I am not happy with the changes coming to spirits. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I am not happy with the changes coming to spirits.

anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 28, 2019 in Ranger

I'd like to share my point of view of what is coming for the spirits in the next patch, well with the information which has been provided.

First the good

  • I'd like to say i like the idea of the teleporting the spirit to your location. It's not what i would have done, but it's a half way meeting point and somehow solves the issue of very mobile gameplay.
  • The idea of remove the fixed duration and use a life pool instead i find it interesting. Now the spirits will last a bit longer, in perfect situation it should last 78 seconds.

Now all the bad

  • The Elite spirit will last only 33 seconds in the best conditions. (unless you become a healing turret for the spirit and there is nobody else around)
  • The nerf in the passive range is a massive nerf. Now you need them close by which will get them killed before even you get to use them once.
  • The spirits have base health of 7k, which is roughly an autoattack for many classes.
  • The 0,25 cast time for the active sounds nice, however we haven't been told the spirits will actually not spend 2 seconds cast animation once they got teleported to your location.
  • The new mechanic about the life drain is even a bigger nerf. It will impact the spirits in a ways they will die even from a random bleed because of the tiny health pool + life drain.
  • The nerf to the actives to the offensive spirits, having in mind that they will die in the first activation, is uncalled. It's an PbAoE skill which does less damage than the same traps version.
  • The change to the grand master trait, will make the ranger unwanted in raids which was the only content where it was needed. Spirits wont apply the boons periodically anymore.

And what do you think after reading this?
Do you agree with my points?
Do you think spirits will still be used nevertheless?
Do you think System team should have a quick review about the all the changes planed?
Do you think is fair to have the potential duration of the elite spirit to 33 seconds?

Comments

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2019

    Some ritualist spirits worked in a similar way in GW1, but even better.
    Instead losing a fixed amount of health, they lost health based on the number of affected targets.
    A spirit that would prevent damage over 10% of your max health and lost health every time it did that would last longer the less people it had to protect, and a spirit that healed allies would not lose health if allies didn't need healing.

    The way they work could be used to improve this new version o ranger spirits even more. If that was applied to ranger spirits, if the party splits, then the spirits would last longer when they affect a smaller sub-group, and the healing spirit would last longer the less people it has to heal, and it would not lose health for allies in range that are already at full health.

    I like to call that "self-balance". Instead designing for all possible cases, you make the design consider key variables and make them the pivoting part of the mechanic, and the mechanic balances itself as a side-effect.
    Then you no longer have to worry about the design being too good on certain circumstances and too bad in others. You don't even have to worry about extreme cases as they would outright break the mechanic before it can cause problems in those situations.

  • I don't see ranger being unwanted in raids since it appears only the passive pulsed boons are removed. Stuff like 5% extra damage, extra burning, protection etc etc on hit should still apply. Not to mention GoE and GoTL wasn't affected so druid still has a spot in raids for the usual support work.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Doesn't it read like you'd be able to heal them?

    Bite me.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Doesn't it read like you'd be able to heal them?

    will you be able to thou? The minions are the last in the queue which means you may not heal them if there are allies around.
    Also, what happens if you play core or soulbeast? Does it mean the elite will be trash?
    Even as a druid the spirit will expire even before you can reposition it for the second time (40 secs for the active), or you mean the druid will be static? What's the point of the teleport then?

  • DuckDuckBOOM.4097DuckDuckBOOM.4097 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    Doesn't it read like you'd be able to heal them?

    will you be able to thou? The minions are the last in the queue which means you may not heal them if there are allies around.
    Also, what happens if you play core or soulbeast? Does it mean the elite will be trash?
    Even as a druid the spirit will expire even before you can reposition it for the second time (40 secs for the active), or you mean the druid will be static? What's the point of the teleport then?

    I'm speaking strictly from PvE perspective since the spirits, unless changed, die in 1 hit in PvP anyways.

    You can currently heal spirits so I don't see why that would change especially since it does read like you'll be able to manage their health to manage how long they last. With the exception of the elite, all the unique spirit buffs pulse every 3 seconds.

    7415 base health is 556 health every 3 seconds. Nature's vengeance brings it down to 372 health every 3 seconds. Regen is 130 healing per second without any healing power. So if you are solo, regen alone with zero healing power can keep every spirit (aside the elite) if you have NM.

