Mass Invisibility request — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mass Invisibility request

Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 11, 2019 in Mesmer

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Can we see some buffs happen to Mass invis. Since you buffed stealth gyro to be the best stealth elite in game. Can we at least see a cooldown reduction for mass invis. I think pulling it to 35s would put it in line.

Also.
Master of Manipulation needs to give some other benefit besides reflect. It makes mass in his useless in most situations. ( reflected projectiles reveal you)
Credit to @Kiroshima.8497 and @K Then for reminding me how bad this trait is.

Tingle my stingleberry

Comments

  • K THEN.5162K THEN.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd appreciate if they would at least change the master of manipulation trait and its interaction with Mass Invis cause in it's current state...since release...if you cast MI while running the trait, then it "buffs" you with projectile reflect...on an invisibility skill...where all it takes is 1 longbow auto to be reflected and reveal you which completely negates the purpose of Mass Invis altogether

    WHAT?!? Did you expect something special would be written here

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kiroshima.8497 said:
    Not just cooldown, can we change the manipulation trait to not have reflect/mirror and do something else instead. Nothing worse than using MI and the watching a random projectile bounce back and reveal you.

    I'm adding that to the OP

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    Players have been complaining and asking for a change to 'master of manipulation' for years now. I would say its going to happen eventually buuuut . . . . . surprisingly it hasn't happened yet. Just give them 3 or 4 more years to work out the kinks.

    They will release it when it is ready!!!!

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Can we see some buffs happen to Mass invis. Since you buffed stealth gyro to be the best stealth elite in game. Can we at least see a cooldown reduction for mass invis. I think pulling it to 35s would put it in line.

    Also.
    Master of Manipulation needs to give some other benefit besides reflect. It makes mass in his useless in most situations. ( reflected projectiles reveal you)
    Credit to @Kiroshima.8497 and @K Then for reminding me how bad this trait is.

    All they do is vomit 'content' in the 'content-shop' .
    1 glace at patchnotes is enough to understand they have no clue what is a problem,what is not a problem, reasonable changes being ignored in favor of whining ,never admit their mistakes because they cant be wrong etc

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    Is impossible do some additional stack invis wiht some combo blast ? If yes, no matter you or someone o another class near Mesmer ? If yes - no any improve needed. If someone need spam that skill - he can use c-split

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    Is impossible do some additional stack invis wiht some combo blast ? If yes, no matter you or someone o another class near Mesmer ? If yes - no any improve needed. If someone need spam that skill - he can use c-split

    I want to try and respond to this, but I can't because it's too hard to understand....

    try again?

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @lare.5129 said:
    Is impossible do some additional stack invis wiht some combo blast ? If yes, no matter you or someone o another class near Mesmer ? If yes - no any improve needed. If someone need spam that skill - he can use c-split

    I want to try and respond to this, but I can't because it's too hard to understand....

    try again?

    I'm not sure but ... he ask if mass invis as much broken as sneak gyro and also produce smoke fields on 1200 radius or not. Cant be so sure about it

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Odik is on the right track.
    I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.
    If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

    The degenerate

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    Mass invis is available to every Mesmer spec. Can be traited to last 50% longer and grant boons by any spec. Can be used twice by one spec.

    Not saying it might not be deserving a little love, but more perspective might help understand where.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    I'd rather have stealth gyro nerfed to 180 cd.
    But if ANet insists on maintaining the current values than yes, MI should be 35sec.

    Sneak Gyro deserves a 240 second cooldown if you're balancing around being comparable to Mass Invisibility.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    I'd rather have stealth gyro nerfed to 180 cd.
    But if ANet insists on maintaining the current values than yes, MI should be 35sec.

    Sneak Gyro deserves a 240 second cooldown if you're balancing around being comparable to Mass Invisibility.

    True.
    I mentioned 180 because, except some racials, that's the max amount of elite cd if I'm not mistaken.

    The degenerate

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Odik is on the right track.
    I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.
    If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

    Ahhh ok. Yea I saw that at 4am and was not going to attempt to decipher lol.

    Anyway. No mass invis is not a blast field it's a one and done.
    Two @Tinnel.4369 I believe when traited with Prismatic the duration is increased by one whole second.
    Continuum Split could be easily changed to Not work with mi similar to what they did with mimic.
    Comparatively between Sneak Gyro and Mass Invisibility, it's clear as day that the gyro is better in any given situation.
    I agree with @mortrialus.3062 if the CD for MI won't go down then 240cd for the gyro given its benefits would be a better alternative

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Odik is on the right track.
    I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.
    If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

    Ahhh ok. Yea I saw that at 4am and was not going to attempt to decipher lol.

    Anyway. No mass invis is not a blast field it's a one and done.
    Two @Tinnel.4369 I believe when traited with Prismatic the duration is increased by one whole second.
    Continuum Split could be easily changed to Not work with mi similar to what they did with mimic.
    Comparatively between Sneak Gyro and Mass Invisibility, it's clear as day that the gyro is better in any given situation.
    I agree with @mortrialus.3062 if the CD for MI won't go down then 240cd for the gyro given its benefits would be a better alternative

    I disagree with CS thing.
    Even improvisation works with elites.
    Plus chrono is already trash, the only thing who keeps it afloat is chaos.

