WvW commanders/guilds kicking non-meta classes.

[Helicity.3416]

If you're not running a core zerg build, you generally don't need to be in the squad for the boons etc.

Most open tags have absolutely no problem with you following along and doing your thing (flanking, ganking backline, counterganking etc)

In these activities your not-zerg build will generally be out of range for the boons anyways.

I follow zergs most days doing the above (and helping defend against havoc teams) and I never join squad with my roaming classes. On reset, or if it's required, I log in a zerg build and join the squad.

None of this is difficult to understand, you just have to be aware that it's not you it's your build's place in the meta.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"hobotnicax.7918" said:I see people still don't know how to play soulbeast properly in WvW.Soulbeast is fantastic in a zerg, top 3 class for melee damage in a zerg.I saw someone say in this thread that with a dps meter you'd be bottom? What, the, f? What are you people playing?Melee soulbeast outputs upper mid table damage while still being tanky af and also offering some support, cc, reflects.When I played pure glass backline ranger GS/LB I've been top dps in blob fights so many times I stopped counting.Positioning is key.

Honestly all this ranger hate in WvW is because terrible players come to the game mode and play badly. Yet I've seen more bad rallybot necros, revs and eles in WvW than rangers. But somehow they go unnoticed cause they play meta builds... or are they? How would you know? You assume they're using it, you assume they know how to play their role in a zerg.

Core ranger, I agree, no place in a zerg unfortunately. Druid can be useful with hard cc and heal. Soulbeast is imo top 4 classes for WvW zerg. Again, if built and played right.

Don't believe me? Come to Vabbi, get on my tag and join the revolution.

Strangely enough, Vabbi build site had an "omegalul" on ranger section on builds. Now it explains why you shouldnt play ranger. If you were top dps as ranger, your weavers, necros and heralds sucked horribly, sorry. There is nothing a ranger can do in zergs that another class cant do better. Also do not compare bad players with proper build classes against great players with no blobclasses. When speaking of players at the same skill level, ranger will be always outdpssed, outhealed, outcced. The fact that YOU know how to play a ranger well, speaks for a tiny minority of the class. A mediocre scourge is still more useful than a good ranger.And ranger being top 4 blobclass,i am not buying it. Firebrand, scourge, herald, weaver, fl dd, spellbreaker, healengi, healtemp do stuff better than a ranger. That is objective.

And yet a decent ranger could pinsnipe the tag and make the enemy zerg crumble..99% of rangers are bad at blobbing but there are a few good ones out there that know what to bring and what to do at keytimes such as barrage on the push or knockback shot on the enemy commander or even just tanking up with stone on the push and dropping a maul to WI to instantly down everyone around you for a bag cleann up.

Run 50 ranger squad, pinsnipe everyone, win. How have people not thought of this? Engies can pull comms too, maybe throw some of them in the mix? (a certain eu guild comes to mind)Lemme apply that logic of yours : a good scourge will boonrip and bomb 10 people into oblivion, a good FB will heal reflect and keep his party alive, a good weaver will do huge dps, a good herald wi pressure scourges so his squad will have an easy time to push the enemy, and so on. "barrage on push". This is a joke. Barrage is good only for bombing enemy siege on walls.Also, keep in mind that pinsniping comms is frowned upon, as it shows that you know your squad is bad and cant win otherwise. I know people like ranger class, but in its current state it really offers less than other classes. It excels at roaming.

It doesn't matter to me if valid and effective tactics are frowned upon, its a war zone after all.In fact many used to tell me that baiting enemy zergs onto mendon bridge or pang tunnels then fast building ballistas for spreadshot was cheap and frowned upon, but I'll use what ever advantage I can take.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"hobotnicax.7918" said:I see people still don't know how to play soulbeast properly in WvW.Soulbeast is fantastic in a zerg, top 3 class for melee damage in a zerg.I saw someone say in this thread that with a dps meter you'd be bottom? What, the, f? What are you people playing?Melee soulbeast outputs upper mid table damage while still being tanky af and also offering some support, cc, reflects.When I played pure glass backline ranger GS/LB I've been top dps in blob fights so many times I stopped counting.Positioning is key.

Honestly all this ranger hate in WvW is because terrible players come to the game mode and play badly. Yet I've seen more bad rallybot necros, revs and eles in WvW than rangers. But somehow they go unnoticed cause they play meta builds... or are they? How would you know? You assume they're using it, you assume they know how to play their role in a zerg.

