most individualistic race and dont form armys themselfes. why exactly would u think they would join some cause united? ofcourse some may join the fighting but each norn will make a choice for himself so they would be found on either side based on their own circumstances. i gotta say in gw2 ist not as good visualised how the norn Society is build as in gw1 (my opinion) but then i dont really Play em so maybe i missed some Major stuff.

most interesting of all would be the Trouble the orders and the pact would face in case of a war between humans and charr because a good part of the pact are charr soldiers and not all of em are gladium who were cast out from the high legions. there are some who are ordered to join an order for one reason or another like the charr PC himself or that kitty in "the ghosts of ascalon" wich Name i forgot (sorry)wich would cause a lot of instability and distrust that would Need to be contained somehow. in the HoT incident the PC had big influence about how to deal with the sylvari who were potential collaborators.

another interesting question would ofcourse be "is THE commander still alive?" at the time of this fictive war and is the PC still capable of fighting or too old/ injured/ magically drooling to participate in the battles. If still alive then ofc the next question would be if the PC approves of the war(not likely) and wich race he is.

ofcourse the reason why the war starts and who is starting it is very importend so it Need to be specified to make more detailed assumptions but here some examples with interesting feat:*

  • PC is charr and joins the pro war anti human faction cuz of the oath sworn to the shinging blade wich may or may not be still intact (temporary death in PoF) wicjh could deal a huge blow against human Morales.

  • PC is charr but against the war ant takes Opposition to the orders of the high Legion. this would cause quit a ruckus for the charr

  • PC is charr against the legions reasoning for the war and joins the human side. this would definetly have an even heavier Impact

  • PC is Human but dont join any side only try to calm both sides down

  • PC is Human and joins the humans cuz disapproves the charr reasons - could cause some stir cuz some ex pact soldiers in the Legion might not want to fight the PC

  • PC is human and joins the charr cuz dissapproves human reasons -> fatal blow against the human side

*human side considered as kryta

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@norbes.3620 said:

However, Charr has both magic and techs. That's where the disparity comes in. Since both sides will have access to magic, it is pointless to discuss that topic, thus I focused on military techs, training, and numbers.

Charrs have magic the same way humans have technology.

They are not magic oriented culture nor is there any indication that they posses significant magical prowess. Only significant magical feat they ever did was Searing Cauldron and that was gift from the titans.

I disagree. The Charr has many Legions and you're basically comparing humans magical capabilities to Blood, Iron, and Ash, which are mostly physically oriented Legions. However, the Legion that specialized in magic was the Fire Legion, which proves that the Charr posses magical prowess that rivals the humans.

Thats indeed True and found everywhere in the game. sure there are Magic meddlers in all legions but u have to consider that u cant Count the Player Population for that because the Player are not representative for their legions but one individual of the Legion the PC Chose at the creationMagic in General is distrusted a lot in charr Society for the flame Legion incidents in the past

Even if magic is distrusted, it doesn't really change the fact that the Charr posses magical prowess that can rival the humans. In an event of a Human-Charr war, it's not unlikely that the High Legion will issue a truce with the Fire Legion and employ their magic users, even as fodder in the front line. The Fire Legion hates humans more than they hate the High Legion and more than likely will be glad to cooperate.

However if this event unfolds, the Fire Legion will find this as an opportunity to gain power proving that the alliance with the humans was folly from the very beginning that the judgment of the High Legion is flawed. This will rally more Charr under the leadership of the Fire Legion putting them in command.

This is a scenario that the Charr Legion I assumed have already considered, that a war with the human would mean the return of the Fire Legion in the position of power. This is why the Legions, even grudgingly, agreed to make peace with the humans. The alternative is not something they want.

but assuming that for some reason the Pro war faction withing the charr get too power and the fights are starting it would surely be interesting to witness the complicated political issues that would be accusing.it is mentioned a lot that the races in emself are not united in this thread while the ones with the most unity may or may not be the sylvari considering that the court got hit pretty hard in the past.

The only group that is more likely to start the war is the humans by attempting to retake Ascalon. I don't see the Charr starting any war despite of their militaristic culture. The humans, even though they want to retake Ascalon, is in no position of starting a war. So, that's that. Nobody from either side wants it.

i dont really get why so many here said that the norn would join one side or the other.. the norn are the most individualistic race and dont form armys themselfes. why exactly would u think they would join some cause united? ofcourse some may join the fighting but each norn will make a choice for himself so they would be found on either side based on their own circumstances. i gotta say in gw2 ist not as good visualised how the norn Society is build as in gw1 (my opinion) but then i dont really Play em so maybe i missed some Major stuff.

