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Can Rangers Kill Scrappers In PvP -if so, how?


EnderzShadow.2506

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Had fun with scrapper. Felt like it's really enjoyable when you're glass. Trouble a bit against condi mirage but maybe I'm just bad at engi. Didn't have too much trouble against rangers (using hammer). As a ranger I switch from soulbeast to condi druid if the scrapper's the only one giving trouble.

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Yep. You have to do a lot of damage really fast or CC them really hard or ideally both. I've been able to do it running bm/mm/and sb with zerker and gs using moment of clarity and remorseless to just CC and get big mauls/worldly impacts. The biggest problem with this is the auto defense bomb that blinds you so possibly burning through them with quickness and whirling defense would probably be the easier option. But you gotta go pretty glassy. I'm wearing a zerker ammy, and from my experience running siamoth + smokescale for extra CC helps a lot too.

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I have been able to kill them sometimes running LB/GS sic'em build. While its not easy we do have the tools to take them down. I have found it best to poke at them from ranged first and waiting for them to pop the bulwark and heal gyro and then go in for the burst. Most of them only run a single stunbreak and one stability skill, so if you can make a stub combo on them with your pet you can get them.that said, hell of a complicated fight!

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I tried spamming axe3 and frost trap and managed to kill a few wannabe scraps who venture far on their own(our home node).... You can extend their CD with chilled and burst them down or drag the fight until +1 by our team mate any Condi class should do

But, if they were supporting mid, or accompanied by a teammate, you better leave the fight as a ranger and go do something else that might really contribute to the team...

But then again I might be wrong... Since I'm not a plat player... Scraps I get matched with are mostly mid gold and lower... Don't know much about plat scraps anyway

I remember a match where enemy had two skilled scraps and one bunker ele and two DPS class who would join their teammates whenever our team move towards that node ... They coordinated well and secured all three nodes... Hard to kill... Scraps won't kill you quick... They just make you use up all your DPS skills and wait for their teammates to kill you

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@Eurantien.4632 said:Yep. You have to do a lot of damage really fast or CC them really hard or ideally both. I've been able to do it running bm/mm/and sb with zerker and gs using moment of clarity and remorseless to just CC and get big mauls/worldly impacts. The biggest problem with this is the auto defense bomb that blinds you so possibly burning through them with quickness and whirling defense would probably be the easier option. But you gotta go pretty glassy. I'm wearing a zerker ammy, and from my experience running siamoth + smokescale for extra CC helps a lot too.

I take it, you only run this when you see team matchups that are favorable for a glassy build.Also, eh man, Running zerk-quickness and whirling defense---I think that would be wasted on me.I've ran marauder w/quickness and sicem and while I can down many classes from Range (best case scenario)finding teammates that will finish or finish before those players are rezzed is tough.> @Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

I tried spamming axe3 and frost trap and managed to kill a few wannabe scraps who venture far on their own(our home node).... You can extend their CD with chilled and burst them down or drag the fight until +1 by our team mate any Condi class should do

But, if they were supporting mid, or accompanied by a teammate, you better leave the fight as a ranger and go do something else that might really contribute to the team...

But then again I might be wrong... Since I'm not a plat player... Scraps I get matched with are mostly mid gold and lower... Don't know much about plat scraps anyway

I remember a match where enemy had two skilled scraps and one bunker ele and two DPS class who would join their teammates whenever our team move towards that node ... They coordinated well and secured all three nodes... Hard to kill... Scraps won't kill you quick... They just make you use up all your DPS skills and wait for their teammates to kill you

Thanks for the advice.I think there are the FOTM scrappers or what you call Wannabe Scrappers.I know Im probably going to get $* for this, but I dont think the individual 1v1 skill level of a Gold 2 scrapper and a low plat 2 scrapper is night and day.**

I know from watching videos of high plat 2 that a well played scrapper is completely OP in their eyes andruins the balance of PvP. That it's just not their ability to give boons and rez but to do so while still being able to put out good dpsand for good players, run very glassy ammy/runes and still be very tanky for a well player Scrapper.I've watched videos of flawless players lose to them.woodenpotatoes analysis seemed pretty spot on

Personally, still a bit unsure whether they are ridiculously OP or just a bit OP and no one knows how to beat them.I think it's a bit of both.Sort of Reminds me of Druid before and after players knew what to do.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:I've actually been running zerk mm/bm/sb lb/gs since the update and been doing very well with it. Kills pretty much everything when played right.