Core ranger, I agree, no place in a zerg unfortunately. Druid can be useful with hard cc and heal. Soulbeast is imo top 4 classes for WvW zerg. Again, if built and played right.

Don't believe me? Come to Vabbi, get on my tag and join the revolution.

Strangely enough, Vabbi build site had an "omegalul" on ranger section on builds. Now it explains why you shouldnt play ranger. If you were top dps as ranger, your weavers, necros and heralds sucked horribly, sorry. There is nothing a ranger can do in zergs that another class cant do better. Also do not compare bad players with proper build classes against great players with no blobclasses. When speaking of players at the same skill level, ranger will be always outdpssed, outhealed, outcced. The fact that YOU know how to play a ranger well, speaks for a tiny minority of the class. A mediocre scourge is still more useful than a good ranger.And ranger being top 4 blobclass,i am not buying it. Firebrand, scourge, herald, weaver, fl dd, spellbreaker, healengi, healtemp do stuff better than a ranger. That is objective.

And yet a decent ranger could pinsnipe the tag and make the enemy zerg crumble..99% of rangers are bad at blobbing but there are a few good ones out there that know what to bring and what to do at keytimes such as barrage on the push or knockback shot on the enemy commander or even just tanking up with stone on the push and dropping a maul to WI to instantly down everyone around you for a bag cleann up.Though here is still the point:

you dont need to be in squad and on commander to do that

.

nerp, you do not. Just follow comm regardless of his preferences.A good person will make do and a better comm will make it work.

Still, doesnt really explain WHY the ranger should be in squad. And take boons while giving nothing in return.

I would laugh my butt off if someone actually said "our squad wiped because that ranger stole our boons"... And believed it.

"oh man a 50 man zerg just wiped 25 of us, we would have won too if that ranger didnt steal our boons".... like, cmon.

There are much better classes than ranger in a zerg. Ranger offers pretty much nothing of value in a zerg, unlike other classes. You may try to dodge the "what does the ranger bring to the zerg to justify a spot in it?" question again and again, like you do. It wont make the ranger useful.

Its useful to those who know how to play it. If people are ungrateful for it, then so be it.

Im not the sort of person that dictates what others should be doing based off my own personal opinions, which is essentially what people are arguing over now."play my way or dont plat at all" isn't a philosophy I follow.

A ranger is very helpful to me, I place more value onto those players who are skilled enough to pull it off and encourage those who cant to keep trying.

Vague answer, as expected. Good day!

It's not everyday someone expects an answer to a question they never asked but ok, good day to you too sir!

You have dodged the question 'what does the ranger bring to justify it being in a zerg? "many times. Now, if youre trying to" troll", try harder.

Oh I went over that already inadvertently but it doesn't appear to be the answer you want to hear.

Seeing as youre so inquisitive and fixated on as to why someone might play Ranger, the short answer is because it's fun.

Every player has a right to be on the field regardless of class choice.

No trolling here, Ive responded politely to all of your posts.

Its fun to those who like it, sure. Not efficient. And every player has the right to be on the field, sure. But this thread was about a ranger getting kicked out of a squad, not out of the map. As ranger in its current state is far from good, people have every right to not want em in squads.Maybe my replies arent to your liking, I understand. But please stay on the topic at hand, instead of trying to detail it into something else.Have fun! See you on the battlefield if youre eu

and this is a golden example of why they say you shouldn't be dragged down and beaten with experience, you just regurgitated everything I just said aswell..

Thanks for the headache but Im done with this nonsense.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

I guess you don't tag?

I guess you don't manage your maps?

So you don't tag eh. I suggest you start tagging often first.

Also, since you assume people assuming others don't do what they do. Then, base on what "assumption" that you assumed they didn't already tried? Again, try tagging first.

Edit: Btw, tagging for a day doesn't count, make sure you committed a number of days per week for at least couple of month, then come back to us with your results.

[hobotnicax.7918]

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a00915_050133f6912e4f719ca5ca02985069ab~mv2.gifWhere were all the pro FB's healing tag? haha

[reddie.5861]

@Princ.3598 said:(Posted this on reddit but will here aswell to maybe hear more opinions)

Hi,

First off I would like to say I'm a fairly new player to WvW, but not the game or PvP (plat there). I have played WvW before but just to get my legendary weapon. Since the mount came out I tried WvW again and found that It's enjoyable if done correctly, especially with coordinated teams in discord.

