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    Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes

    Ben Phongluangtham.1065Ben Phongluangtham.1065 ArenaNet ArenaNet 
    edited March 21, 2019 in WvW

    Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

    Short-term

    • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
    • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
    • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.
    • Mounts will no longer be able to be stealthed. We felt mounts provide enough value without stealth and, as many have noticed, there were several visual bugs with stealth involved.

    Medium to Long-term

    • Working on a dismount trap
    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    Even Longer term

    • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

    Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.
    Edit 2: Added Stealth info

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Senior Game Designer

    Tagged:
    <1345678

    Comments

    • Chrury.4627Chrury.4627 Member ✭✭✭

      Cool stuff.

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

      • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.

      For clarification: it sounds like this is for all (non-chair) mounts in PvE as well? No more dismount climbing over tricky terrain?

      Builds for Runes project | Discussion | Archive

    • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

      Let's see how the dismount skill works first. Ofc it should dismount both party's too.

    • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭
      edited March 20, 2019

      Breakbar sounds like the best idea! Dismount traps and skill are definitely something I expected to come with the mount, so yay for adding those!

      Smart choices.

      Skill should definitely dismount both, or everybody if it's aoe

      Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

    • Genuinetheo.6591Genuinetheo.6591 Member ✭✭✭
      edited March 20, 2019

      I'm also on board with this new dismount skill also dismounting the player using it. No sense in giving someone an advantage where, especially in havoc groups, you can dismount enemy players anywhere and basically surround them for free. It should be an engagement tactic and pose a risk to the mounted player. That said.... I don't know how I'd feel about having that dismount potential available to everyone.

      I'm not even sure that a dismount trap will solve the problem of mounts in WvW. Most zergs will, at some point, find the urge to dismount and attack players or objectives. The utility that a dismount trap could bring would be rendered null, because it would mainly be used near hotspots and objectives. I guess it could help havoc groups clear out the solo roamers, but that would depend on the cost of the trap (versus the reward... which is usually nil).

      Perhaps an improvement, or tactic, that prevents you from mounting up in other server territories would be ideal.

    • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Genuinetheo.6591 said:
      I'm also on board with this new dismount skill also dismounting the player using it. No sense in giving someone an advantage where, especially in havoc groups, you can dismount enemy players anywhere and basically surround them for free. It should be an engagement tactic and pose a risk to the mounted player. That said.... I don't know how I'd feel about having that dismount potential available to everyone.

      I'm not even sure that a dismount trap will solve the problem of mounts in WvW. Most zergs will, at some point, find the urge to dismount and attack players or objectives. The utility that a dismount trap could bring would be rendered null, because it would mainly be used near hotspots and objectives. I guess it could help havoc groups clear out the solo roamers, but that would depend on the cost of the trap (versus the reward... which is usually nil).

      Perhaps an improvement, or tactic, that prevents you from mounting up in other server territories would be ideal.

      Perhaps they should add 2 different types of dismount traps..
      Small and large.

      Small Trap costs less supply and will trigger when an enemy mounted player triggers it locking them in combat for several seconds.. good for ambush tactics and roaming.
      Large Trap costs more supply, has larger radious and will only trigger when 5-10 players are within it's radious at the same time and would leave a short AoE field that would dismount other players entering it for a few seconds after the trap was triggered.. would be used to counter mounted groups and zergs.

    • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

      I like the idea of a break bar for the mount, but even though it's not likely, I'd like control skill effects or holds to carry over from mounted to dismounted. Different classes have different ranges for control skills and practical needs to have them on their bars or not, it would still make using a control ability useless if it even managed to kill the break bar and dismount the player but still leaving them will full dismounted capabilities.

      Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

    • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

      Considering the mobility of the mount, I too hope that break bar is fairly easy to break.
      That said, solid changes overall. Thanks for the update.

      ~ Kovu

      Ranger main before it was viable.
      Fort Aspenwood.

    • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @martin.3692 said:
      Seriously why not just make it ccable, it has enough evades and hp as it is. I don't see why skills which are already low on range and evadeable like Bola strike shouldn't work on it. Adding a dismount trap is not a good idea and I can already see it being almost never used just as all of the other traps. Just make it so players won't be able to use cc skills immediately after dismounting and everything is good.

      @Straegen.2938 said:
      If it helps, just make hard CC dismount a player and skip the UI development. It isn't like there is a ton of easy to access hard CC in the game. Since hard CC wasn't an issue before mounts I cannot see why having hard CC insta dismount changes anything.