When Played RightCurious, do you even try for 1v1's on a build so glassy or do you play more of a +1, Ranged group fight, decapper?Do you try to share stances while zerk?I ask because all the times I tried to play Marauder or Zerk,I wasn't always certain when to stay back or when to share stances (being that as soft as I am, it's tricky)

Kind of derailing my own thread hehe

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@XenoSpyro.1780 said:

When Played Right
I see this meaningless phrase pop up so much, it almost deserves it's own trademark.

ha, ikr.No offense intended toward Eurantein who is a very good ranger.I have a hard time believing, at lower levels of play, Gold up to Plat , a Zerk Sb build is going to carry.And 'carry' in my humble opinion, is what you have to do.

@Rusty.9348 said:Ranger can kill a scrapper. Amen. You just don't have to do it alone.

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And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAnXRnEqAV8iN8C2CCs8ilCBrpDs6eBPdhZQAIv6udLvl4w0A-jpwOABAs/g2lBAA

Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:@Eurantien.4632 :oYesterday ROM also used zerk soulbeast and he could consistently beat bunker scrappers.

I think the game design is good there : a glass cannon can counter a bunker.Indeed he died a lot because with that build you go all in with no sustain.A simple reflect did make down himself a couple of times...

Yeah ROM and I often ask each other what the other is running. And i've mainly been running this zerker build so he's been giving it a shot. From my experience, I can easily sustain vs a scrapper, if they throw up the reflect I either stow or go unblockable.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:Yeah ROM and I often ask each other what the other is running. And i've mainly been running this zerker build so he's been giving it a shot. From my experience, I can easily sustain vs a scrapper, if they throw up the reflect I either stow or go unblockable.so thank you, this gameplay is so much more entertaining to watch than boonbeast.

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And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting:

Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

I did try a build similar to yours with sic em. I think beastmastery with strength of the pack and honed axes, you can get some crazy crazy high whirling defense (i've hit 30k) once you get to 25 might. I think with siamoth you can definitely still win 1v1s (maybe even add smokescale over bird) and in a team fight if a team can CC someone for you and you, you could smoke assault -> team CC -> Quickness whirling defense for some insta death.

Mainly lb/gs is always going to be a roamer. Personally, I just pushed this scrapper because 80% of the time i can get a quick kill and I can kill them way faster than my teammates can and I'd rather kill him than have 1 or 2 teammates stalemated against him That being said, LB/GS does quite well vs strength warrior. If I can economically survive the rampage, Its actually a really easy fight. I've also had little trouble with chronos. That being said, boon beast would destroy my ranger build and so would condi mirage (both of which I believe are still semi viable for side noding) so although maybe a variation of this build COULD side node, I certainly wouldn't want to. I think it would be similar to how USA does their comp. Zeromis is a "side noder" but he really isn't.

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And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting:

Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

@jcbroe.4329 Missed your presence on the forums. Glad you posted the questions, was wondering the same.

I want to understand why this build works.

My initial impression of gs/smokescale and oppressive superiority...Meh/ugh.Because it seems like it's a very 'all in' build.

I'm Not a fan of gs, never have been. It doesn't allow me to evade around a node like sw does. It's very all in.Jump in, do dmg, pull off super combo and if that fails, a half a$$3d retreat and block.It doesn't buy me enough time to get into owl or to heal like sw would.

No shared stances= meh..for what, 10 percent extra dmg? Is that really worth it and why?

No siamoth= no boons, no extra dmg immune (siamoth) that sets up whirling axes very well.Worldly impact is even more telegraphed than whirling axes. No sword/wh to fully take advantage of stealth.

That's just how I see it. I am actually interested in knowing why a build like the one you proposed might work very well.Does it only work at a high level of play?And does this turn the build into much more of a side noder with the occasional into the fray of mid?