​

The thing is..I'm a soulbeast. And the commanders don't want me in their teams. In our server, there is one prevalent guild that runs WvW and tags and I got told to basically switch to meta wvw classes or else I'm just not welcome in the raid. So after waiting in a 50-100man queue, all I can do is try to follow the commander as some outcasted class that shouldnt be there in the first place.

​

It definitely shifted my perspective on WvW a bit. While I understand where they are coming from since the goal is to..win. Just doesnt feel good.

EDIT: I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

Thoughts?

if ur leaving when squad filling up the commander is just a retard. cus there is no point to kick you out at this point u just give them more sustain even tho people will dissagree with me but ur +1 person so 1 hit u might soak up while other person soaks the other being i ngroup gives u boons or maybe even a fb healing u so ull stay up while if u wouldnt be there some1 might have died.

its complex to explain but if squad not full commander should take anything he most likely will cry that ur just gonna be a rally bot but u will be the same outside squad and even worse of a rally bot when out of squad.

[Tinnel.4369]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

I guess you don't tag?

I guess you don't manage your maps?

So you don't tag eh. I suggest you start tagging often first.

Also, since you assume people assuming others don't do what they do. Then, base on what "assumption" that you assumed they didn't already tried? Again, try tagging first.

Edit: Btw, tagging for a day doesn't count, make sure you committed a number of days per week for at least couple of month, then come back to us with your results.

Say what?

I'm already giving you my results. If you use classes properly, you can make use of everyone and better manage a map.

I'm not disputing anyone's right to run their squad as they please. Simply answering the OP and giving a perspective he, and others, can use as they please.

This really has nothing to do with tagging or not tagging, but for the record, I've both followed you on HoD and fought against you from elsewhere. Nagging people about their repping and talking about your fapping every few minutes isn't really 'commanding' I don't think.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

I guess you don't tag?

I guess you don't manage your maps?

So you don't tag eh. I suggest you start tagging often first.

Also, since you assume people assuming others don't do what they do. Then, base on what "assumption" that you assumed they didn't already tried? Again, try tagging first.

Edit: Btw, tagging for a day doesn't count, make sure you committed a number of days per week for at least couple of month, then come back to us with your results.

Say what?

I'm already giving you my results. If you use classes properly, you can make use of everyone and better manage a map.

I'm not disputing anyone's right to run their squad as they please. Simply answering the OP and giving a perspective he, and others, can use as they please.

This really has nothing to do with tagging or not tagging, but for the record, I've both followed you on HoD and fought against you from elsewhere. Nagging people about their repping and talking about your kitten every few minutes isn't really 'commanding' I don't think.

Uh huh. You telling people how a can tag could do things so in order to back up your lecture, shouldn't you at least have the experience yourself as a tag? Otherwise, isn't that backseat driver?

[Tinnel.4369]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

I guess you don't tag?

I guess you don't manage your maps?

So you don't tag eh. I suggest you start tagging often first.

Also, since you assume people assuming others don't do what they do. Then, base on what "assumption" that you assumed they didn't already tried? Again, try tagging first.

Edit: Btw, tagging for a day doesn't count, make sure you committed a number of days per week for at least couple of month, then come back to us with your results.

Say what?

I'm already giving you my results. If you use classes properly, you can make use of everyone and better manage a map.

I'm not disputing anyone's right to run their squad as they please. Simply answering the OP and giving a perspective he, and others, can use as they please.

This really has nothing to do with tagging or not tagging, but for the record, I've both followed you on HoD and fought against you from elsewhere. Nagging people about their repping and talking about your kitten every few minutes isn't really 'commanding' I don't think.

Uh huh. You telling people how a can tag could do things so in order to back up your lecture, shouldn't you at least have the experience yourself as a tag? Otherwise, isn't that backseat driver?

Where do you keep getting that I don't tag? Manage your squad as you will, the results are clear.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

I guess you don't tag?

I guess you don't manage your maps?

So you don't tag eh. I suggest you start tagging often first.

Also, since you assume people assuming others don't do what they do. Then, base on what "assumption" that you assumed they didn't already tried? Again, try tagging first.

Edit: Btw, tagging for a day doesn't count, make sure you committed a number of days per week for at least couple of month, then come back to us with your results.

Say what?

I'm already giving you my results. If you use classes properly, you can make use of everyone and better manage a map.

