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Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes

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  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

    Short-term

    • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
    • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
    • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

    Medium to Long-term

    • Working on a dismount trap
    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    Even Longer term

    • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

    Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

    Nerfing mount movement is a short-term solution, but you will have to handle those terrain problems sooner or later, since multiple professions have been able to abuse them across the years (and some still do).

    And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.

    Anyway, I posted this at reddit a few days ago. It's a warclaw redesign (now called panther) plus two additional mount ideas. Might serve as an inspiration for where to go next:


    Panther

    • Medium speed, medium health.
    • Skill 1: Leap at enemies. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Grappling Hook, pulls enemies on foot. Can be used to dismount enemy players, but you get dismounted as well. Telegraphed, and can be dodged. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn Disabling Hook on/off. Disables siege weapons, but locks you to them, forcing you to stick nearby. Dismounting or moving too far disables the hook. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Leap forward. Three endurance bars.
    • Special: Your mount can swim.

    Dolyak

    • Slow speed, high health.
    • Skill 1: Charge forward moving the horns, launching enemies in your path. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Headbutt a nearby gate. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn Shield Bubble on/off. Can be used while moving. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Gain stability, and become invulnerable to dismounts. Two endurance bars.
    • Special: You can load supply pack into your dolyak, letting you deliver it wherever you want, just as a supply dolyak. The supply pack will be lost if you dismount.

    Moa

    • Fast speed, low health.
    • Skill 1: Slash at a single target repeatedly. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Applies reveal and marks nearby enemies on the world map. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn stealth on/off. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Greatly increases your movement speed, roller beetle levels. One endurance bar.
    • Special: Your mount detects WvW traps.

    Additional notes:

    • You can only equip one mount at once. To swap mounts, you need to go back to the respawn.
    • Dismounts in combat put the mount on cooldown for 30 seconds.
    • Trap redesign, now they have 20 charges each, consuming 1 every time an enemy steps inside. New trap, dismounts enemy players. Siege Disablers affect traps now. New trick lets you destroy traps.

    I think mounts have a lot of potential for WvW, but they must become a significant part of combat, or they will never become a real part of WvW.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vegeta.2563 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Vegeta.2563 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Reduce the mount health from 10k to 5000-4000

    Mount hp is 12,096.

    mine is 10.8k?

    Full masteries?

    Mount HP is affected by HP-increasing runes. I don't know if that's intended, bugged, or an oversight.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • Dondarrion.2748Dondarrion.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Medium to Long-term

    • Working on a dismount trap
    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    psssttt
    Check out the horse "Charge" skill in Black Desert Online... it would be cool if this skill could be "tiered" in success rate depending on say, warclaw mastery rank, so that at lower levels there's a greater likelihood of yourself being dismounted too, or even for the charge to dismount the other player even fails, and then at top mastery rank you have a greater success rate of both dismounting the other and remaining on your own mount.

    Northerner @ Dragon Season
    Seafarer's Rest since launch!

  • xAtri.9378xAtri.9378 Member ✭✭

    A way to dismount already mounted players should also dismount you, it could be implemented such that it dismounts you and any mounts (upto 5) near the target in a certain AoE (360 / 480).

    A dismount trap i think would be pointless unless it applied some sort of condition / put people in combat otherwise people just mount back up. But this has other issues where in theory one person could probably hold an entire zerg in combat (if that's the implmentation that's chosen) and it just feels like unnecessary.

    Re: Breakbars to mounts, I don't think it's necessary since the mounts are too fast that most ranged stuns are unable to track the mount well not to mention the 3 evades puts them out of range. So I really don't see a point in adding this.


    Mount related suggestion that's not in the list.
    I would like if the movement speed was constant irrespective of territory as it becomes extremely annoying to chase down someone who is on their "home turf" because they are at a camp that they own and can get away from you while you are still mounted.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @Lishtenbird.2814 said:

    @martin.3692 said:
    have you considered that wvw is just not the gamemode for you ?