    If you are an actual healing Druid in fotm/raids, staff 2 heals around 450*1.6 = 720 health to every target it passes through. Even without over healing, that's more than enough to keep them alive. This means that frost and sun spirit's buffs can now have 100% up time since you can teleport them around every 20 seconds and heal them. If you spam them every 20 seconds, stone and sun spirit give roughly the same vigor and prot up time from nature's vengeance. So better up time of unique buffs and easy to heal.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    7415 base health is 556 health every 3 seconds. Nature's vengeance brings it down to 372 health every 3 seconds. Regen is 130 healing per second without any healing power. So if you are solo, regen alone with zero healing power can keep every spirit (aside the elite) if you have NM.
    If you are an actual healing Druid in fotm/raids, staff 2 heals around 450*1.6 = 720 health to every target it passes through. Even without over healing, that's more than enough to keep them alive. This means that frost and sun spirit's buffs can now have 100% up time since you can teleport them around every 20 seconds and heal them. If you spam them every 20 seconds, stone and sun spirit give roughly the same vigor and prot up time from nature's vengeance. So better up time of unique buffs and easy to heal.

    I get you point, you think you'll be able to heal the spirit. Let's rethink about that:

    • During this week can you check your spirits and check if the get the boons in a raid? Or the healing?

    I mean because from the changes in how the boons and healing was applied first to players, spirits should not receive any boon unless there aren't enouh players around.

    • In this case in a raid you will not be able to share any boon with them, or sharing a very low uptime.
    • Healing is the same. Although it could potentially overflow and be hit with some from the druid, then again what would happen to Soulbeast and Core Ranger? How will the be able to keep the spirit alive?

    So effectively Sprits has been nerfed for anything that is not a Druid, and even then if there are many players around the sustain will be very inconsistent at best.

    • If Anet is to implement this mechanic at least make the ranger to share the regeneration buff with them so they keep at least the base duration.

    Otherwise in my book Anet just nerfed the spirits to the ground as they:

    • Nerfed the spawn time
    • Nerfed the actives
    • Nerfed the ranger of the passives.
  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am still an advocate for the ground targeted summon with a fixed duration, ammo Charges and the active on summon and death.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    >

    • The 0,25 cast time for the active sounds nice, however we haven't been told the spirits will actually not spend 2 seconds cast animation once they got teleported to your location.

    I am quite confident that its a 0.25s cast to summon the spirit to you then the spirit does its 1s or 1.5s animation.
    The spirits will get cleaved out very easy but hopefully for PvP they can still maybe work.

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2019

    Can't say I rightly have it figured out without playing it, let alone hate it just yet. As far as I understand it the spirit active won't auto-kill the spirit anymore but instead take a chunk of health away and teleport it to your location.

    On some spirits that's going to be pretty strong, the water spirit in particular, assuming you have a means of healing it (Druid). AoE heal spam. Positioning is going to matter a lot more.

    I imagine they'll be even stronger in raids and group content where everyone's dog piled onto something.

    PvE cleave doesn't do much to spirits, pets, summons, etc. unless they're specifically targeted which is rare. They'll be a lot weaker in WvW/PvP due to player cleave which doesn't share that quirk.

    Those are my initial thoughts anyway. Can't wait to get my hands on it.

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2019

    I just did Twilight Oasis T4 on my Healing Druid with Spirits. It went very well, but my Spirits kept dying. I can't imagine how easy they will die with the new changes.

    Why would I use Druid over FBrand now ? FBrand can give QUICKNESS, Stability (easily), Aegis (Block>Receiving Damage) and Protection (easily). The only thing Druid ''got'' over is Might stack. It is not that hard to keep Might up with FBrand if you use Staff, Rune of the Pack and Quickness/Might Mantra. So many classes pump up their own Might stacks nowadays. It pushes even more to play FBrand.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2019

    @CETheLucid.3964 said:
    I imagine they'll be even stronger in raids and group content where everyone's dog piled onto something.

    Definitely in wvw they will be useless. In sPVP i have serious doubts it will be of some use, as players once they recognice the spirits will kill them with a couple of autos.

    But my point is in raids how will you manage? I mean if it's a 10 players squad and the actual queue of effects makes the minions the very last to get buffs and heals, so your spririts, which will be exactly in the middle of teh groups (because the actives) will not recive any healing/boons because the limit is usually 5 players around.

