Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.
Short-term
- We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
- We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
- Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.
- Mounts will no longer be able to be stealthed. We felt mounts provide enough value without stealth and, as many have noticed, there were several visual bugs with stealth involved.
Medium to Long-term
- Working on a dismount trap
- Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
Even Longer term
- We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.
Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.
Edit 2: Added Stealth info
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Comments
Dismounting skill should absolutely dismount both players. You're obviously acknowledging the problem a non-mounted player has vs a mounted one, so creating a situation where two mounted players results in one mounted and one dismounted doesn't make things better, and it just promotes trolling.
Dismounting in this fashion should also put both players into combat so they can't just remount.
Would also encourage that the dismount skill cost supply. Would be OK if Sniff did as well btw.
Cool stuff.
For clarification: it sounds like this is for all (non-chair) mounts in PvE as well? No more dismount climbing over tricky terrain?
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Let's see how the dismount skill works first. Ofc it should dismount both party's too.
No, this is just for the WvW mount. PvE mounts won't be affected.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Good to hear. I am going to miss it in WvW, though, as jumping over fences or other small obstacles is a nice mechanic to have.
Both parties should be dismounted, yes.
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Both parties should be dismounted and if the skill misses due to an evade there should be a cool down on the action before it can be repeated.
Breakbar sounds like the best idea! Dismount traps and skill are definitely something I expected to come with the mount, so yay for adding those!
Smart choices.
Skill should definitely dismount both, or everybody if it's aoe
Bite me.
So you can still stealth on a mount?.. glad to see you're ignoring that. /sarcasm
Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader
WVW LEADER
VR
I'm also on board with this new dismount skill also dismounting the player using it. No sense in giving someone an advantage where, especially in havoc groups, you can dismount enemy players anywhere and basically surround them for free. It should be an engagement tactic and pose a risk to the mounted player. That said.... I don't know how I'd feel about having that dismount potential available to everyone.
I'm not even sure that a dismount trap will solve the problem of mounts in WvW. Most zergs will, at some point, find the urge to dismount and attack players or objectives. The utility that a dismount trap could bring would be rendered null, because it would mainly be used near hotspots and objectives. I guess it could help havoc groups clear out the solo roamers, but that would depend on the cost of the trap (versus the reward... which is usually nil).
Perhaps an improvement, or tactic, that prevents you from mounting up in other server territories would be ideal.
The first thing you should do is remove the wvw mount until you fix all those problems. Being honest this has only brought problems to WVW, so far only generates visual contamination by the abuse of bugs / glitch. And being even more sincere does not give any use in wvw, only problems.
If jump/dismounting is being removed, can the actual jump height be improved upon some?
I feel like I get stuck on the smallest of obstacles frequently, and will find myself dismounting to run through areas with shoddy/tricky collision.
This and chain pull being useless. Frankly I'm good with the low damage, but supply cost should go away.
How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?
Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.
If it helps, just make hard CC dismount a player and skip the UI development. It isn't like there is a ton of easy to access hard CC in the game. Since hard CC wasn't an issue before mounts I cannot see why having hard CC insta dismount changes anything.
I wouldn't even bother with the trap since stealth traps are minimally useful at best and typically easy to avoid by dodging over them.
There is a lot of server side skill lags since the Warclaw got introduced. Before, there were lags when all 3 servers fought each other with 50+. Now there is a lot of lag even with only 2 servers and less than 100 people involved in the fight.
Please fix.
Kodash [EU]
Perhaps they should add 2 different types of dismount traps..
Small and large.
Small Trap costs less supply and will trigger when an enemy mounted player triggers it locking them in combat for several seconds.. good for ambush tactics and roaming.
Large Trap costs more supply, has larger radious and will only trigger when 5-10 players are within it's radious at the same time and would leave a short AoE field that would dismount other players entering it for a few seconds after the trap was triggered.. would be used to counter mounted groups and zergs.
I like the idea of a break bar for the mount, but even though it's not likely, I'd like control skill effects or holds to carry over from mounted to dismounted. Different classes have different ranges for control skills and practical needs to have them on their bars or not, it would still make using a control ability useless if it even managed to kill the break bar and dismount the player but still leaving them will full dismounted capabilities.
Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]
Can we get an anti-respawn trap too so we can further prevent other people from enjoying the game?
you realize the supply cost is their so that rams don't just get deleted right?
Seriously why not just make it ccable, it has enough evades and hp as it is. I don't see why skills which are already low on range and evadeable like Bola strike shouldn't work on it. Adding a dismount trap is not a good idea and I can already see it being almost never used just as all of the other traps. Just make it so players won't be able to use cc skills immediately after dismounting and everything is good.
Considering the mobility of the mount, I too hope that break bar is fairly easy to break.
That said, solid changes overall. Thanks for the update.
~ Kovu
Ranger, Fort Aspenwood.
I would wonder if the CC issue is that no other mount is succeptable to CCs. It sounds more like a mount programming issue than strictly a Warclaw issue
Thank You for the {MEME}
I agree with this 100%. There should be no debate about it. If you don't dismount both players, you're not fixing the problem, you're just creating a new one.
And thank you @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 for the update. I am glad it’s being watched and adapted even if I am not always in concert with the changes.
Thank You for the {MEME}
Are you considering adjustments to the mount speed? Being faster than maximum running speed brings the problem of peeps without mounts not being able to catch up. This may be intended in some situations but not in others (if the classical roaming class can catch up with their mobility skills, that might be working out. it might be a more severe problem for zergs zergs though - but i'm rarely zerging).
Edit: I'm really grateful you're letting us know you're planning some adjustments. Greatly appreciated, independent of what you decide for in the end!
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065
Can you give us a rough estimate as to when Short/Medium/Long term changes might take effect?
Big thank to get a few words from you on this meant alot to me.
They won't because with their far superior damage, if you're serious about taking the tower/keep you're going to use them. Chain pull, even free, would take too long.
How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?
Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.
Dismount on both sides, that way there is a price to pay if you want to dismount another. Are you planning on this being a 1 to 1 dismount skill or 1 to many (AOE)?
Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC
Yeah, mounts not being affected by CC's is a general mount thing. Break-bar support already partially exists, since I think during original mount development, it was something we were considering.
As far as the comments about dismount traps not being used, it's certainly something we've thought about. It's one of the reasons we didn't launch with it. But it's also pretty low cost to implement. We even already had the icon for it, since it was something we had considered during warclaw development.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Do not forget to fix the no mount areas in the catmander rooms so people can mount inside the cat boxes. That or make the achievement count by using a ca transformation like the one obtained from rollerbeetles.
Here's some recommendations for the warclaw:
Instead adding anew skill to dismount enemies, adapt the the Chain Pull skill to work on other mounts, to make it more intuitive and easier to use.
When used on another mount, it'll tether to the the other mount and flip over to a new "Chain Lasso" skill.
The lasso will also work on champions like Lords to break their defiance bar, but it will only do 2000 damage per pull at most.
Add a way for non-pof players to catch up. For example:
An improved speed effect. It could be obtained in one of several ways:
A new WvW ability tier for the warclaw would give it n aura that would grant out of combat speed to allies as long as they are close enough. It would not affect allies in combat.
Pulling carts.
Mount rental:
Add a new "Dolyak Walker" tier to the WvW mastery that will allow using Skill 3 to tether the mount to a dolyak. Under no other effects, the dolyak will move as fast as when under swiftness when tethered to a warclaw, but the warclaw speed will be changed to match the exact speed of the dolyak (e.g.: slower when crippled faster with superspeed). Only 3 mounts would be able to tether to a single dolyak, but there would be no bonuses for doing so. This would be mostly a way to allow following dolyaks with autorun more comfortbly.
Dismount trap:
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Good to know. Thanks.
Thank You for the {MEME}
Thanks for the update.
Is there any ETA on the bug where people coming out of stealth can appear to still be on their mounts even when they've dismounted?
Keep it up. These changes are in the right direction.
The traps might come in handy if used with strategy in mind by let's say commanders leading zeros but it definitely doesn't fix the issue of roaming being made essentially impossible, I've already seen many cases of looney toons themed chases in which 10 guys tried to constantly chase down one mounted player who just zig zags and throws them off each time they dismount.
