@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.
Short-term
We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.
Medium to Long-term
Working on a dismount trap
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
Even Longer term
We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.
Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.
Nerfing mount movement is a short-term solution, but you will have to handle those terrain problems sooner or later, since multiple professions have been able to abuse them across the years (and some still do).
And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.
Anyway, I posted this at reddit a few days ago. It's a warclaw redesign (now called panther) plus two additional mount ideas. Might serve as an inspiration for where to go next:
Panther
Medium speed, medium health.
Skill 1: Leap at enemies. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
Skill 2: Grappling Hook, pulls enemies on foot. Can be used to dismount enemy players, but you get dismounted as well. Telegraphed, and can be dodged. Consumes supply with every use.
Skill 3: Turn Disabling Hook on/off. Disables siege weapons, but locks you to them, forcing you to stick nearby. Dismounting or moving too far disables the hook. Consumes supply while it's active.
Dodge: Leap forward. Three endurance bars.
Special: Your mount can swim.
Dolyak
Slow speed, high health.
Skill 1: Charge forward moving the horns, launching enemies in your path. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
Skill 2: Headbutt a nearby gate. Consumes supply with every use.
Skill 3: Turn Shield Bubble on/off. Can be used while moving. Consumes supply while it's active.
Dodge: Gain stability, and become invulnerable to dismounts. Two endurance bars.
Special: You can load supply pack into your dolyak, letting you deliver it wherever you want, just as a supply dolyak. The supply pack will be lost if you dismount.
Moa
Fast speed, low health.
Skill 1: Slash at a single target repeatedly. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
Skill 2: Applies reveal and marks nearby enemies on the world map. Consumes supply with every use.
Skill 3: Turn stealth on/off. Consumes supply while it's active.
Dodge: Greatly increases your movement speed, roller beetle levels. One endurance bar.
Special: Your mount detects WvW traps.
Additional notes:
You can only equip one mount at once. To swap mounts, you need to go back to the respawn.
Dismounts in combat put the mount on cooldown for 30 seconds.
Trap redesign, now they have 20 charges each, consuming 1 every time an enemy steps inside. New trap, dismounts enemy players. Siege Disablers affect traps now. New trick lets you destroy traps.
I think mounts have a lot of potential for WvW, but they must become a significant part of combat, or they will never become a real part of WvW.
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
psssttt
Check out the horse "Charge" skill in Black Desert Online... it would be cool if this skill could be "tiered" in success rate depending on say, warclaw mastery rank, so that at lower levels there's a greater likelihood of yourself being dismounted too, or even for the charge to dismount the other player even fails, and then at top mastery rank you have a greater success rate of both dismounting the other and remaining on your own mount.
Northerner @ Dragon Season Seafarer's Rest since launch!
A way to dismount already mounted players should also dismount you, it could be implemented such that it dismounts you and any mounts (upto 5) near the target in a certain AoE (360 / 480).
A dismount trap i think would be pointless unless it applied some sort of condition / put people in combat otherwise people just mount back up. But this has other issues where in theory one person could probably hold an entire zerg in combat (if that's the implmentation that's chosen) and it just feels like unnecessary.
Re: Breakbars to mounts, I don't think it's necessary since the mounts are too fast that most ranged stuns are unable to track the mount well not to mention the 3 evades puts them out of range. So I really don't see a point in adding this.
Mount related suggestion that's not in the list.
I would like if the movement speed was constant irrespective of territory as it becomes extremely annoying to chase down someone who is on their "home turf" because they are at a camp that they own and can get away from you while you are still mounted.
@martin.3692 said:
have you considered that wvw is just not the gamemode for you ?
Have you considered that it might not be financially viable to maintain a game mode for a fringe hardcore PvP community in a primarily casual PvE game, and furthermore, to also cater to a fringier "roaming" community? WvWers don't really bring money to GW2 outside of server transfers, and with Alliances, even that will likely be gone; all they do is eat out server resources daily, and then boast how they don't care about fashion, story, PvE and so on, and then their game mode is gradually dying in its own stasis field while the rest of the game evolves. Mount skins are at least some sort of profit from that section of players, and the more players are interested in these skins, the better - and to get them interested in a mount that's useless in PvE, they should find WvW enjoyable instead of frustrating, whether hardcore mode supporters like that or not. And that's also likely why WvW mounts were developed and released before Alliances.
if you feel like WvW has a hardcore community, then you really are new here. soon you will see WvW is as casual as open world pve.
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
If you guys thinking in a new skill, rather than adding the behaviour to skill 1, then should be a dismount with range, so you can actually dismount from lets say 1200 range, like a chain, its the only thing that i can think right now in order to not be forced to play longbow soulbeast.
This is the most important change imo, maybe i can get back into game with this change.
Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.
I think this is the wrong approach, and for two reasons:
As I've already stated, I think the dismount ability should dismount both players simultaneously. If the ability is done at range, then it gives immediate advantage to ranged classes vs melee, who might even get downed before they have an opportunity to close the gap. It also, again, opens up the possibility of people trolling, where high mobility classes will just dismount players and then rabbit off.
Designing the dismount ability around melee range means territory provides an advantage. A player mounted in friendly territory is better able to chase down and dismount an enemy player because their Warclaw moves faster, while at the same time has an easier time of evading / escaping an enemy player trying to do the same to them. This whole idea of "risk" I keep seeing kicked about is exactly this: you should be at "risk" when in enemy territory just as your enemy should be at "risk" while in yours.
Bonus Point:
3. One of the major complaints I've seen about the mount's immunity to CC is that enemy players can mount up and contest a ring while being effectively immortal if they are good with their dodges. This is a large reason why many are asking for the ability to dismount other players.
Simple fix then: remove the ability of a player to contest/capture a point while mounted.
@Lishtenbird.2814 said:
As a primarily PvE player who got back into WvW only because of Warclaw's speed and safety of traversal, I dislike the idea of a dismount skill. It will just bring back the ganking and have the trolls - oh, pardon me, "roamers" - rejoice, while encouraging the new WvW players to return back to their previous activities. Traps - I can understand; they require planning and cost time and supply, but not a ranged mount skill.
If it still happens, I would hope that other limitations are considered extra to "dismounts both players", such as:
being a fairly long channel that roots you in place (so that you can dismount someone who's trying to get into a tower by timing the skill, but not just gank anyone catching up to the zerg from afar),
requires supply so that it's not spammable without resupplying,
has a minimum number of players required to trigger - like, you can dismount a group of, say, 3 roamers in a terrifying AoE roar, but not a single scrub catching up to their tag,
or if that's a ranged attack like a thrown lance, that should at least be evadable,
knockdowns the player who used the dismount skill.
Otherwise the new mount's usefulness will be hampered even more - and it already feels anemic after the nerfs.
I don't know if you're trolling or not, but in case you aren't - have you considered that wvw is just not the gamemode for you ? Wvw for many people including myself is the only reason we play gw2 the last pve thing I've done was get to 450 weaponsmithing only to have a certain sigil on my weapons for wvw, I had not left the shiverpeaks for around 6 months now I only connect to either join wvw immediately or kill some ice wyrms while waiting in the queue.
WvW is not ment for people who want to get dank skins dyes or what ever it is you are trying to get by grinding camp guards, wvw is based around a concept of being a deadly battlefield in which the players who play in the most organised and strategic manner prevail - yes that includes "roaming" and "ganking" it's not supposed to be risk free to travel from point a to point b thus why so many oppose the mounts current state, as an un cc able armored race car with 3 evades which makes it impossible to roam or ambush anyone and that doesn't only hinder with small scale play it makes it absolutely impossible to intercept zergs, use mass stealth and combined with the glider makes it very easy to form an endless stream of reinforcement to objectives under attack causing the attacking side to be punished much less by poor organisation and tactics.