I'm not disputing anyone's right to run their squad as they please. Simply answering the OP and giving a perspective he, and others, can use as they please.

This really has nothing to do with tagging or not tagging, but for the record, I've both followed you on HoD and fought against you from elsewhere. Nagging people about their repping and talking about your kitten every few minutes isn't really 'commanding' I don't think.

Uh huh. You telling people how a can tag could do things so in order to back up your lecture, shouldn't you at least have the experience yourself as a tag? Otherwise, isn't that backseat driver?

Where do you keep getting that I don't tag? Manage your squad as you will, the results are clear.

The fact that you avoided answering to my post of that "You don't tag eh" with other non-related comments.

Furthermore, a person that tag regularly won't give that kind of native idealistic comment either, people will do what they want to do, not jsut because you want them or ask them to do it, unless what you want and asked for align with their interest. OP still gonna run ranger and follow a zerg, he is not gonna scout or do whatever roaming things.

I suggest you tag up often.

[Tinnel.4369]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

I guess you don't tag?

I guess you don't manage your maps?

So you don't tag eh. I suggest you start tagging often first.

Also, since you assume people assuming others don't do what they do. Then, base on what "assumption" that you assumed they didn't already tried? Again, try tagging first.

Edit: Btw, tagging for a day doesn't count, make sure you committed a number of days per week for at least couple of month, then come back to us with your results.

Say what?

I'm already giving you my results. If you use classes properly, you can make use of everyone and better manage a map.

I'm not disputing anyone's right to run their squad as they please. Simply answering the OP and giving a perspective he, and others, can use as they please.

This really has nothing to do with tagging or not tagging, but for the record, I've both followed you on HoD and fought against you from elsewhere. Nagging people about their repping and talking about your kitten every few minutes isn't really 'commanding' I don't think.

Uh huh. You telling people how a can tag could do things so in order to back up your lecture, shouldn't you at least have the experience yourself as a tag? Otherwise, isn't that backseat driver?

Where do you keep getting that I don't tag? Manage your squad as you will, the results are clear.

The fact that you avoided answering to my post of that "You don't tag eh" with other non-related comments.

Furthermore, a person that tag regularly won't give that kind of native idealistic comment either, people will do what they want to do, not jsut because you want them or ask them to do it, unless what you want and asked for align with their interest. OP still gonna run ranger and follow a zerg, he is not gonna scout or do whatever roaming things.

I suggest you tag up often.

Are you saying you're making assumptions? I thought you tried to articulate something against that.

Regardless, trying really hard not to make this a match-up thread. Thus, keep fighting the good fight bud.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

I guess you don't tag?

I guess you don't manage your maps?

So you don't tag eh. I suggest you start tagging often first.

Also, since you assume people assuming others don't do what they do. Then, base on what "assumption" that you assumed they didn't already tried? Again, try tagging first.

Edit: Btw, tagging for a day doesn't count, make sure you committed a number of days per week for at least couple of month, then come back to us with your results.

Say what?

I'm already giving you my results. If you use classes properly, you can make use of everyone and better manage a map.

I'm not disputing anyone's right to run their squad as they please. Simply answering the OP and giving a perspective he, and others, can use as they please.

This really has nothing to do with tagging or not tagging, but for the record, I've both followed you on HoD and fought against you from elsewhere. Nagging people about their repping and talking about your kitten every few minutes isn't really 'commanding' I don't think.

Uh huh. You telling people how a can tag could do things so in order to back up your lecture, shouldn't you at least have the experience yourself as a tag? Otherwise, isn't that backseat driver?

Where do you keep getting that I don't tag? Manage your squad as you will, the results are clear.

The fact that you avoided answering to my post of that "You don't tag eh" with other non-related comments.

Furthermore, a person that tag regularly won't give that kind of native idealistic comment either, people will do what they want to do, not jsut because you want them or ask them to do it, unless what you want and asked for align with their interest. OP still gonna run ranger and follow a zerg, he is not gonna scout or do whatever roaming things.

I suggest you tag up often.

Are you saying you're making assumptions? I thought you tried to articulate something against that.

Regardless, trying really hard not to make this a match-up thread. Thus, keep fighting the good fight bud.

Well, your comment history which filled with mostly havoc/roaming related posts don't suggest you tag up regularly either.

Anyway, whatever help you sleep well at night.