Yeah, I don't believe that the Norn will pick a side either. They didn't pick a side then, they won't pick a side now. Although, a few might join as mercenaries for the sake of glory.

most interesting of all would be the Trouble the orders and the pact would face in case of a war between humans and charr because a good part of the pact are charr soldiers and not all of em are gladium who were cast out from the high legions. there are some who are ordered to join an order for one reason or another like the charr PC himself or that kitty in "the ghosts of ascalon" wich Name i forgot (sorry)

I think you mean Ember. She was commanded by Almorra from the Vigil, not from the High Legion.

wich would cause a lot of instability and distrust that would Need to be contained somehow. in the HoT incident the PC had big influence about how to deal with the sylvari who were potential collaborators.

I'm sure the members of the Order and the Pact will stay neutral since their purpose is different. However, I would expect some members will abandon their Order/Pact duty to return home for the war.

another interesting question would ofcourse be "is THE commander still alive?" at the time of this fictive war and is the PC still capable of fighting or too old/ injured/ magically drooling to participate in the battles. If still alive then ofc the next question would be if the PC approves of the war(not likely) and wich race he is.

ofcourse the reason why the war starts and who is starting it is very importend so it Need to be specified to make more detailed assumptions but here some examples with interesting feat:*

  • PC is charr and joins the pro war anti human faction cuz of the oath sworn to the shinging blade wich may or may not be still intact (temporary death in PoF) wicjh could deal a huge blow against human Morales.

  • PC is charr but against the war ant takes Opposition to the orders of the high Legion. this would cause quit a ruckus for the charr

  • PC is charr against the legions reasoning for the war and joins the human side. this would definetly have an even heavier Impact

  • PC is Human but dont join any side only try to calm both sides down

  • PC is Human and joins the humans cuz disapproves the charr reasons - could cause some stir cuz some ex pact soldiers in the Legion might not want to fight the PC

  • PC is human and joins the charr cuz dissapproves human reasons -> fatal blow against the human side

*human side considered as kryta

Nah, the Commander will be a relic of the past from this point on. If the Commander failed to prevent the war from happening, that means he already lost his voice and they no longer respect his opinion. Nobody would want his counsel knowing fully well that the Commander don't want the war in the first place. The race of the Commander will not change this.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@"norbes.3620" said:

most interesting of all would be the Trouble the orders and the pact would face in case of a war between humans and charr because a good part of the pact are charr soldiers and not all of em are gladium who were cast out from the high legions. there are some who are ordered to join an order for one reason or another like the charr PC himself or that kitty in "the ghosts of ascalon" wich Name i forgot (sorry)

I think you mean Ember. She was commanded by Almorra from the Vigil, not from the High Legion.

She joined on the Ash Legion's instructions. (Should be page 223, if you have a copy handy.) The Imperator wanted a reliable informant to keep an eye on what the Vigil was up to.

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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@"norbes.3620" said:

most interesting of all would be the Trouble the orders and the pact would face in case of a war between humans and charr because a good part of the pact are charr soldiers and not all of em are gladium who were cast out from the high legions. there are some who are ordered to join an order for one reason or another like the charr PC himself or that kitty in "the ghosts of ascalon" wich Name i forgot (sorry)

I think you mean Ember. She was commanded by Almorra from the Vigil, not from the High Legion.

She joined on the Ash Legion's instructions. (Should be page 223, if you have a copy handy.) The Imperator wanted a reliable informant to keep an eye on what the Vigil was up to.

My recollection failed me. Thanks. Which also reminds me that Almorra no longer have a warband.

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Asura: would probably give weapons and other supplies to the humans in exchange for economic benefits / dependenceCentaurs: would continue their war against the humans, whether or not they'd join forces with the charr however is questionablethe other races: would stay neutral unless provoked

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@"Tails.9372" said:Asura: would probably give weapons and other supplies to the humans in exchange for economic benefits / dependenceCentaurs: would continue their war against the humans, whether or not they'd join forces with the charr however is questionablethe other races: would stay neutral unless provoked

Asura are likely to curry favour with both parties. Having no loyalty to either human nor charr, they'd prop up the losing side to sell goods, services and war bonds.Norn are likely to fight on all sides for their own reasons: Olaf Hammerhand joins Kryta, his rival Fritjof Anvilfinger joins the charr to try and battle Olaf. The rest of the fighting is just part of the epic adventure.Lion's Arch tries to mediate between the warring parties and so do the Orders. The priory will send letters and do diplomatic reasoning, the Vigil will set up neutral grounds and protect civilians from becoming collateral, Whispers might try to sabotage the assaulting armies and take out warmongers on both sides, if necessary.Sylvari, like the norn will likely be present on all sides. Charr have them, humans have them, orders have them. They'll be excited, but also worried about peace.

