Guardian in PvP/WvW

[adramhel.1493]

Hi,What do you think about guardian in pvp/wvw ? Is it just me or guardian seems weak compared to other classes ? I have spent many hours trying guardian, dh and firebrand , but none of them seem decent (except bunker FB, I mean damage dealer variant of guardian).I have tried warrior (with 0 experience) and I was able to deal more damage with it . What do you think ?Thanks

[crazyhusky.2985]

@"Shouryu.4169" said:Hi,What do you think about guardian in pvp/wvw ? Is it just me or guardian seems weak compared to other classes ? I have spent many hours trying guardian, dh and firebrand , but none of them seem decent (except bunker FB, I mean damage dealer variant of guardian).I have tried warrior (with 0 experience) and I was able to deal more damage with it . What do you think ?Thanks

It's not just you, I use guardian all the time, and I feel SUPER underpowered when going up against everyone.

PVP wise Guardian is in a bad place.

WvW wise - Firebrand is the only form of guardian that is meta and tends to play more of a supportive role.

Dragonhunter seems to be is a no go in either mode. Dragonhunter needs serious updating, its been over 2 years since any decent changes have happened.It's become a very predictable and easy to counter. I just hope it gets the love scrapper got recently. The longbow and DH traits need some serious updating or reworking. Especially for the traits a few are either completely useless or in the case of the main build for kinda counter each other. Arena Net need to completely overhaul Dragonhunter, the only useable place for DH is in raids, but how long is that going to last. Due to it's one of the weakest power specs right now.

[Yannir.4132]

Core Guardian is still fine in PvP. Compared to before it's more squishy but the damage is still there if you build for it.There's a huge number of things that could be improved though. Virtue of Resolve is still basically stuck to 2012 strength levels. Who knows, maybe improving the passive might make Battle Presence less useless.Dragonhunter hasn't had any major changes since they removed the trap daze. Which was obnoxious and deserved to go but they never did refund that performance loss. Anything since then has been a sidegrade at best.

[adramhel.1493]

@"Yannir.4132" said:Core Guardian is still fine in PvP. Compared to before it's more squishy but the damage is still there if you build for it.There's a huge number of things that could be improved though. Virtue of Resolve is still basically stuck to 2012 strength levels. Who knows, maybe improving the passive might make Battle Presence less useless.Dragonhunter hasn't had any major changes since they removed the trap daze. Which was obnoxious and deserved to go but they never did refund that performance loss. Anything since then has been a sidegrade at best.

can you share your build ? Are you able to win duel against warrior or any close combat range class ?i would like to create a detailed discussion about guardian performance in pvp/wvw (not the usual thread "guardian sucks, please buff the class"). I'm completely in love with guardian, it's my main class but i think some mechanics are outdated compared to other classes. the proof is that using warrior/spellbreaker (with near to 0 experience as warrior) i was able to kill ANY guardian/firebrand(no bunker)/dh in pvp.

the main guardian cons in my opinion are :

• low hp pool : imho should be medium tier)
• low hp regeneration : passive effect of F2 is really thrash, guardians should have healing signet similiar to warrior in order to compensate low hp pool.
• meditate skill: many guardians/dh relies on "meditate" skills to recover hp/cure conditions, but the gameplay becomes boring (weapon skills + healing skill + 3 utility healing skill + elite)
• greatsword : whirling wrath (GS2) is really good but hard to land, a skilled player is able to avoid it. I'm able to use it often on Firebrand (quickness!) or using Judge's Intervention. Binding Blade (GS5) before GS2 is really predictable against good player. Improve the speed animation by 20% ? Comparing to warrior greatsword skills: every skill is really easy to land, GS5 is a great gap closer (or disengage), GS4 is ranged, GS3 has no starting animation(=easy to land), GS2 is situational (with quickness after a stun)
• hammer: imho the weapon is too slow, i have used it very little compared to other weapons
• mace : this should be reworked. Mace3 is the only nice skill. imho underrated by many players, mace can be used with thorch effectively
• scepter: good in pve, in pvp/wvw nice for team fight, not so good for roaming
• sword : sword3 is cool but really hard to land. watching many guardians on youtube, 80% of time sword3 lands only 1/2 hits

what do you think ?

