Double XP gone, and so are the players - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Double XP gone, and so are the players

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  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You know a see a lot of WvW people yelling about how we've had this other complaints for years and now Anet goes and does this thing that we don't want so therefore it's okay to act really negatively and aggressively when a group of new people come in.

    Is it expected? Maybe.
    Is it going to encourage new people to try out the format and stay? Unlikely.

    In every game I've ever played, hard core communities tend to end up being their own worst enemies.

    Even one of the replied I got in this thread talked about people going outside and learning what they need to do before they enter. Well some people learn that way and some people want to learn by experience. This is the difference between how people learn. I'm not bad at WvW and I'm in there sometimes...I'm approaching rank 900 at the moment, but I tell you straight up, I didn't go to an external site to learn stuff for years. I learned by listening to commanders and guildies that played as I went, because that's how I learn best.

    But this idea that we want more people playing the mode, but we want them to play it X way is just the kind of thing that drives a lot of new people away.

    The whole process should be one of filtering. You get thousands of new people to try something and dozens or a hundred stay and learn and grow. It might even be more, people saw it as an opportunity to grow the mode instead of an invasion into their mode.

    But no, they believe, deeply believe that this influx of players that came is going to stay if you increase a specific reward. No, they'll stay, at least some of them, if you make it more welcoming. WvW is not often welcoming.

    One of the main reasons people in my guild get into it at all is because I take the time to show them what's what when I go in. I teach them the format. I explain what is expected. I give them time to adjust and adapt and some people WvW quite a lot on my guild...not many but some. I promise you some of those people wouldn't do it based on the reception they get from hard core WvWers.

    You want to build your community, try to put yourself in the shoes of those trying it for the first time.

    And yes, that's what this post is complaining about. People not staying after an event. I mean I know for a fact some have, because a couple of people in my guild have, and that's just one guild on one server. But more might have stayed if they'd been welcomed instead of bullied.

  • Slick.7164Slick.7164 Member ✭✭

    More lag and less wvw concentration. Same kitten, diff day

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    You know a see a lot of WvW people yelling about how we've had this other complaints for years and now Anet goes and does this thing that we don't want so therefore it's okay to act really negatively and aggressively when a group of new people come in.

    Actually, no. You are taking those replies and comments as ‘acting aggressively’. Most of us want the mode to thrive. And we’ve given ways to help. And feel as if, whether true or not, that it has been ignored. Like the feedback about likely problems with mount introduction that turned out accurate.

    Is it expected? Maybe.
    Is it going to encourage new people to try out the format and stay? Unlikely.

    In every game I've ever played, hard core communities tend to end up being their own worst enemies.

    True statement. It also is one of the groups that keeps it on life support sometimes.

    Even one of the replied I got in this thread talked about people going outside and learning what they need to do before they enter. Well some people learn that way and some people want to learn by experience. This is the difference between how people learn. I'm not bad at WvW and I'm in there sometimes...I'm approaching rank 900 at the moment, but I tell you straight up, I didn't go to an external site to learn stuff for years. I learned by listening to commanders and guildies that played as I went, because that's how I learn best.

    That would have been me. I asked if they did any research, or asked prior for help learning about the mode, as the point was offered about ‘training raid groups’. But that was never responded to.

    But this idea that we want more people playing the mode, but we want them to play it X way is just the kind of thing that drives a lot of new people away.

    It can. But asking those new players to understand or have an interest in the mode, instead of asking people in the middle of a busy reset to teach them what to do? And several examples of people doing exactly that and being given help, yeah., that makes the WvW players toxic for asking them to do some research first? But I guess the meme of ‘1111111’ has taken hold.

    The whole process should be one of filtering. You get thousands of new people to try something and dozens or a hundred stay and learn and grow. It might even be more, people saw it as an opportunity to grow the mode instead of an invasion into their mode.

    People did. But they also saw it as several other things including an introduction of something that would come with problems that wouldn’t be addressed (as history has demonstrated about several items) and only being introduced to gain revenue for skins, which, while likely being a motivation that was a driving force as said skins came out within a week, is a company’s prerogative.

    But no, they believe, deeply believe that this influx of players that came is going to stay if you increase a specific reward. No, they'll stay, at least some of them, if you make it more welcoming. WvW is not often welcoming.

    It welcomes those who welcome the mode. Don’t walk in new anywhere saying ‘you owe me’.
    And WvW players can be some of the most helpful. If THEY are given a chance.

    One of the main reasons people in my guild get into it at all is because I take the time to show them what's what when I go in. I teach them the format. I explain what is expected. I give them time to adjust and adapt and some people WvW quite a lot on my guild...not many but some. I promise you some of those people wouldn't do it based on the reception they get from hard core WvWers.