With all the entanglement between Kryta and the Legions, this would be an embarrassment of a war. Crossing the Shiverpeaks would be full of accidents for all sides involved, the orders insist on being neutral grounds, Lion's Arch is neutral, secret maneuvers are impossible, because Whispers has operatives everywhere, and since many commanders likely know each other from the Zhaitan campaign, this will not be a slaughter, like 250 years ago, but there are likely rules in place. Prisoners will be exchanged, morale will not be what it used to be on either human and charr side and unpopular leaders risk getting Rytlock Brimstone'd by their ambitious underlings. What a slog. And for what little gain? The Legions can only reasonably grab Ebonhawke. Having Shiverpeak enclaves would be a logistical nightmare. The humans could demand more of Ascalon, which is currently plagued by many issues and charr retaliation would likely drive them back into the gates of Ebonhawke.This would be the Battles of Isonzo all over again. But up to eleven! After the umpteenth failed offensive the leaders might already be thinking about making a truce. The charr might discover acetylsalicylic acid, just to have something to help against the headache. They would later export that to the humans, so their leaders would add citrus to that mix. Then they'd call a peace, having defeated not their intended enemy, but pains and inflammations. The asura might end up buying tons of the stuff to treat their own headaches, too, while Kryta trains a new cadre of capable officers, while the legions introduce mandatory leadership courses for anyone, who rises above the rank of legionnaire.

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@Castigator.3470 said:With all the entanglement between Kryta and the Legions, this would be an embarrassment of a war. Crossing the Shiverpeaks would be full of accidents for all sides involved, the orders insist on being neutral grounds, Lion's Arch is neutral, secret maneuvers are impossible, because Whispers has operatives everywhere, and since many commanders likely know each other from the Zhaitan campaign, this will not be a slaughter, like 250 years ago, but there are likely rules in place. Prisoners will be exchanged, morale will not be what it used to be on either human and charr side and unpopular leaders risk getting Rytlock Brimstone'd by their ambitious underlings. What a slog. And for what little gain? The Legions can only reasonably grab Ebonhawke. Having Shiverpeak enclaves would be a logistical nightmare. The humans could demand more of Ascalon, which is currently plagued by many issues and charr retaliation would likely drive them back into the gates of Ebonhawke.

If the Charr-Human war happen, the first human settlement to fall is the Ebonhawke. Strategically, humans can attack the Charr from behind. So to secure their rear, the Charr will put Ebonhawke under siege and the goal is to disable the Asura gate or use it to attack Divinity's Reach directly. If the Char failed to secure the Gate, they will be fighting two fronts and that's not strategically wise. The Shiverpeaks is a natural barrier against invasion, so mountain terrain would be enough to delay any advancing army while they're sieging Ebonhawke. The Ash Legion can set up camps in the Shiverpeaks to conduct guerilla warfare to further delay any advancing army.

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@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Good points on the objectives and strategical value of the Shiverpeaks.Yes, but after Ebonhawke is taken, what is there to gain for the Legions? After that Iron Blood and Ash have conquered all of Ascalon and crossing the Shiverpeaks with an offensive force is likely to make you as famous as Luigi Cadorna. This goes for both humans and charr. After Ebonhawke falls, the war is effectively over.

Unless you get a commander on either side who can either circumvent the Shiverpeaks, or get through against all expectation and with enough remaining strength to do something on the other side, while a supply route has to be established. That supply route will be harassed by norn screaming:"Fritjof, where are you hiding!?" or "Olaf, come out to play!!", while things tend to go missing, mountain passes experiences sudden avalanches, dredge will throw their sound cannons into the mix, skritt will steal shinies, grawls will do something annoying when you least expect it and when you finally cross the mountains, you are greeted by angry charr or angry humans.