[Yannir.4132]

@"Shouryu.4169" said:

can you share your build ? Are you able to win duel against warrior or any close combat range class ?

It's the standard Radiant GS build you find from Metabattle but sure.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR8dnkIClDhVDBeDB8DhjBiyGAVbbmPwFsBvXbDUBA-jZxHQB9b/hrVGAAPBgvdBAG4BBAAWarrior? Not really. But it's not supposed to. It's not a duelist build. It's more a +1 build/teamfighter.

• meditate skill: many guardians/dh relies on "meditate" skills to recover hp/cure conditions, but the gameplay becomes boring (weapon skills + healing skill + 3 utility healing skill + elite)

There's 3 reasons why Guardians always consider Meditations. A. They are not situational. They're always useful. If you have Contemplation of Purity on your bar, even if the opposing team has 0 condi classes, you can still use it as a stunbreak/recover health/gain Fury. B. When traited, they are the best coherent skill group in the game. C. The other skills look weak in comparison.

• greatsword : whirling wrath (GS2) is really good but hard to land, a skilled player is able to avoid it. I'm able to use it often on Firebrand (quickness!) or using Judge's Intervention. Binding Blade (GS5) before GS2 is really predictable against good player. Improve the speed animation by 20% ? Comparing to warrior greatsword skills: every skill is really easy to land, GS5 is a great gap closer (or disengage), GS4 is ranged, GS3 has no starting animation(=easy to land), GS2 is situational (with quickness after a stun)

That's just your opinion though. I value Guardians GS skills higher than Warriors. Whirling Wrath is much easier to land than Hundred Blades because of its more forgiving range, and the fact that you can move during it.

• hammer: imho the weapon is too slow, i have used it very little compared to other weapons

Hammer was commonly used before the last patch. Hammer 3 needs a change, Ring of Warding should be smoother. Auto attacks need a slight damage buff and so does Hammer 2.

• mace : this should be reworked. Mace3 is the only nice skill. imho underrated by many players, mace can be used with thorch effectively

Mace is good for support builds, so I don't think so. The third auto and Mace 2 should be a bit smoother to use though.

• sword : sword3 is cool but really hard to land. watching many guardians on youtube, 80% of time sword3 lands only 1/2 hits

It would be kinda OP with homing missiles on it though.

[Zephoid.4263]

Having been running core guard in high plat teirs for at least half a dozen seasons, It is not in a good spot in PVP.

The 25% crit removal from RI effectively killed it in PVP as you no longer have the damage to keep you on par with most of the other strong power dps classes. Unlike other modes, you can't resort to anything to bump yourself back up to crit cap. I was taking marauders before, so i have nowhere to go to get more crit without being a glass cannon that dies to every other glass cannon.

Previously a guard would beat a Spellbreaker given equal skill on both. Now its not even a competition.

Previously a holosmith would beat a guard, but the fight was close enough that you could win. Now you both swing for a bit, you go through your rotation but don't do enough damage to counteract their much higher hp pool and built in cc.

You NEEDED 100% crit to hope to beat a mirage. You needed to wait for the 2-3 distort/evade windows to go down then GS4->gs2 and hope they don't blink out fast enough. Now its really difficult to kill them in those small evade windows. Meanwhile, they a power mirage can still 20k <.5s from stealth if you aren't instantly on the ball with an evade. While being touted as a 'counter' to mirage due to the quantity of AoE and quick condi clear, i found most mirage were holding the cards and you had to hope they messed up to beat them on a constant basis. Mirage got to chose the engagement scenarios, rarely the other way around.

[kasoki.5180]

Guardian is in a good place. Its decent profession, not OP, but also not broken or underpowered.