This gamemode is not about grinding up pieces of rocks safely so you could get your chest plate trimmed or god knows what it is you need safe passage for in wvw
I supposed players who likes PvP find it fun to gank players in wvw who are not good at pvp or who do not enjoy pvp and called that an essential part of wvw?
Why is running from point A to point B not supposed to be risk free? You are confusing PvP with WvW environment. And it's not totally risk free either, but at least we have a choice not to engage on a one to one fight. With all these nerfs coming to the Warclaw, yes i call it nerf, what good is the mount in the end? Gankers, not WvWer, are endlessly calling for nerfs, one after another, just because they missed their cheesy assault every time someone on a mount ran pass them on a mount?
At this rate we are going, we will be back to not being able to get to where we want without being knocked down for like a million times. Well, I agree that might as well go back to not having mount in WvW at all. Many Wvwers, old and new, who actually enjoyed Warclaw as it is now will eventually leave this game mode again because many are not veteran forum players < who come to the forum and cried for nerfs for everything when things are not going their ways.
The Warclaw is still very new in WvW, please give it some time and learn to accept, adapt and you will may change your perspectives eventually and find a way to satisfy that bully urge...
WvW is about believe or not player versus player tactical combat. your'e not good at pvp ? thats fine you will get better, you dont want to get ganked ? go with a group even a single buddy is sufficient. this game mode is about a BATTLE GROUND if you shamble aimlessly around the map and kill guards or whatever non-pvp activities you for some reason found reasonable to be doing on a BATTLEFIELD should always come with a risk of being apprehended after all you are on a BATTLEFIELD.
as some one who only plays wvw i can tell you that i get ganked a lot many times by groups of people, you know what i do ? i just deal with it and sometimes even get important insights. i dont understand what is it with you people thinking that wvw is about grinding items.
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.
What I like about the current mount, other than taking you back to action quickly, is the effect of standardizing a bit the ability to not engage or to disengage among all classes.
Giving players a way to easly dismount you from your mount will take that away.
Considering a non organized scenario, classes like thief or scrapper will still be able to avoid combat almost without any sacrifice, while some others will suffer more from this change.
In my opinion the current iteration of the Warclaw isn't affecting roaming in a bad way, but it's just mitigating not organized ganking, which has a good effect expecially for new players trying this game mode.
I guess you're already set on your decision, since you're already discussing the range of the new skill, but I'm giving you my feedback anyway.
I think WvW is more fun now (glitches apart), particularly for a more casual player.
What should be addressed (from my point of view) is the lack of access to the new mount for the new f2p players . We should let them taste it in some way, incentivizing PoF purchase.
edit:
I just read this suggestion and I find it fair:
Remove the ability of a player to contest/capture a point while mounted.
I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.
@Mil.3562 said:
I supposed players who likes PvP find it fun to gank players in wvw who are not good at pvp or who do not enjoy pvp and called that an essential part of wvw?
Why is running from point A to point B not supposed to be risk free? You are confusing PvP with WvW environment. And it's not totally risk free either, but at least we have a choice not to engage on a one to one fight. With all these nerfs coming to the Warclaw, yes i call it nerf, what good is the mount in the end? Gankers, not WvWer, are endlessly calling for nerfs, one after another, just because they missed their cheesy assault every time someone on a mount ran pass them on a mount?
At this rate we are going, we will be back to not being able to get to where we want without being knocked down for like a million times. Well, I agree that might as well go back to not having mount in WvW at all. Many Wvwers, old and new, who actually enjoyed Warclaw as it is now will eventually leave this game mode again because many are not veteran forum players < who come to the forum and cried for nerfs for everything when things are not going their ways.
The Warclaw is still very new in WvW, please give it some time and learn to accept, adapt and you will may change your perspectives eventually and find a way to satisfy that bully urge...
WvW is a team-based open PvP environment. The only "risk-free" place, by design, is your spawn point. Everything else is open game. So, no matter if it's 1 player, a small group, or a whole zerg who kills you, it's not cheesy or bullying. Your death in this game mode is beneficial to someone else, through score or defending or capping. If you are caught out of position, you are likely to die. Either accept the death, try to run, WP, or alt+f4 if you don't wish to fight back. Roaming/small-scale are both legitimate, useful and necessary playstyles in WvW, whether you like it or not. And if your goal in WvW is to k-train and avoid any form of non-PvE combat, I'm sorry, but you are indeed playing the wrong game mode and I'd suggest trying to revive EotM for the kind of experience you wish for.
The mount is still immensely helpful for moving across the map and between objectives, allowing for quicker response to call-outs and quicker resupplies for sieging objectives, among other uses. In addition, it also has three consecutive evades and an ability that finishes downed players. It's the antithesis of "useless".
Currently, dismounting people requires you to blow important cooldowns just to be able to fight someone on equal terms (chasing it down/getting through its health bar to dismount). If you come across someone who is mounted, and you dismount first, you're at a disadvantage. It allows people who do not build for mobility to outpace those that do.
The people who are pointing this out aren't "gankers". In fact, a lot of them are veterans who have thousands of hours worth of playtime and experience in WvW and can spot issues like these in an instant. While not everyone will be in favour of the mount's existence, that fact is unlikely to change, so getting to the stage of balance is the only option available to us. Personally, I can see why, because in its current state, I am still unconvinced that it is in the spirit of WvW.
yourself, but the thing is: you will be dealing with it in maps that are getting emptier and emptier because the amount of "true" WvWers is limited, and parts of those get bored and leave, while newer players are shooed away since they're told and shown that they're playing the mode "wrong", wanting mounts or what not.
I must say that your plentiful messages are quite in line with that "veteran" protective, pro-roaming narrative, and are also an indication of why I started hating that game mode several years ago, but you kept playing it.
@Mil.3562 said:
Many Wvwers, old and new, who actually enjoyed Warclaw as it is now will eventually leave this game mode again because many are not veteran forum players
Pretty much. I haven't stepped into WvW for 2 or 3 years (except for that one time when I was forced to grind a Gift of Battle track instead of just buying it with badges), and I already regret not getting the mount before the first wave of nerfs. Mobility and movement is all to me in this game, and the slugfest that is WvW to me otherwise doesn't entice me at all.
A breakbar on a mount that has 10k health in WvW is a waste of time. A dismount skill could make some casual WvW players stop playing if they are continuously dismounted while trying to get from point A to point B. IMO, the #1 way to fix the main problems with mounts in WvW is to stop them from being able to stealth (fix the other bugs with mounts of course, but bugged stealth'd mounts are really screwing up good fights).
Lag issue. From bugs to support, wvw to in game tickets several players gave been asking you to fix this. Yet not even a single answer given to them (us).
Can someone from anet please address this issue? At least give us an answer. I was really shocked when I saw this topic. Are you guys trying to cpver up the lag issue while working on it or are you not even aware or do not care about it?
yourself, but the thing is: you will be dealing with it in maps that are getting emptier and emptier because the amount of "true" WvWers is limited, and parts of those get bored and leave, while newer players are shooed away since they're told and shown that they're playing the mode "wrong", wanting mounts or what not.
I must say that your plentiful messages are quite in line with that "veteran" protective, pro-roaming narrative, and are also an indication of why I started hating that game mode several years ago, but you kept playing it.
