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Deadeye Nerf - Frustrated Player


Blur.3465

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@Obtena.7952 said:You can't think of any reason Anet nerfed stealth? have you played anything BUT thief in PVP? Have you ever played against a stealth thief as a non-thief player?

In any game I've ever played, classes that can stealth and burst kill at their leisure are just cancer, and this game is no exception.

I have and its not as easy as people make it out to be and they pretty much broke the spec and the class in wvw. Just like if you want to use sword or even use rifle without shadow arts its impossible to use any stealth attacks because you come out of stealth now before you can even use them. In wvw though its more about not getting killed by 50+ people all trying to focus you. So what they did is catered to all the novice players so they didn't have to learn how to fight a thief.

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@Gatvin.6510 said:

@"Blur.3465" said:After another PvP match run for daily today, this is the score I managed to achieve with Rifle Deadeye:

gw220.jpg

This is exactly what happens when the teams ignore Deadeye. I was untouched in the match and I literally had clear aim without anyone focusing me.Needless to say, we also had a good team but they had a stronger set-up than us.Regardless of stealth nerf people will still complain how 'OP' Deadeye is and ask for more nerfs. Had people focused me I would've been in a very bad spot; like in a couple of previous games where I had literally all teams chasing after me and killing me swiftly which frustrated me; but these people knew how to counter Deadeye.

It pretty much comes down to countering the Deadeye and knowing what to do. With the lack of stealth we are easy targets, but if we are untouched we will shine.

Essentially you're saying that Deadeye is OP if your opponents are blind or bad at targeting, but folds when they actually interact with you. Saying you've got the best kill speed on goldfish isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of a build's balance.

Oh absolutely I agree. There are huge issues with the build and playstyle and I am saying that people will still complain that Deadeye is OP and ask for nerf without even knowing how to counter it (and it's super easy to counter Deadeye now after nerf... -.- ). I am certain that most of the complaints come from people who don't know how the build plays in the first place.I struggle big time when I get swarmed and even engaged in 1v1. I can't even properly revive my team members without getting downed soooo yeah...If you are lucky and untouched you will shine (as I said), but if you get a team which knows how to target you - you will want to quit the game XD

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There was no reason for the last nerf because of how wvw now has automatic/passive ways to mark/reveal plus I am not sure if anet realizes this after harping on it for so many years. Where they do not want a class or spec to be completely different from one game mode to another. So take in consideration the trick and trap, watchtower, sentries, all the things that existed prior to these, and the change to be blocked and removing the burst from the rifle. You basically have 3 deadeye specs the one that originally existed, the reworked one, and the reworked one that is nerfed into the ground, incinerated by nuke, then rolled over by a train, and finally sucked down into a black hole.

Although I have come across so many people even with these nerfs they still die so easily because of how long anet let the whole condi necro problem go on for they became dependent on passive abilities to play for them. So nothing anet does to nerf it is ever going to help them until you make it where thieves can't use traits or weapons. Usually these types of players their reaction is to just bring more people to get killed and then its broken when you outplay them. So if you say yes stealth is broken its broken in your favor now where you can just throw something in my direction to remove most of the core functions of a thief. Although there aren't any consumables like this that are so targeted to one class other than thief. I just find it counter productive to make a class, then 2 specs, which daredevil they broke a little bit but still somewhat usable, and then now deadeye was made and reworked just for them to nerf it to a point worse than the original was designed. Although you have these ppl that are complaining about mounts and complaining about being ganked. Although the more bad players whine about thieves the more nerfs they will impose just on the thief class. It would have been nice if when thieves were complaining about necro instant condi death builds that they would have nerfed necro like this it would have kept a lot of players still playing this game. So in the end these players just want to turn players with skill in this game into target dummies so they can finallly kill something.

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Thief as a whole will never be at a spot line withe majority of other classes. Due to its mechanics and playstyles it is the class that produces the most salty players and constant thief op cries even when their garbage tier in most engagement scenarios these days the cries will keep coming. That combined with arena net not knowing much about their game,how each class players in each mode,and wanting to appease the masses thief will always struggle.just reroll another class like a lot of players have.