    Because they are in your GUILD. They ask.. they don’t demand. They tried to learn. That was the whole point...

    You want to build your community, try to put yourself in the shoes of those trying it for the first time.

    See above. Generally we do. Are there toxic apples? Yep. And they are in WvW too.

    And yes, that's what this post is complaining about. People not staying after an event. I mean I know for a fact some have, because a couple of people in my guild have, and that's just one guild on one server. But more might have stayed if they'd been welcomed instead of bullied.

    Being welcomed is a two way street.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭

    Its great that people complain about how toxic WvW is but fail to realise its the very same point about Fractals and Raids and lets not get started about PvP lol

  • StrawHat.2639StrawHat.2639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Its great that people complain about how toxic WvW is but fail to realise its the very same point about Fractals and Raids and lets not get started about PvP lol

    I my opinion raids (arcdps people,etc) and pvp(saltiest all over my gosh) are way more toxic then WvW...fractals only in t4 nowadays...I used to do t4s often but now found just doing sometimes t2s has little salt.

    Anyways not like the above keeps my interest for long, prefered wvw...

    Sanji
    Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW

    Anet dragon has finally defeated the
    **WvW WarBorn **
    He's over 7000!
    Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging

  • Tiny Doom.4380Tiny Doom.4380 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Graymalkyn.8076 said:

    @tobin.6754 said:
    hate to say this but, we told you so! All the fresh blood left, and the WvW community are stuck with a mount they don't want.

    Then don't use it.

    If a developer adds a mechanic that provides a clear tactical advantage for those who adopt it, not using it means not playing (or at least greatly reducing play time) the game mode (for me). If it were a purely cosmetic option I would agree with you.

    I played a lot of WvW last week. I had the mount but I didn't use it much because I don't like mounts, period. Over the week I followed three particular commanders who had large PUG zergs going several times, tagged along with a couple of guild zergs and did a lot of structure defence and scouting. Not using the mount made virtually no difference. Most PUG zergs and open Guild zergs have longish tails anyway but the mount has made that even more evident. I just kept Swiftness up and stayed towards the front end of the tail and I was fine.

    As far as defending structures goes, I just travelled there same as usual and no-one used a mount inside the keeps/towers. NOthing ever happened so fast I couldn't get there in time, except for a couple of huge zerg attacks when it made no difference how fast anyone got there.

    The mount was most useful for scouting because it allowed me to avoid fights occasionally. Usually if I get caught in the open while scouting I just stand there typing my report while they kill me.

    All in all I feel confident I can carry on playing WvW without using the mount and not notice much difference. I'd still rather it wasn't there, though. They're ugly and they clutter up the view. Plus they add to the lag.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    1. Anet makes a change to encourage more people to try WvW ...check
    2. WvWers scream about the influx of new people. About having to wait in queue. About people who don't know what's going on...check
    3. People who might have stayed leave....check
    4. WvWers blame only the game...it's never anyone's fault but Anet....of course

    I've seen plenty of negativity from WvWers and while some did welcome the influx with open arms, the loudest portion of the community (and probably a minority) bordered on abusive. At very least they were very negative.

    If I were a new player going into WvW for the first time, I wouldn't want to go back there even for the buff.

    Of course, if the buff were doubled permanently, no one would go in because they could do it any time. It would solve nothing.

    True. The mounts uproar is just another example of how focused players exhibiting exclusivity are killing their own game mode.

    I think the sad part is that ANY change Anet makes in WvW is going to have dissenters that will cry the same mantra about people not liking it and leaving the game .. so I don't see why Anet should take these complaints about mounts any more seriously than any other change they could make in WvW. Basically, Anet can never win, even if the change is really good for the health of the game mode ... some group of people is always going to complain that they didn't get exactly what they asked for, the new change is ruining their game and will eventually lead to the death of the game.

    What I would like to know is what MMO's they have ever played where they got what they asked for from devs that isn't just sticking around ... it's growing because of it. I've yet to hear of an MMO that just placates it's players and grows as a result.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • trueanimus.4085trueanimus.4085 Member ✭✭✭

    yeah.. they should have made it a little harder to get the warclaw, IMHO, becuase as soon as the pve players got the mount.. they left.

    None of them really got to experience the battles that are actually WVW and how thrilling it can be. It was all PEW PEW jump kill die and then they left when they had their cats.. kind of sad really.

    Would love to see more events that would pull people into wvw and keep them there for longer periods of time

  • trueanimus.4085trueanimus.4085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Krizek.5672 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Krizek.5672 said:
    An opinion of PVE player.