    Have you considered that it might not be financially viable to maintain a game mode for a fringe hardcore PvP community in a primarily casual PvE game, and furthermore, to also cater to a fringier "roaming" community? WvWers don't really bring money to GW2 outside of server transfers, and with Alliances, even that will likely be gone; all they do is eat out server resources daily, and then boast how they don't care about fashion, story, PvE and so on, and then their game mode is gradually dying in its own stasis field while the rest of the game evolves. Mount skins are at least some sort of profit from that section of players, and the more players are interested in these skins, the better - and to get them interested in a mount that's useless in PvE, they should find WvW enjoyable instead of frustrating, whether hardcore mode supporters like that or not. And that's also likely why WvW mounts were developed and released before Alliances.

    if you feel like WvW has a hardcore community, then you really are new here. soon you will see WvW is as casual as open world pve.

  • Micky.3648Micky.3648 Member ✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    Hey Hey Spotlight here please :<

    Probly a bit off topic.
    Will there ever be a chance to get emotes work with Mounts? Especially the /Sit emote?......

    A reply would really be appreciated : >
    Been waiting for this feature since POF release :<

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Mechanix.9315 said:
    Thx BenP,

    Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.

    This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.

    Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

    I think this is the wrong approach, and for two reasons:

    1. As I've already stated, I think the dismount ability should dismount both players simultaneously. If the ability is done at range, then it gives immediate advantage to ranged classes vs melee, who might even get downed before they have an opportunity to close the gap. It also, again, opens up the possibility of people trolling, where high mobility classes will just dismount players and then rabbit off.

    2. Designing the dismount ability around melee range means territory provides an advantage. A player mounted in friendly territory is better able to chase down and dismount an enemy player because their Warclaw moves faster, while at the same time has an easier time of evading / escaping an enemy player trying to do the same to them. This whole idea of "risk" I keep seeing kicked about is exactly this: you should be at "risk" when in enemy territory just as your enemy should be at "risk" while in yours.

    Bonus Point:
    3. One of the major complaints I've seen about the mount's immunity to CC is that enemy players can mount up and contest a ring while being effectively immortal if they are good with their dodges. This is a large reason why many are asking for the ability to dismount other players.

    Simple fix then: remove the ability of a player to contest/capture a point while mounted.

  • Erick Alastor.3917Erick Alastor.3917 Member ✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
    Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.

    What I like about the current mount, other than taking you back to action quickly, is the effect of standardizing a bit the ability to not engage or to disengage among all classes.
    Giving players a way to easly dismount you from your mount will take that away.
    Considering a non organized scenario, classes like thief or scrapper will still be able to avoid combat almost without any sacrifice, while some others will suffer more from this change.
    In my opinion the current iteration of the Warclaw isn't affecting roaming in a bad way, but it's just mitigating not organized ganking, which has a good effect expecially for new players trying this game mode.
    I guess you're already set on your decision, since you're already discussing the range of the new skill, but I'm giving you my feedback anyway.
    I think WvW is more fun now (glitches apart), particularly for a more casual player.
    What should be addressed (from my point of view) is the lack of access to the new mount for the new f2p players . We should let them taste it in some way, incentivizing PoF purchase.

    edit:
    I just read this suggestion and I find it fair:
    Remove the ability of a player to contest/capture a point while mounted.

  • Beanna.6712Beanna.6712 Member ✭✭

    I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.

  • @martin.3692 said:
    WvW is about ... player versus player tactical combat.

    I like how you deacronymed PvP but kept WvW acronymed, because otherwise it makes way less sense.

    • World versus World is about Player versus Player tactical combat.
    • Army versus Army is about Soldier versus Soldier tactical combat.
    • Fleet versus Fleet is about Boat versus Boat tactical combat.

    So, yeah. With more and more power coming back to gankers, you are, of course, free to

    @martin.3692 said:
    just deal with it

    yourself, but the thing is: you will be dealing with it in maps that are getting emptier and emptier because the amount of "true" WvWers is limited, and parts of those get bored and leave, while newer players are shooed away since they're told and shown that they're playing the mode "wrong", wanting mounts or what not.