And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting:

Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

I did try a build similar to yours with sic em. I think beastmastery with strength of the pack and honed axes, you can get some crazy crazy high whirling defense (i've hit 30k) once you get to 25 might. I think with siamoth you can definitely still win 1v1s (maybe even add smokescale over bird) and in a team fight if a team can CC someone for you and you, you could smoke assault -> team CC -> Quickness whirling defense for some insta death.

Mainly lb/gs is always going to be a roamer. Personally, I just pushed this scrapper because 80% of the time i can get a quick kill and I can kill them way faster than my teammates can and I'd rather kill him than have 1 or 2 teammates stalemated against him That being said, LB/GS does quite well vs strength warrior. If I can economically survive the rampage, Its actually a really easy fight. I've also had little trouble with chronos. That being said, boon beast would destroy my ranger build and so would condi mirage (both of which I believe are still semi viable for side noding) so although maybe a variation of this build COULD side node, I certainly wouldn't want to. I think it would be similar to how USA does their comp. Zeromis is a "side noder" but he really isn't.

The synergy of whirling defense dmg + shared stances really turns the tide in mid fights.And that's without speccing for amazing whirling defense #'s

Big Rom FanTell him "you're such a lad."

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And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting:

Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

@jcbroe.4329 Missed your presence on the forums. Glad you posted the questions, was wondering the same.

I want to understand why this build works.

My initial impression of gs/smokescale and oppressive superiority...Meh/ugh.Because it seems like it's a very 'all in' build.

I'm Not a fan of gs, never have been. It doesn't allow me to evade around a node like sw does. It's very all in.Jump in, do dmg, pull off super combo and if that fails, a half a$$3d retreat and block.It doesn't buy me enough time to get into owl or to heal like sw would.

No shared stances= meh..for what, 10 percent extra dmg? Is that really worth it and why?

No siamoth= no boons, no extra dmg immune (siamoth) that sets up whirling axes very well.Worldly impact is even more telegraphed than whirling axes. No sword/wh to fully take advantage of stealth.

That's just how I see it. I am actually interested in knowing why a build like the one you proposed might work very well.Does it only work at a high level of play?And does this turn the build into much more of a side noder with the occasional into the fray of mid?

And here I was about to test a build I've been thinking of since the patch and the way things are shifting:

Question regarding the build/gameplay; what role(s) are you playing with that build? I saw you rotating into the Scrapper but I'm assuming that's because it was a favorable fight/matchup for you or it could've been easily +1'd, but are you actually playing a sidenode fighter with this build, or more of a +1/roaming damage style?

I ask because I can't imagine this being a good sidenode build the way that the "standard" (possible meta shift, who knows if it's standard) boon build would be. Especially against a Strength Spellbreaker or Chrono.

I did try a build similar to yours with sic em. I think beastmastery with strength of the pack and honed axes, you can get some crazy crazy high whirling defense (i've hit 30k) once you get to 25 might. I think with siamoth you can definitely still win 1v1s (maybe even add smokescale over bird) and in a team fight if a team can CC someone for you and you, you could smoke assault -> team CC -> Quickness whirling defense for some insta death.

Mainly lb/gs is always going to be a roamer. Personally, I just pushed this scrapper because 80% of the time i can get a quick kill and I can kill them way faster than my teammates can and I'd rather kill him than have 1 or 2 teammates stalemated against him That being said, LB/GS does quite well vs strength warrior. If I can economically survive the rampage, Its actually a really easy fight. I've also had little trouble with chronos. That being said, boon beast would destroy my ranger build and so would condi mirage (both of which I believe are still semi viable for side noding) so although maybe a variation of this build COULD side node, I certainly wouldn't want to. I think it would be similar to how USA does their comp. Zeromis is a "side noder" but he really isn't.

The synergy of whirling defense dmg + shared stances really turns the tide in mid fights.And that's without speccing for amazing whirling defense #'s

Big Rom FanTell him "you're such a lad."

I've been very, very busy at work, not really playing PvP all that dedicated-ly and focusing mainly on WvW with my guild(s) and friends. It's a different sort of challenge and I've picked and learned a lot, but I haven't been playing ranger a ton compared to my other classes and I haven't really felt the need to speak here with how stagnant the game and discussions are from a Ranger perspective.