[javascript.7924]

anet needs to get rid of all the servers, create 3 mega servers with a "casual" mode and a "elitist" mode. Then when you go into wvw you chose which mode you want to play

[Strider Pj.2193]

@"javascript.7924" said:anet needs to get rid of all the servers, create 3 mega servers with a "casual" mode and a "elitist" mode. Then when you go into wvw you chose which mode you want to play

Yes, because getting your whole guild into one instance is simple.

And the ‘casual’ crowd doesn’t need a commander.

[Graymalkyn.8076]

A strong commander can take what he's given and make it work. A weak commander will rely on meta builds only. If, as a commander, you rely on a meta build only group, then you should probably work on your leadership skills.

Are some builds better in WVW? Of course. And it's nice to have those in your squad. especially if there's a decent player at the keyboard. And really that's the key...the player. And their skill level cannot be assessed simply by looking at the class they choose to play.

[Nightshade.2570]

So, As a WvW Vet and a Commander on and off over the years, let me just say this.I first off lead a group that accepts everyone. This is because we are a group of many many groups made up into one. We run later at night so it is imperative to condense numbers of players to fight off the large groups we are often hit with.

However, we are fun oriented, not a serious group and mostly looking to hold things for the server and take things for them. A serious group would need to dedicate itself to WvW metaclasses, as that is what they will end up fighting against. It's not so much that theirs an open squad space I should be in it, its more like adding you to the squad will be viewed (this is not my personal opinion just a general belief out there) as weakening it against other squads that are using the particular skills needed to fight each other.

Classes with large amounts of area damage, good healing support are what every squad is going to generally lean towards and unfortunately Rangers/soulbeasts have been more of a roaming class (small scale fights, single player damage oriented) for a long time now. The Soulbeast was close to getting into squads with stances but then things just changed and it just didn't become viable compared to other classes that could do everything better in large scale fights.

I am sorry your struggling with this side of WvW you are a valuable resource to the game regardless of what you play. New players or long term that stick around are what is needed to keep the flow of the game.

Some servers are widely known for a very elitist mentality and my only suggestion here is to, find a commander that is more open to all classes to follow or look for a server with a different attitude about things where there maybe more commanders willing to snap you up.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Graymalkyn.8076" said:A strong commander can take what he's given and make it work. A weak commander will rely on meta builds only. If, as a commander, you rely on a meta build only group, then you should probably work on your leadership skills.

Are some builds better in WVW? Of course. And it's nice to have those in your squad. especially if there's a decent player at the keyboard. And really that's the key...the player. And their skill level cannot be assessed simply by looking at the class they choose to play.

The reason meta builds are meta builds is because they are what delivers the best performance and results in the hands of the most skilled commanders.......which is why they are the meta builds.

Do I seriously have to state this on the WvW forums?

:trollface: much?

[ArchonWing.9480]

There are certain limits set by the game itself though. You can be the best player in the world and join a t4 fractal with 0 agony resist. You'll still be insta-kicked because nobody has a reason to believe you are anything but a leech. A group with insufficient core classes can win, but there reaches a point where if you don't have the right classes, you're not going to beat a group with a meta comp. I saw a group last night with only 1 guardian in it, and it had trouble. Sure we won some fights and there was one daredevil that was doing a lot of damage to the enemy. But the thing is those are very rare, and even as good as they were cannot provide the boons and especially corrupts that are needed.

And this is what a lot of people miss. You can bring nearly anything and have good performance. But your own performance isn't the same as group performance. It's necessary to field corrupts and stability if you want to do anything against the main zerg and not just pick off their pugs. It does not help we're in a pirateship meta, and most non-meta classes lack a good non-reflectable ranged option. Or at least not as easy to use as rev hammer. Fact is, every meta class supports others. Scourge with barrier/corrupt, Rev with damage + damage reduction, Firebrand with group stability, and Scrapper with stealth/rapid healing/condi clear. These are not things that are trivially replaced.

I'm not saying rangers shouldn't run with the group. Nobody can stop you from running with them. In fact most people are not saying they should not run with the group. More that they don't actually need it as much as other classes. A scourge for example, when played for max utility, will be better off getting stability and cleanses from firebrands rather than slotting it themselves. On the other hand, rangers (all forms) are capable of self-stability/cleanses as well as being able to position to not need it at all.

[Chaba.5410]

@Graymalkyn.8076 said:A strong commander can take what he's given and make it work. A weak commander will rely on meta builds only. If, as a commander, you rely on a meta build only group, then you should probably work on your leadership skills.