If you are struggling maybe try to read some manuals online or watch some players on youtube. I know that always helps me when I'm learning a new profession in the game. From the complains you have listed, it seems you are miss timing some skills

[otto.5684]

@"Shouryu.4169" said:Hi,What do you think about guardian in pvp/wvw ? Is it just me or guardian seems weak compared to other classes ? I have spent many hours trying guardian, dh and firebrand , but none of them seem decent (except bunker FB, I mean damage dealer variant of guardian).I have tried warrior (with 0 experience) and I was able to deal more damage with it . What do you think ?Thanks

It depends on what you are looking for. If you enjoy FB support, it is top tier in every PvP venue. If you do not want support, your options are core dps or DH.

Guardian dps builds are... acceptable, if you know what you are doing. If you are looking to be in the top 100 rank or for AT, dps builds are not competitive. If you are looking for casual play, guardian dps builds are okay.

Honestly, if you like warrior in PvP, and you do not want to play support, do not waste your time with guardian dps builds. Warrior is much better.

[alain.1659]

Well as the topic is not that active, can I ask for a good wvw build for core guard or DH for roaming? I have been using the same build meditation- virtues-dh standart medi trapper for so long that I cannot let any of the talents go. Yet I start to feel underwhelmed (and bored a little bit). Anyone has any build suggestions for power DH/guard?

[Aeolus.3615]

I actually returned to vanila sword shield guardian ._. it actually feels nice... liek some said.. not OP like some classes but felt quite balanced.

P.S im even playing with SW sword that thing is like a trap spam at range xD, lots of vuln and some fire.

[Anela.3867]

Never mind....I figured it out. /blush

[alain.1659]

@Aeolus.3615 said:I actually returned to vanila sword shield guardian ._. it actually feels nice... liek some said.. not OP like some classes but felt quite balanced.

P.S im even playing with SW sword that thing is like a trap spam at range xD, lots of vuln and some fire.

I cannot give up my DH. I guess I am stuck with it :) Tried vanilla though, and it is, as you said, surprisingly good :) Thanks for your answer.

[Fantasylife.7981]

I feel weak when I play guardian

[Klipso.8653]

If you can get close to a WvW build then its decent in sPvP, but again- you'll be support.
Your basically throwing resistance, aegis, reflects, cleanses, and heals so your allies can go all out.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

How is Guardian, DH and Firebrand for roaming in WvW nowadays?I've been seen all 3 versions of roamers a lot more.Has the trueshot range buff made DH more competitive?

[Vashuddha.1538]

I've been playing Guardian for some time now, and I can honestly say that Guardians are considerably underpowered compared to other classes in WvW, especially. It's ridiculous. In PvP you can optimise your guard to a point where you can do substantial damage, but in exchange you need to sacrifice a lot of the survivability aspects, such as healing, stun break, etc. Guardians are also very burst depended, and with a build like that cool downs are your worse enemy.

The problem with guardians (in my opinion) is essentially the lack of diversity. In order to really sustain and achieve an acceptable amount of damage, sustain and survivability, you're limited to few certain builds. Like, I love to use GS and Hammer, or GS and FB, SW and Shield, etc, but in WvW for example, you lose a lot of that freedom to tweek your guardian to what you want it to be. Guardians to me are very "meh". I have not a snowball chance in hell against Mesmers, or range depended classes, a lot of it has to do with their ridiculous one shot spells and burst damage, but also due to the fact that guardians lack certain mobility, and when out of range the only option you have is either to use a bunch of cooldowns to outheal, block, etc, and do your best to get as close as you can, and if not, you're f*****. I really regret spending time on my guardian, tbh. Anet needs to do something here.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:How is Guardian, DH and Firebrand for roaming in WvW nowadays?I've been seen all 3 versions of roamers a lot more.Has the trueshot range buff made DH more competitive?

[alain.1659]

Guardians are block dependent (or they were at least) with the increase of unblockables and heavy bursts (guard has low hp) guardian now cannot balance between dmg and defense. FB is really good as a support but other two are really meh. They did not see any proper improvements and left behind the current balance long ago. You can still make it work but you need to be extra careful.

[RisenHowl.2419]

You can definitely play firebrand as a damage/support, just takes a mindset change from minstrels