    Which means will get the funny meme: "Heal the spirits Druid, you are not healing your spirits Druid!!"

  • Deadvillager.1956Deadvillager.1956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Krispera.5087 said:
    I just did Twilight Oasis T4 on my Healing Druid with Spirits. It went very well, but my Spirits kept dying. I can't imagine how easy they will die with the new changes.

    Why would I use Druid over FBrand now ? FBrand can give QUICKNESS, Stability (easily), Aegis (Block>Receiving Damage) and Protection (easily). The only thing Druid ''got'' over is Might stack. It is not that hard to keep Might up with FBrand if you use Staff, Rune of the Pack and Quickness/Might Mantra. So many classes pump up their own Might stacks nowadays. It pushes even more to play FBrand.

    Well honestly, you wouldnt. The only thing that redeems druid over FB is the massive healing and the braindead might generation. Spirits are a miniscule DPS increase in fractals as only CM encounters last long enough to make them noticeable (as in by the time you have your spirits up, the boss or one of your mates is already dead). Everything else is a burstfest, where glyph of empowerment should be more than enough, if even. FBs have more boons and more damage. From a raid perspective, they supplement each other perfectly, but in 5man content I dont see too much space for a ramp up heavy class like druid.

    That of course does not mean druid is kitten and should never be played in fractals, FB is just the better option.

    For the spirits change, I have to say I am cautiously curious. The repositioning and actual active spell usage sound very nice. I honestly had to look up what the spirits actives actually do as I never used anything but elite spirit for its effect. I also believe you can be able to heal your spirits if required. Just put them slightly off group and give them the occasional staff 5+3 combo.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    They are obviously intending to rework the very passive nature of the spirits. People rarely even used the active skills after they were changed to instantly kill the spirit back in the day. Losing the passively ticking boons is huge, no doubt, but it remains to be seen how good or bad this change will turn out in the long run. Being able to reposition them seems interesting at least.
    Though, I am going to miss some of the fancy shenanigans like leaving the Spirit of Nature somewhere to res peope from range (when you went down at Deimos, teleported over at Xera, etc.).

    I also highly doubt Druids will lose their spot in raids. The damage modifiers provided by our offensive spirits will remain a must-have in 10 man content given everything else the Druid does well.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    I may be missing something but it seems like a nerf to the boons they apply. I like them having a more active play style but over all as a non-raid player I barely ever use them and I feel like I have even less of a reason to use them now.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • Kelieto.6375Kelieto.6375 Member ✭✭

    You're not missing anything. The patch notes straight up say they want spirits to have a "more dynamic gameplay experience". Unfortunately, only the heal and elite spirits have useful base actives while the others only have useful actives when you take the grandmaster trait that makes them give boons.

    While I enjoyed how strong the passive boon output used to be as much as the next guy, you can't really blame them for nerfing it. You could drop down a sun spirit, forget about it and have 66% vigor uptime. Water spirit was perma regen on 10 targets by just placing it down and doing nothing else.

  • Razor.9872Razor.9872 Member ✭✭✭

    If I were to implement this balance, I would add to the trait by making your active spirits be healed by an amount when you heal allies, and damage enemies (in much the same way that AF generation works). That way you can keep them up through active gameplay without having to worry about the allies you're trying to heal keeping you from healing your spirits, or gearing SlB and making spirits useless. Also, I would make the duration of the boons granted by the active effects longer.

    NSPride~

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @Deadvillager.1956 said:
    FBs have more boons and more damage.

    It is still March. Not yet April 1st.

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    @Shadelang.3012 said:
    They still have that UTTERLY STUPID LONG ANIMATION TIME.

    Oh yeah, it was the first thing I tried when the patch went live. It's so bad, LMAO. They nerfed Sun Spirit burn stack (From, 3 stacks of 5 secs to 2 stacks of 4 secs), because you know, you can't let a Druid burn every 20 secs. Are they scared the Druid gonna compete with the Firebrand on Burn Damage ? Because FBrand is already miles away. For a Condi Ranger ? Why would he takes the Sun Spirit, when it just can take another Trap or utility such as Sharpening Stones.

    You wanted to interrupt someone with Storm Spirit 1 sec Daze ? Oh well, think 2 secs before, because it's the time it takes to do whole thing with the self casting/port, then the Spirit animation. It is if it lands, not hit, killed, blinded or CCed. Who am I kidding ? Nobody use Spirits in sPvP.