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Tried some ranked games recently on my DE. I use rifle + some other weapon (Dp, sword pistol, sometimes sword dagger). It's been a godawful painful experience. Still zero chance against condi mirage because core thief crutches on the stolen skill Resistance to have a chance, my burst tickles (especially after I get to enjoy thief's super strong 'mobility' where I have to use the same resource my damage skills use to get around and no more Lead Attacks). I can't even run away anymore unless I reserve all resources for it...and then I might as well just not engage in the first place. First time this has ever happened, one of my ranked team members asked if I could play something 'actually useful'.

Death's Retreat is still painful to use (hello rapidly trying to detarget and it somehow...not, so I end up 'retreating' several times into a wall)

I'm seeing tons more DD staff thieves though...so I guess folks can enjoy fighting those xD

It would be nice if anet had a clear vision for thief on what they're supposed to be good at. Aside from whimpering and dying, of course.

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Haha yeah problem is thief as a whole is garbage nowadays,arenanet and the community cries have destroyed it. Trust me most players are happy about it to. You have one half of thief players trying to actually skillfully engage and fight other players and are constantly getting squished like a annoying bug and the other half constantly use mechanics due to above reasons such as stealth burst backstabs etc which create salt and resulting in a large sum of the community calling thief (and u cant change their mind no matter how underperforming thief gets) out as op and eventually arenanet caves and pushes thieves further into the ground. This just way it is,no point even looking at the spec these days unless u want to try to stealth burst someone over and over which is boring as hell or Be in a constant disengage every fight lol

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Haha yeah problem is thief as a whole is garbage nowadays,arenanet and the community cries have destroyed it. Trust me most players are happy about it to. You have one half of thief players trying to actually skillfully engage and fight other players and are constantly getting squished like a annoying bug and the other half constantly use mechanics due to above reasons such as stealth burst backstabs etc which create salt and resulting in a large sum of the community calling thief (and u cant change their mind no matter how underperforming thief gets) out as op and eventually arenanet caves and pushes thieves further into the ground.This just way it is,no point even looking at the spec these days unless u want to try to stealth burst someone over and over which is boring as hell or Be in a constant disengage every fight lol

Well said. Just goes to show spelling and punctuation doesn't mean shit if the person actually knows what's really going on behind the scenes. It's like most players have post traumatic stress disorder about thieves in the past and think they're still as overpowered today. I guess if they don't play thief they don't know how hard it's got just to survive fights nowadays let alone win them.

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@MUDse.7623 said:not every spec is in a good/viable spot.many people do not like to fight against the old rifle deadeye, so thats a reason for it to become more of a 'fun' build. play it if you enjoy it, but dont expect optimal results.it will be easier to get better results on a more efficient spec, if you have a basic understanding of the games mechanics. so you may try some builds that are better in current meta if contributing is an important factor to your fun.

i also did love to play old rifle deadeye. but since patch i only been playing core s/d (spvp) and scrapper (WvW), because i simply dont want to play with rifle in its current state.

@Blur.3465 said:It's hard to keep distance now, the evade gun skill should've at least been a bit buffed to provide us with solid escape if anything.wish that skill actually was an evade.

Agreed. I loved the old Deadeye more than the new one. The patient game was relatively interesting. And if the opposing player was smart, they would do something to flush the deadeye out.

On top of that, the old deadeye favored good positioning far more, so you attacked from akward angles or high up so people couldn't get to you. And it was the only thief spec that had something to offer in team fights. More meaningful than venoms you didn't spec for.

But unfortunately, after all the nerfs to thiefs damage to promote deadeye, I guess... The nerf to rifle. The improper handling of a trait nerf... Which at this point they shoulf just change the stupid thing to something else. Like bring back his support ability... The nerfs to DD unhindered combat and pulmonary impact...

I just play core S/D. Its the only thing that didn't get completely fucked... Oh wait.

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The problems is not so much what they did with stealth of Dodge. It the rationale used claiming it never intended to stack stealth . I can accept that BUT at the same time they made it even easier for the engineer to stealth.

The logic behind removing stealth from a class base on stealth by definition while at the same time giving other classes more of it evades me. This at the core of balance issues I have across the board. Stealth on thief could have been kept at a reasonable level IF stealth had been restricted to thieves. Instead they gave it to a number of other classes in ever greater amounts.