Make what work, specifically? Taking down a meta group with a non-meta group? Or avoiding fights and capping stuff without resistance? There ARE limits to what a commander can do with what he's given and a smart commander knows this. I think you are just talking from pride, not from anything practical.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Graymalkyn.8076 said:A strong commander can take what he's given and make it work. A weak commander will rely on meta builds only. If, as a commander, you rely on a meta build only group, then you should probably work on your leadership skills.

Make what work, specifically? Taking down a meta group with a non-meta group? Or avoiding fights and capping stuff without resistance? There ARE limits to what a commander can do with what he's given and a smart commander knows this. I think you are just talking from pride, not from anything practical.

A non-meta group can kill a meta group. The trick is simply hoe you approach the fight. And thats the limits of a lot of commanders. They really don't take advantage of how dynamic The game mode is.

Are you using high ground? Bottle necks? Do you have artillery support? Did you snipe the enemy commander? Did you force the enemy zerg to spread out so they can't take advantage of stacking? Did you force them to trickle in?

Instead of treating it like an actual war. The commanders try to reinact Lord of the rings where there is a nonsensical cluster truck of melee with no arrows, or cannons... Or catapults. Which were used in actual open field combat.

[Kassablanca.5821]

@Graymalkyn.8076 said:A strong commander can take what he's given and make it work. A weak commander will rely on meta builds only. If, as a commander, you rely on a meta build only group, then you should probably work on your leadership skills.

Are some builds better in WVW? Of course. And it's nice to have those in your squad. especially if there's a decent player at the keyboard. And really that's the key...the player. And their skill level cannot be assessed simply by looking at the class they choose to play.

Talk is cheap I like to see u command bunch of thieves and rangers and make it work lol When u go up against enemy with machine gun u better have machine gun too.

[shiri.4257]

@Nightshade.2570 said:So, As a WvW Vet and a Commander on and off over the years, let me just say this.I first off lead a group that accepts everyone. This is because we are a group of many many groups made up into one. We run later at night so it is imperative to condense numbers of players to fight off the large groups we are often hit with.

However, we are fun oriented, not a serious group and mostly looking to hold things for the server and take things for them. A serious group would need to dedicate itself to WvW metaclasses, as that is what they will end up fighting against. It's not so much that theirs an open squad space I should be in it, its more like adding you to the squad will be viewed (this is not my personal opinion just a general belief out there) as weakening it against other squads that are using the particular skills needed to fight each other.

Classes with large amounts of area damage, good healing support are what every squad is going to generally lean towards and unfortunately Rangers/soulbeasts have been more of a roaming class (small scale fights, single player damage oriented) for a long time now. The Soulbeast was close to getting into squads with stances but then things just changed and it just didn't become viable compared to other classes that could do everything better in large scale fights.

I am sorry your struggling with this side of WvW you are a valuable resource to the game regardless of what you play. New players or long term that stick around are what is needed to keep the flow of the game.

Some servers are widely known for a very elitist mentality and my only suggestion here is to, find a commander that is more open to all classes to follow or look for a server with a different attitude about things where there maybe more commanders willing to snap you up.

Could you do a livestream AMA regarding WvW commanding? Much appreciated. so many questions, so little time.

[anduriell.6280]

Ranger main here, tried hard to make it work across both expansions, i moved to scourge and im deppressed more and more each day because i don't like to play with such passive builds as firebrand or scourge.Ranger cant do much in a zerg because of the projectile hate. If you are out from the squad you are only there to finish the downed, nothing more. More bodies are only good if you are not a ressbot for the enemy and because you are not in an squad youll melt if you try to get into the actual fight.

I log in wvw and i know there is a pugmander i try to use scourge.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:SOP= Standard Operating Procedures. If you're not running a META class or build, you are useless. Regardless if the squad is full or not.

Problem is the meta way to play the game or GTFO, this behaviour happens due awfull class design, because one thing is a meta existing for being sightly better or counters some behaviours/tactics, but

what happens its because meta is the only thing that works AKA stack aoe and spam faster than targets.

Its a design and balance issue... its a dev quality problem, the reason why this behavior exists.

And that's why I don't play META, I do my own thing and don't join squads either. Sometimes I like to follow them to watch them wipe tho, lol.

It's funny people say WvW has alot of builds, where every one tends to converge to the same builds and classes :}

/irony.