    The degenerate

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Odik is on the right track.
    I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.
    If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

    Ahhh ok. Yea I saw that at 4am and was not going to attempt to decipher lol.

    Anyway. No mass invis is not a blast field it's a one and done.
    Two @Tinnel.4369 I believe when traited with Prismatic the duration is increased by one whole second.
    Continuum Split could be easily changed to Not work with mi similar to what they did with mimic.
    Comparatively between Sneak Gyro and Mass Invisibility, it's clear as day that the gyro is better in any given situation.
    I agree with @mortrialus.3062 if the CD for MI won't go down then 240cd for the gyro given its benefits would be a better alternative

    Mass invis is 5 seconds. Prismatic understanding increases stealth duration by 50%. 50% of 5 is 1?!?

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Odik is on the right track.
    I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.
    If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

    Ahhh ok. Yea I saw that at 4am and was not going to attempt to decipher lol.

    Anyway. No mass invis is not a blast field it's a one and done.
    Two @Tinnel.4369 I believe when traited with Prismatic the duration is increased by one whole second.
    Continuum Split could be easily changed to Not work with mi similar to what they did with mimic.
    Comparatively between Sneak Gyro and Mass Invisibility, it's clear as day that the gyro is better in any given situation.
    I agree with @mortrialus.3062 if the CD for MI won't go down then 240cd for the gyro given its benefits would be a better alternative

    I disagree with CS thing.
    Even improvisation works with elites.
    Plus chrono is already trash, the only thing who keeps it afloat is chaos.

    If thieves can chain three Daggerstorms back to back for 12.75 seconds straight of evade and damage then double Mass Invisibility won't be a problem.

    I mean heck, core engineer's Toolbelt skill for Elixir S is a stealth as good as Mass Invisibility, that's 5 targets, has 1/4th the cast time, half the cooldown and the trait to reduce it's cooldown is meta and almost always going to be run so it's practically 1/3 the cooldown.

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Odik is on the right track.
    I think he meant if mass inv creates a field that you can blast for more stealth. And if that's the case you don't need to buff it.
    If you want to spam mass inv you can use continuum split.

    Ahhh ok. Yea I saw that at 4am and was not going to attempt to decipher lol.

    Anyway. No mass invis is not a blast field it's a one and done.
    Two @Tinnel.4369 I believe when traited with Prismatic the duration is increased by one whole second.
    Continuum Split could be easily changed to Not work with mi similar to what they did with mimic.
    Comparatively between Sneak Gyro and Mass Invisibility, it's clear as day that the gyro is better in any given situation.
    I agree with @mortrialus.3062 if the CD for MI won't go down then 240cd for the gyro given its benefits would be a better alternative

    Mass invis is 5 seconds. Prismatic understanding increases stealth duration by 50%. 50% of 5 is 1?!?

    7.5s at 90 seconds still ain't no 18 seconds in far more useful pulsing increments plus blasting and leaping on an 45 second cooldown at less than half the cast time.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe stealth gyro needs a nerf, not mas invis needing a buff.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062

    True that, I'm just trying to keep the facts straight.

    Sneak gyro does indeed seem a lot better than mass invis on paper and I won't be shocked to see it nerfed. However, comparing skill to skill in a vacuum is a slippery slope.

    If the most dangerous thing a scrapper has is that gyro I'm not too concerned (WvW wise anyhow). It's a pigeonholed barely functioning spec that struggles to stay on target and do any significant burst damage.

    Mesmer, though, has a comparitively giant tool kit it can use around mass invis. They can already instagib from what stealth they have and have oppressive condi application with scrapper like sustain.

    Again, I think you have to consider the skill in the context of the whole class.

  • Me Games Ma.8426Me Games Ma.8426 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    @mortrialus.3062

    True that, I'm just trying to keep the facts straight.

    Sneak gyro does indeed seem a lot better than mass invis on paper and I won't be shocked to see it nerfed. However, comparing skill to skill in a vacuum is a slippery slope.

    If the most dangerous thing a scrapper has is that gyro I'm not too concerned (WvW wise anyhow). It's a pigeonholed barely functioning spec that struggles to stay on target and do any significant burst damage.

    Mesmer, though, has a comparitively giant toll kit it can use around mass invis. They can already instagib from what stealth they have and have oppressive condi application with scrapper like sustain.

    Again, I think you have to consider the skill in the context of the whole class.

    Considering the skill in context of the whole class I'd say it is a good skill indeed it's just not a skill worth an Elite slot.
    I would rather take Decoy or SoMidnight in the elite slot if I could. The value of 5s stealth is just not enough considering the cooldown cast time and trait interaction.
    This skill (and other elites that weren't changed since 2012) need some serious love.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Odik made a thread not long ago about this.
    All core elites are trash, and this is the only reason jaunt is used on mirage.
    The only good elite mesmer has access to is grav. well.