    Since there was an event for double XP and of course Warclaw mount I have logged into the WvW. All the time I have heard "go back PVE players", "useless s***" and other encouraging things. When I asked for help how to improve only one, ONE person helped me, check metabattle. So I did and changed mine build. There are some tips how to play, but for the player who really dont have much experience with WvW it was a little bit confusing. I know something when I farmed 2 gifts of battle. So I asked again with mine build if I can get some tips for improvement. Nothing. Same talks "go home PVE" and kicked out of squad. I have farmed several Gifts of battle, event ended and most likely I will never show up again in WvW. Why? Well because of really toxic community over there and absolutely not helpful. I would say even more than in raids and thats something (at least in raids you have training groups). And I m not some beginner player, I play GW 2 since the launch.

    So its only your own fault that people left. You had a huge chance how to keep more players, but with this behaviour you have just burned it.

    So... you take the experience of (your) one server and apply it to all of WvW?

    That’s fair? But in the same paragraph, you note there are training groups for raids? How do you find those? That would be research.

    Did you come into the forums and ask for a guild in WvW that is on your server that would be willing to guide you?

    Like: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/71438/question-for-the-ruins-of-surmia-people#latest

    Or a search like : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/search?Page=p2&adv=1&cat=29&search=Looking+for+guild

    Would show you a way to find the help you are looking for. But that would presume you are actually looking for help.

    If you really feel like Warclaw was some great chance to keep players in WvW, you haven’t been paying attention.

    First of all I would like to say, that "So... you take the experience of (your) one server and apply it to all of WvW?" is false argument.

    But here you go if you wish:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/71429/wvw-commanders-guilds-kicking-non-meta-classes/p1
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70715/why-all-the-hostility/p1
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70536/i-have-never-been-so-disgusted-in-the-gw2-community-before/p1
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/69031/can-we-stop-with-the-wvw-players-so-hard-to-please-rhetoric#latest

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/axr0t0/all_the_salt_about_the_warclaw_aside/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/aslshs/please_wvw_community/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/axsaqf/wvw_stop_shooting_yourselves_in_the_foot/

    Than people from mine guild had same experience or very similar one as me. So this is not the problem of one server at all (sorry cant bring scientific research, but you may do it and persuade of the opposite). There might be minor community of those toxic WvWs, but there is also major silent community, so result is same.

    "If you really feel like Warclaw was some great chance to keep players in WvW, you haven’t been paying attention." Every new thing everywhere (not just gaming), brings new people and according to their experience they stay or leave.

    I have no need to talk about this anymore, for me its closed.

    I wish you good luck in your WvW realm.

    Seems like they were running with the wrong commanders on the wrong servers. You can have a guild that is kitten good at WVW without all the drama and BS that commanders seem to thrive on these days.

    TORK on Tarnished Coast officially welcomes any and all players... we dont kick people from group or guild for running non meta classes.. we actually welcome the diversity it as long as you have fun, learn your class the way you want to play it and try your best.

    If you are getting kicked and screamed at.. give us a try.... best chill group of people you would ever want to meet and they offer help for players new and old as well.

    I have been with Tork for over 6 years now and they are a fun bunch.. we raid every night in WVW and we have our own discord... with a music bot and a live DJ (me btw) so drop in.. say high and stay and enjoy yourself!

    If you are on Tarnished Coast or Borlis Pass (our pair server at the moment) give me a shout and we will help you. Run with us and if you like it.. you can ask in squad for an invite... all that we as is that you have the ability to listen on discord and have a mic to say hi once in a while =)

    Truely Frightening is my character name in game

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tiny Doom.4380 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Graymalkyn.8076 said:

    @tobin.6754 said:
    hate to say this but, we told you so! All the fresh blood left, and the WvW community are stuck with a mount they don't want.

    Then don't use it.

    If a developer adds a mechanic that provides a clear tactical advantage for those who adopt it, not using it means not playing (or at least greatly reducing play time) the game mode (for me). If it were a purely cosmetic option I would agree with you.

    I played a lot of WvW last week. I had the mount but I didn't use it much because I don't like mounts, period. Over the week I followed three particular commanders who had large PUG zergs going several times, tagged along with a couple of guild zergs and did a lot of structure defence and scouting. Not using the mount made virtually no difference. Most PUG zergs and open Guild zergs have longish tails anyway but the mount has made that even more evident. I just kept Swiftness up and stayed towards the front end of the tail and I was fine.

    As far as defending structures goes, I just travelled there same as usual and no-one used a mount inside the keeps/towers. NOthing ever happened so fast I couldn't get there in time, except for a couple of huge zerg attacks when it made no difference how fast anyone got there.

    The mount was most useful for scouting because it allowed me to avoid fights occasionally. Usually if I get caught in the open while scouting I just stand there typing my report while they kill me.

    All in all I feel confident I can carry on playing WvW without using the mount and not notice much difference. I'd still rather it wasn't there, though. They're ugly and they clutter up the view. Plus they add to the lag.