And when you get past that you can try to take two of the most fortified places on Tyria: A massively walled and tiered city with a bubble shield, which can spawn mesmer portals, or an iron fortress, which has walls that can bounce projectiles, so trebuchets and old cannons do nothing, and which has so much artillery that it can rain shells on any attacker.If it was one side against the other with no outside interference, the charr might win this, but this is not the time where no interference can be expected. Now, humans probably couldn't win either without using some searing tier atrocity, and Jennah isn't stupid, the moment humanity loses its allies is the moment everything goes down the drain for them.

And even a charr victory wouldn't be all it's cracked up to be. What if the charr west of the Shiverpeaks decide to become independent and create a new state? Rise of the Wood Legion? They'd effectively create a more dangerous Kryta.

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@Castigator.3470 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Good points on the objectives and strategical value of the Shiverpeaks.Yes, but after Ebonhawke is taken, what is there to gain for the Legions? After that Iron Blood and Ash have conquered all of Ascalon and crossing the Shiverpeaks with an offensive force is likely to make you as famous as Luigi Cadorna. This goes for both humans and charr. After Ebonhawke falls, the war is effectively over.

I agree. The fall of Ebonhawke practically would end the war with a human surrender. However, Ebonhawke had stood there for hundred of years repelling the Charr, so I doubt it would be an easy campaign.

Unless you get a commander on either side who can either circumvent the Shiverpeaks, or get through against all expectation and with enough remaining strength to do something on the other side, while a supply route has to be established. That supply route will be harassed by norn screaming:"Fritjof, where are you hiding!?" or "Olaf, come out to play!!", while things tend to go missing, mountain passes experiences sudden avalanches, dredge will throw their sound cannons into the mix, skritt will steal shinies, grawls will do something annoying when you least expect it and when you finally cross the mountains, you are greeted by angry charr or angry humans.

Yeah it won't be easy crossing the Shiverpeak. Not to mention, each side can deploy a squad to engage in guerilla tactics. I would imagine that leading an army through the Shiverpeaks would end up like Hannibal's folly where he lost almost half of his army. Airships are out of the question since they are slow and easy to shoot down. So yes, they'll have to do it on foot.

And when you get past that you can try to take two of the most fortified places on Tyria: A massively walled and tiered city with a bubble shield, which can spawn mesmer portals, or an iron fortress, which has walls that can bounce projectiles, so trebuchets and old cannons do nothing, and which has so much artillery that it can rain shells on any attacker.

Wouldn't that be a sight. Unless each side has a way to take those defenses down, I doubt they will start the march through the Shiverpeak.

If it was one side against the other with no outside interference, the charr might win this, but this is not the time where no interference can be expected. Now, humans probably couldn't win either without using some searing tier atrocity, and Jennah isn't stupid, the moment humanity loses its allies is the moment everything goes down the drain for them.

Jenna and Anise are two powerful Mesmers and we have not seen their full power, so I would not count the human out that easily. If the Charr attacks, the human has the homefield advantage and any Charr that made it to the west side of the mountain would easily be cut off.

And even a charr victory wouldn't be all it's cracked up to be. What if the charr west of the Shiverpeaks decide to become independent and create a new state? Rise of the Wood Legion? They'd effectively create a more dangerous Kryta.

Yes, the possibility for an epic story is endless. lol @ Wood Legions. I'm sure they will pick a better name like the Olmakhan.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Cerioth.7062 said:If charr and human went to war, which faction would support which side?

Depends on which one rocked the boat first.

We have a good thing going right now. It'd be stupid for either side to screw with that status quo and whoever did so would be the one at fault. In terms of all out war though, humans really can't field the numbers charr can anymore.

Depending on racial sympathies however, they'd probably get help from most of the other races if they weren't the ones who initiated the conflict. Maybe even from other charr legions such as Iron or Ash if it was Blood that went rouge.

Blood has a potential radical element but that doesn't seem to have manifested in any significant way beyond grumpy old war cat survived the wars and hates those damn commies mice.

If they wanted to build into the idea of Bangar being an extremist he could have supported the renegades, but that doesn't come to bear in any meaningful way unlike how the Krytan bandits obviously had a benefactor.

If it was humans that decided to initiate conflict unprovoked, it would be over and fairly decisive. With Caudecus out of the picture and the White Mantle broken, theres no serious radical element left on the human side to stir up trouble.

The separatists are few and without leadership and Bangar hasn't shown signs of being a calculating sneaky radical and such schemes don't really fit the modus operandi of the Blood Legion at any rate.