    Overall, it's an over-complicated mechanic that is shoved down on sPvE Druids that are becoming less and less relevant.

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2019

    So can spirits still be killed by other players? Never mind, just saw they can. So now spirits have health degeneration AND can still take incoming damage...sooooo, wow, OK. ESO it is.

    Doc Von Doom

  • OGDeadHead.8326OGDeadHead.8326 Member ✭✭✭

    Spirits could be decent back when they were able to move. Ever since they took that away, they simply can't get it right anymore because they don't know what to do with them. And it shows.

  • LughLongArm.5460LughLongArm.5460 Member ✭✭✭

    tried it, don't think it usable in PVP, spirits should have at-least 10 times more health and instant action ability for the it to be even considered. Shame....

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    also the hp degenration seems absurdily fast, regeneration cant keep up in any of them.
    Elite just lose life so fast its impossible to keep them alive.

    Anet shoudl remove the degeneration by pulse. Or take into consideration some of our requests and make them mobile again. And means to keep them alive other than wasting the astral form just to keep using the spirit.

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, I see people keep trying to use these new spirits in PvP and it is just sad. Basically a wasted utility slot since they are just instantly destroyed.

    Doc Von Doom

  • scerevisiae.1972scerevisiae.1972 Member ✭✭
    edited March 8, 2019

    I'm extremely disappointed in the changes. They are even worse than before. The elite spirit's healing in WVW was respectable and useful and worth slotting, but now that its healing has been nerfed by 80%, it's really useless and far inferior to the alternatives.

    I don't mind the activate teleportation and degeneration as a mechanic but for spirits to be even remotely worth considering or balanced vs other utility skills, the spirits should be invulnerable to damage (they're spirits, right?) and their longevity solely determined by the degeneration. Even if spirits were invulnerable, the active skills and boons are still fairly weak (except for the elite, which is decent but not amazing).

    Overall IMO they are really really weak and i would never choose spirits over any other utility skill in any game mode as things now stand, so to me the patch was a total fail, 0.5/10.

  • I'm really hurting from the changes, particularly to Nature's Vengeance.

    I think the most egregious thing is that these spirits are clearly designed for melee, on a class which touts itself on character creation as favoring ranged combat. In order to maintain even the small portion of boon uptime that's still possible, you have to hit the active skill as soon as it's available, which will move the spirit to you--so you'd better be in melee, otherwise the active is wasted and the spirits may now be too far away to benefit your allies. (Let's remember that ranged weapons generally are between 900 and 1200 distance, or even 1500 in the ranger's case, yet the new spirit radius is only 600.) Either this was designed with the "everyone stack in one spot" playstyle in mind, or they just forgot that rangers might use ranged weapons.

    That aside, Nature's Vengeance lost more than half of its boon uptime, and to add insult to injury the patch notes were written as though it was a buff. "Durations have increased," they say, several lines away from where they mention that they now only proc on a 20 second active ability rather than passively every 3 seconds.

    On a personal level, I've been running a spirit-focused build for years and I feel like my character has been taken away from me. Weren't spirits buffed just a few patches ago because they weren't good enough? Then suddenly now they need to be overhauled into a form that's not only far weaker, but plays drastically differently? Because druids are too good so let's nerf core ranger abilities?

    I've watched so many things get overhauled rather than just tweaked. My favorite example is how the trait named "Strider's Defense" has been changed so much that it's no longer related to Strider and is no longer defensive. Without a clear vision, I can't trust that anything about my character will be the same from patch to patch, and as a person who gets invested in characters, that's too much risk for me to endure.

  • From Raiders Druid perspective. I had the chance to try them W6 B1.

    The Bad:

    • You don't get the boons anymore.

    The good:

    • Spirts do not die anymore. You can Heal them!
    • You can cast their actives at the spots you need them! You can use their actives!
    • Spirit of Nature: You can revive 1-4 player every 30 seconds!! No need for healscurges.
    • Waterspirit: You can actively heal yourself and the group with it now. No need to recast it anymore or let it passively stand around.
    • Stonespirit: I can use its muddle abbillity when and where I need it. I can buff Protection when it's needed.
    • Rest: 100% uptime!!

    From a raiders perspective this is huge!