Yup, yet any time anyone brings up the idea of a PvP like Amulet system, these same people that scream about sticking to the meta also scream about their build diversity.

Class imbalance has nothing to do with amulet system. Some classes are better suited for groups, others for solo/small parties.Ranger still will be useless in blobs. That agenda is getting boring.

Well deppends, i would not mind to have 5 rangers pin sniping overextended players, (AND A BIG CLASS DESIGN ISSUE) issue is the aoe design in this game is the only way to play, reason why other classes stay out of the meta (its called meta because it carrys and hides how bad most players are) if cant aoe spam inor its range ts useless....

That's something that Anet still has to learn.Its a design FLAW that the balance team needs to adress, wich i think they are a bit limited to understand humans and their behaviors, hehehe >:} happens when u put skrits taking care of stuff >:}

[Chaba.5410]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@"Graymalkyn.8076" said:A strong commander can take what he's given and make it work. A weak commander will rely on meta builds only. If, as a commander, you rely on a meta build only group, then you should probably work on your leadership skills.

Make what work, specifically? Taking down a meta group with a non-meta group? Or avoiding fights and capping stuff without resistance? There ARE limits to what a commander can do with what he's given and a smart commander knows this. I think you are just talking from pride, not from anything practical.

A non-meta group can kill a meta group. The trick is simply hoe you approach the fight. And thats the limits of a lot of commanders. They really don't take advantage of how dynamic The game mode is.

Are you using high ground? Bottle necks? Do you have artillery support? Did you snipe the enemy commander? Did you force the enemy zerg to spread out so they can't take advantage of stacking? Did you force them to trickle in?

Instead of treating it like an actual war. The commanders try to reinact Lord of the rings where there is a nonsensical cluster truck of melee with no arrows, or cannons... Or catapults. Which were used in actual open field combat.

And yet I didn't say a non-meta group cannot kill a meta group. Yes, the trick is simply how you approach a fight and there ARE limits to that. Some fights you cannot take at all with what has been "given" and you have to do something else that you may not enjoy.

Moreover, the idea that another player should spend their playtime slogging through what's been "given" in order to pull something out of their hat to "make it work" is why a lot of commanders have quit or simply don't deal with that by only having meta classes in squad. You're asking them to do a lot of individual work to accomplish something that should be team work. I honestly know of no experienced "strong commander" these days that doesn't have a squad of meta builds. And of all the non-meta groups that I've seen kill meta groups, they're composed of players who understand meta enough to counter it and are strong individual players who don't rely upon commanders, not some unorganized group of pugs following a tag.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@"Graymalkyn.8076" said:A strong commander can take what he's given and make it work. A weak commander will rely on meta builds only. If, as a commander, you rely on a meta build only group, then you should probably work on your leadership skills.

Make what work, specifically? Taking down a meta group with a non-meta group? Or avoiding fights and capping stuff without resistance? There ARE limits to what a commander can do with what he's given and a smart commander knows this. I think you are just talking from pride, not from anything practical.

A non-meta group can kill a meta group. The trick is simply hoe you approach the fight. And thats the limits of a lot of commanders. They really don't take advantage of how dynamic The game mode is.

Are you using high ground? Bottle necks? Do you have artillery support? Did you snipe the enemy commander? Did you force the enemy zerg to spread out so they can't take advantage of stacking? Did you force them to trickle in?

Instead of treating it like an actual war. The commanders try to reinact Lord of the rings where there is a nonsensical cluster truck of melee with no arrows, or cannons... Or catapults. Which were used in actual open field combat.

And yet I didn't say a non-meta group cannot kill a meta group. Yes, the trick is simply how you approach a fight and there ARE limits to that. Some fights you cannot take at all with what has been "given" and you have to do something else that you may not enjoy.

Moreover, the idea that another player should spend their playtime slogging through what's been "given" in order to pull something out of their hat to "make it work" is why a lot of commanders have quit or simply don't deal with that by only having meta classes in squad. You're asking them to do a lot of individual work to accomplish something that should be team work. I honestly know of no experienced "strong commander" these days that doesn't have a squad of meta builds. And of all the non-meta groups that I've seen kill meta groups, they're composed of players who understand meta enough to counter it and are strong individual players who don't rely upon commanders, not some unorganized group of pugs following a tag.

Er... I'm not sure how Individual Work is not correlated to team work.

I mean, in a team, you got a job. And you often got to do that job alone, to benefit your team. Sooooo.....