Everyone is well aware of Bangar's distaste for humanity as is the case with most charr. They tend to wear their hearts on their sleeve. They like you or they don't and they're not going to pretend one way or the other.

As it stands while the Blood Legion Imperator has personal hang ups with humans, it's not enough to drive him to do stupid things as of writing.

The story could easily be bent to introduce crazy (ley line sickness, flame legion coup, etc) but right now he seems more of a conservative old school type of charr as opposed to full on genocidal war machine.

Any organized major hostility could change all of that of course (charr at war are quite vicious) but at present it seems theres a lasting calm and as the new generation comes in and we all make nice with each other, a lasting peace can be achieved.

One good thing of world ending events like Elder Dragons is they can bring about cooperation like that. Charr bond best in combat and combat against an apocalyptic foe should prove quite the bonding experience.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I assume people forget that humans now have working, safe watch knights to help protect them?

I won't be surprise if the engineer behind their design is a Charr since the watchknight looks like Charr tech.

It is actually well known that they were designed by humans who studied the Steam Creatures in the shiverpeaks which were originally designed by Scarlet Briar. No part of their construction was of charr origin. While humans were on the losing side of the war, they were scrappy and were somehow always stay just far enough ahead od the charr to avoid destruction. Minus the Kryta scenario which was trading one slave master for another.

I'll remain skeptic until they revealed the engineer behind the design. When they introduced the watchknights, they should have introduced the engineer also since it is a historical achievement. But the hush hush about it makes me suspicious.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Royal_Engineer_Siroa

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@TheQuickFox.3826 said:I'm Human from Ascalonian descendancy and I haven't forgotten about our history.I would love to drive the Charr out of Ascalon and bring peace to the Human spirits there.

But driving Charrs out won't fix the Ghost problem. They will fight against the humans, they can't recognize who is who. Only way to solve Ghosts problem is connected with Sohothin, which is in Charr hands (paws?)

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@Aracz.4702 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:I'm Human from Ascalonian descendancy and I haven't forgotten about our history.I would love to drive the Charr out of Ascalon and bring peace to the Human spirits there.

But driving Charrs out won't fix the Ghost problem. They will fight against the humans, they can't recognize who is who. Only way to solve Ghosts problem is connected with Sohothin, which is in Charr hands (paws?)

To you, these ghosts are a problem. To me, these are the spirits of my forefathers.These spirits will find peace one their land is restored.

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@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:I'm Human from Ascalonian descendancy and I haven't forgotten about our history.I would love to drive the Charr out of Ascalon and bring peace to the Human spirits there.

But driving Charrs out won't fix the Ghost problem. They will fight against the humans, they can't recognize who is who. Only way to solve Ghosts problem is connected with Sohothin, which is in Charr hands (paws?)

To you, these ghosts are a problem. To me, these are the spirits of my forefathers.These spirits will find peace one their land is restored.

I mean... They have a problem. Suffering the same day for this whole time, only because of mad King. And I dont think this will end with restoring a land, it's a way to undone the curse in the way king would like to undone it... If it will undone it. He wanted this land for Ascalonians (humans were divided) who are now ghosts. I suppose that event if someone reclaim Ascalon from Charrs, it will end with ghosts protecting the land from other live beings, cause they aren't those for who deserve this land by the curse... Maybe it's different, i'm not 100℅ sureBut i'm sure of two things. You shouldn't make anyone suffer for not their fault to try to undone someone else suffering, and it's a bad idea to trust a ghost of someone who was mad :DIn my opinion, more persons/characters should focus to resolve ghost problem (problem with ghost and problem the ghost have), cause event if you want take Ascalon from Charrs, you don't want to deal with ghosts destroying your supply lines. Event if they do same to enemy supply lines, in this situation, your enemy is probably better prepared, because they had to deal with those ghosts for a long time.And from other side, making ghosts free from curse is just morally a good thing

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I assume people forget that humans now have working, safe watch knights to help protect them?

I won't be surprise if the engineer behind their design is a Charr since the watchknight looks like Charr tech.

It is actually well known that they were designed by humans who studied the Steam Creatures in the shiverpeaks which were originally designed by Scarlet Briar. No part of their construction was of charr origin. While humans were on the losing side of the war, they were scrappy and were somehow always stay just far enough ahead od the charr to avoid destruction. Minus the Kryta scenario which was trading one slave master for another.

I'll remain skeptic until they revealed the engineer behind the design. When they introduced the watchknights, they should have introduced the engineer also since it is a historical achievement. But the hush hush about it makes me suspicious.