    I must say that your plentiful messages are quite in line with that "veteran" protective, pro-roaming narrative, and are also an indication of why I started hating that game mode several years ago, but you kept playing it.

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Many Wvwers, old and new, who actually enjoyed Warclaw as it is now will eventually leave this game mode again because many are not veteran forum players

    Pretty much. I haven't stepped into WvW for 2 or 3 years (except for that one time when I was forced to grind a Gift of Battle track instead of just buying it with badges), and I already regret not getting the mount before the first wave of nerfs. Mobility and movement is all to me in this game, and the slugfest that is WvW to me otherwise doesn't entice me at all.

  • Djamonja.6453Djamonja.6453 Member ✭✭✭

    A breakbar on a mount that has 10k health in WvW is a waste of time. A dismount skill could make some casual WvW players stop playing if they are continuously dismounted while trying to get from point A to point B. IMO, the #1 way to fix the main problems with mounts in WvW is to stop them from being able to stealth (fix the other bugs with mounts of course, but bugged stealth'd mounts are really screwing up good fights).

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Lag issue. From bugs to support, wvw to in game tickets several players gave been asking you to fix this. Yet not even a single answer given to them (us).

    Can someone from anet please address this issue? At least give us an answer. I was really shocked when I saw this topic. Are you guys trying to cpver up the lag issue while working on it or are you not even aware or do not care about it?

  • Joey.2769Joey.2769 Member ✭✭

    Remove stealth on mounts and fix server lag caused by mounts. Please make that priority 1.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Chrury.4627 said:
    Cool stuff.

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.

    For clarification: it sounds like this is for all (non-chair) mounts in PvE as well? No more dismount climbing over tricky terrain?

    No, this is just for the WvW mount. PvE mounts won't be affected.

    Dang, was hoping :p (As it essentially gives POF owners a "Super Jump" that others doesn't have access to).

    +1 to dismount attack dismount both and put in combat.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    “Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
    “The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

  • Sabull.5670Sabull.5670 Member
    edited March 21, 2019

    Dismount attack should dismount both players or it would lead to frustration and further trolling.

    Breakbar sounds good, Warclaw absolutely needs a nerf as it is far too easy to surpass defences and choke holds of few people. Only some classes are able to snipe down a single mounted player but trying to say hold chokes vs multiple reinforcements just jumping past you cannot be done atm.

    Also person who let's themself get unmounted should get punished little bit harder. It is too simple just instantly stunbreak the dismount. Even half a second of unbreakable would be huge.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @Lonami.2987 posted a cool, idea, +1, i'm all for a mount that can swim. Dolyak sound very helpful, but I think too much mounts isn't healthy for WvW. You can try to change my mind. The only pro of warclaw is currently that you can now move around without being killed at the spawn by stealthy thief or mesmer.
    (Btw fixing that invincibility/ infinite stealth would have been a better solution, can't understand we still have scourge blobs, seriously, nerf red aoe of death)
    I definitely think that, more stronger racial siege weapons are a better solution than adding more mounts. It kinda destroy the soul of WvW... But more importantly, we need more maps!!! With all the current events, we could have a map melting with some fractals... very confusing with several environments like the chaos fractal.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • KelyNeli.4516KelyNeli.4516 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    So everyone without mount will be left in the mud against anyone with a mount? Why not implement something that everyone will benefit from?
    If you implement something broken and must-have then you dont balance it by forcing others to have it too, but you nerf it down to the ground so anyone without it will be able to deal with. smh

  • Andromeda.8293Andromeda.8293 Member ✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    I used to think a trap for dismounting would be a good idea, but after reading all the comments I can imagine zergs running around in wvw and getting dismounted every 5 seconds because trolls decided to set up dismount traps everywhere....imagine trying to run along the outside of SM and being dismounted every so often....

    I mean...I would probably drop dismount traps all the time in the way of the zerg just to be annoying.

    I think breakbars are a better idea. Or a throwable trap (like a disabler).

    Traps that can be set on the ground and I can leave there sound more problematic.