@Mil.3562 said:
Many Wvwers, old and new, who actually enjoyed Warclaw as it is now will eventually leave this game mode again because many are not veteran forum players
Pretty much. I haven't stepped into WvW for 2 or 3 years (except for that one time when I was forced to grind a Gift of Battle track instead of just buying it with badges), and I already regret not getting the mount before the first wave of nerfs. Mobility and movement is all to me in this game, and the slugfest that is WvW to me otherwise doesn't entice me at all.
you have not stepped into wvw in 3 years and yet you speak as if you have a firm grasp of the situation in the gamemode, the warclaw was added 2 weeks ago, gankers were always playing and i never had any issues with them, as somebody who alternates between roaming running with a group or even tagging up from time to time i can tell you that the community is fine, its not dying and the servers are the furthest thing away from being empty in fact in the evening they reach over 50 player queues per battleground.
its ok to not like wvw just as it is to not like playing albion or eve online, there is a beauty about this game mode that not everybody gets in fact the only reason i bought guild wars 2 was because i saw a commander laying siege to a tower. a player who is not excited about large scale strategic group play just wont get wvw, riding an oversized cat might be enough to keep him around for a while but he will ultimately leave, (notice how people are complaining about dismount traps without realising that there is currently a ballista skill that can dismount up to 5 targets) they did not even bother to check, why ? because they don't have that spark for the game mode.
the warclaw will obviously stay and wont be removed from the game but the criticism of its flawed implementation is justified and will lead to changes.
what i still don't get is why are you spending all of this time on a forum for a game mode you despise and never play trying to prove to the community that the warclaw is a perfectly balanced and needed addition to the game.
We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
For clarification: it sounds like this is for all (non-chair) mounts in PvE as well? No more dismount climbing over tricky terrain?
No, this is just for the WvW mount. PvE mounts won't be affected.
Dang, was hoping (As it essentially gives POF owners a "Super Jump" that others doesn't have access to).
+1 to dismount attack dismount both and put in combat.
Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”
Dismount attack should dismount both players or it would lead to frustration and further trolling.
Breakbar sounds good, Warclaw absolutely needs a nerf as it is far too easy to surpass defences and choke holds of few people. Only some classes are able to snipe down a single mounted player but trying to say hold chokes vs multiple reinforcements just jumping past you cannot be done atm.
Also person who let's themself get unmounted should get punished little bit harder. It is too simple just instantly stunbreak the dismount. Even half a second of unbreakable would be huge.
@Lonami.2987 posted a cool, idea, +1, i'm all for a mount that can swim. Dolyak sound very helpful, but I think too much mounts isn't healthy for WvW. You can try to change my mind. The only pro of warclaw is currently that you can now move around without being killed at the spawn by stealthy thief or mesmer.
(Btw fixing that invincibility/ infinite stealth would have been a better solution, can't understand we still have scourge blobs, seriously, nerf red aoe of death)
I definitely think that, more stronger racial siege weapons are a better solution than adding more mounts. It kinda destroy the soul of WvW... But more importantly, we need more maps!!! With all the current events, we could have a map melting with some fractals... very confusing with several environments like the chaos fractal.
@Jayden Reese.9542 said:
No need for a forced dismount esp a ranged one. If it's 1200 and not like 300/600 then it will be way too much of an advantage for range. Breakbar won't work as if they can't do enough damage because of the evades how they going to land enough cc. Don't add a forced in combat or cd on remount. All these things do is cater to the same 3 classes basically that were in here upset about the mount. Thief/Mez/ranger. They want to pull players off their mounts while at the same time not really worried about getting dismounted themselves because they can run away if they chose or are losing like we've watched 1000 times for all these years.
** I don't get why you need to kill/chase down every single player** and get upset so much if someone gets away. I pull players off the mount all the time. Fix the issues that the mount causes by fixing the map like make the capture circles smaller at camps to prevent that troll on mount contesting I see melee players complaining about. Removing the jump on dismount as you say is good as of course players abused to bypass walls/gates. Focus on that not listening to the smallest amount of your players base the gankers that think wvw is meant to completely ignore all objectives and was meant for 1 vs 1 s only while of course they play the classes that have access to stealth.
Because if an enemy roamer/defender let's that 1 guy run past, he could be flipping an upgraded camp or tag a keep to stall waypoint or kill dollys. Problem with your zergling people is that you only do 1 thing and that's... zerg. Believe it or not it's roamers and defenders that will break or make upgraded keeps because we both fight and defended the camps and or do the same to dollys. Its very easy for you to say that all we do is gank but if that means making your zerg smaller so ours can win then so be it.
And no, I am pretty sure people are more afraid of stuff like holos/revs/warriors than thievs, even deadeye isn't all that great but only vs nom experienced people.
So everyone without mount will be left in the mud against anyone with a mount? Why not implement something that everyone will benefit from?
If you implement something broken and must-have then you dont balance it by forcing others to have it too, but you nerf it down to the ground so anyone without it will be able to deal with. smh
I used to think a trap for dismounting would be a good idea, but after reading all the comments I can imagine zergs running around in wvw and getting dismounted every 5 seconds because trolls decided to set up dismount traps everywhere....imagine trying to run along the outside of SM and being dismounted every so often....
I mean...I would probably drop dismount traps all the time in the way of the zerg just to be annoying.
I think breakbars are a better idea. Or a throwable trap (like a disabler).
Traps that can be set on the ground and I can leave there sound more problematic.
No no no....you all have it all wrong! What we REALLY need is a gliding mount with a stealth attack!!! Oh, and a full water borderland! There, Ama has fixed all problems. You're welcome.
@martin.3692 said:
have you considered that wvw is just not the gamemode for you ?
Have you considered that it might not be financially viable to maintain a game mode for a fringe hardcore PvP community in a primarily casual PvE game, and furthermore, to also cater to a fringier "roaming" community? WvWers don't really bring money to GW2 outside of server transfers, and with Alliances, even that will likely be gone; all they do is eat out server resources daily, and then boast how they don't care about fashion, story, PvE and so on, and then their game mode is gradually dying in its own stasis field while the rest of the game evolves. Mount skins are at least some sort of profit from that section of players, and the more players are interested in these skins, the better - and to get them interested in a mount that's useless in PvE, they should find WvW enjoyable instead of frustrating, whether hardcore mode supporters like that or not. And that's also likely why WvW mounts were developed and released before Alliances.
"i am a pver, pamper me! "
What kind of mentality is that? If anything, YOU should adapt to a competitive gamemode. Seriously, apart from the minority of people who have social anxiety, why is is such a kitten issue if your virtual character gets ganked and dies? It is a natural part of wvw...
I have a better idea: make "pvers" immune to damage (permanent determined buff). Problems solved.
@Beanna.6712 said:
I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.
I agree a dismount trap is mostly pointless. I also believe the breakbar is mostly a waste as well. Lets say it takes two or three hard CC shots to hit the breakbar. How many builds have a hard cc that can fire 2-3 hard CC shots in a second or two against a target moving much faster than them? It will still be easier to DPS the mount than land multiple hard CC shots on a mount.
Both these changes are essentially wasted developer effort. Any hard CC should dismount a player. No fancy UI development and doesn't unbalance the mount since hard CC had the same impact before mounts.
@Cronos.6532 said:
Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?
Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.
My suggestion: Special action key appears when you are near someone who is mounted. If you successfully use the skill (while mounted or on foot), both you the user and the rider are dismounted and put in combat.
@Cronos.6532 said:
Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?
Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.
Could be a tactic too, like enemy mounts not allowed when you pull it.
I would also like to point out that PvE enemies have really good dismount skills, specially in PoF where the forged throw some bolas skill and instantly dismount players. You could add those to sentries and most npc guards too.
I think you should add a skill that will not allow you to be unmounted for a few seconds. If you run after it can happen otherwise, that one of the first best roamer is farmed.
