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Mesmers should be rework.


ZeteCommander.4937

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Only Mirage more like an Mesmers,but,with nerf of mirages, the ability of fraud becomes weaker .shatter has nothing to do with fraud. They're strong just because they don't need casting.Say it without politeness,others are more like a mage who only causes a lot of damage,it's like using magic props as hammers to crush opponents,They are slow and not deceptive,Clone is just a resource for them like anger.Mesmers should be able to deceive their opponents like magicians.

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@"ZeteCommander.4937" said:Only Mirage more like an Mesmers,but,with nerf of mirages, the ability of fraud becomes weaker .shatter has nothing to do with fraud. They're strong just because they don't need casting.Say it without politeness,others are more like a mage who only causes a lot of damage,it's like using magic props as hammers to crush opponents,They are slow and not deceptive,Clone is just a resource for them like anger.Mesmers should be able to deceive their opponents like magicians.

+1 well said

I and many agree with you-take a lookhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/21734/how-mesmer-design-was-ruined-in-gw2

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@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I partially agree.It is true that clones are a resource such as adrenaline and the profession is crippled by that.A rework would likely kill what so many people like about mesmer, but I personally would welcome it.

Here is hoping our next e spec is a cloneless one

I hope so too, but also hope that ANet don't forget to buff skills or stats while cloneless akin to soulbeast.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I partially agree.It is true that clones are a resource such as adrenaline and the profession is crippled by that.A rework would likely kill what so many people like about mesmer, but I personally would welcome it.

Here is hoping our next e spec is a cloneless one

I hope so too, but also hope that ANet don't forget to buff skills or stats while cloneless akin to soulbeast.If we go one step farther for the proposed espec and completely remove all ai gameplay (i.e. phantasms), the mesmer could just ‘throw away the fancy deceptive stuff to empower themselves and dominate their enemies
for real
’, inheriting all illusion and phantasm traits. I could easily see +15% from Empowered Illusions, and a hefty +25% under ideal conditions from Phantasmal Force. There’s also a condition component from Sharper Images that could be used (5-10s bleeding per crit).

However, this might cause some unbalanced synergies like generating 10s fury, 5s aegis and or 3s quickness on self everytime a ‘phantasm’ skill is used (now done by the mesmer themself) depending on traits, and some traits would have to be modified in some manner - Sympathetic Visage may be changed to just clear a condition on using a phantasm skill, and Persistence of Memory may be changed to grant boons to nearby allies after using phantasm skills (but will have to be restricted in some way, or else it would become Signet of Inspiration v.2).

The shatters and clone-reliant skills and traits would also have to be addressed. Shatters may have to be redesigned or have a set strength. We obviously can’t summon clones anymore, so Illusionary Leap, Mirror Images, Signet of Illusions passive, Deceptive Evasion and Escape Artist would need to provide some other effect (left out the other skills since they already have somewhat decent functionality w/o the clone). Skills and traits that rely on summoning illusions would also need to be changed/modified somehow.

The biggest downside to this idea that I can see is that the espec would change mesmer into basically a glassier warrior that has mesmer tools attached to it. PvE-wise this isn’t too important, besides perhaps the class being less unique or interesting to play. In PvP however (which I don’t play), instead of mirage or illusion spam QQ, there would probably be a rise of ‘OP oneshot (illusionary swordsman skill) + Mind Wrack + Mind Spike + (whatever else espec brings) from stealth while having perma aegis/quickness/whatever’ complaints.

Ideally, I’d post an espec suggestion for this, but I don’t think I have the dedication to write up and decide how all the components would interact with each other.

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I love the class fantasy of illusionist more than anything. But to be honest I've always felt like shatters were a bad mechanic to pair with mesmer and very inappropriate.

Think about classic GW2 Mesmer before the Phantasm rework; you summon minions that swarm and distract the opponent. On longer cooldowns you can summon much more powerful and sturdy minions. At any time you can sacrifice your minions for powerful effects such as power damage, conditions, interrupts and even temporary survivability.

