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Do we still hate gearcheck and dps meters?


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While it may seem jerk-ish to ask players if they're running meta builds or if they're wearing the right gear needed for certain builds in LFG, I don't think that's the case. You wanting dedicated and competent players who run the appropriate gear for their builds and know how each encounter goes on fractals at higher tiers like tier 3 and tier 4 is not a bad thing at all.

Meta isn't the most important thing for me in fractals. I sometimes come across at least one player running a build on higher tiers like burn guardian/firebrand, condition mirage, condition thief, etc., and most, if not all boss encounters went really well thanks to those players knowing the boss mechanics on the higher tiers.

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It depends on how much leeway you allow from 100% meta. And if you understand what build they are playing and in what way is it different from meta. I have no problem if someone is close to meta but not 100% meta. I actually personally play commander/minstrels chrono for my fractals even though diviners is technically meta.

On the other hand there are people that quite clearly play some weird builds that make little to no sense, like guardian with all signets. That would probably not fly.

Don't confuse meta with viable. There are plenty viable specs and builds out there that are not meta

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@"Krzysztof.5973" said:Gearchecking someone in " everyone is welcome " lfg makes no sense whatsoever. But If I need players for CM speedclear I would like to check if they're playing correct build mentioned in lfg.

My point was, get a static or join a guild that does CMs on daily runs. LFG is gambling, I'm sure you know that meta gear is not a guaranteed success.

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Ask for 250 CM KPs and you don't need to ask for pinging the gear. During my CM grindings I barely had players faking or pretending to be better than they were. Of course Shenanigans happened from time to time but it was very rare and I'm still not sure/you'll never know if those underperformers just had a bad day when they joined the group back in the days.Keep in mind that if you ask for a certain amount the players also demand the appropriate gear, skill and experience from you. They'll most likely use ArcDPS as well and will be able to rate your performance. So, sneaking into groups or making your own although you have nothing to keep up with will get you booted very fast. Statics work best but it's also no problem with pugs.

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Any leg armor don't show stats on link. Some ascent armor don't show stats on link.It is not problem to have ascent set in bag for link and use another if u want do do that.

Best check click click click kp's. But now for exsapmle 50kp is not guarantee nothing .. After some time we will prevent think about another/additional check .. May be only fractal godness, or something like that.

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We started asking for the Fractal God title OR 250+ KP a while back after having tried different messages to fill our last spot whenever our static misses a member. Appropriate players join almost instantly now. ArcDPS will show you the rest as even Fractal Gods aren't always at the level you expect them to be.

There is one rule I have always followed myself whenever I pug: "No matter what happens - never argue with pugs, even more so if you happen to be the pug trying to run alongside a guild group or a group of friends". Giving hints and pointers is one thing but then you get the type that feels the need to lecture everyone on absolutely everything. No matter how much you feel that you are right, it is just a waste of time. And most of all your own.

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@Krzysztof.5973 said:Is it really that bad if you're asking for meta build in the lfg and being able to check those who join your party / squad if they're being honest?

Not needed for regular fractals (KP or title for CMs works fine).

Gear and meta builds are only of concern if you want to increase chance of decent performance.

Cut out the middleman:Get arcdps and check if people are performing as to your liking (yourself included). Leave group or kick if need be.

Me personally, I don't care what people run as long as:

  • the supports do their job
  • the dps do their job
  • the healer (if present) does his job

If some random power scourge (insert any class you like) feels he can bring decent damage and does so, why would I replace him?

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Get arcdpsIt not so absolutely good choose. Anet not support that, sometimes u have additional crash, or etc. Also u always take worry - is not come some policy changes about arcdps and it is still softly legal.May be good idea is Anemt create his own dps meter. Will see.

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@lare.5129 said:

Get arcdpsIt not so absolutely good choose. Anet not support that, sometimes u have additional crash, or etc. Also u always take worry - is not come some policy changes about arcdps and it is still softly legal.May be good idea is Anemt create his own dps meter. Will see.

I have been running arcdps for over 1.5 years. Delta connected keeps it updated within minutes/hours of a new patch. Crashes to arc are more seldom than disconnects for me personally.