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Yeah stealth is just one of thiefs tricks that has been spread out amount other classes rendering them redundant. Mobility,ports,stealth and quick bursts are all done aswell if not better on every other class. Mirage and soulbeast have basically the mobility of thief but more sustain and dps,mesmer and ranger have stealth and sneak gyro makes scrapper better at stealth than thief. Almost all classes can out dps a thief of the thief isn’t starting the burst with a backstab. Their literally almost to the point where other classes will be better at +1 and decapping if that already hasn’t happened lol arenanet might as well cave all the way and delete thief and make a whole new rouge class.

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When a major trait is so overwhelming that some people define the viability of the entire spec based on this trait, then this trait need to be brought down. And that's what happened.

The issue is that as much as the OP hate fighting the current scrapper, a lot of other professions also hated fighting against the build that the OP mourn. Stealth riffle DE was unfun to play against, nobody can deny this simple fact.

There are other way to play deadeye/thief that can totally be competitive. Yes those ways doesn't imply that you will be able to one shot from stealth players that happen to enter the range (1200/1500) of your riffle. But I'm positif that those "way" are a lot more healthy for the game as a whole than this build that you enjoyed to play. With each balance patch, all professions have a need to tweek at their builds to remain competitive.

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:When a major trait is so overwhelming that some people define the viability of the entire spec based on this trait, then this trait need to be brought down. And that's what happened.

The issue is that as much as the OP hate fighting the current scrapper, a lot of other professions also hated fighting against the build that the OP mourn. Stealth riffle DE was unfun to play against, nobody can deny this simple fact.

There are other way to play deadeye/thief that can totally be competitive. Yes those ways doesn't imply that you will be able to one shot from stealth players that happen to enter the range (1200/1500) of your riffle. But I'm positif that those "way" are a lot more healthy for the game as a whole than this build that you enjoyed to play. With each balance patch, all professions have a need to tweek at their builds to remain competitive.

Unfortunately, this is nothing I spoke of.I never mentioned I cried out for one-shotting people with a rifle; realistically I can still do it if people are careless of Deadeye.The issue here is that Deadeye lacks survivability and is really bad when it comes to holding cap points, reviving team members or even holding up against others in 1v1.Stealth provided means of escape, now escape is really hard and Deadeye has little to no defense at all; while other professions shine with that mostly.

What I keep proposing in all my posts is a compensation and a rework of Deadeye to allow us to sustain ourselves in a fight.Our skills starve us of our initiative and people can easily dodge these skills and counter us if they know how to do it properly.I delight in PvP when I see a Deadeye as it's so easy to kill them now. I am playing a d/d Deadeye build with perma stealth now and laughing as to how easy it is to get rid of Deadeye Rifle...

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I play scrapper. Had a DE 1 shot me at plat lvl. Was pretty surprised to be blind sighted even with this nerf. Granted I wasn't paying attention and my passive was used.

He managed to be out of sight most of the time. Had him on my team the game after. Top dmg top kills.

I totally understand it's hard. But apparently there are just good players who can still use it. I played DE all last season. Could not do it now. Just die way too much. I guess I am one of those unskillful players.

Just play something else tbh. Seems to be how this game works. Was mirage last season. Now it's something else.

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@Blur.3465 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:When a major trait is so overwhelming that some people define the viability of the entire spec based on this trait, then this trait need to be brought down. And that's what happened.

The issue is that as much as the OP hate fighting the current scrapper, a lot of other professions also hated fighting against the build that the OP mourn. Stealth riffle DE was unfun to play against, nobody can deny this simple fact.

There are other way to play deadeye/thief that can totally be competitive. Yes those ways doesn't imply that you will be able to one shot from stealth players that happen to enter the range (1200/1500) of your riffle. But I'm positif that those "way" are a lot more healthy for the game as a whole than this build that you enjoyed to play. With each balance patch, all professions have a need to tweek at their builds to remain competitive.

Unfortunately, this is nothing I spoke of.I never mentioned I cried out for one-shotting people with a rifle; realistically I can still do it if people are careless of Deadeye.The issue here is that Deadeye lacks survivability and is really bad when it comes to holding cap points, reviving team members or even holding up against others in 1v1.Stealth provided means of escape, now escape is really hard and Deadeye has little to no defense at all; while other professions shine with that mostly.

What I keep proposing in all my posts is a compensation and a rework of Deadeye to allow us to sustain ourselves in a fight.Our skills starve us of our initiative and people can easily dodge these skills and counter us if they know how to do it properly.I delight in PvP when I see a Deadeye as it's so easy to kill them now. I am playing a d/d Deadeye build with perma stealth now and laughing as to how easy it is to get rid of Deadeye Rifle...