@Gao.1573 said:
I think you should add a skill that will not allow you to be unmounted for a few seconds. If you run after it can happen otherwise, that one of the first best roamer is farmed.
It’s called : Dodge. And you have three. No more are needed.
@liurencija.2684 said:
Making mounts cc'able would honestly be a very welcomed change in wvw, considering how currently it's possible to dodge all the initial spike from enemy groups without any tactical efforts and just one push them with full cd's.
Also, could you change the leap on spacebar to a separate (dodge key) keybind instead? Some people would like to have a possibility to jump around while running mounted.
There's already an option to do just that, disable conditional mount movement I think it's called in the option menu. Let's you jump when you hit jump instead of either jumping or mount dodging depending on movement.
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.
Short-term
We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.
Medium to Long-term
Working on a dismount trap
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
Even Longer term
We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.
Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.
And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.
I just had an image of two players being pulled off their mounts and colliding into each other, causing them both to be knocked down. Perfect.
@Ahratan.1098 said:
I don’t like the sound of the dismount trap or skill. The mount finally gave us a way to avoid pesky, cancer-spec gankers (perma stealthers and one shotters), and this change would undo it. Ofc gankers will just lay traps all over an area and wait for victims to troll - probably great fun for them, but super tedious for others.
One bug that actually needs fixing is stealth not being instantly removed when mounting.
I'll be honest I dont get this response.
It is an open world PvP zone. Engaging in PvP is the point, roamers, gankers, havoc groups all play their part, stopping those running back to the zerg is a valid tactic. Wait and group up with others before running back.
Sure it is frustrating to be ganked by the cheese builds when you have limited or no option to counter play, but the answer to that is asking ANet to actually balance the classes that are all cheese currently. Not make it so you cant be engage in actual PvP. That loses the sense of danger and risk around the corner to cater to carebears who only want to follow the zerg and arent really looking to PvP or improve themselves.
Be careful what you chose to do with the mounts Ben. The forum is like a lobbying stage for various groups of players. Gankers and those playing cheese builds that 1 round players are lobbying very hard for multiple ways to dismount players. For the most part mounts as mobility enhancement to get to fights and join up with your groups/zergs is a good thing. It has given us more actions, less downtime.
You need to first and foremost fix any bugs and glitches associated with mounts. Players with triple dodges, warping on the mounts, etc.. are bad and need fixed asap. You should also consider revealing players when mounting, much like when you glide. This will scale back the impact of invis blob of fast moving, triple dodging mounts having an impact on fights. Things that negatively affect fights should be fixed.
I recommend giving mount skill 1 the ability to dismount players and take away stomping. Again, things that negatively affect fights should be discouraged. Allowing mount vs mount is a good thing, giving mounts the ability to dismount makes more sense than dismount traps. Think about who would want dismount traps, and how quickly it would make new players run away from WvW if the one thing that could get them back to their groups is nerfed to uselessness.
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
No need for a "new" skill, just use the chain-skill to fire a chain on a mounted player. If you activate pull chain once, you pull the player off the mount and dismount yourself too if successfull. Also put the other player and yourself infight - so none of them can mount again until getting OOC. Ez fix.
@PaladinVII.1647 said:
My suggestion: Special action key appears when you are near someone who is mounted. If you successfully use the skill (while mounted or on foot), both you the user and the rider are dismounted and put in combat.
At least some of that code is already there, if you've ever tried to do the roaming Hydra boss in Crystal Desert.
WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.
I am coming at this from a havoc/roamer/scout perspective. Right now we have some pretty good balance between small group and zerg. Please consider this if the dismount is to be a ranged attack, wouldn't look at range being more than it is now with the #1 skill or keep close in sync. Would not like zerg play to get extra benefit from it. Also when we are talking about dismounting both that's if the attacker lands, a dodged dismount should dismount the attacker but leave the evaded player mounted, if they dodged.
Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/Civ6/CU/AoC/NW
@Hadi.6025 said:
Reduce the mount health from 10k to 5000-4000
Mount hp is 12,096.
mine is 10.8k?
Full masteries?
Mount HP is affected by HP-increasing runes. I don't know if that's intended, bugged, or an oversight.
Even if that was intended, which I hope isn't, it should be changed so it no longer happens.
At most only only the guild objective aura and effects from other player's skills should affect the Warclaw.
Never food, enhancements or player gear.
I took a semi-quick look through the thread just now. Along with my occasional looks through the forum and our subreddit, there's a question that hasn't been asked, or answered, that I'm itching to see a Dev response on. And I just can't find one.
Has anyone passed around the idea of making Warclaw a Raptor side-grade in Open World content?
I play a fair bit of WvW myself. I have since launch. The work towards Warclaw wasn't too bad, and it changed how WvW works in a few ways that some may like and some dislike, but that's not really in the scope of this thread. Nonetheless, it's good to see it's still being tweaked.
But Open World? I haven't seen anything on it. There, the mount is dreadfully slow, its movement ability is basically a dud and is barely able to cross a gap the player can. It also has no benefits from the WvW Warclaw Trait line, gaining neither extra speed nor its reduced movement ability stamina consumption. Its Dismount skill seems to be average from everything I can tell.
I understand it wasn't really built with Open World in mind. That was said from the start, so no surprises there. It would still be nice if it had the same movement skill distance as a Raptor, and increased that distance when Raptor Mastery 3 is learned, just to keep it from being able to get around those "gates" that it's needed to circumvent. Increased movement speed would also be nice, but one thing at a time.
Now seemed like a good time to ask about it, and I want to see what people think. Personally, it seems like a harmless change, and now that the bulk of PvE players have gotten it, it's very unlikely to cause a spike in Queues. So I can't see much reason to keep its Open World state as it is other than "just because."
My vote is for adding a dismount aspect to the kitty's battle maul. Landing that against a mounted enemy should be more rewarding than it currently is.
@Kayobi.5608 said:
I took a semi-quick look through the thread just now. Along with my occasional looks through the forum and our subreddit, there's a question that hasn't been asked, or answered, that I'm itching to see a Dev response on. And I just can't find one.
Has anyone passed around the idea of making Warclaw a Raptor side-grade in Open World content?
I play a fair bit of WvW myself. I have since launch. The work towards Warclaw wasn't too bad, and it changed how WvW works in a few ways that some may like and some dislike, but that's not really in the scope of this thread. Nonetheless, it's good to see it's still being tweaked.
But Open World? I haven't seen anything on it. There, the mount is dreadfully slow, its movement ability is basically a dud and is barely able to cross a gap the player can. It also has no benefits from the WvW Warclaw Trait line, gaining neither extra speed nor its reduced movement ability stamina consumption. Its Dismount skill seems to be average from everything I can tell.
I understand it wasn't really built with Open World in mind. That was said from the start, so no surprises there. It would still be nice if it had the same movement skill distance as a Raptor, and increased that distance when Raptor Mastery 3 is learned, just to keep it from being able to get around those "gates" that it's needed to circumvent. Increased movement speed would also be nice, but one thing at a time.
Now seemed like a good time to ask about it, and I want to see what people think. Personally, it seems like a harmless change, and now that the bulk of PvE players have gotten it, it's very unlikely to cause a spike in Queues. So I can't see much reason to keep its Open World state as it is other than "just because."
I think there's really no point in spending development time on replicating Raptor for Open World PvE. It would take away the uniqueness of Raptor.
@Cronos.6532 said:
Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?
Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.
Item that lets you trigger special button skill with cooldown and stacks like the branded blood spears would do the trick.
More clutter added to mounts, instead of focusing on stuff that is really needed.
Oh well good luck maybe someone in here will come up with something original to implement on them.
Sanji
Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW
Anet dragon has finally defeated the
**WvW WarBorn **
He's over 7000!
Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging
@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.
Short-term
We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.
Medium to Long-term
Working on a dismount trap
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
Even Longer term
We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.
Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.
Nerfing mount movement is a short-term solution, but you will have to handle those terrain problems sooner or later, since multiple professions have been able to abuse them across the years (and some still do).
And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.
Anyway, I posted this at reddit a few days ago. It's a warclaw redesign (now called panther) plus two additional mount ideas. Might serve as an inspiration for where to go next:
Panther
Medium speed, medium health.
Skill 1: Leap at enemies. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
Skill 2: Grappling Hook, pulls enemies on foot. Can be used to dismount enemy players, but you get dismounted as well. Telegraphed, and can be dodged. Consumes supply with every use.
Skill 3: Turn Disabling Hook on/off. Disables siege weapons, but locks you to them, forcing you to stick nearby. Dismounting or moving too far disables the hook. Consumes supply while it's active.
Dodge: Leap forward. Three endurance bars.
Special: Your mount can swim.
Dolyak
Slow speed, high health.
Skill 1: Charge forward moving the horns, launching enemies in your path. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
Skill 2: Headbutt a nearby gate. Consumes supply with every use.
Skill 3: Turn Shield Bubble on/off. Can be used while moving. Consumes supply while it's active.
Dodge: Gain stability, and become invulnerable to dismounts. Two endurance bars.
Special: You can load supply pack into your dolyak, letting you deliver it wherever you want, just as a supply dolyak. The supply pack will be lost if you dismount.
Moa
Fast speed, low health.
Skill 1: Slash at a single target repeatedly. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
Skill 2: Applies reveal and marks nearby enemies on the world map. Consumes supply with every use.
Skill 3: Turn stealth on/off. Consumes supply while it's active.
Dodge: Greatly increases your movement speed, roller beetle levels. One endurance bar.
Special: Your mount detects WvW traps.
Additional notes:
You can only equip one mount at once. To swap mounts, you need to go back to the respawn.
Dismounts in combat put the mount on cooldown for 30 seconds.
Trap redesign, now they have 20 charges each, consuming 1 every time an enemy steps inside. New trap, dismounts enemy players. Siege Disablers affect traps now. New trick lets you destroy traps.
I think mounts have a lot of potential for WvW, but they must become a significant part of combat, or they will never become a real part of WvW.
I like your idea for mount diversity but think they're too op for WvW. Mounts are just speed boost not an actual aspect to the experience. Kinda like gliding.. Its there but not needed. Plus you need POF expansion for mounts and Gw2 never really been a P2W kind of game. If anything they should allow you to trait mounts instead of having complete mastery. Like allowing your mount to run faster in ENEMY territory but at a sacrifice of health. Allowing different mount builds would be cool. So one mount is fast but only 2 dodges. Another has 3 dodges but is slow with low health and the last one more beefy with health but 1 dodge and medium speed.
Not the Leader of " I will make you [QQ] ", just some how a mascot who everyone loves to hate.
The 12000 health is due to runes like Durability runes not a mastery. They need to fix that as well. As well as mounts not having AEGIS from guards or anything that gives aegis. Mounts should be immune to boons and stealth.
Not the Leader of " I will make you [QQ] ", just some how a mascot who everyone loves to hate.
@Beanna.6712 said:
I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.
An no one would have touched it with a bargepole. Prime target or easy kill, more accurately...a sittin' duck.
here we go again with adding siege item instead of fixing the problem. remember ghost thieves? stealth trap didnt fix anything and neither will the dismount trap
here we go again with adding siege item instead of fixing the problem. remember ghost thieves? stealth trap didnt fix anything and neither will the dismount trap
Its called clutter in my books.
Sanji
Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW
Anet dragon has finally defeated the
**WvW WarBorn **
He's over 7000!
Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging
Personally can't say I like the proposed changes, besides the bug fix of course.
The little hop on the mount was a fun little mechanic to use for shortcuts past open world terrain in the various maps and to give you that tiny little extra lift before you started gliding in areas you control. While not particularly difficult, it made for a new layer of skilled play you could learn to use within the mode and get better at. I do not like that people have been abusing it as an exploit to bypass walls, but I find it a bit sad that it is going to go away entirely. I also believe the Armistice Bastion jumping puzzle requires it certain places? Maybe I just found a different way of doing it with the mount hop though. Are you allowing it in the Bastion at least? In PvE for those that wants to bring it there? Not a fan of the removal over fixing the few places where it can be exploited. It's not that many that I can think of and I've only found and reported a single one (that I never shared or took advantage of I might add). I believe the same exploits are doable by, e.g., Engineers using their utility skills anyways, so fixing them is still of interest, right?
Dismount trap I am somewhat okay with. A bit annoying perhaps to be randomly dismounted in the middle of nowhere because people have littered the ground with dismount traps everywhere even though they're not there themselves. And I am sure people will do that out of spite to discourage mount usage too. Not really a fan of the idea considering the latter. Definitely not a fan of the idea that you can use a mount skill to dismount other players, especially at range. As others have mentioned, without an ICD to mounting back up again, certain classes will have a super easy time and advantage by being able to Blink, Shadowstep, Stealth or otherwise travel large distances in a seconds time to mount back up again — compared to the rest who doesn't have this luxury. To be completely honest, these classes will have a large advantage regardless, if you were to add an easy-to-dismount feature, which is why I dislike the idea even more.
The mounts has made the mode more "fair" when it comes to the ability to run back to your group, choosing your fights etc. — before, certain classes had a far easier time doing so than others, and with the mount, everyone now has an even playing field when it comes to things like that. It has made movement speed far less important outside of combat too, which is a good thing as not every build and class has equal opportunities to produce it. I have also only perhaps experienced three or four times, that our group were unable to dismount a player on a mount if we really wanted to dismount them, 10k HP is not that much to dish out and condition damage ticks on the mount HP as well. I am perhaps a bit biased on the latter as I am a Renegade-Revenant who can burst out large Torment numbers in a very short time, but perhaps incorporate one into your roaming group if you want to have an easier time dismounting enemies? Anyways, if they got away.. so what? They didn't want to fight, it was one target, their experience in the mode were better for it, while I can find someone else to fight. I am perfectly fine with that if it means the mode retains more and more players. All I've seen are smaller scale roamers complaining that they can't prey on players that don't want to fight them, or are actually unfit to fight them because they run a team-oriented build and not a build suited for dueling. What's the fun in fighting people who can't put up a fight?
Why are you considering this dismounting business again? To appease the roamers who wants to have easy kills and doesn't want to adapt? They can build siege at strategic points to get people off mounts fast if they want, a ballista or two (if not solo) really does wonders. Maybe those so against the mount should try it sometime. You can also set up Ranger/Guardian traps in the same area to get someone off their mount. Mix in a Torment bomb in your roaming group. Adapt?
A break-bar sounds fine, though I don't see the purpose when the roughly 10k HP is basically doing the same thing, but with damage over needing to dish out CC to break the bar, which is again advantageous to certain builds/classes. I prefer the HP "break-bar" over that.
Comments
Nerfing mount movement is a short-term solution, but you will have to handle those terrain problems sooner or later, since multiple professions have been able to abuse them across the years (and some still do).
And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.
Anyway, I posted this at reddit a few days ago. It's a warclaw redesign (now called panther) plus two additional mount ideas. Might serve as an inspiration for where to go next:
Panther
Dolyak
Moa
Additional notes:
I think mounts have a lot of potential for WvW, but they must become a significant part of combat, or they will never become a real part of WvW.