I'm sure a policy change to arc would have reddit and these forums light up like a Christmas tree during the merry season. Absolutely unjustified panic.

But do as you want, if you want to ask for gear pings and assume people's builds, be my guest.

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I think this game has an infinitely more toxic environment than WoW and FFXIV precisely because it allows for a lot of obfuscation, so when there is failure there are no practical parsing tools and add ons to not only show DPS, but healing and damage taken, and specifically pinpointing what the damage intake was for each member so you know who's failing mechanics.

Often people will pull up DPS meters, which DO matter, but 12-13k is more than enough and the reason people want even higher numbers is because they want to ignore that sometimes the reason they are wiping is because they are failing soft mechanics (by soft mechanics, I mean taking unnecessary damage that may not necessarily be lethal but when taken frequently enough leads to DPS loss because the player starts panicking about trying to not die, the healer is over stressed and trying to chase down improperly positioned, panicked players and in general the attention span for the group breaks and mechanics start to get sloppy).

I see this more than ever in Artsariv, where she is a very simple encounter if you a) don't eat more orange circles than you need to, b)use your hypernova to break stuns if stability is not being applied, c) the adds are being ignored in lieu of trying to tunnel DPS and they end up cleaving the party down with certain instabilities.

Same goes for MAMA in CM, it's a total disaster when people start ignoring how vital damage avoidance and proper CC application are to the encounter.

So when people don't have the add on and tools support to tell fact from fiction through hard data, they start making conclusions on mere anecdote. And that's just terrible for the health of the game.

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@Zenith.7301 said:(by soft mechanics, I mean taking unnecessary damage that may not necessarily be lethal but when taken frequently enough leads to DPS loss because the player >starts panicking about trying to not die, the healer is over stressed and trying to chase down improperly positioned, panicked players and in general the attention >span for the group breaks and mechanics start to get sloppy).

I swear to god, some players are actively trying to die. I had a Soulbeast on Sloth yesterday that would always stand on the poison floor. People can't be that oblivious of their environment, right? They legit try to die.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:(by soft mechanics, I mean taking unnecessary damage that may not necessarily be lethal but when taken frequently enough leads to DPS loss because the player >starts panicking about trying to not die, the healer is over stressed and trying to chase down improperly positioned, panicked players and in general the attention >span for the group breaks and mechanics start to get sloppy).

I swear to god, some players are actively trying to die. I had a Soulbeast on Sloth yesterday that would always stand on the poison floor. People can't be that oblivious of their environment, right? They legit try to die.

And blame the healer for it usually. You have people who try a DPS speed rush but they clearly don't have the skill to do mechanics, just perform a rotation on a raid golem, and then they are indignant that they are not allowed to facetank a boss into victory.

You would think years long after Arkk and MAMA/Siax have been released, people would realize how much simpler it is to do the damn mechanic instead of flipping out because the DPS failed to solo kill the anomaly or the healer didn't heal through the adds on Artsariv during boon overload+afflicted week.

DPS bringing no CC or stability for MAMA/Skorvald when it's obvious there's no quickbrand or the one quickbrand there is not applying stability, swap one of those DPS utilities that give a marginal DPS increase (like mantra or pain on power chrono being swapped by mantra of concentration).

Druids refusing to use healing spring over signet heal during afflicted week or DPS refusing to help out on afflicted fractals with high mob density not bringing their own condi cleanse. Refusing to use traited elite spirit for stability on final Chaos Isles boss or Skorvald last phase or MAMA last phase, etc.

DPS failing to swap in reflect for we bleed fire week, etc.

This game has issues with people constantly trying to brute force an encounter through DPS and failing at it and instead of adjusting their play to do mechanics they can't skip through, throw a tantrum and leaving.

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I only really care about results.

DPS meters tend to blind people as they can show raw values, but can't show non-mensurable factors, so I'm not a fan of those.

But I would not mind having some sort of "breakdown" that appears after party wipes and at the end of a fractal, dungeon and after each raid boss.Kind of like the one at the end of PvP matches, but more detailed.Something good enough to see what went wrong and people can learn from their mistakes, but that won't be an excuse to criticize people if they are not doing a much damage as possible, since everyone has their personal circumstances.If the content is done, that's good for me, even if it takes +1 min.