You are just dodging what I say and put the word you want to hear in my mouth.

What I say is that the DE isn't a single build that depend on a single major trait. Explore other options if you are unsatisfied with an option that's been nerfed, don't just lay there unwilling to change when things have already changed. The deadeye don't lack survivability it got access to the whole survivability tools of the core thief and stealth is merely the tip of the iceberg when it come to survivability tools for the thief.

The issue when I read you is that you seem to think that the riffle deadeye don't have a mean of defense, however range is already a mean of defense. Objectively, there is no need for more defense on riffle than there already is, especially you have a weapon swap and you can thus freely switch onto a melee weaponset which can be defensive or offensive.

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@kash.9213 said:

@Gundam Style.8495 said:I find that the players that complain the most about stealth, are players that enjoy the non stealth classes the most. Funny right?

I play mainly thief and imo stealth in gw2 is trash mechanic, that needs rework

Explain in detail what about stealth in gw2 is trash and then how it should be reworked.

Absolutely no counterplay to it, if u get into stealth u can only get revealed, which can be done by few classes. Stealthed guy can jump right after ur back, he can run away or he can run in circles, while u have to press dodge in the right moment to avoid nuke out of nowhere. Once someone gets into stealth he's completyl out of reach.There are many solutions on forum. Imo the best ones are: the same in wow, if someone is close in front of u, he becomes partly visible to u. This one is from lol: if stealthed guy is hit, there are visible particles around him. There are way more good solutions, that would give counterplay, and wouldn't make stealth completely useless.Rn stealth promotes lazy and interactive gameplay, and silent scope nerfs was definitely move in good direction

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Gundam Style.8495 said:I find that the players that complain the most about stealth, are players that enjoy the non stealth classes the most. Funny right?

I play mainly thief and imo stealth in gw2 is trash mechanic, that needs rework

Explain in detail what about stealth in gw2 is trash and then how it should be reworked.

Absolutely no counterplay to it, if u get into stealth u can only get revealed, which can be done by few classes. Stealthed guy can jump right after ur back, he can run away or he can run in circles, while u have to press dodge in the right moment to avoid nuke out of nowhere. Once someone gets into stealth he's completyl out of reach.There are many solutions on forum. Imo the best ones are: the same in wow, if someone is close in front of u, he becomes partly visible to u. This one is from lol: if stealthed guy is hit, there are visible particles around him. There are way more good solutions, that would give counterplay, and wouldn't make stealth completely useless.Rn stealth promotes lazy and interactive gameplay, and silent scope nerfs was definitely move in good direction

I disagree that stealth in this game is trash, the mechanic itself is some of the most fun stealth play that's fluid with the action of our visual skills. I agree that stealth needs counterplay, or that it needs to be regulated so that there's not as much need for heavy and sustained counterplay. Stealth should be balanced with the rest of the game but not reworked into some stale outdated mechanics from other games.

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Daredevil D/P or Core Thief is now literally the only build that CAN be of use in normal PvP arenas. I loathe WvW so I'm not even using it for comparison.

Match today:I start capping the point, Guardian one shots me. Yep, one shots me. This was also the case with Mesmers in previous matches - they ambush you and literally ONE SHOT you.Warrior bumps into me and keeps going after me for 1v1, can't kill the warrior, he cuts through me like butter.I keep my range while trying to pick their team off one by one, I get instantly pulled into the fray. I use Shadow Step to escape, but I get pulled back in again.Ranger Soulbeast finds me in mid-field while going for the cap points...kills me.Later I down that ranger but he downs me too and then revives with the help of pet to finish me off.I back away and target their mesmer on the way to the cap point : As we know Mesmer summons all those clones, gets my health to 0. I down mesmer, clones finish me, mesmer revives.

I stand behind what I say because of the experiences I am having with Deadeye.It should be the only build that can stand toe-to-toe with others as it is focused on DPS and not the 'mobile/running build', but that's not possible if you end up in an experienced team.You can shine as Deadeye with an opposing team that knows 0 about how to counter you; otherwise you're in a bad, bad spot.

EDIT: Less frustrating and more revarding to play Deadeye D/D with most of the stealth skills to give you perma stealth :P I regret returning to Deadeye Rifle for today's match.

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