  • No no no....you all have it all wrong! What we REALLY need is a gliding mount with a stealth attack!!! Oh, and a full water borderland! There, Ama has fixed all problems. You're welcome.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    @Beanna.6712 said:
    I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.

    I agree a dismount trap is mostly pointless. I also believe the breakbar is mostly a waste as well. Lets say it takes two or three hard CC shots to hit the breakbar. How many builds have a hard cc that can fire 2-3 hard CC shots in a second or two against a target moving much faster than them? It will still be easier to DPS the mount than land multiple hard CC shots on a mount.

    Both these changes are essentially wasted developer effort. Any hard CC should dismount a player. No fancy UI development and doesn't unbalance the mount since hard CC had the same impact before mounts.

  • @Cronos.6532 said:
    Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

    Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Design Manager

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I have a better idea: make "pvers" immune to damage (permanent determined buff). Problems solved.

    We already have Righteous Indignation, fits perfectly. :p

  • PaladinVII.1647PaladinVII.1647 Member ✭✭✭

    My suggestion: Special action key appears when you are near someone who is mounted. If you successfully use the skill (while mounted or on foot), both you the user and the rider are dismounted and put in combat.

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

    Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

    Could be a tactic too, like enemy mounts not allowed when you pull it.

    I would also like to point out that PvE enemies have really good dismount skills, specially in PoF where the forged throw some bolas skill and instantly dismount players. You could add those to sentries and most npc guards too.

  • I think you should add a skill that will not allow you to be unmounted for a few seconds. If you run after it can happen otherwise, that one of the first best roamer is farmed.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Joey.2769 said:
    Remove stealth on mounts and fix server lag caused by mounts. Please make that priority 1.

    Seconding this. Remove the stealth.

  • DaFishBob.6518DaFishBob.6518 Member ✭✭✭

    @liurencija.2684 said:
    Making mounts cc'able would honestly be a very welcomed change in wvw, considering how currently it's possible to dodge all the initial spike from enemy groups without any tactical efforts and just one push them with full cd's.
    Also, could you change the leap on spacebar to a separate (dodge key) keybind instead? Some people would like to have a possibility to jump around while running mounted.

    There's already an option to do just that, disable conditional mount movement I think it's called in the option menu. Let's you jump when you hit jump instead of either jumping or mount dodging depending on movement.

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

    Short-term

    • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
    • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
    • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

    Medium to Long-term

    • Working on a dismount trap
    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    Even Longer term

    • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

    Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

    And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.

    I just had an image of two players being pulled off their mounts and colliding into each other, causing them both to be knocked down. Perfect.

  • gavyne.6847gavyne.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    Be careful what you chose to do with the mounts Ben. The forum is like a lobbying stage for various groups of players. Gankers and those playing cheese builds that 1 round players are lobbying very hard for multiple ways to dismount players. For the most part mounts as mobility enhancement to get to fights and join up with your groups/zergs is a good thing. It has given us more actions, less downtime.

    You need to first and foremost fix any bugs and glitches associated with mounts. Players with triple dodges, warping on the mounts, etc.. are bad and need fixed asap. You should also consider revealing players when mounting, much like when you glide. This will scale back the impact of invis blob of fast moving, triple dodging mounts having an impact on fights. Things that negatively affect fights should be fixed.

    I recommend giving mount skill 1 the ability to dismount players and take away stomping. Again, things that negatively affect fights should be discouraged. Allowing mount vs mount is a good thing, giving mounts the ability to dismount makes more sense than dismount traps. Think about who would want dismount traps, and how quickly it would make new players run away from WvW if the one thing that could get them back to their groups is nerfed to uselessness.

  • Nasbit.3240Nasbit.3240 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Medium to Long-term

    • Working on a dismount trap
    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    No need for a "new" skill, just use the chain-skill to fire a chain on a mounted player. If you activate pull chain once, you pull the player off the mount and dismount yourself too if successfull. Also put the other player and yourself infight - so none of them can mount again until getting OOC. Ez fix.

    Looking for some salt.