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    It's a pretty good change having played with it. Spirit of Natures Renewal has new utility as a big AoE condi cleanse.

    It doesn't sacrifice health as long as it doesn't revive someone and with the new ability to teleport on spirit active use, you could also elect to revive a downed cluster of people regardless of where you originally put down the spirit.

    The Water Spirit's active is far more dependable now and it puts out a big heal in bursts which is interesting.

    Sun Spirit active is AoE burning + blind wherever you want it. Stone Spirit can teleport around and apply AoE immobilize. Storm Spirit is an AoE daze on a 20 second CD wherever you need it.

    Can't say they were "buffed", but changed to accommodate the more active play style as opposed to the former passive style. It's a great QoL change overall. Spirits still aren't a great choice in PvP or WvW but they weren't before either.

    As people figure it out I'm sure this will actually end up improving support builds, especially stone spirit and storm spirit. Might see druids come to pull off some crazy break bar shenanigans.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    More difficult to provide stability & vigor. Healing spirits gives astral energy, but it also takes 1 heal away (number of targets).

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    More difficult to provide stability & vigor. Healing spirits gives astral energy, but it also takes 1 heal away (number of targets).

    um there is no point to bring water spirit if you run druid. Your glyph has 19 secs cd vs 20, heals for more, has a bigger radius and generate more LF (Verdant etching).
    The spirits arent brought for their actives, Druid is not there for dps.

    And i seriously doubt you can keep them alive with a soulbeast and much less in an squad, although i would love for anybody to prove wrong.

  • @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    More difficult to provide stability & vigor. Healing spirits gives astral energy, but it also takes 1 heal away (number of targets).

    um there is no point to bring water spirit if you run druid. Your glyph has 19 secs cd vs 20, heals for more, has a bigger radius and generate more LF (Verdant etching).
    The spirits arent brought for their actives, Druid is not there for dps.

    And i seriously doubt you can keep them alive with a soulbeast and much less in an squad, although i would love for anybody to prove wrong.

    50% up time on 10 target regen. Doesn't matter in double druid+WH regen groups but that's a huge difference in solo druid groups. The passive is also decent bonus healing to the group. Excess healing is now more important since the more group healing you bring that tops off your allies at 100% health, the more likely spirits stay alive since your extra heals will spill over into them.

    In fotm, the 10 target regen from water spirit will likely keep all your other spirits alive indefinitely.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2019

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    50% up time on 10 target regen. Doesn't matter in double druid+WH regen groups but that's a huge difference in solo druid groups. The passive is also decent bonus healing to the group. Excess healing is now more important since the more group healing you bring that tops off your allies at 100% health, the more likely spirits stay alive since your extra heals will spill over into them.

    In fotm, the 10 target regen from water spirit will likely keep all your other spirits alive indefinitely.

    What do you mean with "50% uptime regen"? you get only 5 seconds regen when casting the active that is every 20 seconds CD and i have my doubts it only applies to 5 allies. Passive has an internal CD of 10 seconds.
    You get ~800 heal every 10 seconds and does not increase your LF. All spirits has 8-10 seconds internal CD for passives except the Frost one.

    I dont get why you would defend the state of the spirits as they are right now, i don't get why spirits are considered to be used in pve other than frost. I mean don't the sun spirit applies burning once every 8 seconds by ally with the buff? Whats the point to be able to apply 1 stack of burning every 8 seconds?

    And no, i don't think a soulbeast can keep alive any spirits with just the regen.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    5s base regen = 10s regen with 100% boon duration = 50% uptime on typical PvE support druid (without factoring in alacrity which could increase uptime further).
    And it only takes about 100 hp/s to keep traited non-elite spirits alive (unless they take additional dmg ofc), so technically regen only is enough, even with zero healing power.
    Sun spirit applies 2 stacks of burning for 2,5s (~4-5s on a condi build). Seems low dmg, but i guess it adds up when procced by 5-10 players.
    Don't think the changes were impactful. Nothing has really changed.

  • @anduriell.6280 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    50% up time on 10 target regen. Doesn't matter in double druid+WH regen groups but that's a huge difference in solo druid groups. The passive is also decent bonus healing to the group. Excess healing is now more important since the more group healing you bring that tops off your allies at 100% health, the more likely spirits stay alive since your extra heals will spill over into them.