      I wouldn't even bother with the trap since stealth traps are minimally useful at best and typically easy to avoid by dodging over them.

      I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue

    • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

      And thank you @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 for the update. I am glad it’s being watched and adapted even if I am not always in concert with the changes.

    • Deaeira.2651Deaeira.2651 Member ✭✭
      edited March 20, 2019

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
      Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

      Short-term

      • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
      • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.

      Medium to Long-term

      • Working on a dismount trap
      • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

      Even Longer term

      • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

      Are you considering adjustments to the mount speed? Being faster than maximum running speed brings the problem of peeps without mounts not being able to catch up. This may be intended in some situations but not in others (if the classical roaming class can catch up with their mobility skills, that might be working out. it might be a more severe problem for zergs zergs though - but i'm rarely zerging).

      Edit: I'm really grateful you're letting us know you're planning some adjustments. Greatly appreciated, independent of what you decide for in the end!

    • Mighty Cole.7849Mighty Cole.7849 Member ✭✭✭

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065

      Can you give us a rough estimate as to when Short/Medium/Long term changes might take effect?

    • martin.3692martin.3692 Member ✭✭

      I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue
      I don't think there should be a programming issue with it, perhaps an insignificant lack of animations you can even see the purple chains on the mounted character you are trying to immobolize, just rendering the character itself unable to move would probably work.

    • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭

      Big thank to get a few words from you on this meant alot to me.

    • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @redwing.9580 said:

      @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

      @Memoranda.9386 said:
      If jump/dismounting is being removed, can the actual jump height be improved upon some?

      I feel like I get stuck on the smallest of obstacles frequently, and will find myself dismounting to run through areas with shoddy/tricky collision.

      This and chain pull being useless. Frankly I'm good with the low damage, but supply cost should go away.

      you realize the supply cost is their so that rams don't just get deleted right?

      They won't because with their far superior damage, if you're serious about taking the tower/keep you're going to use them. Chain pull, even free, would take too long.

      How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

      Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

    • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

      Medium to Long-term

      • Working on a dismount trap
      • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

      Dismount on both sides, that way there is a price to pay if you want to dismount another. Are you planning on this being a 1 to 1 dismount skill or 1 to many (AOE)?

      Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
      De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
      TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

    • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

      Do not forget to fix the no mount areas in the catmander rooms so people can mount inside the cat boxes. That or make the achievement count by using a ca transformation like the one obtained from rollerbeetles.

      Here's some recommendations for the warclaw:

      • Give the mount the Exhaustion effect Daredevils get when using Dash. This will keep 3 consecutiv evades servizable without allowing too much evade spam by preventing recovering endurance while evading.
      • Make the main target of Sniff keep the mark longer than the rest, and give them an effect to warn them that they are marked (so they can also feint where their group is going by moving away from them).

      • Instead adding anew skill to dismount enemies, adapt the the Chain Pull skill to work on other mounts, to make it more intuitive and easier to use.

        • When used on doors, it'll work as usual, switching to siege mode and consuming 1 siege to do 2000 damage.

        • When used on another mount, it'll tether to the the other mount and flip over to a new "Chain Lasso" skill.

          • When tethered, both mounts would get a defiance bar. When a mount breakbar breaks, the player is dismounted.
          • The Chain Lasso skill would have a 1s recharge, and it would deal a tiny bit of damage or bleeding to the enemy mount (to put the enemy in combat), reduce their movement speed by 3% with a stacking effect that stacks up to 5 times (and that is lost on dismount), and remove 10% of the enemy breakbar and 5% of your own's breakbar.
          • Up to 3 mounts can lasso an enemy mount, meaning they can reduce their speed up by down to -45%, and take the mount down with 10 pulls between all 3.
          • The lassoed enemy can break free from a tether if they move away from the range or teleport through an ally door in a keep or tower, and their skills will not be affected, so they can also chain pull the enemy back.
          • Allies and enemies can also use their soft and hard CC to help break the temporary defiance bars in mounts.
          • The defiance bar in either mount would remain for 10 seconds after the tether ends, both after a mount breaks free or an enemy is dismounted.

        • The lasso will also work on champions like Lords to break their defiance bar, but it will only do 2000 damage per pull at most.