That said, I tried out some builds last night and playing damage like Eurantien suggested easily blew the experience out of the water.

The whole side node experience right now is just awful. Tether Strength Warriors Tethering you into Rampage and one shotting you, which they can basically do every solo engagement on a side point, unkillable Scrappers you get stuck fighting all day, and the clone and cancer spam that still exists with Mirage just due to its design with all the visual clutter and detargeting....yeah, if I'm going to sidenode again before the next balance patch I'll be playing my Spellbreaker or Scrapper.

With a damage setup though, I could end fights before they started, I could get quick kills in teamfights and gain momentum, and I wasn't stuck trying to compete for an overcrowded sidenode role. Granted, it was squishy, especially the way Eurantien plays it, but the reward payoff was massive. I ate dirt a lot more than I'm used to, granted, but I think that's more a symptom of the build and role transition than it was efficacy.

Edit:As a personal preference I'm not certain that Marksmanship is all that useful to me. The amount of time I'm underutilizing the traits because I'm not using GS or their situational conditions makes the traitline harder to run for me. Eura has always been better, maybe the best, at utilizing the full extent of the LB/GS setup though, so he's definitely getting more mileage out of it. For me personally, I ended up more with what @"Sol.4310" was working with by using WS setups:

Here's the staple:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATBnEqAtCiN8Cs8ilCBLP7udLvNdgV3L4pLMDCAlI9DA-jpBXAB5WG45HAQwHCgjvAAieEAAY/BAI left the last slot blank because it's going to be Signet of Stone or QZ or Lightning Reflexes or something like that, but it will vary wildly with preference and playtime. I'm not too sure on the heal and whether or not WHAO is worth trying over Troll or not.

Here's my current theorycraft since Sol was also working on a similar hybridized build like it:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBjYD5kQFoVQshXglXsMJYORuLXmrJA84mA552fbytEpfA-jpxHQBA4IAYvyA+7CAwwHAgyOIAcY/BA

I don't think the second one will work as well as the first, it might be too hybridized, but you still get the unblockable from Warhorn 5 and can still setup a devastating combo with a little more effort, so it was worth at least throwing the theorycraft out there.

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@jcbroe.4329 I think both of these are strong builds, my only issue with them is they do not excel at anything. Sure, they can kill other dps classes decently well but seem to have little chance of killing warriors and no chance of killing scrappers.

The reason I am liking marksmanship at the moment is because it offers you so much more damage to be able to quickly kill things (something I felt ranger has always lacked - not enough damage). With Marksmanship I am not really bound by the 4 -> 2 longbow combo. I can Rapid fire, burn a dodge -> knockback -> interrupt -> proccing all the dps trait increases and hit someone for a 6-9k auto attack. This essentially turns longbow into a weapon with two separate bursts instead of one.

On top of that, Clarion Bond is actually amazing. I can not only leap through my smokescale field for stealth but even when i'm in longbow I can swap pets to get stealth (or double up on stealth. Moreover, when I swap to the owl the owl gets an opening strike proc from clarion bond and then I can buff that with maul and get a quickness F2. I have had the bird hit for 10k because of this set up.

Then of course, I still have all the good old GS burst combos. A counterattack -> anything is now deadly. A maul self buff -> gs throw can do about 8k. There is just so many more damage options with marksmanship.

All that said, I think owl, sic em, and zerker, might be a little too all in. I have been testing swapping owl for siamoth, and sic em for dolyak stance and although I haven't killed any scrappers 1v1 yet, I have felt a lot stronger in prolonged fights due to the ability to have 2 invulns, more CC, and extra stability. In this case, I might not get as big damage numbers without sic em, but If I get an interrupt combo someone is still dying.

@EnderzShadow.2506The nerf to the stance durations has made stance sharing a very undesirable trait imo. The only reason I would take it now is to try and share the boons from moa stance and dolyak stance to my pet (and maybe my teammates) without running nature magic. The duration on allies is so low it's really not worth it to share stances for their effects and the duration buff on you is negligible, in most cases its a 1s increase and the 10% damage is just a better option at that point.

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