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Raids are already cesspools of elitism might as well give them the full basket; I mean the only thing that will change is they will cannibalize themselves and be at conflict with one another. But Inevitably those meters and such things would bleed into other forms of the game (PvP, WvW, Fractals ect) So no. I don't want them and I don't care for them just like I think raids are a waste of time so would this.

If you want this game to become WoW the sequel then sure by all means, and watch as this game literally kills itself because raids were intended for a small obscure number of the player base. Giving them the tools to do such things means now everyone has them, and they will be abused like any other facet that an elitist can use to make sure people play "Their" way.

but then again... Who knows; We might not even survive that long at this current pace.

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ArcDPS as the most wide spread damage meter, or more accurately gameplay meter (as it would be silly to pretend ArcDPS only shows damage), is a tool like any other. The tool itself is neither evil nor elitist. It comes down to the people and how they use such tools.

And the overall gameplay on the higher levels of PvE and WvW has already been greatly affected by said tool. Our understanding of certain gameplay features, class mechanics and abilities has deepened and improved greatly ever since these meters were introduced. But especially since we gained the ability to have proper logs through sites like dpsreport.Toxicity and elitism has been present from the start. Neither PvE nor WvW have become more toxic than they had been before. The only difference being that those who like to blame others won't pick random targets after a few bad things happen, they rather blame the person who is to blame - according to the logs (or possibly their misinterpretation of said logs). This often seen inability to interpret logs properly is another issue with the people rather than the meters themselves.

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@Hoodie.1045 said:While it may seem jerk-ish to ask players if they're running meta builds or if they're wearing the right gear needed for certain builds in LFG, I don't think that's the case. You wanting dedicated and competent players who run the appropriate gear for their builds and know how each encounter goes on fractals at higher tiers like tier 3 and tier 4 is not a bad thing at all.

Meta isn't the most important thing for me in fractals. I sometimes come across at least one player running a build on higher tiers like burn guardian/firebrand, condition mirage, condition thief, etc., and most, if not all boss encounters went really well thanks to those players knowing the boss mechanics on the higher tiers.I personally don't care for people who ask for Gear and DPS check you. I don't necessarily have a problem with it - as you do you. I take issue when it's done during the raid, as a means of pointing blame rather than just sucking it up and go again.

Raids... I can accept arguments for the need of meta builds. ANET for some reason put doom timers on almost all of the raids that forces you to meet a DPS requirement. It's not very high, but it's enough for some bosses where it can cost you a few minutes of effort. And also the requirement for healers because of constantly ticking percentile damage.

You don't need it for the Tier 4 fractals, which I believe are harder than the raids. The problem that everyone misunderstands about the current PvE meta, is that it's a speed runner's meta. It's designed to get you through as quickly as possible, not as safely as possible. But because of that, sacrifices are made that prevents you from recovering when the situation turns FUBAR. You often will fail multiple times on Mai-Trin because everyone went glassy, and the only one who's not is your party's healer. And low and behold, the situation spirals out of control when he goes down. Or someone was caught out and blasted immediately.

As a thief main, I generally bounce around equipment that meets the scenario. Mai Trin, I'll take some gear that will give me a bit of survivability. So Healing power on the Trinkets and marauder's or Valks gear depending on how squishy the group I got is. My team may go down in before the boss hits a 1/4th of their HP is missing. Especially when you are forced to face tank damage from time to time, or you backed off because your health is low and and the AoEs would have taken you out, causing Mai to jump on you. But I can get them back up pretty easily, as I can survive for a very long time in the fight.

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@Krzysztof.5973 said:The simple solution to that would be to allow gearcheck only inside Mistlock Observatory, Aerodrome and Raids. We don't DESPERATELY need it, but If players already put effort into making such tool why not use it?

No, a simple damage meter which tracks required performance data would be sufficient.

What good is gear checking someone if you can't see how they perform on that gear? What about people who have their own builds but perform well on them?

Gear checking is a means to an end: the end being that one wants a certain performance out of the person who you are checking.

Again, stop using convoluted systems, get a proper system which does what you desire: something which tracks performance. Then you can remove all guessing and let people play what they want as long as they bring the desired performance.

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