That's not illusionist. That's minionmancer necromancer game play. It's like they accidentally gave Mesmer the Necromancer class mechanic. I think mesmer, chronomancer and mirage would be a lot more interesting if they had a different main class mechanic. Clones and the current iteration of phantasms are fine. But defeating a mesmer should revolve around how well you focus on the real mesmer and ignore the clones, not having to juggle both being aware of the mesmer while kiting and avoiding the clones to avoid shatters.

Clones should still exist but they should both do no damage and take no damage. Any time they're struck they'd "Evade" automatically because illusions are classically intangible and interacting with them classically ends with the person simply phasing through them. The current iteration of Phantasms is fine as Phantasms that come out and do psionic damage are also part of the classic illusionist fantasy.

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  • 3 months later...

I do agree that Mesmers in GW2 aren't what they used to be, but truth be told 2012 wasn't the start of Mesmers' troubles... As much as it was innovative, Mesmer's concept was also problematic in GW itself - it was a great, diverse PvP profession, but Anet was struggling to make it relevant in PvE... Sounds familiar? Mesmers are great - and frustrating - when playing as/against human opponents, and that has not changed. Anet tried radically changing the mechanics in GW2 to bridge the gap bewteen PvE and PvP but... I still think that they failed, as much as it hurts (I mained Mes in GW and fell in love with the game because of it too). I think Anet somehow admitted to that when the changes to Phantasms came a few months back.

I honestly think the profession will remain problematic as long as clone mechanic stays in play. Phantasms seem fine after the changes, but clones are still as clunky as ever.

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Kind of offtopicish but can't be bothered to open a thread. I just love how mesmer portal was deleted in pvp because mirage had high mobility and how today the profession with the highest mobility on game received a portal on steroids. Just shows:1 - ANerf are disgustingly biased against mesmers.2 - they don't know what to do with the game.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Kind of offtopicish but can't be bothered to open a thread. I just love how mesmer portal was deleted in pvp because mirage had high mobility and how today the profession with the highest mobility on game received a portal on steroids. Just shows:1 - ANerf are disgustingly biased against mesmers.2 - they don't know what to do with the game.

Truth be told, Thieves were and still are really bad at supporting, so if any class should have portal, I think they should.

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@Hectorim Sears.1479 said:I honestly think the profession will remain problematic as long as clone mechanic stays in play. Phantasms seem fine after the changes, but clones are still as clunky as ever.

Pretty much this. This is as true now as it was 7 years ago when it was stated that the problem stemmed from the core mechanisms of the profession.

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@Hectorim Sears.1479 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Kind of offtopicish but can't be bothered to open a thread. I just love how mesmer portal was deleted in pvp because mirage had high mobility and how today the profession with the highest mobility on game received a portal on steroids. Just shows:1 - ANerf are disgustingly biased against mesmers.2 - they don't know what to do with the game.

Truth be told, Thieves were and still are really bad at supporting, so if any class should have portal, I think they should.

The problem is not thieves getting a portal, the problem is mesmer portal got deleted because portal, according to the knowledgeable community, was op, especially when paired with high mobility.Tbf mesmer doesn't have any support at all on pvp too.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Kind of offtopicish but can't be bothered to open a thread. I just love how mesmer portal was deleted in pvp because mirage had high mobility and how today the profession with the highest mobility on game received a portal on steroids. Just shows:1 - ANerf are disgustingly biased against mesmers.2 - they don't know what to do with the game.

Truth be told, Thieves were and still are really bad at supporting, so if any class should have portal, I think they should.

The problem is not thieves getting a portal, the problem is mesmer portal got deleted because portal, according to the knowledgeable community, was op, especially when paired with high mobility.Tbf mesmer doesn't have any support at all on pvp too.

Thief's version is supposed to be limited because it will only let one other person through, aside from the thief herself. I still think it will get nerfed though, at some point.

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