    In fotm, the 10 target regen from water spirit will likely keep all your other spirits alive indefinitely.

    What do you mean with "50% uptime regen"? you get only 5 seconds regen when casting the active that is every 20 seconds CD and i have my doubts it only applies to 5 allies. Passive has an internal CD of 10 seconds.
    You get ~800 heal every 10 seconds and does not increase your LF. All spirits has 8-10 seconds internal CD for passives except the Frost one.
    I dont get why you would defend the state of the spirits as they are right now, i don't get why spirits are considered to be used in pve other than frost. I mean don't the sun spirit applies burning once every 8 seconds by ally with the buff? Whats the point to be able to apply 1 stack of burning every 8 seconds?

    And no, i don't think a soulbeast can keep alive any spirits with just the regen.

    As Umbra mentioned, druid support runs with 100% boon duration. My group also checked before starting actual boss fights and the boons from passive and active spirit abilities still hit 10 people. I've also looked at logs after to confirm this. So 5 seconds becomes 10 seconds on 10 people every 20 seconds. That's 50% uptime. In the case of fotm, that's 5 ppl + 5 allied npcs.

    Traited stone spirit is 90% up time on protection on 10 people. That's still really strong.

    Even with no bonus condition damage, 750 from 25 might and 100 from banner of strength means that sun spirit is at minimum 1.6k DPS in a 10 person squad. Condi dmg and duration obviously buffs that further. The active is now a bonus 8 seconds base burning from the druid. Traited sun spirit also brings roughly 30% up time on vigor. This was a major nerf although I think the nerf was warranted. It's also still worth it.

    I have never mentioned anything about soul beast keeping spirits alive. Just that regen with zero healing power can keep them alive. I made that statement to show how little healing they require. If you are a soul beast in a raid or fotm, your job isn't to keep the spirits alive. Just position them. Your healer keeps them alive from over healing your team. Alternatively, they expire... just like they did before. Then you resummon them... just like you did before.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2019

    But do they really benefit from the banner and the might? With this im saying: in wvw it is very difficult to share boons and heals with the spirits because there is always 10 players in your surroundings, as such your spirits don’t get any benefits.

    Do they in raids? I mean they are always with 10 players (maybe not in qading but the rest are mostly one boss)
    Have you checked the spirits are actually having those boons and buffs all the time with a full raid squad?

    Also think: if they get the boons and buffs obviously there is a player whom is not getting them....

  • tested the spirit changes, they are 100% useless for WVW, and now the elite spirit (which was the only skill usable in WVW) is now also useless in WVW.

    So no i couldn't be any more disappointed in the changes.

  • @anduriell.6280 said:

    But do they really benefit from the banner and the might? With this im saying: in wvw it is very difficult to share boons and heals with the spirits because there is always 10 players in your surroundings, as such your spirits don’t get any benefits.

    Do they in raids? I mean they are always with 10 players (maybe not in qading but the rest are mostly one boss)
    Have you checked the spirits are actually having those boons and buffs all the time with a full raid squad?

    Also think: if they get the boons and buffs obviously there is a player whom is not getting them....

    They have and will always been useless in WvW. I just accept that so long as they have health. Stances or glyphs have a better chance of being buffed to work better as support there. Sun spirit applies a buff to allies. Your allies do bonus burning based on their condition damage. In PvE, banners and might are always on your allies. It's not about might/banners buffing the spirit itself.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70845/how-is-your-experience-with-the-new-spirits-in-pve-and-wvw#latest

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    Pre-patch Samarog average group up time: 67% stone spirit, 69% storm spirit, 59% frost spirit and 72% sun spirit.
    Post-patch Samarog average group up time: 88% stone spirit, 97.75% storm spirit, 83.4% sun spirit. Idk why frost spirit isn't showing up in the log right now.

    **Those are some pretty big differences! ** Samarog is a fight where the group moves around too. Non mobile fight: I was getting 99.8% spirit group up time on MO. The reason I'm specifically mentioning Samarog is because the spirit actives are useful. Stone for extra immob and storm for extra CC.

    Yes I have tried them. On my first try, I was getting better up time with the new spirits buffs and boons than before. Exception was sun spirit's vigor which was nerfed. Again, it's not about giving your spirits buffs/boons. Staff 2 heals everything as it circles around the boss. Furthermore, if your 10 allies are at 100% health, extra healing will go to your spirits.

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