PROFESSION REDESIGN SERIES ⇒ Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior
NEW WEAPON TYPES: Knuckles, Polearms, Spears, Relics, and more
FORGOTTEN PVP MAPS: The PvP Game Browser and Team Deathmatch need a bit of love
Mount HP is affected by HP-increasing runes. I don't know if that's intended, bugged, or an oversight.
Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.
psssttt
Check out the horse "Charge" skill in Black Desert Online... it would be cool if this skill could be "tiered" in success rate depending on say, warclaw mastery rank, so that at lower levels there's a greater likelihood of yourself being dismounted too, or even for the charge to dismount the other player even fails, and then at top mastery rank you have a greater success rate of both dismounting the other and remaining on your own mount.
Northerner @ Dragon Season
Seafarer's Rest since launch!
A way to dismount already mounted players should also dismount you, it could be implemented such that it dismounts you and any mounts (upto 5) near the target in a certain AoE (360 / 480).
A dismount trap i think would be pointless unless it applied some sort of condition / put people in combat otherwise people just mount back up. But this has other issues where in theory one person could probably hold an entire zerg in combat (if that's the implmentation that's chosen) and it just feels like unnecessary.
Re: Breakbars to mounts, I don't think it's necessary since the mounts are too fast that most ranged stuns are unable to track the mount well not to mention the 3 evades puts them out of range. So I really don't see a point in adding this.
Mount related suggestion that's not in the list.
I would like if the movement speed was constant irrespective of territory as it becomes extremely annoying to chase down someone who is on their "home turf" because they are at a camp that they own and can get away from you while you are still mounted.
if you feel like WvW has a hardcore community, then you really are new here. soon you will see WvW is as casual as open world pve.
Hey Hey Spotlight here please :<
Probly a bit off topic.
Will there ever be a chance to get emotes work with Mounts? Especially the /Sit emote?......
A reply would really be appreciated : >
Been waiting for this feature since POF release :<
I think this is the wrong approach, and for two reasons:
As I've already stated, I think the dismount ability should dismount both players simultaneously. If the ability is done at range, then it gives immediate advantage to ranged classes vs melee, who might even get downed before they have an opportunity to close the gap. It also, again, opens up the possibility of people trolling, where high mobility classes will just dismount players and then rabbit off.
Designing the dismount ability around melee range means territory provides an advantage. A player mounted in friendly territory is better able to chase down and dismount an enemy player because their Warclaw moves faster, while at the same time has an easier time of evading / escaping an enemy player trying to do the same to them. This whole idea of "risk" I keep seeing kicked about is exactly this: you should be at "risk" when in enemy territory just as your enemy should be at "risk" while in yours.
Bonus Point:
3. One of the major complaints I've seen about the mount's immunity to CC is that enemy players can mount up and contest a ring while being effectively immortal if they are good with their dodges. This is a large reason why many are asking for the ability to dismount other players.
Simple fix then: remove the ability of a player to contest/capture a point while mounted.
WvW is about believe or not player versus player tactical combat. your'e not good at pvp ? thats fine you will get better, you dont want to get ganked ? go with a group even a single buddy is sufficient. this game mode is about a BATTLE GROUND if you shamble aimlessly around the map and kill guards or whatever non-pvp activities you for some reason found reasonable to be doing on a BATTLEFIELD should always come with a risk of being apprehended after all you are on a BATTLEFIELD.
as some one who only plays wvw i can tell you that i get ganked a lot many times by groups of people, you know what i do ? i just deal with it and sometimes even get important insights. i dont understand what is it with you people thinking that wvw is about grinding items.
Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.
Ranged attack is the current plan. Exact range tbd.
What I like about the current mount, other than taking you back to action quickly, is the effect of standardizing a bit the ability to not engage or to disengage among all classes.
Giving players a way to easly dismount you from your mount will take that away.
Considering a non organized scenario, classes like thief or scrapper will still be able to avoid combat almost without any sacrifice, while some others will suffer more from this change.
In my opinion the current iteration of the Warclaw isn't affecting roaming in a bad way, but it's just mitigating not organized ganking, which has a good effect expecially for new players trying this game mode.
I guess you're already set on your decision, since you're already discussing the range of the new skill, but I'm giving you my feedback anyway.
I think WvW is more fun now (glitches apart), particularly for a more casual player.
What should be addressed (from my point of view) is the lack of access to the new mount for the new f2p players . We should let them taste it in some way, incentivizing PoF purchase.
edit:
I just read this suggestion and I find it fair:
Remove the ability of a player to contest/capture a point while mounted.
I would prefer if they don't waste any time on another trap and work on the breakbar idea right away because this is the best way to make players skills interact against mounts and prevent said mounts to triple dodge/leap over millions of CC unscathed. This mount should have been affected by CC from the get go, this is a big oversight.
WvW is a team-based open PvP environment. The only "risk-free" place, by design, is your spawn point. Everything else is open game. So, no matter if it's 1 player, a small group, or a whole zerg who kills you, it's not cheesy or bullying. Your death in this game mode is beneficial to someone else, through score or defending or capping. If you are caught out of position, you are likely to die. Either accept the death, try to run, WP, or alt+f4 if you don't wish to fight back. Roaming/small-scale are both legitimate, useful and necessary playstyles in WvW, whether you like it or not. And if your goal in WvW is to k-train and avoid any form of non-PvE combat, I'm sorry, but you are indeed playing the wrong game mode and I'd suggest trying to revive EotM for the kind of experience you wish for.
The mount is still immensely helpful for moving across the map and between objectives, allowing for quicker response to call-outs and quicker resupplies for sieging objectives, among other uses. In addition, it also has three consecutive evades and an ability that finishes downed players. It's the antithesis of "useless".
Currently, dismounting people requires you to blow important cooldowns just to be able to fight someone on equal terms (chasing it down/getting through its health bar to dismount). If you come across someone who is mounted, and you dismount first, you're at a disadvantage. It allows people who do not build for mobility to outpace those that do.
The people who are pointing this out aren't "gankers". In fact, a lot of them are veterans who have thousands of hours worth of playtime and experience in WvW and can spot issues like these in an instant. While not everyone will be in favour of the mount's existence, that fact is unlikely to change, so getting to the stage of balance is the only option available to us. Personally, I can see why, because in its current state, I am still unconvinced that it is in the spirit of WvW.
I like how you deacronymed PvP but kept WvW acronymed, because otherwise it makes way less sense.
So, yeah. With more and more power coming back to gankers, you are, of course, free to
yourself, but the thing is: you will be dealing with it in maps that are getting emptier and emptier because the amount of "true" WvWers is limited, and parts of those get bored and leave, while newer players are shooed away since they're told and shown that they're playing the mode "wrong", wanting mounts or what not.
I must say that your plentiful messages are quite in line with that "veteran" protective, pro-roaming narrative, and are also an indication of why I started hating that game mode several years ago, but you kept playing it.
Pretty much. I haven't stepped into WvW for 2 or 3 years (except for that one time when I was forced to grind a Gift of Battle track instead of just buying it with badges), and I already regret not getting the mount before the first wave of nerfs. Mobility and movement is all to me in this game, and the slugfest that is WvW to me otherwise doesn't entice me at all.
A breakbar on a mount that has 10k health in WvW is a waste of time. A dismount skill could make some casual WvW players stop playing if they are continuously dismounted while trying to get from point A to point B. IMO, the #1 way to fix the main problems with mounts in WvW is to stop them from being able to stealth (fix the other bugs with mounts of course, but bugged stealth'd mounts are really screwing up good fights).
Lag issue. From bugs to support, wvw to in game tickets several players gave been asking you to fix this. Yet not even a single answer given to them (us).