    The degenerate

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Can we also compare toss elixir X and Signet of Humility pls?

    Passive: Reduces duration of incoming stuns, dazes, fears, and taunts.
    Active: Transforms your foe into a moa bird.
    (Defiant foes will have their defiant bar reduced instead.)

    Decreased: 20%
    Duration: 6s
    Range: 1,200
    1s Cast
    180s Recharge base, cannot be reduced.
    The signet's casting effect will now occur at the beginning of the ability.
    This ability can no longer target enemies behind the mesmer who casts it.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility

    Toss Elixir X
    Morphed (3s): Transformed into a moa bird.
    Number of Targets: 3
    Range: 900
    1/2s Cast
    120s Recharge base, can be reduced as low as 80s
    Can be tossed behind and anywhere you want really

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X

    Elixir X's parent skill gives rampage or tornado, the first being incredibly strong and the second not so strong but arguably better than the signet passive which is barely noticeable.

    Is it me or does Engineer pretty much have better elites than the classes that originally had equivocal elites? As you say MI compared to stealth gyro is very jarring but if you also look at elixir X it's also generally giving too much also.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Odik made a thread not long ago about this.
    All core elites are trash, and this is the only reason jaunt is used on mirage.
    The only good elite mesmer has access to is grav. well.

    True.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't think it should give stealth at all, Mass Invis could be reworked and Veil be renamed "Mass Invis" and basically nobody would care, because that name actually describes Veil better.

    // Yanim

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Frankly I think Mass Invis should work like a facet. Turn it on, and it makes the mesmer invisible (no duration just as long as it's on).

    Attack and it drops and goes on cooldown.

    "Consume" and it applies 5 seconds on invisibility to you and 9 allies in range, then goes on cooldown.

    Same 90 cooldown.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    Frankly I think Mass Invis should work like a facet. Turn it on, and it makes the mesmer invisible (no duration just as long as it's on).

    Attack and it drops and goes on cooldown.

    "Consume" and it applies 5 seconds on invisibility to you and 9 allies in range, then goes on cooldown.

    Same 90 cooldown.

    Perma stealth is awful for the game so I don't like the suggestion. But if ANet introduced that, you can bet in a week it would be hotfixed because of thieves' cries, just like when PU got buffed.

    The degenerate

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    Frankly I think Mass Invis should work like a facet. Turn it on, and it makes the mesmer invisible (no duration just as long as it's on).

    Attack and it drops and goes on cooldown.

    "Consume" and it applies 5 seconds on invisibility to you and 9 allies in range, then goes on cooldown.

    Same 90 cooldown.

    Perma stealth is awful for the game so I don't like the suggestion. But if ANet introduced that, you can bet in a week it would be hotfixed because of thieves' cries, just like when PU got buffed.

    I was actually really surprised by this thread as I could have sword back when I used Prismatic Understanding it applied an extra 1 second of stealth flat, not added an additional 50% of the base stealth. I just looked and it used to be 100%.

    Really at the end the day, which it comes to class asymmetries and roles thieves are supposed to be the kings of personal stealth and mesmers should be the kings of party wide stealth. That engineer is better at both than both is an stupid.

    Obviously permanent uptime is not good, but having Mass Invisibility function like a revanant facet would be a lot better. Even something like an ammo skill.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    Frankly I think Mass Invis should work like a facet. Turn it on, and it makes the mesmer invisible (no duration just as long as it's on).

    Attack and it drops and goes on cooldown.

    "Consume" and it applies 5 seconds on invisibility to you and 9 allies in range, then goes on cooldown.

    Same 90 cooldown.

    Perma stealth is awful for the game so I don't like the suggestion. But if ANet introduced that, you can bet in a week it would be hotfixed because of thieves' cries, just like when PU got buffed.

    I was actually really surprised by this thread as I could have sword back when I used Prismatic Understanding it applied an extra 1 second of stealth flat, not added an additional 50% of the base stealth. I just looked and it used to be 100%.

    Really at the end the day, which it comes to class asymmetries and roles thieves are supposed to be the kings of personal stealth and mesmers should be the kings of party wide stealth. That engineer is better at both than both is an stupid.

    Obviously permanent uptime is not good, but having Mass Invisibility function like a revanant facet would be a lot better. Even something like an ammo skill.

    Even tho I despise stealth I agree that MI needs a buff, an ammo take would be indeed a good solution, well with the anti-synergy master of manipulation rework.

    As for PU when the trait got buffed there was a mass uproar, majority of which were thieves complaining how mesmers had more stealth than them and how unfair it was. Similarly to how they cried when mirage had more evade uptime than them (?) (heck some of them still say it), same with mirage mobility and same back with hot stealth gyro and some even complain how thieves should have the most burst (there was even a thread which suggested backstab should instagib always because of how much skill it was required to land one).
    That's one of the reason I have no sympathy towards them - jealousy driven brats.

    The degenerate

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