    To clarify, I meant it when I said, "for me."

    I know that it is folly to attempt to speak for some ill-defined group of others so I try (and sometimes fail) to express my opinion in terms of how I feel about, or am affected by, something. The addition of the Warclaw has impacted my play time in WvW in a negative manner. When I try the game mode without the mount the effect is even worse. So now, instead of play sessions of roaming I log in, do minimum dailies, and log out. I am spending most of my game time outside of GW2 now. Not the first break Ive taken from the game, probably wont be the last, but its purely because of the addition of the Warclaw.

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2019

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    Snip 8<

    The addition of the Warclaw has impacted my play time in WvW in a negative manner. When I try the game mode without the mount the effect is even worse. So now, instead of play sessions of roaming I log in, do minimum dailies, and log out. I am spending most of my game time outside of GW2 now.


    I get what you're trying to say.

    You can thank the small group of vocal WvW experts here for the Long-Term health of this game mode.

    Discussions here will continue to be shallow & cosmetic given the past history of how this forum is administered & how many of these vocal WvW experts seem to enjoy the debate...if not the end result of all their gab...imho

    ANet Should Realize that a major End-Game mode responsible for generating foot traffic into their gems store is collapsing...will certainly impact their bottom line in the Long-Term...with many ripple effects...should be a concern of theirs.

    But this reply will just be a small & forgotten post...buried in the avalanche of more fun shallow & cosmetic posts that have more fascination & appeal.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

  • Garkus.2183Garkus.2183 Member ✭✭

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    exactly what the world seems to have less and less of on a daily basis 'critical thinking' and 'patience',which imo is the reason mmo's are struggling at this time

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭

    @Krizek.5672 said:
    An opinion of PVE player.

    Since there was an event for double XP and of course Warclaw mount I have logged into the WvW. All the time I have heard "go back PVE players", "useless s***" and other encouraging things. When I asked for help how to improve only one, ONE person helped me, check metabattle. So I did and changed mine build. There are some tips how to play, but for the player who really dont have much experience with WvW it was a little bit confusing. I know something when I farmed 2 gifts of battle. So I asked again with mine build if I can get some tips for improvement. Nothing. Same talks "go home PVE" and kicked out of squad. I have farmed several Gifts of battle, event ended and most likely I will never show up again in WvW. Why? Well because of really toxic community over there and absolutely not helpful. I would say even more than in raids and thats something (at least in raids you have training groups). And I m not some beginner player, I play GW 2 since the launch.

    So its only your own fault that people left. You had a huge chance how to keep more players, but with this behaviour you have just burned it.

    I found profoundly hypocritical the entire complain of the PvE players regarding the "toxicity" of the WvW'rs. It is incredible.

    You can find on this forum, In the Fractals/Dungens/Raids subforum dozen of topics regarding the "amiable" PvE community. With kicks from squad in Raids because you don't have the right class (without testing the newcomer). Kick in Fractals for some hilarious reason. The answer of the PvE community? Be tough, this is the game, make your own squad/party and try again / change your build, change your class/ learn to play etc. And the majority of complainers agree that they will try again.

    Regarding the WvW: Why you don't think that all the actual veterans encountered the same "toxicity". And continued to play WvW. All the actual veterans lost outnumbered fights (1 vs n) without considering this a malevolent intentional act directed personally against them. And continued to play WvW. All the actual veterans were beginners when started. And despite some ironical words they continued to play WvW. Many of the actual players vere forced (in the past) to play PvE only to get some gold - it was a period when your expenses in WvW were greater than the rewards. And returned to WvW to play.

    I saw complains regarding the "toxic" WvW community based on a few ... harder words. And the conclusion - "I will never step again in WvW - it is too toxic". Realy?

    As a supplement: Even if you were kicked from squad, at least nobody stopped you to play for the mount. In raid or in fractals if you get kicked from a squad/party is over. You should start again. If you can find another squad/party.

    You want WvW? Then play it. With bad results at first. Then after a while you will become better. And better. And you will start to understand what is going on. And you will adjust your build without any help. But, play the WvW. With other words : Stand-up and fight!

    All the complains about the "toxicity" of the WvW community is in fact a complain about how much you don't like WvW. And because many of us don't accept that we can be the real problem, then we invent every kind of scapegoats. In this case, the "toxic" WvW community.

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    PvE-oriented players are NEVER going to be the hardcore WvW base. This is just not going to happen. They are, at best, going to "dip a toe" from time to time. ANet needs to make a concentrated push to try and bring back the WvW core that have left the game. WvW had a giant population that due to inattention, and questionable choices have drifted away. As soon as ANet realized they are going after the wrong players, and chooses to go after the right players, then progress might be made.

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