Can someone from anet please address this issue? At least give us an answer. I was really shocked when I saw this topic. Are you guys trying to cpver up the lag issue while working on it or are you not even aware or do not care about it?
you have not stepped into wvw in 3 years and yet you speak as if you have a firm grasp of the situation in the gamemode, the warclaw was added 2 weeks ago, gankers were always playing and i never had any issues with them, as somebody who alternates between roaming running with a group or even tagging up from time to time i can tell you that the community is fine, its not dying and the servers are the furthest thing away from being empty in fact in the evening they reach over 50 player queues per battleground.
its ok to not like wvw just as it is to not like playing albion or eve online, there is a beauty about this game mode that not everybody gets in fact the only reason i bought guild wars 2 was because i saw a commander laying siege to a tower. a player who is not excited about large scale strategic group play just wont get wvw, riding an oversized cat might be enough to keep him around for a while but he will ultimately leave, (notice how people are complaining about dismount traps without realising that there is currently a ballista skill that can dismount up to 5 targets) they did not even bother to check, why ? because they don't have that spark for the game mode.
the warclaw will obviously stay and wont be removed from the game but the criticism of its flawed implementation is justified and will lead to changes.
what i still don't get is why are you spending all of this time on a forum for a game mode you despise and never play trying to prove to the community that the warclaw is a perfectly balanced and needed addition to the game.
Remove stealth on mounts and fix server lag caused by mounts. Please make that priority 1.
Dang, was hoping
(As it essentially gives POF owners a "Super Jump" that others doesn't have access to).
+1 to dismount attack dismount both and put in combat.
Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”
Dismount attack should dismount both players or it would lead to frustration and further trolling.
Breakbar sounds good, Warclaw absolutely needs a nerf as it is far too easy to surpass defences and choke holds of few people. Only some classes are able to snipe down a single mounted player but trying to say hold chokes vs multiple reinforcements just jumping past you cannot be done atm.
Also person who let's themself get unmounted should get punished little bit harder. It is too simple just instantly stunbreak the dismount. Even half a second of unbreakable would be huge.
@Lonami.2987 posted a cool, idea, +1, i'm all for a mount that can swim. Dolyak sound very helpful, but I think too much mounts isn't healthy for WvW. You can try to change my mind. The only pro of warclaw is currently that you can now move around without being killed at the spawn by stealthy thief or mesmer.
(Btw fixing that invincibility/ infinite stealth would have been a better solution, can't understand we still have scourge blobs, seriously, nerf red aoe of death)
I definitely think that, more stronger racial siege weapons are a better solution than adding more mounts. It kinda destroy the soul of WvW... But more importantly, we need more maps!!! With all the current events, we could have a map melting with some fractals... very confusing with several environments like the chaos fractal.
Shiny links, take a look!
->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
->Project: ASURAN EXPANSION available on WIKI.
->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
->NEW Asurapedia
Because if an enemy roamer/defender let's that 1 guy run past, he could be flipping an upgraded camp or tag a keep to stall waypoint or kill dollys. Problem with your zergling people is that you only do 1 thing and that's... zerg. Believe it or not it's roamers and defenders that will break or make upgraded keeps because we both fight and defended the camps and or do the same to dollys. Its very easy for you to say that all we do is gank but if that means making your zerg smaller so ours can win then so be it.
And no, I am pretty sure people are more afraid of stuff like holos/revs/warriors than thievs, even deadeye isn't all that great but only vs nom experienced people.
So everyone without mount will be left in the mud against anyone with a mount? Why not implement something that everyone will benefit from?
If you implement something broken and must-have then you dont balance it by forcing others to have it too, but you nerf it down to the ground so anyone without it will be able to deal with. smh
I used to think a trap for dismounting would be a good idea, but after reading all the comments I can imagine zergs running around in wvw and getting dismounted every 5 seconds because trolls decided to set up dismount traps everywhere....imagine trying to run along the outside of SM and being dismounted every so often....
I mean...I would probably drop dismount traps all the time in the way of the zerg just to be annoying.
I think breakbars are a better idea. Or a throwable trap (like a disabler).
Traps that can be set on the ground and I can leave there sound more problematic.
No no no....you all have it all wrong! What we REALLY need is a gliding mount with a stealth attack!!! Oh, and a full water borderland! There, Ama has fixed all problems. You're welcome.
"i am a pver, pamper me! "
What kind of mentality is that? If anything, YOU should adapt to a competitive gamemode. Seriously, apart from the minority of people who have social anxiety, why is is such a kitten issue if your virtual character gets ganked and dies? It is a natural part of wvw...
I have a better idea: make "pvers" immune to damage (permanent determined buff). Problems solved.
I agree a dismount trap is mostly pointless. I also believe the breakbar is mostly a waste as well. Lets say it takes two or three hard CC shots to hit the breakbar. How many builds have a hard cc that can fire 2-3 hard CC shots in a second or two against a target moving much faster than them? It will still be easier to DPS the mount than land multiple hard CC shots on a mount.
Both these changes are essentially wasted developer effort. Any hard CC should dismount a player. No fancy UI development and doesn't unbalance the mount since hard CC had the same impact before mounts.
Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
We already have Righteous Indignation, fits perfectly.
My suggestion: Special action key appears when you are near someone who is mounted. If you successfully use the skill (while mounted or on foot), both you the user and the rider are dismounted and put in combat.
Could be a tactic too, like enemy mounts not allowed when you pull it.
I would also like to point out that PvE enemies have really good dismount skills, specially in PoF where the forged throw some bolas skill and instantly dismount players. You could add those to sentries and most npc guards too.
I think you should add a skill that will not allow you to be unmounted for a few seconds. If you run after it can happen otherwise, that one of the first best roamer is farmed.
It’s called : Dodge. And you have three. No more are needed.
Thank You for the {MEME}
Seconding this. Remove the stealth.
There's already an option to do just that, disable conditional mount movement I think it's called in the option menu. Let's you jump when you hit jump instead of either jumping or mount dodging depending on movement.
I just had an image of two players being pulled off their mounts and colliding into each other, causing them both to be knocked down. Perfect.
My latest threads:
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79102/black-lion-salvage-kit-problem-with-salvage-all-options
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74107/wvw-participation-from-repeatable-achievements
I'll be honest I dont get this response.
It is an open world PvP zone. Engaging in PvP is the point, roamers, gankers, havoc groups all play their part, stopping those running back to the zerg is a valid tactic. Wait and group up with others before running back.
Sure it is frustrating to be ganked by the cheese builds when you have limited or no option to counter play, but the answer to that is asking ANet to actually balance the classes that are all cheese currently. Not make it so you cant be engage in actual PvP. That loses the sense of danger and risk around the corner to cater to carebears who only want to follow the zerg and arent really looking to PvP or improve themselves.
Be careful what you chose to do with the mounts Ben. The forum is like a lobbying stage for various groups of players. Gankers and those playing cheese builds that 1 round players are lobbying very hard for multiple ways to dismount players. For the most part mounts as mobility enhancement to get to fights and join up with your groups/zergs is a good thing. It has given us more actions, less downtime.
You need to first and foremost fix any bugs and glitches associated with mounts. Players with triple dodges, warping on the mounts, etc.. are bad and need fixed asap. You should also consider revealing players when mounting, much like when you glide. This will scale back the impact of invis blob of fast moving, triple dodging mounts having an impact on fights. Things that negatively affect fights should be fixed.
I recommend giving mount skill 1 the ability to dismount players and take away stomping. Again, things that negatively affect fights should be discouraged. Allowing mount vs mount is a good thing, giving mounts the ability to dismount makes more sense than dismount traps. Think about who would want dismount traps, and how quickly it would make new players run away from WvW if the one thing that could get them back to their groups is nerfed to uselessness.