        • The lasso would also work on enemies with a WvW banner that gives a breakbar, but it'll be rather risky to use, since chances are they'll get damaged and dismounted instead before breaking the bar.
        • This new ability could require a new tier of the WvW ability in the WvW upgrades panel.

      • Add a way for non-pof players to catch up. For example:

        • An improved speed effect. It could be obtained in one of several ways:

          • Eternal Battlegrounds and Alpine could get shrines like the Desert that allow quickly jumping between the vicinity of their keeps. The blessing of elements from the shrines would increase out of combat speed to mount speed. But the combat speed would remain +40%.

          • A new WvW ability tier for the warclaw would give it n aura that would grant out of combat speed to allies as long as they are close enough. It would not affect allies in combat.

            • A simple effect that can be obtained for 5 badges of honor at any controlled objective that lasts until entering combat.

        • Pulling carts.

          • These would be basically 2-wheel carts with 4 seats built with 10 supply, that would allow up to 4 players to 'ride' them by using them like one would use a siege golem. They would able to use the dismount key to leave it.
          • Warclaws would be able to attach themselves to one by using skill 3 on one.
          • Players would only be able to ride a cart while it's attached to a mount. When the mount dismounts, the cart is detached and the passengers dismount too.

        • Mount rental:

          • Mount rental would be available at the main base (e.g. Citadel) and at T3 objectives. It will cost 100 hero badges and give use of a basic mount with no abilities that can only run as fast as other mounts. It will not even have the engage skill.
          • To keep the warclaw skin unique to PoF owners, the appearance of the rented mount would be a blurry mist with horse-like head that kind of looks like something in-between a hobby horse and a horse-shaped cloud. Kind of like the Mistfire wolf, but blurrier, foggier, and less enticing. This will also be homage to all the dead horses we've never can see in the GW franchise, as it'll be hard to tell this is a horse if it wasn't for the horse sound it'll make.
          • To avoid making this mount signal "this person does not own pof, PoF owners will also be able to buy this "Mist Horse" skin for the warclaw with skirmish tokens. This skin will not by dyeable.

      • Add a new "Dolyak Walker" tier to the WvW mastery that will allow using Skill 3 to tether the mount to a dolyak. Under no other effects, the dolyak will move as fast as when under swiftness when tethered to a warclaw, but the warclaw speed will be changed to match the exact speed of the dolyak (e.g.: slower when crippled faster with superspeed). Only 3 mounts would be able to tether to a single dolyak, but there would be no bonuses for doing so. This would be mostly a way to allow following dolyaks with autorun more comfortbly.

      Dismount trap:

      • Make it a cone rather than a line. Or, if traps even get a wvw mastery, make the trap radius increase from a narrow line to cone with a wider and wider angle up to a circle.
      • Take the opportunity to improve traps when adding a dismount trap:
        • Give traps their own separate supply, let's call it 'trap parts' for now. (This will require new account data and UI modifications)
        • Trap Parts will be obtainable in any controlled objective regardless of supply, including sentries and monuments, by using a new object (e.g. Dispenser) similar to the Healing Kits dispensers in sentries. There will be a cooldown to use each individual Dispenser again, so people don't sit at a dispenser spamming traps. (This will require mp and map data additions, the assesst for supply can be reused)
        • Further in time, there could be a new WvW Trap mastery ability track that will improve trap effects, allow using more complex traps, increase the amount of trap parts that can be carried to up to 25, decrease the cost of deploying a trap down to 5 trap parts and reduce the cooldown of the trap dispenser up to a half. The shortest cooldown of the dispenser will be balanced based on this to avoid trap over-spam.

      ☆ SUGGEST-A-TRON

    • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

      I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue

      Yeah, mounts not being affected by CC's is a general mount thing. Break-bar support already partially exists, since I think during original mount development, it was something we were considering.

      As far as the comments about dismount traps not being used, it's certainly something we've thought about. It's one of the reasons we didn't launch with it. But it's also pretty low cost to implement. We even already had the icon for it, since it was something we had considered during warclaw development.

      Good to know. Thanks.

    • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭

      Keep it up. These changes are in the right direction.

    • martin.3692martin.3692 Member ✭✭

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
      As far as the comments about dismount traps not being used, it's certainly something we've thought about. It's one of the reasons we didn't launch with it. But it's also pretty low cost to implement. We even already had the icon for it, since it was something we had considered during warclaw development.