A break bar might work but ironically only if it'll break after one cc attack. Cc is rare as it is not to even talk about ranged cc and having a break bar which is designed to break after multiple attacks is useless if you somehow unimaginably manage to hit multiple scarse cc skills on a constantly evading fast mount it means that you definitely had enough time to just lower it's hp to 0 (I can't stress enough how impossible it would be to exceed the break bar if it'll soak more then one hit)
Thx BenP,
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.
This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.
Thats a Feature!
It's visual kitten. Might have to play with nameplates only to not be distracted by it.
Not yet, we're still looking into this one.
As far as rough estimates of the time. Short term is weeks. I don't want to say on the rest, as we're still figuring out our team's release cadence after recent events.
Oh, and the bug with the cat boxes should go on the short term fix. I'll edit my original post to add that.
About the chain pull usefulness: We've been considering a couple changes. But not sure when we'll get to it. Unless we do option 1 which is really easy.
1. Easy: Just up the damage
2. Not as easy: Change it to spend supply up front and try to make it a charged skill. This way we can more easily adjust the damage/supply.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Plz make mounts not able to stealth. TY.
Not totally relevant to the mount discussion but:
The single best thing you could do with tricks and traps would be to make them capable of being set to a keybind. You don't need to change the cast times or costs, but we've literally got to perform three interface actions to use them, not to mention finding them in our bags - not a huge deal with supply traps, as those are generally used preventatively at our leisure, but painters and disablers need to be used quickly, often while maneuvering under fire.
It would be a massive quality of life upgrade to have at least one key bound to "Activate user-designated item in inventory." That would have a ton of usefulness across the entire game - WvW and PvE especially. Commanders could set their favorite siege, roamers/scouts/borderland moms could bind tricks and traps based on their need. PvE players could bind all manner of doodads that are barred from WvW, if not at least set to salvage kits, boosters, or food, so we don't have to open our bags as much.
Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Make a trick version that creates a turret to shoot nets or water balloons at mounts to slow them down.
My latest threads:
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79102/black-lion-salvage-kit-problem-with-salvage-all-options
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74107/wvw-participation-from-repeatable-achievements
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
Fix to Perfect Fit achievement will be nice too
I'd be okay with Sniff costing supply as long as the cooldown was a bit shorter. 30 seconds and maybe 2 supply per sniff, that way you can watch a zerg move, but at a small price. Encourages strategy, could actually be fun
Well you cant use skill 1 without dismounting yourself... so what's there to consider? Just make skill 1 dismount.
Also I would still say the HP need to be knocked down a couple of thousand.
Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.
Please consider an ICD if a player was forced to dismount.
I am in full support of all of these. Sniff feels slightly overpowered and a supply cost would fix that. It would also give supply management meaning for scouts/roamers who typically don't have to care about this sort of thing.
Hey please dont infracture my post... But why wasn't this thought of before the release of Warclaw mounts? No one in the studio thought " how will other players engage each other in smaller groups? " if everyone is on mounts it's just cat and mouse and no one can dismount unless they want to engage. This ruins the WvW experience for both sides because.. 1. Theres no risk you can just Run from people you dont want to fight, theres no challenge in it. 2. Mount has too much health so even if i use maul to engage , i cant deal enough damage to get the other player off mount as im trying to catch up to them. Players always going to complain about getting ganked thats a natural occurrence in WvW . That's like saying oh man im getting outnumbered constantly. That's just the part of WvW , sometimes you will get outnumbered. Don't make it easier for that small group of players who never want to play and just Karma train for dailies and log out.
HOW TO BALANCE WAR CLAW:
Reduce the mount health from 10k to 5000-4000 and make BOTH players dismount when using engage target. That's how you balance war claw.
Thought's on defiance bar?
If it's anything like the War banner tactivators, i'm going to have to say no to that idea. Give them skills that can make them immune to CC but still give counter play like a skill that gives mount stability, instead of the current 100% immunity to all CC's. That is just ridiculous.
I second this, no player who is dismounted and can OOC (OUT OF COMBAT) really quickly like a dash thief or a Mirage with ports, should be able to mount up instantly. Please put a CD on it if the mount was killed or player was forcefully dismounted. Like 20 seconds or something.