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    @PaladinVII.1647 said:
    My suggestion: Special action key appears when you are near someone who is mounted. If you successfully use the skill (while mounted or on foot), both you the user and the rider are dismounted and put in combat.

    At least some of that code is already there, if you've ever tried to do the roaming Hydra boss in Crystal Desert.

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am coming at this from a havoc/roamer/scout perspective. Right now we have some pretty good balance between small group and zerg. Please consider this if the dismount is to be a ranged attack, wouldn't look at range being more than it is now with the #1 skill or keep close in sync. Would not like zerg play to get extra benefit from it. Also when we are talking about dismounting both that's if the attacker lands, a dodged dismount should dismount the attacker but leave the evaded player mounted, if they dodged.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
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  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @borgs.6103 said:

    @Vegeta.2563 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Vegeta.2563 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Reduce the mount health from 10k to 5000-4000

    Mount hp is 12,096.

    mine is 10.8k?

    Full masteries?

    Mount HP is affected by HP-increasing runes. I don't know if that's intended, bugged, or an oversight.

    Even if that was intended, which I hope isn't, it should be changed so it no longer happens.
    At most only only the guild objective aura and effects from other player's skills should affect the Warclaw.
    Never food, enhancements or player gear.

  • I took a semi-quick look through the thread just now. Along with my occasional looks through the forum and our subreddit, there's a question that hasn't been asked, or answered, that I'm itching to see a Dev response on. And I just can't find one.

    Has anyone passed around the idea of making Warclaw a Raptor side-grade in Open World content?
    I play a fair bit of WvW myself. I have since launch. The work towards Warclaw wasn't too bad, and it changed how WvW works in a few ways that some may like and some dislike, but that's not really in the scope of this thread. Nonetheless, it's good to see it's still being tweaked.
    But Open World? I haven't seen anything on it. There, the mount is dreadfully slow, its movement ability is basically a dud and is barely able to cross a gap the player can. It also has no benefits from the WvW Warclaw Trait line, gaining neither extra speed nor its reduced movement ability stamina consumption. Its Dismount skill seems to be average from everything I can tell.

    I understand it wasn't really built with Open World in mind. That was said from the start, so no surprises there. It would still be nice if it had the same movement skill distance as a Raptor, and increased that distance when Raptor Mastery 3 is learned, just to keep it from being able to get around those "gates" that it's needed to circumvent. Increased movement speed would also be nice, but one thing at a time.
    Now seemed like a good time to ask about it, and I want to see what people think. Personally, it seems like a harmless change, and now that the bulk of PvE players have gotten it, it's very unlikely to cause a spike in Queues. So I can't see much reason to keep its Open World state as it is other than "just because."

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    My vote is for adding a dismount aspect to the kitty's battle maul. Landing that against a mounted enemy should be more rewarding than it currently is.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kayobi.5608 said:
    I took a semi-quick look through the thread just now. Along with my occasional looks through the forum and our subreddit, there's a question that hasn't been asked, or answered, that I'm itching to see a Dev response on. And I just can't find one.

    Has anyone passed around the idea of making Warclaw a Raptor side-grade in Open World content?
    I play a fair bit of WvW myself. I have since launch. The work towards Warclaw wasn't too bad, and it changed how WvW works in a few ways that some may like and some dislike, but that's not really in the scope of this thread. Nonetheless, it's good to see it's still being tweaked.
    But Open World? I haven't seen anything on it. There, the mount is dreadfully slow, its movement ability is basically a dud and is barely able to cross a gap the player can. It also has no benefits from the WvW Warclaw Trait line, gaining neither extra speed nor its reduced movement ability stamina consumption. Its Dismount skill seems to be average from everything I can tell.

    I understand it wasn't really built with Open World in mind. That was said from the start, so no surprises there. It would still be nice if it had the same movement skill distance as a Raptor, and increased that distance when Raptor Mastery 3 is learned, just to keep it from being able to get around those "gates" that it's needed to circumvent. Increased movement speed would also be nice, but one thing at a time.
    Now seemed like a good time to ask about it, and I want to see what people think. Personally, it seems like a harmless change, and now that the bulk of PvE players have gotten it, it's very unlikely to cause a spike in Queues. So I can't see much reason to keep its Open World state as it is other than "just because."