Note: "She is one of the creators of the new Watchknight Mk II model"

Who's the others?

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I assume people forget that humans now have working, safe watch knights to help protect them?

I won't be surprise if the engineer behind their design is a Charr since the watchknight looks like Charr tech.

It is actually well known that they were designed by humans who studied the Steam Creatures in the shiverpeaks which were originally designed by Scarlet Briar. No part of their construction was of charr origin. While humans were on the losing side of the war, they were scrappy and were somehow always stay just far enough ahead od the charr to avoid destruction. Minus the Kryta scenario which was trading one slave master for another.

I'll remain skeptic until they revealed the engineer behind the design. When they introduced the watchknights, they should have introduced the engineer also since it is a historical achievement. But the hush hush about it makes me suspicious.

Note: "
She is one of the creators
of the new Watchknight Mk II model"

Who's the others?

Does it matter at this point?She surely has access to blueprints as result of being part of the project team, this shows how humans can adapt and acquire new knowledge as necessary

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I assume people forget that humans now have working, safe watch knights to help protect them?

I won't be surprise if the engineer behind their design is a Charr since the watchknight looks like Charr tech.

It is actually well known that they were designed by humans who studied the Steam Creatures in the shiverpeaks which were originally designed by Scarlet Briar. No part of their construction was of charr origin. While humans were on the losing side of the war, they were scrappy and were somehow always stay just far enough ahead od the charr to avoid destruction. Minus the Kryta scenario which was trading one slave master for another.

I'll remain skeptic until they revealed the engineer behind the design. When they introduced the watchknights, they should have introduced the engineer also since it is a historical achievement. But the hush hush about it makes me suspicious.

Note: "
She is one of the creators
of the new Watchknight Mk II model"

Who's the others?

So, humans do not have the capacity to build the Watchknights, but they can improve them? I feel like there has to be a fairly intimate understanding of a technology in order to improve said technology.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Narcemus.1348 said:I assume people forget that humans now have working, safe watch knights to help protect them?

I won't be surprise if the engineer behind their design is a Charr since the watchknight looks like Charr tech.

It is actually well known that they were designed by humans who studied the Steam Creatures in the shiverpeaks which were originally designed by Scarlet Briar. No part of their construction was of charr origin. While humans were on the losing side of the war, they were scrappy and were somehow always stay just far enough ahead od the charr to avoid destruction. Minus the Kryta scenario which was trading one slave master for another.

I'll remain skeptic until they revealed the engineer behind the design. When they introduced the watchknights, they should have introduced the engineer also since it is a historical achievement. But the hush hush about it makes me suspicious.

you mean the engineer you can meet in the Queen's Gauntlet arena? And talk to about the watch knights?

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Has noone realized in what great position Kryta is?

After Caudecus' death:White Mantle/Bandits are no moreCentaurs brokenno dragons on their doors

Compare that with Charr:ghosts still activebrand very activeflame legion somewhat active

I wouldn't bet on the charr at all. They haven't fought anything major in the last 200 years, while Kryta has a lot of experience. Charr prowess in war and designing war machines was shown to be subpar by the simple fact that Ebonhawk stood the whole time.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:Compare that with Charr:ghosts still activebrand very activeflame legion somewhat active

No?Ghosts are less active than before. Brand after Shatterer death is much less active than before. Flame Legion lost their emperor and they are now a numerous individual groups, who possibly event fight witch each other for powerThose Years ago, these problems were the cause why Charrs werent able to take Ebonhawke (still i douby they were going to take it- it was great shooting range). But now Legions dont have such a issues

And Charrs wers in war with Ebonhawke, which was major. And that was no more than 10 years ago (to current story state). In term of tactics, tradition, training and equipment, I still think Ebonhawke have better army than Krytan with half-militia half-soldier seraphs.

The last thing. Maybe ghosts, brand and flame legion would reduce charr offensive capabilities, but it would also make their land harder to take. Adding to this thing that fact the Charr society is build in ~90℅ by military trained persons, taking Ascalon from them would be as hard as conquering Russia.Taking over Kryta won't be easier. It's long distance and there are other problems on the way. Without improvement to strategies, tactics and politic propaganda, I think it's imposdoble for any side to win offensive war. And to conquer other race/specie land. Full genocide is not a possibility (unles conquered commit suicide and take his countrymens with him .-. Ascalon and Orr) and creating a puppet state is not satysfying for conqueror.

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