No need for a "new" skill, just use the chain-skill to fire a chain on a mounted player. If you activate pull chain once, you pull the player off the mount and dismount yourself too if successfull. Also put the other player and yourself infight - so none of them can mount again until getting OOC. Ez fix.
Looking for some salt.
At least some of that code is already there, if you've ever tried to do the roaming Hydra boss in Crystal Desert.
WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.
I am coming at this from a havoc/roamer/scout perspective. Right now we have some pretty good balance between small group and zerg. Please consider this if the dismount is to be a ranged attack, wouldn't look at range being more than it is now with the #1 skill or keep close in sync. Would not like zerg play to get extra benefit from it. Also when we are talking about dismounting both that's if the attacker lands, a dodged dismount should dismount the attacker but leave the evaded player mounted, if they dodged.
Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/Civ6/CU/AoC/NW
Even if that was intended, which I hope isn't, it should be changed so it no longer happens.
At most only only the guild objective aura and effects from other player's skills should affect the Warclaw.
Never food, enhancements or player gear.
☆ SUGGEST-A-TRON
I took a semi-quick look through the thread just now. Along with my occasional looks through the forum and our subreddit, there's a question that hasn't been asked, or answered, that I'm itching to see a Dev response on. And I just can't find one.
Has anyone passed around the idea of making Warclaw a Raptor side-grade in Open World content?
I play a fair bit of WvW myself. I have since launch. The work towards Warclaw wasn't too bad, and it changed how WvW works in a few ways that some may like and some dislike, but that's not really in the scope of this thread. Nonetheless, it's good to see it's still being tweaked.
But Open World? I haven't seen anything on it. There, the mount is dreadfully slow, its movement ability is basically a dud and is barely able to cross a gap the player can. It also has no benefits from the WvW Warclaw Trait line, gaining neither extra speed nor its reduced movement ability stamina consumption. Its Dismount skill seems to be average from everything I can tell.
I understand it wasn't really built with Open World in mind. That was said from the start, so no surprises there. It would still be nice if it had the same movement skill distance as a Raptor, and increased that distance when Raptor Mastery 3 is learned, just to keep it from being able to get around those "gates" that it's needed to circumvent. Increased movement speed would also be nice, but one thing at a time.
Now seemed like a good time to ask about it, and I want to see what people think. Personally, it seems like a harmless change, and now that the bulk of PvE players have gotten it, it's very unlikely to cause a spike in Queues. So I can't see much reason to keep its Open World state as it is other than "just because."
My vote is for adding a dismount aspect to the kitty's battle maul. Landing that against a mounted enemy should be more rewarding than it currently is.
I think there's really no point in spending development time on replicating Raptor for Open World PvE. It would take away the uniqueness of Raptor.
Item that lets you trigger special button skill with cooldown and stacks like the branded blood spears would do the trick.
More clutter added to mounts, instead of focusing on stuff that is really needed.
Oh well good luck maybe someone in here will come up with something original to implement on them.
Sanji
Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW
Anet dragon has finally defeated the
**WvW WarBorn **
He's over 7000!
Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging
I like your idea for mount diversity but think they're too op for WvW. Mounts are just speed boost not an actual aspect to the experience. Kinda like gliding.. Its there but not needed. Plus you need POF expansion for mounts and Gw2 never really been a P2W kind of game. If anything they should allow you to trait mounts instead of having complete mastery. Like allowing your mount to run faster in ENEMY territory but at a sacrifice of health. Allowing different mount builds would be cool. So one mount is fast but only 2 dodges. Another has 3 dodges but is slow with low health and the last one more beefy with health but 1 dodge and medium speed.
Not the Leader of " I will make you [QQ] ", just some how a mascot who everyone loves to hate.
The 12000 health is due to runes like Durability runes not a mastery. They need to fix that as well. As well as mounts not having AEGIS from guards or anything that gives aegis. Mounts should be immune to boons and stealth.
Not the Leader of " I will make you [QQ] ", just some how a mascot who everyone loves to hate.
An no one would have touched it with a bargepole. Prime target or easy kill, more accurately...a sittin' duck.
here we go again with adding siege item instead of fixing the problem. remember ghost thieves? stealth trap didnt fix anything and neither will the dismount trap
Its called clutter in my books.
Sanji
Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW
Anet dragon has finally defeated the
**WvW WarBorn **
He's over 7000!
Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging
Personally can't say I like the proposed changes, besides the bug fix of course.
The little hop on the mount was a fun little mechanic to use for shortcuts past open world terrain in the various maps and to give you that tiny little extra lift before you started gliding in areas you control. While not particularly difficult, it made for a new layer of skilled play you could learn to use within the mode and get better at. I do not like that people have been abusing it as an exploit to bypass walls, but I find it a bit sad that it is going to go away entirely. I also believe the Armistice Bastion jumping puzzle requires it certain places? Maybe I just found a different way of doing it with the mount hop though. Are you allowing it in the Bastion at least? In PvE for those that wants to bring it there? Not a fan of the removal over fixing the few places where it can be exploited. It's not that many that I can think of and I've only found and reported a single one (that I never shared or took advantage of I might add). I believe the same exploits are doable by, e.g., Engineers using their utility skills anyways, so fixing them is still of interest, right?
Dismount trap I am somewhat okay with. A bit annoying perhaps to be randomly dismounted in the middle of nowhere because people have littered the ground with dismount traps everywhere even though they're not there themselves. And I am sure people will do that out of spite to discourage mount usage too. Not really a fan of the idea considering the latter. Definitely not a fan of the idea that you can use a mount skill to dismount other players, especially at range. As others have mentioned, without an ICD to mounting back up again, certain classes will have a super easy time and advantage by being able to Blink, Shadowstep, Stealth or otherwise travel large distances in a seconds time to mount back up again — compared to the rest who doesn't have this luxury. To be completely honest, these classes will have a large advantage regardless, if you were to add an easy-to-dismount feature, which is why I dislike the idea even more.
The mounts has made the mode more "fair" when it comes to the ability to run back to your group, choosing your fights etc. — before, certain classes had a far easier time doing so than others, and with the mount, everyone now has an even playing field when it comes to things like that. It has made movement speed far less important outside of combat too, which is a good thing as not every build and class has equal opportunities to produce it. I have also only perhaps experienced three or four times, that our group were unable to dismount a player on a mount if we really wanted to dismount them, 10k HP is not that much to dish out and condition damage ticks on the mount HP as well. I am perhaps a bit biased on the latter as I am a Renegade-Revenant who can burst out large Torment numbers in a very short time, but perhaps incorporate one into your roaming group if you want to have an easier time dismounting enemies? Anyways, if they got away.. so what? They didn't want to fight, it was one target, their experience in the mode were better for it, while I can find someone else to fight. I am perfectly fine with that if it means the mode retains more and more players. All I've seen are smaller scale roamers complaining that they can't prey on players that don't want to fight them, or are actually unfit to fight them because they run a team-oriented build and not a build suited for dueling. What's the fun in fighting people who can't put up a fight?
Why are you considering this dismounting business again? To appease the roamers who wants to have easy kills and doesn't want to adapt? They can build siege at strategic points to get people off mounts fast if they want, a ballista or two (if not solo) really does wonders. Maybe those so against the mount should try it sometime. You can also set up Ranger/Guardian traps in the same area to get someone off their mount. Mix in a Torment bomb in your roaming group. Adapt?
A break-bar sounds fine, though I don't see the purpose when the roughly 10k HP is basically doing the same thing, but with damage over needing to dish out CC to break the bar, which is again advantageous to certain builds/classes. I prefer the HP "break-bar" over that.
Seafarer's Rest | Enryon | Mistwarden [Hero]