    I think there's really no point in spending development time on replicating Raptor for Open World PvE. It would take away the uniqueness of Raptor.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

    Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

    Item that lets you trigger special button skill with cooldown and stacks like the branded blood spears would do the trick.

  • StrawHat.2639StrawHat.2639 Member ✭✭✭

    More clutter added to mounts, instead of focusing on stuff that is really needed.
    Oh well good luck maybe someone in here will come up with something original to implement on them.

    Sanji
    Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW

    Anet dragon has finally defeated the
    **WvW WarBorn **
    He's over 7000!
    Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

    Short-term

    • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
    • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
    • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

    Medium to Long-term

    • Working on a dismount trap
    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    Even Longer term

    • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

    Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

    Nerfing mount movement is a short-term solution, but you will have to handle those terrain problems sooner or later, since multiple professions have been able to abuse them across the years (and some still do).

    And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.

    Anyway, I posted this at reddit a few days ago. It's a warclaw redesign (now called panther) plus two additional mount ideas. Might serve as an inspiration for where to go next:


    Panther

    • Medium speed, medium health.
    • Skill 1: Leap at enemies. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Grappling Hook, pulls enemies on foot. Can be used to dismount enemy players, but you get dismounted as well. Telegraphed, and can be dodged. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn Disabling Hook on/off. Disables siege weapons, but locks you to them, forcing you to stick nearby. Dismounting or moving too far disables the hook. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Leap forward. Three endurance bars.
    • Special: Your mount can swim.

    Dolyak

    • Slow speed, high health.
    • Skill 1: Charge forward moving the horns, launching enemies in your path. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Headbutt a nearby gate. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn Shield Bubble on/off. Can be used while moving. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Gain stability, and become invulnerable to dismounts. Two endurance bars.
    • Special: You can load supply pack into your dolyak, letting you deliver it wherever you want, just as a supply dolyak. The supply pack will be lost if you dismount.

    Moa

    • Fast speed, low health.
    • Skill 1: Slash at a single target repeatedly. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Applies reveal and marks nearby enemies on the world map. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn stealth on/off. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Greatly increases your movement speed, roller beetle levels. One endurance bar.
    • Special: Your mount detects WvW traps.

    Additional notes:

    • You can only equip one mount at once. To swap mounts, you need to go back to the respawn.
    • Dismounts in combat put the mount on cooldown for 30 seconds.
    • Trap redesign, now they have 20 charges each, consuming 1 every time an enemy steps inside. New trap, dismounts enemy players. Siege Disablers affect traps now. New trick lets you destroy traps.

    I think mounts have a lot of potential for WvW, but they must become a significant part of combat, or they will never become a real part of WvW.

    I like your idea for mount diversity but think they're too op for WvW. Mounts are just speed boost not an actual aspect to the experience. Kinda like gliding.. Its there but not needed. Plus you need POF expansion for mounts and Gw2 never really been a P2W kind of game. If anything they should allow you to trait mounts instead of having complete mastery. Like allowing your mount to run faster in ENEMY territory but at a sacrifice of health. Allowing different mount builds would be cool. So one mount is fast but only 2 dodges. Another has 3 dodges but is slow with low health and the last one more beefy with health but 1 dodge and medium speed.

    Not the Leader of " I will make you [QQ] ", just some how a mascot who everyone loves to hate.

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    The 12000 health is due to runes like Durability runes not a mastery. They need to fix that as well. As well as mounts not having AEGIS from guards or anything that gives aegis. Mounts should be immune to boons and stealth.

    Not the Leader of " I will make you [QQ] ", just some how a mascot who everyone loves to hate.

  • yorick.1305yorick.1305 Member ✭✭

    @Beanna.6712 said:
    I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.

    An no one would have touched it with a bargepole. Prime target or easy kill, more accurately...a sittin' duck.