      The traps might come in handy if used with strategy in mind by let's say commanders leading zeros but it definitely doesn't fix the issue of roaming being made essentially impossible, I've already seen many cases of looney toons themed chases in which 10 guys tried to constantly chase down one mounted player who just zig zags and throws them off each time they dismount.

      A break bar might work but ironically only if it'll break after one cc attack. Cc is rare as it is not to even talk about ranged cc and having a break bar which is designed to break after multiple attacks is useless if you somehow unimaginably manage to hit multiple scarse cc skills on a constantly evading fast mount it means that you definitely had enough time to just lower it's hp to 0 (I can't stress enough how impossible it would be to exceed the break bar if it'll soak more then one hit)

    • Mechanix.9315Mechanix.9315 Member ✭✭✭

      Thx BenP,

      Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

      If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

      This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

    • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭

      @Chaba.5410 said:
      Thanks for the update.

      Is there any ETA on the bug where people coming out of stealth can appear to still be on their mounts even when they've dismounted?

      Thats a Feature!

    • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

      @Chaba.5410 said:
      Thanks for the update.

      Is there any ETA on the bug where people coming out of stealth can appear to still be on their mounts even when they've dismounted?

      Thats a Feature!

      It's visual kitten. Might have to play with nameplates only to not be distracted by it.

    • Skro.2691Skro.2691 Member ✭✭

      Plz make mounts not able to stealth. TY.

    • Basharic.1654Basharic.1654 Member ✭✭
      edited March 20, 2019

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

      I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue

      Yeah, mounts not being affected by CC's is a general mount thing. Break-bar support already partially exists, since I think during original mount development, it was something we were considering.

      As far as the comments about dismount traps not being used, it's certainly something we've thought about. It's one of the reasons we didn't launch with it. But it's also pretty low cost to implement. We even already had the icon for it, since it was something we had considered during warclaw development.

      Not totally relevant to the mount discussion but:

      The single best thing you could do with tricks and traps would be to make them capable of being set to a keybind. You don't need to change the cast times or costs, but we've literally got to perform three interface actions to use them, not to mention finding them in our bags - not a huge deal with supply traps, as those are generally used preventatively at our leisure, but painters and disablers need to be used quickly, often while maneuvering under fire.

      It would be a massive quality of life upgrade to have at least one key bound to "Activate user-designated item in inventory." That would have a ton of usefulness across the entire game - WvW and PvE especially. Commanders could set their favorite siege, roamers/scouts/borderland moms could bind tricks and traps based on their need. PvE players could bind all manner of doodads that are barred from WvW, if not at least set to salvage kits, boosters, or food, so we don't have to open our bags as much.

    • DaFishBob.6518DaFishBob.6518 Member ✭✭✭

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

      • Working on a dismount trap

      Make a trick version that creates a turret to shoot nets or water balloons at mounts to slow them down.

      My latest threads:
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79102/black-lion-salvage-kit-problem-with-salvage-all-options
      https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74107/wvw-participation-from-repeatable-achievements

    • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
      Fix to Perfect Fit achievement will be nice too

    • havenstance.1746havenstance.1746 Member ✭

      @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
      Dismounting skill should absolutely dismount both players. You're obviously acknowledging the problem a non-mounted player has vs a mounted one, so creating a situation where two mounted players results in one mounted and one dismounted doesn't make things better, and it just promotes trolling.

      Dismounting in this fashion should also put both players into combat so they can't just remount.

      Would also encourage that the dismount skill cost supply. Would be OK if Sniff did as well btw.

      I'd be okay with Sniff costing supply as long as the cooldown was a bit shorter. 30 seconds and maybe 2 supply per sniff, that way you can watch a zerg move, but at a small price. Encourages strategy, could actually be fun :)

    • Drastic.8920Drastic.8920 Member ✭✭

      Please consider an ICD if a player was forced to dismount.

    • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
      Dismounting skill should absolutely dismount both players. You're obviously acknowledging the problem a non-mounted player has vs a mounted one, so creating a situation where two mounted players results in one mounted and one dismounted doesn't make things better, and it just promotes trolling.

      Dismounting in this fashion should also put both players into combat so they can't just remount.

      Would also encourage that the dismount skill cost supply. Would be OK if Sniff did as well btw.

      I am in full support of all of these. Sniff feels slightly overpowered and a supply cost would fix that. It would also give supply management meaning for scouts/roamers who typically don't have to care about this sort of thing.

    This discussion has been closed.
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