  • Neftex.7594Neftex.7594 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    • Working on a dismount trap

    here we go again with adding siege item instead of fixing the problem. remember ghost thieves? stealth trap didnt fix anything and neither will the dismount trap

  • StrawHat.2639StrawHat.2639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Neftex.7594 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    • Working on a dismount trap

    here we go again with adding siege item instead of fixing the problem. remember ghost thieves? stealth trap didnt fix anything and neither will the dismount trap

    Its called clutter in my books.

    Sanji
    Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW

    Anet dragon has finally defeated the
    **WvW WarBorn **
    He's over 7000!
    Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging

  • Absconditus.6804Absconditus.6804 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    Personally can't say I like the proposed changes, besides the bug fix of course.

    The little hop on the mount was a fun little mechanic to use for shortcuts past open world terrain in the various maps and to give you that tiny little extra lift before you started gliding in areas you control. While not particularly difficult, it made for a new layer of skilled play you could learn to use within the mode and get better at. I do not like that people have been abusing it as an exploit to bypass walls, but I find it a bit sad that it is going to go away entirely. I also believe the Armistice Bastion jumping puzzle requires it certain places? Maybe I just found a different way of doing it with the mount hop though. Are you allowing it in the Bastion at least? In PvE for those that wants to bring it there? Not a fan of the removal over fixing the few places where it can be exploited. It's not that many that I can think of and I've only found and reported a single one (that I never shared or took advantage of I might add). I believe the same exploits are doable by, e.g., Engineers using their utility skills anyways, so fixing them is still of interest, right?

    Dismount trap I am somewhat okay with. A bit annoying perhaps to be randomly dismounted in the middle of nowhere because people have littered the ground with dismount traps everywhere even though they're not there themselves. And I am sure people will do that out of spite to discourage mount usage too. Not really a fan of the idea considering the latter. Definitely not a fan of the idea that you can use a mount skill to dismount other players, especially at range. As others have mentioned, without an ICD to mounting back up again, certain classes will have a super easy time and advantage by being able to Blink, Shadowstep, Stealth or otherwise travel large distances in a seconds time to mount back up again — compared to the rest who doesn't have this luxury. To be completely honest, these classes will have a large advantage regardless, if you were to add an easy-to-dismount feature, which is why I dislike the idea even more.

    The mounts has made the mode more "fair" when it comes to the ability to run back to your group, choosing your fights etc. — before, certain classes had a far easier time doing so than others, and with the mount, everyone now has an even playing field when it comes to things like that. It has made movement speed far less important outside of combat too, which is a good thing as not every build and class has equal opportunities to produce it. I have also only perhaps experienced three or four times, that our group were unable to dismount a player on a mount if we really wanted to dismount them, 10k HP is not that much to dish out and condition damage ticks on the mount HP as well. I am perhaps a bit biased on the latter as I am a Renegade-Revenant who can burst out large Torment numbers in a very short time, but perhaps incorporate one into your roaming group if you want to have an easier time dismounting enemies? Anyways, if they got away.. so what? They didn't want to fight, it was one target, their experience in the mode were better for it, while I can find someone else to fight. I am perfectly fine with that if it means the mode retains more and more players. All I've seen are smaller scale roamers complaining that they can't prey on players that don't want to fight them, or are actually unfit to fight them because they run a team-oriented build and not a build suited for dueling. What's the fun in fighting people who can't put up a fight?

    Why are you considering this dismounting business again? To appease the roamers who wants to have easy kills and doesn't want to adapt? They can build siege at strategic points to get people off mounts fast if they want, a ballista or two (if not solo) really does wonders. Maybe those so against the mount should try it sometime. You can also set up Ranger/Guardian traps in the same area to get someone off their mount. Mix in a Torment bomb in your roaming group. Adapt?

    A break-bar sounds fine, though I don't see the purpose when the roughly 10k HP is basically doing the same thing, but with damage over needing to dish out CC to break the bar, which is again advantageous to certain builds/classes. I prefer the HP "break-bar" over that.

    Seafarer's Rest | Enryon | Mistwarden [Hero]

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